0:00:00.462,0:00:06.014 CAMERON: Hi, everyone. Welcome to Pivotal[br]Labs and the New York City Accessibility Meetup. 0:00:06.014,0:00:07.676 Thank you for coming tonight. 0:00:07.676,0:00:13.128 We're very excited to have our second meetup, [br]and we're happy to have all of you here. 0:00:13.128,0:00:19.730 So Pivotal Labs -- I just want to give a shoutout[br]for hosting us tonight. 0:00:19.730,0:00:21.112 I work at Pivotal Labs. 0:00:21.112,0:00:24.392 We're an agile development consultancy, 0:00:24.392,0:00:28.226 doing mostly web development[br]and mobile app development. 0:00:28.226,0:00:34.793 So if you have any needs in web development, [br]or even web development with accessibility, 0:00:34.793,0:00:37.294 we do that, so come talk to me. 0:00:37.294,0:00:42.250 Today I'm excited to introduce to you Mirabai Knight, [br] 0:00:42.250,0:00:48.893 who works on Plover, [br]which is an open-source stenography tool. 0:00:48.893,0:00:52.501 Without further ado, [br]I'll let you introduce yourself, Mirabai. 0:00:55.641,0:00:56.387 MIRABAI: Hello. 0:01:04.254,0:01:09.423 Hi. My name is Mirabai Knight,[br]and I'm a stenographer. 0:01:09.423,0:01:12.906 I won't keep doing that,[br]because we have Stan to caption me, 0:01:12.906,0:01:18.198 but I just want to talk a little bit about Plover, [br]my open source project, 0:01:18.198,0:01:22.648 and the accessibility implications of it, [br] 0:01:22.648,0:01:25.263 and then I'm going to hand it over[br]to Plover's lead developer, 0:01:25.263,0:01:27.512 Hesky Fisher, and he'll talk a little bit about 0:01:27.512,0:01:32.398 developing open source projects[br]that have accessibility implications 0:01:32.398,0:01:35.491 and managing the community[br]and stuff along those lines. 0:01:37.456,0:01:44.064 So how many people here[br]have actually seen a live captioner in action? 0:01:44.064,0:01:46.879 Not on television, but in the room? 0:01:46.879,0:01:47.982 That's awesome. 0:01:47.982,0:01:50.759 That's definitely what I like to see in a room [br]full of accessibility people. 0:01:50.759,0:01:53.790 [br]That's, like, probably 90% of the room. 0:01:53.790,0:01:54.542 Glad to hear it. 0:01:54.542,0:01:57.552 Because we're a fairly obscure[br]profession, even now. 0:01:57.552,0:02:01.930 Steno machines have been around[br]since about 1912, 0:02:01.930,0:02:10.023 but we were only hooked up to computers[br]as of the late 1980s, so as a profession, 0:02:10.023,0:02:14.647 live captioning is very young, and most people,[br]if they have heard of it, 0:02:14.647,0:02:18.286 only think of it for television and not for live applications. 0:02:18.286,0:02:23.087 But myself, I work in universities, primarily, [br]for Deaf and hard of hearing college students. [br] 0:02:23.087,0:02:28.037 I also work with professionals[br]for business meetings and conferences. 0:02:28.037,0:02:34.432 And it was around six years ago [br]that I graduated from steno school. 0:02:34.432,0:02:37.315 I'd gotten started as sort of an apprentice captioner, [br] 0:02:37.315,0:02:41.294 and I was very frustrated[br]with my proprietary steno software, 0:02:41.294,0:02:47.452 which cost $4000, had really obnoxious DRM 0:02:47.452,0:02:51.886 that required me to jump through[br]all sorts of hoops even to use the software, 0:02:51.886,0:02:55.086 and really limited my ability to use it[br]the way I wanted to. 0:02:55.086,0:03:00.084 And it didn't have a number of key features [br]that I really needed for my captioning work,[br] 0:03:00.084,0:03:04.226 because all commercial stenography software [br]is for court reporters, which... 0:03:04.226,0:03:06.482 I've never done any court reporting. 0:03:06.482,0:03:14.133 So my brother had sort of infected me with the[br]open source bug when I was around ten years old. 0:03:14.133,0:03:17.025 He's a big open source evangelist. 0:03:17.025,0:03:20.409 And my frustration with the software, [br] 0:03:20.409,0:03:23.585 combined with that sort of thought[br]in the back of my head 0:03:23.585,0:03:26.349 that getting involved with open source[br]was a good thing to do,[br] 0:03:26.349,0:03:30.391 made me think that this might be the way to go. 0:03:30.391,0:03:35.476 So originally I thought that I would actually [br]have to learn to program and develop it myself, 0:03:35.476,0:03:39.572 because I didn't think anyone could possibly[br]want to do it for me. 0:03:39.572,0:03:42.393 But by a ridiculous stroke of luck, [br] 0:03:42.393,0:03:48.067 I put a posting in the elevator[br]of my coworking space, 0:03:48.067,0:03:49.651 asking for a Python tutor, 0:03:49.651,0:03:54.622 and the guy who answered it [br]and started off tutoring me in Python -- 0:03:54.622,0:03:57.921 it turned out that he had a PhD [br]from the MIT Media Lab, 0:03:57.921,0:04:01.911 and was both a hardware and a software guy,[br]and after a few weeks it was clear 0:04:01.911,0:04:05.584 that I did not have a gift for programming, [br]and starting from scratch it would be forever 0:04:05.584,0:04:08.924 before I was able to develop [br]the software that I actually wanted. 0:04:08.924,0:04:10.673 But he got so excited about it, 0:04:10.673,0:04:17.491 he decided he was just going to take over[br]the development from me and do it on his own. 0:04:17.491,0:04:20.755 I paid him as much as I could, [br]but he worked at a steep discount. 0:04:20.755,0:04:24.529 So he developed Plover for about a year. 0:04:24.529,0:04:27.196 Then he got another job and had to give it up. 0:04:27.196,0:04:29.228 When Hesky, my savior, 0:04:29.228,0:04:35.043 contacted me out of the blue, [br]because his girlfriend was in steno school. 0:04:35.043,0:04:37.322 Actually, the same steno school[br]that I graduated from. 0:04:37.322,0:04:41.690 And he wanted to do his part to make steno [br]cheap and accessible. 0:04:41.690,0:04:43.880 So he's been developing it ever since. 0:04:43.880,0:04:47.495 He's amazing,[br]and he'll tell you all about that story later. 0:04:47.495,0:04:49.212 But basically... 0:04:49.212,0:04:52.360 I can go over the nuts and bolts[br]of steno if you want, 0:04:52.360,0:04:54.647 maybe in the questions,[br]if you're curious about the details, 0:04:54.647,0:04:56.774 [br]but because I don't have that much time, 0:04:56.774,0:05:03.399 I think I want to focus more on the potential[br]of steno in various accessibility areas. 0:05:03.399,0:05:08.394 So first off, I think,[br]It's pretty obvious: Captioning. 0:05:08.394,0:05:13.152 This guy right here, Stan Sakai, my captioner, [br]actually started out on Plover. 0:05:13.152,0:05:20.028 He originally just wanted to use steno to take notes [br]when he was in college, 0:05:20.028,0:05:22.226 but he wound up getting so excited about it, 0:05:22.226,0:05:25.533 he taught himself, you know, [br]and practiced ten hours a night 0:05:25.533,0:05:29.183 for about a year, and finally realized[br]that he had gotten up to 0:05:29.183,0:05:31.150 about 230 words per minute, 0:05:31.150,0:05:34.092 which is the speed you really[br]need to be a entry-level captioner, 0:05:34.092,0:05:37.933 and I think dropped out of college[br]and launched his career as a captioner. 0:05:37.933,0:05:39.988 I think he's pretty happy about it. 0:05:39.988,0:05:41.410 He didn't do that with Plover the whole way.[br] 0:05:41.410,0:05:43.100 He actually switched to proprietary software,[br] 0:05:43.100,0:05:46.202 because Plover wasn't in [br]the proper shape at that point, 0:05:46.202,0:05:48.826 But I still count him as one of our success stories. 0:05:48.826,0:05:53.703 So captioning for Deaf and hard of hearing[br]people is incredibly important. 0:05:53.703,0:06:03.760 It's very useful for all sorts of people, 0:06:03.760,0:06:07.777 but primarily people with hearing loss[br]who don't know sign language 0:06:07.777,0:06:10.932 or might not even [br]acknowledge their hearing loss, 0:06:10.932,0:06:13.912 which is the vast majority of people[br]who have hearing loss[br] 0:06:13.912,0:06:18.611 that interferes with their life moderately[br]to significantly in some situations,[br] 0:06:18.611,0:06:20.523 but not at all in others. 0:06:20.523,0:06:24.811 These are people -- often they've begun to lose[br]their hearing in middle age, 0:06:24.811,0:06:30.035 and that carries through to, you know,[br]into their 60s and 70s. 0:06:30.035,0:06:33.273 They don't acknowledge their hearing loss, [br]they don't necessarily recognize it, 0:06:33.273,0:06:36.346 and they have no idea what they can do to compensate for it. 0:06:36.346,0:06:37.557 Hearing aids can only do so much. 0:06:37.557,0:06:40.709 Many of them are not candidates[br]for cochlear implants, [br] 0:06:40.709,0:06:43.714 and they often don't know that captioning exists. 0:06:45.274,0:06:49.635 But along the way,[br]as this accommodation has sort of picked up speed, 0:06:49.635,0:06:52.767 more and more captioning is offered [br]as a matter of course, [br] 0:06:52.767,0:06:56.906 not necessarily specifically[br]requested by Deaf advocates 0:06:56.906,0:07:02.458 who know their rights and are able to ask for it,[br]but it's just become an included accommodation, 0:07:02.458,0:07:08.178 and so this sort of invisible pool of people [br]who don't know that they have rights under 0:07:08.178,0:07:11.782 the Americans with Disabilities Act, [br]who may be fine one-on-one in a small room, 0:07:11.782,0:07:15.503 but who are totally at sea in a large auditorium, [br]where they can't read anyone's lips -- 0:07:15.503,0:07:18.696 they're finally beginning to realize[br]that there's an accommodation [br] 0:07:18.696,0:07:21.104 that works for them. 0:07:21.104,0:07:24.826 Also there are people who use sign interpreters [br]in some situations, [br] 0:07:24.826,0:07:27.297 who prefer captioning in other situations. 0:07:27.297,0:07:34.597 You know, they might want to have sign interpretation for conversational, or mobile, or very interactive sessions, 0:07:34.597,0:07:37.415 but for things like lectures, where there's very[br]specific terminology 0:07:37.415,0:07:42.035 that might not have specific analogs in sign,[br]captioning might be better. 0:07:42.035,0:07:46.858 Captioning is also really useful for people[br]with attention deficit disorder, 0:07:46.858,0:07:50.421 it's useful for some people with dyslexia, [br]which might seem counterintuitive, 0:07:50.421,0:07:58.761 but having the bimodal input of getting something[br]both from your ears and into your eyes at the same time 0:07:58.761,0:08:02.678 can often help people to comprehend information[br]and process information more thoroughly, 0:08:02.678,0:08:06.585 even if they have a reading disability. 0:08:06.585,0:08:10.847 It's also extremely useful for people who are[br]not necessarily fluent in English, 0:08:10.847,0:08:14.331 or can read it better than they can understand it aurally, 0:08:14.331,0:08:18.196 which is true of a lot of people who are just learning English.[br] 0:08:18.196,0:08:23.023 So captioning as Universal Design, I think,[br]is really important. 0:08:23.023,0:08:26.787 I probably don't have to make the case too hard for you guys, 0:08:26.787,0:08:30.442 but I just thought I'd lay out all of the ways[br]that captioning benefits a lot of people, 0:08:30.442,0:08:35.081 including that often-neglected pool of people[br]who don't self-identify as having a disability, 0:08:35.081,0:08:38.859 and don't know their rights under the ADA, [br]which is a very large group of people 0:08:38.859,0:08:45.036 who have been almost totally neglected [br]by traditional accessibility solutions. 0:08:45.036,0:08:52.467 So that's one option, [br]one sort of way that stenography is useful in accessibility. 0:08:52.467,0:08:58.173 Another way is for people with speech disabilities[br]who want to communicate, 0:08:58.173,0:09:01.611 who might use augmentative communication devices, 0:09:01.611,0:09:07.224 but if any of you guys have seen those in action, [br]you'll know that even the best of them are very slow, 0:09:07.224,0:09:11.490 and, to a certain degree, somewhat stilted. 0:09:11.490,0:09:16.737 If people are just using qwerty to type,[br]they can do maybe 100, 120 words a minute. 0:09:16.737,0:09:21.004 If people are using systems such as Minspeak, 0:09:21.004,0:09:25.376 they can sort of cluster ideas[br]and get the sentences out somewhat faster, 0:09:25.376,0:09:29.259 but even so, they're nowhere near[br]a conversational level of speech. 0:09:29.259,0:09:38.569 But with steno,[br]you can basically write as fast as you can talk. 0:09:38.569,0:09:48.898 And if you just hook this into a text-to-speech engine,[br]and you make it portable, 0:09:48.898,0:09:55.969 which is still something I'm working on,[br]you can make an AAC device that allows people to speak 0:09:55.969,0:10:04.015 at a conversational speed,[br]which is unprecedented and somewhat revolutionary. 0:10:04.015,0:10:08.781 So I think that's a really important thing[br]that we can look forward to in the future. 0:10:08.781,0:10:13.154 There aren't yet any really good mobile[br]or portable steno input devices, 0:10:13.154,0:10:15.505 but I think there's a lot of potential for that. 0:10:15.505,0:10:20.354 I'm also working on an application[br]that hooks Plover into Glass. 0:10:20.470,0:10:24.874 I've got a pair of Glass, [br]and I've got someone developing an app for it, 0:10:24.874,0:10:28.791 so I think that having that sort of feedback will also be useful. 0:10:28.791,0:10:32.280 Certainly make it more mobile and portable. 0:10:32.280,0:10:36.286 The third area, and I think this one might[br]be particularly of interest to you guys, 0:10:36.286,0:10:42.936 is addressing the terrible underemployment of blind[br]and low-vision people, 0:10:42.936,0:10:45.660 in this country and around the world. 0:10:45.660,0:10:51.188 There are incredibly well-educated,[br]brilliant, fantastic minds out there 0:10:51.188,0:10:53.893 that are going to waste,[br]because no one will employ them, 0:10:53.893,0:11:01.079 and one thing specifically that makes[br]stenography a really good fit for people with vision loss 0:11:01.079,0:11:06.211 is that text processing speed,[br]or rather speech processing speed, I think,[br] 0:11:06.211,0:11:08.157 is the fundamental bottleneck of steno. 0:11:08.157,0:11:11.174 If you look at Stan, [br]or if you look at me when I'm writing, 0:11:11.174,0:11:13.914 our fingers are not moving particularly quickly. 0:11:13.914,0:11:18.716 People might think that it's a matter of dexterity, [br]but it's really all what happens in the brain. 0:11:18.716,0:11:23.634 To be able to comprehend English speech [br]very quickly and to encode it into steno, 0:11:23.787,0:11:29.658 and then send the code to your fingers,[br]of those three steps, 0:11:29.658,0:11:35.392 by far the hardest is comprehending English[br]without slowing down and seizing up 0:11:35.392,0:11:39.523 when people are speaking to you at 240, [br]260, 280 words a minute. 0:11:39.523,0:11:43.393 Those speeds are very fast for your typical English speaker. 0:11:43.393,0:11:46.646 They're quite slow for your typical screen reader user. 0:11:46.646,0:11:52.604 I know people who use screen readers[br]who listen to them at 500, 600 words per minute. 0:11:52.604,0:11:57.124 So for people who have already done the work[br]training their brains to process speech at that level -- 0:11:57.124,0:12:04.242 I don't have any scientific evidence for this,[br]but I think there's a very good chance 0:12:04.242,0:12:10.734 that they've already done a lot of the really hard work,[br]and if they want to try to learn stenography, 0:12:10.734,0:12:16.730 I think they will have a considerable leg[br]up over most people, who, honestly, 0:12:16.730,0:12:22.421 find themselves very hard pressed to achieve[br]the speeds of 230 words per minute 0:12:22.421,0:12:27.868 that are required to be captioners, [br]court reporters, and CART providers like me. 0:12:27.868,0:12:32.031 There's an 85% dropout rate in steno schools nationwide,[br]which is pretty disgraceful, 0:12:32.031,0:12:37.601 but I think a lot of that is because people do not have[br]the sufficient speech processing speed going into it, 0:12:37.601,0:12:40.230 and they're not able to develop it while they're in school. 0:12:40.230,0:12:46.403 So those are my three ideas[br]for how stenography can impact accessibility. 0:12:46.403,0:12:48.995 And now, with Plover, which is free, 0:12:48.995,0:12:54.414 and works with hardware that's $45, [br]as opposed to this little number, which is about $4000, 0:12:54.414,0:12:59.724 I feel like we might be poised on the edge[br]of a sort of Steno Renaissance.[br] 0:12:59.724,0:13:01.855 I'm really hoping to get that going. 0:13:01.855,0:13:05.740 So I'm going to turn it over to Hesky,[br]and he'll tell you all about how this goes. 0:13:13.763,0:13:14.328 HESKY: Static. [br] 0:13:17.094,0:13:18.745 Is this working? 0:13:18.745,0:13:20.406 Excellent. 0:13:25.714,0:13:27.294 Hi, everyone. 0:13:27.294,0:13:29.904 I'm Hesky, and I'm the lead developer on Plover right now. 0:13:29.904,0:13:35.640 As Mirabai said,[br]my girlfriend enrolled in stenography school, 0:13:35.640,0:13:37.049 and I wanted to learn a little bit about it. 0:13:37.049,0:13:40.740 It's very hard to find information about stenography out there, 0:13:40.740,0:13:46.501 and it turns out that Mirabai's blog is, I think,[br]the only well-written description of it on the Internet. 0:13:46.611,0:13:50.027 I found it, and then I saw that she was[br]working on this project, 0:13:50.027,0:13:54.506 and I just wanted to make it useful for us, [br]so I started adding features that I needed, 0:13:54.506,0:13:57.384 and basically I just started working on it for fun.[br] 0:13:57.384,0:14:05.742 I never thought of myself as an accessibility programmer, [br]despite the sort of obvious connection, 0:14:05.742,0:14:08.304 until I was asked to speak here. 0:14:08.304,0:14:12.551 And I started to think about what [br]I generally think of as accessibility programming, 0:14:12.551,0:14:21.262 and how that relates to what I do, [br]and I saw some parallels beyond Plover's use case. 0:14:21.262,0:14:22.267 (clearing throat) 0:14:22.267,0:14:23.697 Excuse me. 0:14:23.697,0:14:31.730 I think that accessibility programming, [br]like coding for Plover, 0:14:31.730,0:14:34.579 often involves an intention, 0:14:34.712,0:14:40.579 without necessarily having the skill first, [br]of doing something incredibly complicated. 0:14:40.579,0:14:49.529 So if you want to make some application usable,[br]write that app or operating system or whatever, 0:14:49.529,0:14:55.423 then you suddenly have to become an expert into it, [br]beyond what a normal developer would have to know, 0:14:55.423,0:14:59.340 to somehow dig into its guts,[br]and make it give you its text, 0:14:59.340,0:15:02.340 or change its colors or anything like that. 0:15:02.340,0:15:05.089 And that's what it's been like, [br]developing Plover. 0:15:05.089,0:15:12.086 From the very beginning, writing normal code[br]to do the logic that Plover needs to do is fairly easy. 0:15:12.086,0:15:20.297 But then, suddenly, I had to convince the operating system[br]to do things that it desperately did not want to do. 0:15:20.297,0:15:26.909 As you can see, it involves things[br]like being on top of other applications, 0:15:26.909,0:15:28.687 or, you know,[br]coming up, going down. 0:15:28.687,0:15:33.825 And then, of course, the community wanted[br]it for every operating system out there. 0:15:33.825,0:15:39.059 So that became a journey of suddenly trying[br]to become that type of expert 0:15:39.059,0:15:47.257 on every operating system that I could get my hands on,[br]and similar things like that. 0:15:47.257,0:15:51.109 For example, Josh was the original programmer on Plover[br]that Mirabai mentioned. 0:15:51.109,0:15:57.051 He is quite amazing, and he is working on building[br]an open source stenography machine. 0:15:57.051,0:16:02.393 The machine that Mirabai uses here is $4000,[br]and that's not unusual. 0:16:02.393,0:16:06.463 And Josh is trying to target a much, much lower pricepoint. 0:16:06.463,0:16:08.283 I don't know exactly what that's going to be yet. 0:16:08.283,0:16:09.888 And I'm helping out. 0:16:11.709,0:16:12.453 MIRABAI: $300. 0:16:12.612,0:16:13.724 HESKY: $300. 0:16:13.845,0:16:14.968 That's very good.[br] 0:16:15.035,0:16:19.039 So that's orders of mag...[br]That's very good. 0:16:19.039,0:16:21.996 So I started from scratch. 0:16:22.466,0:16:25.903 Again, I had the intention -- I'd like to make[br]a machine that's a stenography machine. 0:16:25.903,0:16:31.622 But I don't know any of the required techniques that I need. 0:16:31.622,0:16:37.204 So once again, you know, one minor example is: 0:16:37.204,0:16:39.529 Usually the machine speaks via USB. 0:16:39.673,0:16:42.087 I had never done any USB. 0:16:42.087,0:16:47.248 I had always thought it would be a good idea to learn USB, [br]but like many people, I had an idea 0:16:47.248,0:16:52.013 that I wanted to learn hardware engineering,[br]but I never had a project I wanted to do. 0:16:52.013,0:16:54.981 Well, the problem is: [br]Once you get to the project to do, 0:16:54.981,0:17:04.038 then you have an intention now, but you haven't built that skill, [br]and it's kind of a Catch-22. 0:17:04.038,0:17:12.304 So if I can encourage anybody to start with projects earlier [br]and build up the skills that become necessary [br] 0:17:12.304,0:17:15.376 as soon as you know what you actually want to do.[br] 0:17:15.376,0:17:25.008 So the other aspect of working on Plover that's [br]interesting and similar to usability is -- 0:17:25.008,0:17:29.511 for many people who do accessibility programming -- [br]I'm not the user. 0:17:29.511,0:17:35.721 So it's very hard to... 0:17:35.721,0:17:41.995 I'm not a stenographer, and it's quite difficult[br]to guess what a stenographer actually wants, 0:17:42.117,0:17:45.914 especially when I'm making up a feature. 0:17:45.914,0:17:51.081 Even when I'm asked explicitly[br]for a feature, I'm interpreting it, you know, 0:17:51.081,0:17:52.748 based on my understanding of it. 0:17:52.748,0:17:57.272 And I think that probably has a lot in common [br]if you're doing something for a user 0:17:57.272,0:17:59.457 that's hearing-disabled or vision-disabled. 0:18:00.560,0:18:04.724 You can only put yourself in their shoes so well. 0:18:04.724,0:18:09.266 And so the most valuable tool that Plover has[br]is its community. 0:18:09.266,0:18:13.181 To constantly throw things out there and encourage feedback. 0:18:13.181,0:18:21.657 There's no way I could have made any progress without [br]the Plover community constantly giving feedback.[br] 0:18:21.657,0:18:23.043 Some of it not so polite. 0:18:23.043,0:18:26.962 But that's still very worthwhile. 0:18:26.962,0:18:31.945 And I think that has a lot of parallels, here, too. 0:18:31.945,0:18:38.294 So, speaking of the community,[br]I did not realize that I would become a babysitter, 0:18:38.294,0:18:41.241 taking on this programming role. 0:18:41.241,0:18:44.735 As soon as I had a official position, [br]where I was the main programmer, 0:18:44.735,0:18:52.029 suddenly it kind of became my responsibility to make sure[br]that the community didn't self-destruct, at times. 0:18:52.029,0:18:57.814 Every mailing list that's able to be[br]joined openly will attract... 0:18:57.814,0:19:01.367 Different types of destructive elements. 0:19:01.367,0:19:06.127 People who post about their pet peeve[br]on something unrelated. 0:19:06.127,0:19:15.145 But less destructive are people who are passionate [br]about the project, but want it to go in their direction. 0:19:16.148,0:19:18.659 And it's really hard to deal[br]with that kind of thing. 0:19:18.659,0:19:21.163 Because it goes in two directions.[br] 0:19:21.163,0:19:28.598 I want to take their feedback, and it's extremely[br]valid in most cases, but then, very often, 0:19:28.598,0:19:32.274 it immediately starts to conflict with, say,[br]my vision of where I think the project should go. 0:19:32.388,0:19:37.410 But then I have to ask myself fairly: [br]Is my vision the right one? 0:19:37.410,0:19:38.120 Right? 0:19:38.120,0:19:40.159 These are responses from the users. 0:19:40.159,0:19:44.354 And in Plover's case, there's actually [br]an interesting split between the users. 0:19:44.354,0:19:48.371 There are the people that I think of as stenographers. 0:19:48.371,0:19:52.268 People who are going to stenography school, [br]or tried stenography school and are now learning 0:19:52.268,0:19:55.926 on their own or out of books, but sort of classic stenography, 0:19:55.926,0:20:02.087 and they agree to be bound by the restrictions and rules [br]that all stenographers work by. 0:20:02.087,0:20:04.616 And there's the blue sky users. 0:20:04.616,0:20:07.177 People who show up to stenography and say, [br]"That's great. 0:20:07.177,0:20:10.312 Now, how can we make it a hundred times better?" 0:20:10.312,0:20:15.472 Let's add 30 more buttons, [br]and let's map the keyboard to everything." 0:20:15.472,0:20:23.090 And, again, I have to try to [br]balance this notion with... 0:20:23.242,0:20:25.385 Well, that's not what this app is for. 0:20:25.385,0:20:31.772 But maybe it is, [br]because these make up a certain number of users, 0:20:31.772,0:20:35.029 and maybe I'm the crazy one, right? 0:20:35.029,0:20:38.786 They've got the million dollar idea,[br]and I'm just saying that's stupid. 0:20:38.786,0:20:40.233 Let's not do it. 0:20:40.233,0:20:43.735 And so it's a complicated balance. 0:20:43.735,0:20:45.127 A balancing act. 0:20:45.127,0:20:47.566 To try to figure out which is the right way to go. 0:20:47.566,0:20:52.222 If I had a simple answer, this talk would be shorter, 0:20:52.222,0:20:57.806 But I'd say I just have to wait. 0:20:57.806,0:20:59.745 And it's not clear that I always make the right decision, 0:20:59.745,0:21:05.498 but what I try very hard to do[br]is to not make that irreversible, 0:21:05.498,0:21:07.103 in the sense that I just shoot it down. 0:21:07.103,0:21:10.946 I usually just say, "That sounds great, but I don't have the time. 0:21:11.080,0:21:16.719 But maybe if you would like to contribute that,[br]that would be fantastic." 0:21:16.719,0:21:20.120 And that's the nice thing about open-source projects,[br]is it does attract people who are passionate 0:21:20.120,0:21:23.003 and capable of contributing. 0:21:23.003,0:21:29.940 And so we do get contributions, people who write code[br]for us, and some of our best features come that way. 0:21:29.940,0:21:36.031 And when that started happening,[br]I felt like we had truly achieved a vibrant 0:21:36.031,0:21:43.314 and self-supporting community, and I think [br]that should be the goal for every open source program. 0:21:43.314,0:21:50.552 If I'm the only programmer, then that's a strong[br]single source of failure for our entire project. 0:21:50.552,0:21:56.395 So those are all the points that I wanted to touch.[br] 0:21:56.395,0:21:58.084 It's time for Q&A. 0:21:58.084,0:22:00.185 You can ask me, or Mirabai, or both. 0:22:08.666,0:22:11.366 CAMERON: If you have any questions,[br]please raise your hand, and I'll give you the mic. 0:22:16.580,0:22:17.392 HESKY: Testing.[br] 0:22:19.467,0:22:21.042 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I was wondering... 0:22:21.042,0:22:25.972 You guys both touched on Plover being[br]free and also open source, 0:22:25.972,0:22:28.167 and the kind of community around that. 0:22:28.167,0:22:31.806 Do you think that the freeness,[br]in terms of monetary cost, 0:22:31.806,0:22:35.916 was a big decision about why people use Plover?[br] 0:22:35.916,0:22:37.903 Like, to get people into it? 0:22:37.903,0:22:39.766 MIRABAI: Huge. Huge. 0:22:39.766,0:22:46.645 Right now, your options -- discounting Plover -- your options[br]for stenography software are, I guess, threefold.[br] 0:22:46.645,0:22:50.561 There's a free app -- free as in beer, not as in speech -- 0:22:50.561,0:22:53.785 app on the iPad that's basically useless. 0:22:53.785,0:23:00.271 It pretends to emulate a steno machine, but without haptic feedback it's almost impossible to actually use it. 0:23:00.271,0:23:01.711 So there's that. 0:23:01.711,0:23:04.998 But that actually came around after Plover got started. 0:23:04.998,0:23:09.124 There's student software, which is around $500. 0:23:09.124,0:23:14.868 You have to have proof of enrollment in a steno school,[br]and it's missing a lot of key features. 0:23:14.868,0:23:18.495 Like, it doesn't allow you to save files. 0:23:18.495,0:23:22.979 It basically just restricts you so massively[br]that you can barely do anything with it. 0:23:23.064,0:23:29.439 And then there's the $4000 court reporting software,[br]which is fully featured for court reporters, 0:23:29.439,0:23:32.188 but obviously not accessible to most people. 0:23:32.188,0:23:38.738 So for hobbyists, amateurs, people who want to use steno to write novels, people who want to use it to code software,[br] 0:23:38.738,0:23:41.556 Plover had to be free. 0:23:41.556,0:23:43.166 I mean, that was just the only way. 0:23:43.166,0:23:47.994 There's enough of a barrier to entry just in the learning curve of learning how to do stenography 0:23:47.994,0:23:52.802 that making the software completely free,[br]and making the hardware about $50, 0:23:53.138,0:23:55.914 which is what it is right now,[br]the cheapest option to interface with Plover, 0:23:55.914,0:24:00.786 that had to be in place before we could start [br]making the big push to get people to learn Plover. 0:24:00.786,0:24:02.383 Which, by the way, speaking of Learn Plover, 0:24:02.383,0:24:05.778 the author of our textbook,[br]Zachary Brown, is back there. 0:24:05.814,0:24:11.112 He's collaborating with me to write a free online textbook[br]to teach people stenography, 0:24:11.266,0:24:15.505 which we hope also will someday[br]get turned into an interactive video game, 0:24:15.505,0:24:17.380 which will hopefully make it even more accessible. 0:24:18.729,0:24:20.354 HESKY: I just wanted to add a little bit to that. 0:24:20.354,0:24:22.736 It's very clear from our users that money is an object, 0:24:25.487,0:24:34.814 and that expresses itself technically by very difficult questions[br]on how to get Plover running on older and older machines, 0:24:34.814,0:24:43.089 and, in fact, some people on the group have gone so far as defining "accessibility" as "working on their computers", 0:24:43.089,0:24:46.689 and I'm only half-kidding. 0:24:46.689,0:24:48.002 MIRABAI: No, it's true. 0:24:48.002,0:24:53.957 HESKY: And it could be almost heartbreaking[br]when they tell you that, like... 0:24:54.120,0:24:56.862 "So I've finally got all[br]the equipment together!" 0:24:56.862,0:25:01.284 And then I have to tell them that they have to buy some cable,[br]and it just breaks the bank, 0:25:01.284,0:25:03.288 because they have to connect things. 0:25:03.288,0:25:07.313 And it's just... 0:25:07.625,0:25:10.994 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have a follow-up on that. 0:25:10.994,0:25:15.932 So if somebody wants to get Plover or contribute to Plover,[br]what is the website? 0:25:15.932,0:25:25.342 MIRABAI: The website is ploversteno.org. 0:25:25.342,0:25:29.193 HESKY: All right, we actually suffer from too many websites. 0:25:29.193,0:25:39.182 MIRABAI: Well, Sveta, right here, amazing usability expert,[br]user experience designer, and web designer 0:25:39.182,0:25:42.779 is actually helping us consolidate[br]our websites into one general hub, 0:25:42.779,0:25:45.649 so that people can just go to just one page[br]and find what they're looking for there, 0:25:45.649,0:25:48.804 instead of the terrible sort of fractured sprawl[br]we have right now. 0:25:49.275,0:25:51.119 Thank you, Sveta! 0:25:52.749,0:26:00.964 HESKY: Right now there is the blog, the code,[br]the download page, the wiki, the forum, 0:26:00.964,0:26:05.909 the mailing list, the textbook. 0:26:08.615,0:26:09.704 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. 0:26:09.704,0:26:13.314 You mentioned the 85% dropout rate from steno school. 0:26:13.314,0:26:20.086 Is there any conversation either in Plover[br]or within the larger community about how to work on that? 0:26:22.615,0:26:25.091 MIRABAI: I could speak about this for hours. 0:26:25.091,0:26:28.724 I think there are a lot of economic components.[br] 0:26:28.724,0:26:30.350 (mic booming)[br] 0:26:30.350,0:26:40.147 Sorry. I think, to a large degree, that dropout rate is because: [br]A) steno's very difficult to do at a high level. 0:26:40.147,0:26:42.122 Meaning professional speeds. 0:26:42.122,0:26:46.267 I think it's much less difficult to do at sort of [br]general conversational speed, 0:26:46.267,0:26:48.558 or for text composition and text entry. 0:26:48.558,0:26:52.907 I think that's a pretty reasonable goalpost for most people. 0:26:52.907,0:26:54.791 But actual professional steno speeds, 0:26:54.889,0:26:59.804 230 to 240 words per minute, [br]very difficult for many people. 0:26:59.804,0:27:05.753 The other thing to consider is that a lot of people[br]are going into steno school who don't necessarily[br] 0:27:05.753,0:27:09.039 have the baseline language skills in English. 0:27:09.039,0:27:15.459 It's seen as sort of a clerical field,[br]and a good middle class career. 0:27:15.459,0:27:21.519 But most of the schools are for-profit,[br]and there aren't really any admission requirements. 0:27:21.519,0:27:25.057 So they'll basically recruit on the subways;[br]they'll tell everyone to just come in. 0:27:25.057,0:27:31.826 They'll sell them the $1,000 student steno machine,[br]let them go through a theory class, 0:27:31.826,0:27:36.095 after a certain point, these students don't[br]get to their goal speeds, 0:27:36.095,0:27:39.897 their financial aid runs out, they're not passing tests,[br]they drop out, 0:27:39.897,0:27:44.682 they sell their machine back to the school,[br]the school sells it back again to another set of students. 0:27:44.682,0:27:50.557 So there isn't really any incentive for these[br]for-profit schools to improve the graduation rates. 0:27:50.557,0:27:54.157 And, honestly, I mean, even the ones that acting [br]in good faith and trying to graduate 0:27:54.157,0:27:55.723 as many students of possible -- 0:27:55.723,0:28:03.296 the pool of people entering steno school is not necessarily the people who have the baseline skills necessary to succeed. 0:28:03.296,0:28:07.841 So my solution is just to make steno not[br]something you have to go to school for, 0:28:07.841,0:28:10.778 and that you don't have to buy a $1,000 machine for[br]and pay tuition for. 0:28:10.778,0:28:14.743 Make steno something that, [br]if you want to give it a try and see if you have a knack for it, 0:28:14.743,0:28:17.882 and play around with it, you know, play a video game[br]a couple hours a night, 0:28:17.882,0:28:23.718 and see if your speed takes off, because you're just[br]one of those inherently inborn natural stenographers, 0:28:23.918,0:28:25.264 like Stan -- 0:28:25.264,0:28:30.903 that's something you can do without risking[br]a ton of time and money and effort and risk. 0:28:31.491,0:28:34.063 HESKY: Just quickly wanted to add that, 0:28:34.063,0:28:37.210 because of the structure of how you learn steno,[br]you enroll in school, 0:28:37.210,0:28:42.297 you have the large initial outlay for the equipment,[br]software, and tuition, and then, 0:28:42.297,0:28:45.426 when you realize that you're not going to make it in the profession, there's a huge frustration, 0:28:45.426,0:28:48.204 and usually a complete dumping of the thing. 0:28:48.204,0:28:52.803 You sell your old machine back, your old textbooks,[br]and you move on. 0:28:52.803,0:28:56.795 And it's unfortunate, because of that structure,[br]dropping out is considered a failure. 0:28:56.795,0:29:01.466 Because the person who drops out[br]could have reached 130, 180, or something like that, 0:29:01.466,0:29:03.123 and that's a useful skill in and of itself, 0:29:03.233,0:29:06.458 but that's not what they signed up for in terms of schooling. 0:29:06.458,0:29:13.074 We're hoping that, with people having open source[br]and free methods, that that's not a failure. 0:29:13.074,0:29:17.161 That's just reaching a very, very good typing speed. 0:29:19.059,0:29:19.775 There's one. 0:29:19.923,0:29:21.573 He already has the mic. 0:29:21.573,0:29:23.501 Somebody already has the microphone.[br] 0:29:28.427,0:29:31.806 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm hearing in this talk sort of -- 0:29:32.000,0:29:34.501 it sounds like there's two separate communities.[br] 0:29:34.501,0:29:38.409 There's the steno schools and closed source software[br]and closed source hardware, 0:29:38.409,0:29:44.932 and all of the stuff that goes around that point of view, [br]I guess, and then there's Plover 0:29:44.932,0:29:47.067 and the community that's built around that. 0:29:47.067,0:29:48.804 And I'm wondering... 0:29:48.804,0:29:51.971 What are their relative sizes? 0:29:51.971,0:29:53.259 Are they really separate communities? 0:29:53.404,0:29:56.563 And is Plover changing what is steno? 0:29:56.563,0:29:59.758 Or is steno still what it always has been? 0:29:59.758,0:30:03.649 And what's the social relationship between the two communities? 0:30:03.649,0:30:04.520 Are they getting along?[br] 0:30:04.520,0:30:07.191 Is there animosity? 0:30:07.191,0:30:07.684 HESKY: Can I take this one? 0:30:07.684,0:30:08.746 MIRABAI: Yeah, go for it. 0:30:08.746,0:30:11.464 HESKY: Mirabai will probably[br]have more to add to this, 0:30:11.464,0:30:19.981 but we've done at least one demo session at the local school,[br]for students to see, and Plover's still adding features 0:30:19.981,0:30:23.043 that some of the other software comes with. 0:30:23.043,0:30:27.585 I don't know how it's going to go in the future,[br]but the relationship between Plover 0:30:27.585,0:30:34.417 and the software companies and hardware companies[br]is between being ignored and being hostile. 0:30:38.863,0:30:41.619 AUDIENCE MEMBER: But there have been[br]some hardware donations, right? 0:30:41.745,0:30:42.708 HESKY: That's true.[br] 0:30:42.708,0:30:45.242 So what has happened is that, like every world, 0:30:45.242,0:30:50.016 there are underdogs, and the underdogs[br]have been far friendlier than the entrenched players. 0:30:50.016,0:30:54.000 Right, I should have acknowledged that some[br]of the companies have been friendly. 0:30:54.000,0:30:59.349 But, you know, the hardware, for example, 0:30:59.349,0:31:04.265 comes with protocols that have to be decoded[br]in order to work with them, 0:31:04.265,0:31:11.975 and several companies have been very aggressive[br]about not letting us get to the protocol. 0:31:11.975,0:31:16.007 And it's a very small world. 0:31:16.007,0:31:21.391 I think at this point I've spoken[br]to all the CEOs randomly, by email. 0:31:21.391,0:31:29.009 And I've heard that one person who volunteered [br]to work on one aspect of Plover 0:31:29.173,0:31:33.588 actually had a salesperson, like, target him. 0:31:33.588,0:31:35.907 It was a very bizarre story. 0:31:35.907,0:31:40.359 But (inaudible)... 0:31:40.359,0:31:43.300 MIRABAI: I can speak just in terms of numbers.[br] 0:31:43.300,0:31:49.386 I think there are around 30,000 active [br]professional stenographers in the country. 0:31:49.386,0:31:54.163 [br]There's around 250 users on the Plover mailing list, which -- 0:31:54.163,0:31:57.025 they're our most active and most engaged users. 0:31:57.025,0:31:58.995 I don't know exactly how many downloads there are. 0:31:58.995,0:32:07.203 So right now, the proportion of Plover users[br]to professional stenographers is very, very skewed. 0:32:07.203,0:32:10.994 But I think and hope that[br]that will change pretty drastically, 0:32:10.994,0:32:15.711 and honestly, from companies, [br]software and hardware vendors, 0:32:15.852,0:32:20.386 there's a certain wariness directed towards us,[br]but from professional stenographers, 0:32:20.386,0:32:26.356 by and large, there's been a lot of encouragement, [br]because a lot of people are worried that this technology 0:32:26.356,0:32:29.933 is vanishing, that the profession is dying.[br] 0:32:29.933,0:32:35.297 You know, the average age of a professional stenographer,[br]I heard somewhere, was something like 55 years old, 0:32:35.297,0:32:39.397 and as more and more people reach retirement age, 0:32:39.397,0:32:44.883 and fewer and fewer younger people are graduating,[br]it really leaves the profession vulnerable 0:32:45.012,0:32:53.323 to being co-opted by less accurate, less useful, non-verbatim[br]technologies to just fill the vacuum that's left behind 0:32:53.323,0:32:56.731 if there aren't any stenographers[br]to keep the place open. 0:32:56.731,0:33:02.839 So most professional stenographers that I've talked to are very excited about Plover and are very encouraging. 0:33:02.839,0:33:05.668 So we'll see what happens.[br] 0:33:05.668,0:33:17.840 CAMERON: We're going to have one more question,[br]and then we'll take a quick break. 0:33:17.840,0:33:19.093 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have a comment as a Deaf person. 0:33:19.093,0:33:22.697 I think that it's great for... 0:33:22.697,0:33:31.073 I think that Plover is great for people who are trying[br]to help people become stenographers 0:33:31.073,0:33:33.895 and encourage that profession, but as a deaf person, myself, 0:33:33.895,0:33:38.245 I think that it's frustrating sometimes[br]to find a good quality captionist. 0:33:38.245,0:33:42.985 And, just to let you know, captioning is not the same[br]as what they do in court. 0:33:42.985,0:33:45.432 Court reporting. 0:33:45.432,0:33:51.715 Court reporting is entirely different than captioning. 0:33:51.715,0:33:56.583 So, in my experience, court reporters -- 0:33:56.583,0:34:00.312 using both court reporters and captionists -- 0:34:00.312,0:34:05.653 they're completely different. 0:34:05.653,0:34:07.897 The training, I think, needs to be different.[br] 0:34:07.897,0:34:13.608 Those people who do captioning should be trained a different way for Deaf and hard of hearing people. 0:34:13.608,0:34:24.428 I also know that Plover, when you use it,[br]you still have to have some training,[br] 0:34:24.428,0:34:25.667 to have some professional training. 0:34:25.831,0:34:30.336 You shouldn't just have a person who, you know,[br]plays around with the program 0:34:30.486,0:34:32.849 and then becomes a professional captionist.[br] 0:34:32.849,0:34:35.570 It's the same thing with interpreters. 0:34:35.570,0:34:39.200 Just because someone knows sign language doesn't[br]mean that they would be a good-quality interpreter. 0:34:39.200,0:34:44.184 So I think it's important to note that to have[br]a good quality captionist that can work 0:34:44.184,0:34:47.082 with Deaf and hard of hearing people,[br]they need to be professionally trained. 0:34:48.316,0:34:50.917 MIRABAI: Can I just briefly respond,[br]really quickly? 0:34:50.917,0:34:53.919 Yeah, absolutely agree. 0:34:53.919,0:34:57.522 Of those 30,000 professional stenographers, 0:34:57.522,0:35:01.328 only about 300 in the country are certified captioners, 0:35:01.328,0:35:05.615 which I think is just staggering,[br]and it's very true that the skills are extremely different. 0:35:05.615,0:35:11.396 So Plover is actually the only software[br]that's specifically designed for live captioning. 0:35:11.396,0:35:13.007 It doesn't work with broadcast captioning. 0:35:13.007,0:35:14.600 It doesn't work with court reporting. 0:35:14.600,0:35:16.549 Unlike every other proprietary software out there, 0:35:16.549,0:35:18.521 which is specifically directed for court reporters. 0:35:18.521,0:35:21.226 So, as a live captioner myself, 0:35:21.226,0:35:28.518 I definitely want to sort of shepherd the potential captioning prodigies from trying steno out as an amateur, 0:35:28.518,0:35:30.785 and learning through Plover,[br]to get up there, 0:35:30.785,0:35:35.217 and then sort of giving them that final push[br]of captioning training, including ethics, 0:35:35.217,0:35:37.146 including, you know, Deaf Culture, 0:35:37.146,0:35:41.088 including all the sorts of things[br]that professional captioners need to know, 0:35:41.088,0:35:43.991 that you can't get just as an an amateur,[br]playing around with the software.[br] 0:35:43.991,0:35:48.644 So I feel very passionately about that,[br]and I feel like it's really vital to preserving my own career, 0:35:48.644,0:35:52.589 to help bring up the next generation of captioners via Plover. 0:35:54.298,0:35:55.881 CAMERON: Great. 0:35:55.881,0:35:58.857 Thank you so much, Hesky and Mirabai. 0:35:58.857,0:36:00.172 Please, a round of applause. 0:36:00.172,0:36:02.049 [ Applause ] 0:36:08.138,0:36:12.580 CAMERON: Coming up, we're going to have[br]John Schimmel and DIYAbility crew 0:36:12.580,0:36:19.169 talking about doing your own DIY hardware accessibility. 0:36:19.302,0:36:21.363 So let's take five minutes. 0:36:21.498,0:36:24.804 Introduce yourselves, please, [br]chat amongst yourselves, 0:36:24.925,0:36:29.726 and then we'll come back at 8:00[br]and pick up with John Schimmel. 0:36:29.726,0:36:30.613 Thanks!