Men
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dream of women
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women dream themselves being dreamt of
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men look at women
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women watch themselves being looked at the
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well
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to
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do
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women constantly meet glances which act like news
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reminding them how they look my homage minimum
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behind the big runs you an email
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sometimes the grounds the medium is the island
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reflected back from a real man I'll
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you
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the
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to
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a woman is always accompanied except when 2011
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perhaps even then
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I had an image asylum
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while she's walking across a poem weeping in the desert like
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she cannot avoid the envisaging self walking
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a weeping from the earliest childhood cheese torte and persuaded
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to survey herself continually the
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chance to survey everything she is everything she does
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because how she appears to others and particularly hard it is to men
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the is a crucial importance the
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partisan only sort of success I'll
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Don
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0
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do
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do
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0
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E in
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a woman in the culture of privileged europeans
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is first and foremost site to be looked at what kind of site
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is revealed in the average European oil painting
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the reporters that women as a reporter's men
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but in one category of painting women with the principal
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ever coming subject that category was the nude
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in the news that European painting we can discover some of the
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criteria and conventions by which women would charge
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we can see how women was seen what then is in you
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in his book on the new would Kenneth Clarke says that
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being naked is simply being without clothes
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the new would according to him
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is a former Oct I would put it differently
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to be naked is to be oneself to be new food
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is to be seen naked by others and yet not recognized for oneself
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a nude has to be seen as object
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in order to be unused in the European oil painting
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nakedness is not taken for granted as an archaic
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Oct nakedness is a site for those who addressed
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that is why man is painting which way to mark the end of the period I'm
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considering
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is so profound the comment on all the works which proceeded
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the story begins
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with the story Adam and Eve as told in Genesis and when the woman saw that the
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tree was good for food
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and it was a delight to the eyes and the tree was to be desired
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to make one wise she took the fruit they're all and did eat
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she gave also and her husband with her and he'd
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and I is them both were opened and they knew that they were naked
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and the Lord God called on to the man and said unto him
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where art thou he said I heard my voice in the garden and I was afraid
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because I was naked and I hate myself unto the woman
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got said I will greatly multiply by sorrow
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and I conception in sorrow that I shall bring forth children
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and I desire to be to my husband and he shall rule
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over the two things are striking about this story
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they become aware being naked because
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as a result to beating the Apple each sees
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the other differently nakedness is created
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in the mind of the beholder the second striking fact
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is that the woman is blamed and is punished
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by being made subservient to the man in relation to the woman
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the man becomes agent of God in medieval art
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the stories often illustrated seen following see
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as in A Streetcar to in during the Renaissance
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the narrative sequence disappears and the single moment
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which is nearly always depicted is a moment shape
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the couple left figleaves
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or make a modest gesture with their hands but now
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their shame is not so much in relation to one another as to the spectator
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it is the spectators looking which aims them
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later as painting became more secular
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many other subjects offered the opportunity continues
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but always in the European tradition the new
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implies and awareness being seen
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by the spectator they are not
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naked as they are they are naked
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as you see them
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often as with the favorite subject Susanna and the elders
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this is the actual theme a picture we join the elders
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to spy on her she looks back at us
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looking at a sometimes the woman suzanna
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looks at herself in a pictured to herself
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how men see her she sees herself
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first and foremost as a site which means
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site for men nice the Miller became a symbol
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the vanity of women get the mail hypocrisy in this is blatant
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you paint a naked woman because you enjoy looking at a
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you put in there were in hand and you call the painting vanity
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does Molly condemning the woman whose nakedness you have depicted
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for your own pleasure and us incidently
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repeating the biblical example by blaming the woman
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the judgment of Paris
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was another favorite mythological subject with the same in written idea
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up man looking at naked women and judging Paris
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towards the Apple to the woman he finds most beautiful
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duty in this context is bound
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to become competitive the judgment of Paris
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is transformed into the beauty contest aesthetics when applied to women
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are not as disinterested as the word beauty
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might suggest I don't want to deny
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the crucial part that see place in sexuality
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but there's a great difference between being seen as oneself
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naked or seeing another in that way at a body
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been put on display to be naked
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is to be without disguise to be on display
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is to have the surface of one's own skin the has a one's own body
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turned into a disguise a disguise which
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cannot be discarded amongst the tens of thousands of European oil paintings at
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Newlands
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perhaps twenty 30 exceptions
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paintings in which the artist seen the woman the field
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as herself this rubin's
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this rembrandt
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this George 2.2 these paintings are as personal as love times
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and that character is quite distinctive most you'd seen oil paintings
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have been lined up by their painters for the pleasure
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the male spectator owner who will assess
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and judge them as sites that nudity is another former dress
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they are condemned to never be naked with their clothes off
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they are as formal as with their clothes on
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those who are not judged beautiful are not
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beautiful those who are are given the prize
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applies is to be held that is to say
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to be available Charles the Second
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commission to this secret painting from Lee it's like hundreds of others
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it might be Venus and Cupid but in fact
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it was a portrait one of his mistresses Nell Gwyn it shows how passively looking
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at the spectator
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staring at her naked her nakedness
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is not an expression happened feedings it is only a sign
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a submission to his demand painting when he shows it to others
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demonstrates the submission his guests in
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him by contrast in another tradition
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nakedness is a celebration active six your luved
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as between two people the woman as activism and
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the actions that each absorb the other
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in oil painting
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the second question or a second person who matters
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is a stranger looking at the picture compared the expression
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these two women when the model for what is considered a masterpiece by EIN
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the other until paid model for photograph in a girlie magazine
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of these two just the expression
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look RTC it seems to me that in each pair
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the expression is remarkably similar and his expression
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responding with calculated charm to the man
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whom she knows is looking at a although she doesn't know him it is true that
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sometimes a painting includes a male lover
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but the woman's attention is very very
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directed towards him she looks away from him she looks out of the picture
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towards he who considers himself a true lover
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the spectator this painting was sent as a present from the Grand Duke of loans
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the King of France the boy kneeling on the cushion and kissing a woman
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is Cupid she's penis but the way her body is arranged has nothing to do
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without kissing a body is arranged the way it is
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to display it to the man looking at the picture the picture is made
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to appeal to kids sexuality has nothing to do with her sexuality
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the conventional not picking the half on a woman's body
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helps towards the same and hair is associated with sexual part with passion
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the woman sex or passion needs to be minimized
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so that the spectator may feel that he has a monopoly
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such passion there were paintings
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which depicted male lovers sees that exist but they were mostly private
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simi pornographic pictures in most paintings which were painted to be seen
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rather than hidden the only rival to the male spectator
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is a cupid how extraordinary it is
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the pictorial symbol a passion was a small boy
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for a similar reason women in the European onto the art painting
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a seldom shown dancing they have to be shown
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languid exhibiting minimum energy they are there to feed
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an appetite not to have any of their own the appetite
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was theoretically gargantuan
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the absurdity of this male factory
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although it was not seen as upset then reached its peak
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in the public academic Oct at the 19th century prime ministers discussed
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under paintings like this when one of them felt he'd been outwitted
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he looked up for consolation
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the new in European oil painting is usually presented as an
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ideal subject it is said to be an expression from the European
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humanists do it I don't want to reject entirely the truth to this
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but I've tried to add to it starting off from a different viewpoint
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dealer who believed in the ideal nude
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sort to this ideal could be constructed
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by taking the shoulders one body the hands of another
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the best another and so on
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was this humanist idealism
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or was it was out have an indifference to who any one person
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really was do these paintings
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celebrate as we normally talked the women within them
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or the mail wire
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is that sexuality within the frame
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or in front of it I showed the program
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as you have seen it up till now 25 women
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it began to seem absurd that the only images you were seeing
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women silent newt so I showed it to them
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and ask them to comment to comment not so much on the program but rather on the
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questions raised by it
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above all on the question of how men see women or have seen them in the past
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and how this influences the way women see themselves today
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we have an English course will happen image sensitive issue
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image but I wonder how much
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the sort of classical European painting
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has shaped that image in my own case I find it quite impossible when I look at
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the paint institution
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your film I can take them seriously I cannot identify with them because they
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are so immensely
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exaggerated police you know the fasten home to some
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secondary sexual characteristics release norms
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Press great be to beastin bottoms and a huge things like that
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and they just aren't real whereas with photographs
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I'm you can you can feel that is potentially that's possibly me although
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the it probably isn't but these these
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nearly all the paintings you have shown I'll what is
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called idealized am and therefore
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they are to me very unreal in connection with
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with any deep down image that I might have myself
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and in connection with any deep down pleasure that I might have
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in looking at another female body they don't give me that
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engine tall can moms painting
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but the on the they don't mean human beings to me
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I'm the image that I compare myself with is the photograph
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because it's with photographs that I've been encouraged to think for myself
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this weight is essentially advertising me that's contributed to this
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and consequently I find it extremely interesting to go back
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and think newt's in this way because I've never done sir
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having seen the film I have no doubt that the same thing plants
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and do you find that they knew it in painting under the
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in the same way yes
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will you come get any information from it minute
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snow guide to execute a one-time animation is lacking
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oh well activity unit dynamism anything
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it is has someone sees you in that something later
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on I'm glad you showed them any picture
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because I always find is extreme shocking
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because the men address and women a naked
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and he seems to be some the whole situation is a humiliating
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position and women are will be
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am and I think this is whole scheme teams and
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at most people have had and something to nightmares about
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lenses peaks nothing incidents
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and this seems to me one and picked
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I'm very interesting thing you said in the film was
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about how nudity
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was really a kind of disguise it wasn't the real person themselves and free
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but it was just another comment wearing and worse than a garment in a sense
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because
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something that you can take off this comes I think
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from nudity being combined with the polls
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and that's inevitable if you're going to have a painting over model
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bomb in a way
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i think thats we're always dress always dressing up for a part
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always on putting on a uniform of one kind or another
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and I think women do this almost more than men have only begun doing he said
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he recently
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women are always getting to show the kind of character
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what they want to percent the mother the working woman
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the pretty young chick are and nudity
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is a uniformed in a way for
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I'm ready now for sexual pleasure you see
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and so it doesn't YouTube you can't come you can't identify being nude
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with being free only just recently read
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that look eastward do which describes them
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way in which room is reduced for sexy special mention
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with to complete object and what struck me in all that
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book as the most impressive image was the fact that
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she was told that she was never
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to touch her breasts to entirely clothes from a
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all too close or to put her legs together
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and so the whole point about her stance all the time with cheese available
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and this the sense being available the senses waiting for other people
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is the antithesis in action and
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eat unit just like the home the book street be right there Smith
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Tony hasn't run you know he's finished lotioning
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and you feel this whole situation number when you talk to you say
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I stay in seven nights a week waiting for somebody to rain
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the concept availability implies facility because
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if you simply want somebody else to act when you contact
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yes it's is lack and you awake
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when the man tapped mmm kisses him
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rising and I'm made it an excuse to get yourself
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I think you need to shine
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there waiting
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to him yes yes could I say something about narcissism
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I think that both men and women old
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but in different senses and I think that one
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in sometimes I'd I have the impression
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men and women no tremendously narcissistic concussion from each other
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by their images themselves but it whereas the woman's
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image herself is derived directly from other people
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mirror you're talking about a man's image of himself
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is derived from world that is
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it's the world gives him back his image because he acts in it
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and and women are drawn to him as a source
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a central activity and as the
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a salsa were me since he is in the world the fact she values her
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is important and and so because they're supercenters
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narcissus different and the woman's is essentially
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only related to the other person she's much more passive position
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mentioned yes do you see
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you see narcissism essentially a and
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a negative or positive well
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i think thats very difficult to answer but
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in the sense that which is related to identity
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I'm it supposed to film and it seems to me that what women Indian men
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the times they have sent to the identity that
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there is it something in them which is important to them other them simply what
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other people think
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them and I think that that think is the product to their interaction with
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world people and its so true
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it's almost as if through this interaction actually build up a stall
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all were sense it themselves
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I'm which it which is a constant I mean it can't be lost
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but because the woman doesn't go out a nap she doesn't create the store
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she waits only for the present interaction
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that and that can go that can just ended any moment
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up
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strap occur
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classicism is he sold
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paramount's way they
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a should
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but a.m. this
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other question which is contained within it yes
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and it is
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this sort itself delight at the Perth
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whether it's an all in
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lie what they're doing relationships
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with men or women and
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it a thing met as Shin and is not only a kind
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in a thing I which with it
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but is it really after in by which
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to gay in relationships with you know I'm context
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well but you can't gain any other way bit
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its when you have some have been made some countries
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now yet you easily
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naturally so compulsively girl to
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whatever is going on you now we're not
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child that 10 northern
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with people to be on p with
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mansions 3 this will you
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girl a.m. her
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and then only grant you as
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on you make this kind
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absolutely necessary
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contact with people but I do think
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that the soda essence
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self tonight as kinda possible thing
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in the modern world them something that fewer women have remained
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and won't months is
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the other compulsion not the
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the compulsion to make
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contact with the world as you are living in it
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my said just me the people next door
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print I simply pockets going
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item
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sure about the delight I think it's very HH thing
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I'm I know as is for several reasons
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I became aware film I have never consciously look at myself in the mirror
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and see myself as I am
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I only seen image that I want I know
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my children notice it if I make up my face I put on them
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question if I from adolescence on
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if I see myself naked Miller not for metals naked I told myself is a new
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and I think this campaign I G from having being tailed
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major his culture his beauty
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capital be and course up to a point from advertising
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to much more the painting am
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that you use you think the female body
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is beautiful I am beautiful object if not I have to do something about it
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am and therefore the painful part narcissistic
25:58
hitting the feeling inadequate see am
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now this businesses always posing in the mirror
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I think wonder absolutely automatically and without
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is it if you actually catch shoot up in america
26:12
am by chance not deliberately because you didn't list
26:16
had a ball but because there's one in street you capture so
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in in a shop window if the two men shot because in some ECU
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as you are which windblown untidy
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badly dressed tired and so on don't see the pose little
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and I think this is what happens to women but they always trying to measure
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up to the
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erotic images projected
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that are some paintings and I think
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at this moment particular one painting where there's a woman
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who is wary gone she's not nude but it is a garment sew
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loose so comfortable so easy
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and is my idea very much on of
26:58
of want a picture of a woman might be like
27:02
it I think it's actually before your period on this is so long ago and it
27:05
sits by Lauren city
27:07
it comes in the good and bad government its fresco it's very very old
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you know and it is a picture of a woman we supposed to represent
27:15
peace it's quite extraordinary but she could be one
27:18
of the liberators are trying to the liberators young women
27:22
today she's at ease she is relaxed
27:26
she's not me any part at all she is
27:30
able to combine occasional thoughts
27:34
and was dreaming and she's she might spring into action
27:38
any moment and I for me
27:41
she she has much much more to do with
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with with nakedness with oneself with the truth about himself and he number
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youth C
27:56
on
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and the third party way to seeing is here at the same time tomorrow
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next tonight and you Graham Dixon is at the Tate Modern print exhibition by Max
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Beckmann
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