0:00:06.180,0:00:08.080 ["New York Close Up"] 0:00:08.440,0:00:09.820 [Eric Winkler, artist] 0:00:09.820,0:00:11.280 [WINKLER] I met Bryan at a Halloween party. 0:00:11.280,0:00:12.240 [Bryan Zanisnik, artist] 0:00:12.240,0:00:13.460 [WINKLER] He was in the arts, 0:00:13.469,0:00:14.549 I'm in the arts. 0:00:14.549,0:00:16.469 We both grew up in New Jersey. 0:00:16.469,0:00:19.449 We basically had the same kind of life. 0:00:22.700,0:00:26.740 ["Bryan Zanisnik & Eric Winkler's Animated[br]Conversation"] 0:00:26.740,0:00:27.940 [You go swimming! I'm making art!] 0:00:32.880,0:00:34.640 [WINKLER] And then we started doing the comics 0:00:35.239,0:00:36.739 just because... 0:00:36.739,0:00:39.699 I think Bryan has always wanted to be able[br]to draw something. 0:00:40.260,0:00:41.840 He can't do it, though. 0:00:42.260,0:00:44.480 His sculptures are like drawings. 0:00:44.489,0:00:46.789 He tries things and erases things. 0:00:46.789,0:00:50.349 The way he works is very similar to drawing. 0:00:51.800,0:00:53.880 He's Italian by way of New Jersey, 0:00:53.880,0:00:56.740 by way of wanting to be mildly Jewish. 0:00:57.340,0:00:59.699 That wraps up into basically 0:00:59.699,0:01:01.649 him using his hands a lot, 0:01:01.649,0:01:03.350 just talking about, like, 0:01:03.350,0:01:04.809 all kinds of crazy things. 0:01:05.240,0:01:06.560 After years of friendship, 0:01:06.570,0:01:09.810 I know that he's going to tell me a crazy story 0:01:09.810,0:01:11.170 and I'm going to have to say, 0:01:11.170,0:01:12.930 "So which part was really true?" 0:01:13.360,0:01:14.220 [ZANISNIK] Yeah, I don't know. 0:01:14.220,0:01:15.700 I got this, like, really weird flu. 0:01:15.710,0:01:16.979 My head started pounding me. 0:01:16.979,0:01:18.200 I'm mostly better, but I'm just, like, 0:01:18.200,0:01:19.620 really confused now. 0:01:19.979,0:01:21.509 I don't know, but... 0:01:21.509,0:01:23.670 there could be fluid building around my brain[br]as we speak. 0:01:23.670,0:01:25.610 And sometimes, I'll be, like, sitting at home, 0:01:26.060,0:01:26.850 all by myself, 0:01:26.850,0:01:27.930 and I'd just say, 0:01:27.930,0:01:29.250 "I'm Bryan Zanisnik." 0:01:29.920,0:01:31.480 "I live in Ridgewood, New York." 0:01:32.509,0:01:33.469 "I'm an artist." 0:01:34.380,0:01:36.399 And I kind of just repeat facts about myself, 0:01:36.399,0:01:37.979 because I think if I know these things 0:01:37.979,0:01:39.340 and I'm not confused, 0:01:39.340,0:01:40.310 I could make the argument 0:01:40.310,0:01:42.409 that if I think I'm confused, I'm not 0:01:42.409,0:01:44.409 because confused people don't know they're confused. 0:01:44.720,0:01:47.440 But I'm pretty sure there's fluid forming[br]around my brain. 0:01:51.000,0:01:52.360 --We ought to think about what we want to[br]make 0:01:52.369,0:01:55.049 --our next comics about. 0:01:55.049,0:01:57.130 --Because we could either 0:01:57.130,0:02:00.850 --address some of the more current things[br]that are going on. 0:02:00.850,0:02:02.370 [WINKLER] Like, what were you thinking? 0:02:03.060,0:02:04.520 [ZANISNIK] [SIGHS] I don't know, you know... 0:02:04.530,0:02:06.310 [WINKLER] So what's going on in the work now? 0:02:06.310,0:02:07.280 [ZANISNIK] So, yeah, I'm working on this project. 0:02:07.280,0:02:09.040 I'm, like, building this library. 0:02:09.040,0:02:12.340 You know, it's all based around the time Philip Roth almost... 0:02:12.340,0:02:13.420 [WINKLER] He tried to sue you... 0:02:13.420,0:02:15.100 [ZANISNIK] Yeah, Roth tried to sue me. 0:02:15.100,0:02:17.080 ["The Seventh Lawsuit" starring Philip Roth as Death] 0:02:23.120,0:02:24.720 --[ZANISNIK, IMPERSONATING ROTH] I'm Roth, 0:02:24.720,0:02:28.400 --I will be by your side a long while, 0:02:28.400,0:02:30.300 --as will my lawyers. 0:02:30.300,0:02:31.419 --[ZANISNIK] No! No! 0:02:31.420,0:02:32.379 --Get out of my brain! 0:02:32.379,0:02:35.010 So, back in 2012, 0:02:35.010,0:02:37.319 I was doing this performance at Abrons Art Center 0:02:37.319,0:02:40.950 where, in the middle of these thousands of objects, 0:02:40.950,0:02:44.070 there was this twelve-foot-tall glass container, 0:02:44.400,0:02:45.950 and then I was holding this Philip Roth novel. 0:02:45.950,0:02:47.120 I wasn't even reading it out loud-- 0:02:47.120,0:02:48.320 I was just holding it. 0:02:48.320,0:02:50.300 And he found out about this 0:02:50.310,0:02:52.560 and he tried to sue me. 0:02:52.560,0:02:54.480 So yesterday I went on Amazon 0:02:54.480,0:02:56.540 and bought 550 Philip Roth novels. 0:02:56.540,0:02:57.020 [WINKLER] No you didn't! 0:02:57.020,0:02:57.959 So then how much did they cost? 0:02:57.959,0:02:59.099 [ZANISNIK] It's like, uh... 0:02:59.099,0:03:00.599 I don't, it's like 1,600 bucks for five... 0:03:00.599,0:03:01.219 It was cheap! 0:03:01.220,0:03:01.760 [WINKLER] Hmmm! 0:03:01.760,0:03:05.040 [ZANISNIK] So now I'm collecting a huge library[br]of his works. 0:03:05.040,0:03:07.269 You know, it's The Philip Roth Presidential[br]Library. 0:03:07.269,0:03:10.370 I have a 3D-modeled printed bust of Roth. 0:03:10.370,0:03:11.420 [WINKLER] Your new roommate! 0:03:12.940,0:03:13.600 [RADIO PROGRAM PLAYS] 0:03:13.600,0:03:15.940 --"This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross." 0:03:15.940,0:03:17.980 --"Happy birthday, Philip Roth!" 0:03:18.040,0:03:19.800 [WINKLER] You think he's going to sue you[br]again? 0:03:19.810,0:03:21.790 [ZANISNIK] Well, I'm hoping, but... 0:03:22.400,0:03:24.360 don't tell the gallery in Miami this. 0:03:24.420,0:03:26.580 I'm actually going down there on Thursday. 0:03:37.880,0:03:39.040 --[TSA agent] "What is this, a joke?" 0:03:39.040,0:03:39.960 --"Whose bag is this?" 0:03:40.480,0:03:42.100 --"You want to explain this to me?" 0:03:42.280,0:03:43.580 [ZANISNIK] I was in graduate school, 0:03:43.590,0:03:45.260 and I was shooting these videos. 0:03:45.260,0:03:47.780 And then after the videos were finished, 0:03:47.780,0:03:50.019 I was taking objects from the videos, 0:03:50.019,0:03:52.859 arranging them on the wall as a tableau, 0:03:52.860,0:03:54.000 and then photographing them. 0:03:54.010,0:03:56.299 And I began realizing these photographs 0:03:56.299,0:03:59.549 were actually even more interesting than the[br]videos themselves. 0:03:59.549,0:04:00.879 And I think in recent years, 0:04:00.879,0:04:03.000 I've really been interested in seeing 0:04:03.000,0:04:06.340 how far I can push it site-specifically. 0:04:10.380,0:04:11.600 Yeah, let's keep talking about that, 0:04:11.610,0:04:13.189 because I really feel like there's something[br]in there... 0:04:13.189,0:04:14.960 in the comic book about... 0:04:14.960,0:04:16.159 [WINKLER] No, I'm already getting ideas, 0:04:16.159,0:04:17.400 so I think it's good, but... 0:04:17.400,0:04:19.000 You're doing something at the Queens Museum, right? 0:04:19.000,0:04:21.360 [ZANISNIK] Yeah, well my studio is there for[br]the year now. 0:04:24.940,0:04:25.899 I'm working on this project 0:04:25.899,0:04:27.679 where I'm building these sets 0:04:28.120,0:04:29.400 for photographs. 0:04:32.340,0:04:33.500 I don't know if you remember... 0:04:33.510,0:04:34.960 you came by studio in DUMBO last year? 0:04:34.960,0:04:37.960 Remember how it had this, like, crazy view[br]of the Manhattan skyline? 0:04:38.000,0:04:39.060 [WINKER] Yeah, yeah. 0:04:39.060,0:04:41.419 [ZANISNIK] So I built these sets over the[br]windows, 0:04:41.419,0:04:42.739 and then I kind of, like, punched holes. 0:04:42.740,0:04:44.280 [SOUND OF PAPER TEARING] 0:04:47.500,0:04:49.479 When I went to the Queens Museum, 0:04:49.479,0:04:50.860 I kind of thought I wanted to continue this. 0:04:50.860,0:04:52.430 [WINKLER] Not as good of a view, though. 0:04:52.430,0:04:54.229 [ZANISNIK] I don't have windows in my studio, 0:04:54.229,0:04:55.349 so that's a problem. 0:04:56.789,0:04:59.520 But, right outside the museum 0:04:59.520,0:05:02.140 are all the monuments from the World's Fair. 0:05:05.520,0:05:07.480 People think I do this in Photoshop. 0:05:07.950,0:05:09.649 I think that these places 0:05:09.649,0:05:12.219 that are so much tied to the city 0:05:12.219,0:05:13.860 or identified with the city 0:05:13.860,0:05:18.380 are just almost becoming outside of our reach. 0:05:18.380,0:05:19.490 Like even with the Queens Museum, 0:05:19.490,0:05:20.710 it's an amazing institution, 0:05:20.710,0:05:23.510 but I am practically half a foot in Long Island. 0:05:23.510,0:05:25.149 So I'm feeling like I'm being, like, 0:05:25.149,0:05:26.450 pushed and pushed, 0:05:26.450,0:05:28.659 like the things that we identify as a city-- 0:05:28.659,0:05:30.820 and the iconic New York City-- 0:05:30.820,0:05:32.849 are, like, slipping away from artists. 0:05:33.440,0:05:36.060 And I think, in a way, it also feels like-- 0:05:36.070,0:05:37.330 to me, this project-- 0:05:37.330,0:05:39.200 I feel, in some weird ways, 0:05:39.200,0:05:41.980 it's almost kind of a goodbye to New York. 0:05:43.680,0:05:45.000 ["Escape from New York"] 0:06:00.100,0:06:01.839 My work is very personal, 0:06:01.839,0:06:03.450 but I've been careful not to get 0:06:03.450,0:06:05.399 too indulgent in autobiography, 0:06:05.399,0:06:08.360 but Eric can address it directly in a comic. 0:06:08.360,0:06:09.140 And I like that. 0:06:09.140,0:06:09.649 I like this idea 0:06:09.649,0:06:11.870 that it sort of contextualizes-- 0:06:11.870,0:06:13.959 it brings another level of autobiography. 0:06:14.740,0:06:16.460 This is that performance where 0:06:16.469,0:06:19.209 I was wearing baguettes as arms 0:06:19.209,0:06:20.509 and they got ripped off 0:06:21.070,0:06:23.650 and then my mom and dad ate my arms. 0:06:23.800,0:06:24.640 [WINKLER, LAUGHING] Right! 0:06:24.640,0:06:25.940 [ZANISNIK] That was a good time. 0:06:26.260,0:06:30.279 [WINKLER] The character is a little more arrogant. 0:06:30.279,0:06:32.529 Not that Bryan isn't slightly arrogant. 0:06:32.529,0:06:33.550 Sometimes that comes across. 0:06:34.320,0:06:37.420 [ZANISNIK] There's a lot of similarities between[br]Eric and I. 0:06:38.529,0:06:43.250 He lost his mother to cancer two years ago 0:06:43.250,0:06:45.940 and I lost my mom to cancer last year. 0:06:45.940,0:06:49.440 So I think there's also kind of been a real,[br]sort of, 0:06:51.240,0:06:52.719 new depth to our friendship there, 0:06:52.719,0:06:54.870 and us kind of both having gone through this loss 0:06:54.870,0:06:56.730 early in our lives. 0:07:00.380,0:07:01.820 How's your dad doing? 0:07:02.300,0:07:03.080 [WINKLER] He's okay. 0:07:03.080,0:07:04.280 [ZANISNIK] It's always weird, 0:07:04.280,0:07:05.760 it's like how do you... 0:07:05.770,0:07:08.740 how do you talk about losing your mom, without... 0:07:09.620,0:07:11.120 It feels like I always just go to, like, 0:07:11.120,0:07:12.080 talking about my dad. 0:07:12.080,0:07:14.459 [WINKER] No, I mean, there's different stages[br]of, like, 0:07:14.459,0:07:16.039 having to deal with it, 0:07:16.040,0:07:17.420 and then, like, how you feel, 0:07:17.420,0:07:18.340 like, during different stages. 0:07:18.349,0:07:18.830 No, I still... 0:07:18.830,0:07:19.890 you know, I get... 0:07:19.890,0:07:22.310 Like, I have hard days. 0:07:33.260,0:07:34.460 [ZANISNIK] My mom was... 0:07:34.460,0:07:35.060 a real character. 0:07:35.060,0:07:36.020 [WINKER] Your mom was a character. 0:07:36.020,0:07:36.520 So was mine. 0:07:36.520,0:07:37.180 [ZANISNIK] Yeah, so was yours. 0:07:37.190,0:07:38.630 And it's crazy thinking about, like, 0:07:38.630,0:07:40.580 how many comics did you draw of my mom--a lot! 0:07:40.580,0:07:41.540 [WINKLER] I know, a lot! 0:07:41.550,0:07:42.210 [BOTH] Yeah. 0:07:44.020,0:07:44.880 [WINKLER] It's weird sometimes, 0:07:44.880,0:07:46.740 because I want to put her back in sometimes. 0:07:48.360,0:07:49.620 [ZANISNIK] Maybe it's a weird thing to say, 0:07:49.620,0:07:51.300 but I feel like she would like it. 0:07:53.260,0:07:54.440 Someone said to me once, 0:07:54.450,0:07:56.450 "The relationship doesn't really end." 0:07:56.820,0:07:58.000 Like, it just changes-- 0:07:58.000,0:07:59.649 in a very different, 0:07:59.649,0:08:01.300 kind of, often sad way. 0:08:01.300,0:08:03.399 But it's not like it completely ends a hundred percent. 0:08:03.399,0:08:04.360 [WINKLER] Right. 0:08:06.100,0:08:08.399 [ZANISNIK] You know, I probably had done 0:08:08.399,0:08:10.330 around thirty performances with my parents, 0:08:10.330,0:08:11.279 believe it or not, 0:08:11.279,0:08:12.870 over seven years. 0:08:14.320,0:08:15.660 One of the things that was really nice 0:08:15.669,0:08:18.130 is my relationship with them 0:08:18.130,0:08:20.190 really evolved over those years.