[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:08.44,0:00:10.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Take a half a step this way.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:11.24,0:00:12.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's it.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:13.20,0:00:14.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay, are we kind of–
Dialogue: 0,0:00:15.59,0:00:18.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Oh, I know what I'd better do\Nis just check my sound on this.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:20.00,0:00:22.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's– no, it's kind of nice.\NThe black is good.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:22.06,0:00:23.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Better?\N-Yeah. Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:27.88,0:00:31.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-There was one singer I knew\NWho used to– always first, she'd
Dialogue: 0,0:00:31.36,0:00:34.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,start the day by checking if her\Nvoice was there, and she'd go...
Dialogue: 0,0:00:34.41,0:00:36.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[hums an arpeggio]\N-Okay.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:36.00,0:00:38.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-The high--those kind\Nof crazy sounds.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:38.36,0:00:39.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Okay.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:39.16,0:00:41.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-The piece that's being made\Nhere is designed to be shown on
Dialogue: 0,0:00:41.88,0:00:45.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the fire screen at La Fenice\NOpera House in Venice.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:45.12,0:00:47.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the principle is that they\Nget– have a projection on the
Dialogue: 0,0:00:47.24,0:00:49.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fire screen while the audience\Ncomes in and the orchestra is
Dialogue: 0,0:00:49.80,0:00:51.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tuning up.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:51.39,0:01:02.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[singing arpeggios]
Dialogue: 0,0:01:02.08,0:01:04.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[singing over cell phone]
Dialogue: 0,0:01:04.24,0:01:04.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hello.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:04.84,0:01:07.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hello, this is the–
Dialogue: 0,0:01:07.16,0:01:12.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is the pianist calling, all\Nthe way from William's house.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:12.71,0:01:14.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[chuckles]\NSo, Kim,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:14.92,0:01:17.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What I'll do is, I'll play you\Nsome chords,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:17.40,0:01:19.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then I'm gonna kind of play\Nalong with you a little bit,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:19.96,0:01:20.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay?
Dialogue: 0,0:01:20.80,0:01:21.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Okay.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:21.80,0:01:24.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Hold on.\NI'm going to speak to you now.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:24.96,0:01:28.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hold on.\NOkay, let's put that there.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:31.04,0:01:33.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just talk a bit.\NSing– sing a bit.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:33.96,0:01:39.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[singing in foreign language]
Dialogue: 0,0:01:39.66,0:01:40.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Good. Hang on.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:40.63,0:01:42.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm just trying to line this up.\NThat's all right.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:42.84,0:01:45.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay, all right, here we go.\NAll right.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:45.36,0:01:47.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[plays arpeggios on piano]
Dialogue: 0,0:01:47.59,0:01:50.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Can you hear the–\N-Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:50.40,0:01:52.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Okay.\NWhen you're ready.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:52.04,0:01:53.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Okay.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:53.41,0:02:23.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[singing opera music]
Dialogue: 0,0:02:23.84,0:02:25.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Kimmy? Kimmy? Stop.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:25.96,0:02:26.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Okay.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:26.76,0:02:28.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Okay, let's just do that phrase...
Dialogue: 0,0:02:31.66,0:02:34.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[plays tune on piano]
Dialogue: 0,0:02:34.04,0:02:35.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Let me just say something to\Nyou and Philip.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:35.60,0:02:36.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Okay.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:36.36,0:02:40.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Okay, to both of you.\NPhil?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:40.76,0:02:44.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sorry, William here.\NOne of the things that would be
Dialogue: 0,0:02:44.40,0:02:50.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,good is to not so much repeat\Na whole phrase but to jump–
Dialogue: 0,0:02:50.92,0:02:53.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to break in the middle\Nof a phrase and repeat.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:53.80,0:02:56.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So like where you've got,\N"Babbo, pieta,"
Dialogue: 0,0:02:56.56,0:02:58.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But to...\NBabbo pie–
Dialogue: 0,0:02:58.40,0:03:00.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Babbo pie–
Dialogue: 0,0:03:00.04,0:03:01.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Try this– when you complete it
Dialogue: 0,0:03:01.80,0:03:06.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the "Ta," it feels too\Nelegant as a completed gesture.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:09.30,0:03:21.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[singing in foreign language]
Dialogue: 0,0:03:22.81,0:03:23.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.\NOkay.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:26.28,0:03:28.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Make a stripe with the\Nbias cut?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:28.92,0:03:29.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Or you prefer what?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:32.44,0:03:33.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- I don't know.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:33.79,0:03:40.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[both speaking quietly]
Dialogue: 0,0:03:40.40,0:03:41.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I work with a wonderful opera
Dialogue: 0,0:03:41.84,0:03:45.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,singer who lives in Cape Town.\Nso I called her, and I said,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:45.60,0:03:49.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Kimmy, would you sing this\Narietta on the phone, and I'll
Dialogue: 0,0:03:49.16,0:03:51.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sort of sit at the piano and\Ngive you the key.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:51.40,0:03:56.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It has a sort of uncanny sound\Nof both old and modern and
Dialogue: 0,0:03:56.04,0:03:57.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,contemporary.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:58.44,0:03:59.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Initially, he'd– I think he'd
Dialogue: 0,0:03:59.48,0:04:02.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,done the recording on the cell\Nphone as a guide track.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:02.56,0:04:03.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then when we heard the\Nrecording on the cell phone, we
Dialogue: 0,0:04:03.96,0:04:08.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,said let's keep it and work with\Nthat strange, caruso-esque,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:08.24,0:04:12.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,old quality of the voice,\Nwhich is why today there are–
Dialogue: 0,0:04:12.42,0:04:15.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're working with images of\NKimmy on the cell phone.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:15.76,0:04:16.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-It was just one of those
Dialogue: 0,0:04:16.68,0:04:19.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,moments which happened when\NI work with William, where we
Dialogue: 0,0:04:19.16,0:04:22.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,both went off and played,\Nand the playing worked.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:22.64,0:04:25.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's one of the things about\Nworking with William that
Dialogue: 0,0:04:25.88,0:04:30.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I enjoy so much is the ability\Nto play and experiment.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:30.56,0:04:33.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[singing high notes]\N[voice breaks slightly]
Dialogue: 0,0:04:33.65,0:04:34.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[clears throat]
Dialogue: 0,0:04:35.79,0:04:42.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[crackly recording\Nof Kimmy singing]
Dialogue: 0,0:04:42.46,0:04:43.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I suppose the first
Dialogue: 0,0:04:43.56,0:04:47.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,promptings to work as an artist\Nare still there.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.12,0:04:49.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The questions haven't changed.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:49.52,0:04:53.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How does one find a way of\Nnot necessarily illustrating
Dialogue: 0,0:04:53.88,0:04:57.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the society that one lives in\Nbut allowing what happens there
Dialogue: 0,0:04:57.00,0:04:59.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be part of the work,\Npart of the vocabulary,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:59.24,0:05:03.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,part of the raw material\Nthat is dealt with.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:03.04,0:05:06.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,South Africa is very much\Npart of the work.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:07.34,0:05:11.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Kimmy's singing continues]\N[singing fades out]
Dialogue: 0,0:05:11.03,0:05:21.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[somber instrumental music]
Dialogue: 0,0:05:21.91,0:05:24.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The important thing about the\Nfirst animated films I made is,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:24.24,0:05:28.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they were done as a response to\Ndoing something which I thought
Dialogue: 0,0:05:28.84,0:05:31.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I understood, which was making\Ncharcoal drawings.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:31.64,0:05:34.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So they were done on the basis\Nof trying to get away from
Dialogue: 0,0:05:34.44,0:05:36.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a program of doing drawings,\Nhaving exhibitions, in which
Dialogue: 0,0:05:36.84,0:05:40.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I could see my life heading out\Nahead of me, 13 more solo
Dialogue: 0,0:05:40.36,0:05:42.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,exhibitions of charcoal\Ndrawings.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:42.40,0:05:44.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I decided I had to do\Nsomething that couldn't possibly
Dialogue: 0,0:05:44.60,0:05:47.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fit into that context, that\Nwasn't going to be in a gallery,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:47.40,0:05:50.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was done for my own\Ninterest and pleasure,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:51.14,0:05:54.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Soho and Felix came out\Nof that.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:57.96,0:05:59.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was no expectation they
Dialogue: 0,0:05:59.08,0:06:02.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would be part of the real work\NI was doing, that they would
Dialogue: 0,0:06:02.04,0:06:05.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have to be understood or justify\Nthemselves in a broader world
Dialogue: 0,0:06:05.28,0:06:08.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at all or that they had to even\Nhave a logic to them.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:08.64,0:06:09.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It doesn't matter if there isn't
Dialogue: 0,0:06:09.56,0:06:11.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a story because it's not trying\Nto sell it to a producer;
Dialogue: 0,0:06:11.80,0:06:14.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's not starting with\Ndistribution.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:14.00,0:06:16.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's starting with its own crazy\Nlogic, so it doesn't matter
Dialogue: 0,0:06:16.64,0:06:18.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who these two characters are\Nor what their names are.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:18.24,0:06:19.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They don't have to represent
Dialogue: 0,0:06:19.56,0:06:21.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,anyone but themselves in the film.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:22.64,0:06:24.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It took me a long time to\Nkind of understand that, and
Dialogue: 0,0:06:24.40,0:06:26.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was the substantive work\NI was doing.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:26.60,0:06:28.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so that experience gave me
Dialogue: 0,0:06:28.12,0:06:31.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of confidence in the\Nvalidity of working without
Dialogue: 0,0:06:31.64,0:06:35.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a program, without the essay\Nbeing written in advance.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:35.76,0:06:37.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I made a decision I would never
Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.76,0:06:40.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ever write a script; I would\Nnever write a storyboard;
Dialogue: 0,0:06:40.80,0:06:42.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would never ever write\Na proposal.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:43.82,0:06:45.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[water burbling]
Dialogue: 0,0:06:45.26,0:06:48.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The history of Jews in South\NAfrica is quite complex in the
Dialogue: 0,0:06:48.76,0:06:52.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sense that there were, as there\Nare in all parts of the world,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:52.00,0:06:55.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an absolute overrepresentative\Nnumber of Jewish people who were
Dialogue: 0,0:06:55.12,0:06:57.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,iInvolved in liberation\Nstruggles, in fights against
Dialogue: 0,0:06:57.72,0:07:01.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,apartheid, who had very\Nhonorable, ethical,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:01.68,0:07:03.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and moral lives.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:03.40,0:07:04.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there were also a large
Dialogue: 0,0:07:04.36,0:07:07.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,number of Jewish people who did\Nvery well under the nationalist
Dialogue: 0,0:07:07.00,0:07:09.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,government, who made a lot of\Nmoney through it.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:11.62,0:07:13.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[faint, repetitive tapping]
Dialogue: 0,0:07:13.47,0:07:16.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The depiction of Soho and Felix,\Nwho are both Jewish,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:16.65,0:07:19.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so in the– Soho's a Jewish\Nbusinessman.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:20.80,0:07:22.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It has to do with that\Ndouble edge.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:22.00,0:07:23.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It would have been very easy to\Nhave done– say, "Okay, I'm gonna
Dialogue: 0,0:07:23.80,0:07:27.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,draw a terrible Afrikaner and\Nmake him entirely separate and
Dialogue: 0,0:07:27.12,0:07:28.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,distant from myself."
Dialogue: 0,0:07:29.61,0:07:32.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whereas, the Soho is a kind of
Dialogue: 0,0:07:32.36,0:07:34.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understanding that that's part\Nof who I am.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:34.92,0:07:37.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The pinstripe– someone who\Nalways wears a pinstripe suit
Dialogue: 0,0:07:37.08,0:07:38.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is from a photograph of my\Ngrandfather.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:39.84,0:07:41.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The two names came out
Dialogue: 0,0:07:41.04,0:07:43.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a dream, and it came out of\Nthe period when I said, "I'm
Dialogue: 0,0:07:43.12,0:07:44.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,making this film for myself.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:44.16,0:07:45.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't have to question
Dialogue: 0,0:07:45.64,0:07:47.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who these names are\Nor what they mean."
Dialogue: 0,0:07:52.16,0:07:53.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[cat meows]
Dialogue: 0,0:07:55.56,0:07:57.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I then understood later on\Nthat they're both a kind of
Dialogue: 0,0:07:57.88,0:08:01.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,self-portrait, a self-portrait\Nin the third person,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:01.08,0:08:02.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a place self-portrait.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:03.08,0:08:04.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the films have had to
Dialogue: 0,0:08:05.32,0:08:08.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Either defend themselves or\Nignore, but they've certainly
Dialogue: 0,0:08:08.44,0:08:10.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,been accused of anti-semitism.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:11.16,0:08:12.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In many ways, the work seems
Dialogue: 0,0:08:12.36,0:08:16.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unbearably semitic to me,\Nin the sense it deals endlessly
Dialogue: 0,0:08:16.00,0:08:19.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with memory, with loss, all the\Nkind of cliches that you think,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:19.84,0:08:22.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Oh, this is what a Jewish\Nartist is going to be talking about,"
Dialogue: 0,0:08:22.12,0:08:24.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's kind of distressing\Nfor me that they get
Dialogue: 0,0:08:24.12,0:08:27.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,stuck in that terrain, but that\Nis where they are.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:33.68,0:08:36.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The films opened an enormous\Ndoors because they gave me
Dialogue: 0,0:08:36.16,0:08:40.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a sense that it was possible\Nto work without a program
Dialogue: 0,0:08:40.20,0:08:42.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in advance and that it was\Npossible to make a film without
Dialogue: 0,0:08:42.92,0:08:44.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,first having written a script...
Dialogue: 0,0:08:44.68,0:08:49.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[woman singing]\NThat if you work
Dialogue: 0,0:08:49.24,0:08:52.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conscientiously and hard at it\Nand there is something inside
Dialogue: 0,0:08:52.24,0:08:54.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you that is of interest, that is\Nwhat will come out.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:54.16,0:08:57.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You yourself will be the film.\NThe film will always be you.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:58.76,0:09:00.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think a lot of the work that\NI've done since then,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:00.64,0:09:03.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even if it's not using\Nthat technique, has certainly
Dialogue: 0,0:09:03.12,0:09:06.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,used that strategy,\Nthe understanding that images
Dialogue: 0,0:09:06.24,0:09:08.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and movement as well as\Nstatic images are a key thing
Dialogue: 0,0:09:08.64,0:09:10.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for me to be working on.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:10.68,0:09:12.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The provisionality of drawings,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:12.00,0:09:14.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the fact that they're going to\Nbe succeeded by the next stage
Dialogue: 0,0:09:14.08,0:09:18.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the drawing, was very good\Nfor someone who's bad at knowing
Dialogue: 0,0:09:18.04,0:09:20.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when to commit something to\Nbeing finished, to say,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:20.56,0:09:21.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"When is this drawing finished?"
Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.96,0:09:22.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Here, the drawing would go on
Dialogue: 0,0:09:22.92,0:09:25.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,till the sequence was finished\Nin the film, and that would be
Dialogue: 0,0:09:25.28,0:09:26.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the end point of the drawing...
Dialogue: 0,0:09:26.42,0:09:28.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[faint rumbling]
Dialogue: 0,0:09:28.74,0:09:31.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Understanding of the world\Nas process rather than as fact.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:32.84,0:09:35.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And temperamentally, all of\Nthose things made sense to me,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:35.48,0:09:37.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And intellectually they made\Nsense to me.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:37.76,0:09:39.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And somehow this technique and
Dialogue: 0,0:09:39.40,0:09:44.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this medium emphasized or\Nallowed that to come forward.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:45.66,0:09:46.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[cat meows]
Dialogue: 0,0:10:06.42,0:10:08.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the anamorphic film
Dialogue: 0,0:10:08.76,0:10:10.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What Will Come Has Already\Nwhich is about the
Dialogue: 0,0:10:10.80,0:10:13.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Italian-Ethiopian war\Nof the 1930s,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:13.56,0:10:16.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,works on the principle that what\Nis distorted in the projection
Dialogue: 0,0:10:16.76,0:10:20.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gets corrected in the viewers'\Nseeing of it in a mirror.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:21.12,0:10:22.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the distortion is the
Dialogue: 0,0:10:22.56,0:10:25.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,correction, and the original\Nis the distorted.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:27.92,0:10:29.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the things of doing the\Nfilm, or doing the drawings,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:29.84,0:10:32.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was learning the grammar of the\Ntransformations that happen when
Dialogue: 0,0:10:32.48,0:10:35.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you go from a flat surface to\Nthe curved mirror.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:35.40,0:10:36.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that, for example, to draw
Dialogue: 0,0:10:36.84,0:10:41.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a straight line is relatively\Ncomplicated because every
Dialogue: 0,0:10:41.64,0:10:44.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,straight line is in fact\Na curve, whereas every straight
Dialogue: 0,0:10:44.76,0:10:47.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,line that you draw becomes\Na parabola.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:47.96,0:10:49.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So loops, telephone wires\Nare very easy.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:49.92,0:10:51.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Simply draw a series of straight
Dialogue: 0,0:10:51.00,0:10:53.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lines on the drawing, and the\Nlines will loop themselves
Dialogue: 0,0:10:53.72,0:10:56.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,around the surface of the\Ncylinder.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:57.64,0:11:00.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whereas if you want a straight\Nline, you've got to calculate
Dialogue: 0,0:11:00.44,0:11:02.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a not obvious curve on the\Nsheet of paper.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:02.82,0:11:06.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[festive folk music]
Dialogue: 0,0:11:06.23,0:11:09.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm interested in machines that\Ntell you what it is to look,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:10.28,0:11:13.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that make you aware of the\Nprocess of seeing and make you
Dialogue: 0,0:11:13.60,0:11:16.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,aware of what do you do when you\Nconstruct the world by looking
Dialogue: 0,0:11:16.40,0:11:20.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at it, but more, as looking and\Nseeing being a metaphor, or
Dialogue: 0,0:11:20.44,0:11:22.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a broad-based metaphor, for how\Nwe go through the world,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:22.60,0:11:25.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how we understand the world,\Nfor thinking or understanding,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:26.24,0:11:28.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When you look through\Na stereoscopic viewer,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:28.36,0:11:32.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're aware that you have two\Ncompletely flat images and that
Dialogue: 0,0:11:32.40,0:11:34.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all that is happening is that\Nyour brain– not the images,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:34.52,0:11:38.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but your brain– is constructing\Nan illusion of three-dimensional depth,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:38.64,0:11:40.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is very clear when\Nyou look at the stereoscopic
Dialogue: 0,0:11:40.48,0:11:42.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,viewer because you know you're\Nseeing two flat images.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:43.76,0:11:45.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What's much less obvious is that
Dialogue: 0,0:11:45.08,0:11:46.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's we're doing all the time\Nin the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:46.52,0:11:48.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our retinas are each receiving
Dialogue: 0,0:11:48.48,0:11:52.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,flat images, and our brain\Ncombines the two images from our
Dialogue: 0,0:11:52.20,0:11:55.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,retinas into this illusion of\Ncoherent depth, and because we
Dialogue: 0,0:11:55.44,0:11:57.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do it so well, we believe that's\Nwhat we see.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:57.12,0:11:59.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We believe we are simply\Nseeing depth rather than
Dialogue: 0,0:11:59.32,0:12:02.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we are constructing depth out of\Ntwo flat images in our eyes.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:03.00,0:12:05.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that, again, is both\Ninteresting about the phenomenon
Dialogue: 0,0:12:05.56,0:12:09.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the wow factor of\Nstereoscopes always, but it's
Dialogue: 0,0:12:09.48,0:12:13.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more about the agency we have,\Nwhether we like it or not,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:13.04,0:12:14.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make sense of the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:16.68,0:12:18.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When the metropolitan opera said
Dialogue: 0,0:12:18.12,0:12:20.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they wanted me to do an opera,\Nwe spent a long time trying to
Dialogue: 0,0:12:20.44,0:12:21.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,find one that seemed\Nappropriate.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:22.72,0:12:24.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They suggested Shostakovich.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:24.56,0:12:28.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I said yes to Shostakovich,\Nbut first prize for me would be The Nose.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:31.12,0:12:32.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've always wanted to do
Dialogue: 0,0:12:32.20,0:12:34.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a Russian project, which is to\Nsay, a project in which all
Dialogue: 0,0:12:34.88,0:12:36.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those different things could be\Nlooked at, which is the
Dialogue: 0,0:12:36.92,0:12:41.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,political history, the formal\Nelements of modernism and
Dialogue: 0,0:12:41.44,0:12:44.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cnstructivism, and the poetry\Nand the writing.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:46.03,0:12:47.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They all come into the\NThe Nose;
Dialogue: 0,0:12:47.96,0:12:49.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not all of them into the opera,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:49.52,0:12:52.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of course, but chunks of them\Ninto what we had at Sydney,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:53.68,0:12:55.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I Am Not Me, The Horse is Not Mine
Dialogue: 0,0:12:55.68,0:12:58.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and various other\Niterations of the material.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:14.64,0:13:15.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There'll be houselights on and
Dialogue: 0,0:13:15.68,0:13:18.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all the projections off when\Npeople come in.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:18.04,0:13:20.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then he'll switch the\Nhouselights off, and I think
Dialogue: 0,0:13:20.00,0:13:22.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the two side lights onstage\Nwill be on.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:22.00,0:13:24.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Some of those numbers are\Nreferences rather than things
Dialogue: 0,0:13:24.04,0:13:25.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are actually happening\Nin them.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:25.84,0:13:28.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like, from the dive, it runs to the end of the whole tape.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:28.17,0:13:28.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Yes, right.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:30.00,0:13:31.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Okay.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:38.40,0:13:40.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Can I have your autograph\Nfor my program?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:40.88,0:13:41.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Sure.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:41.64,0:13:46.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Sydney piece is a series of\Neight projections in one room at the same time.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:47.08,0:13:50.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I Am Not Me, The Horse is Not Mine,\NWith music by Philip Miller.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:50.68,0:13:53.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you want to understand that\Nthese are simply torn pieces of
Dialogue: 0,0:13:53.36,0:13:56.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,black paper arranged in\Na certain way, and is it about
Dialogue: 0,0:13:56.64,0:14:00.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a generosity of viewing to see\Nthese torn pieces of paper
Dialogue: 0,0:14:00.20,0:14:03.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,make a coherent whole,\Nor is it an inability of
Dialogue: 0,0:14:03.56,0:14:07.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ourselves to stop these\Nfragments coming together?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:07.28,0:14:08.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is a section of
Dialogue: 0,0:14:08.52,0:14:10.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I Am Not Me,\NThe Horse is Not Mine.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:11.01,0:14:12.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the title comes from
Dialogue: 0,0:14:12.16,0:14:15.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a Russian peasant saying–\Ndenying guilt.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:15.20,0:14:17.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you were accused of\Nsomething, you'd simply say,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:17.40,0:14:18.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I am not me.\NThe horse was not mine."
Dialogue: 0,0:14:18.92,0:14:20.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or that "I didn't steal\Nthe horse."
Dialogue: 0,0:14:20.48,0:14:21.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Who wrote these notes?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:21.95,0:14:24.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, this is–\Nnone of this makes sense.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:24.36,0:14:25.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What is our page?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:25.44,0:14:28.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're satellite pieces, but\Nthey're not only satellite pieces.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:29.40,0:14:32.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's material that's been\Nexcavated while working on the
Dialogue: 0,0:14:32.24,0:14:34.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,opera that then has its\Nown place.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:34.12,0:14:35.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it's either like a kind of
Dialogue: 0,0:14:35.24,0:14:38.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a footnote to the opera or\Nan essay about the opera.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:38.12,0:14:39.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not meant to be doing\Nthis stuff.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:39.52,0:14:42.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What am I doing on top of this\Nladder the whole time?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:42.40,0:14:43.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,None of these is any good.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:43.56,0:14:44.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Here.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:44.08,0:14:44.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Brackets.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:44.92,0:14:46.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Prolonged laughter.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:46.00,0:14:46.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Uproar in the room.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:46.99,0:14:50.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[chaotic instrumental music]
Dialogue: 0,0:14:50.93,0:14:52.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But in some ways, you can turn\Nit on its head and say the whole
Dialogue: 0,0:14:52.92,0:14:56.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,opera production is simply\Na provocation to arrive at this
Dialogue: 0,0:14:56.08,0:14:58.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,piece because in fact the opera\Nhad seven performances.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:58.96,0:15:00.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After that, that's it.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:00.60,0:15:01.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whereas this already has had
Dialogue: 0,0:15:01.76,0:15:04.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a much longer life than the\Nopera will ever have.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:18.48,0:15:19.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let's try it.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:19.36,0:15:20.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Compilations.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:20.40,0:15:21.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-No. That's all right.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:21.88,0:15:23.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just wanted to use this for the\Nsoundtrack.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:27.28,0:15:59.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[faint chaotic music playing]
Dialogue: 0,0:16:00.36,0:16:02.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first passage is just the\Nhorse by itself.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:02.72,0:16:07.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then the horse is going to\Ncome in and stand like a circus horse.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:07.64,0:16:10.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then he's going to rear up,\Nat which point I disappear,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:10.60,0:16:12.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the front stepladder\Ndisappears, and it's just my
Dialogue: 0,0:16:12.52,0:16:14.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,legs with an animated horse\Non top.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:14.96,0:16:17.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The back horse rears,\Nand then I leap up.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:17.32,0:16:18.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-This is coming on now.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:18.32,0:16:18.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Yeah, but they're on
Dialogue: 0,0:16:18.96,0:16:20.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,together, obviously,\Nat the same time.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:20.20,0:16:22.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-They come– they follow\Neach other on?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:22.08,0:16:25.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-See, that's what I forgot about:\Nthat damn ladder.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:25.28,0:16:27.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Oh, no, it's actually possible\Nto make that right.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:27.68,0:16:32.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When that guy at the back does\Nhis lean up, then the front guy
Dialogue: 0,0:16:32.49,0:16:35.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,disappears, and we just have the\Nladder by itself.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:35.11,0:16:59.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[chaotic circus music]
Dialogue: 0,0:17:10.84,0:17:17.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So here, I advance the image\None, two frames and then shift
Dialogue: 0,0:17:17.72,0:17:19.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the horse– the paper horse– along.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:46.92,0:17:47.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And when I shoot it with
Dialogue: 0,0:17:47.88,0:17:51.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a camera to reshoot what's\Nbeing projected with the
Dialogue: 0,0:17:51.16,0:17:55.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,addition of the extra elements,\NI'm also shooting two frames.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:25.52,0:18:30.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're allowing a similarity of\Nshape and tone to make the
Dialogue: 0,0:18:30.56,0:18:34.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,viewer not understand that\Nwe suddenly changed medium.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:40.29,0:18:42.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hi. Hi, boy.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:42.34,0:18:43.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-It's lunchtime.\N-Okay. Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:44.40,0:18:46.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We will just get this guy up,\Nand then we'll stop.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:56.16,0:18:58.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think one does think with\None's hands, and I think that's
Dialogue: 0,0:18:58.88,0:19:02.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,why a keyboard is not a good\Nplace for me to think.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:02.08,0:19:03.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So people think very well on\Na keyboard.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:04.96,0:19:08.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I need kind of the fidgeting of\Ncharcoal, scissors, or tearing
Dialogue: 0,0:19:08.80,0:19:13.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of something in my hands,\Nas if there's a different brain
Dialogue: 0,0:19:13.48,0:19:15.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is controlling how that\Nworks.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:15.92,0:19:18.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's an uncertainty of what\Nyou're doing, an imprecision,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:19.14,0:19:22.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that what you do when you\Nlook at it is not to know
Dialogue: 0,0:19:22.40,0:19:24.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something in advance which\Nyou're carrying out
Dialogue: 0,0:19:25.82,0:19:28.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but rather rely on recognizing something as it appears.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:38.48,0:19:41.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What I can do, but only as well\Nas anybody else in the world
Dialogue: 0,0:19:41.80,0:19:44.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can do, is recognize things as\Nthey appear.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:45.24,0:19:48.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it's not that I'm better at\Nrecognizing eight pieces of
Dialogue: 0,0:19:48.20,0:19:50.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,paper as a horse than anyone else.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:51.08,0:19:52.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What I do do is allow myself the
Dialogue: 0,0:19:52.48,0:19:54.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,luxury of saying, "This is going\Nto be the way I'm going to spend
Dialogue: 0,0:19:54.68,0:19:57.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,months and years of my life\Nis arranging stupid pieces of
Dialogue: 0,0:19:57.76,0:20:00.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,paper and then saying,\N'Ah! A horse,' every day,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:00.04,0:20:01.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as if it's something fresh."
Dialogue: 0,0:20:04.00,0:20:06.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay, here we take a pause\Nfor lunch.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:06.84,0:20:07.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Come on, Tamino.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:07.54,0:20:08.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[whistles]
Dialogue: 0,0:20:08.30,0:20:09.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Here, come on.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:09.12,0:20:11.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The seriousness of play is\Nimportant in the work I do,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:12.00,0:20:18.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's important as a strategy\Nfor allowing images and ideas to emerge.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:19.52,0:20:22.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's about saying in the\Nlooseness of trying different things.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:23.68,0:20:24.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it is– you know, it's
Dialogue: 0,0:20:24.56,0:20:27.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,terrible that one associates\Nthat looseness or open-endedness
Dialogue: 0,0:20:27.28,0:20:31.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with childhood, that after that,\Nthat possibility of exploring
Dialogue: 0,0:20:31.00,0:20:33.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something not knowing quite\Nwhere it will lead to,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:33.32,0:20:36.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understanding one can do things\Nlightly and quickly,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:36.20,0:20:38.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,isn't exactly frowned upon,\Nbut it's not the norm.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:43.32,0:20:46.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All the interesting ideas I've\Never had, or interesting work
Dialogue: 0,0:20:46.28,0:20:50.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've done, has always been\Nagainst ideas I've had.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:51.04,0:20:52.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's kind of been in between the
Dialogue: 0,0:20:52.52,0:20:55.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,things I thought I was doing\Nthat the real work has happened.