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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: We're in[br]Saint Peter's Basilica standing

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in front of[br]Michelangelo's Pieta.

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DR. BETH HARRIS:[br]I feel very lucky,

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because on this rainy Monday[br]morning, we're the only ones.

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: And it[br]actually looks quite small--

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DR. BETH HARRIS: It does.

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: In[br]relationship to the chapel

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that holds it, but[br]also especially

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in relationship to Saint[br]Peter's, which is so vast.

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DR. BETH HARRIS: Of[br]course, this sculpture

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was made for a[br]cardinal, but then it

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was placed in the[br]old Saint Peter's,

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which was significantly[br]smaller than this one.

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And so it would have had[br]a different relationship

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to the architecture.

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: What[br]I'm finding interesting

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is despite the fact that[br]it's relatively small,

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and probably about[br]20 feet away from us,

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it's still a really[br]intimate image.

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There really is this[br]extraordinary relationship

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that Michelangelo[br]has constructed

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between the body[br]of the dead Christ

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and his mother, the Virgin[br]Mary, who holds him on her lap.

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DR. BETH HARRIS: Mary looks[br]very young and beautiful,

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but her body is-- and her lap[br]is sort of enlarged to carry

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the body of her dead son, but[br]the realization that dead body,

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of its weight--

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: It's weight.

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DR. BETH HARRIS: One of the most[br]beautiful passages, I think,

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of the sculpture is the way[br]that she holds up his right arm,

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and pulls up that[br]flesh a little bit.

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And you really[br]feel first of all,

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that the marble is transformed[br]by Michelangelo into flesh,

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but also the weight of that[br]body, and through that weight,

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the loss of life that's[br]so palpable for Mary.

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER:[br]It's the complete lack

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of resistance that[br]his body offers

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and the exertion that she has[br]to extend in order to hold him.

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And that contrast[br]makes for the viewer,

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I think, a very[br]physical experience

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looking at the sculpture.

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DR. BETH HARRIS: His[br]body looks so much

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like the body of a real,[br]young man, the ribcage

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and the abdominal muscles.

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER:[br]And yet it's also

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idealized in the[br]way in which there's

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this beautiful turn of[br]his body across her lap.

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And for Mary as well, there's[br]this interesting contradiction

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in her sweetness,[br]and the beauty,

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but also the strength and the[br]scale that's necessary for her

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to easily hold him.

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Look at how deeply[br]carved that marble is.

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DR. BETH HARRIS: The drapery.

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER:[br]This real love

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of the turn of the stone, that's[br]creating this very vivid sense

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of alternation, really,[br]of light and shadow,

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the complexity of[br]surface against

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the broad, pure surfaces of[br]Christ's legs, of his torso,

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of his arm.

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DR. BETH HARRIS: Mary tilts her[br]head forward, and looks down

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at him.

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His head is thrown[br]back, so there's

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[INAUDIBLE] between[br]those two necks for me.

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: And[br]his neck is exposed to us,

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incredibly vulnerable.

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Christ's foot hangs in midair.

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Mary, her left hand is open and[br]pointing delicately forward,

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as if she still trying[br]to comprehend his death.

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DR. BETH HARRIS: But[br]I think there's also

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a way of presenting Christ's[br]body to the viewers,

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saying this is the[br]path to salvation.

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This is God's sacrifice for[br]mankind, my sacrifice of my son

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that makes possible[br]your redemption.

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: There[br]is a kind of rhythm

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that points to that hand.

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The drape and the knee point[br]up towards Christ's knees,

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which in turn create a kind of[br]rhythmic bridge to her hand,

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and to that sense of wondering.

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This is very clearly[br]an image that's

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meant to be contemplated.

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And the pain and the suffering[br]that Christ has endured that--

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DR. BETH HARRIS:[br]And Mary's enduring.

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: That[br]Mary is enduring is

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meant to be contemplated[br]as a pathway.

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DR. BETH HARRIS: They're[br]polishing the floor.

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DR. STEVEN ZUCKER:[br]OK, let's move on.

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