[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.96,0:00:03.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Joe Rogan experience.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:03.52,0:00:06.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Are you aware at all of the current state
Dialogue: 0,0:00:06.92,0:00:12.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of surveillance and what, if anything,\Nhas changed since your revelations?
Dialogue: 0,0:00:12.76,0:00:16.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, I mean, the big thing that's changed
Dialogue: 0,0:00:16.72,0:00:22.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,since I was in in 2013 is now it's mobile.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:22.24,0:00:24.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,First, everything
Dialogue: 0,0:00:25.40,0:00:28.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mobile was still a big deal, right.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:28.84,0:00:32.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the intelligence community\Nwas very much grappling
Dialogue: 0,0:00:32.64,0:00:35.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to get its hands around\Nit and to deal with it.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:35.80,0:00:41.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But now people are much less likely to use\Nlaptop than use a desktop than than use,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:41.80,0:00:47.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, got any kind of wired phone\Nthan they are to use a smartphone.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:47.32,0:00:52.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And both Apple and Android\Ndevices, unfortunately,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:52.28,0:00:57.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are not especially good in protecting\Nyour privacy, I think, right now.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:59.72,0:01:00.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You got a smartphone,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:00.76,0:01:05.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right? You might be listening to this\Non a train somewhere and in traffic right
Dialogue: 0,0:01:05.60,0:01:10.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,now, or you, Joe, right now you got\Na phone somewhere in the room, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:01:11.36,0:01:15.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The phone is turned off for at least the\Nscreen is turned off, it's sitting there.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:15.68,0:01:17.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's powered on.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:18.08,0:01:22.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if somebody sends you a message,\Nthe screen blinks to life.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:23.56,0:01:28.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How does that happen,\Nbut how is it that if someone from any
Dialogue: 0,0:01:28.80,0:01:32.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,corner of the Earth dials a number of your\Nphone rings and nobody else's rings,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:32.76,0:01:35.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how is that you can dial anybody else's\Nnumber and only their phone rings?
Dialogue: 0,0:01:35.68,0:01:38.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.\NEvery smartphone,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:38.72,0:01:44.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,every phone at all is constantly\Nconnected to the nearest cellular tower.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:44.40,0:01:47.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Every phone, even when the screen is off,\Nyou think it's doing nothing.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:48.08,0:01:51.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can't see it because radio\Nfrequency emissions are invisible.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:52.12,0:01:56.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's screaming in the air\Nsaying, here I am, here I am.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:57.16,0:01:59.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Here is my IMEI.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:59.60,0:02:01.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it's individual manufacturers,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:02.04,0:02:09.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,equipment, identity and IMEI individual\Nmanufacturers, subscriber identity.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:09.88,0:02:13.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I could be wrong on the break out there,\Nbut the acronyms are
Dialogue: 0,0:02:13.44,0:02:17.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Emii and the emcee and you\Ncan search for these things.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:17.24,0:02:19.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are two globally unique identifiers
Dialogue: 0,0:02:19.48,0:02:23.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that only exist anywhere\Nin the world in one place.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:23.88,0:02:24.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:24.72,0:02:27.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it makes your phone different\Nthan all the other phones.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:27.56,0:02:30.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The IMEI is burned\Ninto the handset on your phone.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:30.36,0:02:32.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No matter what SIM card you change to,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:33.08,0:02:35.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's always going to be the same and it's\Nalways going to be telling the phone
Dialogue: 0,0:02:35.72,0:02:42.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,network it's this physical handset,\Nthe Iame essi is in your SIM card.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:42.04,0:02:43.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.\NAnd this is what holds your phone number.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:43.76,0:02:43.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:43.96,0:02:46.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is that basically the key,\Nthe right to use that phone number?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:47.16,0:02:51.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so your phone is sitting there doing\Nnothing you think,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:51.20,0:02:55.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it's constantly shouting and saying,\NI'm here who is closest to me?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:55.64,0:02:59.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's a cell phone tower\Nand every cell phone tower with its big
Dialogue: 0,0:02:59.48,0:03:04.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ears is listening for these little\Ncries for help and going, oh, right.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:04.84,0:03:06.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I see Joe Rogan's phone, right.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:06.68,0:03:08.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I see Jamie's phone.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:08.32,0:03:11.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I see all these phones\Nthat are here right now.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:12.00,0:03:14.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it compares notes
Dialogue: 0,0:03:15.08,0:03:18.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the other\Nnetwork towers and your smartphone
Dialogue: 0,0:03:18.56,0:03:24.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,compares notes with them to go,\Nwho do I hear the loudest and who you hear
Dialogue: 0,0:03:24.44,0:03:29.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the loudest is a proxy for\Nproximity, for closeness, distance.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:29.16,0:03:29.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:30.00,0:03:33.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They go whoever I hear more loudly\Nthan anybody else, that's close to me.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:34.12,0:03:37.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you're going to be bound to this cell\Nphone tower and that cell phone tower is
Dialogue: 0,0:03:37.32,0:03:42.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going to make a note, a permanent record,\Nsaying this phone,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:42.72,0:03:48.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this phone handset with this phone number\Nat this time was connected to me.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:48.84,0:03:51.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.\NAnd based on your phone handset and your
Dialogue: 0,0:03:51.56,0:03:55.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,phone number,\Nthey can get your identity right
Dialogue: 0,0:03:56.12,0:03:59.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because you pay for this stuff with your\Ncredit card and everything like that.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:59.80,0:04:04.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And even if you don't write, it's\Nstill active at your house overnight.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:04.20,0:04:06.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's still active, you know,\Non your nightstand when you're sleeping.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:06.72,0:04:08.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's still whatever
Dialogue: 0,0:04:09.20,0:04:11.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the movements of your phone are,\Nthe movements of you as a person.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:11.96,0:04:15.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And those are often\Nquite uniquely identifying.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:15.20,0:04:16.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It goes to your home.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:16.38,0:04:17.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It goes to your workplace.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:17.88,0:04:20.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Other people don't have it sorry
Dialogue: 0,0:04:22.12,0:04:23.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in any way.\NIt's constantly shutting this out.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:23.88,0:04:26.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then it compares notes\Nwith the other a parts network.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:26.60,0:04:28.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And when somebody is trying to get
Dialogue: 0,0:04:28.40,0:04:32.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to a phone, it compares notes\Nof the network, compares notes to go.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:32.56,0:04:37.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Where is this phone with this phone number\Nin the world right now
Dialogue: 0,0:04:37.76,0:04:41.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to that cell phone tower\Nthat is closest to that phone.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:41.40,0:04:43.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It sends out a signal saying,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:43.36,0:04:47.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have a call for you,\Nmake your phone start ringing so your
Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.00,0:04:49.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,owner can answer it, and then it\Nconnects it across this whole path.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:49.96,0:04:51.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But what this means
Dialogue: 0,0:04:51.44,0:04:54.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that whenever you carry a phone over,\Nthe phone is turned on.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:54.84,0:04:56.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a record of your presence
Dialogue: 0,0:04:57.04,0:05:00.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at that place that is being\Nmade and created by companies.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:00.60,0:05:02.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It does not need to be kept forever.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:02.76,0:05:05.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in fact, there's no good\Nargument for it to be kept forever.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:05.56,0:05:08.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But these companies see that as\Nvaluable information, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:05:08.62,0:05:10.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the whole big data problem
Dialogue: 0,0:05:10.32,0:05:14.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we're running into and all this\Ninformation that used to be ephemeral.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:14.00,0:05:14.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:14.52,0:05:16.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Where were you when you\Nwere eight years old?
Dialogue: 0,0:05:16.80,0:05:20.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, where were where'd you\Ngo after you had a bad breakup?
Dialogue: 0,0:05:20.68,0:05:22.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, who'd you spend the night with?\NWho'd you call?
Dialogue: 0,0:05:22.64,0:05:26.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After all, this information used to be\Nephemeral, meaning it disappeared.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:26.80,0:05:29.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.\NLike like the morning do it would be gone.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:29.84,0:05:32.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No one would remember it.\NBut now these things are stored.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:32.85,0:05:34.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now these things are saved.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:34.24,0:05:36.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It doesn't matter whether\Nyou're doing anything wrong.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:36.48,0:05:40.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Does it matter where you most\Nordinary person on Earth?
Dialogue: 0,0:05:40.20,0:05:42.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because that's how bulk collection,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:42.88,0:05:46.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is the government's euphemism\Nfor mass surveillance, works.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:46.52,0:05:50.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They simply collect it all in advance in\Nhopes that one day it will become useful.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:50.60,0:05:56.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that was just talking about how\Nyou connected the phone network.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:56.40,0:05:58.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's not talking about all those apps
Dialogue: 0,0:05:58.64,0:06:02.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on your phone that are contacting\Nthe network even more frequently.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.00,0:06:04.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:04.64,0:06:06.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How do you get a text\Nmessage notification?
Dialogue: 0,0:06:06.32,0:06:10.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How do you get an email notification? How\Nis it the Facebook knows where you're at?
Dialogue: 0,0:06:10.24,0:06:14.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, all of these things,\Nthese analytics,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:14.60,0:06:16.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they are trying to keep track through
Dialogue: 0,0:06:16.20,0:06:20.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,location services on your phone to GPS,\Nthrough even just wireless access points
Dialogue: 0,0:06:20.88,0:06:23.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're connected to because\Nthere's a global contact.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:23.17,0:06:26.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The updated map, there's actually many\Nof them of wireless access points
Dialogue: 0,0:06:26.72,0:06:29.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the world, because just like we talked\Nabout, every phone has a unique identifier
Dialogue: 0,0:06:30.12,0:06:33.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's globally unique,\Nevery wireless access point in the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:33.72,0:06:33.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:34.12,0:06:37.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You cable modem at home,\Nwhether it's in your laptop,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.28,0:06:43.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,every device that has a radio modem\Nhas a globally unique identifier in it.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:44.20,0:06:45.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is standard term.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:45.88,0:06:46.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can look it up
Dialogue: 0,0:06:47.12,0:06:51.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and these things can be mapped when\Nthey're broadcasting in the air because
Dialogue: 0,0:06:51.48,0:06:55.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,again, like your phone says to the cell\Nphone tower, I have this identifier.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:56.00,0:06:58.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The cell phone tower responds and says,\NI have this identifier.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:59.16,0:07:02.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And anybody who's listening,\Nthey can write these things down.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:02.72,0:07:05.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And all those Google Street View\Ncars that go back and forth.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:05.44,0:07:05.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:06.16,0:07:11.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're keeping notes on whose Wi-Fi\Nis active on this block.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:11.40,0:07:13.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.\NAnd then they build a new GM app.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:13.72,0:07:16.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So even if you have turned off right,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:16.48,0:07:20.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as long as you connect to Wi-Fi,\Nthose apps can go well,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:21.12,0:07:26.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm connected to Joe's Wi-Fi, but I can\Nalso see his neighbor's Wi-Fi here.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:26.28,0:07:27.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the other one in this apartment over
Dialogue: 0,0:07:27.68,0:07:29.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,here and the other one\Nin the apartment here.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:29.68,0:07:32.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you should only be able to hear
Dialogue: 0,0:07:33.16,0:07:36.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those four globally unique Wi-Fi access
Dialogue: 0,0:07:36.36,0:07:39.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,points from these points\Nin physical space.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:39.40,0:07:42.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.\NThe intersection in between the spread's,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:42.52,0:07:45.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the domes of all those\Nwireless access points,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:45.92,0:07:49.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's a proxy for location\Nand it just goes on and on and on.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:49.04,0:07:51.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We can talk about this for more hours.\NWe don't have that kind of time.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:51.64,0:07:55.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Can I ask you this? Is there a way\Nto mitigate any of this personally? I
Dialogue: 0,0:07:55.40,0:07:59.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mean, is shutting your phone\Noff doesn't even work, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:59.88,0:08:02.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, so it does.\NIn a way, it's yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:02.56,0:08:04.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No, I'm the thing with shutting your phone
Dialogue: 0,0:08:04.40,0:08:08.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,off that is a risk is how do you\Nknow if phones actually turned off?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:08.56,0:08:14.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It used to be when I was in Geneva,\Nfor example, working for the CIA,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:15.76,0:08:19.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we would all carry like\Ndrug dealer phones.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:19.24,0:08:22.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, the old smartphones\Nare old dumb phones.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:23.00,0:08:24.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're not smartphones.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:24.40,0:08:26.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the reason why was just because they
Dialogue: 0,0:08:27.08,0:08:30.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had removal that from the banks where\Nyou could take the battery out.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:30.80,0:08:33.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.\NAnd the one beautiful thing about
Dialogue: 0,0:08:33.64,0:08:35.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,technology is if there's\Nno electricity in it.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:35.92,0:08:38.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.\NIf there's there's no go juice
Dialogue: 0,0:08:38.40,0:08:41.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,available to it, if there's no battery\Nconnected to it, it's not sending anything
Dialogue: 0,0:08:41.92,0:08:43.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because you have to get\Npower from somewhere.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:44.08,0:08:48.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have to have power\Nin order to do work.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:48.64,0:08:51.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But now your phones are all sealed\Nand you can't take the batteries out.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:51.84,0:08:55.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there are potential ways that you can
Dialogue: 0,0:08:55.30,0:08:58.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hack a phone where it appears to be off,\Nbut it's not actually off.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:58.60,0:09:00.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's just pretending to be off,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:00.04,0:09:02.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whereas in fact, it's still listening\Nin and doing all this stuff.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:02.72,0:09:06.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But for the average person,\Nthat doesn't apply.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:06.00,0:09:06.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:06.42,0:09:09.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I got to tell you guys, they've\Nbeen chasing me all over the place.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:10.12,0:09:12.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't worry about that stuff.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:12.12,0:09:13.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:13.72,0:09:16.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's because if they're applying\Nthat level of effort to me,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:16.92,0:09:20.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't probably get the same\Ninformation through other routes.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:20.84,0:09:22.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am as careful as I can.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:22.84,0:09:26.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I use things like Faraday cages.\NI turn devices off.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:26.24,0:09:28.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if they're actually
Dialogue: 0,0:09:28.88,0:09:33.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,manipulating the way devices display,\Nit's just too great a level of effort,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:33.32,0:09:36.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even for someone like me to keep\Nthat up on a constant basis.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:36.36,0:09:41.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Also, if they get me,\NI only trust phones so much.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:41.12,0:09:43.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there's only so much they\Ncan derive from the compromise.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:43.72,0:09:47.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is how operational\Nsecurity works.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:47.64,0:09:49.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you think about what are the realistic
Dialogue: 0,0:09:49.48,0:09:52.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,threats that you're facing\Nthat you're trying to mitigate
Dialogue: 0,0:09:52.52,0:09:57.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the mitigation that you're trying\Nto do is what would be the loss? What
Dialogue: 0,0:09:57.72,0:10:02.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would be the damage done to you\Nif this stuff was exploited? Much more
Dialogue: 0,0:10:02.73,0:10:06.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,realistic than worrying about these\Nthings that I call voodoo hacks.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:06.08,0:10:07.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.\NWhich are like next level stuff.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:08.04,0:10:10.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And actually just a shout out for those
Dialogue: 0,0:10:10.32,0:10:13.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of your readers who are\Ninterested in this stuff.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:13.52,0:10:16.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I wrote a paper on this specific problem.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:16.36,0:10:18.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How do you know when\Na phone is actually off?
Dialogue: 0,0:10:18.32,0:10:20.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How do you know when it's\Nactually not spying on you?
Dialogue: 0,0:10:20.76,0:10:24.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,With a brilliant, brilliant\Nguy named Andrew Bunnie Huang.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:25.00,0:10:30.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He's an MIT Ph.D. and I\Nthink electrical engineering
Dialogue: 0,0:10:30.28,0:10:32.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,called the Introspection Engine
Dialogue: 0,0:10:33.00,0:10:35.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was published in the Journal\Nof Hope Engineering.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:35.48,0:10:37.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can find it online
Dialogue: 0,0:10:37.92,0:10:40.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it'll go as deep down in the weeds,\NI promise you, as you.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:40.76,0:10:42.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, we take an iPhone six.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:43.00,0:10:44.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This was back when it was fairly new
Dialogue: 0,0:10:45.16,0:10:50.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we modified it so we could actually\Nnot trust the device to report its own
Dialogue: 0,0:10:50.48,0:10:53.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,state, but physically monitor it\Nstate to see if it was spying on you.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:53.36,0:10:55.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But for average people, right
Dialogue: 0,0:10:55.60,0:10:59.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this academic night,\Nthat's not your primary threat.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:00.16,0:11:03.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Your primary threats are these\Nbulk collection programs.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:03.67,0:11:05.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Your primary threat is the fact that your
Dialogue: 0,0:11:05.92,0:11:08.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,phone is constantly squawking\Nto these cell phone towers.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:08.92,0:11:10.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's doing all of these things
Dialogue: 0,0:11:10.48,0:11:13.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because we leave our phones\Nin a state that is constantly on.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:13.92,0:11:16.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You're constantly connected right now.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:16.32,0:11:19.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Airplane mode doesn't even\Nturn off Wi-Fi really anymore.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:19.92,0:11:22.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just turns off the cellular modem.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:23.08,0:11:25.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The whole idea is
Dialogue: 0,0:11:25.56,0:11:29.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we need to identify the problem\Nand the central problem with smartphone
Dialogue: 0,0:11:29.52,0:11:33.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,use today is you have no idea what\Nthe hell it's doing at any given time.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:33.60,0:11:35.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like the phone has the screen off.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:35.56,0:11:36.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You don't know what it's connected to.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:36.84,0:11:38.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You don't know how\Nfrequently it's doing it.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:38.76,0:11:43.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Apple and iOS, unfortunately,\Nmakes it impossible to see what kind
Dialogue: 0,0:11:43.08,0:11:46.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of network connections are constantly made\Non the device and to intermediate them
Dialogue: 0,0:11:47.16,0:11:49.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going, I don't want Facebook\Nto be able to talk right now.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:49.92,0:11:52.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, I don't want Google\Nto be able to talk right now.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:52.28,0:11:56.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I just want my secure messenger\Napp to be able to talk.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:56.32,0:11:58.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I just want my weather app to be able
Dialogue: 0,0:11:58.28,0:12:01.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to talk, but I just check my weather\Nand now I'm done with it.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:01.48,0:12:03.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I don't want that to be\Nable to talk anymore.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:03.44,0:12:06.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we need to be able to make\Nthese intelligent decisions.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:07.08,0:12:11.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Are not just an app by app basis, but a\Nconnection by connection basis, right.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:11.36,0:12:16.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You want let's say you use\NFacebook because, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:16.80,0:12:19.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for whatever judgment we have,\Na lot of people might do it.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:20.16,0:12:24.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You want to be able to connect\Nto Facebook's content servers.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:24.24,0:12:26.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You want to be able to message a friend.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:26.00,0:12:28.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You want to be able to download\Na photograph or whatever,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:28.64,0:12:30.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but you don't want it to be\Nable to talk to an ad server.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:31.04,0:12:32.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You don't want to talk to an analytics
Dialogue: 0,0:12:32.64,0:12:34.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,server that that's\Nmonitoring your behavior.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:34.52,0:12:36.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.\NYou don't want to talk to all these third
Dialogue: 0,0:12:36.20,0:12:40.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,party things because Facebook crams their\Ngarbage and almost every app that you
Dialogue: 0,0:12:40.46,0:12:44.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,download and you don't even know what's\Nhappening because you can't see it.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:44.16,0:12:44.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:44.60,0:12:47.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is the problem\Nwith the data collection used today
Dialogue: 0,0:12:47.96,0:12:52.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is there is an industry that is\Nbuilt on keeping this invisible.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:52.48,0:12:54.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what we need to do is we need to make
Dialogue: 0,0:12:54.88,0:12:58.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the activities of our devices,\Nwhether it's a phone,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:58.92,0:13:03.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether it's computer or whatever,\Nare more visible and understandable
Dialogue: 0,0:13:03.48,0:13:05.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the average person and then\Ngive them control over it.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:05.92,0:13:08.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if you could see your phone right now
Dialogue: 0,0:13:08.68,0:13:10.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and at the very center of it\Nis a little green icon.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:10.88,0:13:14.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's your, you know, handset or\Nit's a picture, your face, whatever.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:14.88,0:13:18.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you see all these little\Nspokes coming off of it.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:18.24,0:13:20.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's every app that your phone is
Dialogue: 0,0:13:20.36,0:13:24.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking to right now\Nor every app that is active on your phone
Dialogue: 0,0:13:24.05,0:13:26.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right now and all the hosts\Nthat it's connecting to.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:26.80,0:13:30.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you can see right now,\Nonce every three seconds,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:30.40,0:13:34.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your phone is checking into Facebook\Nand you could just poke that app and then,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:34.76,0:13:36.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,boom, it's not talking\Nto Facebook anymore.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:36.36,0:13:39.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Facebook's not allowed Facebook\Nspeaking privileges have been revoked.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:39.60,0:13:41.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.\NYou would do that.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:41.88,0:13:45.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We would all do that if there was a button\Non your phone that said,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:45.72,0:13:50.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do what I want but not spy on me,\Nyou would press that button, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:51.00,0:13:53.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That button is not does\Nnot exist right now.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:54.00,0:13:58.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And both Google and Apple, unfortunately,\NApple's a lot better at this than Google,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:58.40,0:14:03.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but neither of them allow\Nthat button to exist.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:03.28,0:14:07.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, they actively interfere with it\Nbecause they say it's a security risk.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:07.24,0:14:10.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And from a particular perspective,\Nthey they actually aren't wrong there.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:11.16,0:14:13.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it's not enough to go.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:13.68,0:14:15.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, we have to lock that capability
Dialogue: 0,0:14:15.60,0:14:18.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,off from people because we don't trust\Nthey would make the right decisions.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:18.84,0:14:21.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We think it's too complicated\Nfor people to do this.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:21.36,0:14:23.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We think there's too many\Nconnections being made.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:23.72,0:14:28.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, that is actually a confession\Nof the problem right there.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:28.36,0:14:30.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you think people can't understand it,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:30.32,0:14:32.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you think there are too many\Ncommunications happening,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:32.72,0:14:36.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you think there's too much complexity\Nin there, it needs to be simplified,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:36.76,0:14:39.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just like the president can't\Ncontrol everything like that.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:39.28,0:14:42.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you have to be the president\Nof the phone and the phone is as complex
Dialogue: 0,0:14:42.64,0:14:45.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as the United States government,\Nwe have a problem.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:45.32,0:14:47.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Guys, this should be much\Nmore simple process.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:47.88,0:14:48.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It should be obvious.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:49.04,0:14:53.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the fact that it's not and the fact\Nthat we read story after story year after
Dialogue: 0,0:14:53.48,0:14:55.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,year, saying all your date has been\Nbreached here,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:56.12,0:15:00.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this company's spying on you here is\Ncompanies manipulating your purchases or
Dialogue: 0,0:15:00.56,0:15:05.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your search results or they're hiding\Nthese things from your timeline
Dialogue: 0,0:15:05.52,0:15:09.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or they're influencing you or manipulating\Nyou in all of these different ways.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:09.60,0:15:16.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That happens as a result of a single\Nproblem.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:16.28,0:15:20.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that problem is in inequality\Nof available information.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:21.00,0:15:22.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They can see everything about you.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:22.56,0:15:23.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They can see everything about what your
Dialogue: 0,0:15:23.76,0:15:26.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,device is doing, and they can do\Nwhatever they want with your device.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:26.32,0:15:32.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You, on the other hand, owned the device\Nwell, rather, you paid for the device.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:32.96,0:15:35.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But increasingly these\Ncorporations own it.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:35.20,0:15:37.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Increasingly, these governments own it.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:37.24,0:15:41.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And increasingly, we are living in a world\Nwhere we do all the work right.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:41.32,0:15:48.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We pay all the taxes, we pay all\Nthe costs, but we own less and less.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:48.36,0:15:51.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And nobody understands this better\Nthan the youngest generation.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:51.24,0:15:53.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, it seems like our data became
Dialogue: 0,0:15:53.20,0:15:55.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a commodity before we\Nunderstood what it was.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:56.16,0:15:58.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It became this thing that's insanely
Dialogue: 0,0:15:58.64,0:16:02.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,valuable to Google and Facebook\Nand all these social media platforms.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:02.52,0:16:06.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Before we understood what we were giving\Nup, they were making billions of dollars.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:06.80,0:16:10.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then once that money is being earned\Nand once everyone's accustomed
Dialogue: 0,0:16:11.12,0:16:14.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the situation, it's very\Ndifficult to pull the reins back.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:14.40,0:16:17.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's very difficult\Nto turn that horse around
Dialogue: 0,0:16:17.40,0:16:19.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,precisely because the money\Nthen becomes part right.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:20.08,0:16:22.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The information then becomes influence.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:22.20,0:16:23.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That also seems to be the same sort
Dialogue: 0,0:16:23.64,0:16:26.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of situation that would happen\Nwith these mass surveillance states.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:26.56,0:16:28.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Once they have the access,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:28.56,0:16:32.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's going to be incredibly difficult\Nfor them to relinquish that,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:33.12,0:16:35.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right?\NYeah, no, you're exactly correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:35.96,0:16:37.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is the subject of the book.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:37.76,0:16:40.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, this is the permanent record\Nand this is where it came from.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:40.84,0:16:43.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is how it came to exist.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:43.64,0:16:50.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The story of our lifetimes is how\Nintentionally by design,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:51.00,0:16:55.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a number of institutions,\Nboth governmental and corporate,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:55.68,0:17:00.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,realized it was in their mutual interest\Nto conceal their data collection
Dialogue: 0,0:17:00.68,0:17:06.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,activities, to increase the breadth\Nand depth of their sensor network.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:06.84,0:17:10.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That were sort of spread out through\Nsociety, rumor back in the day
Dialogue: 0,0:17:10.52,0:17:13.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,intelligence collection\Nin the United States, even at Segan,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:13.96,0:17:18.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,used to mean sending an FBI agent right\Nto put alligator clips on an embassy
Dialogue: 0,0:17:19.08,0:17:23.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,building or sending in somebody\Ndisguised as a workman.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:23.40,0:17:29.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they put a bug in a building or\Nthey built a satellite listening side.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:29.08,0:17:29.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:29.48,0:17:33.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We called these foreign set were\Nforeign satellite collection.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:33.32,0:17:34.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're out in the desert somewhere.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:34.76,0:17:38.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They built a big parabolic collector.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:38.24,0:17:40.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's just listening\Nto satellite missions.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:40.56,0:17:40.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:41.04,0:17:46.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But these satellite emmissions, these\Nsatellite links were owned by militaries.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:46.44,0:17:48.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They were exclusive to governments.\NRight.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:48.56,0:17:51.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It wasn't affecting everybody broadly.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:51.60,0:17:55.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All surveillance was targeted\Nbecause it had to be.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:55.92,0:17:57.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What changed with technology is
Dialogue: 0,0:17:57.76,0:18:00.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that surveillance could\Nnow become indiscriminate.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:00.88,0:18:02.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It could become dragnet.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:02.76,0:18:06.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It could become bulk collection,\Nwhich should become one of the dirtiest
Dialogue: 0,0:18:07.12,0:18:10.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,phrases in the language\Nif we have any kind of decency.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:11.12,0:18:14.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we were intentionally
Dialogue: 0,0:18:14.80,0:18:17.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this was intentionally concealed from us.\NRight.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:17.52,0:18:18.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The government did it.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:18.40,0:18:21.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They used classification,\Ncompanies did it.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:21.60,0:18:23.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They intentionally didn't talk about it.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:23.24,0:18:25.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They denied these things were going.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:25.52,0:18:30.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They said you agreed to this and you\Ndidn't agree to nothing like this.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:30.28,0:18:31.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm sorry.\NRight.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:31.36,0:18:33.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.\NThey go we put that terms of service page
Dialogue: 0,0:18:33.96,0:18:36.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,up and you click that,\Nyou click the button.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:36.80,0:18:38.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That said, I agree
Dialogue: 0,0:18:38.28,0:18:42.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because you were trying to open an account\Nso you could talk to your friends.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:42.32,0:18:43.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You were trying to get driving directions.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:43.96,0:18:45.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You were trying to get an email account.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:45.48,0:18:47.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You were trying to agree to some 600 page
Dialogue: 0,0:18:47.96,0:18:51.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,legal form that even if you read,\Nyou wouldn't understand.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:51.68,0:18:53.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it doesn't matter even if you did
Dialogue: 0,0:18:53.04,0:18:56.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understand, because one of the very first\Nparagraphs and it said this agreement can
Dialogue: 0,0:18:56.88,0:19:00.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be changed at any time unilaterally\Nwithout your consent by the company.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:01.08,0:19:02.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:02.56,0:19:05.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They have built a legal paradigm
Dialogue: 0,0:19:05.80,0:19:12.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that presumes records collected about us\Ndo not belong to us.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:12.36,0:19:16.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is sort of one of the core principles\Non which mass surveillance
Dialogue: 0,0:19:16.72,0:19:19.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the government's perspective\Nin the United States is legal.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:20.04,0:19:21.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you have to understand that all
Dialogue: 0,0:19:21.12,0:19:24.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the stuff we talk about today, government\Nsays everything we do is legal.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:24.40,0:19:26.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.\NAnd they go, so it's fine.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:26.68,0:19:30.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our perspective, the public should be\Nwell, that's actually the problem,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:30.76,0:19:34.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because this is an OK,\Nthe scandal isn't how they're breaking
Dialogue: 0,0:19:34.52,0:19:38.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the law, the scandals that they\Ndon't have to break the law.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:38.68,0:19:40.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the way they say they're not breaking
Dialogue: 0,0:19:40.52,0:19:43.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the law is something called\Nthe third party doctrine.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:43.28,0:19:46.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Third party doctrine is a.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:47.64,0:19:49.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Legal principle derived from a case and I
Dialogue: 0,0:19:50.12,0:19:54.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,believe the 1970s called\NSmith versus Maryland
Dialogue: 0,0:19:55.04,0:19:58.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Smith was this knucklehead who was
Dialogue: 0,0:19:58.28,0:20:02.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,harassing this lady,\Nmaking phone calls to her house.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:02.40,0:20:04.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And when she would pick up, he just,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:04.32,0:20:08.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't know, sit there, heavy breathing,\Nwhatever, like a classic creeper.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:08.80,0:20:11.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, you know, it was terrifying,\Nthis poor lady.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:11.72,0:20:13.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So she calls the cops
Dialogue: 0,0:20:14.04,0:20:18.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and says, one day I got one of these phone\Ncalls and I see this car creep past
Dialogue: 0,0:20:18.72,0:20:22.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,my house on the street\Nand she got a license plate number.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:22.32,0:20:25.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So she goes to the cops and she goes,\Nis this the guy?
Dialogue: 0,0:20:25.32,0:20:26.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the cops?
Dialogue: 0,0:20:26.48,0:20:29.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Again, they're trying\Nto do a good thing here.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:29.68,0:20:35.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They look up his license plate number\Nand they find out where this guy is
Dialogue: 0,0:20:35.04,0:20:37.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then they go, what phone number\Nis registered to that house?
Dialogue: 0,0:20:37.52,0:20:38.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they go to the phone company and they
Dialogue: 0,0:20:38.84,0:20:42.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,say, can you give us this record\Nin the phone? Company says, yeah, sure.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:42.44,0:20:44.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's the guy the cops got there, man.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:44.92,0:20:46.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:46.32,0:20:47.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So they go arrest this guy.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:47.84,0:20:52.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then in court, his lawyer brings\Nall this stuff up and they go.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:55.44,0:20:56.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:57.60,0:21:02.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You did this without a warrant that was\Nsorry, that was that was the problem was
Dialogue: 0,0:21:02.28,0:21:04.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they went to the phone company,\Nthey got the records without a warrant.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:04.56,0:21:06.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They just asked for it\Nor they subpoenaed it.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:06.48,0:21:08.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right.\NSome lower standard of legal review.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:09.16,0:21:13.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the company gave it to him and\Ngot the guy they marchmont in jail.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:14.16,0:21:16.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they could have gotten a warrant.\NRight.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:16.68,0:21:17.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it was just expedients.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:17.92,0:21:19.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They just didn't want to take the time.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:19.58,0:21:22.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Small town cops, you can\Nunderstand how it happens.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:22.16,0:21:25.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They know the guy's a creep or they\Njust want to get him off to jail.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:26.36,0:21:28.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so they made a misstep with the\Ngovernment doesn't want to let go.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:28.68,0:21:32.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They fight on this and they go.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:33.00,0:21:36.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It wasn't actually\Nthey weren't his records,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:36.72,0:21:42.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so because they didn't belong to him,\Nhe didn't have a Fourth Amendment right
Dialogue: 0,0:21:42.96,0:21:45.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to demand a warrant be issued for them,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:45.56,0:21:49.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they were the company's records and\Nthe company provided them voluntarily.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:49.04,0:21:51.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And hence no warrant was required because
Dialogue: 0,0:21:51.08,0:21:54.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can give whatever you want without\Na warrant as long as it's yours.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:54.72,0:21:56.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, here's the problem.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:56.20,0:22:01.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The government extrapolated\Na principle in a single case of a single
Dialogue: 0,0:22:01.60,0:22:08.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,known suspected criminal who they had real\Ngood reasons to suspect was their guy
Dialogue: 0,0:22:10.04,0:22:14.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and use that to go to a company and get\Nrecords from them and establish
Dialogue: 0,0:22:14.42,0:22:17.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a precedent that these records\Ndon't belong to the guy.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:17.32,0:22:18.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They belong to the company.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:18.44,0:22:21.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then they said, well,\Nif one person doesn't have
Dialogue: 0,0:22:21.68,0:22:26.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a Fourth Amendment interest in records\Nheld by a company, no one does.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:26.28,0:22:28.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so the company then has absolute
Dialogue: 0,0:22:28.60,0:22:31.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,proprietary ownership of all of these\Nrecords about all of our lives.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:31.96,0:22:33.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And remember, this is back in the 1970s.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:34.04,0:22:38.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, the Internet hardly\Nexists in these kind of contexts.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:38.09,0:22:39.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Smartphones, you know, don't exist.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:40.04,0:22:43.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Modern society, modern\Ncommunications don't exist.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:43.48,0:22:47.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the very beginning\Nof the technological era.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:47.80,0:22:53.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And flash forward now, 40 years.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:54.60,0:22:56.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they are still relying on this
Dialogue: 0,0:22:57.08,0:23:00.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,precedent about this one,\Nyou know, pervy creeper to go.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:00.48,0:23:03.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Nobody has a privacy right\Nfor anything that's held by a company.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:03.64,0:23:07.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so long as they do that,\Ncompanies are going to be extraordinarily
Dialogue: 0,0:23:07.28,0:23:09.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,powerful and they're going\Nto be extraordinarily abusive.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:09.92,0:23:11.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is something\Nthat people don't get.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:11.64,0:23:14.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They go, oh, well,\Nit's Data-Collection, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:23:14.48,0:23:16.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're exploiting data.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:16.32,0:23:18.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is data about human lives.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:19.04,0:23:21.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is state about people.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:21.32,0:23:22.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These records are about you.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:22.92,0:23:26.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not data that's being exploited.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:26.48,0:23:28.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's people that are being exploited.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:28.52,0:23:32.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not data that's being manipulated.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:32.76,0:23:33.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's you.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:33.96,0:23:36.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's being manipulated.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:36.72,0:23:39.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this this is this is something that I
Dialogue: 0,0:23:39.68,0:23:42.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think a lot of people\Nare beginning to understand.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:42.88,0:23:45.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, the problem is the companies\Nand the governments are still pretending
Dialogue: 0,0:23:45.16,0:23:47.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they don't understand or\Ndisagreeing with this.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:47.44,0:23:52.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this reminds me of something that one\Nof my old friends, John Perry Barlow,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:53.80,0:23:55.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who served with me at the Freedom
Dialogue: 0,0:23:55.76,0:23:59.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of Press Foundation,\NI'm the president of the board,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:59.40,0:24:01.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,used to say to me.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:02.52,0:24:06.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which is you can't awaken someone\Nwho's pretending to be asleep.