WEBVTT

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My journey away from violent extremism
began 22 years ago,

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when I denounced racism

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and left the American white
supremacist skinhead movement

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that I had helped build.

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(Cheers and applause)

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I was just 22 years old at the time,

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but I had already spent eight years,
from the time I was 14 years old,

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as one of the earliest
and youngest members

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and an eventual leader within
America's most violent hate movement.

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But I wasn't born into hate;

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in fact, it was quite the opposite.

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I had a relatively normal childhood.

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My parents are Italian immigrants

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who came to the United States
in the mid-1960s

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and settled on the South Side of Chicago,

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where they eventually met,

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and opened a small beauty shop.

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Right after I was born,
things got a little bit more difficult.

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They struggled to survive with raising
a young family and a new business,

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often working seven days a week,

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14 hours a day,

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taking on second and third jobs
just to earn a meager living.

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And quality time with my parents
was pretty nonexistent.

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Even though I knew
they loved me very much,

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growing up, I felt abandoned.

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I was lonely and I started to withdraw,

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and then I started to resent my parents
and become very angry.

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And as I was growing up,
through my teenage years,

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I started to act out to try and get
attention from my parents.

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And one day, when I was 14,

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I was standing in an alley,
and I was smoking a joint,

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and a man who was twice my age,
with a shaved head and tall black boots,

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came up to me,

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and he snatched the joint from my lips.

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Then he put his hand on my shoulder
and he looked me in the eyes,

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and he said,

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"That's what the communists
and the Jews want you to do

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to keep you docile."

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I was 14 years old,

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I'd been trading baseball cards
and watching "Happy Days" --

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I didn't really know what a Jew was.

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(Laughter)

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It's true.

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And the only communist that I knew
was the bad Russian guy

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in my favorite Rocky movie.

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(Laughter)

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And since I'm here
baring my soul with you,

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I can reveal that I did not even know
what the word "docile" meant.

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(Laughter)

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Dead serious.

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But it was as if this man in this alley
had offered me a lifeline.

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For 14 years, I'd felt
marginalized and bullied.

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I had low self-esteem.

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And frankly, I didn't know
who I was, where I belonged,

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or what my purpose was.

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I was lost.

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And overnight, because this man
had pulled me in,

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and I had grabbed onto that lifeline
with every fiber of my being.

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I had gone from "Joanie Loves Chachi"

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to full-blown Nazi.

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Overnight.

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I started to listen to the rhetoric

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and believe it.

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I started to watch very closely
as the leaders of this organization

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would target vulnerable young people
who felt marginalized

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and then draw them in
with promises of paradise

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that were broken.

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And then I started to recruit myself.

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I started to do that by making
white-power music.

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And soon, I became the leader
of that infamous organization

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that was led by that man in that alley

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who recruited me that day,

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who was America's first neo-Nazi skinhead
and who had radicalized me.

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For the next eight years,

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I believed the lies that I had been fed.

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And though I saw
no evidence of it whatsoever,

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I didn't hesitate to blame
every Jewish person in the world

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for what I thought was a white,
European genocide

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being promoted by them
through a multiculturalist agenda.

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I blamed people of color

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for the crime and violence
and the drugs in the city,

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completely neglecting the fact
that I was committing acts of violence

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on a daily basis,

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and that in many cases,

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it was white supremacists
who were funneling drugs

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into the inner cities.

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And I blamed immigrants

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for taking jobs from white Americans,

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completely neglecting the fact that
my parents were hardworking immigrants

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who struggled to survive,

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despite not getting help
from anybody else.

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For the next eight years,

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I saw friends die,

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I saw others go to prison
and inflict untold pain

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on countless victims
and their families' lives,

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I heard horrific stories
from young women in the movement,

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who'd been brutally raped by the very men
they were conditioned to trust,

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and I myself committed acts
of violence against people,

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solely for the color of their skin,

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who they loved,

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or the god that they prayed to.

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I stockpiled weapons for what I thought
was an upcoming race war.

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I went to six high schools;

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I was kicked out of four of them,

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one of them, twice.

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And 25 years ago, I wrote
and performed racist music

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that found its way
to the internet decades later

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and partially inspired
a young white nationalist

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to walk into a sacred Charleston,
South Carolina, church

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and senselessly massacre
nine innocent people.

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But then my life changed.

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At 19 years old, I met a girl
who was not in the movement,

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who didn't have a racist bone in her body,

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and I fell in love with her.

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And at 19, we got married,

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and we had our first son.

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And when I held my son in my arms
in the delivery room that day,

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not only did I reconnect
with some of the innocence that I had lost

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at 14 years old,

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but it also began to challenge

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the very important things that drew
me to the movement to begin with:

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identity, community and purpose --

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things that I had been
struggling with as a young boy.

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And now, I struggled with the concept
of who I was again.

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Was I this neo-Nazi hatemonger,

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or was I a caring father and husband?

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Was my community the one
that I had manufactured around me

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to boost my own ego,

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because I felt self-hatred for myself
and I wanted to project it onto others,

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or was it the one
that I had physically given life to?

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Was my purpose to scorch the earth

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or was it to make it
a better place for my family?

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And suddenly, like a ton of bricks hit me,

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I became very confused with
who I'd been for the last eight years.

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And if only I'd been brave enough
to walk away at that moment,

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to understand what the struggle was
that was happening inside of me,

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then maybe tragedy
could have been averted.

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Instead, I did compromise.

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I took myself off the streets
for the benefit of my family,

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because I was nervous that maybe
I could go to jail or end up dead,

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and they would have to fend
for themselves.

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So I stepped back as a leader,

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and instead I opened a record store

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that I was going to sell
white-power music in, of course,

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because I was importing it in from Europe.

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But I knew that if I was just
a racist store selling racist music,

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the community would not
allow me to be there.

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So I decided I was going to also
stock the shelves with other music,

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like punk rock and heavy metal

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and hip-hop.

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And while the white-power music
that I was selling

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was 75 percent of my gross revenue,

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because people were driving in
from all over the country to buy it

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from the only store that was selling it,

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I also had customers come in
to buy the other music.

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And eventually, they started
to talk to me.

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One day, a young black teen came in,

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and he was visibly upset.

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And I decided to ask him what was wrong.

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And he told me that his mother
had been diagnosed with breast cancer.

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And suddenly, this young black teenager,

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who I'd never had a meaningful
conversation or interaction with,

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I was able to connect with,

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because my own mother
had been diagnosed with breast cancer,

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and I could feel his pain.

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On another occasion, a gay couple
came in with their son,

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and it was undeniable to me
that they loved their son

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in the same profound ways
that I loved mine.

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And suddenly, I couldn't rationalize
or justify the prejudice

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that I had in my head.

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I decided to pull the white-power
music from the inventory

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when I became too embarrassed
to sell it in front of my new friends.

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And of course, the store
couldn't sustain itself,

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so I had to close it.

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At that same time, I lost
nearly everything in my life.

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I used it as an opportunity to walk away

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from the movement that
I'd been a part of for eight years,

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the only identity, community and purpose
that I'd really known for most of my life.

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So I had nobody.

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I lost my livelihood
because I closed the store.

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I didn't have a great relationship
with my parents, even though they tried.

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And my wife and children left me,

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because I hadn't left the movement
and disengaged quickly enough.

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And suddenly,

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I didn't know who I was again,

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or where I fit in

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or what my purpose was supposed to be.

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I was miserable inside,

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and I often woke up in the morning

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wishing that I hadn't.

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About five years in,

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one of the few friends that I had
was concerned about my well-being,

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and she came to me and she said,

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"You need to do something,
because I don't want to see you die."

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And she suggested that I go
apply for a job where she worked,

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at a company called IBM.

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Yeah, I thought she was crazy, too.

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(Laughter)

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Here I was, a closeted ex-Nazi
covered in hate tattoos.

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I didn't go to college.

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I'd been kicked out of multiple
high schools multiple times.

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I didn't even own a computer.

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But I went in,

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and somehow, miraculously, I got the job.

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I was thrilled.

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And then I became terrified to learn

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that they'd actually be putting me
back at my old high school,

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the same one I got kicked out of twice,

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to install their computers.

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This was a high school
where I had committed acts of violence

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against students, against faculty;

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where I had protested out in front
of the school for equal rights for whites,

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and even had a sit-in in the cafeteria

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to try and demand a white student union.

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And of course, as karma would have it,

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within the first couple of hours,

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who walks right by me
but Mr. Johnny Holmes,

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the tough black security guard
I had gotten in a fistfight with,

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that got me kicked out the second time

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and led out in handcuffs from the school.

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He didn't recognize me,

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but I saw him,

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and I didn't know what to do.

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I was frozen; I was this grown man now,
years out of the movement,

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and I was sweating and I was trembling.

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But I decided I had to do something.

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And I decided I needed to suffer
under the weight of my past,

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because for five years
I had tried to outrun it.

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I'd tried to make new friends
and cover my tattoos with long sleeves,

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and I wouldn't admit it,

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because I was afraid of being judged

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the same way I had judged other people.

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Well, I decided I was going to chase
Mr. Holmes out to the parking lot --

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probably not the smartest
decision that I made.

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(Laughter)

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But when I found him,
he was getting into his car,

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and I tapped him on the shoulder.

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And when he turned around
and he recognized me,

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he took a step back because he was afraid.

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And I didn't know what to say.

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Finally, the words came out of my mouth,
and all I could think to say was,

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"I'm sorry."

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And he embraced me,

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and he forgave me.

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And he encouraged me to forgive myself.

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He recognized that it wasn't the story
of some broken go-nowhere kid

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who was going to just
join a gang and go to prison.

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He knew that this was the story
of every young person who was vulnerable,

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who was searching for identity,
community and purpose,

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and then hit a wall

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and was unable to find it

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and went down a dark path.

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And he made me promise one thing,

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that I would tell my story
to whoever would listen.

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That was 18 years ago,

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and I've been doing it ever since.

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(Applause)

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You might be asking yourself right now:

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How does a good kid from
a hardworking immigrant family

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end up going down such a dark path?

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One word: potholes.

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That's right. Potholes.

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I had a lot of potholes when I was kid.

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We all had them --

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you know, the things in life that we hit,

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that invariably just kind of
nudge us off our path,

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and if they remain unresolved

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or untreated

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or not dealt with,

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sometimes we can get dangerously lost
down pretty dark corridors.

00:15:12.228 --> 00:15:14.411
Potholes can be things like trauma,

00:15:14.435 --> 00:15:16.852
abuse, unemployment,

00:15:17.667 --> 00:15:18.826
neglect,

00:15:19.652 --> 00:15:21.844
untreated mental health conditions,

00:15:21.868 --> 00:15:23.059
even privilege.

00:15:23.942 --> 00:15:27.090
And if we hit enough potholes
on our journey in life,

00:15:27.696 --> 00:15:31.436
and we don't have the resources
or the help to navigate around them

00:15:31.460 --> 00:15:32.677
or to pull us out,

00:15:34.184 --> 00:15:37.357
well, sometimes good people
end up doing bad things.

NOTE Paragraph

00:15:40.026 --> 00:15:43.165
One such person
who had potholes is Darrell.

00:15:43.189 --> 00:15:44.980
Darrell is from upstate New York.

00:15:45.495 --> 00:15:47.620
He had read my memoir,

00:15:47.644 --> 00:15:50.341
and he was really upset about the ending.

00:15:50.365 --> 00:15:52.271
You see, I'd gotten out of the movement,

00:15:52.295 --> 00:15:53.725
and he was still in.

00:15:53.749 --> 00:15:57.456
And he emailed me and he said,

00:15:57.480 --> 00:15:59.818
"I didn't really like the way
that turned out."

00:15:59.842 --> 00:16:01.556
And I said, "Well, I'm sorry."

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00:16:01.580 --> 00:16:03.209
(Laughter)

NOTE Paragraph

00:16:03.233 --> 00:16:06.224
"But if you want to talk about it,
we could certainly do that."

NOTE Paragraph

00:16:06.248 --> 00:16:09.466
And after a couple of weeks
of going back and forth with Darrell,

00:16:09.490 --> 00:16:14.570
I learned he was a 31-year-old
military veteran who had been injured

00:16:14.594 --> 00:16:18.333
and was really angry about
not being able to go to Afghanistan

00:16:18.357 --> 00:16:19.658
to kill Muslims.

00:16:20.741 --> 00:16:22.066
And one day on the phone,

00:16:22.090 --> 00:16:26.279
he told me that he had seen
a Muslim man in the park praying,

00:16:26.303 --> 00:16:30.190
and that all he wanted to do
was kick him in the face.

00:16:31.377 --> 00:16:33.126
I flew to Buffalo the next day,

00:16:33.968 --> 00:16:35.642
and I sat down with Darrell,

00:16:36.515 --> 00:16:37.707
and I asked him,

00:16:38.343 --> 00:16:41.548
"Have you ever met
a Muslim person before?"

00:16:42.168 --> 00:16:43.714
And he said, "No!

00:16:43.738 --> 00:16:45.569
Why the hell would I want to do that?

00:16:45.593 --> 00:16:48.142
They're evil. I don't want
anything to do with them."

00:16:49.067 --> 00:16:50.497
I said, "OK."

00:16:50.521 --> 00:16:52.943
So I excused myself
and I went into the bathroom

00:16:52.967 --> 00:16:55.201
and I took my phone out in the bathroom,

00:16:55.225 --> 00:16:57.118
and I Googled the local mosque,

00:16:57.977 --> 00:17:00.264
and I called them very quietly
from the bathroom,

00:17:00.288 --> 00:17:04.246
and I said, "Excuse me,
Imam, I need a favor.

00:17:04.270 --> 00:17:05.421
I have a Christian man

00:17:05.445 --> 00:17:08.251
who would really love to learn more
about your religion."

NOTE Paragraph

00:17:08.275 --> 00:17:10.960
(Laughter)

NOTE Paragraph

00:17:10.984 --> 00:17:12.722
"Do you mind if we stop by?"

NOTE Paragraph

00:17:14.278 --> 00:17:16.992
Well, it took some convincing
for Darrell to go,

00:17:17.016 --> 00:17:19.018
but finally we got there,

00:17:19.042 --> 00:17:20.548
and when I knocked on the door,

00:17:20.572 --> 00:17:23.662
the imam said he only had
15 minutes left for us,

00:17:23.686 --> 00:17:26.236
because he was preparing
for a prayer service.

00:17:26.260 --> 00:17:27.457
I said, "We'll take it."

00:17:28.252 --> 00:17:29.410
We went in,

00:17:29.434 --> 00:17:34.617
and two and a half hours later,
we came out after hugging and crying

00:17:34.641 --> 00:17:38.613
and, very strangely,
bonding over Chuck Norris for some reason.

NOTE Paragraph

00:17:38.637 --> 00:17:39.687
(Laughter)

NOTE Paragraph

00:17:39.711 --> 00:17:41.643
I don't know what it was about that,

00:17:41.667 --> 00:17:43.059
but that's what happened.

00:17:44.459 --> 00:17:47.559
And I'm happy to say now
that Darrell and the imam,

00:17:47.583 --> 00:17:50.019
you can often find them
at the local falafel stand,

00:17:50.043 --> 00:17:51.658
having lunch together.

NOTE Paragraph

00:17:51.682 --> 00:17:55.447
(Applause)

NOTE Paragraph

00:18:00.418 --> 00:18:02.959
You see, it's our disconnection
from each other.

00:18:02.983 --> 00:18:05.226
Hatred is born of ignorance.

00:18:05.250 --> 00:18:09.329
Fear is its father,
and isolation is its mother.

00:18:09.353 --> 00:18:13.330
When we don't understand something,
we tend to be afraid of it,

00:18:13.354 --> 00:18:15.073
and if we keep ourselves from it,

00:18:15.097 --> 00:18:18.244
that fear grows, and sometimes,
it turns into hatred.

00:18:19.120 --> 00:18:22.119
Since I've left the movement,
I've helped over a hundred people

00:18:22.143 --> 00:18:25.461
disengage from extremist movements,
from white supremacist groups --

NOTE Paragraph

00:18:25.485 --> 00:18:29.295
(Applause)

NOTE Paragraph

00:18:34.278 --> 00:18:35.804
to even jihadist groups.

00:18:35.828 --> 00:18:40.385
And the way I do that
is not by arguing with them,

00:18:40.409 --> 00:18:41.926
not by debating them,

00:18:41.950 --> 00:18:44.239
not by even telling them they're wrong,

00:18:44.263 --> 00:18:46.496
even though, boy, I want to sometimes.

00:18:46.520 --> 00:18:47.794
I don't do that.

00:18:48.334 --> 00:18:50.862
Instead, I don't push them away.

00:18:50.886 --> 00:18:52.521
I draw them in closer,

00:18:53.220 --> 00:18:57.583
and I listen very closely
for their potholes,

00:18:58.345 --> 00:19:00.014
and then I begin to fill them in.

00:19:00.657 --> 00:19:02.913
I try to make people more resilient,

00:19:02.937 --> 00:19:04.441
more self-confident,

00:19:04.841 --> 00:19:08.870
more able to have skills
to compete in the marketplace

00:19:08.894 --> 00:19:11.566
so that they don't have
to blame the other,

00:19:12.764 --> 00:19:14.588
the other that they've never met.

NOTE Paragraph

00:19:15.758 --> 00:19:19.558
I'd like to just leave you
with one last thing before I go.

00:19:20.915 --> 00:19:24.438
Of all the people I've worked with,
they will all tell you the same thing.

00:19:24.462 --> 00:19:28.054
One, they became extremists

00:19:28.078 --> 00:19:31.912
because they wanted to belong,
not because of ideology or dogma.

00:19:32.787 --> 00:19:35.415
And second, what brought them out

00:19:36.290 --> 00:19:38.192
was receiving compassion

00:19:38.216 --> 00:19:40.559
from the people
they least deserved it from,

00:19:41.247 --> 00:19:42.900
when they least deserved it.

NOTE Paragraph

00:19:42.924 --> 00:19:45.021
(Applause)

NOTE Paragraph

00:19:45.045 --> 00:19:47.355
So I would like
to leave you with a challenge:

00:19:47.801 --> 00:19:51.307
go out there today, tomorrow --
hopefully every day --

00:19:52.052 --> 00:19:56.724
find somebody that you think
is undeserving of your compassion

00:19:56.748 --> 00:19:57.932
and give it to them,

00:19:58.694 --> 00:20:00.083
because I guarantee you,

00:20:00.107 --> 00:20:02.015
they're the ones who need it the most.

NOTE Paragraph

00:20:02.554 --> 00:20:03.866
Thank you very much.

NOTE Paragraph

00:20:03.890 --> 00:20:05.853
(Applause)