WEBVTT
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34C3 preroll music
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Herald Angel: And I'm very happy to have 2
speakers here who
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will tell us about their
experiences on the Iuventa, the ship that
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was seized in august this year. Kathrin
has been doing search and rescue
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operations in the mediteranean since 2
years, and she was on board when the boat
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was seized, when the Iuventa was seized,
and she was even Head of Staff. Hendrik
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has also been active in such a rescue
operation as a RHIB
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chuckles
Voice-over: driver
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Herald Angel: RHIBer, which is a kind of
special function, and he has also been
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doing this for 2 years approximately, for
different NGOs. And I am very happy that
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they are here and can tell us about what
happend on the Iuventa. So, we have
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translation to German on the Mumble that
is in the back now, and yeah, please
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welcome them to the big applause, thank
you.
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applause
Hendrik: Hello. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for the
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introduction. Hello everybody. Welcome to
the talk "The Seizure of the Iuventa". We
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are glad that a few people made it here.
When we actually planned for the talk we
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were planning for one hour, so we put a
lot of content in the description and it
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was only two weeks ago that we learned we
only have half an hour so we were really
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pressed to focus a bit. So. Yeah what I
will do is I will give you a quick
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introduction into the area we operate in
which is the central Mediterranean. I will
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tell you what we do there. And after that
Kathrin will talk about the actual seizure
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of the Iuventa. So this is Kathrin, I'm
Hendrik obviously, I think you already
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noticed that. So yeah I like maps. So I
put this map in the slides. So, migration
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is happening we all know that. And people
are trying to reach Europe for, yeah in
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search of a better and safer life. So the
reasons why they are fleeing are very
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different. There are war, violence,
discrimination, prosecution, or poverty.
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They all have their reasons to leave their
homes. So what we see here is the routes
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these refugees take are constantly
changing and that is due to changing
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political circumstances. We have different
routes through the Mediterranean. For a
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while now we have the eastern route that
was quite famous two years ago when a lot
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of people tried to cross the Mediterranean
from Turkey to Greece. That was basically
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closed. We had the western route like 10,
15 years ago. A lot of people tried to
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cross it from Morocco to Spain or to the
Canary Islands. And at the moment we
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mainly are focusing on the central
Mediterranean route, that is where all the
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migration, or most of the migration is
happening. People are trying to cross
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mainly from Libya, which is the brown spot
at the bottom, to Italy. In the last
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couple of months there also were people
trying to cross from Tunisia, but still
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the main part of the migration is
happening through Libya. So to give you a
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better understanding about what we are
talking here, we draw you a map with some
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distances on it. The distances are given
in nautical miles. That is the unit we use
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at sea. Just to give you an example: Under
perfect conditions, a refugee boat that
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would leave Libya would take at least 3
days to Lampedusa, more than 4 days to
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Malta, and more than 5,5 days to Sicily.
That would be under perfect conditions
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that never exist. There are always waves.
There is the wind, the boats often don't
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have a compass so they don't know where to
go. So in fact the only boat we know of
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that really made it to Malta was underway
for 8 days. So the distances these people
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have to cross, have to cover, are quite
long. So the classic boats we encounter on
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that route, these type of boats, below you
see a wooden boat, these wooden boats have
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really different sizes. They take from 100
up to 1000 people. Usually 500 people with
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plus minus 100, but their fit up to 1000
people in them. And on the upper part you
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see the typical boat that was used until
last summer. That is the rubber boat. 120
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to 150 people usually fit in there. But we
also encountered boats with 180 people in
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them. These conditions like these boats
and the long distance and these not
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seaworthy boats of course make this route
the most dangerous route in the world. So
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the most people trying to cross borders
are dying in the Mediterranean. You see
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this statistics, they are from the Missing
Migrants Project. They only collect the
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data off the known deaths. These are no
absolute numbers, it's just a relation. So
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the big dark blue part is the relation of
the people dying in the Mediterranean
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related to the rest of the world. So I
think you all see that the Mediterranean
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is really really a dangerous route to
take. But still people are forced to take,
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to use this route because Europe and their
allies are basically closing off the
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shorter and safer routes. So the
international law states a duty to rescue
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people in distress. We always have acted
and complied with these laws of the sea
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and these international laws and we are
fulfilling a duty that usually is up to
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the European Union but they are not
willing to do that. So the NGOs had to
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step in to rescue these people. So the
region we are operating in ...
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applause
Thanks. The region we are operating in is
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also regulated by international laws. You
have Libya there of course the Libyan law
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applies as well as in the C Zone on up to
the 12 mile line, which is the red line
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you see there. This is also Libyan
territorial waters. And from the 12th mile
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on it's basically international waters. We
have the so-called contiguous zone up to
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24 miles, where the Libyan authorities
have certain law enforcement rights, but
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it still is international waters. So the
blue shape you see is the Search and
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Rescue Area where we find most of the
boats. And that is basically where we
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operate up to the 12 mile line, we don't
cross the 12 mile line usually. So to be
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able to conduct effective operations we
need of course to buy a ship, because
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without a ship you cannot go there. So the
Iuventa was bought and the Iuventa was
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sent to the area where most boats get in
distress. That means we are doing
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proactive search and rescue. Proactive in
this case means we go there before boats
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get in distress and actively search for
them. That is because ships move slowly so
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we cannot wait on Malta until ships get
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in distress, until boats get in distress
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because it would take us 24 hours to get
there. So for us it is important to be
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there when the people depart from shore,
because these boats you saw the pictures
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on the slides before they are immediately
a distress case, as soon as they are in
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the open sea, there's no discussion about
that. As soon as one of these overcrowded
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boats is in the open sea they are a
distress case. They don't have to sink to
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be a distress case. So we need to go there
before they depart to be able to help
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immediately. The Iuventa is a very small
ship, you can see that it's only 33 metres
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long. There's not much people fitting on
there and for transfer, it usually can
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take only the crew. So we act as a first
response unit. When we find the boats in
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distress, we secure them with life jackets
and life rafts. So we supply lifejackets
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to the people on the boat and, if
necessary, bring out life rafts and
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evacuate people on the life rafts. And
then call for bigger ships that transfer
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them to Italy. You can see one of the
bigger ships here. It's the Vost Prudence.
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It was used by MSF, it was chartered
basically, and this is a way bigger ship
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and it can take way more people and it can
bring them safely to Italy. So these
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transfers to these big ships we always do
in close cooperation with the Maritime
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Rescue Coordination Center in Rome, the
so-called MRCC. The MRCC is responsible
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for distress cases in that area. They
are there to coordinate the rescue
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operations and they are always ordering
the transfer of the migrants. So whenever
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we transferred migrants to one of these
big ships, the MRCC ordered us to do so,
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we never did that on our own. But you have
to keep in mind: The MRCC is not an agency
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that is acting independently. It basically
is a subordinate of the Interior Ministry
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in Italy, so it is bound by instructions
to the Interior Ministry. You have to keep
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that in mind for later when Kathrin is
telling you something. As I already said:
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The Iuventa is not suited to transport
people to a place of safety. It is only
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there to secure them. That was always
clearly communicated with the MRCC and we
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always acted as a first responder, and
secured the situation. That was our job.
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That is what we are good at. So this is
how we operated from the beginning, and
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this is how we operated on another NGO
vessel I've been in 2016, the Minden. It
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was the same case: We were there as a
first responder, we secured the people,
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transferred them to bigger vessels, they
then brought them to Italy. This is also
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how all the other NGOs working there
worked, like CI Sea-Watch, MSF, Safe the
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Children, Moas Mission, Lifeline, and all
the other NGOs working there. We're not
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alone there. And it was a successful,
proven concept. So just to tell it once
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more: The concept is we have smaller
boats, staying there, securing the people,
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and once they are secured we call for
bigger ships, call for help, transfer them
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to these bigger ships, and they then bring
them to a place of safety, which usually
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is Italy. But in May 2017 suddenly some
things started to change for the Iuventa.
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Kathrin: Thank you.
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One thing I may want to emphasize again
is that everything we did was always
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under the coordination of the Rescue
Coordination Center in Rome in Italy and
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up until then we really had a good working
relationship with them. We were conducting
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successful and very efficient search
operations, rescue operations. Maybe a
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little bit too efficient. So we can say a
chain of unusual events started in May
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this year. And one situation I want to
talk about now is when we received
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distress calls over the radio about
numerous migrant boats in distress in an
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area we were in. And the other ships in
vicinity who had found those boats, they
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called us and asked for our assistance to
rescue these people, and up until that not
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an unusual situation. However all of a
sudden we were requested by the MRCC, the
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coordination center in Rome, to withdraw
to leave the Search and Rescue Zone
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immediately and to go to Lampedusa. So to
make that clear: We were ordered to ignore
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distress calls of people at imminent, who
were at imminent threat of their life and
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go away. This has never happened before
until then. So as you can imagine we were
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torn back and forth whether we should
actually do that, or not. We were somewhat
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obliged to follow their instructions but
it did mean obviously that we had to leave
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people on these boats in distress behind.
And I can remember the persistent efforts
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that day we were trying to make, and also
others were trying to make, to keep the
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Iuventa in the SAR Zone for that, for that
situation. However, it did not work out,
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they continued insisting. And finally we
had to give in, and proceed to Lampedusa.
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Unfortunately, later we learned that those
two days when the Iuventa was absent,
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which turned into one of the most busiest
rescue periods we had seen in 2017. Many
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hundred people lost their lives and the
remaining capacities in the SAR Zone were
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just way beyond their capacities. So this
very procedure continued twice: Once more
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in May, and another time in June. And
again: Back then we were absolutely in the
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dark as to what could possibly be the
motivation behind such instructions and we
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realized something had changed, the good
working relationship with the MRCC for
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some reason wasn't that good anymore. But
we did not understand what was going on,
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why are they behaving like that. And I
mean we have to realise that: This is an
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authority whose duty it is to coordinate
rescues at sea, and to save people's lives
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at sea. And they are withdrawing and
actively reducing Search and Rescue ships
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from where and when they're needed most.
We were utterly astonished, not to say,
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speechless. And we could imagine various
scenarios until then. Of course we were
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quite aware that the situation they were
dealing with is really, I mean, not easy
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to deal with. So we were a lot of the
times putting it down to "Hey, okay,
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they're probably really overwhelmed with
dealing all these increasingly complicated
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rescues in the Mediterranean, and
eventually that leading to really poor
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decision making". However such incidents
kept occuring. And at the end of July the
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Italian coast guard transferred 2 migrants
on board of the Iuventa. And they had
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found them in a really small rubber boat.
They had left from Tripoli and they
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requested us to take them on board. So
again that was a rather unusual event,
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never happened before, as we learned from
Hendrik before. The boats are usually a
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little bit bigger than three metres and
there are usually a few more people than
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two on there. Yet, you know, what if
what's happening out there is actually
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normal. So yes we took those 2 people on
board and we accommodated our guests for
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two days before we actually got any
instructions as to how to continue, and we
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were kind of almost expecting that we had
to proceed to Lampedusa with our two
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guests. So on the way to Lampedusa,
approximately half way, we received
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another distress call from Rome, about a
boat that had apparently left in Tunesia
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in the early morning. And what was really
interesting that day was that they gave us
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super precise instructions as to how to
perform a search pattern. A search pattern
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is like the organized way of performing a
search at sea with the coordinates and
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distances to speeds you go, so they were
in total control of what we did and how we
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did it, and they were making sure
continuously that we are following their
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plan. Something never happened before
because usually they were really not
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interested in how we performed the search,
as long as we found the boats, obviously.
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While they were making us perform a search
pattern that would have taken us three
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days to complete, the way they ordered us
to do it, they neither gave us an official
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distress notification, nor an official
search and rescue case number, both of
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which would be the usual procedure. And
probably worth by adding is that also the
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Iuventa was the only ship involved in that
search that day, all the other ships were
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just not a few between Tunisia and
Lampedusa had not been, obviously, not
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been informed. Another private rescue ship
that was, that happened to be in the area
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was initially declined by the MRCC to
support us. Then I kept insisting like:
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"Hey guys, we cannot possibly
do this on our own".
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And so eventually they allowed them to
join into the search. Very interesting
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also is that we requested the support
of a surveillance plane,
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of a private surveillance plane
by Sea-Watch, the Moon Bird,
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and it was completely rejected and
declined from morning till evening that
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day. So Moon Bird never left the ground in
Malta that day. And yet believe it or not:
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We were still not fully convinced that the
MRCC's decisions are actually really
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solely driven by the interests of the
Ministry of Interior in Italy.
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We were still somewhat in denial, thinking
that, you know, something like law
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enforcement would be beyond their scope,
really. And so our paranoia level had
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simply just not, could not grasp yet the
dimension of where this would take us.
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Until the very moment when we reached
Italian territorial waters close to
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Lampedusa, and 4 Coast Guard ships
escorted us with blue lights into the
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harbor of Lampedusa. And the Iuventa was
searched and seized on August 2nd. So,
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slowly it was dribbling, all these events
beforehand started to make sense, fell
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into place. And in fact, there are a lot
of facts now, in hindsight that were, you
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know, we can, that we can put in order,
and we know that the warrants for the
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search, as well as for the seizure, had
both been signed one day before we
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actually came to Lampedusa. And also the
complete confiscation order of the Iuventa
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had been leaked to the media in advance so
they could they could be there, they could
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receive us in the middle of the night.
They were waiting for us at the peer, the
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Italian press. And, you know, then you
think: "Okay, that search pattern we did.
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What was that about? Were they buying time
to fly in all these police officers that
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ended up on our ship?" But one thing we
know for sure now is that the scenario I
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talked about before when they withdrew the
Iuventa from distress calls that day in
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May, there was actually a price they
accepted to pay to install a bug on the
00:21:25.130 --> 00:21:33.710
bridge of the Iuventa that day. Also when
they continuously ordered the Iuventa back
00:21:33.710 --> 00:21:37.569
to Lampedusa, I mean, now that kind of
starts making sense as well if you
00:21:37.569 --> 00:21:49.419
consider that the capacity of a SD card
may not be that big over such a long time.
00:21:49.419 --> 00:21:55.819
Roundabout the same time when the bug was
installed on the bridge of the Iuventa
00:21:55.829 --> 00:22:02.490
there were also 2..., there was also 1
undercover cop placed on another private
00:22:02.490 --> 00:22:06.989
rescue ship and he later produced forged
evidence to incriminate the crew of the
00:22:06.989 --> 00:22:13.869
Iuventa. So in fact, the investigation, we
then learned, of the Iuventa crew by the
00:22:13.869 --> 00:22:21.530
Italian authorities was started as early
as September 2016 (last year) when two
00:22:21.530 --> 00:22:27.920
security officers on board of another
vessel, they were both former cops, had
00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:34.559
proactively informed not only special
police forces dealing with organized crime
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:40.230
in Sicily, but also the Italian foreign
intelligence service and a politician of
00:22:40.230 --> 00:22:46.169
the Lega Nord in Italy, and although their
testimonies were somewhat contradictory
00:22:46.169 --> 00:22:51.750
and they were reporting strange behavior
of the Iuventa, they actually did prompt a
00:22:51.750 --> 00:22:57.909
large scale investigation. So the
accusations that are meant to justify the
00:22:57.909 --> 00:23:05.490
seizure of the ship include: Facilitation
of illegal immigration, Collusion with
00:23:05.490 --> 00:23:13.450
human traffickers, and possession of
firearms. However, until this day, there
00:23:13.450 --> 00:23:17.749
are no criminal charges against any
individual crewmembers, nor against the
00:23:17.749 --> 00:23:25.150
organization, which I guess works in their
favor as well because they have reached
00:23:25.150 --> 00:23:30.860
what they wanted, they bought time, they
have one ship less in the Search and
00:23:30.860 --> 00:23:36.089
Rescue area at the moment. And the moment
they actually get a trial they start
00:23:36.089 --> 00:23:43.800
having to produce real evidence, which may
be trouble for them. So the seizure of the
00:23:43.800 --> 00:23:48.790
Iuventa they called a so-called
'Preventive Measure', and that was only
00:23:48.790 --> 00:23:56.009
enabled by Anti-Mafia laws, which by the
way were also used against..., for similar
00:23:56.009 --> 00:24:05.660
cases like the Capandamur in 2005 and
Tunisian fishers in 2007, both of which
00:24:05.660 --> 00:24:12.289
cases the charges had to be dropped after
some years. Still the damage was done. So
00:24:12.289 --> 00:24:18.639
we have of course appealed the seizure, in
the meantime, at the court in Trapani,
00:24:18.639 --> 00:24:22.780
but, as we expected, that was rejected and
has been taken to the next level at the
00:24:22.780 --> 00:24:30.439
Supreme Court in Rome. And yeah, we are
now waiting for them to decide whether
00:24:30.439 --> 00:24:35.940
actually the seizure of the Iuventa was
legal or not.
00:24:36.110 --> 00:24:40.950
Hendrik: What we had to learn in the
aftermath was that the seizure of the
00:24:40.950 --> 00:24:46.880
Iuventa was only a small part in a way
bigger political fight. What the EU
00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:50.759
actually wants to do is they want to shut
down the central Mediterranean route at
00:24:50.759 --> 00:24:55.360
all costs, and what they also want to
prevent is pictures of drowning people.
00:24:55.360 --> 00:24:59.360
And instead of sending ships there to
rescue these people, what they want to do
00:24:59.360 --> 00:25:04.090
is they want to get rid of the witnesses
that document how the people drown and
00:25:04.090 --> 00:25:10.080
actually save them. So they are trying to
stop the NGOs from working there.
00:25:10.080 --> 00:25:14.159
applause
boo
00:25:14.159 --> 00:25:19.520
So what we learned is that the fight for
the Iuventa we are fighting at the moment
00:25:19.520 --> 00:25:23.770
is not a legal fight but a political
fight, and we are waging that fight
00:25:23.770 --> 00:25:29.070
together with a lot of other NGO that are
active there in the central Mediterranean.
00:25:29.070 --> 00:25:33.059
So for us of course the seizure of the
Iuventa was a drawback. We don't have a
00:25:33.059 --> 00:25:37.950
ship anymore which with which we can
operate. But still you can see also with
00:25:37.950 --> 00:25:42.969
constant pressure, sometimes there are
positive surprises. For example in
00:25:42.969 --> 00:25:48.580
December the United Nations made an
evacuation flight for migrants from Libya
00:25:48.580 --> 00:25:54.500
directly to Europe. And that of course was
only possible because of the constant
00:25:54.500 --> 00:25:58.899
media work a lot of NGOs did so that the
European Union had to react and allow
00:25:58.899 --> 00:26:05.220
that. So what this also shows us is that
with patience and continuous struggle it
00:26:05.220 --> 00:26:08.919
still is possible to drill small holes
into the walls of Fortress Europe.
00:26:09.899 --> 00:26:12.599
Kathrin: Yes, continue that fight!
Thank you.
00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:13.619
Hendrik: Thanks.
00:26:13.619 --> 00:26:34.069
applause
cheer
00:26:34.069 --> 00:26:44.810
Herald Angel: Breathtaking. Thank you so
much. So, do we have questions? We have
00:26:44.810 --> 00:26:54.840
some microphones in the Saal, so you can
just go there, and place yourself. Okay, I
00:26:54.840 --> 00:26:58.880
think I will start with number 6.
Microphone No. 6: Yes, hello, thank you
00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:05.980
for the good work. You mentioned a charge
of firearms on the ship. Were there any?
00:27:05.980 --> 00:27:11.930
Kathrin: Good question. No, they have not
found any evidence at all during the
00:27:11.930 --> 00:27:18.769
search, and we also later learned that
they had to include this section into the
00:27:18.769 --> 00:27:23.600
accusation to actually justify the seizure
at all, because those are the two
00:27:23.600 --> 00:27:31.290
accusations whould've not been strong
enough to justify the seizure.
00:27:31.290 --> 00:27:37.020
Herald Angel: Okay, microphone 1 please.
Microphone 1: Thank for the talk. 3 quick
00:27:37.020 --> 00:27:41.120
questions: How much did the Iuventa cost?
How much would it cost to buy a new ship?
00:27:41.120 --> 00:27:47.340
And is this feasible?
laughter
00:27:47.340 --> 00:27:51.699
Hendrik: I actually have no idea much that
ship cost, do you know that?
00:27:51.699 --> 00:27:58.750
Kathrin: I roughly know how much a ship in
that size would cost now, at a similar
00:27:58.750 --> 00:28:09.550
age. We are probably looking at between
180.000 to 250.000 Euro. And feasible or
00:28:09.550 --> 00:28:15.490
not, from an economic point of view
probably doable, yes, I mean, people have
00:28:15.490 --> 00:28:20.139
done it before, and it's probably possible
to do it again. From a political point of
00:28:20.139 --> 00:28:28.690
view it's certainly debateable whether...,
how to proceed and what the right action
00:28:28.690 --> 00:28:33.810
is at this point.
00:28:33.810 --> 00:28:38.720
Herald Angel: Okay, we have a Signal, we
have a question from the Internet, please.
00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:42.630
Signal Angel: Is what happened to your
ship unique, or are there other ships that
00:28:42.630 --> 00:28:45.410
have been seized?
00:28:45.410 --> 00:28:48.052
Kathrin: Can... I didn't understand the
question.
00:28:48.052 --> 00:28:52.429
Hendrik: Actually it's... The seizure is
unique but there have been other ships
00:28:52.429 --> 00:29:00.890
that have been searched by the cops like
from Save the Children and MSF.
00:29:00.890 --> 00:29:05.360
Herald Angel: Okay, number 1 please.
Kathrin: Something to the answer of that
00:29:05.360 --> 00:29:11.569
question: We... In our file we certainly
also know that while they are
00:29:11.569 --> 00:29:17.980
investigating against the Iuventa crew,
they have tapped phones of numberous
00:29:17.980 --> 00:29:23.620
people that also work for all the other
NGOs, mainly in Italy, so we know that
00:29:23.620 --> 00:29:31.029
this is going over and beyond what
happened to us, but we were just a, like a
00:29:31.029 --> 00:29:37.420
digestible bite, to put it that way.
Herald Angel: What a bite. Okay, number 1
00:29:37.420 --> 00:29:42.230
please.
Microphone 1: Let's say I've got a half a
00:29:42.230 --> 00:29:47.450
year of free time on hand... where do I
sign up?
00:29:47.450 --> 00:29:53.030
laughter
applause
00:29:53.030 --> 00:29:57.200
Hendrik: Sounds great, I can invite you to
come to the assembly afterwards. We have
00:29:57.200 --> 00:30:01.009
an "Just humans" assembly in hall 2 where
a lot of these NGOs I mentioned in the
00:30:01.009 --> 00:30:06.469
talk actually are, so just come and talk
to us, and find us there.
00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:12.320
Herald Angel: Okay, one last question, I
hope it's a short question because we just
00:30:12.320 --> 00:30:15.710
got 2 more minutes.
Microphone: Thanks for the talk, and
00:30:15.710 --> 00:30:22.379
thanks for the work you do. One question:
The bug, was it actually legal? Was it a
00:30:22.379 --> 00:30:28.070
legal operation that they did that? And
how do you know that there is a bug, that
00:30:28.070 --> 00:30:31.210
there have been a bug?
Kathrin: We know that there is a bug
00:30:31.210 --> 00:30:36.210
because that was a... it's part of the
investigation file that we were handed
00:30:36.210 --> 00:30:44.129
over, part of the 500 pages investigation
file. We know the exact date and time,
00:30:44.129 --> 00:30:48.169
when the bug has been installed, and
roundabout where, namely on the bridge of
00:30:48.169 --> 00:30:53.419
the Iuventa. Whether or not that action
was legal, because we are looking at
00:30:53.419 --> 00:31:01.880
Italien authorities, planting a bug on a
ship under Dutch flag, bugging people in
00:31:01.880 --> 00:31:09.370
interational waters, mostly from German
decent. Until today we have not got a
00:31:09.370 --> 00:31:17.789
clear answer to that question, we are
still asking a number of lawyers around
00:31:17.789 --> 00:31:24.310
Europe and it's probably a situation that
doesn't happen too often. Also you're
00:31:24.310 --> 00:31:27.789
warmly invited to come around to our
assembly and we can talk about that a
00:31:27.789 --> 00:31:31.799
little bit more, because that's one of the
most interesting and pressing questions we
00:31:31.799 --> 00:31:37.069
have as well.
Herald Angel: Okay. So, like the two said:
00:31:37.069 --> 00:31:41.470
Assembly Hall 2, just Humans, is the space
where you can meet them, where you can ask
00:31:41.470 --> 00:31:44.990
more questions. And thank you once again!
00:31:44.990 --> 00:31:50.010
applause and cheer
00:31:50.010 --> 00:31:52.009
Kathrin: Thanks for having us!
00:31:52.009 --> 00:31:56.829
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