[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My name's Ed Snowdon, I'm a 29 years old
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I worked for Booz Allen Hamilton as an infrastructure analyst for NSA in Hawaii
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what are some of the [...] that you helped previously within the intelligence community?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've been a system engineer, system engineer administrator,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,senior advisor for the Central Intelligence Agency, solutions consultant, and
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a telecommunications information systems officer.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the things people are going to be most interested in,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in trying to understand who you are and what you're thinking
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is there came some point in time when you crossed this line of thinking about being a whistleblower
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to make the choice to actually become a whistleblower
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Walk people through that decision-making process
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When you're positions of privileged access, like a systems administrator for this sort of intelligence community agencies,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're exposed to a lot more information on a broader scale than the average employee
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and because of that you see things that may be disturbing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but over the course of a normal person's career you'd only see one or two of these instances
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when you see everything, you see them on a more frequent basis
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you recognise that some of these things are actually abuses
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and when you talk to people about them, in a place like this, where this is the normal state of business,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people tend not to take them very seriously and, you know, move on from them
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but over time that awareness of wrongdoing sort of builds up and you feel compelled to talk about it
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the more you talk about it, the more you're ignored, the more you're told it's not a problem
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,until eventually you realise these things need to be determined by the public, not by someone who's simply hired by the government
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Talk a little bit about how the American surveillance state actually functions, does it target the actions of Americans?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,NSA, and the intelligence community in general, is focused on getting intelligence wherever it can, by all means possible
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it believes, on the ground of a sort of self-justification, that they serve the national interest
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Originally, we saw that focus [...] overseas
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, increasingly, we see that it's happening domestically
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And to do that, they, the NSA specifically, targets the communications of everyone, it ingests them by default
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it collects them in its systems and it filters them and it analyses them and it measures them and it stores them for periods of time
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,simply because that's the easiest most efficient and most valuable way to achieve these ends
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so while they may be intending to target someone associated with a foreign government
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or someone that they suspect of terrorism
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're collecting your communication to do so
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Any analyst at any time can target anyone
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,any selector anywhere
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where those communications will be picked up depends on a range of decentered networks
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the authorities that that analyist is empowered with, not all analysts have the ability to target everything
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I sitting at my desk certainly had the authority to wiretap anyone, from you or your accountant to a federal judge,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to even the president, if I had a personal email.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the extraordinary parts about this episode is that usually whistleblowers do what they do anonymously
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and take steps to remain anonymous for as long as they can, which they hope often is forever.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You on the other hand have decided for the opposite, which is to declare yourself openly as the person behind these disclosures.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why did you choose to do that?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that the public is owed an explanation of the motivations behind the people who make these disclosures that are outside of the democratic [?]
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When you are subverting the power of government, that's a fundamentally dangerous thing to democracy
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if you do that in secret, consistenty, as the government does when it wants to benefit from a secret action that it took
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it all kind of gives its officials a mandate to go hey, tell the press about this thing and that thing so the public is on our side
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But they rarely if ever do that when an abuse occurs
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that falls to individual citizens
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but they're typically malign, you know, it becomes a thing of, these people are against the country, or against the government
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I'm not. I'm no different from anybody else. I don't have special skills.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm just another guy who sits there, day-to-day, in the office, and watches what's happening
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and goes, this is something that's not our place to decide
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the public needs to decide whether these programs and policies are right or wrong
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I'm willing to go on the record to defend the authenticity of them
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and say, I didn't change these, I didn't modify the story, this is the truth, this is what's happening
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you should decide whether we need to be doing this
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Have you given thought to what it is that the US government responds to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your conduct [?] in terms of what they might say about you, how they might try to depict you
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what they might try to do to you?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, I could be, you know, rendered by the CIA
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I could have people come after me or
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,any of their third-party partners, you know, they work closely with a number of other nations
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Or, you know, they could pay off the Triads. Any of their agents or assets.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We've got a CIA station just up the road, and the consulate here in Hong Kong, and I am sure they are going to be very busy for the next week.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's a fear I'll live under for the rest of my life, however long that happens to be.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can't come forward against the world's most powerful intelligence agencies
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and be completely free from risk, because they're such powerful adversaries, that no one can meaningfully oppose them
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If they want to get you, they will get you in time.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, at the same time, you have to make a determination about what it is that's important to you.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if living unfreely but comfortably is something you're willing to accept
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think many of us are, it's the human nature
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can get up every day, you can go to work, you can collect your large paycheck
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for relatively little work, against the public interest
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and go to sleep at night after watching your shows.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if you realise that that's the world that you helped create
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's going to get worse, with the next generation, and the next generation,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to extend the capabilities of this sort of architecture of oppression
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you realise that you might be willing to accept any risk
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it doesn't matter what the outcome is
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so long as the public gets to make their own decisions about how that's applied.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why should people care about surveillance?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because, even if you're not doing anything wrong, you're being watched and recorded
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the storage capability of the systems increases every year, consistently, by orders of magnitude
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to where it's getting to the point you don't have to have done anything wrong
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you simply have to eventually fall under suspicion from somebody, even by a wrong call
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then they can use the system to go back in time and scrutinise every decision you've ever made
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,every friend you've ever discussed something with
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and attack you on that basis just to sort of derive suspicion
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from an innocent life and paint anyone in the context of a wrongdoer.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are currently sitting in a room in Hong Kong
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is where we are because you travelled here.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Talk a little bit about why it is that you came here
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and specifically there are going to be people who will speculate
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that what you really intend to do is to defect to the country that many see as the number one rival of the United States
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is China, and that what you're really doing is essentially seeking to aid an enemy of the United States
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with which you intend to seek asylum. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sure. So there's a couple assertions in those arguments
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are sort of invented. The questioning of the choice of Hong Kong.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first is that China is an enemy of the United States. It's not.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are conflicts between the United States government and the Chinese PRC government
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the peoples, inherently, we don't care. We trade with each other freely.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're not at war, we're not in armed conflict and we're not trying to be.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're the largest trading partners out there for each other.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Additionally, Hong Kong has a strong tradition of free speech.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People think, "Oh, China, great firewall". Mainland China does have significant restrictions on free speech
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the Hong Kong—the people of Hong Kong have a long tradition of protesting in the streets, of making their views known.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Internet is not filtered here, no more so than any other Western government.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I believe that the Hong Kong government is actually independent in relation to a lot of other leading Western governments.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If your motive had been to harm the United States and help its enemies,