WEBVTT 00:00:00.130 --> 00:00:02.200 00:00:03.645 --> 00:00:05.600 欢迎观看诺贝尔对谈 00:00:07.250 --> 00:00:10.240 在本集中,Josh Angrist 和 Guido Imbens 00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:11.920 与 Isaiah Andrews 坐下来 00:00:11.920 --> 00:00:14.303 讨论他们的研究最初是如何被接受的 00:00:14.999 --> 00:00:17.090 以及他们如何回应批评 00:00:18.700 --> 00:00:20.380 当时,你有没有觉得 00:00:20.380 --> 00:00:21.627 自己在做一件大事 00:00:21.627 --> 00:00:25.152 认为这会是一整套工程的开端 00:00:25.152 --> 00:00:27.202 而这个工程将会非常重要,还是...? 00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:30.000 说这是一套大工程 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:31.894 确实,我觉得,“哇,这--” 00:00:32.277 --> 00:00:35.045 我们已经证明了一些 我们从前所不知道的事 00:00:35.045 --> 00:00:36.114 而这是值得知道的 00:00:36.114 --> 00:00:38.033 是,回到... 00:00:38.741 --> 00:00:41.080 与我的就业市场报告或其他东西相比-- 00:00:41.080 --> 00:00:45.560 不,我觉得这实际上 是一个非常清晰的结果 00:00:46.400 --> 00:00:49.657 但肯定会有不同的解释 00:00:49.657 --> 00:00:52.420 我想没有人会说 00:00:52.420 --> 00:00:55.487 “好吧,这是研究人员的噩梦 00:00:56.043 --> 00:00:59.386 00:01:00.230 --> 00:01:02.003 你认为你发现了一些东西, 00:01:02.003 --> 00:01:04.461 然后其他人说,‘哦,我知道。’” 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:07.220 但绝对有必要让大家相信 00:01:07.220 --> 00:01:10.370 这是值得了解的,工具变量 00:01:10.370 --> 00:01:12.687 估计了依从者的因果效应 00:01:13.200 --> 00:01:16.178 是,即使需要很长时间 00:01:16.178 --> 00:01:19.348 才能说服更多观众 00:01:19.820 --> 00:01:24.346 有时也很快,但在一小群人中的 00:01:24.800 --> 00:01:26.645 接受度还是不错的 00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:31.297 Gary 显然从一开始就非常喜欢这个想法 00:01:31.800 --> 00:01:33.289 我记得… 00:01:33.289 --> 00:01:35.645 因为那时 Josh 已经去了以色列 00:01:35.645 --> 00:01:38.886 但我记得向 Don Rubin 解释过 00:01:39.696 --> 00:01:43.700 他说,“你可知,这不得了啊。" 00:01:43.700 --> 00:01:45.197 虽然不是马上 00:01:45.932 --> 00:01:47.173 Don 经过深思熟虑 00:01:47.500 --> 00:01:49.150 当你和 Don 联系上的时候 00:01:49.150 --> 00:01:51.226 我实际上已经和他 00:01:51.226 --> 00:01:53.304 来回通信过几次 00:01:53.700 --> 00:01:57.103 我记得某天我接到他的电话或电邮 00:01:57.103 --> 00:02:00.020 他说他坐在罗马机场 00:02:00.020 --> 00:02:03.700 看着报纸心想 00:02:03.700 --> 00:02:07.000 “喔,不,你们实际上有了重大的发现。” 00:02:07.490 --> 00:02:08.594 我们对此感到高兴 00:02:08.594 --> 00:02:10.550 但这比我想的还要久才发生 00:02:11.030 --> 00:02:12.500 那不是马上发生的 00:02:12.500 --> 00:02:13.700 00:02:13.700 --> 00:02:15.325 因为我知道那件事发生时 00:02:15.325 --> 00:02:16.627 我已经回到了以色列 00:02:16.627 --> 00:02:18.750 我在那个夏天去了以色列-- 00:02:19.390 --> 00:02:21.190 我在哈佛只呆了两年 00:02:21.190 --> 00:02:22.540 我们一起度过了一年 00:02:22.540 --> 00:02:25.700 不简单啊,我的意思是 这一年对我们来说非常重要 00:02:25.900 --> 00:02:27.200 是的 00:02:27.690 --> 00:02:30.200 我们知道有好事发生了 00:02:30.200 --> 00:02:33.700 但我们不认为那足以改变生活 回想起来才发现 00:02:33.700 --> 00:02:35.620 00:02:35.620 --> 00:02:37.495 如您所说的听起来,最初一小群人 00:02:37.495 --> 00:02:39.190 是很容易接受的 00:02:39.190 --> 00:02:43.090 而对更广大的人群而言 他们可能需要一些时间 00:02:43.090 --> 00:02:45.912 才能将 LATE 框架视为看待世界的 00:02:45.912 --> 00:02:47.620 一种有价值的方式 00:02:47.620 --> 00:02:50.100 在那段时间里 00:02:50.100 --> 00:02:52.128 人们说这不是看待世界的 00:02:52.128 --> 00:02:54.450 有用方式,你是否认为 00:02:54.450 --> 00:02:55.751 他们可能是对的? 00:02:55.751 --> 00:02:58.360 你有没有感到气馁? 你是怎么想的呢? 00:02:58.360 --> 00:02:59.721 我沒有感到气馁 00:02:59.721 --> 00:03:01.119 说这些都是聪明人 00:03:01.119 --> 00:03:06.117 见多识广的计量经济学家、 00:03:06.117 --> 00:03:07.800 老练的读者 00:03:08.900 --> 00:03:11.324 我认为评论的实质是 00:03:11.324 --> 00:03:14.297 这不是计量经济学的内容 00:03:14.297 --> 00:03:20.572 当时传播的计量经济学是关于结构的 00:03:21.300 --> 00:03:24.490 有一种观点认为经济中存在结构 00:03:25.100 --> 00:03:27.200 我们的工作是发现它 00:03:27.200 --> 00:03:30.952 它的结构之所以如此 是因为它本质上是不变的 00:03:32.570 --> 00:03:34.900 所以我们说,在 LATE 定理中 00:03:34.900 --> 00:03:37.699 每个工具都会产生自己的因果效应 00:03:37.699 --> 00:03:41.386 这在某种程度上与此相矛盾 00:03:41.386 --> 00:03:43.640 这就是紧张的所在 00:03:43.640 --> 00:03:45.551 人们不想放弃这个想法 00:03:46.300 --> 00:03:50.369 是的,我记得有一次人们开始 00:03:51.200 --> 00:03:55.664 大声反对这一点-- 00:03:56.900 --> 00:03:59.483 那从没有让我如此困扰 00:03:59.483 --> 00:04:03.051 明显地,我们在那里取得了结果 00:04:03.051 --> 00:04:05.878 它变得有些争议 00:04:05.878 --> 00:04:08.395 但是以一种好的方式引起争议 00:04:08.620 --> 00:04:10.190 人们很明显地觉得 00:04:10.820 --> 00:04:13.835 他们必须站出来以示反对,因为-- 00:04:13.970 --> 00:04:15.649 嗯,我们现在认为那很好 00:04:17.426 --> 00:04:19.238 我们当时可能并不喜欢 00:04:20.168 --> 00:04:23.080 我记得我有点不高兴 00:04:23.080 --> 00:04:24.780 有一次晚餐有人说 00:04:24.780 --> 00:04:27.455 “不,不,不,Josh 的那篇论文-- 00:04:28.855 --> 00:04:30.749 对这个行业造成了伤害。” 00:04:32.050 --> 00:04:33.850 我们确实得到了这样的反应 00:04:35.410 --> 00:04:38.200 在某种程度上 这可能是当时在经济学中 00:04:38.400 --> 00:04:40.000 普遍存在的文化 00:04:41.400 --> 00:04:44.097 我后来想了想 万一发生在现在呢? 00:04:44.600 --> 00:04:47.682 如果我是坐在那次谈话中的资深人士 00:04:48.200 --> 00:04:51.952 我会说出来,因为那确实不对 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:54.200 没那么糟吧 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:56.262 00:04:57.700 --> 00:04:59.298 00:05:00.070 --> 00:05:01.351 00:05:01.800 --> 00:05:04.485 00:05:05.280 --> 00:05:06.440 00:05:06.440 --> 00:05:08.128 00:05:08.128 --> 00:05:10.300 00:05:10.300 --> 00:05:12.646 00:05:12.646 --> 00:05:14.442 00:05:15.191 --> 00:05:17.369 00:05:17.369 --> 00:05:18.700 00:05:18.700 --> 00:05:21.579 00:05:21.579 --> 00:05:23.059 00:05:23.059 --> 00:05:25.861 00:05:26.500 --> 00:05:30.361 00:05:31.967 --> 00:05:33.891 00:05:33.891 --> 00:05:35.678 00:05:35.678 --> 00:05:36.840 00:05:36.840 --> 00:05:38.400 00:05:38.837 --> 00:05:42.289 00:05:42.929 --> 00:05:44.679 00:05:44.679 --> 00:05:47.800 00:05:49.880 --> 00:05:53.502 00:05:54.300 --> 00:05:56.400 00:05:56.900 --> 00:06:00.244 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:03.775 00:06:04.630 --> 00:06:08.831 00:06:09.238 --> 00:06:13.113 00:06:14.221 --> 00:06:16.978 00:06:17.500 --> 00:06:19.250 00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:21.261 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:24.892 00:06:25.500 --> 00:06:28.761 00:06:28.761 --> 00:06:29.871 00:06:30.170 --> 00:06:34.600 00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:36.440 00:06:36.440 --> 00:06:40.041 00:06:40.700 --> 00:06:42.600 00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:43.730 00:06:43.730 --> 00:06:46.243 00:06:46.859 --> 00:06:48.829 00:06:49.770 --> 00:06:51.560 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:54.186 00:06:54.186 --> 00:06:56.600 00:06:56.600 --> 00:06:57.830 00:06:57.830 --> 00:06:59.478 00:06:59.478 --> 00:07:01.247 00:07:01.900 --> 00:07:04.176 00:07:04.894 --> 00:07:06.761 00:07:06.761 --> 00:07:07.910 00:07:07.910 --> 00:07:11.736 00:07:11.736 --> 00:07:14.052 00:07:14.052 --> 00:07:16.058 00:07:17.430 --> 00:07:18.993 00:07:19.804 --> 00:07:21.948 00:07:21.948 --> 00:07:24.420 00:07:25.400 --> 00:07:27.450 00:07:27.450 --> 00:07:29.316 00:07:29.316 --> 00:07:32.218 00:07:32.218 --> 00:07:33.419 00:07:33.419 --> 00:07:35.454 00:07:35.454 --> 00:07:37.639 00:07:37.639 --> 00:07:40.860 00:07:40.860 --> 00:07:43.894 00:07:43.894 --> 00:07:45.900 00:07:45.900 --> 00:07:48.188 00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:51.028 00:07:51.028 --> 00:07:53.140 00:07:53.140 --> 00:07:56.880 00:07:56.880 --> 00:07:59.098 00:07:59.098 --> 00:08:02.405 00:08:02.405 --> 00:08:04.366 00:08:04.596 --> 00:08:06.516 00:08:07.500 --> 00:08:09.782 00:08:10.420 --> 00:08:11.868 00:08:11.868 --> 00:08:13.805 00:08:14.600 --> 00:08:16.006 00:08:16.780 --> 00:08:19.444 00:08:20.300 --> 00:08:22.522 00:08:22.522 --> 00:08:25.000 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:26.438 00:08:26.438 --> 00:08:28.320 00:08:28.320 --> 00:08:29.500 00:08:29.800 --> 00:08:30.800 00:08:32.760 --> 00:08:34.125 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:37.492 00:08:37.935 --> 00:08:39.606 00:08:40.600 --> 00:08:44.077 00:08:44.930 --> 00:08:47.430 00:08:47.430 --> 00:08:49.761 00:08:49.761 --> 00:08:53.500 00:08:54.500 --> 00:08:56.936 00:08:56.936 --> 00:08:58.800 00:08:58.800 --> 00:08:59.800 00:08:59.800 --> 00:09:01.530 00:09:01.530 --> 00:09:03.230 00:09:03.230 --> 00:09:05.743 00:09:06.300 --> 00:09:08.520 00:09:08.520 --> 00:09:09.791 00:09:09.791 --> 00:09:12.008 00:09:12.008 --> 00:09:13.225 00:09:13.225 --> 00:09:15.400 00:09:15.400 --> 00:09:17.860 00:09:18.690 --> 00:09:20.096 00:09:20.096 --> 00:09:21.365 00:09:22.030 --> 00:09:23.375 00:09:24.860 --> 00:09:26.595 00:09:26.595 --> 00:09:29.943 00:09:30.190 --> 00:09:33.460 00:09:33.460 --> 00:09:35.230 00:09:35.230 --> 00:09:37.000 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:38.310 00:09:38.310 --> 00:09:39.720 00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:41.958 00:09:42.630 --> 00:09:46.000 00:09:46.400 --> 00:09:47.500 00:09:48.671 --> 00:09:50.245 00:09:50.245 --> 00:09:53.348 00:09:53.348 --> 00:09:56.435 00:09:57.200 --> 00:09:59.736 00:10:00.196 --> 00:10:01.376 00:10:01.376 --> 00:10:03.410 00:10:03.410 --> 00:10:04.583 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:07.000 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:08.460 00:10:08.460 --> 00:10:09.560 00:10:09.560 --> 00:10:11.100 00:10:11.100 --> 00:10:12.498 00:10:12.498 --> 00:10:15.143 若您想观看其他的诺贝尔对谈视频 00:10:15.143 --> 00:10:16.207 请单击此处 00:10:16.207 --> 00:10:18.409 或者,如果您想了解 计量经济学的更多相关信息 00:10:18.640 --> 00:10:21.240 请查看 Josh 的 Mastering Econometrics 系列视频 00:10:21.800 --> 00:10:24.540 如果您想了解更多关于 Guido、Josh 和 Isaiah 的信息 00:10:24.860 --> 00:10:26.502 请查看说明中的链接