1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,270
34C3 preroll music
2
00:00:13,270 --> 00:00:17,939
Herald: Back in time, back to the 1990's
where the internet actually made sounds,
3
00:00:17,939 --> 00:00:22,922
and you could annoy the whole family while
blocking the phone line. He was actually
4
00:00:22,922 --> 00:00:28,230
heavily involved in these early days of
the internet. He operated and participated
5
00:00:28,230 --> 00:00:33,713
in these early structures, namely Bulletin
Board Systems and the UseNet. And he now
6
00:00:33,713 --> 00:00:38,965
takes us back in time, to tell us all
about the time when the internet made
7
00:00:38,965 --> 00:00:40,951
sounds. Thank you very much LaForge.
8
00:00:40,951 --> 00:00:47,985
applause
9
00:00:47,985 --> 00:00:53,437
LaForge: Thank you very much for the
introduction.This is a quite unusual
10
00:00:53,437 --> 00:01:01,405
setting for me. Typically I give talks
about deeply technical topics. Protocoll
11
00:01:01,405 --> 00:01:06,739
level details and telecom specs and so on.
Now the first time I speak in the Art and
12
00:01:06,739 --> 00:01:11,484
Culture track. That is definitely
something new for me. So, why am I here
13
00:01:11,484 --> 00:01:17,559
and why am I talking about this topic.
First of all, I was involved to some
14
00:01:17,559 --> 00:01:25,343
extent yes, but for sure I was not
somebody who had any significant role in
15
00:01:25,343 --> 00:01:31,524
that universe. Neither in the BBS scene or
in the early internet days. I was just
16
00:01:31,524 --> 00:01:38,360
basically a youngster, a teenager, who had
fun playing with technology and was
17
00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:43,309
helping others to communicate using
technology. There are many more people who
18
00:01:43,309 --> 00:01:47,428
have, who are much more qualified than me
to talk about that subject but I ... and
19
00:01:47,428 --> 00:01:51,920
that's the reason why I'm here and why I
submitted this talk is, you don't really
20
00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:56,346
see many people speaking about these days
or about those topics anymore. And even if
21
00:01:56,346 --> 00:02:00,490
you want to research it, I think there's
like one or two books in German on that
22
00:02:00,490 --> 00:02:07,559
subject, they're very hard to get and also
not very complete. So, I think we have to
23
00:02:07,559 --> 00:02:15,490
sort of document the history of it for
those people, who have not been around at
24
00:02:15,490 --> 00:02:19,598
the time. So, this talk will not have as
many acronyms as you are used to from
25
00:02:19,598 --> 00:02:24,720
talks that I usually give. Still you have
typos in the slides, as you can see in the
26
00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,450
second line already, so that didn't
change. I didn't invent any of the
27
00:02:28,450 --> 00:02:32,279
technologies covered here. I didn't write
any of the software covered. I was just a
28
00:02:32,279 --> 00:02:40,390
user and operator or sysadmin. And that's
the world I grew up in from 11 onwards.
29
00:02:40,390 --> 00:02:46,194
As I said many people lack that history and
to start with that, maybe a quick poll in
30
00:02:46,194 --> 00:02:51,718
the audience. Who has ever dialed into a
BBS using a modem? Raise your hands. Okay.
31
00:02:51,718 --> 00:02:58,890
So, I'm preaching to the converted. Okay,
maybe I should invite all of you up to the
32
00:02:58,890 --> 00:03:05,800
stage and we should make a discussion-
round instead. Anyway. So, circuit switch
33
00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:10,900
telephony. Well, this is the telephony
from 1876 until about 1988 with
34
00:03:10,900 --> 00:03:15,416
analog voice circuits over copper wires
and dial-up connections between A and B.
35
00:03:15,416 --> 00:03:19,185
I guess everybody still remembers these.
Even if you're young, you should have seen
36
00:03:19,185 --> 00:03:26,780
a classic telephone, I think. And yeah,
you have analog amplifiers possibly in the
37
00:03:26,780 --> 00:03:31,404
path, but actually the copper wires are
physically switched at telephone
38
00:03:31,404 --> 00:03:36,486
exchanges. So, this structure looks a bit
like this: We have a telephone at one end,
39
00:03:36,486 --> 00:03:41,133
we have a telephone at another end, and we
have telephone exchanges or switches,
40
00:03:41,133 --> 00:03:45,377
which actually switch the circuit - hence
the term circuit switched telephony -
41
00:03:45,377 --> 00:03:52,260
between A and B. So, you have a copper
wire from your phone to the office, the
42
00:03:52,260 --> 00:03:56,747
exchange, to which you are connected and
then that exchange again has copper wires
43
00:03:56,747 --> 00:04:02,735
to other exchanges and so on. And based on
the phone number you dial the call is
44
00:04:02,735 --> 00:04:08,316
switched to the destination subscriber.
That's sort of the foundation in terms of
45
00:04:08,316 --> 00:04:13,914
technology that we're using here. Also
something to document for the
46
00:04:13,914 --> 00:04:19,000
international audience in Germany at that
time even local calls were metered and
47
00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:24,942
charged by the minute, flat rates didn't
exist and we had multiple zones so there's
48
00:04:24,942 --> 00:04:29,219
not just local calls and long-distance
calls but different depending on your
49
00:04:29,219 --> 00:04:34,780
distance so like up to 50 kilometers or
more than 50 kilometers and so on. And
50
00:04:34,780 --> 00:04:39,400
given on that and the steep pricing and
not so many people could afford long-
51
00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:45,308
distance BBSing at least not for a long
time. All of this started with a device
52
00:04:45,308 --> 00:04:51,156
called the acoustic coupler. It's actually
also how I started even though I'm young
53
00:04:51,156 --> 00:04:57,946
and I only started in I think about 90 or
91. At 10 or 11 years of age you don't
54
00:04:57,946 --> 00:05:01,490
have the latest and greatest in
technology. I got a used second hand or
55
00:05:01,490 --> 00:05:07,331
third hand Olivetti acoustic coupler from
my uncle it had even a battery it could be
56
00:05:07,331 --> 00:05:12,090
operated mobile it had a battery
compartment with eight Mignon (AA) cells.
57
00:05:12,090 --> 00:05:15,840
Actually I still own it and I still own
related telephone I just thought: yeah
58
00:05:15,840 --> 00:05:21,311
don't have to bring it here. But it
still exists. So anyway, here you have to
59
00:05:21,311 --> 00:05:25,616
dial using your normal phone. You dial the
digits of the phone number and once the
60
00:05:25,616 --> 00:05:30,859
other side picks up the phone and they put
their receiver onto the acoustic coupler
61
00:05:30,859 --> 00:05:35,328
and you put your receiver onto the
acoustic coupler, then data can be
62
00:05:35,328 --> 00:05:40,010
transmitted over the telephone line as
said with manual, dial manual pickup and
63
00:05:40,010 --> 00:05:49,416
rather extremely low speed. This all looks
like this and the next step in the logical
64
00:05:49,416 --> 00:05:55,402
progression then was modems, which is sort of you can
think of an automatized method of acoustic
65
00:05:55,402 --> 00:06:01,109
couplers, where you don't have an air gap
anymore. So in the acoustic coupler you
66
00:06:01,109 --> 00:06:05,541
literally have a couple of centimeters of
air between the speaker and the microphone
67
00:06:05,541 --> 00:06:10,016
in the receiver of your phone, versus the
acoustic coupler. So with the modem
68
00:06:10,016 --> 00:06:16,411
there's a direct connection and also you
have automatic facilities to dial the
69
00:06:16,411 --> 00:06:20,282
telephone number and to answer the line
and so on. So you don't need a manual
70
00:06:20,282 --> 00:06:26,540
operator anymore to pick up a phone or
dial numbers. And this thing gets
71
00:06:26,540 --> 00:06:31,251
transmitted over the telephone
line. This is a stack of various different
72
00:06:31,251 --> 00:06:35,804
modems – we will see some others here,
some of you will remember the brands or
73
00:06:35,804 --> 00:06:41,672
the shapes or even the specific models of
those modems. But that's too much level of
74
00:06:41,672 --> 00:06:50,199
detail for the moment. So let's look a bit
at the speed, or lack of speed, that was
75
00:06:50,199 --> 00:06:57,999
available. It started with 300 bps. I
actually used 300 bps a couple of times.
76
00:06:57,999 --> 00:07:05,405
In fact, in like around 1990 of course it
was extremely slow but still it was what I
77
00:07:05,405 --> 00:07:12,464
could start with at the time. Then the
1200 bps; so this is still rather slow and
78
00:07:12,464 --> 00:07:16,366
you can slowly read and follow the
text as it's being printed. Unfortunately
79
00:07:16,366 --> 00:07:20,930
I don't have an animation or something
like that. I'm not such a multimedia savvy
80
00:07:20,930 --> 00:07:27,411
guy. So yes, then the speeds progressed,
you see the years in which they were
81
00:07:27,411 --> 00:07:34,769
created. The lines with the asterisk mark
years that I found some secondary sources
82
00:07:34,769 --> 00:07:38,349
that originally it had been specified
then. But actually the oldest spec
83
00:07:38,349 --> 00:07:42,464
document for all these earlier ones was
from 1988. So if you go to the ITU
84
00:07:42,464 --> 00:07:46,676
website, the earliest documents you can
find are from 1988 and none of those
85
00:07:46,676 --> 00:07:50,163
earlier documents could – at least on the
internet – be found anywhere. Maybe you
86
00:07:50,163 --> 00:07:55,449
can go to a library or something like
that. Yeah so speeds progressed, different
87
00:07:55,449 --> 00:08:00,140
modulation schemes were introduced to
squeeze ever more bits into these
88
00:08:00,140 --> 00:08:07,899
3 kilohertz analog circuit over the
telephone line. And every couple of years
89
00:08:07,899 --> 00:08:14,460
a new, especially in the 90s, if you
follow this 91 14.400 bps, 93 19.200
90
00:08:14,460 --> 00:08:21,201
to 1994 28.000 bits per second. And there
were of course also proprietary protocols,
91
00:08:21,201 --> 00:08:26,861
then you had to have the same manufacturer
of modem that the other side whom you're
92
00:08:26,861 --> 00:08:32,134
calling and so on, but these are the
official standardized protocols and speeds
93
00:08:32,134 --> 00:08:38,268
that were used. Which brings us... so okay
we have a telephone system; we can dial
94
00:08:38,268 --> 00:08:43,287
numbers; we have a modem that can dial
numbers; we have modems that can send bits
95
00:08:43,287 --> 00:08:50,483
in exceptionally fast speed. What do we do
with this? And this brings us to be BBSs:
96
00:08:50,483 --> 00:08:55,445
where could you actually dial, and what
could you do there? So what's the BBS?
97
00:08:55,445 --> 00:09:01,257
Fundamentally, it's some computer – any
hardware, any operating system, any
98
00:09:01,257 --> 00:09:06,570
software. Some computer that accepts
incoming calls attached to a modem and
99
00:09:06,570 --> 00:09:11,334
offers some kind of interactive service to
the people who dial into that BBS. And if
100
00:09:11,334 --> 00:09:16,165
you wanted to operate a BBS, you had to
have a separate dedicated computer for
101
00:09:16,165 --> 00:09:21,369
that. Because, at the time, most of the
BBS software – and most of the software
102
00:09:21,369 --> 00:09:25,998
that people used in general – predated
multitasking operating systems. So when
103
00:09:25,998 --> 00:09:30,209
you ran the BBS, the computer was busy
running the BBS; you couldn't do anything
104
00:09:30,209 --> 00:09:35,659
else at the same time. So you had to
invest quite a bit into a separate second
105
00:09:35,659 --> 00:09:40,850
computer, or third or fourth, to actually
operate that BBS. You had to have a
106
00:09:40,850 --> 00:09:45,505
separate telephone line. Because if you
operate the BBS into which people dial
107
00:09:45,505 --> 00:09:49,997
into, of course any time of the day or
night people will dial in there, so you
108
00:09:49,997 --> 00:09:53,304
cannot use your normal phone line that you
use to make phone calls but you had to
109
00:09:53,304 --> 00:09:58,654
have a separate dedicated phone line. And
of course the system had to run more or
110
00:09:58,654 --> 00:10:03,772
less 24/7 so people could dial in and
reach it. Luckily, on the user side there
111
00:10:03,772 --> 00:10:10,649
was not so many requirements in terms of
technology that you needed. Your computer
112
00:10:10,649 --> 00:10:15,734
of course you only power when you use it,
and you can share the regular phone line –
113
00:10:15,734 --> 00:10:20,186
with the side effect, as in the
introduction has been mentioned, that your
114
00:10:20,186 --> 00:10:26,511
family might have gone angry if you
occupied it too long – but otherwise no
115
00:10:26,511 --> 00:10:31,754
additional infrastructure other than a
modem required. Now you dial into the BBS
116
00:10:31,754 --> 00:10:39,249
– what kind of content do you get? What do
you do in that BBS? And the name BBS in
117
00:10:39,249 --> 00:10:45,560
English is a Bulletin Board Service,
that's actually the acronym expansion. So
118
00:10:45,560 --> 00:10:49,869
there were Bulletin Boards, message boards
where you could exchange messages and
119
00:10:49,869 --> 00:10:55,352
texts with other people, other users of
that BBS or the so-called sysop, the
120
00:10:55,352 --> 00:11:01,007
system operator, the guy running that BBS.
You could also chat with the system
121
00:11:01,007 --> 00:11:07,106
operator, which, well, didn't exist before
– the ability to chat with somebody else
122
00:11:07,106 --> 00:11:14,174
remotely over a text-based terminal. There
were also multi-user games, text-based, as
123
00:11:14,174 --> 00:11:19,021
well as so called file areas where you
could download files. And downloading
124
00:11:19,021 --> 00:11:26,053
files, given the speeds back then and so
on and so on, of course it was primarily
125
00:11:26,053 --> 00:11:31,375
text documents or small programs or
something like that. Mp3 didn't exist of
126
00:11:31,375 --> 00:11:37,200
course, at least until 95 or whenever it
came out, so maybe some mod files for your
127
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:42,386
module tracker, something like that. And
of course, last but not least, ASCII and
128
00:11:42,386 --> 00:11:48,237
ANSI artwork, which basically is an entire
subculture and scene and community in
129
00:11:48,237 --> 00:11:56,618
itself, creating artworks and drawings
using the character set that was used by
130
00:11:56,618 --> 00:12:04,386
ANSI.sys, which was the DOS, you could say
display driver, in quotes, in a certain
131
00:12:04,386 --> 00:12:09,796
character set and you could draw graphics
like this. We will see some more. And
132
00:12:09,796 --> 00:12:15,722
people were putting a lot of effort into
this, and sort of competing who could who
133
00:12:15,722 --> 00:12:21,589
could make the best representation or the
most expressive artwork given the limited
134
00:12:21,589 --> 00:12:29,521
resolution and the limited characters and
colors available in this domain. So, what
135
00:12:29,521 --> 00:12:33,825
kind of software did one use? Or what kind
of technology was used? Well, we already
136
00:12:33,825 --> 00:12:39,573
had the computer and modem, you needed
some software. So on the BBS side, BBS
137
00:12:39,573 --> 00:12:46,024
software, there's an unlimited number of
different BBS software programmes, and
138
00:12:46,024 --> 00:12:50,663
extensions, and modifications thereof, a
lot of them are freeware or shareware.
139
00:12:50,663 --> 00:12:55,785
Some of them are public domain, some
actual free software, some are
140
00:12:55,785 --> 00:13:00,741
proprietary. For any operating system, for
any computer architecture, people were
141
00:13:00,741 --> 00:13:09,143
writing BBS software. Whether you had an
Amiga or Atari or you had Apple or DOS PCs
142
00:13:09,143 --> 00:13:16,883
or you name it, software was written, by
hobbyists primarily. One concept that you
143
00:13:16,883 --> 00:13:21,861
will find in BBSs is the concept of so-
called doors. You can think of it as
144
00:13:21,861 --> 00:13:27,713
similar to CGIs in web. So basically, the
BBS software could call an external
145
00:13:27,713 --> 00:13:32,639
programme, which would then take over the
input and output to and from the user. So
146
00:13:32,639 --> 00:13:36,668
you could have sort of plugins to your BBS
software which would add additional new
147
00:13:36,668 --> 00:13:44,865
games or add chat software or messaging or
whatever. On the user side you had a
148
00:13:44,865 --> 00:13:50,897
primarily so-called terminal program. It's
called terminal program because actually
149
00:13:50,897 --> 00:13:57,399
it emulates a serial terminal, which is a
dedicated hardware device with a keyboard
150
00:13:57,399 --> 00:14:02,397
and a screen and a serial line, but not a
general-purpose computer and in order to
151
00:14:02,397 --> 00:14:07,448
make a general-purpose computer behave
like a terminal you had a terminal program
152
00:14:07,448 --> 00:14:12,982
on dos which I was using at the time. It's
primarily telex and telemate I think were
153
00:14:12,982 --> 00:14:20,668
the favorite ones at least on this side of
the planet and you started that program,
154
00:14:20,668 --> 00:14:25,333
you had a serial port, the serial port
attached to your modem and from there you
155
00:14:25,333 --> 00:14:29,350
dialed and the terminal program then was
responsible for displaying the texts and
156
00:14:29,350 --> 00:14:34,932
the ANSI graphics and so on and exchanging
files of a variety of different protocols,
157
00:14:34,932 --> 00:14:42,419
which we will also cover later but before
we go on let's do a quick demo of how this
158
00:14:42,419 --> 00:14:48,809
looks like. Now as a note I don't have a
modem here I'm not emulating a modem I'm
159
00:14:48,809 --> 00:14:54,507
not emulating a serial port, these days
you can get the same experience by using
160
00:14:54,507 --> 00:14:59,466
telnet over the internet but you can
actually telnet into BBSs, I just want to
161
00:14:59,466 --> 00:15:10,488
basically show how it looks like. So this
is the terminal program and we have now
162
00:15:10,488 --> 00:15:15,758
connected to the BBS this is sort of a
introductory graphic that we see before
163
00:15:15,758 --> 00:15:22,465
even logging into the the box yeah some...
of course the scrolling was much slower
164
00:15:22,465 --> 00:15:29,655
back then, so now we can scroll back up to
actually see what was there. Yes, some
165
00:15:29,655 --> 00:15:33,893
more graphics. You still haven't seen the
login prompt yet, as you can see a fairly
166
00:15:33,893 --> 00:15:39,919
graphics heavy BBS. Then you can choose
the theme of the BBS, a user interface,
167
00:15:39,919 --> 00:15:48,617
I'm going to go for the classic ANSI here.
Finally, I come to a login screen and I
168
00:15:48,617 --> 00:15:57,915
can log into the system where I have to
enter my handle and the password which is
169
00:15:57,915 --> 00:16:03,774
now in clear-text over telnet. For those
of you interested in this, not that
170
00:16:03,774 --> 00:16:07,380
there's anything useful I just registered
this morning at the BBS so there's nothing
171
00:16:07,380 --> 00:16:13,637
associated with this account. Yeah some
more graphics. Finally, we are at a
172
00:16:13,637 --> 00:16:19,862
message board and we see as I said I just
logged in or registered this BBS today. We
173
00:16:19,862 --> 00:16:26,504
see there is a message number one from
Hawk Hubbard, "Welcome", so if I want to
174
00:16:26,504 --> 00:16:31,176
look at that message I could basically say
"I want to read it now". This is the
175
00:16:31,176 --> 00:16:36,284
message reader I go in here, then here,
"Welcome to forge" and so on.. So he
176
00:16:36,284 --> 00:16:45,242
welcomes me to the BBS now let's go to the
main menu of the BBS, which in this case
177
00:16:45,242 --> 00:16:53,704
looks like that and you have different...
the file areas, where you can download
178
00:16:53,704 --> 00:16:57,760
files, you have the door games that I
mentioned, you have an ANSI gallery, a BBS
179
00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:02,878
list, you can look at the last callers who
has called this mailbox and you can see
180
00:17:02,878 --> 00:17:08,443
this... Well, yeah three test calls from
me this morning, but you can see actually
181
00:17:08,443 --> 00:17:14,429
other people are still logging into this
BBS and it's 2017, so it's not... to me
182
00:17:14,429 --> 00:17:18,491
this is mostly history but during the
preparation of this talk I discovered that
183
00:17:18,491 --> 00:17:22,502
some people, for some people it is still
the present and I'm very happy to see
184
00:17:22,502 --> 00:17:28,076
there's still such an active community
around BBSs and which enables me to show
185
00:17:28,076 --> 00:17:33,963
all of this without firing up some
emulators and so on. So yeah, we also can
186
00:17:33,963 --> 00:17:40,095
look at one-liners, here's some messages
that people can leave to other people,
187
00:17:40,095 --> 00:17:46,314
other users in the BBS, again with some
quite a graphical... We don't want to
188
00:17:46,314 --> 00:17:52,265
leave any additional words here, but what for
example we can look at the ANSI gallery
189
00:17:52,265 --> 00:17:58,325
just very quickly, can try to select
something here, I have no idea what I'm
190
00:17:58,325 --> 00:18:06,980
looking at so... Ok... so here you have a
sort of a viewer that, yeah... So it will
191
00:18:06,980 --> 00:18:17,140
show you the sections of a sort of longer
artwork in this particular case... Yeah...
192
00:18:17,140 --> 00:18:25,454
well... And the artwork... to me there
always was a lot of similarity between the
193
00:18:25,454 --> 00:18:36,604
sort of, between the ANSI art artists and
the people doing... Now I'm lacking the
194
00:18:36,604 --> 00:18:42,829
word, street art basically I think there's
a lot of similarity between that. Okay
195
00:18:42,829 --> 00:18:46,479
good, that was just a very quick demo of
course I could now look at more messages
196
00:18:46,479 --> 00:18:52,618
and write messages and play blackjack and
do whatever I want, which I don't in this
197
00:18:52,618 --> 00:18:58,512
case, so we will log off. And again some
more graphics and you can leave a comment
198
00:18:58,512 --> 00:19:05,112
to the sysop if you want or you can just
basically... Log of... Ok, that for a very
199
00:19:05,112 --> 00:19:10,240
quick demo of the look and feel. Now since
I'm such a technical person and looking at
200
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:15,288
protocol stacks, I tried to draw a
protocol stack diagram for BBSs, which
201
00:19:15,288 --> 00:19:20,036
ended up at this. So basically at the
lower layers we have the pots, the plain
202
00:19:20,036 --> 00:19:25,525
old telephony system or ISDN, which we
will get to in a few slides. We had modems
203
00:19:25,525 --> 00:19:30,440
on the analogue telephone system, we had
other things on ISDN. In the end at some
204
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:35,800
point you always have rs-232, a serial
port, either emulated or real, and then
205
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,670
either you had a terminal program directly
on top of that or, for example to transfer
206
00:19:40,670 --> 00:19:46,689
files, you have used X modem or Y modem or
Z modem, which added error correction and
207
00:19:46,689 --> 00:19:50,408
retransmission and block transmission so
you could safely transfer files without,
208
00:19:50,408 --> 00:19:58,365
or at least with less, corruption. The
checksum algorithms were not so scientific
209
00:19:58,365 --> 00:20:05,554
in many cases. Here we then have well some
other things, FTN, Point what does that,
210
00:20:05,554 --> 00:20:10,030
UUCP we will cover that later. Basically
you could run different protocols and
211
00:20:10,030 --> 00:20:14,500
different systems on top of that. One
curiosity that I still want to mention is
212
00:20:14,500 --> 00:20:20,200
that, which I actually I forgot until on
Twitter somebody reminded me a couple of
213
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:25,599
days ago that this existed, and I went "oh
yes, RIPterm, I used that quite some time
214
00:20:25,599 --> 00:20:32,000
ago", so instead of having these text-
based user interfaces some people, company
215
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:38,147
called TeleGrafix came up with a language
called RIPscript which was a fairly
216
00:20:38,147 --> 00:20:45,080
compact language of textual commands, by
which the BTS could control a vector
217
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:49,142
graphic renderer on the client side in
your terminal program, and you could
218
00:20:49,142 --> 00:20:54,502
actually draw VGA resolution graphics like
the one that's presented here on the slide
219
00:20:54,502 --> 00:21:00,770
from the VBS on the screen of the user,
which was quite a big change compared to
220
00:21:00,770 --> 00:21:08,522
the ASCII art or ANSI art that you've seen
before. Yeah, so we're still at BBSs and
221
00:21:08,522 --> 00:21:12,599
BBSs that are isolated, so you can
participate in those bulletin boards and
222
00:21:12,599 --> 00:21:16,880
you can read and write messages and
exchange ideas and recipes and thoughts
223
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:22,161
and cheat codes and whatever you want to
exchange. Users log in at different times,
224
00:21:22,161 --> 00:21:27,991
the BBS is busy if it has only a single
line while it's being used by some other
225
00:21:27,991 --> 00:21:32,314
user. Of course you can add as a BBS
operator, as the sysop, you can add more
226
00:21:32,314 --> 00:21:37,473
modems and more phone lines, which is of
course expensive, together with the multi-
227
00:21:37,473 --> 00:21:43,134
port serial cards and and everything that
was required. You can have time limits for
228
00:21:43,134 --> 00:21:49,140
each user, but in the end it's sort of,
there's a limit to how far you can scale a
229
00:21:49,140 --> 00:21:57,879
single BTS sort of - not a BTS, a BBS,
jeez, a single BBS... Well also there's a
230
00:21:57,879 --> 00:22:04,235
scalability limit for BTSs, but that's
another talk, so, yeah. Which brings us to
231
00:22:04,235 --> 00:22:11,750
one method of more efficiently engaging
with BBSs for exchanging messages which is
232
00:22:11,750 --> 00:22:18,040
a concept of points or offline message
reading. So as we have just seen in this
233
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:26,416
example we log in to the VP... the BBS and we
have an online interactive session with
234
00:22:26,416 --> 00:22:29,904
the BBS while we read and write the
messages and of course it means we occupy
235
00:22:29,904 --> 00:22:36,477
the telephone line for an extended period
of time and it's not used very efficiently
236
00:22:36,477 --> 00:22:41,154
because humans typically read slower than
at least a fourteen point four or twenty
237
00:22:41,154 --> 00:22:48,372
eight kilobits per second. So people
invented something called points or
238
00:22:48,372 --> 00:22:52,198
offline message reading and different
concepts different systems different
239
00:22:52,198 --> 00:22:57,142
standards different technologies. What
they did in the end is they compressed and
240
00:22:57,142 --> 00:23:04,890
batched all the messages for you into
files and you on your client-side you were
241
00:23:04,890 --> 00:23:08,596
writing your messages offline and also
compressing and batching the messages that
242
00:23:08,596 --> 00:23:12,662
you've written and then you make a call,
you quickly exchange those files in both
243
00:23:12,662 --> 00:23:18,603
directions even in full duplex if the
system supports it and then you terminate
244
00:23:18,603 --> 00:23:23,185
the connection again. So during a very
short call you can exchange much more, many
245
00:23:23,185 --> 00:23:27,500
more messages and you have all the time to
read through those messages without having
246
00:23:27,500 --> 00:23:33,030
to look at the phone meter or your phone
bill all the time. So, more scalability,
247
00:23:33,030 --> 00:23:37,829
more users, shorter connection time, lower
cost for everyone involved. Definitely an
248
00:23:37,829 --> 00:23:45,314
interesting technology, but still sort of
scalability is limited of a single BTS
249
00:23:45,314 --> 00:23:52,334
which, eh, BBS which brings us to BBS
networks, store-and-forward networks which
250
00:23:52,334 --> 00:24:00,437
basically extended the ability to exchange
messages beyond a single BBS, but so
251
00:24:00,437 --> 00:24:04,890
basically the bulletin boards or the
message groups that you had at a BBS were
252
00:24:04,890 --> 00:24:09,578
replicated over different protocols that
were invented by various different people
253
00:24:09,578 --> 00:24:16,281
over time, so not only one BBS had all the
messages of a given bulletin board but all
254
00:24:16,281 --> 00:24:21,526
the other BBSs participating also were
receiving these messages and replicating
255
00:24:21,526 --> 00:24:28,884
them all over the network. Also for
personal mail, which is like email, right,
256
00:24:28,884 --> 00:24:35,444
between two participants, you could route
those messages across the network. The two
257
00:24:35,444 --> 00:24:40,276
users exchanging messages didn't have to
connect to the same BBS anymore. So much
258
00:24:40,276 --> 00:24:45,440
more scalability and also you could use it
efficiently for message routing to reduce
259
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:51,660
the need for long distance calls and so
on. So let's look at a couple of these BBS
260
00:24:51,660 --> 00:24:58,776
networks and the technologies they used.
One large and very popular example of
261
00:24:58,776 --> 00:25:05,302
course is the Fido Network which consists
of two parts, net mail and echo mail.
262
00:25:05,302 --> 00:25:12,750
Net mail is the private personal mail and echo
mail are public message boards or message
263
00:25:12,750 --> 00:25:19,651
groups. Fido had some, the technology used
by Fido called FTN Fido technology
264
00:25:19,651 --> 00:25:24,062
networks were used also by other networks.
They were using the same protocols, but
265
00:25:24,062 --> 00:25:30,110
they were not the same group of BBSs or
the same content and so on. Treknet for
266
00:25:30,110 --> 00:25:35,880
Star Trek fans was one, Gernet in Germany
was an example for that. And there also
267
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:42,368
were other technologies and other networks
such as Z-Netz, where they called it
268
00:25:42,368 --> 00:25:49,190
"Bretter" actually, so boards, the
individual message groups. And again they
269
00:25:49,190 --> 00:25:53,929
had other offsprings that used the same
technology but have different groups and
270
00:25:53,929 --> 00:25:59,460
different policies and different
structures such as T-Netz or CL-Netz. And
271
00:25:59,460 --> 00:26:08,328
then there was the big faction of people
who did UUCP, the UNIX to UNIX copy, which
272
00:26:08,328 --> 00:26:13,180
we will look at a little bit. And MausNet
is another german example here originating
273
00:26:13,180 --> 00:26:21,363
from the city of Muenster, which was used
to up to 120 BBSs here. Let's look at Fido
274
00:26:21,363 --> 00:26:28,717
a little bit more. Started allegedly in
1984. Of course I was not involved at that
275
00:26:28,717 --> 00:26:37,644
time at the age of 5. It reached a limit
of 250 nodes in 1985 because apparently, I
276
00:26:37,644 --> 00:26:41,911
suppose probably, a single integer UINT8
was used for the node number or something
277
00:26:41,911 --> 00:26:45,992
like that and then about 250 should be
sufficient for everyone. I don't know what
278
00:26:45,992 --> 00:26:51,239
the other 5 are for. And then they
introduced in '86 hierarchic regional
279
00:26:51,239 --> 00:26:57,984
routing and addressing that was more
scalable and in the end at the peak of the
280
00:26:57,984 --> 00:27:06,384
Fido net propagation it was 39,000 nodes;
that's BBSs not individual users but
281
00:27:06,384 --> 00:27:12,199
39,000 BBSs were interconnected with an
estimated 2 million users worldwide and
282
00:27:12,199 --> 00:27:18,882
that's for a you know hobbyist amateur
network is I think quite impressive.
283
00:27:18,882 --> 00:27:23,862
The addresses looked like this. That's
actually a node number that I used around
284
00:27:23,862 --> 00:27:33,019
'95 in Nuremberg at the time. Z-Netz
started as Zerberus-Netz - and I'm not
285
00:27:33,019 --> 00:27:37,340
sure if padeluun or Rena or any of the
people involved in the audience if then I
286
00:27:37,340 --> 00:27:45,608
hope I represent the history correctly -
which is a network technology created in
287
00:27:45,608 --> 00:27:50,827
Germany. The standards are inspired but
different than the Usenet and UUCP
288
00:27:50,827 --> 00:27:54,785
protocols and there were all kinds of
flame war about who understood the specs
289
00:27:54,785 --> 00:27:59,567
wrong and whether there's an improvement
between ZConnect compared to the Usenet
290
00:27:59,567 --> 00:28:05,855
standards or not. But anyway it was
different and there was one program called
291
00:28:05,855 --> 00:28:09,980
CrossPoint which was the most popular
point software at the time I think at
292
00:28:09,980 --> 00:28:15,739
least on DOS for Z-Netz and also for other
technologies. The screenshot here at the
293
00:28:15,739 --> 00:28:21,138
bottom actually is a cross point
screenshot. And cross point in the early
294
00:28:21,138 --> 00:28:28,015
90s already had features that I'm still
missing today in any email client that I
295
00:28:28,015 --> 00:28:35,824
have found. Right? Imagine you have a
thread that crosses multiple folders,
296
00:28:35,824 --> 00:28:42,204
multiple news groups, multiple whatever
and you have threading like the tree of
297
00:28:42,204 --> 00:28:46,038
the thread across folders and news groups
and so on. I mean that's something that
298
00:28:46,038 --> 00:28:50,397
you cannot do with any of the
software still today. Maybe you have you
299
00:28:50,397 --> 00:28:54,600
have an answer which software today
supports this but for sure nothing I have
300
00:28:54,600 --> 00:29:00,143
found has the kind of features and
functionality. Unfortunately it was
301
00:29:00,143 --> 00:29:06,540
written in Pascal and it had a line length
limit of 255 characters per line which
302
00:29:06,540 --> 00:29:10,687
made it not very compatible to Usenet
standards where lines could have different
303
00:29:10,687 --> 00:29:17,883
lengths so one couldn't continue to use it
in today's time and age at least not
304
00:29:17,883 --> 00:29:29,633
easily. Usenet is another network of these
BBS days where messages were exchanged by
305
00:29:29,633 --> 00:29:35,379
a system called UNIX to UNIX copy. UNIX to
UNIX copy predates the Usenet it was used,
306
00:29:35,379 --> 00:29:39,341
well as the name implies, to copy
something between UNIX machines - file
307
00:29:39,341 --> 00:29:44,016
copying - and some of those files that
people were copying were internet mail at
308
00:29:44,016 --> 00:29:51,123
the time. And then the Usenet news format
was invented. The format is quite similar
309
00:29:51,123 --> 00:29:55,730
to internet mail, which we still know
today, but it's not a personal mail
310
00:29:55,730 --> 00:30:00,805
between person A and person B, but it, you
could post it to a so-called news group
311
00:30:00,805 --> 00:30:06,099
and there was a hierarchy of news groups
which replicated and flooded messages
312
00:30:06,099 --> 00:30:11,412
across the entire network, across the
globe. And it was a flooding mechanism
313
00:30:11,412 --> 00:30:17,199
involve to make sure that the messages get
replicated and the duplicates get detected
314
00:30:17,199 --> 00:30:23,432
and duplicates are not basically
transmitted again or rather shown again
315
00:30:23,432 --> 00:30:32,660
and so on. The routing was originally
defined in route maps in UUCP which is a
316
00:30:32,660 --> 00:30:39,777
quite a bit odd over time because it's
basically a static source based routing
317
00:30:39,777 --> 00:30:46,174
for the UUCP mails. News as I said
they were flooding anyway. Usenet was
318
00:30:46,174 --> 00:30:53,119
quite popular until well into the 90s. I
was news master of two news servers for
319
00:30:53,119 --> 00:30:58,411
some time basically doing system
administration of those boxes. And just to
320
00:30:58,411 --> 00:31:02,869
give you an anecdote again; into this
context we will get to Kommunikationsnetz
321
00:31:02,869 --> 00:31:07,833
Franken, which is a nonprofit organization
in the area of Franconia in southern
322
00:31:07,833 --> 00:31:14,713
Germany, where I was active. And at the
time internet - like when we actually got
323
00:31:14,713 --> 00:31:21,233
to IP, at some point, IP traffic was so
expensive that it was rather difficult to
324
00:31:21,233 --> 00:31:25,729
get a full newsfeed over IP because you've
wasted a lot of your expensive bandwidth -
325
00:31:25,729 --> 00:31:30,928
wasted in quotes - but you used it for
news and so what we did actually is, we
326
00:31:30,928 --> 00:31:36,051
put up a satellite dish at a building in
Nuremberg and we had satellite feeds from
327
00:31:36,051 --> 00:31:42,287
the US. So there were US companies that
were streaming compressed Usenet batches
328
00:31:42,287 --> 00:31:48,175
up to a geostationary satellite which has
a downlink over Europe and then we got two
329
00:31:48,175 --> 00:31:54,790
megabits of compressed batched news net
news in, I would say, let's say 95ish or
330
00:31:54,790 --> 00:32:00,350
something like that, so that was
definitely a big improvement. So we we had
331
00:32:00,350 --> 00:32:07,581
a full news feed coming directly from the
US without having to pay for all the
332
00:32:07,581 --> 00:32:12,475
International data transfer. Another
curiosity is the Floppy Poll/Point. Now
333
00:32:12,475 --> 00:32:19,157
nobody is laughing yet. Well not everyone
had phone lines in the 90s, particularly
334
00:32:19,157 --> 00:32:23,910
in eastern Germany. Phone lines were still
a rare commodity after reunification
335
00:32:23,910 --> 00:32:28,976
happened in 90. It took some time until
people could get connected to the
336
00:32:28,976 --> 00:32:33,159
telephone network. And so what people did
is actually they exchanged daily floppies
337
00:32:33,159 --> 00:32:38,560
by postal mail. So basically rather than
sending your compressed batches of
338
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:46,429
messages over modems, because well for a
modem you need phone lines, you put a
339
00:32:46,429 --> 00:32:53,147
floppy - I would assume 3.5 inch at the
time, not so much four and a quarter inch
340
00:32:53,147 --> 00:33:01,333
- but you put a floppy in an envelope you
send it to your BBS and the guy
341
00:33:01,333 --> 00:33:05,927
opens the envelope and puts it in the BBS
and he sends you a floppy in return. So
342
00:33:05,927 --> 00:33:09,060
you add one day or something to your
transmission but then well the
343
00:33:09,060 --> 00:33:13,708
transmission speed of messages in those
networks at the time was sort of one to
344
00:33:13,708 --> 00:33:17,685
two days or maybe even three days anyway
so if you add another day what does it
345
00:33:17,685 --> 00:33:23,750
matter? It was such a big advantage that
you could get messages like worldwide
346
00:33:23,750 --> 00:33:30,895
messages at all in such a short time and
for basically no cost whatsoever. Okay
347
00:33:30,895 --> 00:33:37,639
getting to the internet, yeah. How did I
start to access Internet, how did people
348
00:33:37,639 --> 00:33:41,939
start to access the Internet at the time?
Well mail and news was sort of the
349
00:33:41,939 --> 00:33:52,571
Internet in the beginning via UUCP, which
is nice and fine, but it's not IP, yet. So
350
00:33:52,571 --> 00:33:56,880
what you could do is you could, instead of
dialing into a BBS, you could of course
351
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:02,554
use your modem to dial to the serial port
of the TTY of any UNIX machine that's
352
00:34:02,554 --> 00:34:06,151
somewhere else. If you have a UNIX
workstation somewhere, that's connected to
353
00:34:06,151 --> 00:34:12,482
an IP network using 10base2 or whatever
was the network technology at the time or
354
00:34:12,482 --> 00:34:20,775
FDDI or whatever, x21... then you could
attach a modem to a serial part of such a
355
00:34:20,775 --> 00:34:26,105
UNIX box and you just get the login prompt
when you connect with the modem to that
356
00:34:26,105 --> 00:34:30,451
box. Like you sit in front of your Linux
system today, you have your login prompt.
357
00:34:30,451 --> 00:34:35,851
And then on that workstation you basically
you could remotely use that workstation
358
00:34:35,851 --> 00:34:41,160
and then you could run FTP clients or IRC
clients or telnet, gopher, whatever on the
359
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:48,862
text console. That was mostly available to
people in the academic sector of course
360
00:34:48,862 --> 00:34:53,700
because they had some UNIX machines at
universities. I was too young to be at
361
00:34:53,700 --> 00:34:59,860
university, so I had to use FTP mailers
for quite some time. So what's an FTP
362
00:34:59,860 --> 00:35:03,802
mailer? Well it's basically some FTP
client that runs on a remote machine
363
00:35:03,802 --> 00:35:07,747
somewhere that's connected to the Internet
and that has email access and you can use
364
00:35:07,747 --> 00:35:13,345
input/output over email. So if you want to
FTP to some FTP server you send an email.
365
00:35:13,345 --> 00:35:19,847
It says "ftp ftp." and an "ls" and
then some hours later you get a response
366
00:35:19,847 --> 00:35:25,649
with the list of the files, yeah? And then
after you've got the list of the files you
367
00:35:25,649 --> 00:35:30,394
do the first CD to change into a directory
and then you get again the response. And
368
00:35:30,394 --> 00:35:34,556
then finally you know which file you want
so you issue a get command over the file
369
00:35:34,556 --> 00:35:41,516
and then you get this long series of
UUencoded mails. UUencode is a method of
370
00:35:41,516 --> 00:35:50,271
sending binary 8-bit messages over mails
before MIME existed. The MIME format which
371
00:35:50,271 --> 00:35:54,245
we use today for email attachments and so
on. That didn't exist at the time, so it
372
00:35:54,245 --> 00:35:58,366
was UUencode before, so yeah. So hours or
days later you got that and it
373
00:35:58,366 --> 00:36:04,460
worked perfectly fine, I mean, I was quite
happy to be able to use that at the time.
374
00:36:04,460 --> 00:36:09,783
Now, then, if you had dial-up access to
UNIX boxes, you could also do something
375
00:36:09,783 --> 00:36:19,216
called SLIP, which is a serial line IP. So
you could transport IP over the modem line
376
00:36:19,216 --> 00:36:26,662
and as a result you have IP at home in
your apartment! Unbelievable! it was later
377
00:36:26,662 --> 00:36:30,518
superseded by PPP which introduced
features such as auto-configuration,
378
00:36:30,518 --> 00:36:34,554
authentication, compression and so on -
well there was a compressed SLIP, but yeah
379
00:36:34,554 --> 00:36:39,811
not quite as compressed as PPP - and
popular software stack at the time - and
380
00:36:39,811 --> 00:36:47,412
I'm talking about early 90s, mid-90s - is
basically Trumpet Winsock on Windows with
381
00:36:47,412 --> 00:36:52,441
NCSA Mosaic as a browser, because Windows
back then didn't have TCP/IP, so you had
382
00:36:52,441 --> 00:36:59,356
to install another package to actually
have TCP/IP on Windows at the time. If
383
00:36:59,356 --> 00:37:03,506
you didn't have Windows, I will get to
that, and I'm talking about the pre-Linux
384
00:37:03,506 --> 00:37:09,120
days here. So what did you do if you
wanted to do internet on a PC before Linux
385
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:14,257
was around? I didn't have a 386 initially,
I had a 286. And on a 286 of course you
386
00:37:14,257 --> 00:37:18,396
couldn't run any multitasking operating
system because it doesn't have a real
387
00:37:18,396 --> 00:37:24,444
protected mode. So no Linux, no BSD, but
there was something called KA9Q NOS. And
388
00:37:24,444 --> 00:37:29,525
now I want to see hands: who has ever
heard of or used KA9Q NOS? Yeah! Ok...
389
00:37:29,525 --> 00:37:34,169
laughs
Audience member shouts: It is a person's
390
00:37:34,169 --> 00:37:36,799
callsign.
LaForge: Yes, "It's a person's callsign"
391
00:37:36,799 --> 00:37:41,966
was the comment from the audience, this is
correct. KA9Q is Phil Karn in the US and
392
00:37:41,966 --> 00:37:47,135
he wrote a network operating system the
KA9Q NOS, the network operating system.
393
00:37:47,135 --> 00:37:51,683
And it is an implementation of - he
started actually in the 80s with this on
394
00:37:51,683 --> 00:37:56,645
CPM and then later ported it to DOS - and
it implements TCP/IP, SLIP, PPP including
395
00:37:56,645 --> 00:38:02,368
POP3 server, SMTP server + client, IP
routing, telnet, ARP and so on. And you
396
00:38:02,368 --> 00:38:08,150
could do all this on DOS. I used it quite
a lot at my home. You could do routing and
397
00:38:08,150 --> 00:38:13,336
you had multiple applications at the same
time all on top of DOS. It was a fantastic
398
00:38:13,336 --> 00:38:20,132
piece of software. And then you could
build a router to ethernet and you could
399
00:38:20,132 --> 00:38:24,290
have multiple other machines in your home
and you have more and more cable in your
400
00:38:24,290 --> 00:38:30,101
home. And more and more connected machines,
yeah, actually, yeah we will get to that, ok.
401
00:38:30,101 --> 00:38:37,088
PPP superseded that. At some point ISDN
came around, particularly in Germany. ISDN
402
00:38:37,088 --> 00:38:41,072
is the digital version of telephony
system, so instead of having analog
403
00:38:41,072 --> 00:38:48,154
circuits you now transfer digital bits.
That could be audio, digitized audio, but
404
00:38:48,154 --> 00:38:53,351
of course it could be any other
transparent digital data. In Germany ISDN
405
00:38:53,351 --> 00:39:00,509
was first put in operation in 1989. Until
'93 it used a German protocol standard
406
00:39:00,509 --> 00:39:06,141
called 1TR6, and from '94 onwards the
European E-DSS1 protocol standard was
407
00:39:06,141 --> 00:39:13,347
available. It was hugely popularized from
1995 onwards by subsidies. So at the time
408
00:39:13,347 --> 00:39:20,161
if you actually ordered an ISDN connection
and at the same time you bought a, let's
409
00:39:20,161 --> 00:39:26,271
say a small PBX or a phone or a modem or
something like that, you could [get]
410
00:39:26,271 --> 00:39:33,531
subsidies from Deutsche Telekom. So, I
think it went up to 700 marks - not sure
411
00:39:33,531 --> 00:39:39,562
if somebody remembers the exact figures -
and so you've got quite a bit of money to
412
00:39:39,562 --> 00:39:44,448
buy equipment to switch to this new
technology. So when ISDN you don't have a
413
00:39:44,448 --> 00:39:48,815
modem because there's nothing to modulate
or demodulate, it's digital, so it's
414
00:39:48,815 --> 00:39:56,548
called a terminal adapter, and it adapts
the bitstream, the synchronous serial
415
00:39:56,548 --> 00:40:04,582
bitstream of the ISDN to your operating
system or your computer and there was
416
00:40:04,582 --> 00:40:09,060
something called V.110 as a rate
adaptation to do asynchronous serial like
417
00:40:09,060 --> 00:40:17,130
RS-232, sort of, over a synchronous ISDN.
Okay and how did we get internet access?
418
00:40:17,130 --> 00:40:22,699
Well, it was, if you were not in academia
or something like that, there were a few
419
00:40:22,699 --> 00:40:27,986
commercial ISPs like XLink or EUnet. They
were very expensive and of course you
420
00:40:27,986 --> 00:40:34,235
didn't have local dial-in in all the
different cities around Germany, but you
421
00:40:34,235 --> 00:40:38,954
had grassroot groups of enthusiasts that
established themselves in some
422
00:40:38,954 --> 00:40:46,592
associations to make sure the members can
get internet access. In my region in
423
00:40:46,592 --> 00:40:52,440
Nuremberg Kommunikationsnetz Franken was
particularly active. They started with
424
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:57,664
dial-up UUCP services and later IP for
non-commercial users - and I have to say
425
00:40:57,664 --> 00:41:04,045
with an extremely high technical standard
which I'm still fascinated by today.
426
00:41:04,045 --> 00:41:08,126
Kommunikationsnetz Franken had points of
presence in various different cities in
427
00:41:08,126 --> 00:41:12,390
the region because not everybody could
call to Nuremberg as a local call and
428
00:41:12,390 --> 00:41:18,080
every user got six static IP addresses,
routed to wherever he dialed in. The use of
429
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:23,238
OSPF in the mid-1990s to make sure you
have static IP addresses wherever you dial
430
00:41:23,238 --> 00:41:28,746
in. Some people still don't have that in
2017 and I'm not even talking about the
431
00:41:28,746 --> 00:41:35,354
static IP addresses, but anyway. So about
800 users peak at that association at the
432
00:41:35,354 --> 00:41:41,624
time. And there was an umbrella
organization called "Individual Network
433
00:41:41,624 --> 00:41:49,148
e.V." (IN). This was established.
Individuals could not become members in
434
00:41:49,148 --> 00:41:52,380
that association so it's - the name is a
bit interesting - it's called Individual
435
00:41:52,380 --> 00:41:56,498
Network, because it's about networking for
individuals, but the members were the
436
00:41:56,498 --> 00:42:00,970
regional associations such as
Kommunikationsnetz Franken, who then
437
00:42:00,970 --> 00:42:07,480
basically used this umbrella entity to
negotiate decent rates to get internet
438
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:12,904
connectivity and so on. And apparently the
IN members served more than three hundred
439
00:42:12,904 --> 00:42:17,660
thousand users at some point - so it
scaled quite a bit - was dissolved in 2000
440
00:42:17,660 --> 00:42:22,170
when lots of commercialized ISPs were
around and also when the remaining member
441
00:42:22,170 --> 00:42:26,740
entities, which many of which still exist
today such as Kommunikationsnetz Franken,
442
00:42:26,740 --> 00:42:31,640
they didn't need this umbrella entity to
get decent internet rates or tariffs
443
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:37,740
again. So, with packets which TCP/IP we
just need one number that we call at some
444
00:42:37,740 --> 00:42:41,580
point We're not dialing into hundreds of
different BBS's anymore but we're actually
445
00:42:41,580 --> 00:42:47,347
connecting always to the same number which
is our ISP, and then when we have that
446
00:42:47,347 --> 00:42:52,349
connection we exchange packet data with
systems worldwide which brought new
447
00:42:52,349 --> 00:42:57,634
purpose to lease lines. Analog leased
lines were basically telephone lines that
448
00:42:57,634 --> 00:43:02,810
were permanently switched, or actually
permanently wired at the exchange. So you
449
00:43:02,810 --> 00:43:06,963
had two wires of copper between one
location and another location and they
450
00:43:06,963 --> 00:43:10,514
were physically connected you could apply
a DC voltage and the DC voltage would come
451
00:43:10,514 --> 00:43:16,617
out at the other end. You could get this
from Deutsche Post or Telekom at the time.
452
00:43:16,617 --> 00:43:23,626
When I could finally afford one in '98 for
900 marks installation cost and in my case
453
00:43:23,626 --> 00:43:31,000
180 marks per month, was sixty marks
per hop. Hop means: telephone exchange. So
454
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:35,105
if between the other end where you want to
connect to and where you are, are three
455
00:43:35,105 --> 00:43:40,000
telephone exchanges, you had three times
sixty marks or 180 marks per month. And
456
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,929
then I connected to a system that looked
like this, which is called the Hub
457
00:43:43,929 --> 00:43:48,532
Nuremburg of this Kommunikationsnetz
Franken, which is in the basement of one
458
00:43:48,532 --> 00:43:55,391
of the members. You have basically a PC
running Linux of FreeBSD, no it was BSD
459
00:43:55,391 --> 00:44:01,240
actually, with like a 16-port serial card
and various modems stacked on various
460
00:44:01,240 --> 00:44:05,955
shelves to interconnect all these
different leased lines and which then had
461
00:44:05,955 --> 00:44:11,987
one ISDN leased line with 128 kilobits to
some internet uplink. Yeah that's the
462
00:44:11,987 --> 00:44:20,324
obligatory ISDN network termination and
telephone sockets, which brings us to ISDN
463
00:44:20,324 --> 00:44:27,990
leased lines. There was a product called
SPV "Semi-Permanente Festverbindung",
464
00:44:27,990 --> 00:44:32,770
which is not really a leased line - it's
semi-permanent - and it's basically a
465
00:44:32,770 --> 00:44:37,630
flat-rate call to one specific destination
telephone number, which you could get in
466
00:44:37,630 --> 00:44:42,433
national 1TR6 ISDN and which was rather
inexpensive and what many people used who
467
00:44:42,433 --> 00:44:47,910
wanted more than the ISDN speeds. Okay I
have to speed up a bit, time is running
468
00:44:47,910 --> 00:44:52,505
out! The first step of abusing analog
lines, which we did, is by deploying a
469
00:44:52,505 --> 00:44:58,122
device called an ICU-T, which is the
inverse of an ISDN NTBA. So in ISDN you
470
00:44:58,122 --> 00:45:01,621
still have the telephone exchange and you
have a network termination, the NTBA, on
471
00:45:01,621 --> 00:45:09,290
your line. And basically the the ICU-T was
a single line telephone exchange side of
472
00:45:09,290 --> 00:45:13,040
this protocol. So you could use an analog
line which you normally used for analog
473
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:17,222
modems but you remove the two analog
modems you put an NTBA on one end, you put
474
00:45:17,222 --> 00:45:21,629
the ICU-T on the other end and suddenly we
can get 128 kilobits over that line which
475
00:45:21,629 --> 00:45:26,438
previously you could only do 33.6 without
having to pay any additional cents or
476
00:45:26,438 --> 00:45:31,435
money to Deutsche Telekom, of course. And
then there was some special ISDN routers
477
00:45:31,435 --> 00:45:35,953
which could use the signaling channel, the
16 kbps signaling D-channel on ISDN also
478
00:45:35,953 --> 00:45:41,944
for data, so you get 128 + 16 kilobytes of
data, because well, there's no signaling,
479
00:45:41,944 --> 00:45:46,024
you're not dialling anyone so you can as
well use that. Now this is sort of the
480
00:45:46,024 --> 00:45:50,480
hierarchy of the leased line
infrastructure at this entity. I'm not
481
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,632
showing every leased line here, but
basically I was at the upper left corner
482
00:45:54,632 --> 00:46:00,560
here connecting with 33.6 kbps to this hub
Nuremburg, which connects to 128K to a
483
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:04,949
machine in a Nuremberg building of the
University of Erlangen, which then
484
00:46:04,949 --> 00:46:09,250
connects over X21 to the University of
Erlangen, where then all kinds of other
485
00:46:09,250 --> 00:46:14,003
leased lines come together. That was the
the architecture of what we deployed
486
00:46:14,003 --> 00:46:18,330
there. Some more pictures: this is in
Fürth, a neighbor city of Nuremberg. The
487
00:46:18,330 --> 00:46:24,680
collection of telephone outlets and the
collection of modems and the machine - oh
488
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:29,488
there was, I'm missing one picture sorry
for that - anyway you can see a pile of
489
00:46:29,488 --> 00:46:34,220
modems here and some more modems here and
the machine over there. And then we went
490
00:46:34,220 --> 00:46:38,840
into phase two of abusing analog telephone
lines, when the first DSL modems came out.
491
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:45,809
So we imported some Ascend DSLpipes in '99
from the US and with some firmwares you
492
00:46:45,809 --> 00:46:49,602
could operate them back to back without
the DSLAM so basically you operate one DSL
493
00:46:49,602 --> 00:46:54,370
modem at one end of the leased line and
another DSL modem at the other end, and if
494
00:46:54,370 --> 00:46:58,260
you are close enough like with a single
hop at the single telephone exchange you
495
00:46:58,260 --> 00:47:04,300
could get up to 2.3 megabits symmetric
over your analog line. And that in 1999
496
00:47:04,300 --> 00:47:09,701
was quite a lot of speed, especially if
you're not paying for traffic or anything
497
00:47:09,701 --> 00:47:14,274
like that. Some less alternative, less
expensive one alternatives came out. Okay!
498
00:47:14,274 --> 00:47:24,500
Before I wrap up, a short detour or one
thing still to mention. Another phenomenon
499
00:47:24,500 --> 00:47:29,730
back then - I'm not sure if this happened
in other cities too - and in my area in
500
00:47:29,730 --> 00:47:35,041
Fürth we had an entity called Falcons
Maze, which was called an online bistro.
501
00:47:35,041 --> 00:47:41,726
I became a regular there around '94. They
initially had four DOS PCs, each of them
502
00:47:41,726 --> 00:47:46,884
with a modem and with a dedicated call-
charge meter. And you could basically go
503
00:47:46,884 --> 00:47:50,564
there, it's a cafe, you can have, you know
you can eat and drink and so on, and you
504
00:47:50,564 --> 00:47:55,614
can sit at the PC and you can then from
there dial into BBSs and basically do
505
00:47:55,614 --> 00:47:59,250
things if you didn't have a modem or a PC
at home. But the interesting part of
506
00:47:59,250 --> 00:48:02,862
course was that there all the other peoples
were hanging out, the other BBS users,
507
00:48:02,862 --> 00:48:08,810
sysops and so on. At some point the PCs
were networked with 10base2, so people
508
00:48:08,810 --> 00:48:14,457
could play doom when it came out, I think
in - not sure when it reached us in
509
00:48:14,457 --> 00:48:20,473
Germany - '94 maybe or so, and yeah. The
internet became more popular. It started
510
00:48:20,473 --> 00:48:26,320
subsidiaries and we set up ISDN SPVs, the
"semi-permanente Verbindung" as an
511
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:33,278
internet uplink from there, so that also,
I mean, you can find some sources that
512
00:48:33,278 --> 00:48:36,976
this apparently, allegedly was the first
internet cafe. I'm not sure if anyone else
513
00:48:36,976 --> 00:48:41,350
has contested that. Something like that.
Anyway, after lots of anecdotes I want to
514
00:48:41,350 --> 00:48:46,720
give you some time for Q&A. To summarize:
the first decades of wide area
515
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:51,510
communications were powered by a community
of enthusiasts or rather communities that
516
00:48:51,510 --> 00:48:56,359
were disjunct and not connected, largely
motivated by non-commercial motives. Of
517
00:48:56,359 --> 00:49:02,120
course there were commercial BBSs but by
far not without much corporate or
518
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:06,914
government influence, right? There was no
Google and there was no ministry that was
519
00:49:06,914 --> 00:49:12,583
putting censorship or something like that.
And the BBS community is a distinct
520
00:49:12,583 --> 00:49:18,370
subculture so it has different norms and
it has different values, different from
521
00:49:18,370 --> 00:49:22,557
the ham radio guys, different from free
software guys, of course some overlap, but
522
00:49:22,557 --> 00:49:28,337
still a separate community with separate
norms. What I personally think is the big
523
00:49:28,337 --> 00:49:37,124
loss, other than the loss of picture on
the screen, is that back then the networks
524
00:49:37,124 --> 00:49:40,500
were distributed. There was no single
point of failure. The infrastructure was
525
00:49:40,500 --> 00:49:45,286
owned and operated by its users, by
individuals. The connection speeds were
526
00:49:45,286 --> 00:49:50,493
symmetric and there was no, like, data
center versus consumer separation that we
527
00:49:50,493 --> 00:49:55,440
have in the internet day and age of today.
And that's, yes, I really think this
528
00:49:55,440 --> 00:50:02,590
autonomy and decentralization is a big
loss to society or the community as a
529
00:50:02,590 --> 00:50:07,854
whole. Ok, some pointers: if you want to
read up more or look at some ANSI artwork
530
00:50:07,854 --> 00:50:12,940
or log into BBSs, the telnet BBS guide I
can highly recommend that. You can also
531
00:50:12,940 --> 00:50:19,891
find the BBS I looked into. Ok, good.
Which brings us to the point where we can
532
00:50:19,891 --> 00:50:24,000
have some questions.
533
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:34,659
Applause
534
00:50:34,659 --> 00:50:40,930
Herald: The microphones here in, 3, 1, 2
and 4, but first we have questions from
535
00:50:40,930 --> 00:50:43,800
the signal angel. So what's the question for?
536
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,022
Signal Angel: The internet wants to know,
"What was the highest phone bill you ever
537
00:50:47,022 --> 00:50:51,978
got back then?"
LaForge: To be honest, I don't remember
538
00:50:51,978 --> 00:51:00,758
but for sure it was four digits. I'm quite
sure it was. It was quite devastating,
539
00:51:00,758 --> 00:51:04,590
yes.
Hearld: There is another question from the
540
00:51:04,590 --> 00:51:06,246
internet.
Signal Angel: And there's another
541
00:51:06,246 --> 00:51:12,924
question, "You mentioned that there are
very few books around those topics. Which
542
00:51:12,924 --> 00:51:16,774
ones would you recommend regarding BBS,
Usenet and so on?"
543
00:51:16,774 --> 00:51:22,263
LaForge: I cannot respond to this directly
I don't remember that. I can put it
544
00:51:22,263 --> 00:51:26,736
together and people can reach out to me
or I put it in the slides when I submit
545
00:51:26,736 --> 00:51:33,067
them into the frap system, sorry for that.
Herald: So we have a question from the
546
00:51:33,067 --> 00:51:38,019
microphone number two please.
Mic 2: Yes, back in the 90s most of the
547
00:51:38,019 --> 00:51:43,367
voice was uncompressed and actually
direct. Modern technologies usually, I
548
00:51:43,367 --> 00:51:48,054
think, voice always compressed transferred
over IP. Do you know for any modern
549
00:51:48,054 --> 00:51:53,390
modulation formats the text can survive
several codecs voice codecs or data
550
00:51:53,390 --> 00:51:57,199
transmission?
LaForge: I'm not the expert on that
551
00:51:57,199 --> 00:52:03,148
subject. I know there are some codecs,
yes, but they are extremely slow. So you
552
00:52:03,148 --> 00:52:10,442
are happy if you get something like 1200
or maybe 2400 bps of data through a modem
553
00:52:10,442 --> 00:52:14,687
that survives multiple codecs and then of
course always the question of which
554
00:52:14,687 --> 00:52:20,242
codecs.
Herald: Okay microphone number four
555
00:52:20,242 --> 00:52:22,570
please.
Mic 4: Okay I don't have a question to
556
00:52:22,570 --> 00:52:26,319
Herald actually, but thanks for the talk.
I would like to ask the audience because
557
00:52:26,319 --> 00:52:30,490
many, I think, users and operators of BBSs
are here. Who wants to meet this evening,
558
00:52:30,490 --> 00:52:34,944
at I would say nine o'clock, in one of the
seminar rooms for talk about the back old
559
00:52:34,944 --> 00:52:41,619
times? Yeah, so I will try to lock a self-
organized session at the seminar room
560
00:52:41,619 --> 00:52:46,333
1415, I think it's called, at 9 o'clock.
LaForge: Ok, thank you very much.
561
00:52:46,333 --> 00:52:49,472
Mic 4: So, see you there and talk about
the good days of and some more stories I
562
00:52:49,472 --> 00:52:52,228
think.
Herald: There are still more people
563
00:52:52,228 --> 00:52:59,525
queuing up. Microphone number 4, please.
Mic 4: I've got a question about the
564
00:52:59,525 --> 00:53:05,187
political bulletin board systems. Could
you tell us a bit about the CL-Net and the
565
00:53:05,187 --> 00:53:11,116
fascist clone the Thule-Net? What was the
dynamics back then and the fights? What
566
00:53:11,116 --> 00:53:16,682
were the conflicts in those boxes?
LaForge: I have to admit I cannot say too
567
00:53:16,682 --> 00:53:22,189
much about it. I know, of course, CL-Netz
was a network mainly for left-wing
568
00:53:22,189 --> 00:53:26,590
political activists and groups and yes
there was Thule-Netz, a right-wing
569
00:53:26,590 --> 00:53:29,780
Network, and I knew there was discussions
and so on and there were people trying to
570
00:53:29,780 --> 00:53:36,462
hack each other's mailboxes and so on,
but I was not participating or involved
571
00:53:36,462 --> 00:53:43,094
in these discussions to an extent that I
can really comment on it sorry.
572
00:53:43,094 --> 00:53:46,150
Herald: Microphone number one, please.
Mic 1: Hi Harald. I still remember when I
573
00:53:46,150 --> 00:53:50,750
started with an acoustic coupler. I did
that because there was a severe threat of
574
00:53:50,750 --> 00:53:55,486
punishment if you used an illegal modem at
the time from the Deutsche Bundespost. So
575
00:53:55,486 --> 00:54:00,010
I was actually never aware that a little
bit later you could actually do an end,
576
00:54:00,010 --> 00:54:05,552
back to back DSL modem connection over an
analogue exchange. So at that time you did
577
00:54:05,552 --> 00:54:09,950
that, what was the the punishment
situation from the Bundespost or whatever
578
00:54:09,950 --> 00:54:14,271
it was called at the time if they would
have ever caught you doing that? Do you
579
00:54:14,271 --> 00:54:17,010
remember?
LaForge: I have no clue. Yes, it sort of,
580
00:54:17,010 --> 00:54:25,363
and I mean the... How can I say? The the
criminal offense, I think, stopped in '92
581
00:54:25,363 --> 00:54:30,331
when Deutsche Post was privatized. So
until '92 it was a criminal offence to
582
00:54:30,331 --> 00:54:34,730
operate a non-approved modem at the German
telephone network, because was government
583
00:54:34,730 --> 00:54:39,825
owned. It was a crime, not a minor
offence. But afterwards I don't really
584
00:54:39,825 --> 00:54:44,850
know to be honest. I don't think anyone
bothered at the time and nobody, I mean
585
00:54:44,850 --> 00:54:49,994
the, we never had any trouble with these
DSL things and so on, that we did over
586
00:54:49,994 --> 00:54:53,823
analog circuits.
Herald: Microphone number two, please.
587
00:54:53,823 --> 00:54:58,725
Mic 2: Okay, hello I'm from Taiwan and I
just want to share something interesting
588
00:54:58,725 --> 00:55:05,200
for everyone. In Taiwan is a small country
in Asia. We are still using BBS. The
589
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:12,090
largest is named PTT and exported to use
SSH or WebSocket you can edit, and the
590
00:55:12,090 --> 00:55:16,580
source code is open available on GitHub.
Everybody can search it. Thank you.
591
00:55:16,580 --> 00:55:23,593
LaForge: Thank you very much. It's
actually not just for Taiwan, but you can
592
00:55:23,593 --> 00:55:27,870
find many, I mean maybe it's more popular
there still, but you can find many BBSs
593
00:55:27,870 --> 00:55:33,049
that are still in operation today in many
different countries even also with BBS
594
00:55:33,049 --> 00:55:38,240
software that's free software that's
maintained now on GitHub or on other
595
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:43,240
repositories with contributors and so on.
So the community still lives, but I think
596
00:55:43,240 --> 00:55:48,230
at least internationally it's very small
and I'm happy to hear if it's larger in
597
00:55:48,230 --> 00:55:52,480
some countries.
Herald: You have still time for questions.
598
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:57,820
Microphone number four, please.
Mic 4: So you talked about restoring
599
00:55:57,820 --> 00:56:05,181
decentralization. So, what old systems
would you like to see coming back?
600
00:56:05,181 --> 00:56:09,030
Something like the Usenet? I mean it's
still there, but you can't access it
601
00:56:09,030 --> 00:56:13,290
without paying a lot of money to some big
gateway. So, which technologies would you
602
00:56:13,290 --> 00:56:17,374
like to revive or do you think are
realistic to revive to have
603
00:56:17,374 --> 00:56:21,640
decentralization again?
LaForge: I don't think the technologies
604
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:26,248
necessarily need to be revived because
they are, to a large extent, old and
605
00:56:26,248 --> 00:56:32,902
people are smarter and the, how can I say,
the capacity and the computational
606
00:56:32,902 --> 00:56:37,141
complexity of what you can do today and so
on is much better. So we can have much
607
00:56:37,141 --> 00:56:42,576
better technology. But the thing that I
would like to see revived is more
608
00:56:42,576 --> 00:56:47,855
decentralization and more people operating
their own technology and that's just, I
609
00:56:47,855 --> 00:56:53,529
think, I don't really have a plan and I'm
not saying I have a vision I'm just saying
610
00:56:53,529 --> 00:56:58,620
it has a problem, this development, that
basically it's a consumer / producer model
611
00:56:58,620 --> 00:57:03,510
and especially with content delivery
networks and with attacks on network
612
00:57:03,510 --> 00:57:08,356
neutrality and and all these topics, it's
always moving in one direction. It's
613
00:57:08,356 --> 00:57:12,796
basically turning the user into a stupid
consumer and and making sure all the
614
00:57:12,796 --> 00:57:20,214
control and all the content, and so on, is
in the hand of large corporations.
615
00:57:20,214 --> 00:57:28,543
Applause
By the way, one interesting anecdote about
616
00:57:28,543 --> 00:57:33,644
the... I talked about the asymmetry of the
speed, right? And with DSL at this ADSL
617
00:57:33,644 --> 00:57:38,207
and the popular technology is always the
downlink is bigger than the uplink. I know
618
00:57:38,207 --> 00:57:45,110
in Brazil a lot of people, basically in
small, like small size ISPs, they did it
619
00:57:45,110 --> 00:57:50,290
the opposite way around! So they did one
modem with basically a large downstream
620
00:57:50,290 --> 00:57:55,380
and small upstream and then they, on
another line next to it, they inverted it
621
00:57:55,380 --> 00:57:59,130
by using a master modem on one side and a
slave modem on the other so then again he
622
00:57:59,130 --> 00:58:04,289
had symmetric speed. So, some people had
creative ideas to work around some of the
623
00:58:04,289 --> 00:58:09,902
technological restrictions.
Herald: So microphone number two, please.
624
00:58:09,902 --> 00:58:16,090
Mic 2: I also from Taiwan and I want to
add something for my friend. Like, there
625
00:58:16,090 --> 00:58:25,636
are still like half million people come
here to BBS called PTT, yeah, today. And
626
00:58:25,636 --> 00:58:34,345
like, there's a, there are 100,000 people
online now, yeah. So, I think the
627
00:58:34,345 --> 00:58:39,255
community is now like...
Herald: What ist your question? Can you
628
00:58:39,255 --> 00:58:42,302
please phrase the question?
Mic 2: I just want to add something for my
629
00:58:42,302 --> 00:58:46,642
friend, yeah.
LaForge: Okay, thank you.
630
00:58:46,642 --> 00:58:54,641
Herald: Microphone number one, please.
Mic 1: cough You talked about content of
631
00:58:54,641 --> 00:59:01,551
these mailboxes. Isn't it that the
Freifunk community today is a possible way
632
00:59:01,551 --> 00:59:11,900
to get this freedom back from what you had
in your mailboxes? The services they were
633
00:59:11,900 --> 00:59:19,290
offered there, the Freifunk could do the
same today with user own structures and so
634
00:59:19,290 --> 00:59:21,571
on.
LaForge: That's very correct yes. Freifunk
635
00:59:21,571 --> 00:59:26,267
definitely is much more in the spirit of
the community owned and community run
636
00:59:26,267 --> 00:59:31,440
systems, and I see lots of similarities
between the BBS community and what
637
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:34,690
Freifunk is doing today. It's correct.
Mic 1: Are you are you doing something
638
00:59:34,690 --> 00:59:37,630
with Freifunk?
LaForge: Me personally? No, I'm not
639
00:59:37,630 --> 00:59:40,480
involved.
Mic 1: Okay.
640
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:47,203
Herald: I think microphone number two is
waiting way too long.
641
00:59:47,203 --> 00:59:53,270
Mic 2: Hello, thanks for the talk. You
mentioned that most people didn't have a
642
00:59:53,270 --> 00:59:59,668
TCP/IP capable operating system at this
time and I started to read recently about
643
00:59:59,668 --> 01:00:06,313
an operating system called Xenix, X-E-N-
I-X, that was actually developed by
644
01:00:06,313 --> 01:00:14,609
Microsoft and published in 1983 that could
run on IBM PC compatible machines on the
645
01:00:14,609 --> 01:00:20,854
x86 processors, and I hear that in the
Russian BBS systems at least it was very
646
01:00:20,854 --> 01:00:26,480
popular. Did you encounter any Xenix
operating systems at that time?
647
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:30,886
LaForge: No I personally did not encounter
Xenix. I read about it, yes, and I know it
648
01:00:30,886 --> 01:00:35,860
I could have possibly run it on my 286
machine, but I mean, I don't think it was
649
01:00:35,860 --> 01:00:40,097
something that was readily available for
affordable price to individuals, but maybe
650
01:00:40,097 --> 01:00:44,280
I'm wrong. No, certainly not, okay, some
people are heavily shaking their heads.
651
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:46,580
Mic 2: I think this is why it was popular
in Russia...
652
01:00:46,580 --> 01:00:49,150
Laughs
LaForge: Possibly. I do not want to
653
01:00:49,150 --> 01:00:52,440
comment on that...
Herald: We have time for one more
654
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:56,596
question. Microphone number 4.
Mic 4: I just wanted to note, in the wiki
655
01:00:56,596 --> 01:01:00,976
the meeting is up. Search for BBS and this
evening at 9 o'clock I think we can talk
656
01:01:00,976 --> 01:01:05,482
about all the details of running DSL on
modem lines. I've also got some more
657
01:01:05,482 --> 01:01:10,284
details on that and a lot of these modems
left if you need some. But I think, so see
658
01:01:10,284 --> 01:01:13,710
you Harold at 9 o'clock
LaForge: Yeah definitely! Thanks!
659
01:01:13,710 --> 01:01:16,090
Mic 4: Ok, everybody welcome.
LaForge: Thank you!
660
01:01:16,090 --> 01:01:17,480
Applause
661
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:20,222
Herald: Thank you very much for the talk.
662
01:01:20,222 --> 01:01:25,425
34C3 Music
663
01:01:25,425 --> 01:01:43,000
subtitles created by c3subtitles.de
in the year 2020. Join, and help us!