0:00:00.000,0:00:18.300
Herald: So the first speaker for this[br]conference is lizvlx. And she runs
0:00:18.300,0:00:23.140
ubermorgen.com and she is really[br]interested in software art, photography
0:00:23.140,0:00:33.660
and net art. And if you heard about Vote-[br]Auction that was her. This talk will be
0:00:33.660,0:00:41.320
about anti terrorist laws implications on[br]free thinking and art. Thank you very much
0:00:41.320,0:00:47.829
liz.[br]applause
0:00:47.829,0:00:55.260
lizvlx: Well hello, sorry that took a[br]little bit. I'm using the wrong software
0:00:55.260,0:01:01.609
apparently, its not Microsoft so I'm[br]really sorry. "Do you think that's funny"
0:01:01.609,0:01:06.100
that's the title of this talk because this[br]was a question we got asked quite a few
0:01:06.100,0:01:12.730
years ago by a reporter wanting to discuss[br]a project that we did and I thought it was
0:01:12.730,0:01:17.610
the stupidest question I have ever been[br]asked and I have loved it ever since
0:01:17.610,0:01:23.450
because obviously this shit is not funny[br]at all. So, yeah. Because it's about art-
0:01:23.450,0:01:29.830
practice under anti-terror laws. I'm not[br]going to give this theoretical talk now,
0:01:29.830,0:01:39.870
so you're fine it's about practice. I'm[br]gonna show you a set of projects and focus on
0:01:39.870,0:01:44.760
kind of the implications of anti-terror[br]laws on the project, on the production of
0:01:44.760,0:01:48.920
the project most and foremost and also[br]some of the projects obviously have been
0:01:48.920,0:01:55.570
produced before all these crazy ass laws[br]have come into effect. So let's just get
0:01:55.570,0:02:04.430
started. And of course in the end I'll be[br]doing a Q&A. So a short introduction. So
0:02:04.430,0:02:08.950
for us, I mean when I'm talking us means[br]ubermorgen.com so that's me and my partner
0:02:08.950,0:02:18.510
Hans. So we started in the 90s and in the[br]90s it was really great, I really loved it
0:02:18.510,0:02:22.280
because there was nothing happening on the[br]net really except for the crazy boring
0:02:22.280,0:02:29.350
shit and we all thought it was so cool. It[br]was just really nerdy but nothing else.
0:02:29.350,0:02:36.920
Obviously I started working in net-art, in[br]1995 about. And that was a really great
0:02:36.920,0:02:43.120
time because nobody cared what you did on[br]the net, not because there was no audience
0:02:43.120,0:02:48.660
there was a huge audience. But there was[br]no question about, because you know the
0:02:48.660,0:02:53.560
net was still not a dot com rearm so it[br]was fine, you could just do whatever you
0:02:53.560,0:03:00.020
wanted to... There's a little footnote[br]there because we did get, you know, a few
0:03:00.020,0:03:05.190
problems but it was nothing major. Also[br]because there was no laws in place it
0:03:05.190,0:03:13.010
really had an effect onto like European[br]citizen being kinda hassled by the CIA,
0:03:13.010,0:03:18.400
basically local police didn't really want[br]to help out the CIA at the time, so we
0:03:18.400,0:03:29.160
were fine at the time. So in the early[br]2000s dot com had totally run over the net
0:03:29.160,0:03:38.500
which is fine obviously but not only and[br]we had to really get used to lots of
0:03:38.500,0:03:43.880
people bugging us for doing what we did.[br]But it was just small stuff as you can
0:03:43.880,0:03:51.060
see, and especially the lawyers letters.[br]These were always very creative and always
0:03:51.060,0:03:57.770
a good basis for a new project I think.[br]But also at the time there were all these
0:03:57.770,0:04:02.430
people coming at you for doing projects[br]and its not necessary that you call them
0:04:02.430,0:04:06.860
art projects it could be anything really,[br]that is not commercial. Were you just go
0:04:06.860,0:04:14.770
like why shouldn't I do it. But all these[br]things that got thrown at you, were always
0:04:14.770,0:04:20.220
really valuable pieces of information on[br]how the system works. And you could work
0:04:20.220,0:04:24.680
with that. And you could work your way[br]around it, you sometimes may pay a small
0:04:24.680,0:04:29.129
legal fine or whatever, but you would be[br]fine. Obviously that was not true for our
0:04:29.129,0:04:33.490
Vote-Auction project which cost us[br]enormous amounts of money, but it was
0:04:33.490,0:04:42.460
worth it. So in about 2006 to 2008 I kind[br]of noticed, I started doing a project back
0:04:42.460,0:04:49.919
then which was called super-enhanced and I[br]very much noticed that I was paying more
0:04:49.919,0:04:56.699
and more attention to laws that were in[br]place, not that I was thinking that if I
0:04:56.699,0:05:00.900
do this project now I would get into[br]trouble a, b, c and d but it was in the
0:05:00.900,0:05:05.360
back of my head. Which is not really[br]helping when you're trying to freely
0:05:05.360,0:05:16.719
create a new project or a thinking space,[br]you know? As it is now I feel that all
0:05:16.719,0:05:25.889
these anti-terror-laws totally make us[br]come into this kind of cluster where we
0:05:25.889,0:05:32.589
start self-censoring ourselves. Most of[br]all, you see that when you're on Facebook.
0:05:32.589,0:05:37.379
And don't tell me you're not on Facebook,[br]obviously it's a bullshit platform but
0:05:37.379,0:05:40.719
still its really interesting. The same is[br]true for twitter. I mean how many times
0:05:40.719,0:05:47.180
will you say fuck on either of them.[br]You're not going to post that one picture
0:05:47.180,0:05:52.289
of that naked butt or the bare-breasted[br]lady or whatever, because you're like "ok
0:05:52.289,0:05:54.749
I have been using this account for a[br]really long time, I don't want to get
0:05:54.749,0:06:01.819
turned off now, because I'm using imagery[br]now that might be not legal in the
0:06:01.819,0:06:08.400
Facebook kind of sense". But this self[br]censorship is going on in your head. And
0:06:08.400,0:06:13.000
it happens online. But as long as it[br]happens online it would be kind of fine,
0:06:13.000,0:06:19.729
you know it's just Facebook. But this[br]creeps into offline life as well. I'm very
0:06:19.729,0:06:22.809
sure and I have noticed that with lots of[br]people that the conversations you will
0:06:22.809,0:06:27.749
have in real life will mirror the ones you[br]have online. Because you're getting used
0:06:27.749,0:06:32.999
to this kind of speak, this Facebook speak[br]or twitter speak. And it just censors out
0:06:32.999,0:06:42.574
lots of stuff. Our strategies in working[br]are mostly like affirmative. We're not the
0:06:42.574,0:06:47.780
ones that use critical approaches, because[br]most of the time that's very boring. But
0:06:47.780,0:06:53.080
we rather use affirmative techniques and[br]the other one, but then we figured we need
0:06:53.080,0:06:58.220
to come up with a new strategy. And that's[br]when we started to do secret projects,
0:06:58.220,0:07:01.419
because I was just getting really sick of[br]having this thought in my head all the
0:07:01.419,0:07:05.830
time of self-censorship and whatever. So[br]we just started developing projects
0:07:05.830,0:07:12.409
anonymously. But we can't publish them[br]under our own name which is kind of a bug
0:07:12.409,0:07:19.569
but that's the way it is. That's enough[br]for a little theory in the beginning and I
0:07:19.569,0:07:25.969
want to show you a little video of a[br]project that we did a few years ago and we
0:07:25.969,0:07:29.439
did this project because this is like one[br]more thing i think it is really important.
0:07:29.439,0:07:34.120
This is new speak, we all hear it all the[br]time. Like yesterday I read something on
0:07:34.120,0:07:40.540
the news, it talked about a dark figure of[br]badgers in the forest. I figured, how can
0:07:40.540,0:07:45.389
there be a dark figure of badgers in the[br]forest? Are these illegal badgers? Are
0:07:45.389,0:07:50.750
these criminal badgers now? And what I[br]heard also a few years ago, it was
0:07:50.750,0:07:58.319
Russian... deep sea... spider crabs that[br]were moving into Finnish you know sea
0:07:58.319,0:08:02.460
space? And I figured you know, what they[br]don't have any identity on them or what...
0:08:02.460,0:08:07.030
what's the problem? you know this, but[br]this new speak i mean obviously that's a
0:08:07.030,0:08:10.859
lot true for you know all the enemy[br]combatant bullshit and so on. But this
0:08:10.859,0:08:18.400
newspeak, it's really interesting if you[br]listen to it and it's a real problem if
0:08:18.400,0:08:23.810
you just go along with it because it[br]alters your speech it alters your mind. So
0:08:23.810,0:08:35.550
we did this project on oil and it's all[br]about this. I hope this is not too loud.
0:08:35.550,0:10:04.810
music starts: Seven Nation Army by The[br]White Stripesapplause Where's my
0:10:04.810,0:10:15.199
presentation? This video was based on a[br]marketing campaign by Diesel, it was
0:10:15.199,0:10:22.360
called "Be Stupid". laughs I don't want[br]to add to that, but I'm sure some of you
0:10:22.360,0:10:26.870
people in here have bought a Diesel[br]product. So be proud of yourself you are
0:10:26.870,0:10:39.100
officially stupid. I was asked to also[br]present you know some projects that some
0:10:39.100,0:10:42.731
of you might like really know but some of[br]them might not to give you more of a
0:10:42.731,0:10:49.110
context of our work. So I'm going to[br]present Vote Auction. Vote Auction was a
0:10:49.110,0:10:57.279
project we did in 2000 and we usually[br]produce seals for our projects, not logos
0:10:57.279,0:11:02.330
because we're surely not dot com. If we're[br]anything we're an authority, so we need a
0:11:02.330,0:11:10.339
seal, right? That gives you authority.[br]And, wait I need that. So it was in 2000,
0:11:10.339,0:11:15.970
it was a platform for buying and selling[br]you know votes for the presidential
0:11:15.970,0:11:22.509
election in 2000. Gore, yeah Gore against[br]Bush. You know the one that Bush didn't
0:11:22.509,0:11:30.110
win but took home anyways. You're laughing[br]it's sad isn't it, but then maybe I mean
0:11:30.110,0:11:37.500
so much good came out of it, so we should[br]be happy. It'd be a lot colder probably if
0:11:37.500,0:11:43.009
Gore had one, right? He's all into the[br]climate shit and so on. So that was the
0:11:43.009,0:11:50.260
website, we originally got it from this[br]American called James Baumgartner who was
0:11:50.260,0:11:56.410
an art student in the states, and he[br]started doing this as a thesis project.
0:11:56.410,0:12:00.899
But he got you know contacted by the FBI[br]and such pretty early on and he didn't
0:12:00.899,0:12:08.440
want to pursue the idea any more. And Art[br]Mark who is now Yesman by now and sucks
0:12:08.440,0:12:14.689
real bad now but was really good then um[br]brought him over to us and we took over
0:12:14.689,0:12:20.519
and made it a bit bigger I guess. And yeah[br]well basically you could just you know
0:12:20.519,0:12:29.129
sign up as a voter and just put your vote[br]on sale and as one would be interested in
0:12:29.129,0:12:32.610
buying a vote you'd only be able to buy[br]the votes from a you know from a whole
0:12:32.610,0:12:38.340
state to make it more easy. And the prices[br]of votes in different states varied a lot
0:12:38.340,0:12:42.350
obviously, we had enormous amounts of[br]subscribers. I don't know precisely
0:12:42.350,0:12:48.589
because we had a randomizing engine in the[br]back obviously. And um we got into serious
0:12:48.589,0:12:56.149
trouble obviously with this project with[br]any kind of governmental agency. Any OGA
0:12:56.149,0:13:00.910
in the states. And always made special[br]little websites for them with, you know
0:13:00.910,0:13:08.829
just IP filtering and they get their own[br]websites and laughter I remember also
0:13:08.829,0:13:13.330
the Germans were in there as well, I[br]remember Karlsruhe always contacted us on
0:13:13.330,0:13:19.310
I mean the server on a Wednesday at about[br]11. And always searched through the same
0:13:19.310,0:13:24.519
pages and it was really easy then I just,[br]you could just give them something they
0:13:24.519,0:13:30.160
really liked as a website and that's just[br]some DOS software that would download in
0:13:30.160,0:13:35.259
the background. And you know stuff like[br]that that really worked fine. I'm gonna
0:13:35.259,0:13:40.410
show you a little video again, because we[br]got like this feature on CNN for the
0:13:40.410,0:13:48.870
project, this is really bad quality[br]because it's from TV. I'm so sorry.
0:13:48.870,0:13:57.519
TV intro music[br]TV presenter: In just two weeks the
0:13:57.519,0:14:01.150
citizens of the United States will elect[br]their next commander-in-chief. But could
0:14:01.150,0:14:05.810
that decision be rerouted over the[br]internet? A website engineered halfway
0:14:05.810,0:14:10.580
around the world is offering to literally[br]buy your vote! Today on Burden of Proof:
0:14:10.580,0:14:13.660
Bidding for ballots. Democracy on the[br]block.
0:14:13.660,0:14:19.260
announcer: This is Burden of Proof.[br]lizvlx: Just need to interrupt here a few
0:14:19.260,0:14:24.670
times. So this was on prime time US CNN.[br]This was right in the midst of the
0:14:24.670,0:14:29.469
elections and we were really lucky that we[br]got so much news coverage. This was not
0:14:29.469,0:14:33.550
because we are so awesome and doing[br]projects, this was because we just touched
0:14:33.550,0:14:37.460
a topic that lots of journalists really[br]wanted to talk about, but they didn't have
0:14:37.460,0:14:41.060
a specific issue. But if you present them[br]with a specific issue they have something
0:14:41.060,0:14:47.319
to talk about. So they did. We got about[br]like I don't know how many people we
0:14:47.319,0:14:51.990
reached about like 200 to 400 million[br]people. This was like really all over the
0:14:51.990,0:14:56.230
place from, I don't know, you know, they[br]even discussed it in Russia in their
0:14:56.230,0:15:04.779
parliament and so on. And we got our you[br]know service hacked, and yeah Chan and
0:15:04.779,0:15:10.879
Reno who was then you know somebody was on[br]our... And we got sued by so many people
0:15:10.879,0:15:16.040
for either, you know, false promise,[br]consumerism laws, or you know election
0:15:16.040,0:15:23.920
fraud. I need to point out that obviously[br]it's perfectly legal to sell American
0:15:23.920,0:15:34.639
votes in Europe.[br]laughter and applause
0:15:34.639,0:15:42.190
But this is also why vote auction is a big[br]case in the - for lawyers all over the
0:15:42.190,0:15:46.270
place. This was one of the first cases[br]where people really noticed: Oh internet
0:15:46.270,0:15:52.160
and national law is just really bad[br]together, just don't mix, you know. And
0:15:52.160,0:15:58.970
you know, they served us court papers onto[br]our Nokia communicators. Like faxes, like
0:15:58.970,0:16:04.379
30 pages, which obviously doesn't fit on a[br]communicator. Or on the phone, you know. I
0:16:04.379,0:16:10.300
need to serve this to you which is an- it[br]was ridiculous. But still, I mean they
0:16:10.300,0:16:15.130
couldn't shut us down because we just had,[br]we obviously we were aware that if we kept
0:16:15.130,0:16:19.980
on doing this project we would get you[br]know, people and authority would be
0:16:19.980,0:16:23.749
getting more and more interested in us. So[br]we had just this you know- we bought new
0:16:23.749,0:16:27.790
domains because it turned up the one[br]domain, so we put in the new domain which
0:16:27.790,0:16:31.589
gives you a new news story. So that was[br]fine, in the end we were running on an IP
0:16:31.589,0:16:35.949
address but it was all out there so it was[br]fine because we had the CNN coverage so
0:16:35.949,0:16:43.260
there was no problem. So we had no terror[br]laws at the time so we were no terrorists,
0:16:43.260,0:16:49.019
we're just doing voter fraud, right? So[br]this is, I mean we're obviously not doing
0:16:49.019,0:16:52.509
it because we're just providing a[br]platform, I'm not responsible for any
0:16:52.509,0:16:57.300
user. That's what dot coms is. You know[br]and you got to bring democracy and
0:16:57.300,0:17:08.579
capitalism closer together, that's what we[br]were saying. Yeah wait, there I just see
0:17:08.579,0:17:14.120
where is, where's where is he... he yeah[br]that's him. That was one of our first
0:17:14.120,0:17:17.970
providers. TV presenter: Which along with[br]voteauction.com was named as a defendant
0:17:17.970,0:17:22.030
in a lawsuit in Chicago. In Los Angeles[br]we're joined by internet law professor
0:17:22.030,0:17:24.960
Stuart Beagle TV presenter 2: And in[br]Sacramento, California we're joined by...
0:17:24.960,0:17:26.760
lizvlx: He is an asshole.[br]TV presenter 2: William Woods, chief
0:17:26.760,0:17:30.510
counsel to the California secretary of[br]state, where I'm from. And here in
0:17:30.510,0:17:33.170
Washington, Melissa Stratton,[br]constitutional law expert.
0:17:33.170,0:17:39.030
lizvlx: That's my favorite picture. I mean[br]look at that, I mean for me that project
0:17:39.030,0:17:44.220
is also a very complicated way to produce[br]like a video art. You do this whole
0:17:44.220,0:17:56.791
project and then it gets filmed by CNN,[br]right? laughter and applause If you want
0:17:56.791,0:18:03.840
to see more of the video, pretty much all[br]the videos are available on vimeo. If you
0:18:03.840,0:18:08.120
go, you know look for the ubermorgen[br]channel. So because they'll go on for way
0:18:08.120,0:18:16.850
too long because it's 45 minutes and we[br]don't have that much time. Do dee do de
0:18:16.850,0:18:35.540
doo, more screenshots of the guys. Yeah[br]that's the lawsuits. laughter It's a
0:18:35.540,0:18:39.530
paper- I started doing paper sculptures[br]then at the time because what are you
0:18:39.530,0:18:44.520
supposed to do with it, right? And um,[br]it's very expensive you know. This is from
0:18:44.520,0:18:50.270
a show we just did at carol fletcher[br]gallery in you know London. You know,
0:18:50.270,0:18:56.380
Oxford Circus, high scale, good shit. But[br]obviously it's not so much fun at the time
0:18:56.380,0:19:00.250
sometimes. But because I come from a[br]lawyer's family I cannot be bothered
0:19:00.250,0:19:07.400
really. laughter[br]Now on to something completely different.
0:19:07.400,0:19:14.550
This is EKMRZ trilogy, it obviously means[br]e-commerce. I don't like vowels
0:19:14.550,0:19:21.630
apparently. And these are three projects.[br]It's called Google Will Eat Itself, Amazon
0:19:21.630,0:19:29.090
Noir, and The Sound of Ebay. Google Will[br]Eat Itself, maybe some of you know. That's
0:19:29.090,0:19:36.930
the seal again. Google release itself is[br]just a very easy scheme for, I don't know
0:19:36.930,0:19:44.210
a problematic network maybe. It's just,[br]it's all about, we just bought into we
0:19:44.210,0:19:48.790
just participated in the google ads[br]program and made money with that, and with
0:19:48.790,0:19:55.380
the money we made we bought Google shares.[br]Hence Google Will Eat Itself, right? And
0:19:55.380,0:19:59.760
we didn't do it on a huge big scale,[br]because we were not so interested in that
0:19:59.760,0:20:05.060
any more after doing stuff like vote[br]auction. So we just did this more as a
0:20:05.060,0:20:09.490
conceptual piece. I think at the scale[br]that we did it in uh it would have taken
0:20:09.490,0:20:15.550
us like something like 300 million years[br]to buy the whole of Google. But then it
0:20:15.550,0:20:22.490
gets, maybe it'll get like real cheap in[br]the meantime. So who knows, yeah? For this
0:20:22.490,0:20:28.960
project also still no terror laws, then[br]that it wouldn't really be covered by that
0:20:28.960,0:20:33.560
anyways. But of course nasty letters from[br]Google, and we got you know blocked on
0:20:33.560,0:20:39.790
Google which is great, you know? I once[br]got disqualified from a conference, that
0:20:39.790,0:20:45.510
was awesome. And then you know that one I[br]really like. But if you get a lawyer from
0:20:45.510,0:20:48.900
Google, a lawyer's letter from Google[br]that's fine because we all know you can't
0:20:48.900,0:20:53.591
talk to google, right? There's no phone[br]number, you know? You can have, you can
0:20:53.591,0:20:58.630
know someone who works at google. But[br]officially you can't talk to them. So
0:20:58.630,0:21:02.460
there's nothing they can do to you really[br]because they can only send letters, but
0:21:02.460,0:21:07.391
not react again because they don't want to[br]be bothered. So that's fine, so you can
0:21:07.391,0:21:13.180
just make a new story out of it. But we[br]closed the project. We made about I think
0:21:13.180,0:21:18.490
like 400˙000€ and it's still sitting[br]there. It's in a kind of a fund thing and
0:21:18.490,0:21:23.470
it's Google to the people. But it's not[br]doing anything, because money shouldn't be
0:21:23.470,0:21:30.130
doing anything. The next one was Amazon[br]Noir which was basically just using the
0:21:30.130,0:21:35.120
look inside the book function of Amazon to[br]download the whole books. Just search for
0:21:35.120,0:21:39.900
lots of terms and then recombine the book.[br]They look quite measly afterwards but it's
0:21:39.900,0:21:48.620
all about the content, who cares? And that[br]project got kind of interpreted as if we
0:21:48.620,0:21:55.990
were focusing on free books and all that[br]and information for all and we're not
0:21:55.990,0:22:01.100
interested in, we're not activists. I'm[br]maybe an actionist but I'm not an
0:22:01.100,0:22:04.750
activist. So I don't have a political[br]agenda. I don't say that this is good or
0:22:04.750,0:22:11.140
this is bad. I just might find some things[br]interesting. And so we sold the software
0:22:11.140,0:22:14.930
to Amazon because they didn't like it[br]obviously. So we sold this software to
0:22:14.930,0:22:24.791
Amazon in the end and made some money with[br]that. laughter and applause
0:22:24.791,0:22:30.550
And last one of that trilogy is called The[br]Sound of Ebay, and I just really wanted to
0:22:30.550,0:22:36.480
do a project with teletext imagery because[br]teletext is just so great. And my mom
0:22:36.480,0:22:42.590
still uses it and. But then my mom used to[br]be a programmer so that's, I guess that
0:22:42.590,0:22:49.200
explains it. So basically it just, this is[br]a lyrical project. It makes the music with
0:22:49.200,0:22:53.510
your user data. And I'm not gonna play the[br]music, but I'm gonna show the images
0:22:53.510,0:22:59.450
because i love them so much. I mean it's[br]just the best parts of teletext obviously,
0:22:59.450,0:23:03.890
I got there's like this, there's one[br]person who won't talk to me anymore after
0:23:03.890,0:23:10.690
I've done that because she thinks it's[br]porn. laughter
0:23:10.690,0:23:16.320
It's really pixels I mean come on. If you[br]see porn in this shit you're sick. I mean
0:23:16.320,0:23:28.620
seriously.[br]laughter and applause
0:23:28.620,0:23:32.790
I'm gonna jump through that because[br]there's not enough time I think. Oh maybe,
0:23:32.790,0:23:40.450
no we got... There's another set of[br]projects I... we did. This is actually the
0:23:40.450,0:23:44.330
ones I like doing most because this is[br]where I get to do some coding. I love
0:23:44.330,0:23:52.290
doing coding in Perl and I will never code[br]in anything else I think. And we don't
0:23:52.290,0:24:01.770
need that ruby shit. And basically this is[br]also yeah this is the... from IP-NIC. We
0:24:01.770,0:24:05.160
learned, with vote auction we learned how[br]important the seal is, right? Because we
0:24:05.160,0:24:09.910
got all these legal letters with lots of[br]seals right? Texas, Internet Attorney, and
0:24:09.910,0:24:14.440
shit like that. And so we got our own seal[br]with the Internet Partnership for No
0:24:14.440,0:24:22.140
Internet Content. Also sometimes we will[br]get asked by you know, different...
0:24:22.140,0:24:26.130
entities, companies and whatever like you[br]know you do fake banners and shit like
0:24:26.130,0:24:31.690
that and then wanna. They want you to take it[br]offline and usually when you talk to big
0:24:31.690,0:24:37.770
companies and you want them to do[br]something they tell you: Um I'm not sure,
0:24:37.770,0:24:41.640
I'm not the right person to talk to. They[br]just send you to someone else and never
0:24:41.640,0:24:46.580
get solved. So we just mirrored that. And[br]so whenever someone asks us to take some
0:24:46.580,0:24:51.170
information off our servers, I say you[br]know, you need to speak to a different
0:24:51.170,0:24:58.960
department. And because that's real[br]complicated I made this form. And it's the
0:24:58.960,0:25:03.470
universal content and/or domain removal[br]form. It's very complicated, this was not
0:25:03.470,0:25:06.280
what it was in the beginning. And it was[br]you know it's like when you transfer a
0:25:06.280,0:25:11.730
domain. It's hard, right? You need to sign[br]all that and fax it and not with all of
0:25:11.730,0:25:17.560
them, but some of them. And you just need[br]to put lots of bureaucratic barriers in
0:25:17.560,0:25:21.770
there, right? You still got to think you[br]really want to get the shit solved, right?
0:25:21.770,0:25:25.470
You do. But there's just so much paperwork[br]that you got to fill out. Not you but the
0:25:25.470,0:25:30.510
other people who want to get the stuff[br]offline. And all the departments... The
0:25:30.510,0:25:36.280
shit never gets solved. And then I coded[br]it and basically it just works like that
0:25:36.280,0:25:45.270
you can just put in any domain and it just[br]creates a legal document and that you it's
0:25:45.270,0:25:52.330
fine you know we have so many the wording[br]is just fine. And like a preliminary, you
0:25:52.330,0:25:56.250
know injunction or whatever and then you[br]just send it out. We didn't automize it,
0:25:56.250,0:25:59.300
because we didn't want to be the ones to[br]blame in the end again. We figured the
0:25:59.300,0:26:02.200
user can send it out by themselves, you[br]know? We're not going to be the clowns,
0:26:02.200,0:26:08.330
yeah? And take on your own responsibility,[br]right? And you just send it out, and if
0:26:08.330,0:26:14.380
you have a legal document where it says[br]you know this domain I don't know i'm so
0:26:14.380,0:26:18.030
cool dot com is supposed to be taken[br]offline, because they're engaging in child
0:26:18.030,0:26:23.960
pornography. I guess lots of providers[br]will take it offline, in the beginning not
0:26:23.960,0:26:31.650
to do anything wrong. So this worked[br]really well and it's... again I think it's
0:26:31.650,0:26:36.250
important to use stuff that comes back to[br]you. In form of legal papers in this
0:26:36.250,0:26:41.560
context, to make something else out of it.[br]And also it just cuts out the middleman
0:26:41.560,0:26:44.220
again. You don't need a lawyer, you don't[br]need a court, you just need your own court
0:26:44.220,0:26:53.960
papers and that's fine. The next one I did[br]was the Bank Statement Generator. It's a
0:26:53.960,0:26:59.350
weird account statement, and it's a[br]generator that works like that, you just
0:26:59.350,0:27:04.490
enter a starting figure and you pretty[br]much and you enter some other shit and
0:27:04.490,0:27:10.300
your name and blah and so on. And then you[br]enter how you want to feel when you get
0:27:10.300,0:27:19.020
the statement. You know, pretty much[br]everyone has the same deductions right?
0:27:19.020,0:27:24.830
You go to H&M and you do some Amazon and[br]so on. And yeah I don't think you can ever
0:27:24.830,0:27:30.340
really get high numbers but you know you[br]just from suicidal to total mania that's
0:27:30.340,0:27:37.140
what you can kind of decide for yourself,[br]how you want to feel. I got that because
0:27:37.140,0:27:40.260
we were really broke at the time and I[br]remember I was sitting at home I got open
0:27:40.260,0:27:44.210
letters and one letter from the bank and[br]it said like oh you're in debt. And I felt
0:27:44.210,0:27:50.250
really bad. And then I figured why am I[br]feeling bad because of ink on paper? This
0:27:50.250,0:27:56.990
is really crazy, and it's um it's so this[br]is always what I say: This is just pixels
0:27:56.990,0:28:01.000
on screen and the other one's just ink on[br]paper. Especially because we're not
0:28:01.000,0:28:05.540
talking about personal letters, we're[br]talking about letters, they get sent out
0:28:05.540,0:28:10.300
by servers that are signed by people. You[br]can't talk to a person about them. So
0:28:10.300,0:28:14.200
they're not a letter, that's not what[br]constitutes a letter. This is fucking
0:28:14.200,0:28:20.400
newspeak. So if you react to anything that[br]gets sent to you by a server with an
0:28:20.400,0:28:27.480
emotional reaction, something's wrong with[br]you, you know?
0:28:27.480,0:28:33.870
applause[br]So this is, I put this in here because my
0:28:33.870,0:28:40.670
daughter really really loves it. It's[br]Clickistan. Clickistan, I put it also, put
0:28:40.670,0:28:45.350
it in there because we developed this[br]project for the Whitney Museum of American
0:28:45.350,0:28:52.950
Art. And it was a bit of a hassle, it's[br]Clickistan so it's like a Javascript click
0:28:52.950,0:29:00.140
game. And I just used lots of stuff that I[br]already had and you know Javascripted it
0:29:00.140,0:29:06.310
around, it's all weird and stuff. But we[br]couldn't release it right away because
0:29:06.310,0:29:13.180
they were concerned about the wording. And[br]they were concerned about the words. I
0:29:13.180,0:29:18.990
couldn't use the words muslim,[br]fundamentalist, and terror. And I had not,
0:29:18.990,0:29:24.760
I had not put them in any special you know[br]context, these words. Like, there was this
0:29:24.760,0:29:32.170
one screen where it said are you allergic[br]vegan muslim or i don't know whatever. And
0:29:32.170,0:29:36.610
you just, and it's clearly not a political[br]project but there was no way they would
0:29:36.610,0:29:41.430
release the project with these words in[br]it. So I figured okay I don't... I'm
0:29:41.430,0:29:46.610
really bad with getting censored, so[br]that's not cool. So I proposed to them, if
0:29:46.610,0:29:51.280
it were okay with them if we just took[br]these words out and instead put in the
0:29:51.280,0:29:57.010
word you know variations of the word[br]censor. And they were like oh that's fine.
0:29:57.010,0:30:00.370
laughter[br]I thought "no not really, but I'll go
0:30:00.370,0:30:06.130
ahead." So that's yeah it was fucking[br]crazy. I'll show you the video, it's an
0:30:06.130,0:30:11.570
online game but you're not gonna play it[br]now. But you can watch the video.
0:30:11.570,0:33:14.220
repeated mouse clicks[br]chiptune music
0:33:14.220,0:33:37.010
applause[br]Okay. Well this is like a small project we
0:33:37.010,0:33:45.590
did, I don't know it feels like at least[br]10 years ago. And this is what we call a
0:33:45.590,0:33:54.590
web painting. Basically, I mean you can[br]read a bit for yourself.
0:33:54.590,0:34:05.890
laughter and applause[br]We just took the text and pretty much
0:34:05.890,0:34:11.620
everything else from a website called Iris[br]scan obviously. And just, just exchanged
0:34:11.620,0:34:20.552
the words, to make the content and the[br]message a bit more clear I guess. We have
0:34:20.552,0:34:27.010
not used this in a performative way yet,[br]but if we could ever find a pardon to do
0:34:27.010,0:34:35.240
that I would gladly set it up on, you know[br]I don't know, a conference you know? An
0:34:35.240,0:34:39.930
airport? And just see you know if people[br]are gonna participate. You know it's just
0:34:39.930,0:34:50.270
a small moment. You can go to your own[br]private room if you want to. By the way
0:34:50.270,0:34:57.059
that's what you call uh affirmative[br]approach, right? Versus critical... And
0:34:57.059,0:35:03.490
Alanohof, the alano ranch. That's... this[br]is this really small project we did a few
0:35:03.490,0:35:13.320
years ago. It's just a regular fake site,[br]right? And it's about this fake farm into
0:35:13.320,0:35:25.200
role that produces organic meat from these[br]hounds. It's all very well and we just
0:35:25.200,0:35:32.136
produced it for this small you know[br]cultural association, a club in Tirol. And
0:35:32.136,0:35:35.920
she said can you do something that will[br]you know give us our you know a title page
0:35:35.920,0:35:45.360
on our you know tyrolean newspaper? And I[br]mean that's, it's easy it's fun. But it's
0:35:45.360,0:35:49.140
really just a fun project, right? We got[br]into so much trouble because of this
0:35:49.140,0:35:52.970
project.[br]applause
0:35:52.970,0:35:57.530
We have you know like we had five[br]different times and you were there right
0:35:57.530,0:36:01.970
we had police standing in front of our[br]doors at home right? It's like Sunday
0:36:01.970,0:36:07.320
evening, it's Sunday evening I'm by myself[br]because my partner just went to Sofia for
0:36:07.320,0:36:13.250
whatever he always does there. And you[br]know, knock on the door and it's these two
0:36:13.250,0:36:17.020
police guys they're like oh mumbles I[br]like look at them, go like you're not here
0:36:17.020,0:36:21.282
for Alano, are you? And they're like:[br]yeah. And I'm like, what the hell? You
0:36:21.282,0:36:25.430
know it's been like, four years since we[br]did the project and they're still coming.
0:36:25.430,0:36:32.350
I don't know it's because of the dogs you[br]know don't do anything. It's not a cat,
0:36:32.350,0:36:41.941
you know? We know don't... laughter and[br]applause I don't understand that, don't
0:36:41.941,0:36:46.440
say anything mean about cats on the[br]internet, yeah. laughter We all bow our
0:36:46.440,0:36:51.880
heads to the gods, right? But now[br]basically it was also a newspaper that got
0:36:51.880,0:37:00.600
behind it and there was some you know dog[br]hating forum that totally loved the site.
0:37:00.600,0:37:05.590
But I mean seriously, I mean they made[br]police people drive to the About address
0:37:05.590,0:37:11.050
we put on the on the website. And drive[br]there and there was like this local police
0:37:11.050,0:37:15.510
guy who knew up front that there was no[br]farm there. And we read all the card
0:37:15.510,0:37:19.370
papers and so on it says like oh i went[br]there and there's no farm and no one
0:37:19.370,0:37:28.210
around knows it. We had... but the thing[br]was we had to pay money for that because
0:37:28.210,0:37:36.530
there was no imprint on the website in the[br]beginning. And this is actually you
0:37:36.530,0:37:41.820
know... this was not a problem early on[br]because basically this means I mean this
0:37:41.820,0:37:45.780
is a, it's a fake site, you know? If[br]police contact you and you're like no
0:37:45.780,0:37:48.980
we're artists, this is a fake side they're[br]like fine. And the first two police people
0:37:48.980,0:37:51.750
that contacted us, they were also okay[br]that's fine yeah. Actually it's
0:37:51.750,0:37:59.010
interesting kind of a book and so on. But[br]you know laws change over time. And now,
0:37:59.010,0:38:02.370
you know they really made us put an[br]imprint in there, otherwise you know we
0:38:02.370,0:38:05.540
could have you know paid as much as[br]20˙000€. And they were like if you put the
0:38:05.540,0:38:10.381
imprint in now, you only pay like 200. And[br]we're like we're not paying 20˙000€ for a
0:38:10.381,0:38:16.040
freaking dog, obviously not. For you know[br]we paid more than 20˙000€ for you know
0:38:16.040,0:38:20.930
doing the whole vote auction bullshit, but[br]not for a dog, you know? So that's all you
0:38:20.930,0:38:28.430
know, judicial stuff you know? See? It's a[br]yeah "Tötung von gesunden Hunden", killing
0:38:28.430,0:38:36.260
you know healthy dogs. We should have put[br]up that we're only killing sick dogs.
0:38:36.260,0:38:46.840
laughter Mea culpa, yeah. So now on to[br]something a lot more serious. This is a
0:38:46.840,0:38:51.220
project that's very close to my heart.[br]It's called Superenhanced. And started
0:38:51.220,0:38:55.970
doing this in about 2006 to 2008. And[br]actually I want to, this is important for
0:38:55.970,0:38:59.230
me for various reasons. Also because of[br]the talk that's going on right now
0:38:59.230,0:39:04.861
obviously all the time. We're all being[br]listened to and so on and I don't
0:39:04.861,0:39:10.630
understand how anyone could not have known[br]that. I seriously don't. Because we all
0:39:10.630,0:39:14.630
know that anything that's technically[br]possible will be done. We know that from
0:39:14.630,0:39:19.390
ourselves, even if it's only very often[br]only very little because we're technical
0:39:19.390,0:39:27.740
incapable, yeah? But there was something[br]else on the agenda and that was you know
0:39:27.740,0:39:35.320
the issues of enhanced interrogation,[br]Torture Taxis, super max prisons in the
0:39:35.320,0:39:41.500
states. And I personally don't really[br]understand, I mean I do understand, but I
0:39:41.500,0:39:46.990
still don't understand why there's this[br]huge uproar now about you know the NSA
0:39:46.990,0:39:51.920
bullshit, but there was never any of that[br]big upper already really got to people
0:39:51.920,0:39:57.700
being imprisoned. And this is also you[br]know, this is where real terror laws
0:39:57.700,0:40:06.890
started happening, right? And this is and,[br]no nothing. I didn't hear anything and we
0:40:06.890,0:40:12.280
did this project. And one part of the[br]project is a this is just image material
0:40:12.280,0:40:18.920
from our research. I did like half a year[br]of research on this project. And then I
0:40:18.920,0:40:25.410
programmed the Superenhanced generator[br]together with a friend of mine. And it's
0:40:25.410,0:40:29.790
basically an interrogation software.[br]Because it's always the problem in
0:40:29.790,0:40:36.790
interrogations who's to fucking blame if[br]anything goes wrong? So we did a software,
0:40:36.790,0:40:40.220
so the software is to blame, right? So you[br]can only follow your orders, and
0:40:40.220,0:40:49.930
everything it's fine. So basically it just[br]runs you through and if you don't answer
0:40:49.930,0:40:59.770
properly you get into trouble. So that's[br]not fun, I know, I'm so sorry. We used
0:40:59.770,0:41:07.220
this in a few performances, in Palestine I[br]think. Yeah that's right we went to Israel
0:41:07.220,0:41:11.280
and went to Palestine and I really gotta[br]say the one, the performance in Israel
0:41:11.280,0:41:18.190
didn't work out. Because the people we got[br]as volunteers, they just totally fucking
0:41:18.190,0:41:21.360
chickened out. I mean it was really just[br]like you know, what do you do in the
0:41:21.360,0:41:26.490
beginning? Like you throw a bit of water[br]into people's faces or whatever? As an
0:41:26.490,0:41:29.570
enhancement rate and they're just[br]chickened out. Versus the people in
0:41:29.570,0:41:34.740
Ramallah they were fine because they were[br]all really experienced. laughter No
0:41:34.740,0:41:39.210
seriously there was a hundred percent of[br]all the people that were you know there
0:41:39.210,0:41:43.700
for our talk had experience in being[br]detained. I mean really detained, not
0:41:43.700,0:41:50.380
just, you know? And about 50% had been[br]more than once. So this is the system
0:41:50.380,0:42:03.400
graph of the generator. And more images,[br]sorry to spoil your party. And, wait...
0:42:03.400,0:42:09.619
We're looking for a specific image. Oh[br]that's, if you want to read a good book
0:42:09.619,0:42:17.240
this is really close to my heart now. Read[br]this book by Murad Kurnaz. Just read it.
0:42:17.240,0:42:22.310
It might not be a nice christmas present[br]but use it for easter time somebody got
0:42:22.310,0:42:33.460
nailed on a cross there. so that's fine[br]applause We worked together with this
0:42:33.460,0:42:39.030
guy, Chris Arendt who was a guard in[br]Guantanamo. And he lived with us for two
0:42:39.030,0:42:43.370
months. You know, so we could do more[br]research and talk and block. Get the
0:42:43.370,0:42:49.540
hands-on approach, that's what we like.[br]And he's kind of okay now. He was in a
0:42:49.540,0:42:54.730
really bad state then. But I don't feel[br]bad for him because I feel bad for the
0:42:54.730,0:43:00.330
victim not for the perpetrator. I'm sorry[br]Chris, he knows that. That's a set of
0:43:00.330,0:43:11.050
photographs we did with our kids. People[br]find it offensive. Billy always laughs
0:43:11.050,0:43:20.020
about it, right? Stop laughing Billy.[br]That's her little sister Lola. That's, we
0:43:20.020,0:43:28.230
don't need that. That's a grown-up person.[br]And that's a funny thing too. I mean,
0:43:28.230,0:43:34.310
these pictures I found on the back up of[br]my iPhone and I had never seen those
0:43:34.310,0:43:39.070
pictures before. I had not, I mean I know[br]my research, I had not seen those pictures
0:43:39.070,0:43:44.000
before. And when I had to you know sift[br]through my backup I found all these
0:43:44.000,0:43:49.790
pictures of Guantanamo courtrooms. I found[br]that really strange, but it was very you
0:43:49.790,0:43:56.880
know helpful. So this is, there's more to[br]show obviously, but there's not so much
0:43:56.880,0:44:04.060
time. There's just like one thing I want[br]to say before we kind of end this and
0:44:04.060,0:44:10.750
it's: If we always talk about these issues[br]now of privacy and so on, please bear in
0:44:10.750,0:44:16.060
mind that this is a first world problem.[br]The southern hemisphere does not suffer
0:44:16.060,0:44:20.540
from you know being spied on all the time.[br]They suffer from not getting any fucking
0:44:20.540,0:44:28.620
attention. So just bear that in mind, that[br]it's kind of a luxury problem that needs
0:44:28.620,0:44:38.150
to be discussed obviously. Second forget[br]crypto because crypto is elitist. I'm not
0:44:38.150,0:44:42.480
saying don't do it at all obviously, it's[br]something that we all want us to pursue.
0:44:42.480,0:44:45.990
But if you try to find a solution for the[br]situation now it's not going to be crypto
0:44:45.990,0:44:55.500
because nobody can fucking use it.[br]inaudible interjection Okay? And then,
0:44:55.500,0:45:00.860
to all these engineers of the internet,[br]all the sysadmins with so much power and
0:45:00.860,0:45:04.990
lots of, you know, intelligence very[br]often, lots of brain, but so little
0:45:04.990,0:45:13.270
education. So you know, so little amount[br]of books have you ever read. So little
0:45:13.270,0:45:18.520
knowledge and so much responsibility.[br]Please, read a book. Read a motherfucking
0:45:18.520,0:45:29.810
book. I just applause Maybe not the[br]"Allgemeinbildung for dummies" that I just
0:45:29.810,0:45:37.950
saw on the train last week, but something[br]like that, okay? We need to close now, I
0:45:37.950,0:45:43.000
mean we were running a bit late with[br]starting it, but how much more time do we
0:45:43.000,0:45:48.920
have? Yeah so um I'd rather stop now and[br]we have time for some Q&A, what do you
0:45:48.920,0:45:54.830
think about that? I'm not going to run a[br]vote on it.
0:45:54.830,0:46:05.220
Herald: Okay for any question there is...[br]just cue on the microphones in the room.
0:46:05.220,0:46:13.910
Question: Hi...?[br]lizvlx: Hi!
0:46:13.910,0:46:22.480
Q: Okay hi, you seem to like confrontation[br]so mine is what's your point?
0:46:22.480,0:46:27.830
applause[br]lizvlx: You just asked me again, do you
0:46:27.830,0:46:34.040
think that's funny? That's the same[br]question again. There's no point in a
0:46:34.040,0:46:37.990
confrontation. I'm not the confrontation[br]the fucking terror law is the
0:46:37.990,0:46:42.740
confrontation. I'm just mirroring that[br]shit. If you got a problem with that, then
0:46:42.740,0:46:46.950
you're not doing anything. And you don't[br]need to do anything i'm not telling you
0:46:46.950,0:46:51.630
what to do what, not at all you know. I'm[br]just doing the stuff that I think makes my
0:46:51.630,0:46:56.280
life more enjoyable.[br]Herald: Number two.
0:46:56.280,0:47:04.090
Q: Hi, I wasn't going to say anything but[br]the last few words provoked me. On behalf
0:47:04.090,0:47:10.730
of people that I know who don't live in[br]the first world, surveillance is a
0:47:10.730,0:47:14.560
problem. And if you think that it isn't,[br]you're wrong. sporadic clapping
0:47:14.560,0:47:22.220
lizvlx: Well I spend lots of time in[br]Africa and Near East. Most of all in
0:47:22.220,0:47:27.390
Africa. And I know surveillance is not an[br]issue in a slum. It's just not, because
0:47:27.390,0:47:31.609
nobody even knows that you're alive. So[br]you cannot be surveilled. No, they really
0:47:31.609,0:47:38.770
have issues of visibility. And I know[br]intellectually, of course. And so on, yes
0:47:38.770,0:47:44.110
I know where you're coming from. But[br]still, I mean. I don't know how many times
0:47:44.110,0:47:49.240
you're in Africa, but last time I checked,[br]not really, no I.
0:47:49.240,0:47:54.100
Q: I don't work in Africa, I work in the[br]Americas, but um I think it's a good point
0:47:54.100,0:48:00.360
for a discussion but i don't think that[br]it's helpful to state to make a broad
0:48:00.360,0:48:06.750
statement like that in this kind of[br]environment where you have this stage. And
0:48:06.750,0:48:13.060
we certainly would really like to talk to[br]you more about that. Because it's not good
0:48:13.060,0:48:18.710
to say that. It's not like internet[br]surveillance is not necessarily a problem.
0:48:18.710,0:48:21.560
But surveillance is a problem. On the[br]street, surveillance is a problem, having
0:48:21.560,0:48:26.230
people outside of your house watching you[br]24 hours a day is a problem.
0:48:26.230,0:48:30.290
lizvlx: No we don't want to, that's not[br]what I mean, obviously. Surveillance it's
0:48:30.290,0:48:35.000
not a problem it's just ugly bullshit that[br]no one needs. It's just idiotic, you know?
0:48:35.000,0:48:40.130
It just makes sense and it no obviously.[br]But there is no street surveillance in
0:48:40.130,0:48:45.330
most of Africa, you know? So it's not it's[br]a different world there and I just want
0:48:45.330,0:48:47.560
you...[br]Q: Well not the first world is bigger than
0:48:47.560,0:48:49.180
Africa as well, you said the southern[br]hemisphere...
0:48:49.180,0:48:53.619
lizvlx: Well we yeah we I get to a point,[br]but I was making a different point.
0:48:53.619,0:48:56.600
Q: Okay.[br]Herald: Back to one.
0:48:56.600,0:48:59.600
Q: Hello? You talked about uh self-[br]censorship.
0:48:59.600,0:49:03.250
lizvlx: Yeah.[br]Q: Is there a connection to pure
0:49:03.250,0:49:09.120
reflection, and... between self-censorship[br]and reflection so what is reflection to
0:49:09.120,0:49:13.670
you, and what is self-censorship?[br]lizvlx: Well, especially when it comes to
0:49:13.670,0:49:18.380
Facebook you know, right when you type in[br]your message it already gets recorded.
0:49:18.380,0:49:23.970
Even if you delete it, right? So that's[br]right the case of you're just self-
0:49:23.970,0:49:30.369
reflecting. But they get it then you self-[br]censor yourself and then still... So it's
0:49:30.369,0:49:33.720
because it gets all very fuzzy I think.[br]And I think the fuzziness is kind of an
0:49:33.720,0:49:38.240
issue right there. Because if you just[br]censor yourself because you don't want to
0:49:38.240,0:49:42.140
say that that's fine. But if you don't[br]want to say it because of some other
0:49:42.140,0:49:48.570
implications that will happen that are[br]fucking crazy, then you have a real issue,
0:49:48.570,0:49:50.570
I think.[br]Q: Thank you.
0:49:50.570,0:49:52.800
lizvlx: welcome[br]Herald: Three now.
0:49:52.800,0:49:57.690
Q: Yeah um[br]lizvlx: hi:
0:49:57.690,0:50:02.160
Q: I see art as being something on the[br]fringe and I think that's what you're
0:50:02.160,0:50:07.130
doing. But I'm interested in what you,[br]what you think will happen when this will
0:50:07.130,0:50:11.859
get internalized. I think you see my[br]point. So you know, art is always
0:50:11.859,0:50:16.680
something like exploratory, something kind[br]of out there. And eventually it becomes
0:50:16.680,0:50:20.040
mainstream. I mean it takes time, but it[br]will become mainstream. So what do you
0:50:20.040,0:50:22.330
think will happen when this becomes[br]mainstream?
0:50:22.330,0:50:27.440
lizvlx: Well I only know, I mean, I see[br]lots of our work in the context of
0:50:27.440,0:50:33.150
Viennese Actionism and you know that was[br]in the 60s when it just smeared each other
0:50:33.150,0:50:37.210
up with you know any kind of body fluids[br]and so on. And that's still not really
0:50:37.210,0:50:42.480
mainstream in a way. So I can't go back to[br]any historical parallel really.
0:50:42.480,0:50:46.260
Q: I don't think there's any historical[br]parallel. I think this is always new.
0:50:46.260,0:50:49.750
lizvlx: But I guess it just in a way it[br]becomes more mainstream because it gets
0:50:49.750,0:50:54.880
old, you know? It's like an old computer[br]with the old website, for example.
0:50:54.880,0:50:57.240
Q: So it never really gets internalized in[br]a certain sense?
0:50:57.240,0:50:59.869
lizvlx: It might not, which I really like,[br]yeah.
0:50:59.869,0:51:04.119
Q: Weird stuff, thanks.[br]lizvlx: Yeah, you're welcome. good
0:51:04.119,0:51:06.119
question![br]Herald: There is time for one last
0:51:06.119,0:51:08.200
question, which is to the guy in the[br]microphone one.
0:51:08.200,0:51:11.390
Q: Hi I have a follow-up.[br]lizvlx: hey
0:51:11.390,0:51:17.070
Q: The first thing is concerning the[br]surveillance in the first world. I mean if
0:51:17.070,0:51:22.880
you're in Africa often too, or often. I[br]mean how many people there have mobile
0:51:22.880,0:51:28.700
phones and will have in the next years and[br]what will they do with it. That's actually
0:51:28.700,0:51:34.240
my question and i think that's why i don't[br]think this first world third world thing i
0:51:34.240,0:51:38.420
don't think that works at all. Because our[br]aim is to make one world, and in this one
0:51:38.420,0:51:44.750
world we all will have this problem. And[br]the second question is how does like
0:51:44.750,0:51:50.270
animal rights law abuse how does that[br]somehow refer to anti-terrorist laws.
0:51:50.270,0:51:58.610
lizvlx: Well okay first question. Lots of[br]people have phones in Africa. Extremely,
0:51:58.610,0:52:01.380
an enormous amount. Because they use it[br]for payment. They don't use it for
0:52:01.380,0:52:04.550
internet surfing. Because that's not[br]possible. So it's a totally different
0:52:04.550,0:52:09.900
usage. So surveillance comes in from a[br]totally different aspect. So you can't
0:52:09.900,0:52:14.710
make these people profiles out of their[br]behavior. It's just a really different
0:52:14.710,0:52:19.790
world. If you want to make it one world[br]that's great, but it's not there yet. So
0:52:19.790,0:52:26.510
it doesn't make sense I think to impose[br]our first world scenarios onto theirs.
0:52:26.510,0:52:30.490
Because it's not the situation yet, you[br]know? But at least that's also what i get
0:52:30.490,0:52:36.560
from you know talking to people from[br]Africa. That's one thing and the second
0:52:36.560,0:52:39.990
one, how does that correlate with[br]antiterrorist? Because it doesn't matter
0:52:39.990,0:52:43.859
to them any more. Because if they want to[br]take your website offline or whatever
0:52:43.859,0:52:49.200
you're doing they want to stop it, they[br]will find some kind of aspect in any kind
0:52:49.200,0:52:53.370
of law business, they'll find and then[br]they'll get at you. And also I mean
0:52:53.370,0:52:58.540
obviously when it comes to animal rights,[br]you're quite quickly in a terrorist scheme
0:52:58.540,0:53:04.740
because it's like the anti-organized[br]crime. There was quite a bunch of
0:53:04.740,0:53:11.000
activists incarcerated in Austria because[br]of animal rights activism. So actually
0:53:11.000,0:53:15.210
that's really close together. What you[br]wouldn't think but it actually is by now.
0:53:15.210,0:53:22.410
Um we have yeah if you can we have a 30[br]seconds question from the Signal guy up
0:53:22.410,0:53:25.200
there.[br]Signal Angel: That's fine so we had a lot
0:53:25.200,0:53:32.440
of questions on IRC on why did you put[br]your daughter on stage? laughter
0:53:32.440,0:53:41.701
lizvlx: Why is my daughter on stage?[br]Because she likes being with me. Yeah it's
0:53:41.701,0:53:46.180
very easy. It's a family business[br]situation. I asked her if she wanted to be
0:53:46.180,0:53:50.220
in the audience or up on stage with me[br]she's opted for the stage version.