0:00:09.563,0:00:11.500 In Atalanta, Georgia, 0:00:11.500,0:00:15.250 one particular case was about to astonish experts 0:00:15.250,0:00:16.632 and doctors. 0:00:19.417,0:00:21.545 Dr. Michael Sabom, cardiologist, 0:00:21.545,0:00:24.329 was also studying near death experiences 0:00:24.329,0:00:27.916 when he came across one extraordinary account. 0:00:27.916,0:00:30.328 0:00:30.328,0:00:32.960 >> Pam's case is unique in the fact 0:00:32.960,0:00:35.191 that she had her near death experience at a time 0:00:35.191,0:00:37.853 she was fully instrumented and under 0:00:37.853,0:00:39.545 medical observation. 0:00:39.545,0:00:42.449 And I think if you wanted to construct 0:00:42.449,0:00:44.639 a laboratory experiment 0:00:44.639,0:00:46.899 where you had someone and took them 0:00:46.899,0:00:50.797 as close to death or perhaps even into death 0:00:50.797,0:00:53.159 as possible and then bring them back 0:00:53.159,0:00:55.781 and ask them what they could recall, 0:00:55.781,0:00:57.985 Pam's case probably comes closest to that 0:00:57.985,0:01:00.568 than any other so far that we know of. 0:01:00.568,0:01:05.199 0:01:05.199,0:01:06.814 >> Pam Reynolds was an established 0:01:06.814,0:01:10.312 songwriter/singer and a busy working mother. 0:01:10.928,0:01:14.322 In 1991, she became seriously ill. 0:01:16.553,0:01:19.532 >> I began to experience extreme dizziness, 0:01:19.532,0:01:21.376 loss of speech, 0:01:21.376,0:01:24.391 some difficulty in moving the body 0:01:24.391,0:01:26.911 and it was at that point that my physician 0:01:26.911,0:01:29.245 recommended that I have a CT scan. 0:01:29.968,0:01:33.518 And a CT scan of course showed the aneurysm 0:01:33.518,0:01:34.908 and it was a big one. 0:01:34.908,0:01:36.771 It was a giant aneurysm. 0:01:37.310,0:01:39.447 I was referred to a neurologist 0:01:39.447,0:01:41.214 and the neurologist gave me little or 0:01:41.214,0:01:43.950 no chance of survival at all. 0:01:46.412,0:01:48.878 >> But for Pam, there was one last hope. 0:01:49.632,0:01:51.353 She made what she assumed would be 0:01:51.353,0:01:52.743 her last journey, 0:01:52.743,0:01:55.491 2000 miles to the Barrow Neurological Institute 0:01:55.491,0:01:57.258 in Phoenix, Arizona. 0:01:57.258,0:02:00.217 0:02:00.217,0:02:02.246 >> I remember the bright sunshine. 0:02:02.799,0:02:05.866 The light in Phoenix, Arizona is piercing, 0:02:05.866,0:02:07.761 from sun up on. 0:02:08.361,0:02:11.212 And I remember getting into the shower. 0:02:11.212,0:02:13.134 I had been given a scrub kit 0:02:13.134,0:02:16.675 with a hard bristle brush and antibacterial solution 0:02:16.675,0:02:20.521 to reduce the chances of infection, I'm sure. 0:02:20.521,0:02:23.660 To this day I can remember the stinging 0:02:23.660,0:02:27.803 of that brush and that solution on my skin. 0:02:27.803,0:02:30.708 I can remember being placed on a gurney. 0:02:30.708,0:02:32.941 I remember the squeaking of the wheels. 0:02:32.941,0:02:36.197 0:02:36.197,0:02:38.826 >> Neurosurgeon, Dr. Robert Spetzler, 0:02:38.826,0:02:42.622 decided to take on Pam's case against all odds. 0:02:42.622,0:02:47.599 0:02:47.599,0:02:49.438 >> What we're looking at is the aneurysm 0:02:49.438,0:02:52.300 that she had which is at the very base of the brain. 0:02:52.300,0:02:54.408 This is the balloon that can burst 0:02:54.408,0:02:57.085 and cause this incredible catastrophe 0:02:57.085,0:02:59.242 in the patient's brain. 0:02:59.242,0:03:01.915 Why is this so difficult in this particular case? 0:03:02.085,0:03:05.534 I think probably easiest to see here by, 0:03:05.534,0:03:09.329 when you look at this plastic model of the head, 0:03:10.299,0:03:13.800 and we turn it around and we take out the top 0:03:13.800,0:03:15.106 of the brain. 0:03:15.106,0:03:16.033 0:03:16.033,0:03:19.067 What we're really talking about is that aneurysm 0:03:19.067,0:03:22.172 is all the way at the very base of the brain 0:03:22.172,0:03:24.617 and that is why it is so incredibly difficult 0:03:24.617,0:03:25.825 to get there. 0:03:25.825,0:03:27.943 So, you have to go somehow through the skull, 0:03:27.943,0:03:29.402 because remember the face is here 0:03:29.402,0:03:30.785 and the neck is down here, 0:03:30.785,0:03:33.375 to get down to this very difficult spot. 0:03:33.375,0:03:36.665 When we look at it on an actual brain, 0:03:37.403,0:03:41.428 we can actually see where that is. 0:03:41.997,0:03:43.801 That's the bottom of brain. 0:03:43.801,0:03:47.721 If that fit in here, it would be like this. 0:03:47.721,0:03:49.920 So, we're going to turn both of them around. 0:03:49.920,0:03:51.454 And now we're looking at what's called, 0:03:51.454,0:03:53.773 the brain stem which is this function. 0:03:53.773,0:03:56.218 All the function of the brain passes through 0:03:56.218,0:03:57.584 the brain stem. 0:03:57.584,0:04:00.229 And where this particular aneurysm was 0:04:00.229,0:04:03.467 is sitting right smack dab at the very middle 0:04:03.467,0:04:05.020 at the base of the brain. 0:04:05.020,0:04:07.381 And that's why it's so difficult to access, 0:04:07.381,0:04:09.216 that's why it's so difficult to treat, 0:04:09.216,0:04:12.339 and that's why it's so catastrophic when it bleeds. 0:04:12.339,0:04:15.470 0:04:15.470,0:04:17.889 >> The operation Pam was about to undergo 0:04:17.889,0:04:20.505 was known as, Operation Stand Still. 0:04:20.505,0:04:22.742 0:04:22.742,0:04:24.804 Pam's body temperature would be lowered 0:04:24.804,0:04:28.520 to between ten and fifteen degrees centigrade, 0:04:28.520,0:04:30.379 her heart and breathing stopped, 0:04:30.379,0:04:32.191 her brainwaves flattened, 0:04:32.191,0:04:35.166 and the blood drained from her head. 0:04:35.166,0:04:37.120 She would be clinically dead for a whole hour 0:04:37.120,0:04:38.321 of the operation. 0:04:38.321,0:04:40.300 0:04:40.300,0:04:43.053 >> What we want to do is we want to bring that brain 0:04:43.053,0:04:44.269 to a halt. 0:04:44.269,0:04:46.550 We don't just want the brain to be asleep, 0:04:46.550,0:04:49.644 we want the metabolic activity of the brain to stop. 0:04:49.644,0:04:54.830 Every measurable output that the body puts out, 0:04:54.830,0:04:57.340 really disappears completely. 0:04:57.340,0:04:59.709 So, that you have no measurable 0:04:59.709,0:05:02.217 neuronal activity whatsoever. 0:05:02.985,0:05:05.669 Prior to the operation starting, 0:05:05.669,0:05:07.217 a lot of activity goes on. 0:05:07.217,0:05:09.586 The patient is put to sleep. 0:05:10.293,0:05:11.950 The eyes are taped shut. 0:05:11.950,0:05:15.364 there are little clicking devices put in each ear 0:05:15.364,0:05:17.943 in order to monitor the brain. 0:05:18.296,0:05:19.996 The patient is then completely covered. 0:05:19.996,0:05:21.766 The only thing that's really exposed 0:05:21.766,0:05:24.777 is the area of the head where we work. 0:05:25.839,0:05:28.569 >> I don't remember an operating room. 0:05:28.569,0:05:31.955 I don't remember seeing Dr. Spetzler at all. 0:05:31.955,0:05:33.920 I was with a fellow, 0:05:33.920,0:05:38.171 one of his fellows was with me at that time. 0:05:40.339,0:05:42.523 After that, nothing. 0:05:43.477,0:05:45.159 Absolutely nothing. 0:05:46.483,0:05:47.830 Until the sound. 0:05:48.691,0:05:50.785 [bone saw whirring] 0:05:50.785,0:05:53.076 0:05:53.076,0:05:57.227 And the sound was unpleasant. 0:05:57.903,0:05:59.600 It was guttural. 0:05:59.600,0:06:03.501 It was reminiscent of being in a dentist office. 0:06:05.762,0:06:09.419 And I remember the top of my head tingling 0:06:10.296,0:06:15.181 and I just sort of popped out of the top of my head. 0:06:17.150,0:06:18.979 And I was then looking down at the body. 0:06:18.979,0:06:21.100 I knew it was my body, 0:06:21.100,0:06:23.188 but I didn't care. 0:06:23.864,0:06:26.502 My vantage point was sort of sitting 0:06:26.502,0:06:28.250 on the doctor's shoulder. 0:06:28.250,0:06:32.132 I remember the instrument in his hand. 0:06:32.132,0:06:36.424 It looked like the handle to my electric toothbrush. 0:06:37.516,0:06:40.866 I had assumed they were going to open the skull 0:06:40.866,0:06:42.110 with a saw. 0:06:42.633,0:06:45.424 I had heard the term, saw, 0:06:45.424,0:06:48.092 but what I saw looked a lot more like a drill 0:06:48.092,0:06:49.568 than a saw. 0:06:49.568,0:06:53.528 It even had little bits that were kept in this case 0:06:53.528,0:06:56.212 that looked like a case that my father stored his 0:06:56.212,0:06:59.520 socket wrenches in when I was a child. 0:06:59.520,0:07:01.549 And I remember distinctly hearing a female 0:07:01.549,0:07:03.107 voice saying, 0:07:03.707,0:07:05.439 >> We have a problem. 0:07:05.439,0:07:07.074 Her arteries are too small. 0:07:07.336,0:07:09.330 >> Try the other side. 0:07:11.253,0:07:13.723 >> It seemed to come from further 0:07:13.723,0:07:14.870 down on the table. 0:07:14.870,0:07:18.442 I do remember wondering, what are they doing? 0:07:18.442,0:07:21.476 Because this is brain surgery. 0:07:21.476,0:07:23.489 And what had happened was they accessed 0:07:23.489,0:07:27.035 the femoral arteries in order to drain the blood. 0:07:27.035,0:07:30.216 And I did not understand that. 0:07:33.215,0:07:34.664 >> In the process of my study, 0:07:34.664,0:07:37.901 I went and interviewed Dr. Spetzler and looked at 0:07:37.901,0:07:41.325 his operative report and I found that what she saw 0:07:41.325,0:07:42.833 from her out of body experience, 0:07:42.833,0:07:46.086 seemingly corresponded very accurately 0:07:46.086,0:07:48.574 to what had actually occurred. 0:07:48.574,0:07:52.031 She looked at the bone saw that was being used 0:07:52.031,0:07:54.976 to cut open her skull. 0:07:54.976,0:07:58.151 I didn't have any idea what this thing looked like. 0:07:58.151,0:08:00.648 She described it as an electric toothbrush 0:08:00.648,0:08:02.565 which I thought was ridiculous. 0:08:02.565,0:08:05.148 I had to send off for a picture of this saw 0:08:05.148,0:08:08.282 to Fort Worth, Texas to confirm whether or not 0:08:08.282,0:08:11.601 what she said it looked like actually was accurate. 0:08:11.601,0:08:14.046 And I was astounded when I saw the picture. 0:08:14.046,0:08:17.917 It indeed does resemble an electric toothbrush. 0:08:18.317,0:08:23.385 >> I don't think that the observations she made 0:08:24.461,0:08:28.707 were based on what she experienced as she went 0:08:28.707,0:08:30.528 into the operating room theater. 0:08:30.528,0:08:33.687 They were just not available to her. 0:08:33.687,0:08:35.143 For example, the drill and so on, 0:08:35.143,0:08:36.801 those things are all covered up. 0:08:36.801,0:08:38.027 They're not visible. 0:08:38.027,0:08:39.628 They were inside their packages. 0:08:39.628,0:08:42.327 You really don't begin to open until the patient 0:08:42.327,0:08:45.023 iIs completely asleep so that you maintain 0:08:45.023,0:08:46.778 a sterile environment. 0:08:46.778,0:08:49.278 >> She also heard a conversation 0:08:49.278,0:08:52.265 during the operation between Dr. Spetzler 0:08:52.265,0:08:54.627 and the cardiovascular surgeons who were cutting 0:08:54.627,0:08:56.967 into her legs to hook her up to 0:08:56.967,0:08:59.179 the heart-lung machine 0:08:59.179,0:09:02.909 When the cardiac surgeon incised her right groin, 0:09:02.909,0:09:05.383 she found that her veins and arteries were too small 0:09:05.383,0:09:07.780 and she had to go over to the left side. 0:09:07.780,0:09:09.587 And there was some conversation at the time 0:09:09.587,0:09:11.265 between the doctors. 0:09:11.265,0:09:16.165 Pam accurately recalled hearing that conversation. 0:09:16.165,0:09:18.412 >> At that stage in the operation, 0:09:18.412,0:09:22.509 nobody can observe, hear, 0:09:22.509,0:09:24.250 in that state. 0:09:24.250,0:09:29.598 And I find it inconceivable that your normal senses 0:09:29.598,0:09:31.733 such as hearing, let alone the fact that she 0:09:31.733,0:09:34.293 had clicking modules in each ear, 0:09:34.293,0:09:36.913 that there was any way for her to hear those 0:09:36.913,0:09:40.137 through normal auditory pathways. 0:09:40.599,0:09:43.906 >> So, again, this is very suggestive of the fact 0:09:43.906,0:09:47.397 that there was some sort of extrasensory perception 0:09:47.397,0:09:48.865 or out of body experience 0:09:48.865,0:09:52.001 or whatever occurring at the time that was allowing 0:09:52.001,0:09:56.353 Pam to hear accurately and seemingly see 0:09:56.353,0:09:59.345 accurately what was going on in the operating room 0:09:59.345,0:10:00.639 at the time. 0:10:00.639,0:10:05.136 0:10:05.136,0:10:07.071 >> I felt a presence. 0:10:07.918,0:10:10.469 I sort of turned around to look at it. 0:10:11.161,0:10:16.158 And that's when I saw the very tiny pinpoint of light. 0:10:18.742,0:10:21.074 And the light started to pull me. 0:10:21.597,0:10:24.509 And there was a physical sensation to the pulling 0:10:24.509,0:10:27.917 and I know how that must sound. 0:10:28.410,0:10:30.053 Nonetheless, it's true. 0:10:30.053,0:10:31.906 There was a physical sensation, 0:10:31.906,0:10:36.025 rather like going over a hill real fast, 0:10:36.025,0:10:37.351 in your tummy. 0:10:38.444,0:10:41.691 And I went toward the light. 0:10:43.583,0:10:46.809 The closer I got to the light, I began to discern 0:10:46.809,0:10:48.985 different figures, 0:10:48.985,0:10:49.686 different people. 0:10:49.686,0:10:53.250 And I distinctly heard my grandmother call me. 0:10:53.250,0:10:55.610 She has a very distinct voice. 0:10:56.549,0:10:58.914 And I immediately went to her. 0:10:59.868,0:11:02.244 And it felt great. 0:11:04.937,0:11:08.582 And I saw an uncle who passed away 0:11:08.582,0:11:11.287 when he was only thirty-nine years old. 0:11:11.856,0:11:13.013 He taught me a lot. 0:11:13.013,0:11:16.062 He taught me to play my first guitar. 0:11:17.154,0:11:19.301 And I saw many, many people I knew 0:11:19.301,0:11:21.881 and many, many I didn't know 0:11:21.881,0:11:23.878 but I knew I was somehow in someway 0:11:23.878,0:11:25.476 connected to them. 0:11:25.999,0:11:29.397 I asked if God was the light. 0:11:30.274,0:11:31.423 And the answer was, 0:11:31.423,0:11:34.728 no, God is not the light, 0:11:34.728,0:11:39.426 the light is what happens when God breathes. 0:11:40.565,0:11:42.586 And I stood there thinking, 0:11:42.586,0:11:46.106 I'm standing in the breath of God. 0:11:46.106,0:11:51.371 0:11:51.371,0:11:54.845 At some point in time, 0:11:54.845,0:11:58.012 I was reminded that it was time to go back. 0:11:58.796,0:12:01.345 Of course, I had made my decision to go back 0:12:01.345,0:12:03.931 before I ever laid down on that table 0:12:03.931,0:12:05.997 but you know, the more I was there, 0:12:05.997,0:12:07.155 the better I liked it. 0:12:08.031,0:12:11.956 And my uncle was the one who brought me 0:12:11.956,0:12:13.797 back down to the body. 0:12:15.444,0:12:18.308 But then I got to where the body was and I looked 0:12:18.308,0:12:22.042 at the thing, and I for sure did not want 0:12:22.042,0:12:24.027 to get in it because it looked pretty much 0:12:24.027,0:12:25.816 like what it was, 0:12:26.769,0:12:28.999 as in void of life. 0:12:29.352,0:12:31.208 And I knew it would hurt 0:12:31.208,0:12:33.078 so, I didn't want to get in. 0:12:33.617,0:12:35.967 He kept reasoning with me. 0:12:35.967,0:12:37.898 He said it's like diving into a swimming pool, 0:12:37.898,0:12:39.440 just jump in. 0:12:40.455,0:12:41.355 No. 0:12:41.355,0:12:43.134 [laughing] 0:12:43.365,0:12:44.652 What about the children? 0:12:44.652,0:12:45.335 You know what? 0:12:45.335,0:12:47.042 I think the children will be fine. 0:12:47.042,0:12:49.338 [Laughing] 0:12:49.922,0:12:51.284 Honey, you gotta go. 0:12:52.269,0:12:53.600 No. 0:12:53.600,0:12:55.359 He pushed me. 0:12:55.867,0:12:57.875 He gave me a little help there. 0:12:59.352,0:13:01.079 It's taken a long time, but I think I'm ready 0:13:01.079,0:13:02.552 to forgive him for that. 0:13:02.552,0:13:04.231 [Laughing] 0:13:04.231,0:13:09.924 But - I landed - I saw the body jump. 0:13:10.478,0:13:12.991 I saw it do this number. 0:13:13.622,0:13:16.595 And then he pushed me and I felt it 0:13:16.595,0:13:18.130 do this number. 0:13:18.130,0:13:25.382 0:13:25.382,0:13:28.266 >> This is a classic near death experience 0:13:28.266,0:13:31.536 occurring under extremely monitored 0:13:31.536,0:13:35.227 medical conditions where every known vial sign 0:13:35.227,0:13:35.627 0:13:35.627,0:13:39.365 and basically every clinical sign of life 0:13:39.365,0:13:41.265 and death was being monitored at the time. 0:13:41.265,0:13:45.138 And that's what makes her case so remarkable 0:13:45.138,0:13:47.064 and so valuable to us. 0:13:47.526,0:13:49.700 >> I don't have an explanation for it. 0:13:49.700,0:13:54.226 I don't know how it's possible for it to happen 0:13:54.226,0:13:57.628 considering the physiological state she's in. 0:13:57.628,0:14:00.295 At the same time, I have seen so many things 0:14:00.295,0:14:02.736 that I can't explain that I don't want to be 0:14:02.736,0:14:05.356 so arrogant as to be able to say, 0:14:05.356,0:14:07.693 that there's no way it can happen. 0:14:09.093,0:14:11.761 >> Pam's case points to the fact that somehow 0:14:11.761,0:14:14.199 she was able to retain coherent perception 0:14:14.199,0:14:16.422 and memory whilst clinically dead.