WEBVTT 00:00:08.687 --> 00:00:10.694 FATHER: He was in college when he was in fifteen. 00:00:11.334 --> 00:00:12.080 LANDLADY: …he's different. 00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:14.477 I've never known anybody like him ever. 00:00:15.160 --> 00:00:18.920 And venture to say that I probably never will. 00:00:18.920 --> 00:00:25.809 MOTHER: Most of his art is actually writing. 00:00:28.542 --> 00:00:31.520 RAYMOND: I spend a lot more  time writing than I do drawing - 00:00:31.520 --> 00:00:33.720 I really wouldn't want to make that distinction 00:00:33.720 --> 00:00:37.136 or feel the need to separate the two. 00:00:41.920 --> 00:00:45.505 The fact is I make work that, that requires both. 00:00:47.734 --> 00:00:51.360 FATHER: all those books downstairs,  and the thousands we have, 00:00:51.360 --> 00:00:53.180 he reads those all the time. 00:00:53.681 --> 00:00:56.560 LANDLADY: he loved to find books that are, 00:00:56.560 --> 00:00:58.560 that they are underlined or highlighted 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:01.960 because especially those people  might not even be alive any more, 00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:04.564 so it's like he gets to kind of shadow 00:01:04.720 --> 00:01:08.345 and find out what was interesting to  the people that have gone before him… 00:01:09.921 --> 00:01:12.682 RAYMOND: My writing is associational. 00:01:14.960 --> 00:01:19.131 You don't necessarily know where it's  going to go while you're doing it. 00:01:20.840 --> 00:01:22.200 Sometimes people, ah, comment that the, 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:26.515 that there's such a disparity  between the image and the words… 00:01:28.360 --> 00:01:31.618 It mirrors the way I work overall quite a bit… 00:01:34.147 --> 00:01:36.640 LANDLADY: I'm not trying to  say he's a slob, it's just, 00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:39.880 that's the way he works and I believe  that he has to have his stuff around him, 00:01:39.880 --> 00:01:42.227 all around him like that to be able to work. 00:01:43.320 --> 00:01:45.440 That looks normal for him. 00:01:47.080 --> 00:01:49.280 But it’s just hysterical to me that in his mind, 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:52.846 he felt that he would not make a mess at all. 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:04.067 He’s eccentric at times, I would have to say. 00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:08.780 I have a special place in my heart for  him, I just think he’s a great guy. 00:02:09.453 --> 00:02:16.233 RAYMOND: This is gonna be a  coup, actually, seeing me… 00:02:17.200 --> 00:02:21.160 first, first known record or case of me 00:02:21.160 --> 00:02:24.493 actually arranging or kind  of cleaning up the place. 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:31.937 It can't be a documentary though, 00:02:33.941 --> 00:02:35.360 because no one would believe it. 00:02:36.180 --> 00:02:40.280 LANDLADY: He just has a really broad  range of things that interest him, 00:02:40.280 --> 00:02:44.040 and it can be erotic to a bowl of fruit, 00:02:44.040 --> 00:02:46.600 A mind that can do that… 00:02:46.600 --> 00:02:52.800 that kind of broad spectrum  artistically has to be pretty busy 00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:54.120 with a lot of different things. 00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:57.807 MOTHER: It's a thinking  persons art, isn't it true? 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:01.240 It's not just drawing pretty pictures, 00:03:01.240 --> 00:03:06.100 and he has all these ideas. 00:03:07.171 --> 00:03:10.400 RAYMOND: The way I think and the  way I talk and the way I write, 00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:12.040 it’s not very direct always. 00:03:12.040 --> 00:03:13.480 It can lead anywhere. 00:03:13.480 --> 00:03:15.560 I want it to be as fluent as possible. 00:03:15.560 --> 00:03:17.783 I mean, that’s a major part of my work. 00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:24.000 Almost like an athlete would exercise his muscles 00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:27.320 and do the same moves and get to a point 00:03:27.320 --> 00:03:29.760 where it becomes almost instinctive. 00:03:39.480 --> 00:03:43.840 Even though my work is usually  just, just one drawing, 00:03:45.200 --> 00:03:50.480 it is more of a narrative than  it is a cartoon with a punch line 00:03:50.480 --> 00:03:55.000 and a resolution and a laugh at the end. 00:03:55.680 --> 00:04:00.472 There still is an element of caricature  and cartoons that my work retains. 00:04:01.920 --> 00:04:06.240 Gumby represents an alter-ego  for my work as an artist. 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:10.440 There’s actually a lot more  to that figure than just 00:04:10.440 --> 00:04:13.219 ninety-eight ounces of clay or whatever. 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:20.360 In some of his cartoons he goes  into a biography or historical book 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:24.444 and he interacts with real figures from the past. 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:29.128 And I tend to do that in my  work and in my videos as well. 00:04:30.840 --> 00:04:34.482 You know, who for me, does more  than Gumby would be Vavoom. 00:04:35.029 --> 00:04:39.120 When I'm doing drawings of Vavoom,  putting him in this kind of 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:44.360 epic, sublime, romantic  landscape and he is this little, 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:46.625 little guy with a booming voice… 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:50.360 I consider characters like Gumby or Vavoom, 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:56.867 Felix the Cat, with respect, compared  to the President of the United States… 00:04:59.760 --> 00:05:01.562 this one or any or them, you know, really. 00:05:03.840 --> 00:05:05.920 And those are the real cartoon figures, 00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:09.868 and those are the real ridiculous figures. 00:05:12.213 --> 00:05:15.840 RAYMOND: There’s a very direct  kind of anger in some of my work. 00:05:15.840 --> 00:05:21.760 The pretentious, the powerful, decadent, corrupt. 00:05:21.760 --> 00:05:24.734 Those would tend to be people  who I don’t respect at all. 00:05:25.840 --> 00:05:30.680 It's a way of trying to  break down this natural awe 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:35.862 with those heroes that comes  out of a sort of fear and envy… 00:05:38.960 --> 00:05:41.560 I've never considered myself  much of a political artist. 00:05:41.560 --> 00:05:46.076 And most of my art doesn't really deal  in like explicitly political issues. 00:05:48.400 --> 00:05:53.800 But you know, I'm not going to  apologize or shy away from it any, 00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:56.011 any more than I would any other subject. 00:05:59.383 --> 00:06:03.240 (Patty) Daddy, you never  taught me the facts of life. 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:04.751 You never read me Marx. 00:06:05.480 --> 00:06:10.280 I grew up not knowing what  a worker is or what they do. 00:06:10.280 --> 00:06:11.760 Look at me now Daddy. 00:06:11.760 --> 00:06:12.996 Look at your little daughter. 00:06:13.520 --> 00:06:14.800 I’m out of the closet for good. 00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:17.935 The blindfold’s peeled off  for the first time in my life. 00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:21.720 RAYMOND: Patty Hearst and the SLA… 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:26.400 it would really be impossible  I would think, for me anyway, 00:06:26.400 --> 00:06:30.200 to not treat it with broad comic aspect to it 00:06:30.200 --> 00:06:35.000 because the whole situation  was such a broad burlesque. 00:06:37.080 --> 00:06:40.360 And like a lot of the best humor, 00:06:40.360 --> 00:06:43.655 whether it's the Three Stooges or Molière, 00:06:44.680 --> 00:06:50.760 it's about someone who is  really strident or pretentious, 00:06:50.760 --> 00:06:54.560 and a lot of political groups from the sixties, 00:06:54.560 --> 00:06:59.080 seventies were so full of their own righteousness. 00:06:59.080 --> 00:07:02.498 It's hard to take that sort of thing seriously. 00:07:02.680 --> 00:07:07.800 If you can see it from any historical distance… 00:07:09.212 --> 00:07:12.813 If I'm going to be  condemned for broaching that subject 00:07:13.200 --> 00:07:17.218 from a comic angle that is,  that's completely absurd… 00:07:19.200 --> 00:07:22.840 to demonize them in particular when 00:07:22.840 --> 00:07:26.240 you had a war going on that was killing millions, 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:31.080 I mean it's a way for me to  objectify the lines there. 00:07:31.080 --> 00:07:33.720 To even the playing field a little bit, 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:38.277 rather than picking one enemy and demonizing them 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:41.775 to basically cover your own ass. 00:07:56.841 --> 00:08:02.320 RAYMOND: Now if you could get me  on camera doing a straight line 00:08:02.320 --> 00:08:07.147 that would also be a historic shot. 00:08:08.400 --> 00:08:09.711 That's not going to happen here. 00:08:13.880 --> 00:08:16.600 If you do look at my, my  works, baseball for instance, 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:20.129 there is a kind of larger than  life attitude to a lot of it. 00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:26.440 Not all the works are pure  adulation of the ball players. 00:08:26.440 --> 00:08:30.680 Baseball has probably been my  favorite since I was a child. 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:33.440 The reason why I keep coming  back to certain images 00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:38.214 is probably most often that there's  a visual quality that works for me, 00:08:38.920 --> 00:08:42.360 whether you are throwing the  pitch or batting the ball 00:08:42.360 --> 00:08:48.000 you do have that sense of movement  and for an artist like myself, 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:53.478 whose work is that one  moment, that can be important. 00:08:54.640 --> 00:08:56.840 My work on the subject does say a lot about 00:08:56.840 --> 00:09:00.080 what goes on off the field  as well about the society– 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:07.709 it's kind of a microcosm  of the society as a whole. 00:09:08.712 --> 00:09:17.688 MOTHER: He draws a train and it can give you maybe hundred stories just looking at the train. 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:23.485 RAYMOND: I think trains in my  work are particularly American. 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:31.604 In this country, we still had vast frontiers left. 00:09:32.766 --> 00:09:39.279 It was about bringing the shores  together, about going west. 00:09:42.240 --> 00:09:47.880 Even when I was a kid, when  I heard the train at night 00:09:47.880 --> 00:09:52.130 it was like the equivalent of running  off and joining the circus, I guess. 00:09:55.160 --> 00:09:59.320 Every American kid kind of had that  somewhere in his mind and kind of embedded. 00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:07.251 Beyond that, it’s an image that works  well for the kind of drawings I do. 00:10:25.901 --> 00:10:29.320 RAYMOND: What you see is these motifs  that keep reoccurring in my work. 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:36.300 They started as one image and for whatever reason, 00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:47.272 they did have this kind of resonance to  me and that brought them back and some of, 00:10:47.272 --> 00:10:51.098 some of them, you know,  have had a fairly long life. 00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:07.004 There is a kind of a strain in my work that  is usually described as like a film noir. 00:11:09.760 --> 00:11:14.920 There probably is more failure depicted  in my work then there is success. 00:11:17.354 --> 00:11:20.120 (Landlady) I find a lot of humor in his work, 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:23.720 because the world’s kind of scary sometimes, 00:11:23.720 --> 00:11:28.520 and he tends to be able to make some  of the most horrible things funny. 00:11:30.440 --> 00:11:33.440 He’ll just flat out put it down on paper 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:36.321 and then write something about  it and you can’t help but laugh. 00:11:41.219 --> 00:11:45.040 Ray: I don't like my humor to be in  the service of making fun of people 00:11:45.040 --> 00:11:51.764 based on superficialities just for the  sake of going for some cheap laugh. 00:11:54.520 --> 00:11:56.600 I won’t do that if it will hurt someone, 00:11:56.600 --> 00:12:01.040 if it’s based on things that  people have no control over. 00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:06.680 We as humans still so oftentimes feel the need to 00:12:06.680 --> 00:12:08.203 have someone to pick on, you know. 00:12:11.780 --> 00:12:15.480 RAYMOND: Art can be a kind of  therapeutic or kind of a fantasy life or, 00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:21.454 or wish fulfillment or creating  this alternate universe. 00:12:30.274 --> 00:12:31.976 Art to me is, gives me the freedom 00:12:31.976 --> 00:12:32.888 to do that. 00:12:35.394 --> 00:12:38.021 I don’t feel constrained by 00:12:39.274 --> 00:12:41.225 the subject matter… 00:12:41.225 --> 00:12:44.134 I welcome practically anything 00:12:45.299 --> 00:12:47.607 into the drawing. 00:12:51.320 --> 00:12:56.222 I think it’s work that is best when  there isn’t any final resolution. 00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:00.460 When you don't arrive.