WEBVTT

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: We're in
Saint Peter's Basilica standing

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in front of
Michelangelo's Pieta.

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DR. BETH HARRIS:
I feel very lucky,

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because on this rainy Monday
morning, we're the only ones.

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: And it
actually looks quite small--

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DR. BETH HARRIS: It does.

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: In
relationship to the chapel

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that holds it, but
also especially

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in relationship to Saint
Peter's, which is so vast.

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DR. BETH HARRIS: Of
course, this sculpture

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was made for a
cardinal, but then it

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was placed in the
old Saint Peter's,

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which was significantly
smaller than this one.

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And so it would have had
a different relationship

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to the architecture.

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: What
I'm finding interesting

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is despite the fact that
it's relatively small,

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and probably about
20 feet away from us,

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it's still a really
intimate image.

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There really is this
extraordinary relationship

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that Michelangelo
has constructed

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between the body
of the dead Christ

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and his mother, the Virgin
Mary, who holds him on her lap.

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DR. BETH HARRIS: Mary looks
very young and beautiful,

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but her body is-- and her lap
is sort of enlarged to carry

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the body of her dead son, but
the realization that dead body,

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of its weight--

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: It's weight.

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DR. BETH HARRIS: One of the most
beautiful passages, I think,

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of the sculpture is the way
that she holds up his right arm,

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and pulls up that
flesh a little bit.

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And you really
feel first of all,

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that the marble is transformed
by Michelangelo into flesh,

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but also the weight of that
body, and through that weight,

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the loss of life that's
so palpable for Mary.

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER:
It's the complete lack

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of resistance that
his body offers

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and the exertion that she has
to extend in order to hold him.

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And that contrast
makes for the viewer,

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I think, a very
physical experience

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looking at the sculpture.

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DR. BETH HARRIS: His
body looks so much

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like the body of a real,
young man, the ribcage

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and the abdominal muscles.

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER:
And yet it's also

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idealized in the
way in which there's

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this beautiful turn of
his body across her lap.

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And for Mary as well, there's
this interesting contradiction

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in her sweetness,
and the beauty,

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but also the strength and the
scale that's necessary for her

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to easily hold him.

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Look at how deeply
carved that marble is.

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DR. BETH HARRIS: The drapery.

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER:
This real love

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of the turn of the stone, that's
creating this very vivid sense

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of alternation, really,
of light and shadow,

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the complexity of
surface against

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the broad, pure surfaces of
Christ's legs, of his torso,

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of his arm.

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DR. BETH HARRIS: Mary tilts her
head forward, and looks down

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at him.

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His head is thrown
back, so there's

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[INAUDIBLE] between
those two necks for me.

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: And
his neck is exposed to us,

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incredibly vulnerable.

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Christ's foot hangs in midair.

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Mary, her left hand is open and
pointing delicately forward,

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as if she still trying
to comprehend his death.

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DR. BETH HARRIS: But
I think there's also

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a way of presenting Christ's
body to the viewers,

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saying this is the
path to salvation.

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This is God's sacrifice for
mankind, my sacrifice of my son

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that makes possible
your redemption.

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: There
is a kind of rhythm

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that points to that hand.

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The drape and the knee point
up towards Christ's knees,

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which in turn create a kind of
rhythmic bridge to her hand,

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and to that sense of wondering.

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This is very clearly
an image that's

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meant to be contemplated.

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And the pain and the suffering
that Christ has endured that--

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DR. BETH HARRIS:
And Mary's enduring.

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: That
Mary is enduring is

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meant to be contemplated
as a pathway.

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DR. BETH HARRIS: They're
polishing the floor.

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER:
OK, let's move on.

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