[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:09.44,0:00:11.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All right.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:12.09,0:00:15.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, my name's Carl Fisher \Nand I'm a forensic psychiatrist.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:15.73,0:00:18.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That means I work \Nin the kind of psychiatry
Dialogue: 0,0:00:18.21,0:00:19.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that deals with the court system,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:19.76,0:00:22.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the kind of evidence people \Nbring about neuroscience,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:22.42,0:00:25.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mental health, psychiatric diagnosis
Dialogue: 0,0:00:25.02,0:00:28.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the way that impacts \Nthe way we think about law.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:28.30,0:00:31.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, today I wanted \Nto talk about punishment,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:31.17,0:00:33.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because one thing \NI've become interested in
Dialogue: 0,0:00:33.32,0:00:37.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is, a new trend, people are actually \Nusing neuroscience itself --
Dialogue: 0,0:00:37.01,0:00:40.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,brain scans, brain images -- in the court \Nto make certain arguments
Dialogue: 0,0:00:40.61,0:00:42.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the way we punish individuals,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:42.93,0:00:46.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or even about the way our legal system \Nshould function overall.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:46.04,0:00:47.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In its most simple form,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:47.90,0:00:52.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this takes the shape, \N"It wasn't me, it was my brain."
Dialogue: 0,0:00:52.11,0:00:55.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, it sounds a little sketchy \Nwhen you see it at first, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:00:55.16,0:00:57.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It doesn't make total intuitive sense.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:57.27,0:00:59.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If my brain is the thing \Nthat produces my mind,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:59.55,0:01:01.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if that's where my experiences, \Nand my thoughts,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:01.85,0:01:04.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and all of my feelings \Nand motivations are stored,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:04.22,0:01:06.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then how could a reference to my brain
Dialogue: 0,0:01:06.34,0:01:09.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mean that I'm not responsible \Nfor a crime that I commit?
Dialogue: 0,0:01:09.64,0:01:11.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let me tell you a story
Dialogue: 0,0:01:11.34,0:01:13.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that might help to set the scene
Dialogue: 0,0:01:13.27,0:01:16.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and understand some of the issues here.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:16.44,0:01:18.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, this is a real story.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:18.04,0:01:20.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It happened not too long ago in Virginia,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:20.63,0:01:26.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where this mild-mannered, \Nmiddle aged guy, early 40's, stable life,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:26.31,0:01:28.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had a wife, kids, picket fence.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:28.25,0:01:30.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then, all of a sudden, \Nhe develops this interest --
Dialogue: 0,0:01:30.63,0:01:32.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,brand-new, he hides it at first --
Dialogue: 0,0:01:32.20,0:01:33.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in child pornography.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:33.88,0:01:35.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He starts collecting it,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:35.97,0:01:38.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he starts secretly gathering it.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:38.11,0:01:39.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then, it starts to get worse:
Dialogue: 0,0:01:39.70,0:01:41.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he gets interested in massage parlors.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:41.66,0:01:43.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He starts propositioning people for sex.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:43.97,0:01:45.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then, eventually, saddly,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:45.78,0:01:47.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,his wife catches him \Nmaking sexual advances
Dialogue: 0,0:01:47.93,0:01:49.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,toward his twelve-year-old kid.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:49.61,0:01:51.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, he's brought before court
Dialogue: 0,0:01:51.84,0:01:54.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and he's convicted of child molestation.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:54.78,0:01:57.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, as a first-time offender, \Nhe gets the opportunity
Dialogue: 0,0:01:57.38,0:01:58.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to engage in a treatment program.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:58.100,0:02:00.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, he goes to treatment groups,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:00.81,0:02:02.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he gets some sort of therapy,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:02.62,0:02:05.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but he fails miserably, \Nbecause he can't stop propositioning
Dialogue: 0,0:02:05.53,0:02:07.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the other people in the groups.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:07.24,0:02:09.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, he's scheduled to go back to court,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:09.16,0:02:10.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and this time he's getting sentenced.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:10.71,0:02:13.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This time, everyone knows \Nthat he's going to get some jail time.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:13.76,0:02:16.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The night before the court,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:16.32,0:02:17.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he goes to the emergency room,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:17.96,0:02:20.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and he's complaining \Nof the worst headache of his life.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:20.57,0:02:22.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Once people get \Nthe full story, they think,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:22.31,0:02:25.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Hey, maybe this is... he's trying \Nto get out of his punishment.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:25.77,0:02:29.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This doesn't seem \Nlike it really hangs together."
Dialogue: 0,0:02:29.13,0:02:32.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But they give the guy \Nthe benefit of the doubt
Dialogue: 0,0:02:32.46,0:02:34.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they do a brain scan.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:34.79,0:02:38.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they find this. It's a huge tumor \Nin his frontal lobe.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:38.38,0:02:39.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Luckily for him, it's a benign tumor.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:39.87,0:02:41.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's actually just a bone tumor
Dialogue: 0,0:02:41.34,0:02:43.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's pressing on \Nhis orbital frontal cortex,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:43.71,0:02:46.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is the part of the brain \Nthat people think governs
Dialogue: 0,0:02:46.36,0:02:48.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,social behavior and social regulation.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:48.83,0:02:51.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, they remove the tumor, \Nthe guy does all right,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:51.98,0:02:53.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he goes back to the treatment court
Dialogue: 0,0:02:53.88,0:02:56.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and he passes with flying colors.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:56.14,0:02:58.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He's back to his \Nnormal mild-mannered self.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:58.62,0:02:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then, a couple years later,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:59.99,0:03:01.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he starts to develop these urges again,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:01.50,0:03:03.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but, thankfully, \Nhe's on the lookout for it.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:03.87,0:03:06.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He goes back. \NSure enough, the tumor is back.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:06.55,0:03:09.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's removed again and he's fine.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:09.24,0:03:11.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, as far as we know, to this day,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:11.77,0:03:13.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,no more problems.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:13.36,0:03:16.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, my point here is that this notion,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:16.13,0:03:19.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"It wasn't me, it was my brain" \Nsounds a little odd at first,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:19.80,0:03:22.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but maybe there are certain cases \Nwhere it actually makes sense.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:22.54,0:03:25.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Maybe there are certain cases \Nwhere we have to investigate
Dialogue: 0,0:03:25.29,0:03:27.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a little further.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:27.04,0:03:31.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is some research from some \NDuke University law researchers,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:31.45,0:03:33.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,looking at court cases,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:33.18,0:03:35.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how often they say \Nactual neuroscience,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:35.38,0:03:38.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how often somebody produces brain imaging
Dialogue: 0,0:03:38.51,0:03:39.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or brain scanning evidence.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:39.96,0:03:43.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, in 2005, we already had \Nabout a hundred cases
Dialogue: 0,0:03:43.27,0:03:45.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where people were doing this.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:45.19,0:03:47.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is growing exponentially, though.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:47.92,0:03:50.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, in just seven years,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:50.62,0:03:52.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more than double the number of cases
Dialogue: 0,0:03:52.31,0:03:53.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have been produced in court.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:53.66,0:03:56.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, this is happening, \Nit's already getting traction.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:56.18,0:03:59.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And these are only the court cases \Nthat are reported in opinions.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:59.26,0:04:00.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's probably more going on
Dialogue: 0,0:04:00.93,0:04:02.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the everyday pratice of courts.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:02.84,0:04:05.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, in most cases, \Nthis has to do with mitigation,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:05.56,0:04:07.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it has to do with lowering \Nsomeone's sentence,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:07.77,0:04:09.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not getting them off entirely.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:09.98,0:04:13.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I'm going to give a couple \Nof examples about how this works.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:13.06,0:04:14.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, in the United States,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:14.95,0:04:18.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's a famous case of a serial killer \Ncalled Brian Dugan.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:18.15,0:04:20.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I won't get into \Nthe gruesome details,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:20.38,0:04:23.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the point is that there's \Nno doubt about his guilt.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:23.00,0:04:25.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was very clear \Nthat this man was guilty.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:25.12,0:04:27.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, the prosecution \Nwas going for the death penalty.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:27.61,0:04:30.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The defense lawyers decided \Nthat the strategy would be,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:30.75,0:04:32.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Let's get an expert in brain imaging,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:32.66,0:04:34.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,scan his brain and put up some cartoons
Dialogue: 0,0:04:34.55,0:04:36.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make a very novel argument."
Dialogue: 0,0:04:36.04,0:04:38.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was the first time it happened \Nin American courts.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:38.62,0:04:41.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they argued that Mr. Dugan \Nhad psychopathy.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:41.13,0:04:43.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Psychopathy \Nis a special medical condition.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:43.52,0:04:46.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As indicated by his brain scans,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:46.01,0:04:49.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he can't engage in a normal \Nsort of impulse regulation,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:49.48,0:04:51.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he can't govern his behavior.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:51.35,0:04:54.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's just something wrong \Nwith his brain, it's not him.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:54.30,0:04:58.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's always hard to say exactly\Nwhat causes a particular event,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:58.43,0:05:00.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what causes the jury to make a decision,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:00.88,0:05:04.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but, in this case, they actually \Nvoided the death penalty.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:04.33,0:05:07.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, for an even more stark example,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:07.06,0:05:08.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,let's go over to Italy.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:08.56,0:05:12.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is a woman, Stefania Albertani, \Njust a couple of years ago,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:12.79,0:05:15.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who killed her sister, \Nattempted to murder her parents,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:15.63,0:05:16.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and got a life sentence.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:16.94,0:05:18.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But then, the defense got the opportunity
Dialogue: 0,0:05:18.69,0:05:20.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to present some more evidence.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:20.19,0:05:22.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They presented some evidence \Nabout brain imaging
Dialogue: 0,0:05:22.28,0:05:24.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they made the argument \Nthat the brain areas
Dialogue: 0,0:05:24.51,0:05:27.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that govern impulsivity \Nwere disfunctional in her.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:27.30,0:05:31.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, they managed to reduce her \Nlife sentence down to tweny years.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:31.70,0:05:33.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we're already seeing some evidence
Dialogue: 0,0:05:33.77,0:05:35.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that this stuff is working,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:35.12,0:05:37.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's getting traction, it's being used,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:37.24,0:05:39.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and, in particular cases, brain imaging
Dialogue: 0,0:05:39.20,0:05:42.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is actually managing to lower \Nparticular people's sentences.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:42.35,0:05:45.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But does it have any impact \Non the court system at all?
Dialogue: 0,0:05:45.24,0:05:48.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Can it change the way \Nthat we punish people overall?
Dialogue: 0,0:05:48.53,0:05:51.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, to answer that question,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:51.05,0:05:53.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm going to turn \Nto the US juvenile justice systems.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:53.67,0:05:57.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, if you've had any familiarity\Nor any encounters with this system,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:57.00,0:05:59.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you'll know that the US \Ncan be pretty harsh
Dialogue: 0,0:05:59.10,0:06:01.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when it comes to punishing kids.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:01.04,0:06:03.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Until recently, \Nkids could get the death penalty,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.53,0:06:05.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they could be sentenced \Nto life without parole.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:05.90,0:06:08.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there's been a series \Nof recent supreme court cases
Dialogue: 0,0:06:08.79,0:06:10.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that challenged that notion.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:10.65,0:06:14.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first was in 2005, \NRoper versus Simmons,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:14.50,0:06:17.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and this was a case \Nthat challenged the death penalty
Dialogue: 0,0:06:17.07,0:06:19.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for sixteen and seventeen-year-olds.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:19.05,0:06:22.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the majority opinion ruled \Nthat that was unconstitutional,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:22.06,0:06:25.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you couldn't give \Nthe death penalty to juveniles.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:25.25,0:06:27.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's an especially notable case,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:27.23,0:06:28.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because, for the first time,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:28.71,0:06:31.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the supreme court actually cited \Nneuroscience data.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:31.38,0:06:34.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They said not only \Nare adolescents not fully mature,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:34.64,0:06:37.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that brain imaging and brain scaning \Nactually shows us that.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.55,0:06:40.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They show that the brain is still \Ndeveloping and evolving at that age.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:40.86,0:06:42.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's part of their justification
Dialogue: 0,0:06:42.81,0:06:45.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for why this is unconstitutional.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:45.12,0:06:47.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moving ahead to more recent cases,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:47.89,0:06:49.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,two more cases just very recently
Dialogue: 0,0:06:49.95,0:06:53.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,challenged the possibility \Nof life without parole for juveniles,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:53.03,0:06:54.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,again found unconstitutional.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:54.52,0:06:58.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But what's notable is, as we go \Nin progression, case to case,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:58.53,0:07:00.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the amount of the court opinion \N
Dialogue: 0,0:07:00.05,0:07:02.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's devoted to neuroscience \Nis increasing.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:02.38,0:07:04.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What was just a footnote \Nin Roper versus Simmons
Dialogue: 0,0:07:04.67,0:07:06.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is now a whole section
Dialogue: 0,0:07:06.12,0:07:08.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the most recent case \Nof Miller versus Alabama.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:08.72,0:07:11.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we see that, \Nin the highest court of the US,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:11.36,0:07:13.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's more and more \Nfocus on neuroscience.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:13.46,0:07:16.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's getting more traction.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:16.09,0:07:19.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, this has led some folks, \Nespecially in Academia,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:19.14,0:07:21.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make some claims \Nabout how neuroscience
Dialogue: 0,0:07:21.05,0:07:23.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should change the way we think \Nabout neuroscience overall,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:23.84,0:07:26.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about how our punishment practices \Nin the US should be changed.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:26.66,0:07:28.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, this is David Eagleman.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:28.30,0:07:30.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He's a neuroscientist down at Baylor
Dialogue: 0,0:07:30.32,0:07:32.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and he's got a good example.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:32.19,0:07:33.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He says that criminal activity
Dialogue: 0,0:07:33.74,0:07:35.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should be taken as evidence \Nof brain abnormality.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:35.99,0:07:37.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We shouldn't see it as bad behavior.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:37.58,0:07:40.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We should just see it \Nas some sort of biological disfunction,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:40.39,0:07:43.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and, furthermore, that we should \Ntailor punishment to individuals,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:43.77,0:07:45.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it should just be about rehabilitation,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:45.96,0:07:48.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it should just be about treatment.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:48.19,0:07:50.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is becoming a very fashionable idea
Dialogue: 0,0:07:50.92,0:07:53.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,throughout all the halls of Academia.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:53.08,0:07:55.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Philosophers, law professors, \Nneuroscientists
Dialogue: 0,0:07:55.93,0:07:59.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are now looking to neuroscience \Nto provide a justification.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:59.69,0:08:02.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Punishment in the United States \Nright now, they say,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:02.26,0:08:04.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is too retribution-based.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:04.76,0:08:07.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're trying to give people \Ntheir just deserts.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:07.06,0:08:10.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What we should be doing \Nis be focusing on rehabilitation,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:10.78,0:08:13.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about helping people.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:13.02,0:08:15.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, it sounds like \Nan attractive concept, right,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:15.40,0:08:18.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to have a more humane \Nand more just punishment system,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:18.88,0:08:21.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I think we need \Nto look to history for some lessons
Dialogue: 0,0:08:21.52,0:08:23.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about how this might play out.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:23.27,0:08:28.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, this is a picture \Nof the Alcatraz jazz band, in the 1950's.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:28.37,0:08:30.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, back around this time, \Nthe 1950's and 60's,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:30.68,0:08:35.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in US punishment philosophy \Nand US punishment justifications,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:35.03,0:08:37.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people were very invested \Nin the rehabilitation model.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:37.59,0:08:41.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was a lot of focus on \Naddressing the root causes of crime.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:41.06,0:08:44.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Maybe if we can provide people \Nwith useful opportunities,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:44.58,0:08:48.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ways to develop themselves \Nas people, we can prevent crime,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:48.04,0:08:49.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and once people are released,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:49.89,0:08:53.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we won't get the same rates \Nof recidivism as we do normally.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:53.68,0:08:55.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The problem with this \Nwas that it didn't work.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:55.96,0:08:59.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The social reformers were \Noverclaiming, overpromising,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:59.46,0:09:01.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then, when those results \Nweren't realized,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:01.65,0:09:04.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it set the stage for a backlash.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:04.38,0:09:06.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, by the 1980's,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:06.35,0:09:08.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have a totally different retoric.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:08.77,0:09:12.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have the war on crime, \Nmandatory minimum sentences,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:12.23,0:09:14.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,determinative sentences \Nthat take more of the choice
Dialogue: 0,0:09:14.71,0:09:16.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out of judges' hands.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:16.87,0:09:18.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what I'd like to suggest
Dialogue: 0,0:09:18.83,0:09:21.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that this is, in large part, \Ndue to a setup.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.97,0:09:25.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The social reformers \Nof the 50's and 60's, by overpromising,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:25.48,0:09:27.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,set the stage for this sort of backlash,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:27.44,0:09:29.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when the pendulum swung back
Dialogue: 0,0:09:29.07,0:09:32.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,toward a more \Nretribution-based punishment system.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:32.54,0:09:35.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is a graph of incarceration rates \Nin the United States,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:35.45,0:09:36.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a function of population.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:36.83,0:09:38.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, it's just the proportion of people
Dialogue: 0,0:09:38.73,0:09:40.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are locked up at any given time.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:40.55,0:09:43.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, what we see here is, \Ndating back to 1925,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:43.68,0:09:46.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,incarceration rates \Nwere relatively stable,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:46.16,0:09:48.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including through the social reform era.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:48.21,0:09:51.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But then, around this time, \Nin the late 1970's, 1980's,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:51.72,0:09:54.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where the tough-on-crime retoric \Nstarts to pick up speed,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:54.82,0:09:58.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we see a massive increase \Nin incarceration rates.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:58.06,0:10:02.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, to bring us back to neuroscience,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:02.23,0:10:03.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the story I want to tell
Dialogue: 0,0:10:03.77,0:10:06.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that it has implications for what we do
Dialogue: 0,0:10:06.72,0:10:08.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the science that we're using.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:08.37,0:10:10.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To promote a treatment model sounds good,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:10.11,0:10:13.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we have to be careful about\Nwhat scientific arguments we hitch
Dialogue: 0,0:10:13.44,0:10:15.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on to our policy argument.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:16.31,0:10:19.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Neuroscience might have \Na limited role in the court room.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:19.33,0:10:21.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In cases where someone has a tumor,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:21.06,0:10:24.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in cases where someone \Nhas a clearly identified abnormality,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:24.33,0:10:26.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it might be useful \Nto investigate further.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:26.59,0:10:29.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, even then, facts are just facts, \Nand that's how science works.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:29.20,0:10:31.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They give us the facts, but then, \Nin the court of law,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:31.19,0:10:33.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or in ethics or in any sort \Nof value system,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:33.71,0:10:35.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then we have to make the active step
Dialogue: 0,0:10:35.71,0:10:38.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of making a determination \Nabout what actually matters.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:38.96,0:10:43.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd like to suggest \Nthat the dangerous part of this trend
Dialogue: 0,0:10:43.13,0:10:46.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is this notion: \N"It isn't us, it's our brains."
Dialogue: 0,0:10:46.99,0:10:50.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To argue for a systemwide reform \Non the basis of neuroscience
Dialogue: 0,0:10:50.22,0:10:52.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gets in a dangerous territory.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:52.82,0:10:57.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We've already seen that making \Noverpromises and making overclaims
Dialogue: 0,0:10:57.17,0:10:59.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,might set the stage \Nfor a pendular backlash,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:59.46,0:11:01.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you can imagine the same sort of data
Dialogue: 0,0:11:01.46,0:11:03.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being used for the opposite argument:
Dialogue: 0,0:11:03.60,0:11:05.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if someone's brain is broken
Dialogue: 0,0:11:05.29,0:11:07.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or if their brain determines \Nthat they're a criminal,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:07.57,0:11:09.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,why not lock them up for longer?
Dialogue: 0,0:11:09.44,0:11:11.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I think we have to be careful \Nabout these questions.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:11.73,0:11:13.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are a lot of questions \Nthat are worth asking
Dialogue: 0,0:11:13.32,0:11:14.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the US punishment system.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:14.76,0:11:16.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My point is not to make a political point,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:16.89,0:11:19.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but just whether we're interested in
Dialogue: 0,0:11:19.89,0:11:23.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether the US legal system \Nis punishing people the right way,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:23.03,0:11:25.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if our penal system \Nis accomplishing the goals
Dialogue: 0,0:11:25.31,0:11:27.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it's set out to accomplish.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:27.18,0:11:29.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These are questions worth asking.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:29.05,0:11:31.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we don't need to wait \Nfor neuroscience to tell us the answers.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:31.86,0:11:34.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We don't need to hitch \Nour arguments on to neuroscience.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:34.46,0:11:36.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's my talk. Thanks very much.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:36.37,0:11:39.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Applause)