1 00:00:06,180 --> 00:00:08,080 ["New York Close Up"] 2 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:09,820 [Eric Winkler, artist] 3 00:00:09,820 --> 00:00:11,280 [WINKLER] I met Bryan at a Halloween party. 4 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:12,240 [Bryan Zanisnik, artist] 5 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:13,460 [WINKLER] He was in the arts, 6 00:00:13,469 --> 00:00:14,549 I'm in the arts. 7 00:00:14,549 --> 00:00:16,469 We both grew up in New Jersey. 8 00:00:16,469 --> 00:00:19,449 We basically had the same kind of life. 9 00:00:22,700 --> 00:00:26,740 ["Bryan Zanisnik & Eric Winkler's Animated Conversation"] 10 00:00:26,740 --> 00:00:27,940 [You go swimming! I'm making art!] 11 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:34,640 [WINKLER] And then we started doing the comics 12 00:00:35,239 --> 00:00:36,739 just because... 13 00:00:36,739 --> 00:00:39,699 I think Bryan has always wanted to be able to draw something. 14 00:00:40,260 --> 00:00:41,840 He can't do it, though. 15 00:00:42,260 --> 00:00:44,480 His sculptures are like drawings. 16 00:00:44,489 --> 00:00:46,789 He tries things and erases things. 17 00:00:46,789 --> 00:00:50,349 The way he works is very similar to drawing. 18 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:53,880 He's Italian by way of New Jersey, 19 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:56,740 by way of wanting to be mildly Jewish. 20 00:00:57,340 --> 00:00:59,699 That wraps up into basically 21 00:00:59,699 --> 00:01:01,649 him using his hands a lot, 22 00:01:01,649 --> 00:01:03,350 just talking about, like, 23 00:01:03,350 --> 00:01:04,809 all kinds of crazy things. 24 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:06,560 After years of friendship, 25 00:01:06,570 --> 00:01:09,810 I know that he's going to tell me a crazy story 26 00:01:09,810 --> 00:01:11,170 and I'm going to have to say, 27 00:01:11,170 --> 00:01:12,930 "So which part was really true?" 28 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:14,220 [ZANISNIK] Yeah, I don't know. 29 00:01:14,220 --> 00:01:15,700 I got this, like, really weird flu. 30 00:01:15,710 --> 00:01:16,979 My head started pounding me. 31 00:01:16,979 --> 00:01:18,200 I'm mostly better, but I'm just, like, 32 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:19,620 really confused now. 33 00:01:19,979 --> 00:01:21,509 I don't know, but... 34 00:01:21,509 --> 00:01:23,670 there could be fluid building around my brain as we speak. 35 00:01:23,670 --> 00:01:25,610 And sometimes, I'll be, like, sitting at home, 36 00:01:26,060 --> 00:01:26,850 all by myself, 37 00:01:26,850 --> 00:01:27,930 and I'd just say, 38 00:01:27,930 --> 00:01:29,250 "I'm Bryan Zanisnik." 39 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:31,480 "I live in Ridgewood, New York." 40 00:01:32,509 --> 00:01:33,469 "I'm an artist." 41 00:01:34,380 --> 00:01:36,399 And I kind of just repeat facts about myself, 42 00:01:36,399 --> 00:01:37,979 because I think if I know these things 43 00:01:37,979 --> 00:01:39,340 and I'm not confused, 44 00:01:39,340 --> 00:01:40,310 I could make the argument 45 00:01:40,310 --> 00:01:42,409 that if I think I'm confused, I'm not 46 00:01:42,409 --> 00:01:44,409 because confused people don't know they're confused. 47 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,440 But I'm pretty sure there's fluid forming around my brain. 48 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:52,360 --We ought to think about what we want to make 49 00:01:52,369 --> 00:01:55,049 --our next comics about. 50 00:01:55,049 --> 00:01:57,130 --Because we could either 51 00:01:57,130 --> 00:02:00,850 --address some of the more current things that are going on. 52 00:02:00,850 --> 00:02:02,370 [WINKLER] Like, what were you thinking? 53 00:02:03,060 --> 00:02:04,520 [ZANISNIK] [SIGHS] I don't know, you know... 54 00:02:04,530 --> 00:02:06,310 [WINKLER] So what's going on in the work now? 55 00:02:06,310 --> 00:02:07,280 [ZANISNIK] So, yeah, I'm working on this project. 56 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,040 I'm, like, building this library. 57 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,340 You know, it's all based around the time Philip Roth almost... 58 00:02:12,340 --> 00:02:13,420 [WINKLER] He tried to sue you... 59 00:02:13,420 --> 00:02:15,100 [ZANISNIK] Yeah, Roth tried to sue me. 60 00:02:15,100 --> 00:02:17,080 ["The Seventh Lawsuit" starring Philip Roth as Death] 61 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:24,720 --[ZANISNIK, IMPERSONATING ROTH] I'm Roth, 62 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,400 --I will be by your side a long while, 63 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,300 --as will my lawyers. 64 00:02:30,300 --> 00:02:31,419 --[ZANISNIK] No! No! 65 00:02:31,420 --> 00:02:32,379 --Get out of my brain! 66 00:02:32,379 --> 00:02:35,010 So, back in 2012, 67 00:02:35,010 --> 00:02:37,319 I was doing this performance at Abrons Art Center 68 00:02:37,319 --> 00:02:40,950 where, in the middle of these thousands of objects, 69 00:02:40,950 --> 00:02:44,070 there was this twelve-foot-tall glass container, 70 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:45,950 and then I was holding this Philip Roth novel. 71 00:02:45,950 --> 00:02:47,120 I wasn't even reading it out loud-- 72 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:48,320 I was just holding it. 73 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,300 And he found out about this 74 00:02:50,310 --> 00:02:52,560 and he tried to sue me. 75 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:54,480 So yesterday I went on Amazon 76 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,540 and bought 550 Philip Roth novels. 77 00:02:56,540 --> 00:02:57,020 [WINKLER] No you didn't! 78 00:02:57,020 --> 00:02:57,959 So then how much did they cost? 79 00:02:57,959 --> 00:02:59,099 [ZANISNIK] It's like, uh... 80 00:02:59,099 --> 00:03:00,599 I don't, it's like 1,600 bucks for five... 81 00:03:00,599 --> 00:03:01,219 It was cheap! 82 00:03:01,220 --> 00:03:01,760 [WINKLER] Hmmm! 83 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:05,040 [ZANISNIK] So now I'm collecting a huge library of his works. 84 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,269 You know, it's The Philip Roth Presidential Library. 85 00:03:07,269 --> 00:03:10,370 I have a 3D-modeled printed bust of Roth. 86 00:03:10,370 --> 00:03:11,420 [WINKLER] Your new roommate! 87 00:03:12,940 --> 00:03:13,600 [RADIO PROGRAM PLAYS] 88 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:15,940 --"This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross." 89 00:03:15,940 --> 00:03:17,980 --"Happy birthday, Philip Roth!" 90 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:19,800 [WINKLER] You think he's going to sue you again? 91 00:03:19,810 --> 00:03:21,790 [ZANISNIK] Well, I'm hoping, but... 92 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,360 don't tell the gallery in Miami this. 93 00:03:24,420 --> 00:03:26,580 I'm actually going down there on Thursday. 94 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:39,040 --[TSA agent] "What is this, a joke?" 95 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:39,960 --"Whose bag is this?" 96 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,100 --"You want to explain this to me?" 97 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:43,580 [ZANISNIK] I was in graduate school, 98 00:03:43,590 --> 00:03:45,260 and I was shooting these videos. 99 00:03:45,260 --> 00:03:47,780 And then after the videos were finished, 100 00:03:47,780 --> 00:03:50,019 I was taking objects from the videos, 101 00:03:50,019 --> 00:03:52,859 arranging them on the wall as a tableau, 102 00:03:52,860 --> 00:03:54,000 and then photographing them. 103 00:03:54,010 --> 00:03:56,299 And I began realizing these photographs 104 00:03:56,299 --> 00:03:59,549 were actually even more interesting than the videos themselves. 105 00:03:59,549 --> 00:04:00,879 And I think in recent years, 106 00:04:00,879 --> 00:04:03,000 I've really been interested in seeing 107 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,340 how far I can push it site-specifically. 108 00:04:10,380 --> 00:04:11,600 Yeah, let's keep talking about that, 109 00:04:11,610 --> 00:04:13,189 because I really feel like there's something in there... 110 00:04:13,189 --> 00:04:14,960 in the comic book about... 111 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:16,159 [WINKLER] No, I'm already getting ideas, 112 00:04:16,159 --> 00:04:17,400 so I think it's good, but... 113 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:19,000 You're doing something at the Queens Museum, right? 114 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,360 [ZANISNIK] Yeah, well my studio is there for the year now. 115 00:04:24,940 --> 00:04:25,899 I'm working on this project 116 00:04:25,899 --> 00:04:27,679 where I'm building these sets 117 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:29,400 for photographs. 118 00:04:32,340 --> 00:04:33,500 I don't know if you remember... 119 00:04:33,510 --> 00:04:34,960 you came by studio in DUMBO last year? 120 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,960 Remember how it had this, like, crazy view of the Manhattan skyline? 121 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:39,060 [WINKER] Yeah, yeah. 122 00:04:39,060 --> 00:04:41,419 [ZANISNIK] So I built these sets over the windows, 123 00:04:41,419 --> 00:04:42,739 and then I kind of, like, punched holes. 124 00:04:42,740 --> 00:04:44,280 [SOUND OF PAPER TEARING] 125 00:04:47,500 --> 00:04:49,479 When I went to the Queens Museum, 126 00:04:49,479 --> 00:04:50,860 I kind of thought I wanted to continue this. 127 00:04:50,860 --> 00:04:52,430 [WINKLER] Not as good of a view, though. 128 00:04:52,430 --> 00:04:54,229 [ZANISNIK] I don't have windows in my studio, 129 00:04:54,229 --> 00:04:55,349 so that's a problem. 130 00:04:56,789 --> 00:04:59,520 But, right outside the museum 131 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,140 are all the monuments from the World's Fair. 132 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:07,480 People think I do this in Photoshop. 133 00:05:07,950 --> 00:05:09,649 I think that these places 134 00:05:09,649 --> 00:05:12,219 that are so much tied to the city 135 00:05:12,219 --> 00:05:13,860 or identified with the city 136 00:05:13,860 --> 00:05:18,380 are just almost becoming outside of our reach. 137 00:05:18,380 --> 00:05:19,490 Like even with the Queens Museum, 138 00:05:19,490 --> 00:05:20,710 it's an amazing institution, 139 00:05:20,710 --> 00:05:23,510 but I am practically half a foot in Long Island. 140 00:05:23,510 --> 00:05:25,149 So I'm feeling like I'm being, like, 141 00:05:25,149 --> 00:05:26,450 pushed and pushed, 142 00:05:26,450 --> 00:05:28,659 like the things that we identify as a city-- 143 00:05:28,659 --> 00:05:30,820 and the iconic New York City-- 144 00:05:30,820 --> 00:05:32,849 are, like, slipping away from artists. 145 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,060 And I think, in a way, it also feels like-- 146 00:05:36,070 --> 00:05:37,330 to me, this project-- 147 00:05:37,330 --> 00:05:39,200 I feel, in some weird ways, 148 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,980 it's almost kind of a goodbye to New York. 149 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,000 ["Escape from New York"] 150 00:06:00,100 --> 00:06:01,839 My work is very personal, 151 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:03,450 but I've been careful not to get 152 00:06:03,450 --> 00:06:05,399 too indulgent in autobiography, 153 00:06:05,399 --> 00:06:08,360 but Eric can address it directly in a comic. 154 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:09,140 And I like that. 155 00:06:09,140 --> 00:06:09,649 I like this idea 156 00:06:09,649 --> 00:06:11,870 that it sort of contextualizes-- 157 00:06:11,870 --> 00:06:13,959 it brings another level of autobiography. 158 00:06:14,740 --> 00:06:16,460 This is that performance where 159 00:06:16,469 --> 00:06:19,209 I was wearing baguettes as arms 160 00:06:19,209 --> 00:06:20,509 and they got ripped off 161 00:06:21,070 --> 00:06:23,650 and then my mom and dad ate my arms. 162 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:24,640 [WINKLER, LAUGHING] Right! 163 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:25,940 [ZANISNIK] That was a good time. 164 00:06:26,260 --> 00:06:30,279 [WINKLER] The character is a little more arrogant. 165 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,529 Not that Bryan isn't slightly arrogant. 166 00:06:32,529 --> 00:06:33,550 Sometimes that comes across. 167 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,420 [ZANISNIK] There's a lot of similarities between Eric and I. 168 00:06:38,529 --> 00:06:43,250 He lost his mother to cancer two years ago 169 00:06:43,250 --> 00:06:45,940 and I lost my mom to cancer last year. 170 00:06:45,940 --> 00:06:49,440 So I think there's also kind of been a real, sort of, 171 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:52,719 new depth to our friendship there, 172 00:06:52,719 --> 00:06:54,870 and us kind of both having gone through this loss 173 00:06:54,870 --> 00:06:56,730 early in our lives. 174 00:07:00,380 --> 00:07:01,820 How's your dad doing? 175 00:07:02,300 --> 00:07:03,080 [WINKLER] He's okay. 176 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:04,280 [ZANISNIK] It's always weird, 177 00:07:04,280 --> 00:07:05,760 it's like how do you... 178 00:07:05,770 --> 00:07:08,740 how do you talk about losing your mom, without... 179 00:07:09,620 --> 00:07:11,120 It feels like I always just go to, like, 180 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:12,080 talking about my dad. 181 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,459 [WINKER] No, I mean, there's different stages of, like, 182 00:07:14,459 --> 00:07:16,039 having to deal with it, 183 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:17,420 and then, like, how you feel, 184 00:07:17,420 --> 00:07:18,340 like, during different stages. 185 00:07:18,349 --> 00:07:18,830 No, I still... 186 00:07:18,830 --> 00:07:19,890 you know, I get... 187 00:07:19,890 --> 00:07:22,310 Like, I have hard days. 188 00:07:33,260 --> 00:07:34,460 [ZANISNIK] My mom was... 189 00:07:34,460 --> 00:07:35,060 a real character. 190 00:07:35,060 --> 00:07:36,020 [WINKER] Your mom was a character. 191 00:07:36,020 --> 00:07:36,520 So was mine. 192 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:37,180 [ZANISNIK] Yeah, so was yours. 193 00:07:37,190 --> 00:07:38,630 And it's crazy thinking about, like, 194 00:07:38,630 --> 00:07:40,580 how many comics did you draw of my mom--a lot! 195 00:07:40,580 --> 00:07:41,540 [WINKLER] I know, a lot! 196 00:07:41,550 --> 00:07:42,210 [BOTH] Yeah. 197 00:07:44,020 --> 00:07:44,880 [WINKLER] It's weird sometimes, 198 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:46,740 because I want to put her back in sometimes. 199 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:49,620 [ZANISNIK] Maybe it's a weird thing to say, 200 00:07:49,620 --> 00:07:51,300 but I feel like she would like it. 201 00:07:53,260 --> 00:07:54,440 Someone said to me once, 202 00:07:54,450 --> 00:07:56,450 "The relationship doesn't really end." 203 00:07:56,820 --> 00:07:58,000 Like, it just changes-- 204 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,649 in a very different, 205 00:07:59,649 --> 00:08:01,300 kind of, often sad way. 206 00:08:01,300 --> 00:08:03,399 But it's not like it completely ends a hundred percent. 207 00:08:03,399 --> 00:08:04,360 [WINKLER] Right. 208 00:08:06,100 --> 00:08:08,399 [ZANISNIK] You know, I probably had done 209 00:08:08,399 --> 00:08:10,330 around thirty performances with my parents, 210 00:08:10,330 --> 00:08:11,279 believe it or not, 211 00:08:11,279 --> 00:08:12,870 over seven years. 212 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:15,660 One of the things that was really nice 213 00:08:15,669 --> 00:08:18,130 is my relationship with them 214 00:08:18,130 --> 00:08:20,190 really evolved over those years.