0:00:10.807,0:00:14.051
What I want to talk about this morning [br]is a remarkable phenomenon:

0:00:14.241,0:00:17.003
that people not only talk to God

0:00:17.023,0:00:21.073
but they learn to experience[br]God is talking back.

0:00:21.962,0:00:25.682
Many, many Americans are involved -[br]and many other people -

0:00:25.683,0:00:29.684
are involved in what you may call [br]a renewalist spirituality,

0:00:29.756,0:00:31.200
a kind of spirituality

0:00:31.200,0:00:36.637
in which they want to experience God[br]intimately, personally and interactively;

0:00:36.911,0:00:40.533
they want to reach out[br]and touch the Divine here on earth.

0:00:40.776,0:00:43.636
I wanted to find out how they did that.

0:00:44.578,0:00:46.308
I am an anthropologist.

0:00:46.318,0:00:49.958
My job is to immerse myself[br]in the world that I've come to study

0:00:49.968,0:00:52.068
and to keep observing

0:00:52.105,0:00:53.917
so that to some degree,

0:00:53.917,0:00:57.817
I get a sense of what it would take[br]to become a native in that world.

0:00:58.207,0:01:00.177
Unlike Margret Mead and Gregory Bateson,

0:01:00.177,0:01:02.016
who are pictured here in New Guinea,

0:01:02.016,0:01:04.266
I did this work in America.

0:01:04.533,0:01:07.923
I spent two years [br]in the Renewalist Church in Chicago

0:01:07.935,0:01:11.387
and another two years[br]in one in the Bay Area.

0:01:11.387,0:01:13.189
I went to Sunday morning services.

0:01:13.189,0:01:16.392
I was a member of house group.[br]I was in a prayer circle.

0:01:16.392,0:01:17.622
I hung out with people.

0:01:17.622,0:01:18.637
I prayed with people.

0:01:18.637,0:01:22.692
I really wanted to know[br]how their God became real to them.

0:01:23.542,0:01:25.332
So let me begin by asking,

0:01:25.362,0:01:27.782
Who is God in a church like this?

0:01:27.802,0:01:31.842
Well, God is God, God is big, [br]God is mighty and holy and beyond,

0:01:32.322,0:01:34.952
but God is also a person among people.

0:01:35.222,0:01:37.232
The pastors in this kind of church

0:01:37.232,0:01:42.072
want you to experience God the way[br]the early disciples experienced Jesus.

0:01:42.244,0:01:43.454
They walked with Jesus.

0:01:43.454,0:01:44.624
They ate with Jesus.

0:01:44.624,0:01:45.814
They talked with Jesus.

0:01:45.814,0:01:47.104
He was their friend.

0:01:47.766,0:01:49.406
And these pastors

0:01:49.406,0:01:53.816
will tell you that you should put out[br]a cup of coffee for God,

0:01:54.027,0:01:55.787
you should have a beer with God,

0:01:55.787,0:01:57.767
go for a walk with God, hang out,

0:01:57.767,0:01:59.267
do the kind of thing with God

0:01:59.267,0:02:03.586
that you'd get to not do with anyone[br]who you wanted to know as a person.

0:02:03.626,0:02:07.133
And he cares about all the stuff [br]in your life, the little stuff:

0:02:07.133,0:02:09.233
where you want to go[br]in your summer vacation,

0:02:09.233,0:02:11.377
what shirt you want to wear [br]tomorrow morning.

0:02:11.377,0:02:13.507
You can talk to him about that.

0:02:14.543,0:02:15.743
So I wanted to know

0:02:15.753,0:02:20.023
how people learned to interact with God,[br]how they felt that God was speaking back.

0:02:20.023,0:02:21.593
And I knew that they learned

0:02:21.593,0:02:23.843
because newcomers[br]would come to these churches,

0:02:23.843,0:02:27.233
and they would say things like[br]"God doesn't talk to me,"

0:02:27.233,0:02:28.896
and then six to nine months later,

0:02:28.896,0:02:29.983
they would say,

0:02:29.983,0:02:31.803
"I recognize God's voice

0:02:31.803,0:02:35.073
the way I recognize[br]my mom's voice on the phone."

0:02:36.258,0:02:38.738
What I saw the church teach

0:02:38.758,0:02:40.723
was that you should think about your mind

0:02:40.723,0:02:41.733
not as a fortress

0:02:41.733,0:02:45.311
full of your own self-generated thoughts[br]and feelings and images,

0:02:45.331,0:02:46.911
but you should think of your mind

0:02:46.921,0:02:49.261
as a place where you were[br]going to meet God,

0:02:49.261,0:02:52.681
and that some of those thoughts[br]that you might have thought of as yours,

0:02:52.690,0:02:56.460
they were really God's thoughts [br]being given to you,

0:02:56.490,0:02:59.840
and your job was[br]to figure out who was God.

0:03:00.042,0:03:05.232
And in fact, people did talk in ways[br]that suggested that they would have -

0:03:06.576,0:03:09.646
as if they had experiences [br]that weren't their own.

0:03:09.926,0:03:12.736
A woman said to me,[br]"As I've started to pray in this church,

0:03:12.789,0:03:17.819
it feels like my mind is a screen[br]that images are projected on.

0:03:18.039,0:03:21.019
Somebody else is controlling[br]that clicker."

0:03:21.262,0:03:25.901
And of course, not all thoughts[br]were thought to be good candidates

0:03:25.931,0:03:28.041
for the kinds of things God would say.

0:03:28.481,0:03:30.960
People would look for thoughts[br]that stood out,

0:03:30.970,0:03:33.370
that were more spontaneous [br]than other thoughts,

0:03:33.370,0:03:36.730
thoughts that were louder,[br]that captured your attention.

0:03:37.740,0:03:42.546
One woman explaining to me[br]how she learned to discern God speaking

0:03:42.546,0:03:45.336
said that people were praying[br]over her one day,

0:03:45.336,0:03:49.596
and the phrase "Go to Kansas" [br]flashed into her mind.

0:03:50.573,0:03:52.163
So her parents live in Kansas.

0:03:52.163,0:03:54.833
She was kind of idly thinking [br]about visiting them,

0:03:54.833,0:03:57.590
but when this thought[br]just captured her attention,

0:03:57.675,0:04:01.155
it made her say, "You know,[br]makes me want to say,

0:04:01.155,0:04:02.935
'Where did that come from?'"

0:04:03.589,0:04:08.999
So you could imagine there would be risks[br]from this style of discerning God's voice.

0:04:09.004,0:04:10.189
(Laughter)

0:04:10.189,0:04:13.937
I did think people were[br]reasonably thoughtful about the process.

0:04:14.147,0:04:18.467
I also thought that the church[br]took care to minimize those risks.

0:04:18.621,0:04:20.941
One morning, the pastor said in church,

0:04:20.981,0:04:25.158
"You know, if you think God is telling you[br]to relax and calm down -

0:04:25.208,0:04:27.508
totally fine, take it as God.

0:04:27.668,0:04:30.673
If you think that God[br]is telling you to quit your job,

0:04:30.673,0:04:33.058
pack your bags and move to Los Angeles,

0:04:33.385,0:04:36.675
I want you to be praying[br]with every member of your house group,

0:04:36.675,0:04:39.076
I want you to be praying[br]with your prayer circle,

0:04:39.076,0:04:41.506
I want you to be praying with me

0:04:41.506,0:04:42.564
so that together,

0:04:42.564,0:04:46.636
this community can help you[br]to discern whether that's actually God

0:04:46.636,0:04:48.476
or just some of your own stuff

0:04:48.476,0:04:51.065
that's getting in the way[br]of your relationship."

0:04:51.065,0:04:52.515
(Laughter)

0:04:53.945,0:04:57.005
So what are people doing [br]when they're praying like this?

0:04:57.195,0:04:59.100
They're using their imagination

0:04:59.110,0:05:02.800
to do something that they do not[br]regard as imaginary.

0:05:02.930,0:05:06.200
If you're going to represent God,[br]if you're going to think about God,

0:05:06.200,0:05:07.860
you've got to use imagination

0:05:07.870,0:05:09.330
because God is invisible.

0:05:10.704,0:05:13.379
It's a very 21st-century thing

0:05:13.379,0:05:16.384
to draw the inference[br]that if you're using your imagination,

0:05:16.384,0:05:18.244
you are doing something false.

0:05:18.547,0:05:22.367
It turns out that using the inner senses,[br]using the imagination

0:05:22.367,0:05:25.947
has been part of the tradition[br]of Christian spirituality

0:05:25.947,0:05:27.807
for many, many years.

0:05:27.807,0:05:30.964
The medieval monastics[br]cultivated their inner senses

0:05:30.974,0:05:34.234
to make God more alive[br]and present to them.

0:05:34.514,0:05:36.764
That's what these Christians are doing.

0:05:36.764,0:05:39.064
They are not only[br]talking to God in their mind -

0:05:39.084,0:05:42.434
using their mind's ear to talk

0:05:42.434,0:05:45.064
and then to listen[br]to something that God might say -

0:05:45.064,0:05:49.323
they are imagining that they are sitting [br]on God's lap while they're doing that,

0:05:49.323,0:05:50.665
or they're on a park bench

0:05:50.665,0:05:53.645
and they're trying to feel God's arm[br]around their shoulders,

0:05:53.645,0:05:56.844
or they're in the throne room[br]and their cheek feels warm

0:05:56.844,0:06:01.614
because of the heat[br]of the blazing light from the throne,

0:06:01.614,0:06:03.967
or they're lighting a candle[br]to God in their mind

0:06:03.967,0:06:07.977
and they're trying to smell the scent[br]of the smoke as it wafts up to heaven.

0:06:09.138,0:06:13.461
My work demonstrates[br]that this cultivation of the inner senses,

0:06:13.691,0:06:15.164
it's a skill.

0:06:16.084,0:06:19.584
You get better at it over time,[br]and it changes you.

0:06:19.597,0:06:24.157
The people who do this, they say[br]that their mental imagery gets sharper,

0:06:24.172,0:06:28.692
they say that things they have to imagine[br]become more real to them,

0:06:28.699,0:06:30.635
and they are more likely to report

0:06:30.635,0:06:34.636
that God's voice would[br]sort of pop out into the world

0:06:34.636,0:06:37.266
and they'll hear it with their ears.

0:06:38.601,0:06:42.341
So just to give you a sense of the way [br]people talk about their own change:

0:06:42.832,0:06:44.262
This is a woman who said to me

0:06:44.262,0:06:48.308
that as she began to pray,[br]her images would get so vivid,

0:06:48.308,0:06:52.228
"Sometimes," she said, "it's almost[br]like a PowerPoint presentation."

0:06:52.978,0:06:55.295
And then she spontaneously[br]gave this example

0:06:55.295,0:06:59.515
of God's voice popping out into the world[br]so she could hear it with her ears.

0:07:00.412,0:07:02.702
So one morning, [br]she had wonderful devotions,

0:07:02.714,0:07:05.174
she felt great about[br]her prayer time with God,

0:07:05.174,0:07:08.833
she came out on to the street -[br]it was Chicago, it was freezing -

0:07:08.833,0:07:12.856
she was very grateful that God [br]brought the bus along really quickly,

0:07:12.856,0:07:14.949
she gets onto the bus,[br]she's reading a book,

0:07:14.949,0:07:17.083
she's getting all caught up in the book,

0:07:18.133,0:07:20.583
and she is missing her stop[br]to get off the bus.

0:07:20.583,0:07:23.694
And God says to her[br]in a way she can hear with her ears,

0:07:23.694,0:07:25.410
"Get off the bus!"

0:07:25.940,0:07:27.940
So she stops the bus driver, she gets off,

0:07:27.940,0:07:29.422
and she feels wonderful all day

0:07:29.422,0:07:32.026
that God has been[br]so intimately involved with her

0:07:32.026,0:07:35.222
as to enable her to make her stop.

0:07:36.518,0:07:39.238
What do we make[br]of those kinds of experiences?

0:07:39.575,0:07:42.405
It turns out that[br]these funny voices and visions,

0:07:42.731,0:07:45.191
they are less unusual than you'd imagine.

0:07:45.191,0:07:47.625
So depending on the way [br]that you ask the questions,

0:07:47.625,0:07:50.665
somewhere between 10%[br]of the general population

0:07:50.665,0:07:53.485
and 70% of the general population

0:07:53.485,0:07:56.485
will say they've had[br]one of these odd experiences,

0:07:56.485,0:08:01.232
like maybe even drifting off to sleep[br]and you hear your mom calling your name,

0:08:01.232,0:08:03.093
or maybe you walk into the living room

0:08:03.093,0:08:05.473
and you look at the cat,[br]the cat's on the couch,

0:08:05.473,0:08:08.013
you look again, you realize[br]the cat was never there.

0:08:09.283,0:08:10.962
These are not crazy;

0:08:11.132,0:08:13.606
they have a different[br]structure and pattern

0:08:13.626,0:08:15.763
than the kinds[br]of experiences people have

0:08:15.763,0:08:19.029
when, for example, they meet[br]the criteria for schizophrenia.

0:08:19.239,0:08:24.460
They tend to be rare, they're common,[br]and many people have them.

0:08:24.830,0:08:25.928
But when you ask people

0:08:25.928,0:08:27.980
whether they've ever had[br]such an experience,

0:08:27.980,0:08:31.570
they'll remember one, maybe two,[br]maybe a handful of these experiences.

0:08:31.620,0:08:33.000
They're really brief.

0:08:33.000,0:08:35.640
You see the wingtip of an angel[br]and then it's gone.

0:08:35.670,0:08:39.230
You hear a voice, four to six words,[br]and then it stops.

0:08:39.331,0:08:40.811
And they are positive.

0:08:40.811,0:08:45.811
I remember a woman who was in distress,[br]and she was driving down the street,

0:08:45.821,0:08:51.967
and she really heard God speak[br]out of the seat behind her in the car

0:08:51.967,0:08:55.097
and say, "I will always be with you."

0:08:55.400,0:08:56.850
It was a little freaky.

0:08:56.850,0:08:58.760
She pulled over to the side of the road.

0:08:58.760,0:09:02.830
But then she wept with joy[br]because, I mean, why would you not?

0:09:03.892,0:09:06.452
So these experiences can be powerful.

0:09:07.702,0:09:10.822
My work demonstrates [br]that they respond to training.

0:09:11.079,0:09:14.219
The more people practice[br]inner sense cultivation,

0:09:16.106,0:09:17.813
the more likely it is

0:09:17.813,0:09:20.955
that they'll say that they've had[br]one or more of these experiences,

0:09:20.955,0:09:25.158
and the more likely they are[br]to say that the experience was powerful.

0:09:26.248,0:09:29.403
While doing this work,[br]I ran an experiment.

0:09:29.403,0:09:31.218
I got a hundred people into my office.

0:09:31.218,0:09:32.226
We randomize them

0:09:32.226,0:09:36.208
into lectures on the Gospels[br]or this inner-sense-rich prayer.

0:09:36.368,0:09:40.648
And the rule was 30 minutes a day, [br]six days a week, for four weeks.

0:09:40.648,0:09:41.668
We brought them back;

0:09:41.668,0:09:43.759
we gave them a bunch[br]of computers experiments

0:09:43.759,0:09:45.468
and standardized questionnaires.

0:09:45.468,0:09:48.268
And turned out it was the folks[br]in the prayer condition

0:09:48.268,0:09:51.748
who, on average, reported[br]sharper mental images -

0:09:51.748,0:09:54.562
they reported more sense[br]of God's presence,

0:09:54.572,0:09:57.662
and they said that God was more present[br]as a person to them,

0:09:57.662,0:10:02.252
and they were more likely to say that[br]they had unusual spiritual experiences -

0:10:02.252,0:10:05.232
among them these voices and visions.

0:10:06.037,0:10:07.609
We were also able to demonstrate

0:10:07.639,0:10:11.019
that some people[br]are better at this kind of stuff,

0:10:11.041,0:10:14.381
independent of the amount of time [br]they spend praying.

0:10:14.391,0:10:18.710
We give people a standardized[br]questionnaire that asks them, in effect,

0:10:18.710,0:10:22.331
whether they feel comfortable[br]being adsorbed in their imagination.

0:10:22.592,0:10:26.102
Turns out that the more items [br]you say true to on that scale,

0:10:26.102,0:10:30.012
the more likely you are to say [br]that you experience God as a person,

0:10:30.031,0:10:31.783
the more likely you are to say

0:10:31.803,0:10:34.643
that you have a back-and-forth[br]relationship to God,

0:10:34.643,0:10:36.453
the more likely you are to say

0:10:36.453,0:10:40.643
that you've had one or more[br]of these odd voices and visions.

0:10:42.213,0:10:44.053
So what do we learn from this?

0:10:44.643,0:10:47.405
Well, the skeptic could say[br]that we learned that, you know,

0:10:47.405,0:10:50.116
Christians are just making it up[br]out of their imagination,

0:10:50.116,0:10:52.863
and that's what I have[br]always thought - end of story.

0:10:53.163,0:10:54.253
I actually don't think

0:10:54.253,0:10:56.925
that we learned anything[br]about the real nature of God

0:10:56.925,0:10:58.853
from these observations.

0:10:58.868,0:11:02.038
I don't think that social science[br]can answer that question.

0:11:02.270,0:11:04.627
There's also a Christian way[br]to ask this question,

0:11:04.627,0:11:09.374
which is, If God is always speaking,[br]how come not everybody hears?

0:11:11.390,0:11:14.440
I think what we learn[br]is that change is real,

0:11:14.617,0:11:17.237
that as people enter churches like these

0:11:17.237,0:11:19.977
and they begin to pay attention[br]to their mind in new ways,

0:11:19.977,0:11:22.787
they begin to pay attention[br]to their inner senses,

0:11:22.787,0:11:26.037
they really do have different experiences

0:11:26.057,0:11:28.817
that they associate[br]with the presence of God.

0:11:29.217,0:11:30.932
I came to think of churches

0:11:30.932,0:11:35.922
as offering a social invitation[br]to pay attention in particular ways,

0:11:35.932,0:11:40.586
and I thought of individuals[br]as having a psychological response

0:11:40.586,0:11:43.626
to the way that they trained[br]that attention.

0:11:45.056,0:11:48.696
I also think that we learned[br]that belief is not a thing.

0:11:48.817,0:11:50.934
Sometimes if you are a secular person

0:11:50.934,0:11:53.454
and you kind of look at somebody[br]who is a believer,

0:11:53.454,0:11:57.023
it is tempting to think that they have[br]this extra thing in their life -

0:11:57.023,0:11:59.823
it's like they've got[br]a piece of furniture in their house

0:11:59.823,0:12:01.683
that you don't have.

0:12:01.688,0:12:02.748
(Laughter)

0:12:02.903,0:12:06.213
I think these observations [br]suggest that in many ways,

0:12:06.213,0:12:09.103
the experience of God is made slowly,

0:12:09.103,0:12:11.922
through the way that you pay[br]attention to your world,

0:12:11.922,0:12:14.212
to the way that you pay[br]attention to your mind,

0:12:14.212,0:12:17.081
to your history of hearing God[br]and talking with God

0:12:17.081,0:12:20.041
and feeling more confident[br]that God is there.

0:12:20.191,0:12:24.861
I think these practices make[br]God more real to people,

0:12:24.861,0:12:27.787
and that has a palpable effect[br]on their life.

0:12:28.387,0:12:31.417
I also think this helps to explain[br]why these kinds of practices

0:12:31.453,0:12:34.673
are so much more appealing[br]in this kind of society.

0:12:35.052,0:12:39.942
Since the 1960s, there is[br]Christian mainstream liberal churches -

0:12:40.165,0:12:42.195
their membership has been plummeting.

0:12:42.195,0:12:47.085
Churches like these, they've exploded; [br]the congregations are huge.

0:12:47.085,0:12:49.845
I think it's because[br]of these kinds of practices.

0:12:49.951,0:12:52.371
I think that they make God more relevant.

0:12:52.711,0:12:55.831
You know, you're trying[br]to hear God speak -

0:12:56.131,0:12:59.531
God shifts from a 45-minute[br]engagement on Sunday Morning

0:12:59.531,0:13:01.983
to something you're doing[br]throughout the week.

0:13:01.983,0:13:04.743
These practices[br]make God more real to people,

0:13:04.877,0:13:07.047
they make God more alive.

0:13:07.049,0:13:08.336
And I think these churches,

0:13:08.336,0:13:11.076
by putting the emphasis[br]on these practices,

0:13:11.446,0:13:16.500
emphasize the experience of God[br]and emphasize God's mystery.

0:13:16.730,0:13:20.190
And that helps somebody[br]to hang on to a sense of God

0:13:20.190,0:13:25.516
in what they perceive[br]to be a skeptical, secular society.

0:13:26.454,0:13:30.069
And finally, I think we learned[br]something about our minds.

0:13:30.609,0:13:33.853
I think that we learned that the way[br]we pay attention to our minds

0:13:33.853,0:13:36.403
changes our mental experience.

0:13:36.403,0:13:37.641
It's so tempting to think

0:13:37.641,0:13:39.796
that the inner landscape[br]of your experience

0:13:39.796,0:13:42.390
is somehow set as the way that it is.

0:13:42.820,0:13:44.632
I think that we learned from this

0:13:44.632,0:13:47.662
that whether or not[br]you are a religious person,

0:13:47.662,0:13:50.002
whether or not you believe in God,

0:13:50.011,0:13:51.621
you are making choices

0:13:51.621,0:13:55.157
in the way that you use[br]your imagination and your inner senses,

0:13:55.157,0:13:58.408
and the choices you make will change you.

0:13:58.408,0:13:59.988
Thank you very much.

0:13:59.988,0:14:02.468
(Applause)