[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:12.84,0:00:15.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We begin with the name of Allah.\NAsalamu alaikum!
Dialogue: 0,0:00:15.15,0:00:17.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Welcome to another session of Maktab-e-Ghamidi.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:17.75,0:00:21.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As you know that we are trying to seek Ghamidi Sahab's point of view
Dialogue: 0,0:00:21.75,0:00:24.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on those 23 objections that are raised against him.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:24.41,0:00:27.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We talked in great detail about the beard and the veil.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:27.66,0:00:31.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The subject of 'Fitrah' had also commenced and an episode was completed.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:31.09,0:00:34.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As before, I will say that the objections people raise on
Dialogue: 0,0:00:34.26,0:00:36.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ghamidi Sahab's thoughts on 'Fitrah'
Dialogue: 0,0:00:36.47,0:00:39.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the ones who are interested must watch these episodes in sequence
Dialogue: 0,0:00:39.78,0:00:42.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because the discussion is in a sequential manner.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:42.08,0:00:44.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank You so much Ghamid Sahab for your time.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:44.21,0:00:49.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ghamidi Sahab, in the first episode, we put a fundamental objection of people before you
Dialogue: 0,0:00:49.81,0:00:56.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In their view you had added one more source to the sources of religion
Dialogue: 0,0:00:56.11,0:00:58.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is termed as Fitrah (Nature).
Dialogue: 0,0:00:58.38,0:01:01.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The thing that was asked is 'what is this thing called Nature?'
Dialogue: 0,0:01:01.19,0:01:05.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How do we access it and how did you come to pay attention to it?
Dialogue: 0,0:01:05.19,0:01:08.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let's take this discussion forward.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:08.25,0:01:12.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the last session Ghamidi Sahab, you had said that I study Fitrah
Dialogue: 0,0:01:12.25,0:01:16.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like I study any other things in the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:16.25,0:01:20.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the knowledge that is available to will also be available in case of Fitrah.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:20.33,0:01:25.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My question is that the knowledge you had pointed out exists within human nature ...
Dialogue: 0,0:01:25.77,0:01:29.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is this knowledge just the name of this ability,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:29.77,0:01:33.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, between truth and falsehood,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:33.47,0:01:36.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,well-known moral values, shame and indecency.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:36.49,0:01:40.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I consider them to be two different opportunities and possibilities.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:40.30,0:01:44.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Or is the Fitrah some kind of consciousness or ability
Dialogue: 0,0:01:44.30,0:01:48.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that helps me to choose the right one between the two?
Dialogue: 0,0:01:48.51,0:01:50.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] See, I had said three things
Dialogue: 0,0:01:50.89,0:01:58.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I had argued that whenever anything is said about man, it will be based on Fitrah.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:58.18,0:02:04.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Human Knowledge and the knowledge about human is the study of Fitrah.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:04.32,0:02:06.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The knowledge of minerals is the study of
Dialogue: 0,0:02:06.78,0:02:08.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the nature of minerals.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:08.36,0:02:11.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The knowledge of plants is basically the study of the nature of plants.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:11.74,0:02:15.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you talk about humans, then it will start from here.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:15.74,0:02:17.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As to what is the nature of a human being.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:17.76,0:02:21.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have discussed in great detail as to what Fitrah means.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:21.76,0:02:25.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now the thing is that what it really is?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:25.76,0:02:30.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, there is a potential ability, a consciousness installed inside of you.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:30.46,0:02:35.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The consciousness that is like a tree hidden in a seed, which is placed inside you
Dialogue: 0,0:02:35.58,0:02:39.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When it will have an external stimulus, you will reach a certain age,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:39.58,0:02:43.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the circumstances will create suitable conditions for it
Dialogue: 0,0:02:43.58,0:02:46.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then that thing will start to become knowledge.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:46.15,0:02:49.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I had told you how knowledge is created.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:49.13,0:02:54.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it was submitted that it always starts with your introspection.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:54.55,0:02:58.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have a sense and I study the external world with it.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:58.71,0:03:03.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have an inner self with which I study my own existence.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:03.73,0:03:07.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These are the basic facts that are subjective.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:07.73,0:03:12.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, this is my study, this is my knowledge and this is my certainty.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:12.83,0:03:16.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then to transform it into an objective reality and an objective knowledge,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:16.83,0:03:19.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the method of induction is adopted.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:19.84,0:03:23.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After the method of induction, when we come to a point
Dialogue: 0,0:03:23.84,0:03:27.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that this is really the matter for all human beings.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:27.84,0:03:30.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is a common reality between them.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:30.05,0:03:32.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now the condition arose for it to become knowledge.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:32.87,0:03:35.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then comes the intellect and what does it do?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:35.67,0:03:39.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it starts to infer about its necessary implications and corollaries.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:39.67,0:03:43.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Its basic job is to make inferences.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:43.44,0:03:46.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,With it the inferential knowledge comes into being.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:46.12,0:03:51.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When these things are combined in order, we say that the knowledge
Dialogue: 0,0:03:51.84,0:03:53.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about a certain thing has been created.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:53.92,0:03:58.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All your sciences, I had said that they are created in this way.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:58.11,0:04:01.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So when you study human nature ...
Dialogue: 0,0:04:01.28,0:04:05.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now take a look and see all of your knowledge disciplines,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:05.28,0:04:11.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has it happened among them that the moment a desire for something arose
Dialogue: 0,0:04:11.67,0:04:17.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or what you call as ability, it appeared and some externality came from outside
Dialogue: 0,0:04:17.74,0:04:19.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and gave you that knowledge?
Dialogue: 0,0:04:19.61,0:04:23.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No, a human being creates that knowledge himself.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:25.18,0:04:29.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How can the knowledge that you create be\Ncreated unconsciously?
Dialogue: 0,0:04:29.18,0:04:29.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:29.92,0:04:33.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] That is, does it happen that the ability for sociology that
Dialogue: 0,0:04:33.92,0:04:39.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had been kept inside you ... an angel came from outside and sorted in order
Dialogue: 0,0:04:39.30,0:04:42.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all your knowledge of sociology?
Dialogue: 0,0:04:42.77,0:04:46.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because there had been kept an ability for reception in you, so you accepted it.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:46.77,0:04:49.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in this way the science of sociology\Ncame into being.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:49.63,0:04:50.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Does it happen like this?
Dialogue: 0,0:04:50.90,0:04:51.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] No.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:51.75,0:04:55.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] So when we study a human being ... I had submitted that
Dialogue: 0,0:04:55.32,0:05:00.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the decisive thing about it is what is my own consciousness and sense.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:00.69,0:05:04.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I open my eyes in this world, I reach the age of consciousness, I observe things,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:04.69,0:05:08.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is, I see the sun and I call it a sun.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:08.69,0:05:11.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I look at this house and say that it is a house.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:11.33,0:05:16.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now you will tell me that all I am saying is a delusion.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:16.61,0:05:19.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whereas my knowledge starts from here itself.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:19.60,0:05:23.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, either it is my senses that bring this knowledge to me
Dialogue: 0,0:05:23.60,0:05:27.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or I possess an inner sense through which I study my inner self.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:27.60,0:05:30.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, the study of the self is either taking place internally
Dialogue: 0,0:05:30.80,0:05:33.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or the study of objects is taking place outside.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:33.63,0:05:40.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is from this that I get the collection of facts or data with which my knowledge begins.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:40.03,0:05:44.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So take a look and see if all the sciences that have been created in the world
Dialogue: 0,0:05:44.03,0:05:47.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,till date, are they only an expression of my ability?
Dialogue: 0,0:05:47.26,0:05:50.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Man has gone through all these stages in it.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:50.23,0:05:54.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, the way he seems to create a sense of the facts
Dialogue: 0,0:05:54.23,0:05:58.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a result of his study and because of this,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:58.23,0:06:01.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those facts become an objective reality.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:01.04,0:06:05.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They pass through the method of induction and then the inference
Dialogue: 0,0:06:05.42,0:06:09.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of their necessary implications begins.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:09.04,0:06:13.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is how the knowledge of economics and politics comes into being.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:13.04,0:06:17.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What are all these sciences? The study of human nature.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:17.04,0:06:21.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the things that are related to religion in it are exactly of the same nature.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:21.04,0:06:25.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right, Ghamidi Sahab we say that a man benefits from the external world,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:25.96,0:06:31.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from ones practical observations and the experiences of the people.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:31.58,0:06:35.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he determines fitrah by making this journey of knowledge.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:35.58,0:06:40.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My question is that it is said that when in the external world, the tradition of knowledge
Dialogue: 0,0:06:40.74,0:06:44.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is present, superstitions, received wisdom is present, as is everything else.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:44.74,0:06:48.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A problem arises somewhere that my interiority is saying one thing
Dialogue: 0,0:06:48.74,0:06:51.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the experience with people is saying something else.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:51.86,0:06:55.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What knowledge will be decisive in it to determine the fitrah (nature)?
Dialogue: 0,0:06:55.86,0:06:57.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] We have had a discussion over it.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:57.89,0:07:02.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, a man by his nature carries the quality of critique within him.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:02.25,0:07:05.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whatever comes in front of him, a criticism of it begins.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:05.30,0:07:09.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This critique also changes into the objective reality and after that
Dialogue: 0,0:07:09.30,0:07:12.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the premises of knowledge begin to change.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:12.38,0:07:15.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But what is the standard to decide what is wrong and what is right?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:15.86,0:07:18.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That which is in accordance with human nature.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:18.36,0:07:22.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, the things that you find in human nature and when something
Dialogue: 0,0:07:22.36,0:07:27.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,comes in comformity to them, it finds an acceptance in the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:27.80,0:07:32.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When it clashes with them, then as many philosophies that you bring forth,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:32.86,0:07:36.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it is after a while that its flaws come to the light.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:36.86,0:07:40.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is how knowledge grows and who has ever claimed certainty in this regard?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:40.86,0:07:43.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the history of the evolution of knowledge.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:43.48,0:07:45.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, I will make my own study.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:45.52,0:07:49.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When the study of my self brings forth to me an aggregate of facts
Dialogue: 0,0:07:49.52,0:07:53.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it will go through a whole series of criticism.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:53.52,0:07:58.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is also passing on an individual level and it will also do so on a collective one.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:58.42,0:08:02.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All the sciences that you are taught in our universities and the way you get them,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:02.74,0:08:05.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do you accept them as they are?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:05.54,0:08:11.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They are parsed and analyzed on all the three levels.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:11.10,0:08:14.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, the collection of facts that you had arranged,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:14.50,0:08:19.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether they be results of your inner introspection or your outer experiences.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:19.64,0:08:23.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Did you set it up correctly? Was there any mistake made in them?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:23.64,0:08:25.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whether there anything wrong with the inductive process?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:25.98,0:08:29.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in the end while deciding the necessary rational implications,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:29.10,0:08:33.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,did you commit any error in your premises or in their arrangement?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:33.10,0:08:36.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it passes through criticism and the sciences come to being with this.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:36.56,0:08:40.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These questions have a mindset behind them,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:40.00,0:08:44.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that our knowledge is a final and static thing is fed to us.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:44.00,0:08:47.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Knowledge of everything goes through these stages.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:47.26,0:08:51.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Science, what you think of as such a great enterprise, and because of which
Dialogue: 0,0:08:51.26,0:08:57.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,many inventions and revelations have happened, and under whose shadow we are living today,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:57.50,0:08:59.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has this all happened in the blink of an eye?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:59.90,0:09:03.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Also, the facts that you apprehended in it, aren't they ever challenged?
Dialogue: 0,0:09:03.90,0:09:06.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, theories are formed herein. \NHow are they formed?
Dialogue: 0,0:09:06.94,0:09:10.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A collection of facts comes to us, it passes through the process of induction
Dialogue: 0,0:09:10.94,0:09:13.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and now the intellect makes inferences.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:13.98,0:09:17.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As long as it is in the realm of rational inference, it is an idea.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:17.98,0:09:23.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But this is a scientific idea. It is not something that you just say randomly.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:23.08,0:09:29.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It means as a result of induction of all the facts, something has been derived,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:29.96,0:09:36.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,such evidences have been procured, which is capable of being converted into a rational inference.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:36.18,0:09:40.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As soon as this thing comes into existence a premise of knowledge comes to the fore.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:40.18,0:09:44.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Another person may rise up, and offer a critique of it.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:44.18,0:09:48.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This practice of criticism goes on and that is what leads to acceptance and denial of theories.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:48.84,0:09:51.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is what the poet has describes as
Dialogue: 0,0:09:51.09,0:09:53.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,'Tarashidum Parastidum Shikastam'
Dialogue: 0,0:09:53.78,0:09:57.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] So Ghamidi Sahab, when you say this thing the rational question
Dialogue: 0,0:09:57.78,0:10:01.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is raised on it is that let us agree that one has to pass through a stage,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:01.78,0:10:05.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after that there will be criticism and then some facts will emerge
Dialogue: 0,0:10:05.04,0:10:06.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which you will call as 'Fitrah'.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:06.75,0:10:09.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if there is a science constantly under evolution,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:09.42,0:10:12.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if there are changes taking place in it everyday,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:12.66,0:10:16.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then how can it become a point of reference for you and me?
Dialogue: 0,0:10:16.66,0:10:20.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I will tell you to agree on Fitrah and you will say that I am studying it
Dialogue: 0,0:10:20.43,0:10:23.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I will reach to that reality and will someday agree with it.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:23.20,0:10:26.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] How are the sciences that you are studying and teaching now
Dialogue: 0,0:10:26.12,0:10:27.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,becoming the point of reference?
Dialogue: 0,0:10:27.91,0:10:32.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the same way. As long as they belong to a subjective study, they are for my own self.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:32.36,0:10:37.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If I have to make an individual decision, I will obviously do that
Dialogue: 0,0:10:37.33,0:10:38.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on my internal impressions.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:38.85,0:10:42.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The moment it becomes a knowledge, it will go through a process of induction.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:42.85,0:10:45.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So as a result of going through a process of induction,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:45.64,0:10:47.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the differences are removed.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:47.23,0:10:51.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, how an individual views it. How all people view it.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:51.23,0:10:53.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How are the different civilizations viewing it.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:53.60,0:10:55.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is how all sciences are formed.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:55.73,0:10:59.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is after this that the stage comes when you start inferring its rational implications.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:00.02,0:11:07.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The part that is practicable in it is immediately put into practice..
Dialogue: 0,0:11:07.68,0:11:08.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:08.52,0:11:11.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] And the criticism keeps happening in it.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:11.32,0:11:14.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How have you made these democratic institutions that you have made?
Dialogue: 0,0:11:14.30,0:11:17.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The principles on which the world is governed at the moment,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:17.44,0:11:21.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the principles on which UN is formed, where did they come from?
Dialogue: 0,0:11:21.44,0:11:24.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is it something that cannot be challenged?
Dialogue: 0,0:11:24.94,0:11:27.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have drafted a constitution for your country,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:27.72,0:11:35.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,obviously there are some facts that have been accepted together with their implications.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:35.30,0:11:37.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How did this practice of acceptance take place?
Dialogue: 0,0:11:37.76,0:11:40.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,See, this is exactly the method of induction.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:40.20,0:11:43.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, the facts were the subjective in their own places.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:43.10,0:11:46.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When you brought all the political leaders together,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:46.14,0:11:48.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there was a discussion among them over it.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:48.24,0:11:50.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it turned out that a consensus is developing.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:50.70,0:11:54.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,See, the build up of consensus is a result of induction.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:54.70,0:11:58.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So as a result, you agree completely on a few things.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:58.70,0:12:01.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In some things you turned out to be different.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:01.14,0:12:05.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You framed a document and decided over it.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:05.14,0:12:07.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Even then, amendments are needed.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:07.62,0:12:12.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if this is happening there, it is happening in other sciences as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:12.22,0:12:14.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] But I abide by the constitution every day.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:14.72,0:12:16.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] What's wrong about that?
Dialogue: 0,0:12:16.40,0:12:18.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All the sciences are being taught in the same way.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:18.91,0:12:23.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Based on the knowledge of engineering, you are building tall skyscrapers.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:23.50,0:12:28.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is also possible that the errors in your results may come to the light.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:28.22,0:12:31.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Doesn't it happen that on some occasions the bridges fell down
Dialogue: 0,0:12:31.18,0:12:32.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the buildings collapsed?
Dialogue: 0,0:12:32.72,0:12:36.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then it was found out that there was a scientific error in it somewhere.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:36.30,0:12:41.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So repeated experience makes human knowledge more perfect.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:41.92,0:12:45.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, perfection is created within it.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:45.22,0:12:47.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are no limits to perfection.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:47.06,0:12:51.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We say that the Taj Mahal is a pinnacle of construction.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:51.06,0:12:55.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is more to the world than that too and you see man has created that world.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:55.06,0:12:59.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now you dream of buildings as high as 1 or 2 kilometers.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:59.06,0:13:01.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How does all this happen?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:01.74,0:13:07.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, you do this work on such a large scale and put thousands of people
Dialogue: 0,0:13:07.90,0:13:09.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in those high buildings.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:09.24,0:13:11.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You see, it is a matter of life and death.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:11.42,0:13:13.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On what basis does it take place?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:13.30,0:13:18.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When you have to send these shuttles, when you send people to study Mars,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:18.06,0:13:22.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You send them with a confidence that the knowledge that you have gained till now
Dialogue: 0,0:13:22.06,0:13:27.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the method of induction, be it of maths, science or any other subject,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:27.08,0:13:31.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are a lot of results in it that can not be challenged now.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:31.08,0:13:33.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Still at times there are mistakes.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:33.52,0:13:36.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So a man lives his life like this.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:36.34,0:13:40.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, his knowledge is actually based on the most likely conjecture.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:40.34,0:13:44.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the smallest portion of which you can say that, it is a collection of facts
Dialogue: 0,0:13:44.34,0:13:46.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the rest of the things are mostly\Ninferential.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:46.58,0:13:48.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Ghamidi Sahab, you spoke of \Ninference.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:48.82,0:13:52.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A rational doubt that arises in determining nature through inference is
Dialogue: 0,0:13:52.82,0:13:57.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we see in the history of the nations, many among considered
Dialogue: 0,0:13:57.79,0:14:03.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,obscenity, nudity and homosexuality as their natural inclinations.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:03.98,0:14:07.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If someone goes into that time and applies this method of induction
Dialogue: 0,0:14:07.98,0:14:11.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the whole nation then it would seem to him that homosexuality is in man's nature?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:11.98,0:14:14.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] See, when that thing becomes a knowledge,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:14.46,0:14:17.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it does not become so in a single nation or in single settlement.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:17.52,0:14:20.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,t is formed at the level of humanity.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:20.78,0:14:22.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Exceptions are always present.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:22.58,0:14:25.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That exceptions are scrutinized.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:25.02,0:14:29.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It at times turns out that while studying the exception,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:29.02,0:14:30.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you arrive at an opposite conclusion.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:30.88,0:14:33.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You say that this is the rule and that what happened before
Dialogue: 0,0:14:33.82,0:14:35.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is to be seen as an exception.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:35.10,0:14:37.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All this happens in every knowledge.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:37.42,0:14:39.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we will also study obscenity and nudity.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:39.78,0:14:42.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We will also study the deviations of a nation.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:42.12,0:14:49.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What is true and what is false, I had said that we study rational humans.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:49.12,0:14:52.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We say that man is a rational creature.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:52.18,0:14:57.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I can take you and let you meet some of the patients in a mental asylum.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:57.16,0:15:02.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you know that many philosophers within post-modernism have made this case that
Dialogue: 0,0:15:02.56,0:15:05.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we should be seen through their eyes.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:05.46,0:15:11.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So these questions will remain and these questions will be answered in the same way
Dialogue: 0,0:15:11.18,0:15:11.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:11.90,0:15:15.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] It will be told that what is the rule and what is the exception.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:15.34,0:15:19.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It will be said that what are the requirements of nature and what is the deviation.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:19.08,0:15:22.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By studying it from different angles, you state your facts
Dialogue: 0,0:15:22.42,0:15:23.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which are in turn criticised.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:23.88,0:15:27.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This will be the case forever and there is no point worrying about it.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:27.88,0:15:31.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have told you that in construction of buildings, in surgery, in medicine
Dialogue: 0,0:15:31.88,0:15:39.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the things on which human life depends are also subject to these changes.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:39.54,0:15:43.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Even if it happens tomorrow in determining the meaning of obscenity and nudity,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:43.54,0:15:44.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,no hell will break loose.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:44.74,0:15:47.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We will reason and that argumentation will happen in the same way.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:47.82,0:15:51.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, the things which are present in human nature, we will probe them.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:51.82,0:15:55.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We will see them in the society while passing through the method of induction.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:55.82,0:15:59.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The basis of your rational inference will also depend only on them.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:59.14,0:16:03.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is no way for a man to gain knowledge
Dialogue: 0,0:16:03.14,0:16:07.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unless you believe that knowledge also came down from heavens.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:07.92,0:16:10.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is how knowledge is born in this world.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:10.44,0:16:14.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right. Ghamid Sahab if I see that a nation is deviated
Dialogue: 0,0:16:14.44,0:16:19.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they are considering their habits and qualities according to their own nature.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:19.66,0:16:23.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So now when I go to them and tell them to come and talk to me
Dialogue: 0,0:16:23.66,0:16:25.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they are standing on the wrong nature.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:25.92,0:16:28.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I will refer to them the nature of my inner self.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:28.48,0:16:31.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they will say, ''You are one and we are thousands.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:31.12,0:16:32.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now are you right or we are right?''
Dialogue: 0,0:16:32.97,0:16:36.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] I will refer to my self when the case is limited to me only.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:36.97,0:16:40.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If that matter has gone through the process of induction in the world
Dialogue: 0,0:16:40.97,0:16:44.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if it has a whole history to it, then why won't I refer to that?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:44.97,0:16:47.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I will tell what happened in the past.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:47.28,0:16:51.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I will also tell how man has struggled to get here.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:51.28,0:16:54.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I will tell all this to them and there may be a discussion about that.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:54.60,0:16:58.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, why should I have a staff that I will hit them in order to attract them?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:58.90,0:16:59.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:59.76,0:17:02.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] I will reason and they will do the same.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:02.51,0:17:09.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As a result, what survives will be in accordance to human nature.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:09.07,0:17:14.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What will be discussed there will depend on whether the method
Dialogue: 0,0:17:14.86,0:17:18.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they have adopted is a requirement of nature or is it a deviation.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:18.86,0:17:20.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is what will happen.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:20.83,0:17:24.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Man deviates because he has the will and authority.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:24.83,0:17:26.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I have to discuss it with them.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:26.84,0:17:29.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You are taking me to that small settlement
Dialogue: 0,0:17:29.19,0:17:32.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there have been civilizations in the world based on polytheism.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:32.25,0:17:34.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What did the Prophet do to them?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:34.90,0:17:36.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hit them with a staff?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:36.25,0:17:40.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, there is a divine decree that has come and has taken away from people
Dialogue: 0,0:17:40.25,0:17:42.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their ability to think and understand?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:42.66,0:17:44.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Discussions have taken place.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:44.09,0:17:46.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, they are arguing for their case.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:46.36,0:17:49.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, you are just referring to a small settlement
Dialogue: 0,0:17:49.25,0:17:53.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about which you are not even sure whether the whole settlement was doing it
Dialogue: 0,0:17:53.25,0:17:58.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or it was only their leaders, their elders or even the mischief of some miscreants.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:58.75,0:18:00.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You are not sure about that even.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:00.42,0:18:01.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How big was the settlement?
Dialogue: 0,0:18:01.93,0:18:05.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Of a hundred or fifty thousand people?
Dialogue: 0,0:18:05.07,0:18:07.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can determine that by the standards of the present world.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:07.93,0:18:11.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the debate over monotheism and polytheism is going on for centuries.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:11.93,0:18:13.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is spread across civilizations.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:13.66,0:18:16.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You still have to argue about it with billions of people even today.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:16.91,0:18:20.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what can you do about it? Just reason!
Dialogue: 0,0:18:20.16,0:18:23.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So knowledge is nothing but reasoning.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:23.12,0:18:25.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And how does reasoning bear results?
Dialogue: 0,0:18:25.68,0:18:33.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Your facts are created out of your senses, be they internal or external
Dialogue: 0,0:18:33.40,0:18:35.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and these are what are challenged.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:35.48,0:18:39.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] In this, it is clear that the knowledge is first subjective
Dialogue: 0,0:18:39.43,0:18:41.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then it gets related to the exteriors.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:41.85,0:18:44.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You even challenge the method of induction.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:44.84,0:18:49.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You say that what is being said is basically a result of deviation.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:49.94,0:18:53.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is in some settlements, some tribes and in some nations.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:53.94,0:18:56.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Humanity as a whole cannot accept it.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:56.12,0:18:58.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] You mean, at times the survey turns wrong.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:58.51,0:19:00.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] Yes, this is how it happens.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:00.33,0:19:02.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And after that, inference is a rational thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:02.52,0:19:05.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is a lot of deductive logic in it and there is no problem in it.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:05.87,0:19:08.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can very easily define it.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:08.07,0:19:10.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Where did logic originate as a science?
Dialogue: 0,0:19:10.13,0:19:13.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, when the intellect emerges and starts the process of inference
Dialogue: 0,0:19:13.49,0:19:14.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the basic premises.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:14.65,0:19:17.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the mathematical rules of the process of inference were made
Dialogue: 0,0:19:17.72,0:19:19.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that it is free of errors.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:19.45,0:19:20.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right. Right, Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:20.85,0:19:23.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] That is why that knowledge came into being.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:23.42,0:19:26.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In it the mistakes are pointed out and then later discussion starts on them.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:26.99,0:19:28.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the case with knowledge.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:28.68,0:19:31.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, first remove this misconception from your mind
Dialogue: 0,0:19:31.57,0:19:38.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that when a person first creates knowledge it is free from any errors at the outset.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:38.30,0:19:42.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is where the discussion starts, will go through these stages
Dialogue: 0,0:19:42.30,0:19:44.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in the same way reach conclusion.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:44.27,0:19:47.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that completion is actually the completion in the here and now.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:47.44,0:19:50.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The moment there is criticism on it, we move a step further.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:50.49,0:19:53.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Ghamidi Sahab, in all these rational objections,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:53.36,0:19:57.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the basic thought that is at work is that when a person creates knowledge.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:57.36,0:20:02.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Lets say, he makes from silica sand an I-pad and after discovering neutron and proton
Dialogue: 0,0:20:02.50,0:20:04.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he invented electricity.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:04.05,0:20:09.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the exterior knowledge and had to go through these logical steps.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:09.85,0:20:15.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The knowledge that is within a person should be very carefully disseminated.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:15.78,0:20:19.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in that he should not do this thing whether he does it in other things or not.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:19.78,0:20:23.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] See, the thing is that there are many contents of this knowledge.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:23.11,0:20:27.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the knowledge inside you that turns into psychology.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:27.11,0:20:30.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the knowledge inside you that turns into sociology.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:30.49,0:20:33.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All of these have to pass through these stages.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:33.31,0:20:36.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, what is this argument that
Dialogue: 0,0:20:36.03,0:20:40.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the knowledge you have inside must be different than the one outside?
Dialogue: 0,0:20:40.03,0:20:44.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The facts are within you and they will emerge in the same way.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:44.03,0:20:49.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have headache or any other ache, this is your subjective feeling.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:49.70,0:20:51.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is your inner feeling.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:51.47,0:20:55.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Obviously, as a result of induction, it is going through different stages.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:55.03,0:20:58.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there can be a mistake in it too.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:58.02,0:20:59.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There can be disagreement as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:59.64,0:21:02.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Disagreements and mistakes will be there in any knowledge,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:02.51,0:21:05.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be that any nafsi (spiritual) discipline or that of any external phenomena.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:05.27,0:21:08.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right. Ghamidi Sahab let's take the discussion forward.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:08.25,0:21:13.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As a result of this study, you saw the interior, the exterior and did induction.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:13.48,0:21:17.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Centuries have passed and now the question is that in 2020,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:17.48,0:21:25.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if a person wants to know about the Fitrah by examining all the knowledge of the past
Dialogue: 0,0:21:25.83,0:21:29.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then my question is that as a result of all the advancement in knowledge
Dialogue: 0,0:21:29.83,0:21:34.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the struggle therefore, what has been determined as 'Fitrah'?
Dialogue: 0,0:21:34.94,0:21:37.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, what are the facts on which it is based?
Dialogue: 0,0:21:37.22,0:21:41.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What are its limitations and can a person live his life entirely based on it?
Dialogue: 0,0:21:41.22,0:21:42.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What has been decided finally?
Dialogue: 0,0:21:42.73,0:21:45.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] There are a many things that have been decided.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:45.49,0:21:48.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are many that are under discussion and will remain so.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:48.39,0:21:50.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, it is certain that man is a rational animal.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:50.93,0:21:53.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He has in him the abilities of rational inference.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:53.65,0:21:55.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Induction confirms this.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:55.49,0:21:58.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On this basis we are advancing all our knowledge.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:58.94,0:22:02.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is certain that there is aesthetic sense in a man.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:02.03,0:22:05.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is something that cannot be challenged anywhere.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:05.17,0:22:08.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All the arts are being compiled on it.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:08.57,0:22:13.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Your painting, your poetry, your literature are all based on it.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:13.07,0:22:17.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is clear that these are the sources of acquiring knowledge within a man
Dialogue: 0,0:22:17.07,0:22:19.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I have just mentioned.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:19.82,0:22:23.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, he has an inner sense, he has outer senses.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:23.82,0:22:25.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How have we known all this?
Dialogue: 0,0:22:25.79,0:22:27.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Though this journey.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:27.26,0:22:28.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] Through our study.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:28.66,0:22:30.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there are no disagreements in it.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:30.47,0:22:33.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Knowledge emanates from these sources, there is no disagreement on that.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:33.90,0:22:37.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are some stages later where there are some disagreements.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:37.46,0:22:39.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We also agree on these things.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:39.00,0:22:40.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Take man as a moral being.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:40.65,0:22:43.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, he has some values.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:43.96,0:22:47.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They are the universal values, they are all objective values.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:47.33,0:22:50.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The system of this world is based on these values.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:50.34,0:22:53.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I see you with those values, you see me with those values.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:53.28,0:22:56.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A large part of them is where there is no disagreement.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:56.08,0:22:58.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On which we all humans agree.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:58.33,0:23:01.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is discussion on some of the applied things.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:01.17,0:23:06.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All of this on which we have developed a consensus, is it a small achievement?
Dialogue: 0,0:23:06.23,0:23:10.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I am saying that you are merely cultivating it,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:10.23,0:23:12.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,otherwise it's always been that way.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:12.20,0:23:12.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:12.94,0:23:15.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] In the oldest caves, you might have seen
Dialogue: 0,0:23:15.91,0:23:20.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that whenever a person advances forward, he makes pictorial art.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:20.86,0:23:28.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The study of man's past reveals that his aesthetics have always been present in him
Dialogue: 0,0:23:28.40,0:23:32.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The way he has been given the eyes, in the same way he has been given this sense.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:32.85,0:23:36.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He makes a decision whether this thing is beautiful or ugly
Dialogue: 0,0:23:36.11,0:23:37.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and chooses the beautiful one.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:37.84,0:23:41.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is a moral existence within him and that moral existence is appearing
Dialogue: 0,0:23:41.84,0:23:43.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in your constitutions.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:43.05,0:23:45.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is manifesting itself in your personal relationships.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:45.82,0:23:48.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the basis on which you have set up the courts.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:48.64,0:23:51.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the foundation on which the police institutions work.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:51.73,0:23:54.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The state system is being established on the basis of it.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:54.61,0:23:57.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Based on this, you have prepared the charter of fundamental rights
Dialogue: 0,0:23:57.85,0:24:00.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and made the institution of the United Nations.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:00.30,0:24:02.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, there is a lot that has been decided
Dialogue: 0,0:24:02.76,0:24:05.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And all of this has been certain for centuries.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:05.08,0:24:06.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right, Right,Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:06.91,0:24:09.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, Ghamidi Sahab the next question in\Nit is that
Dialogue: 0,0:24:09.68,0:24:13.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when we say that this knowledge is certain and now we have reached till here,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:13.42,0:24:18.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You had mentioned in the previous episode that there is instinctive knowledge in man.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:18.98,0:24:25.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And when it comes to religion, it is this instinctive knowledge that creates a desire
Dialogue: 0,0:24:25.28,0:24:28.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in man to seek the divine.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:28.23,0:24:30.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What is the meaning of this instinctive knowledge ?
Dialogue: 0,0:24:30.57,0:24:32.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It seems to be a bit difficult to understand.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:32.69,0:24:34.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What is it and on what things is it based upon?
Dialogue: 0,0:24:34.94,0:24:38.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] My creator has endowed me with a capability
Dialogue: 0,0:24:38.94,0:24:48.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to convert all the thing and ideas that I encounter, into knowledge.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:48.55,0:24:49.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:49.28,0:24:55.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] If you draw a line in front of me and the shape it creates,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:55.11,0:25:00.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I do not look at it like a goat or a donkey.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:00.52,0:25:03.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I call it a Triangle.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:03.12,0:25:04.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Give it a name.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:04.43,0:25:06.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] Not only have I given it a name
Dialogue: 0,0:25:06.14,0:25:09.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Calling it 'triangle' is how I actually turned it into knowledge.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:09.49,0:25:10.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:10.45,0:25:12.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] So the things that appear in front of me,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:12.85,0:25:14.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be it to my inner self or the external one.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:14.87,0:25:18.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The capability to convert them into knowledge is not lying outside me.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:18.29,0:25:21.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is not only based on my past experiences.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:21.87,0:25:24.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These are inside of me and this is my instinctive\Nknowledge.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:24.79,0:25:27.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, the moment it relates itself with objects outside,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:27.61,0:25:30.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it starts converting those things into knowledge.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:30.65,0:25:33.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What does it mean to be converted into knowledge?
Dialogue: 0,0:25:33.10,0:25:34.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It gives them meaning.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:34.88,0:25:37.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It makes a judgment on them.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:37.16,0:25:38.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It gives them a form.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:38.97,0:25:46.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It starts to determine their connections by employing the God-given capability.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:46.00,0:25:49.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My Fatir, or Khaliq (God's names) gave me this capability.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:49.27,0:25:52.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is my creativity that is inside me.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:52.50,0:25:54.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And its name is man.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:54.56,0:25:58.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If it is inside me then knowledge is being created and civilizations are emerging.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:58.56,0:26:00.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is not inside a donkey.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:00.15,0:26:02.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is not inside a dog.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:02.13,0:26:03.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is not inside a lion.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:03.58,0:26:07.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is possible that they may have far greater capabilities than mine,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:07.58,0:26:10.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but as a human being this capability is only found inside of me.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:10.74,0:26:13.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is the same thing that is being manifested in my knowledge
Dialogue: 0,0:26:13.68,0:26:14.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in my civilisation.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:14.85,0:26:18.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right. So, Ghamidi Sahab you say that the creation of a man
Dialogue: 0,0:26:18.20,0:26:21.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has been kept in the light of his Nature.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:21.07,0:26:27.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When we go and see outside, we of course believe in God and his scriptures and see
Dialogue: 0,0:26:27.08,0:26:30.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everything in its light, by comparing the world with revelation.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:30.13,0:26:34.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we come to know that the beginning of a man has started from Adam (AS).
Dialogue: 0,0:26:34.13,0:26:38.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He was a messenger and Allah Almighty talked to him directly.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:38.13,0:26:42.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So has the humanity began from the conscious capacity of this nature
Dialogue: 0,0:26:42.13,0:26:47.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or has it happened through God's direct scriptures or through some knowledge that
Dialogue: 0,0:26:47.45,0:26:50.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has been given on his behalf?
Dialogue: 0,0:26:50.13,0:26:54.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we see that first Adam (AS) was born, the concept of Prophethood came
Dialogue: 0,0:26:54.13,0:26:57.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and can there be anything that might have come after that?
Dialogue: 0,0:26:57.31,0:27:00.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] We are now entering the realm of religion.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:00.37,0:27:03.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So far we have been talking on a purely scientific
Dialogue: 0,0:27:03.59,0:27:04.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and rational basis.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:04.95,0:27:05.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:05.72,0:27:09.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] And in that the thing that I tried to explain was that
Dialogue: 0,0:27:09.10,0:27:13.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in my case it is not like there is somebody from the past about whose history
Dialogue: 0,0:27:13.98,0:27:15.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am not aware of.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:15.65,0:27:16.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right]
Dialogue: 0,0:27:16.69,0:27:18.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] Here children are born even today.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:18.86,0:27:22.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I see all of these potential qualities in them.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:22.86,0:27:26.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These are my experiences and observations of the present time.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:26.86,0:27:30.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I also see how the knowledge of the past becomes my legacy.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:30.86,0:27:36.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So when I ponder over it after stepping away from theology, what am I left with?
Dialogue: 0,0:27:36.80,0:27:40.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I will study the human being present at this time.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:40.80,0:27:43.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The rest of my knowledge is also based on this.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:43.14,0:27:47.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I argue on democracy as a principle that what is its past.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:47.14,0:27:51.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Behind its past is the history of the empires.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:51.14,0:27:55.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Human nature is studied as to what it wants.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:55.14,0:27:57.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What are those hidden demands within it?
Dialogue: 0,0:27:57.27,0:28:04.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The answer to that is some fighters by the use of power and domination,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:04.17,0:28:06.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,established their dominance over people.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:06.37,0:28:12.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Otherwise a man wants to do his business with freedom and liberty.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:12.01,0:28:16.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After discussion of all this, there is a mention of past, and present in it.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:16.01,0:28:20.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When you stand in the place of pure knowledge
Dialogue: 0,0:28:20.01,0:28:22.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you cannot give a religious reference.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:22.33,0:28:25.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, if you go to the religious references,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:25.29,0:28:28.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then obviously religious texts will come up for discussion.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:28.55,0:28:32.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The basic principle in it and the one that is a point of contention now,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:32.55,0:28:36.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that, the first human that we talk\Nabout
Dialogue: 0,0:28:36.55,0:28:39.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is, Adam (AS), (and Eve).
Dialogue: 0,0:28:39.44,0:28:43.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Was that first human being blind? didn't he have the capability to see?
Dialogue: 0,0:28:43.44,0:28:46.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Wasn't there any potential present in him?
Dialogue: 0,0:28:46.68,0:28:53.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Were all the things about religion told to him and then they came in his knowledge?
Dialogue: 0,0:28:53.17,0:28:54.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is it like this?
Dialogue: 0,0:28:54.09,0:28:56.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Was this the case with a human being?
Dialogue: 0,0:28:56.81,0:29:00.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is a point of view. That is, he wasn't aware about it.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:00.11,0:29:04.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For example, when you analyse the content of the religion.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:04.11,0:29:06.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You will realiize that what are these things
Dialogue: 0,0:29:06.60,0:29:08.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what are you calling as religion?
Dialogue: 0,0:29:08.46,0:29:11.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For example a consciousness of one's creator.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:11.36,0:29:14.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For example the ability of differentiation between good and evil.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:14.62,0:29:19.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is as if you are saying that all these things were alien to man.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:21.19,0:29:23.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Do you what you are endorsing?
Dialogue: 0,0:29:23.61,0:29:27.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You are endorsing the people who say that a man is a blank slate.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:27.61,0:29:29.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He was born as a tabula rasa.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:29.69,0:29:31.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He possesses no reason.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:31.05,0:29:32.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He has actually come to some conclusion
Dialogue: 0,0:29:32.81,0:29:35.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by trial and error, pushing and shoving some things.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:35.03,0:29:37.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is his instincts that have guided him.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:37.99,0:29:41.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The light of intellect did not exist in him the way it exists now.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:41.99,0:29:45.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know a lot of people narrate this story to you.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:45.18,0:29:45.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:45.97,0:29:49.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] Like, as a result of evolution, polytheism arises in it.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:49.50,0:29:51.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then from there the oneness of God emerges.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:51.70,0:29:54.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,From fear itself many different concepts arise.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:54.08,0:29:57.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If he dreams at night, then the world of Gods and Goddesses is created.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:57.25,0:29:58.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is it what you are trying to say?
Dialogue: 0,0:29:58.61,0:30:00.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] No, this is a problematic thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:00.17,0:30:02.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] Then you should say this.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:02.38,0:30:04.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You should say this in the same way man was born like this.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:04.84,0:30:08.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was basically the Prophets who came and told them things.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:08.26,0:30:10.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What is the other point of view?
Dialogue: 0,0:30:10.10,0:30:16.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is that the man came with an abstract knowledge of all the basic religious facts
Dialogue: 0,0:30:16.42,0:30:17.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:17.14,0:30:19.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] Brief knowledge of the basic facts.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:19.80,0:30:27.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,See, knowledge as I said before, becomes an ordered knowledge through centuries.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:27.62,0:30:33.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can see science, the history of philosophy or other subjects,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:33.94,0:30:37.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the religious facts must be first probed, i.e. what are they?
Dialogue: 0,0:30:37.94,0:30:41.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you think about it, I have said it many times before
Dialogue: 0,0:30:41.94,0:30:45.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that if you have a look at the content of religion, you see 4 things.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:45.94,0:30:52.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, you achieve the knowledge of God or that of the creator.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:52.30,0:30:57.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As a result of this knowledge, you feel a sense of servitude within you.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:57.48,0:31:01.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like one comes to know of one's mother or father and the feeling of love is created.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:01.48,0:31:05.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This feeling of servitude - how is it expressed?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:05.48,0:31:06.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the first thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:06.66,0:31:08.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In this, the rituals of worship come into being.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:08.96,0:31:11.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am talking about the religious content.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:11.67,0:31:14.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The other thing are the etiquette of purification.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:14.38,0:31:19.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, religion wants you and your body to be pure.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:19.69,0:31:26.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are many things of this kind like Wudhu, Ghusul, Janabah, Haiz, Nifas, etc.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:26.70,0:31:28.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What are all these things?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:28.21,0:31:30.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is in fact the purification of the body
Dialogue: 0,0:31:30.43,0:31:33.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which holds a very basic importance in the content of religion.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:33.58,0:31:35.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These are two things. What is the third thing?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:35.98,0:31:39.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Third thing is the difference between good and bad in one's food.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:39.39,0:31:40.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:40.23,0:31:43.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] That is, some things are forbidden to eat
Dialogue: 0,0:31:43.04,0:31:45.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and many things are permissible.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:45.37,0:31:47.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The rule that has been stated is that
Dialogue: 0,0:31:47.60,0:31:50.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all the things that are pure are permissible.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:50.12,0:31:52.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And all other things that are impure are forbidden.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:52.72,0:31:56.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the third thing in the content of religion.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:56.72,0:31:59.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The fourth and the last thing is maroof and munkar.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:59.92,0:32:02.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, the consciousness of good and evil.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:02.20,0:32:05.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You say that a certain thing is good and certain thing is bad.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:05.44,0:32:09.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So religion is this at its core. Let's not go to the commands yet.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:09.44,0:32:11.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This lies as the base of religion.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:11.70,0:32:15.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Man already possesses a brief knowledge of all these.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:15.13,0:32:15.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:15.94,0:32:17.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] This is the second premise.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:17.90,0:32:21.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The earlier one was that he is totally unaware of all these things.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:21.45,0:32:26.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If he is unaware of all these things, then where did the other sciences
Dialogue: 0,0:32:26.20,0:32:27.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that create knowledge come from?
Dialogue: 0,0:32:27.88,0:32:31.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right. He indeed invented the wheel and lit fire.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:31.88,0:32:35.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] That is he discovered the fire, went out, hunted animals
Dialogue: 0,0:32:35.88,0:32:39.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,made weapons, he started making pictures.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:39.88,0:32:41.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Where did the rest come from?
Dialogue: 0,0:32:41.53,0:32:44.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The way that knowledge was present in him,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:44.62,0:32:46.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,didn't he have the knowledge for these things?
Dialogue: 0,0:32:46.83,0:32:52.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if we observe today, does this knowledge come from an external stimulus?
Dialogue: 0,0:32:52.85,0:32:58.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, we see in our children that the basic facts that have been put in them,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:58.62,0:33:03.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,basically create the room for the further acceptance of knowledge.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:03.79,0:33:09.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The second point of view is that all of this was already present in a human being.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:09.55,0:33:14.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But in a brief abstract form, in a dormant state like that of a seed.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:14.60,0:33:18.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bil-ijmal. \NIt needed to be transformed into detail.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:18.60,0:33:24.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In all other sciences it was believed that the process of converting into details,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:24.60,0:33:28.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even if it took centuries no hell will break loose.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:28.14,0:33:28.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:28.96,0:33:31.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamid] But it was not appropriate in this case
Dialogue: 0,0:33:31.58,0:33:34.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because man has been sent for testing.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:34.19,0:33:39.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He is held accountable. Allah Almighty has sent him here as a trial.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:39.84,0:33:43.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Every human being will close his account and his office
Dialogue: 0,0:33:43.84,0:33:45.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when he leaves the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:45.82,0:33:50.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it became necessary for him to provide him with the details of this brief knowledge
Dialogue: 0,0:33:50.92,0:33:54.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which was given to him through the Messengers.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:54.62,0:33:57.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the connection between the revelation
Dialogue: 0,0:33:57.23,0:33:59.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the knowledge of your nature.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:59.72,0:34:01.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] And it is rational as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:01.96,0:34:04.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is what knowledge and intellect demand.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:04.63,0:34:07.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The evidence of this is found in other sciences.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:07.28,0:34:09.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, what happens in the rest of the sciences?
Dialogue: 0,0:34:09.76,0:34:12.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In rest of the sciences, whatever there is inside of you
Dialogue: 0,0:34:12.47,0:34:14.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of which you have got a potential ...
Dialogue: 0,0:34:14.19,0:34:16.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it manifests itself gradually.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:16.33,0:34:19.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It slowly connects to the facts.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:19.41,0:34:23.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In it even the process of induction takes years and centuries.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:23.41,0:34:27.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In it many discussions take place about the quality of the rational inference.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:27.41,0:34:33.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then somehow after investigating it, you establish it as a science.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:33.06,0:34:38.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you today go and open the library, you see the books on politics, psychology
Dialogue: 0,0:34:38.66,0:34:42.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sociology and many other subjects.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:42.10,0:34:43.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How did all this come into being?
Dialogue: 0,0:34:43.80,0:34:46.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You see, it has reached to this result after centuries.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:46.46,0:34:48.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we discuss it today.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:48.98,0:34:50.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,See the knowledge of the sciences.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:50.77,0:34:52.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The wheel has been invented long ago.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:52.100,0:34:54.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fire too was discovered a long time ago
Dialogue: 0,0:34:54.93,0:34:58.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the world that we see around us today is of last 2 centuries.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:58.93,0:35:02.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How much time did this all take to be invented.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:02.93,0:35:06.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, though how many stages of evolution did man go through.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:06.29,0:35:09.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Could this also be true of religious realities?
Dialogue: 0,0:35:09.05,0:35:09.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] No.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:09.85,0:35:13.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, it would have happened that this knowledge would have been
Dialogue: 0,0:35:13.39,0:35:18.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,organized for centuries and the people who did it would be held accountable.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:18.82,0:35:22.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] That is, after the end of the prophecy accountability would've started.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:22.73,0:35:26.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] Because of this Allah Almighty made this decision, or
Dialogue: 0,0:35:26.32,0:35:30.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I wont talk about the decision yet but what should have been in terms of man
Dialogue: 0,0:35:30.79,0:35:34.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should be that the beginning itself should have been with the Prophethood.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:34.30,0:35:34.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right
Dialogue: 0,0:35:34.100,0:35:37.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] I am still having a rational argument.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:37.24,0:35:38.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The beginning was to be made from here too.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:38.99,0:35:40.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If this knowledge. Takleef
Dialogue: 0,0:35:40.58,0:35:41.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Takleef is a Shar'i term.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:41.87,0:35:45.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Takleef means the knowledge which would have made man accountable.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:45.10,0:35:47.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If there was to be accountability for that.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:47.11,0:35:50.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If there is to be a apocalypse as a result of this and if there is a judgement
Dialogue: 0,0:35:50.94,0:35:54.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of man's eternal blessing and doom, then it cannot be postponed.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:54.76,0:35:57.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] So the situation was not that the man was lost
Dialogue: 0,0:35:57.93,0:35:59.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or he did not know the way.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:59.55,0:36:03.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Man had brought all these things in his nature.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:03.55,0:36:08.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For them to manifest there could have been a waiting period of centuries.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:08.55,0:36:14.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So Allah Almighty gave the first man who was given consciousness,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:14.07,0:36:18.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Men before this were being born with their material existence
Dialogue: 0,0:36:18.07,0:36:20.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as far their bodies are concerned.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:20.05,0:36:24.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the first man whom Allah Almighty gave consciousness was Adam (AS).
Dialogue: 0,0:36:24.05,0:36:28.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You call him with the name Adam, you can as well assign some other name.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:28.05,0:36:30.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because we didn't yet enter the world of \Ntheology.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:30.57,0:36:33.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this is what should have happened in his case,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:33.46,0:36:36.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is what intellect requires and this is \Nwhat knowledge demands.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:36.59,0:36:40.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, like the basics of other sciences are present within a human being
Dialogue: 0,0:36:40.59,0:36:44.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which as a result of gradual evolution accumulate their legacy
Dialogue: 0,0:36:44.59,0:36:48.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and become sciences should have been made a science on the very beginning.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:48.16,0:36:51.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] And this is what from \Nthe very beginning
Dialogue: 0,0:36:51.34,0:36:52.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which required prophecy.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:52.57,0:36:54.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So He himself was made the Prophet.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:54.85,0:36:58.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, they didn't even wait for another\NProphet to come to Him.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:58.49,0:37:00.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] He was himself made the messenger
Dialogue: 0,0:37:00.49,0:37:03.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] Therefore, whatever potential was present in them
Dialogue: 0,0:37:03.60,0:37:06.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and all the details that were needed
Dialogue: 0,0:37:06.95,0:37:09.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was provided to them at that very moment.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:09.38,0:37:11.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is what the intellect wants to happen
Dialogue: 0,0:37:11.64,0:37:16.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now enter the study of religion and after that ask the religious text itself
Dialogue: 0,0:37:16.45,0:37:17.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as to what happened.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:17.98,0:37:23.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Read Bible, read Quran, read Vedas, they \Nwill narrate to you the same story.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:23.02,0:37:23.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:23.86,0:37:27.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] Insist on it.\NThe Holy Quran says the same thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:27.01,0:37:29.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, we kept Adam and Eve in a garden
Dialogue: 0,0:37:29.34,0:37:31.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why did we keep them there?
Dialogue: 0,0:37:31.85,0:37:34.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that their fitrah manifests itself. That happened.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:34.36,0:37:36.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] That happened in the form of nudity.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:36.63,0:37:38.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] It happened in 10 other forms.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:38.68,0:37:41.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's a matter of a long inquiry.\NThat happened.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:41.81,0:37:46.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When it happened and after happening, \NAllah Almighty forgave them.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:46.70,0:37:50.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, they turned to God and repented.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:50.70,0:37:52.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,See what happened there.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:52.40,0:37:55.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,An urge for repentance and return arose.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:55.29,0:37:59.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What are the words in which my Lord becomes pleased with me.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:59.29,0:38:01.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was said that "We inspired those in \Nhim."
Dialogue: 0,0:38:01.58,0:38:02.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:02.41,0:38:06.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] And then there was the selection process.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:06.41,0:38:10.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And as a result of this selection, he was made a Prophet.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:10.41,0:38:12.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is what the Holy Quran states.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:12.17,0:38:16.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Take any text from the Quran where the story of Adam and Satan is told.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:16.17,0:38:20.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or of Adam and Eve, the events of the beginning of the world have been narrated.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:20.17,0:38:21.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is what is said.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:21.21,0:38:25.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On this occasion He was told that now My guidance will come
Dialogue: 0,0:38:25.21,0:38:26.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the occasions of the need.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:26.83,0:38:29.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The present need was fulfilled.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:29.25,0:38:31.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It will come in future as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:31.45,0:38:35.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then it is a separate discussion as to when that need arose
Dialogue: 0,0:38:35.45,0:38:37.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and when did the process of prophecy began.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:37.52,0:38:39.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are not talking about that yet.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:39.32,0:38:43.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right. Since we are now entering the religious discussion
Dialogue: 0,0:38:43.32,0:38:44.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from an intellectual one.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:44.95,0:38:48.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that if the Fitrah was already there then what was the need of prophecy?
Dialogue: 0,0:38:48.95,0:38:57.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ok if someone might say that Adam (AS) had met Allah Almighty,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:57.09,0:39:01.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the consciousness that you are talking about was his practical experience.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:01.78,0:39:04.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He has come to this world with that practical experience
Dialogue: 0,0:39:04.68,0:39:08.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It wasn't as if he inferred that as a creation, there should be a creator.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:08.22,0:39:10.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] Now that we have come to religious texts.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:10.72,0:39:12.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Quran is itself stating the same thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:12.84,0:39:14.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you go to the Surah-Al-Araaf.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:14.43,0:39:17.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is stating that Adam (AS) had to yet come into existence
Dialogue: 0,0:39:17.52,0:39:22.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when the same thing happened to his children, his future generations
Dialogue: 0,0:39:22.76,0:39:25.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that were to come after centuries.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:25.44,0:39:26.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right
Dialogue: 0,0:39:26.14,0:39:31.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] That is, they had not come to this world yet, as bodies.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:31.63,0:39:35.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Their personality, the real personality not just of them but
Dialogue: 0,0:39:35.63,0:39:39.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Iz akhaza Rabuka Min Banii-Aadama Min Zuhurihim"
Dialogue: 0,0:39:39.63,0:39:43.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When you discuss this verse, then I will you that
Dialogue: 0,0:39:43.26,0:39:45.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Quran is telling a story much before that.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:45.89,0:39:46.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right
Dialogue: 0,0:39:46.71,0:39:49.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] So if you have to argue from the religious texts
Dialogue: 0,0:39:49.85,0:39:51.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then the situation is different altogether.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:51.91,0:39:53.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let's look at one thing at a time.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:53.57,0:39:56.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Ok, Ghamidi Sahab, now we will come to the full details as to
Dialogue: 0,0:39:56.89,0:40:00.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where Quran makes Fitrah as a point of reference and what it says.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:00.89,0:40:03.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first question about man is that
Dialogue: 0,0:40:03.81,0:40:07.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When Adam (AS) was sent by Allah Almighty, after that he committed a mistake.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:07.81,0:40:11.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A man who has brought into the world a consciousness of good and bad,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:11.81,0:40:13.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He knows about good and evil.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:13.91,0:40:17.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is no external influence, no effect of knowledge and no imagination
Dialogue: 0,0:40:17.91,0:40:20.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it is there that they deviated.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:20.03,0:40:21.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So why didn't Allah Almighty say that
Dialogue: 0,0:40:21.84,0:40:26.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,'Adam, I had just created you with this fresh fitrah and you violated it?'
Dialogue: 0,0:40:26.98,0:40:29.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Instead, Allah Almighty said that 'I had forbidden you from this'
Dialogue: 0,0:40:29.76,0:40:33.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is as if the word of Allah Almighty became a ruling for Adam (AS)
Dialogue: 0,0:40:33.04,0:40:35.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and not some reference of man's natural consciousness.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:35.67,0:40:38.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] See, this is the reference of that ordeal
Dialogue: 0,0:40:38.21,0:40:39.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to which they were subjected.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:39.64,0:40:42.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What connection does it have with nature?
Dialogue: 0,0:40:42.20,0:40:44.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] That is, the act of obscenity took place.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:44.16,0:40:47.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] From where did this obscenity and virtue come into discussion?
Dialogue: 0,0:40:47.56,0:40:51.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, Adam and Eve have been kept together at a place by Allah Almighty.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:51.18,0:40:53.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They have been kept there as conscious human beings.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:53.90,0:40:59.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To tell these conscious human beings as to what values are hidden in them.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:59.59,0:41:02.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How will their nature manifest itself.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:02.58,0:41:04.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For that they were subjected to an ordeal.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:04.84,0:41:10.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They were kept in a garden; there they were given permission about everything.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:10.64,0:41:14.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the restrictions were imposed on their personal relationships.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:14.64,0:41:18.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They are husband and wife and where does the question of obscenity come from?
Dialogue: 0,0:41:18.31,0:41:19.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Oh! Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:19.27,0:41:23.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] That is they are husband and wife and have been created like that.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:23.27,0:41:25.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They had a right to get intimate.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:25.62,0:41:28.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is a legitimate practice in our religion.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:28.06,0:41:30.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there was restriction imposed on this.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:30.36,0:41:33.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now when the restrictions were imposed then there are some instincts present
Dialogue: 0,0:41:33.99,0:41:35.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,inside a human being.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:35.48,0:41:37.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is not a sin itself.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:37.35,0:41:40.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The restrictions were imposed in the same way between a husband and wife
Dialogue: 0,0:41:40.89,0:41:43.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as is done during the month of Ramadan.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:43.10,0:41:45.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is imposed with the command of Allah Almighty, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:41:45.52,0:41:47.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is meant as a trial.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:47.14,0:41:49.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, the instincts that are present in human nature,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:49.92,0:41:53.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because with it a man has been given a will and authority,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:53.92,0:41:57.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then at times Allah Almighty imposes a restriction on some natural instinct.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:57.92,0:42:00.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this restriction was imposed on them.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:00.40,0:42:03.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When the restrictions were imposed on them what happened after that?
Dialogue: 0,0:42:03.92,0:42:07.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now what happened is that the desire within them
Dialogue: 0,0:42:07.92,0:42:09.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we have now come to existence,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:09.70,0:42:11.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,See how the human nature manifests itself.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:11.75,0:42:13.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That we should now get eternity.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:13.97,0:42:17.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you study the human nature.\NYou had asked this question that
Dialogue: 0,0:42:17.58,0:42:18.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what nature exactly is.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:18.93,0:42:23.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One aspect of that nature is that every \Nsingle human beings seeks eternity.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:23.80,0:42:27.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He has in his nature a want for this.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:27.80,0:42:29.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He never wants to die.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:29.35,0:42:35.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now what happened is that the Satan who\Nhad now turned into their enemy,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:35.10,0:42:39.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,came and started coaxing them, swearing oaths!
Dialogue: 0,0:42:39.10,0:42:43.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Quran states this and he told them that I am your well-wisher.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:43.10,0:42:46.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The thing that you have been forbidden is actually an obstacle
Dialogue: 0,0:42:46.31,0:42:48.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the way of attaining eternity.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:48.56,0:42:49.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:49.72,0:42:53.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] He told them that if you do this thing you will live forever.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:53.72,0:42:56.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this thing was not entirely incorrect.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:56.80,0:43:00.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are, in fact, alive for centuries in the quest to this eternity.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:00.80,0:43:07.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, if we look at a man as man and Adam qua Adam, it is like that.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:07.39,0:43:11.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what did Satan say, it has been told in Surah Taha that he came and swore
Dialogue: 0,0:43:11.39,0:43:13.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you eat the fruit of this tree.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:13.45,0:43:17.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This tree has exactly the same meaning as you say Shajr-e-Nasab.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:17.45,0:43:21.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, it is the tree from which generations are to sprout.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:21.45,0:43:26.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you eat its fruit and as a result you \Nwill become eternal like the angels.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:26.91,0:43:31.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The word 'angel' that has been used does not suggest that you will become angels
Dialogue: 0,0:43:31.36,0:43:35.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but you will create the qualities in your present existence like that of angels.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:35.36,0:43:39.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So as a result you will gain eternity and will live forever.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:39.36,0:43:43.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now it is clear that in this way man violates the command of Allah.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:43.36,0:43:46.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Fitrah demanded that they consummate.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:46.38,0:43:47.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:47.23,0:43:51.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] It is just that Allah had stopped them from doing this and they did.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:51.23,0:43:53.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This was the first incident.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:53.61,0:43:57.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can still see that when a person goes through this process for the first time
Dialogue: 0,0:43:57.61,0:44:01.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or for the first time this feeling and consciousness affects him
Dialogue: 0,0:44:01.61,0:44:04.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then the same situation arises.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:04.05,0:44:10.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When it happens and when the desire subsides the guilt take over a man.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:10.25,0:44:13.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in the Holy Quran, Allah Almighty hasn't spoken yet.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:13.62,0:44:16.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can see at different places in the\NHoly Quran.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:16.33,0:44:21.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, you were put to a test and that sense of guilt just arose in you
Dialogue: 0,0:44:21.12,0:44:23.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because that was already present inside of you.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:23.50,0:44:27.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] People say that since Adam (AS) was a Prophet, Allah might have sent
Dialogue: 0,0:44:27.32,0:44:29.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a revelation and created that sense of \Nguilt in him?
Dialogue: 0,0:44:29.81,0:44:31.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ghamidi] He has not got the\Nrevelation yet.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:31.89,0:44:33.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He will get it after he makes a\Nrepentance.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:33.90,0:44:38.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right now, as human beings they are being\Ntold what nature they have brought
Dialogue: 0,0:44:38.84,0:44:40.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how it manifested
Dialogue: 0,0:44:40.06,0:44:42.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The same nature has manifested itself.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:42.00,0:44:44.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first manifestation was in the process of intercourse,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:44.74,0:44:48.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then what is the instinct behind it - a huge blessing.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:48.74,0:44:51.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, I will get the eternity and will be immortal.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:51.94,0:44:53.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I will live like angels forever.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:53.66,0:44:56.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This all is the manifestation of a man's nature.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:56.03,0:44:57.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what happened after this?
Dialogue: 0,0:44:57.73,0:45:00.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, he is aware of these organs now.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:00.87,0:45:03.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They are used for defecation purposes.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:03.62,0:45:07.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In our part of the world when kids used \Nto play till the ages of 5 to 10 years,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:07.62,0:45:10.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they don't have the consciousness of this thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:10.17,0:45:15.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the moment the instinct of sex arises,\Nthe urge for hiding them arises.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:15.83,0:45:17.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The same happened.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:17.60,0:45:20.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Quran says that the moment it happened,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:20.33,0:45:22.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you see that is it just ability?
Dialogue: 0,0:45:22.68,0:45:27.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so, in that case, the moment this sense or awareness was created,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:27.35,0:45:30.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a voice should have come that hide yourself with the leaves.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:30.26,0:45:32.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No, they decided for themselves that
Dialogue: 0,0:45:32.40,0:45:34.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Tafiqa Yaksifaani alaihi Mim warakil\NJannah.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:34.74,0:45:36.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what happened now,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:36.30,0:45:37.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It wasn't just ability.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:37.60,0:45:41.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Full consciousness was created which was followed with actions.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:41.60,0:45:44.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You convert it into knowledge now.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:44.37,0:45:47.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is, they have brought with them a sense of modesty,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:47.07,0:45:49.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this sense of humility is associated with sexual activity.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:49.89,0:45:52.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The moment this humility arises in a human being,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:52.34,0:45:55.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a need to hide his private parts is created.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:55.33,0:45:58.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the reality of modesty in this case.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:58.18,0:46:02.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And after that what a human does is he looks in his vicinity.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:02.18,0:46:04.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now we have high quality clothing available to us.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:04.60,0:46:08.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So at that time whatever was available, be it the leaves of the trees,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:08.60,0:46:10.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they hid themselves with them.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:10.58,0:46:14.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the thing that they did and only after it,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:14.58,0:46:18.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they were admonished that you have disobeyed by command.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:18.58,0:46:21.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They repented for that and then finally got the Prophethood.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:21.39,0:46:25.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Hassan] Right. Ghamidi Sahab the question that whether Fitrah precedes Prophethood
Dialogue: 0,0:46:25.39,0:46:27.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you discussed it with great detail.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:27.55,0:46:31.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our program ends here but I would like it in the next episode Inshallah
Dialogue: 0,0:46:31.55,0:46:37.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we understand it in order from you that the rational concept that a man
Dialogue: 0,0:46:37.34,0:46:40.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,desires and admits that there is nature.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:40.38,0:46:44.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The initial human beings and their characteristics tell us
Dialogue: 0,0:46:44.38,0:46:47.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there is a consciousness present in them.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:47.24,0:46:53.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The religious text and its basic sources, how do they explain it?
Dialogue: 0,0:46:53.97,0:46:58.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is it just a rational inference or Allah Almighty has made it clear in his words
Dialogue: 0,0:46:58.47,0:47:00.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the base of religion depends on Nature.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:00.94,0:47:04.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is the knowledge of human nature on which accountability will be done.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:04.44,0:47:08.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would like to know these things from you\Nin great detail in the next episode.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:08.21,0:47:11.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then all the counter arguments that people ask on this
Dialogue: 0,0:47:11.31,0:47:13.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we will put them in front of you.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:13.14,0:47:15.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank You so much for your time Ghamidi Sahab.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:15.38,0:47:16.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our episode ends here.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:16.78,0:47:20.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Akoolu Kawli Haaza Wastagfirullaha lii\NWalakum Walisaairil Muslimeen.