1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,000 I was born in Den Bosch, 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:05,000 where the painter Hieronymus Bosch named himself after. 3 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:07,000 And so I've always been very fond of this painter 4 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,000 who lived and worked in the 15th century. 5 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,000 And what is interesting about him in relation to morality 6 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,000 is that he lived at a time where religion's influence was waning, 7 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,000 and he was sort of wondering, I think, 8 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,000 what would happen with society 9 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,000 if there was no religion or if there was less religion. 10 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,000 And so he painted this famous painting, "The Garden of Earthly Delights," 11 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,000 which some have interpreted 12 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,000 as being humanity before the Fall, 13 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,000 or being humanity without any Fall at all. 14 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,000 And so it makes you wonder, 15 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,000 what would happen if we hadn't tasted the fruit of knowledge, so to speak, 16 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,000 and what kind of morality would we have? 17 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,000 Much later, as a student, 18 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,000 I went to a very different garden, 19 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,000 a zoological garden in Arnhem 20 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,000 where we keep chimpanzees. 21 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,000 This is me at an early age with a baby chimpanzee. 22 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,000 (Laughter) 23 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,000 And I discovered there 24 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,000 that the chimpanzees are very power hungry and wrote a book about it. 25 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,000 And at that time the focus in a lot of animal research 26 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,000 was on aggression and competition. 27 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,000 I painted a whole picture of the animal kingdom, 28 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,000 and humanity included, 29 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,000 was that deep down we are competitors, 30 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,000 we are aggressive, 31 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,000 we're all out for our own profit basically. 32 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,000 This is the launch of my book. 33 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,000 I'm not sure how well the chimpanzees read it, 34 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,000 but they surely seemed interested in the book. 35 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,000 Now in the process 36 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,000 of doing all this work on power and dominance 37 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,000 and aggression and so on, 38 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,000 I discovered that chimpanzees reconcile after fights. 39 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,000 And so what you see here is two males who have had a fight. 40 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,000 They ended up in a tree, and one of them holds out a hand to the other. 41 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,000 And about a second after I took the picture, they came together in the fork of the tree 42 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,000 and they kissed and embraced each other. 43 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,000 Now this is very interesting 44 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,000 because at the time everything was about competition and aggression, 45 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,000 and so it wouldn't make any sense. 46 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,000 The only thing that matters is that you win or that you lose. 47 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,000 But why would you reconcile after a fight? 48 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,000 That doesn't make any sense. 49 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,000 This is the way bonobos do it. Bonobos do everything with sex. 50 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,000 And so they also reconcile with sex. 51 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,000 But the principle is exactly the same. 52 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,000 The principle is that you have 53 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,000 a valuable relationship 54 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,000 that is damaged by conflict, 55 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,000 so you need to do something about it. 56 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,000 So my whole picture of the animal kingdom, 57 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,000 and including humans also, 58 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,000 started to change at that time. 59 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,000 So we have this image 60 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,000 in political science, economics, the humanities, 61 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,000 philosophy for that matter, 62 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,000 that man is a wolf to man. 63 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,000 And so deep down our nature's actually nasty. 64 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,000 I think it's a very unfair image for the wolf. 65 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,000 The wolf is, after all, 66 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,000 a very cooperative animal. 67 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,000 And that's why many of you have a dog at home, 68 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,000 which has all these characteristics also. 69 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,000 And it's really unfair to humanity, 70 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:46,000 because humanity is actually much more cooperative and empathic 71 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,000 than given credit for. 72 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,000 So I started getting interested in those issues 73 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,000 and studying that in other animals. 74 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,000 So these are the pillars of morality. 75 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:58,000 If you ask anyone, "What is morality based on?" 76 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,000 these are the two factors that always come out. 77 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,000 One is reciprocity, 78 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,000 and associated with it is a sense of justice and a sense of fairness. 79 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,000 And the other one is empathy and compassion. 80 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,000 And human morality is more than this, 81 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,000 but if you would remove these two pillars, 82 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,000 there would be not much remaining I think. 83 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,000 And so they're absolutely essential. 84 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,000 So let me give you a few examples here. 85 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,000 This is a very old video from the Yerkes Primate Center 86 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,000 where they train chimpanzees to cooperate. 87 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,000 ["1937"] So this is already about a hundred years ago 88 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,000 that we were doing experiments on cooperation. 89 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,000 What you have here is two young chimpanzees who have a box, 90 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,000 and the box is too heavy for one chimp to pull in. 91 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,000 And of course, there's food on the box. 92 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,000 Otherwise they wouldn't be pulling so hard. 93 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,000 And so they're bringing in the box. 94 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,000 And you can see that they're synchronized. 95 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,000 You can see that they work together, they pull at the same moment. 96 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,000 It's already a big advance over many other animals 97 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,000 who wouldn't be able to do that. 98 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,000 And now you're going to get a more interesting picture, 99 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,000 because now one of the two chimps has been fed. 100 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,000 So one of the two is not really interested 101 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,000 in the task anymore. 102 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,000 (Laughter) 103 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:13,000 (Laughter) 104 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,183 (Laughter) 105 00:04:35,566 --> 00:04:38,170 Now look at what happens at the very end of this. 106 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,000 (Laughter) 107 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,000 He takes basically everything. 108 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,000 (Laughter) 109 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,000 So there are two interesting parts about this. 110 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,000 One is that the chimp on the right 111 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,000 has a full understanding he needs the partner -- 112 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,000 so a full understanding of the need for cooperation. 113 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,000 The second one is that the partner is willing to work 114 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,000 even though he's not interested in the food. 115 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,000 Why would that be? Well that probably has to do with reciprocity. 116 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,000 There's actually a lot of evidence in primates and other animals 117 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,000 that they return favors. 118 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,000 So he will get a return favor 119 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,000 at some point in the future. 120 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,000 And so that's how this all operates. 121 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,000 We do the same task with elephants. 122 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,000 Now with elephants, it's very dangerous to work with elephants. 123 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,000 Another problem with elephants 124 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,000 is that you cannot make an apparatus 125 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,000 that is too heavy for a single elephant. 126 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,000 Now you can probably make it, 127 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,000 but it's going to be a pretty flimsy apparatus I think. 128 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,000 And so what we did in that case -- 129 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,000 we do these studies in Thailand for Josh Plotnik -- 130 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,000 is we have an apparatus around which there is a rope, a single rope. 131 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,000 And if you pull on this side of the rope, 132 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,000 the rope disappears on the other side. 133 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,000 So two elephants need to pick it up at exactly the same time and pull. 134 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,000 Otherwise nothing is going to happen 135 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,000 and the rope disappears. 136 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,000 And the first tape you're going to see 137 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,000 is two elephants who are released together 138 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,000 arrive at the apparatus. 139 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,000 The apparatus is on the left with food on it. 140 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,000 And so they come together, they arrive together, 141 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,000 they pick it up together and they pull together. 142 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,000 So it's actually fairly simple for them. 143 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,000 There they are. 144 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,000 And so that's how they bring it in. 145 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,000 But now we're going to make it more difficult. 146 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,000 Because the whole purpose of this experiment 147 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,000 is to see how well they understand cooperation. 148 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,000 Do they understand that as well as the chimps, for example? 149 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,000 And so what we do in the next step 150 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,000 is we release one elephant before the other, 151 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,000 and that elephant needs to be smart enough 152 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,000 to stay there and wait and not pull at the rope -- 153 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,000 because if he pulls at the rope, it disappears and the whole test is over. 154 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,000 Now this elephant does something illegal 155 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,000 that we did not teach it. 156 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,000 But it shows the understanding that he has, 157 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,000 because he puts his big foot on the rope, 158 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,000 stands on the rope and waits there for the other, 159 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,000 and then the other is going to do all the work for him. 160 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,000 So it's what we call freeloading. 161 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,000 (Laughter) 162 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,000 But it shows the intelligence that the elephants have. 163 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,000 They develop several of these alternative techniques 164 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,000 that we did not approve of necessarily. 165 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:19,000 So the other elephant is now coming 166 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,000 and is going to pull it in. 167 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,000 Now look at the other. The other doesn't forget to eat, of course. 168 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:45,000 (Laughter) 169 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,000 This was the cooperation, reciprocity part. 170 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,000 Now something on empathy. 171 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,000 Empathy is my main topic at the moment of research. 172 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,000 And empathy has sort of two qualities. 173 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,000 One is the understanding part of it. This is just a regular definition: 174 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,000 the ability to understand and share the feelings of another. 175 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,000 And the emotional part. 176 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,000 And so empathy has basically two channels. 177 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,000 One is the body channel. 178 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,000 If you talk with a sad person, 179 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,000 you're going to adopt a sad expression and a sad posture, 180 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,000 and before you know it you feel sad. 181 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,000 And that's sort of the body channel of emotional empathy, 182 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,000 which many animals have. 183 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,000 Your average dog has that also. 184 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,000 That's actually why people keep mammals in the home 185 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,000 and not turtles or snakes or something like that 186 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,000 who don't have that kind of empathy. 187 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,000 And then there's a cognitive channel, 188 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,000 which is more that you can take the perspective of somebody else. 189 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,000 And that's more limited. 190 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,000 There's few animals -- I think elephants and apes can do that kind of thing -- 191 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,000 but there are very few animals who can do that. 192 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,000 So synchronization, 193 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,000 which is part of that whole empathy mechanism 194 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,000 is a very old one in the animal kingdom. 195 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,000 And in humans, of course, we can study that 196 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,000 with yawn contagion. 197 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,000 Humans yawn when others yawn. 198 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,000 And it's related to empathy. 199 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,000 It activates the same areas in the brain. 200 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,000 Also, we know that people who have a lot of yawn contagion 201 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,000 are highly empathic. 202 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,000 People who have problems with empathy, such as autistic children, 203 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,000 they don't have yawn contagion. 204 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,000 So it is connected. 205 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,000 And we study that in our chimpanzees by presenting them with an animated head. 206 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,000 So that's what you see on the upper-left, 207 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,000 an animated head that yawns. 208 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,000 And there's a chimpanzee watching, 209 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,000 an actual real chimpanzee watching a computer screen 210 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,000 on which we play these animations. 211 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,000 (Laughter) 212 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,000 So yawn contagion 213 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,000 that you're probably all familiar with -- 214 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,000 and maybe you're going to start yawning soon now -- 215 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,000 is something that we share with other animals. 216 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,000 And that's related to that whole body channel of synchronization 217 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,000 that underlies empathy 218 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,000 and that is universal in the mammals basically. 219 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,000 Now we also study more complex expressions. This is consolation. 220 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,000 This is a male chimpanzee who has lost a fight and he's screaming, 221 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,000 and a juvenile comes over and puts an arm around him 222 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,000 and calms him down. 223 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,000 That's consolation. It's very similar to human consolation. 224 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,000 And consolation behavior, 225 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,000 it's empathy driven. 226 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,000 Actually the way to study empathy in human children 227 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,000 is to instruct a family member to act distressed, 228 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,000 and then they see what young children do. 229 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,000 And so it is related to empathy, 230 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,000 and that's the kind of expressions we look at. 231 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,000 We also recently published an experiment you may have heard about. 232 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,000 It's on altruism and chimpanzees 233 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,000 where the question is, do chimpanzees care 234 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,000 about the welfare of somebody else? 235 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,000 And for decades it had been assumed 236 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,000 that only humans can do that, 237 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,000 that only humans worry about the welfare of somebody else. 238 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,000 Now we did a very simple experiment. 239 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,000 We do that on chimpanzees that live in Lawrenceville, 240 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,000 in the field station of Yerkes. 241 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,000 And so that's how they live. 242 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,000 And we call them into a room and do experiments with them. 243 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,000 In this case, we put two chimpanzees side-by-side. 244 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,000 and one has a bucket full of tokens, and the tokens have different meanings. 245 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,000 One kind of token feeds only the partner who chooses, 246 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,000 the other one feeds both of them. 247 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,000 So this is a study we did with Vicky Horner. 248 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,000 And here you have the two color tokens. 249 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,000 So they have a whole bucket full of them. 250 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,000 And they have to pick one of the two colors. 251 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,000 You will see how that goes. 252 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,000 So if this chimp makes the selfish choice, 253 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,000 which is the red token in this case, 254 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,000 he needs to give it to us. 255 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,000 So we pick it up, we put it on a table where there's two food rewards, 256 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,000 but in this case only the one on the right gets food. 257 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,000 The one on the left walks away because she knows already. 258 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,000 that this is not a good test for her. 259 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,000 Then the next one is the pro-social token. 260 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,000 So the one who makes the choices -- that's the interesting part here -- 261 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,000 for the one who makes the choices, 262 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,000 it doesn't really matter. 263 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,000 So she gives us now a pro-social token and both chimps get fed. 264 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,000 So the one who makes the choices always gets a reward. 265 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,000 So it doesn't matter whatsoever. 266 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,000 And she should actually be choosing blindly. 267 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,000 But what we find 268 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,000 is that they prefer the pro-social token. 269 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,000 So this is the 50 percent line that's the random expectation. 270 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,000 And especially if the partner draws attention to itself, they choose more. 271 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,000 And if the partner puts pressure on them -- 272 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,000 so if the partner starts spitting water and intimidating them -- 273 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,000 then the choices go down. 274 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,000 It's as if they're saying, 275 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,000 "If you're not behaving, I'm not going to be pro-social today." 276 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,000 And this is what happens without a partner, 277 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,000 when there's no partner sitting there. 278 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,000 And so we found that the chimpanzees do care 279 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,000 about the well-being of somebody else -- 280 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,000 especially, these are other members of their own group. 281 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,000 So the final experiment that I want to mention to you 282 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,000 is our fairness study. 283 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,000 And so this became a very famous study. 284 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,000 And there's now many more, 285 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,000 because after we did this about 10 years ago, 286 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,000 it became very well known. 287 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,000 And we did that originally with capuchin monkeys. 288 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,000 And I'm going to show you the first experiment that we did. 289 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,000 It has now been done with dogs and with birds 290 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,000 and with chimpanzees. 291 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:43,000 But with Sarah Brosnan we started out with capuchin monkeys. 292 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,000 So what we did 293 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,000 is we put two capuchin monkeys side-by-side. 294 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,000 Again, these animals, they live in a group, they know each other. 295 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,000 We take them out of the group, put them in a test chamber. 296 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,000 And there's a very simple task 297 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,000 that they need to do. 298 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,000 And if you give both of them cucumber for the task, 299 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,000 the two monkeys side-by-side, 300 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,000 they're perfectly willing to do this 25 times in a row. 301 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:07,000 So cucumber, even though it's only really water in my opinion, 302 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,000 but cucumber is perfectly fine for them. 303 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,000 Now if you give the partner grapes -- 304 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,000 the food preferences of my capuchin monkeys 305 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,000 correspond exactly with the prices in the supermarket -- 306 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,000 and so if you give them grapes -- it's a far better food -- 307 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,000 then you create inequity between them. 308 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,000 So that's the experiment we did. 309 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,000 Recently we videotaped it with new monkeys who'd never done the task, 310 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,000 thinking that maybe they would have a stronger reaction, 311 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,000 and that turned out to be right. 312 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,000 The one on the left is the monkey who gets cucumber. 313 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,000 The one on the right is the one who gets grapes. 314 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,000 The one who gets cucumber, 315 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,000 note that the first piece of cucumber is perfectly fine. 316 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,000 The first piece she eats. 317 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,000 Then she sees the other one getting grape, and you will see what happens. 318 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,000 So she gives a rock to us. That's the task. 319 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,000 And we give her a piece of cucumber and she eats it. 320 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,000 The other one needs to give a rock to us. 321 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,000 And that's what she does. 322 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,000 And she gets a grape and she eats it. 323 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,000 The other one sees that. 324 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,000 She gives a rock to us now, 325 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,000 gets, again, cucumber. 326 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:27,000 (Laughter) 327 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,000 She tests a rock now against the wall. 328 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,000 She needs to give it to us. 329 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,000 And she gets cucumber again. 330 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,000 (Laughter) 331 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:47,000 So this is basically the Wall Street protest that you see here. 332 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,000 (Laughter) 333 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,000 (Applause) 334 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,000 Let me tell you -- 335 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,000 I still have two minutes left, let me tell you a funny story about this. 336 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,000 This study became very famous 337 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,000 and we got a lot of comments, 338 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,000 especially anthropologists, economists, 339 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,000 philosophers. 340 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,000 They didn't like this at all. 341 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,000 Because they had decided in their minds, I believe, 342 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,000 that fairness is a very complex issue 343 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,000 and that animals cannot have it. 344 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,000 And so one philosopher even wrote us 345 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,000 that it was impossible that monkeys had a sense of fairness 346 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,000 because fairness was invented during the French Revolution. 347 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,000 (Laughter) 348 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,000 Now another one wrote a whole chapter 349 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:31,000 saying that he would believe it had something to do with fairness 350 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,000 if the one who got grapes would refuse the grapes. 351 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,000 Now the funny thing is that Sarah Brosnan, 352 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,000 who's been doing this with chimpanzees, 353 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,000 had a couple of combinations of chimpanzees 354 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,000 where, indeed, the one who would get the grape would refuse the grape 355 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,000 until the other guy also got a grape. 356 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,000 So we're getting very close to the human sense of fairness. 357 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,000 And I think philosophers need to rethink their philosophy for awhile. 358 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,000 So let me summarize. 359 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,000 I believe there's an evolved morality. 360 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,000 I think morality is much more than what I've been talking about, 361 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,000 but it would be impossible without these ingredients 362 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,000 that we find in other primates, 363 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,000 which are empathy and consolation, 364 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,000 pro-social tendencies and reciprocity and a sense of fairness. 365 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,000 And so we work on these particular issues 366 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,000 to see if we can create a morality from the bottom up, so to speak, 367 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,000 without necessarily God and religion involved, 368 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,000 and to see how we can get to an evolved morality. 369 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,000 And I thank you for your attention. 370 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:30,000 (Applause)