WEBVTT

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Men
0:03
dream of women
0:05
women dream themselves being dreamt of
0:08
men look at women
0:10
women watch themselves being looked at the
0:14
well
0:30
to
0:34
do
0:47
women constantly meet glances which act like news
0:51
reminding them how they look my homage minimum
0:56
behind the big runs you an email
0:59
sometimes the grounds the medium is the island
1:02
reflected back from a real man I'll
1:16
you
1:57
the
2:13
to
2:20
a woman is always accompanied except when 2011
2:24
perhaps even then
2:25
I had an image asylum
2:28
while she's walking across a poem weeping in the desert like
2:32
she cannot avoid the envisaging self walking
2:36
a weeping from the earliest childhood cheese torte and persuaded
2:40
to survey herself continually the
2:43
chance to survey everything she is everything she does
2:46
because how she appears to others and particularly hard it is to men
2:49
the is a crucial importance the
2:52
partisan only sort of success I'll
3:00
Don
3:05
0
3:06
do
3:07
do
3:10
0
3:11
E in
3:15
a woman in the culture of privileged europeans
3:18
is first and foremost site to be looked at what kind of site
3:23
is revealed in the average European oil painting
3:27
the reporters that women as a reporter's men
3:30
but in one category of painting women with the principal
3:33
ever coming subject that category was the nude
3:37
in the news that European painting we can discover some of the
3:42
criteria and conventions by which women would charge
3:45
we can see how women was seen what then is in you
3:57
in his book on the new would Kenneth Clarke says that
4:00
being naked is simply being without clothes
4:03
the new would according to him
4:06
is a former Oct I would put it differently
4:11
to be naked is to be oneself to be new food
4:16
is to be seen naked by others and yet not recognized for oneself
4:21
a nude has to be seen as object
4:24
in order to be unused in the European oil painting
4:30
nakedness is not taken for granted as an archaic
4:33
Oct nakedness is a site for those who addressed
4:38
that is why man is painting which way to mark the end of the period I'm
4:41
considering
4:42
is so profound the comment on all the works which proceeded
4:45
the story begins
4:48
with the story Adam and Eve as told in Genesis and when the woman saw that the
4:54
tree was good for food
4:55
and it was a delight to the eyes and the tree was to be desired
4:59
to make one wise she took the fruit they're all and did eat
5:02
she gave also and her husband with her and he'd
5:06
and I is them both were opened and they knew that they were naked
5:10
and the Lord God called on to the man and said unto him
5:14
where art thou he said I heard my voice in the garden and I was afraid
5:19
because I was naked and I hate myself unto the woman
5:23
got said I will greatly multiply by sorrow
5:27
and I conception in sorrow that I shall bring forth children
5:31
and I desire to be to my husband and he shall rule
5:34
over the two things are striking about this story
5:41
they become aware being naked because
5:44
as a result to beating the Apple each sees
5:47
the other differently nakedness is created
5:50
in the mind of the beholder the second striking fact
5:55
is that the woman is blamed and is punished
5:58
by being made subservient to the man in relation to the woman
6:02
the man becomes agent of God in medieval art
6:08
the stories often illustrated seen following see
6:12
as in A Streetcar to in during the Renaissance
6:16
the narrative sequence disappears and the single moment
6:20
which is nearly always depicted is a moment shape
6:23
the couple left figleaves
6:27
or make a modest gesture with their hands but now
6:30
their shame is not so much in relation to one another as to the spectator
6:35
it is the spectators looking which aims them
6:38
later as painting became more secular
6:42
many other subjects offered the opportunity continues
6:46
but always in the European tradition the new
6:49
implies and awareness being seen
6:53
by the spectator they are not
6:56
naked as they are they are naked
6:59
as you see them
7:09
often as with the favorite subject Susanna and the elders
7:12
this is the actual theme a picture we join the elders
7:17
to spy on her she looks back at us
7:22
looking at a sometimes the woman suzanna
7:27
looks at herself in a pictured to herself
7:31
how men see her she sees herself
7:34
first and foremost as a site which means
7:38
site for men nice the Miller became a symbol
7:42
the vanity of women get the mail hypocrisy in this is blatant
7:46
you paint a naked woman because you enjoy looking at a
7:50
you put in there were in hand and you call the painting vanity
7:55
does Molly condemning the woman whose nakedness you have depicted
7:59
for your own pleasure and us incidently
8:02
repeating the biblical example by blaming the woman
8:06
the judgment of Paris
8:09
was another favorite mythological subject with the same in written idea
8:13
up man looking at naked women and judging Paris
8:17
towards the Apple to the woman he finds most beautiful
8:20
duty in this context is bound
8:23
to become competitive the judgment of Paris
8:27
is transformed into the beauty contest aesthetics when applied to women
8:33
are not as disinterested as the word beauty
8:36
might suggest I don't want to deny
8:42
the crucial part that see place in sexuality
8:45
but there's a great difference between being seen as oneself
8:48
naked or seeing another in that way at a body
8:51
been put on display to be naked
8:55
is to be without disguise to be on display
8:59
is to have the surface of one's own skin the has a one's own body
9:03
turned into a disguise a disguise which
9:07
cannot be discarded amongst the tens of thousands of European oil paintings at
9:12
Newlands
9:13
perhaps twenty 30 exceptions
9:16
paintings in which the artist seen the woman the field
9:20
as herself this rubin's
9:23
this rembrandt
9:30
this George 2.2 these paintings are as personal as love times
9:37
and that character is quite distinctive most you'd seen oil paintings
9:43
have been lined up by their painters for the pleasure
9:46
the male spectator owner who will assess
9:49
and judge them as sites that nudity is another former dress
9:55
they are condemned to never be naked with their clothes off
10:00
they are as formal as with their clothes on
10:05
those who are not judged beautiful are not
10:08
beautiful those who are are given the prize
10:12
applies is to be held that is to say
10:16
to be available Charles the Second
10:19
commission to this secret painting from Lee it's like hundreds of others
10:24
it might be Venus and Cupid but in fact
10:27
it was a portrait one of his mistresses Nell Gwyn it shows how passively looking
10:32
at the spectator
10:33
staring at her naked her nakedness
10:38
is not an expression happened feedings it is only a sign
10:42
a submission to his demand painting when he shows it to others
10:49
demonstrates the submission his guests in
10:52
him by contrast in another tradition
10:56
nakedness is a celebration active six your luved
11:00
as between two people the woman as activism and
11:03
the actions that each absorb the other
11:07
in oil painting
11:11
the second question or a second person who matters
11:14
is a stranger looking at the picture compared the expression
11:18
these two women when the model for what is considered a masterpiece by EIN
11:25
the other until paid model for photograph in a girlie magazine
11:29
of these two just the expression
11:36
look RTC it seems to me that in each pair
11:42
the expression is remarkably similar and his expression
11:46
responding with calculated charm to the man
11:49
whom she knows is looking at a although she doesn't know him it is true that
11:54
sometimes a painting includes a male lover
11:56
but the woman's attention is very very
12:00
directed towards him she looks away from him she looks out of the picture
12:04
towards he who considers himself a true lover
12:07
the spectator this painting was sent as a present from the Grand Duke of loans
12:14
the King of France the boy kneeling on the cushion and kissing a woman
12:18
is Cupid she's penis but the way her body is arranged has nothing to do
12:23
without kissing a body is arranged the way it is
12:26
to display it to the man looking at the picture the picture is made
12:31
to appeal to kids sexuality has nothing to do with her sexuality
12:35
the conventional not picking the half on a woman's body
12:39
helps towards the same and hair is associated with sexual part with passion
12:43
the woman sex or passion needs to be minimized
12:47
so that the spectator may feel that he has a monopoly
12:50
such passion there were paintings
12:54
which depicted male lovers sees that exist but they were mostly private
12:58
simi pornographic pictures in most paintings which were painted to be seen
13:03
rather than hidden the only rival to the male spectator
13:07
is a cupid how extraordinary it is
13:10
the pictorial symbol a passion was a small boy
13:14
for a similar reason women in the European onto the art painting
13:18
a seldom shown dancing they have to be shown
13:22
languid exhibiting minimum energy they are there to feed
13:27
an appetite not to have any of their own the appetite
13:32
was theoretically gargantuan
13:35
the absurdity of this male factory
13:39
although it was not seen as upset then reached its peak
13:42
in the public academic Oct at the 19th century prime ministers discussed
13:48
under paintings like this when one of them felt he'd been outwitted
13:52
he looked up for consolation
13:55
the new in European oil painting is usually presented as an
14:00
ideal subject it is said to be an expression from the European
14:04
humanists do it I don't want to reject entirely the truth to this
14:10
but I've tried to add to it starting off from a different viewpoint
14:14
dealer who believed in the ideal nude
14:18
sort to this ideal could be constructed
14:21
by taking the shoulders one body the hands of another
14:24
the best another and so on
14:28
was this humanist idealism
14:31
or was it was out have an indifference to who any one person
14:35
really was do these paintings
14:38
celebrate as we normally talked the women within them
14:42
or the mail wire
14:45
is that sexuality within the frame
14:49
or in front of it I showed the program
14:53
as you have seen it up till now 25 women
14:57
it began to seem absurd that the only images you were seeing
15:00
women silent newt so I showed it to them
15:04
and ask them to comment to comment not so much on the program but rather on the
15:07
questions raised by it
15:09
above all on the question of how men see women or have seen them in the past
15:14
and how this influences the way women see themselves today
15:18
we have an English course will happen image sensitive issue
15:21
image but I wonder how much
15:25
the sort of classical European painting
15:29
has shaped that image in my own case I find it quite impossible when I look at
15:33
the paint institution
15:34
your film I can take them seriously I cannot identify with them because they
15:39
are so immensely
15:40
exaggerated police you know the fasten home to some
15:43
secondary sexual characteristics release norms
15:47
Press great be to beastin bottoms and a huge things like that
15:53
and they just aren't real whereas with photographs
15:57
I'm you can you can feel that is potentially that's possibly me although
16:01
the it probably isn't but these these
16:05
nearly all the paintings you have shown I'll what is
16:08
called idealized am and therefore
16:12
they are to me very unreal in connection with
16:16
with any deep down image that I might have myself
16:20
and in connection with any deep down pleasure that I might have
16:23
in looking at another female body they don't give me that
16:27
engine tall can moms painting
16:31
but the on the they don't mean human beings to me
16:35
I'm the image that I compare myself with is the photograph
16:39
because it's with photographs that I've been encouraged to think for myself
16:43
this weight is essentially advertising me that's contributed to this
16:47
and consequently I find it extremely interesting to go back
16:50
and think newt's in this way because I've never done sir
16:54
having seen the film I have no doubt that the same thing plants
16:59
and do you find that they knew it in painting under the
17:02
in the same way yes
17:05
will you come get any information from it minute
17:09
snow guide to execute a one-time animation is lacking
17:13
oh well activity unit dynamism anything
17:18
it is has someone sees you in that something later
17:21
on I'm glad you showed them any picture
17:24
because I always find is extreme shocking
17:28
because the men address and women a naked
17:32
and he seems to be some the whole situation is a humiliating
17:35
position and women are will be
17:38
am and I think this is whole scheme teams and
17:42
at most people have had and something to nightmares about
17:46
lenses peaks nothing incidents
17:49
and this seems to me one and picked
17:52
I'm very interesting thing you said in the film was
17:55
about how nudity
17:58
was really a kind of disguise it wasn't the real person themselves and free
18:04
but it was just another comment wearing and worse than a garment in a sense
18:08
because
18:09
something that you can take off this comes I think
18:12
from nudity being combined with the polls
18:16
and that's inevitable if you're going to have a painting over model
18:20
bomb in a way
18:25
i think thats we're always dress always dressing up for a part
18:29
always on putting on a uniform of one kind or another
18:33
and I think women do this almost more than men have only begun doing he said
18:37
he recently
18:38
women are always getting to show the kind of character
18:42
what they want to percent the mother the working woman
18:46
the pretty young chick are and nudity
18:49
is a uniformed in a way for
18:53
I'm ready now for sexual pleasure you see
18:56
and so it doesn't YouTube you can't come you can't identify being nude
19:02
with being free only just recently read
19:05
that look eastward do which describes them
19:09
way in which room is reduced for sexy special mention
19:13
with to complete object and what struck me in all that
19:16
book as the most impressive image was the fact that
19:20
she was told that she was never
19:23
to touch her breasts to entirely clothes from a
19:26
all too close or to put her legs together
19:30
and so the whole point about her stance all the time with cheese available
19:35
and this the sense being available the senses waiting for other people
19:39
is the antithesis in action and
19:42
eat unit just like the home the book street be right there Smith
19:46
Tony hasn't run you know he's finished lotioning
19:49
and you feel this whole situation number when you talk to you say
19:52
I stay in seven nights a week waiting for somebody to rain
19:56
the concept availability implies facility because
20:00
if you simply want somebody else to act when you contact
20:04
yes it's is lack and you awake
20:07
when the man tapped mmm kisses him
20:10
rising and I'm made it an excuse to get yourself
20:15
I think you need to shine
20:19
there waiting
20:22
to him yes yes could I say something about narcissism
20:28
I think that both men and women old
20:31
but in different senses and I think that one
20:35
in sometimes I'd I have the impression
20:38
men and women no tremendously narcissistic concussion from each other
20:43
by their images themselves but it whereas the woman's
20:46
image herself is derived directly from other people
20:51
mirror you're talking about a man's image of himself
20:55
is derived from world that is
20:58
it's the world gives him back his image because he acts in it
21:02
and and women are drawn to him as a source
21:06
a central activity and as the
21:09
a salsa were me since he is in the world the fact she values her
21:14
is important and and so because they're supercenters
21:18
narcissus different and the woman's is essentially
21:23
only related to the other person she's much more passive position
21:27
mentioned yes do you see
21:32
you see narcissism essentially a and
21:36
a negative or positive well
21:41
i think thats very difficult to answer but
21:44
in the sense that which is related to identity
21:47
I'm it supposed to film and it seems to me that what women Indian men
21:53
the times they have sent to the identity that
21:56
there is it something in them which is important to them other them simply what
22:00
other people think
22:01
them and I think that that think is the product to their interaction with
22:06
world people and its so true
22:09
it's almost as if through this interaction actually build up a stall
22:13
all were sense it themselves
22:16
I'm which it which is a constant I mean it can't be lost
22:21
but because the woman doesn't go out a nap she doesn't create the store
22:25
she waits only for the present interaction
22:29
that and that can go that can just ended any moment
22:33
up
22:40
strap occur
22:43
classicism is he sold
22:46
paramount's way they
22:50
a should
22:54
but a.m. this
22:57
other question which is contained within it yes
23:02
and it is
23:06
this sort itself delight at the Perth
23:09
whether it's an all in
23:13
lie what they're doing relationships
23:17
with men or women and
23:21
it a thing met as Shin and is not only a kind
23:27
in a thing I which with it
23:30
but is it really after in by which
23:34
to gay in relationships with you know I'm context
23:39
well but you can't gain any other way bit
23:42
its when you have some have been made some countries
23:48
now yet you easily
23:51
naturally so compulsively girl to
23:55
whatever is going on you now we're not
23:59
child that 10 northern
24:02
with people to be on p with
24:05
mansions 3 this will you
24:09
girl a.m. her
24:12
and then only grant you as
24:16
on you make this kind
24:19
absolutely necessary
24:22
contact with people but I do think
24:27
that the soda essence
24:31
self tonight as kinda possible thing
24:35
in the modern world them something that fewer women have remained
24:39
and won't months is
24:43
the other compulsion not the
24:46
the compulsion to make
24:49
contact with the world as you are living in it
24:52
my said just me the people next door
24:56
print I simply pockets going
24:59
item
25:02
sure about the delight I think it's very HH thing
25:05
I'm I know as is for several reasons
25:09
I became aware film I have never consciously look at myself in the mirror
25:13
and see myself as I am
25:16
I only seen image that I want I know
25:19
my children notice it if I make up my face I put on them
25:22
question if I from adolescence on
25:26
if I see myself naked Miller not for metals naked I told myself is a new
25:30
and I think this campaign I G from having being tailed
25:34
major his culture his beauty
25:38
capital be and course up to a point from advertising
25:43
to much more the painting am
25:46
that you use you think the female body
25:50
is beautiful I am beautiful object if not I have to do something about it
25:54
am and therefore the painful part narcissistic
25:58
hitting the feeling inadequate see am
26:01
now this businesses always posing in the mirror
26:05
I think wonder absolutely automatically and without
26:08
is it if you actually catch shoot up in america
26:12
am by chance not deliberately because you didn't list
26:16
had a ball but because there's one in street you capture so
26:20
in in a shop window if the two men shot because in some ECU
26:24
as you are which windblown untidy
26:27
badly dressed tired and so on don't see the pose little
26:31
and I think this is what happens to women but they always trying to measure
26:35
up to the
26:35
erotic images projected
26:39
that are some paintings and I think
26:42
at this moment particular one painting where there's a woman
26:45
who is wary gone she's not nude but it is a garment sew
26:50
loose so comfortable so easy
26:55
and is my idea very much on of
26:58
of want a picture of a woman might be like
27:02
it I think it's actually before your period on this is so long ago and it
27:05
sits by Lauren city
27:07
it comes in the good and bad government its fresco it's very very old
27:11
you know and it is a picture of a woman we supposed to represent
27:15
peace it's quite extraordinary but she could be one
27:18
of the liberators are trying to the liberators young women
27:22
today she's at ease she is relaxed
27:26
she's not me any part at all she is
27:30
able to combine occasional thoughts
27:34
and was dreaming and she's she might spring into action
27:38
any moment and I for me
27:41
she she has much much more to do with
27:46
with with nakedness with oneself with the truth about himself and he number
27:50
youth C
27:56
on
28:04
and the third party way to seeing is here at the same time tomorrow
28:08
next tonight and you Graham Dixon is at the Tate Modern print exhibition by Max
28:12
Beckmann
28:14
0

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999