1 00:00:09,180 --> 00:00:11,060 [DAVID GOLDBLATT] We're headed west-- 2 00:00:11,060 --> 00:00:13,440 at the moment we're heading south-- 3 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:19,080 but we're going to the west of the city to a suburb called Fietas. 4 00:00:26,620 --> 00:00:29,920 [Fietas was a diverse community with a large Indian population.] 5 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,320 [During apartheid its residents were forcibly relocated.] 6 00:00:33,940 --> 00:00:36,040 It's official name is Pageview, 7 00:00:36,700 --> 00:00:40,840 but it came to be known by its residents as Fietas. 8 00:00:42,100 --> 00:00:44,850 No one knows now for sure where the name came from 9 00:00:44,850 --> 00:00:47,200 and if it has any meaning-- what it means-- 10 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,500 but that was the fond name for the area. 11 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,760 When I started photographing here in '76, 12 00:00:57,420 --> 00:00:59,860 the community was still largely intact. 13 00:01:03,860 --> 00:01:06,100 That's the Twenty-Third Street mosque. 14 00:01:07,940 --> 00:01:14,680 The houses here consist of some of the original Indian houses 15 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:19,579 and then those that were built by the Department of Community Development. 16 00:01:20,220 --> 00:01:25,140 We were wonderful in our ability to invent the meaning of words. 17 00:01:25,149 --> 00:01:31,259 The Department of Community Development came here and destroyed their community. 18 00:01:31,260 --> 00:01:38,960 For example, these here were built by the Department of Community Development. 19 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,380 And as you see, they are now little fortresses, 20 00:01:44,380 --> 00:01:48,100 as are so many of our houses in Johannesburg. 21 00:01:50,140 --> 00:01:54,659 A working class White community, next door to this, 22 00:01:54,660 --> 00:01:56,560 agitated for their removal. 23 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,980 Whites didn't want people of color living next door to them. 24 00:02:00,980 --> 00:02:02,760 It was as crude as that. 25 00:02:04,340 --> 00:02:11,600 What happened here is typical of what happened in almost every town in South Africa. 26 00:02:17,980 --> 00:02:20,520 --[SALMA PATEL] You went from behind, and you could buy meat. 27 00:02:20,860 --> 00:02:21,660 [LAUGHS] 28 00:02:22,020 --> 00:02:24,000 --I had an amazing childhood, you know that! 29 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:26,660 I remember David coming on a bicycle-- 30 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:29,880 coming and cycling. 31 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,320 And I used to wonder, "Why does he do this?" 32 00:02:34,740 --> 00:02:36,760 I was going to school then. 33 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,940 I saw this man photographing all these ruins. 34 00:02:41,980 --> 00:02:45,020 In my little world in those days, this was home, 35 00:02:45,020 --> 00:02:52,740 and I didn't really understand the full implications of forced removals. 36 00:02:55,740 --> 00:03:00,640 Because of the apartheid regime's racist ideologies, 37 00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:02,500 this area was destroyed. 38 00:03:05,110 --> 00:03:11,740 Fietas Museum is a very good way to understand land dispossession, 39 00:03:11,740 --> 00:03:15,700 destruction of family units, and a community. 40 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,180 These are Paul Weinberg's photographs. 41 00:03:20,180 --> 00:03:23,780 Paul and I have a long history. 42 00:03:23,790 --> 00:03:26,530 He's walked this whole journey with me, like with David. 43 00:03:26,530 --> 00:03:29,160 I've known them for so many years. 44 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:30,910 These two photographers were very generous 45 00:03:30,910 --> 00:03:33,620 in just donating the pictures to the Fietas Museum. 46 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,060 Had it not been their photographs, 47 00:03:37,060 --> 00:03:41,040 we wouldn't have a pictorial record of my forebearers 48 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,060 and my community. 49 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,600 This shows Fourteenth Street in its heyday. 50 00:03:55,600 --> 00:04:02,060 As you can see, it had the elements that are essential for good cities. 51 00:04:02,060 --> 00:04:07,500 And that is: density, diversity, and complexity. 52 00:04:07,500 --> 00:04:10,900 It was a community of blended cultures. 53 00:04:12,020 --> 00:04:17,260 There's an Indian concept called, "upar makaan neeche dukaan," 54 00:04:17,260 --> 00:04:21,740 meaning living quarters upstairs and trading premises downstairs. 55 00:04:21,740 --> 00:04:24,860 It's a very smart way of using space. 56 00:04:24,860 --> 00:04:27,300 The people that were forcibly removed from this area-- 57 00:04:27,300 --> 00:04:30,660 especially in this particular street-- were traders. 58 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:34,560 [GOLDBLATT] White people, Black people-- 59 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,240 all kinds of people-- would come from all over the area 60 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,760 to shop here, on Fourteenth Street. 61 00:04:42,980 --> 00:04:45,350 The streets were very narrow. 62 00:04:45,350 --> 00:04:50,680 I found that the best way of coming here to photograph was to ride a bicycle. 63 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,910 I came in on a bicycle with a couple of panniers on it 64 00:04:53,910 --> 00:04:57,190 so that I could carry a four-by-five view camera, 65 00:04:57,190 --> 00:04:58,640 or a Hasselblad, 66 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,720 some film, and a lightweight tripod. 67 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:06,660 I would come in here and photograph people, shops-- 68 00:05:06,660 --> 00:05:07,780 whatever I wanted. 69 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,020 I got to know Ozzie Docrat, 70 00:05:13,020 --> 00:05:16,200 one of the Indian men who had a shop here. 71 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,920 He had a shop just down the road here which was called the "Subway Grocers." 72 00:05:21,100 --> 00:05:24,420 If there was a big cricket match-- internationally-- 73 00:05:24,420 --> 00:05:28,180 he would put the score outside on the sidewalk, 74 00:05:28,180 --> 00:05:32,920 so that people coming by could see what the score was. 75 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,720 He knew the tram drivers who came past. 76 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:41,380 It was not impossible for a tram driver to stop his tram 77 00:05:41,380 --> 00:05:45,220 and go in there and say, "Ozzie, you got the score wrong, man!" 78 00:05:45,220 --> 00:05:47,160 "So-and-so is out now." 79 00:05:47,660 --> 00:05:50,580 It was a very popular place and he was a very popular man. 80 00:05:52,180 --> 00:05:53,730 His home was here. 81 00:05:53,730 --> 00:05:54,980 Right here. 82 00:05:54,980 --> 00:05:57,960 This was the core of the house. 83 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,460 It was reinforced concrete, because it needed to support the water tank. 84 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:11,440 When the front-end loaders came in here to destroy everything in 1977, 85 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,340 they couldn't push this over. 86 00:06:13,340 --> 00:06:14,900 It's reinforced concrete. 87 00:06:14,900 --> 00:06:20,620 So it remains here now as a crazy monument to apartheid. 88 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,300 He had to move to Lenasia, 89 00:06:24,310 --> 00:06:29,200 which is the Indian suburb that was set up outside the city 90 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,880 to absorb these people who were displaced. 91 00:06:32,840 --> 00:06:36,480 The government built the so-called "Oriental Plaza"-- 92 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,460 a shopping mall which they said would then 93 00:06:39,460 --> 00:06:42,500 substitute for the shops that they were destroying here. 94 00:06:44,180 --> 00:06:45,780 One day, it is was a Sunday Morning, 95 00:06:45,780 --> 00:06:48,840 I came riding here on my bicycle, 96 00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:50,120 and there was Ozzie Docrat. 97 00:06:50,940 --> 00:06:52,720 We greeted each other, and I said to him, 98 00:06:52,721 --> 00:06:54,220 "You know Mr. Docrat," 99 00:06:54,220 --> 00:06:57,900 "I cannot tell you how ashamed I am of what is being done here," 100 00:06:57,900 --> 00:07:00,860 "to you in my name, as a White voter." 101 00:07:05,740 --> 00:07:08,880 Then I said to him, "You know, I've got a problem," 102 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,480 "because they're knocking down the buildings and I can't remember what was there." 103 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:14,740 And he said, "Mr. Goldblatt," 104 00:07:15,340 --> 00:07:19,240 "I feel as though I've been to the dentist," 105 00:07:19,250 --> 00:07:22,040 "and I've had teeth extracted." 106 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:23,890 "And I run my tongue over the spaces," 107 00:07:23,890 --> 00:07:27,280 "and I try to remember the shape of what was there." 108 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:30,600 It was an extraordinary statement.