[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:08.67,0:00:10.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ birds chirping ]
Dialogue: 0,0:00:15.17,0:00:18.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ ROBERT MANGOLD ] The thing that began \Nto fascinate me about painting was that
Dialogue: 0,0:00:18.48,0:00:23.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it didn’t deal with time in a sense \Nthat almost every other medium does.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:25.60,0:00:29.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You could take out a camera and take \Na picture of the painting and you’d have it all there.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:30.57,0:00:33.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can’t do \Nthat with almost anything else.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:34.58,0:00:41.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you come into a sculpture gallery, you can walk \Naround the sculpture before you have to come to an opinion.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:42.75,0:00:44.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Painting doesn’t give you any of that \Ntime.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:46.42,0:00:50.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It plants itself in front of you and says, here I am, plunk.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:50.99,0:00:53.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know you get in front \Nof it, you look at it, you’ve seen it.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:13.52,0:01:18.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I live here in the country and I \Nsee wonderful sunlight and great
Dialogue: 0,0:01:18.16,0:01:21.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cloud formations and all kinds of stuff \Nall the time.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:21.70,0:01:26.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fields that are covered with a certain yellow flower at one \Nmoment. But I’m never aware of any of
Dialogue: 0,0:01:26.80,0:01:29.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that coming into my art, ever.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:29.57,0:01:33.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It may, but it doesn’t come \Nin any direct way.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:34.28,0:01:39.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Rather than my influence coming \Nfrom nature, it comes from culture:
Dialogue: 0,0:01:39.73,0:01:45.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the culture that comes from the history \Nof art and the culture of our times.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:49.83,0:01:55.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I do a lot of works on paper building up \Nto the idea of work on canvas.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:56.55,0:01:58.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to see how something’s going to look.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:58.44,0:02:05.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if it presents me with a visual structure that’s a little off from what I’ve done in the past,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:05.71,0:02:09.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then that gets my curiosity more interested.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:13.36,0:02:19.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is kind of like juggling an idea and going \Nfrom, do you do one and then you go and you say,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:19.84,0:02:25.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Okay that’s interesting but what if I did it \Nthis way or something?" So they’re really all tryouts.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:25.62,0:02:30.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In some cases, one idea follows \Nanother and in some cases, it doesn’t.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:31.60,0:02:35.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When I get to one that really interests me,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:35.52,0:02:39.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like this one I think really \Ninterested me and so I thought,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:39.16,0:02:45.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Okay, I’m going to do a larger one of that." \NI like the way the lines hung from the diagonal.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:52.83,0:02:58.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So then I do it with colors so that I \Ncan get a sense of you know, what it,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:58.68,0:03:02.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what it looks...what it would look like if \Nit were done that way.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:02.95,0:03:09.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I ended up not being so crazy about it in the end, \Nbecause I didn’t like this big droopy curve.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:56.12,0:04:01.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As a young artist I was very connected \Nto what was going on at the moment in New York.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:02.00,0:04:05.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The latter part \Nof Abstract Expressionism.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:05.23,0:04:08.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Pop art, which \Nhad just arrived.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:09.15,0:04:14.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was a time to start \Nover, go back to the elements of painting.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:17.06,0:04:20.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was all part of what \Nlater became minimalism.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:20.48,0:04:30.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was all a kind of seemingly simple, single idea \Nexposed in a raw way for people to experience.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:30.72,0:04:39.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it was a refreshing and got rid of a lot of stuff that needed \Ngetting rid of so that you could begin, start things over.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:42.50,0:04:47.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Maybe all generations feel like \Nthey’re starting things over for themselves.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.50,0:04:52.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But this was really I think \Na period when it was certainly true.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:06.16,0:05:11.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I got this invitation to the Barnett Newman \Nshow in Philadelphia.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:11.94,0:05:21.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On the invitation card was this vertical piece of his. Almost all of \Nmy work had been horizontally, left to right reading art.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:23.08,0:05:28.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I suddenly thought it would be really \Ninteresting to work on a vertical painting
Dialogue: 0,0:05:28.08,0:05:33.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you can’t read that way. It’s my thwarting \Nthe viewer kind of idea.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:33.26,0:05:37.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Me, the viewer. You can’t read a vertical painting from left to right.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:37.33,0:05:42.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So then how do you read it? Do you go up and down, or, I don’t know. \NIt was just a kind of sense like,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:42.32,0:05:44.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was something I wanted to deal with.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:46.44,0:05:52.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s not so important that I get the color just \Nright here because almost anything would do so
Dialogue: 0,0:05:52.60,0:05:59.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I could see the work. I can decide later \Nto change the color.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.10,0:06:08.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you think of the rings as being two connected columns,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:08.76,0:06:16.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I’m still working off that in a way. Only now I’ve brought them back into a completed form.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:17.30,0:06:23.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Two vertical lines going up. \NYou have them bent into a wheel.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:32.40,0:06:35.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Get a little fresh air.\N[ exhales sharply ]
Dialogue: 0,0:06:40.78,0:06:43.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay, come back \Nand take a look.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:12.36,0:07:16.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was a group of us who had studios near \Nthe Bowery.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:16.76,0:07:27.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sylvia and I were in a building that Bob Ryman was in, \NLucy Lippard. Sol LeWitt was around the corner.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:29.29,0:07:31.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Eva Hesse across the street.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:31.76,0:07:34.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we would all visit \Neach other’s studios.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:35.76,0:07:42.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was a lot of action there. There were people doing videos. There \Nwere people who were performing dance,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:42.01,0:07:48.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,making happenings of one kind or another. \NIt was an incredible time in the visual art scene.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:48.74,0:07:54.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was something exciting going \Non all the time. And it was contagious.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:08.32,0:08:13.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I loved being in New York City. And \NI loved the industrial quality of it,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:13.44,0:08:18.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I loved Lower Manhattan. There was \Njust a quality of being there and the sounds.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:18.76,0:08:22.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was very romantically \Nin love with New York at that point.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:27.67,0:08:31.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yeah, I might have to make \Nthe line a little stronger.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:33.56,0:08:38.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whether you ride a bus or a cab or subway \Nor whatever you see everything in bits and pieces.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:38.83,0:08:40.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You see everything in parts.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:40.84,0:08:45.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You'd see buildings going by and \Nyou’d see gaps between buildings going by.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:45.76,0:08:49.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I became very interested\Nin this idea of
Dialogue: 0,0:08:49.40,0:08:54.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pieces of architecture that were both solid \Nand that were atmospheric.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:54.79,0:09:05.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the idea that a similar form one way could be a gap between a \Nbuilding and in another way, could be a building.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:33.08,0:09:35.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I like setting up problems for the viewer.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:36.01,0:09:41.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that viewer isn’t someone detached from me, I’m the viewer, I’m the first viewer.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:42.87,0:09:49.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I like setting up problems like how do you visually deal with a ring
Dialogue: 0,0:09:49.27,0:09:53.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when what’s usually in the center \Nof a painting is very important?
Dialogue: 0,0:09:55.17,0:09:59.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was the idea of what was missing that’s in a lot of my work.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:00.84,0:10:03.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It keeps coming back in one form or another.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:09.52,0:10:15.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By picking away the center, that forces \Nthat viewing a step further.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:15.92,0:10:23.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s like the main course isn’t there and you’re having to deal with everything around what would normally be the main course.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:28.59,0:10:30.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yeah, that looks pretty good.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:35.00,0:10:39.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, the reflected light is pretty \Ngood here, I think it’s all right.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:39.29,0:10:43.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was approached about doing something for \Nthe Buffalo courthouse.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:43.83,0:10:47.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The only reason I considered it was I come from that area.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:49.64,0:10:54.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Most of my childhood, we lived in relation to Erie Canal.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:54.98,0:11:01.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Instead of having a railroad, the barge canal with the tugboats was a romantic illusion I guess.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:02.40,0:11:07.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I lived so far in the country, my uncles were \Nall farmers and I worked for them.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:09.23,0:11:16.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was pushed into being artist by teachers. I liked \Nto draw, so the idea of art school seemed fine.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:16.20,0:11:23.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At that point, my idea of art school was probably \NNorman Rockwell, Saturday Evening Post covers.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:23.53,0:11:27.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don’t think I knew that \Nthere were contemporary painters.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:30.35,0:11:36.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I went away to art school and I chose Cleveland. \NIt seemed like a little art factory.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:36.10,0:11:41.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There were people making weaving and people making jewelry \Nand doing paintings and illustration.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:42.75,0:11:44.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I thought, "This looks good to me."
Dialogue: 0,0:11:48.02,0:11:50.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- So the entrance is over there, that’s the main entrance.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:50.69,0:11:57.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Right, people, people come in this way and then they turn that way to go into the courthouse. Or they can come.....
Dialogue: 0,0:11:57.70,0:12:02.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ MANGOLD ] The building wasn’t built yes. I \Njust had plans in front of me.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:02.25,0:12:08.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s like working blind. For someone who likes to \Nhave more control over what he’s doing,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:08.26,0:12:12.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it’s like taking a chance on something. It’s tricky.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:15.00,0:12:17.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My idea was that if this
Dialogue: 0,0:12:17.77,0:12:23.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wall became a transition between this \Nentryway and the courthouse itself,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:23.20,0:12:29.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which was very formidable and very big, if in fact \Nthis wall could become a really beautiful thing,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:29.72,0:12:34.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it would be a nice experience going \Nfrom the one building to the other.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:36.08,0:12:39.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I’m not a person who does stained glass \Na lot.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:39.03,0:12:47.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s kind of tricky understanding that you’re dealing with light in a \Nway that is totally dependent on the
Dialogue: 0,0:12:47.64,0:12:53.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,world you’re situated in and the time \Nof year and the time of day and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:56.16,0:13:01.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It seemed like an area that would \Nreally work out for these tall
Dialogue: 0,0:13:01.68,0:13:05.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,column ideas that I was working on \Nat that time.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:05.31,0:13:13.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was a continuation of what I was doing in my paintings and \Ndrawings of 2004 when this all began.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:24.88,0:13:29.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I wanted this to be both inside the \Npavilion and outside the pavilion, a kind
Dialogue: 0,0:13:29.40,0:13:34.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of humanist sense of color and light that would \Nbe...
Dialogue: 0,0:13:37.56,0:13:40.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,beautiful, you know? It would be beautiful.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:06.16,0:14:10.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The show was composed of ring images \Nand split ring images.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:12.100,0:14:18.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My titles are always redirected into the painting, like \N"Square Within A Circle."
Dialogue: 0,0:14:18.49,0:14:26.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The reason I don’t title them something more pointed is \Nthat I would rather leave that book open.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:36.20,0:14:42.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Majority of my paintings have dealt with the \Ncurving line, the elliptical line, the ovoid,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:42.32,0:14:44.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the circle in one way or another.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:46.36,0:14:51.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s the same elements juggled in a more complicated way.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:51.08,0:14:54.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s like the column paintings led to the \Nring paintings.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:54.11,0:14:57.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The ring paintings have kind of led me to this.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:57.35,0:15:04.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s a way of taking the \Nidea another place and seeing what’ll happen.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:10.19,0:15:16.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I’m a romantic artist. And I think \Nromanticism by nature implies something
Dialogue: 0,0:15:16.52,0:15:22.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that takes it beyond a formal idea.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:24.74,0:15:31.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sometimes I think, "Oh Bob, you’re just a damned formalist," but then there are other times when I argue with myself about it.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:52.78,0:15:56.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ ANNOUNCER ] To learn more about \N"Art in the Twenty-First Century"
Dialogue: 0,0:15:56.13,0:15:58.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and its educational resourcs,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:58.22,0:16:03.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,please visit us online at: \NPBS.org/Art21
Dialogue: 0,0:16:06.36,0:16:09.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,“Art in the Twenty-First Century” is available on DVD.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:10.32,0:16:13.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The companion book is also available.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:13.00,0:16:16.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To order, visit us online at: shopPBS.org
Dialogue: 0,0:16:16.77,0:16:21.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or call PBS Home Video at: \N1-800-PLAY-PBS