WEBVTT 00:00:10.567 --> 00:00:13.901 What I want to talk about this morning is remarkable phenomenon 00:00:14.031 --> 00:00:16.833 that people not only talk to God 00:00:16.853 --> 00:00:20.553 but they learn to experience God is talking back 00:00:22.012 --> 00:00:25.862 Many many Americans are involved, and many other people 00:00:25.884 --> 00:00:29.334 are involved, as you may call, in a renewalist spirituality - 00:00:29.866 --> 00:00:33.187 a kind of spirituality which they want to experience God 00:00:33.187 --> 00:00:36.497 intimately, personally and interactively; 00:00:36.781 --> 00:00:40.151 they want to reach out, touch the Divine here on earth 00:00:40.566 --> 00:00:43.186 I want to find out how they did that. 00:00:44.368 --> 00:00:45.688 I am anthropologist, 00:00:46.368 --> 00:00:49.788 my job is to immerse myself in the world I come to study, 00:00:50.168 --> 00:00:51.938 and to keep observing 00:00:52.105 --> 00:00:55.557 so that at some degree, I got a sense of what it take to 00:00:55.557 --> 00:00:57.407 become a Native in that world. 00:00:57.937 --> 00:01:00.127 Unlike Margret Mead & Rev. Gregory Bateson 00:01:00.127 --> 00:01:02.276 were pictured here in Papua New Guinea. 00:01:02.366 --> 00:01:03.976 I did this work in America. 00:01:04.383 --> 00:01:07.673 I spent two years in the renewalist church in Chicago, 00:01:07.985 --> 00:01:11.265 another two years in one of the Bay area. 00:01:11.387 --> 00:01:13.119 I went to Sunday Morning services. 00:01:13.119 --> 00:01:16.292 I was a member of House Group. I was in the prayer's circle. 00:01:16.292 --> 00:01:17.622 I hang out with people. 00:01:17.622 --> 00:01:18.812 I prayed with people. 00:01:18.812 --> 00:01:22.272 I really want to know how their God became real to them. 00:01:23.472 --> 00:01:25.502 So let me begin by asking, 00:01:25.502 --> 00:01:27.812 who is the God in the church like this? 00:01:27.832 --> 00:01:31.332 God is God, God is big, God is mighty, and holy and beyond, 00:01:32.532 --> 00:01:34.572 but God is also a person among people, 00:01:35.252 --> 00:01:39.222 The Pastor in this kind of church want you to experience God 00:01:39.222 --> 00:01:42.072 the way the earliest cycle of experience Jesus, 00:01:42.154 --> 00:01:43.454 They walked with Jesus. 00:01:43.454 --> 00:01:44.644 They ate with Jesus. 00:01:44.644 --> 00:01:46.024 They talked with Jesus, 00:01:46.024 --> 00:01:47.104 He was their friend, 00:01:47.766 --> 00:01:50.296 And these pastors will tell you that 00:01:51.456 --> 00:01:53.816 You should put out a cup of coffee for God, 00:01:53.967 --> 00:01:55.787 You should have a beer with God 00:01:55.787 --> 00:01:57.697 Go for a walk with God, hang out. 00:01:57.697 --> 00:01:59.397 Do the kind of thing with God 00:01:59.397 --> 00:02:03.207 that you get do with anyone who you want to know as a person. 00:02:03.226 --> 00:02:05.746 He cares about all the stuff in your life. 00:02:06.113 --> 00:02:08.953 the little stuff, where you want to go in your summer vacation; 00:02:08.953 --> 00:02:11.067 what shirt you want to wear tomorrow morning; 00:02:11.067 --> 00:02:12.907 you can talk to him about that. 00:02:14.573 --> 00:02:18.403 So I wanted to know how people learn to interact with God 00:02:18.403 --> 00:02:20.223 and how they felt God speaking back. 00:02:20.223 --> 00:02:23.803 I knew they have learnt because the newcomers came to this church, 00:02:23.803 --> 00:02:25.653 and they would say things like: 00:02:25.653 --> 00:02:27.133 "God does talk to me." 00:02:27.193 --> 00:02:29.723 and then six or eight months later they would say : 00:02:29.793 --> 00:02:34.393 "I recognize God's voice the way I recognize my mum's voice on the phone . " 00:02:36.078 --> 00:02:37.918 But I thought the church teach 00:02:38.368 --> 00:02:40.523 what you should think about your mind 00:02:40.523 --> 00:02:42.933 is not a fortress full of your own self-generated 00:02:42.933 --> 00:02:45.341 thoughts, feelings and images; 00:02:45.361 --> 00:02:49.001 you should think your mind is the place where you will be going to meet the God. 00:02:49.001 --> 00:02:52.681 and then some of thoughts you might think that was yours, 00:02:52.690 --> 00:02:56.280 They were really God's thoughts being given to you 00:02:56.280 --> 00:02:59.760 and your job is to figure out who is God. 00:02:59.782 --> 00:03:04.722 And in fact, people did talk in the way suggested they would have 00:03:06.276 --> 00:03:09.766 as they had experiences that weren't their own. 00:03:09.766 --> 00:03:12.736 A woman said to me as I start to pray in this church: 00:03:12.789 --> 00:03:17.569 "I feels like my mind is a screen that images were projected on. 00:03:18.079 --> 00:03:20.859 Somebody else is controlling that clicker." 00:03:20.972 --> 00:03:25.661 And of course, not all the thoughts would be good candidate 00:03:25.661 --> 00:03:27.501 for the kind of things God would say. 00:03:28.381 --> 00:03:30.840 People would look for thoughts that stood out, 00:03:30.970 --> 00:03:33.370 that was more spontaneous than another thoughts; 00:03:33.370 --> 00:03:36.270 thoughts were louder and captured your attention. 00:03:37.470 --> 00:03:42.380 One women was explaining to me how she learnt to discern God's speaking: 00:03:42.816 --> 00:03:45.476 so the people were praying over her one day, 00:03:45.476 --> 00:03:49.166 and the phrase "go to Kansas" flashed into her mind. 00:03:50.573 --> 00:03:52.303 So her parents was living in Kansas, 00:03:52.303 --> 00:03:54.793 she was kind of idly thinking about visiting them. 00:03:54.913 --> 00:03:57.490 but when this thought captured her attention, 00:03:57.675 --> 00:04:01.105 it made her say, you know, made her want to say, 00:04:01.105 --> 00:04:02.415 where that come from. 00:04:03.559 --> 00:04:08.609 So you could imagine there will be risks for this style of discerning God's voice. 00:04:09.739 --> 00:04:13.729 I didn't really think people were reasonably thoughtful about the process. 00:04:13.937 --> 00:04:17.937 I also thought the good church took care to minimize these risks. 00:04:18.621 --> 00:04:20.941 One morning, the pastor said in the church: 00:04:20.981 --> 00:04:24.998 "you know, if you think God are telling you to relax, calm down, 00:04:25.048 --> 00:04:27.998 it's totally fine. Take this from God. 00:04:27.998 --> 00:04:29.938 If you think God are telling you to 00:04:29.938 --> 00:04:32.578 quit your job, pack your bag and move to Los Angeles, 00:04:33.705 --> 00:04:36.645 I want you to pray with every member of the house group; 00:04:36.645 --> 00:04:39.205 I want you to pray with your prayer circle; 00:04:39.226 --> 00:04:41.196 I want you to pray with me. 00:04:41.206 --> 00:04:44.676 So together, this community could help you to discern 00:04:44.676 --> 00:04:46.786 whether that's actually God, 00:04:46.786 --> 00:04:50.466 or it's just some own stuff that's getting in the way of your relationship. 00:04:53.865 --> 00:04:56.515 So what are people doing when they're praying like this? 00:04:57.195 --> 00:05:00.120 They're using their imagination to do something 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:02.540 that they do not regard as imaginary. 00:05:03.130 --> 00:05:06.090 If you're going to represent God, you got to think about God, 00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:07.780 you got to use imagination. 00:05:07.870 --> 00:05:09.250 Because God isn't visible. 00:05:10.444 --> 00:05:14.444 It is very twenty-first-century thing to draw the inference 00:05:14.444 --> 00:05:16.454 that you're using your imagination, 00:05:16.454 --> 00:05:18.074 you are doing something false. 00:05:18.777 --> 00:05:22.367 It turns out using the inter-senses and using the imagination 00:05:22.367 --> 00:05:25.947 has been part of traditional Christian Spirituality 00:05:25.947 --> 00:05:27.757 for many many years. 00:05:27.977 --> 00:05:31.514 The Medieval Manassity cultivated their inter-senses to make God 00:05:31.514 --> 00:05:34.044 more a live presence to them. 00:05:34.514 --> 00:05:36.554 That's what these Christians're doing. 00:05:36.604 --> 00:05:39.064 They are not only talking to God in their mind, 00:05:39.084 --> 00:05:44.764 using their mind and ear to talk, to listen to something that God might say, 00:05:44.764 --> 00:05:49.353 they are imagining they are sitting on God's lap when they're doing that; 00:05:49.507 --> 00:05:51.595 or they're on a park bench, they are trying to feel 00:05:51.645 --> 00:05:53.545 God's arms around their shoulders; 00:05:53.666 --> 00:05:57.044 or they're in a throw room, their cheek feel warm 00:05:57.044 --> 00:06:01.234 because the heat is blazing like a throw; 00:06:01.457 --> 00:06:05.457 or they're lighting a candle to God, their minds are trying to smell 00:06:05.457 --> 00:06:07.567 the scent of smoke walks up to Heaven. 00:06:09.308 --> 00:06:14.518 My work demonstrates that this cultivation of inter-senses is a skill, 00:06:15.804 --> 00:06:19.364 you get better at it over time and it changes you. 00:06:19.557 --> 00:06:23.627 The people who do this - they say : their mental imagery gets sharper. 00:06:24.232 --> 00:06:28.292 They say that things they had to imagine become more real to them. 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:34.249 and there are more like reports that God's voice is sort of pop out to the world, 00:06:34.416 --> 00:06:36.456 and they hear with their ears. 00:06:38.761 --> 00:06:42.121 So just give you a sense of the way people talk about their own change. 00:06:42.592 --> 00:06:45.902 This is a women who said to me after she began to pray, 00:06:46.158 --> 00:06:48.158 her image gets so vivid, 00:06:48.238 --> 00:06:51.638 sometimes she said it's almost like a PowerPoint presentation. 00:06:52.728 --> 00:06:55.548 And then she spontaneously gave us an example of 00:06:55.655 --> 00:06:59.055 God's voice popping out into the world, so she could hear with her ears. 00:07:00.092 --> 00:07:02.742 So one morning, she had wonderful devotions 00:07:02.754 --> 00:07:05.174 she felt great about her prior time with God. 00:07:05.174 --> 00:07:08.613 She came out to the street, It was Chicago, it was freezing, 00:07:08.613 --> 00:07:12.633 she was very grateful that God brought this bus along really quickly. 00:07:12.673 --> 00:07:16.313 She gets on the bus, she's reading a book, she got all caught up on the book. 00:07:16.313 --> 00:07:20.473 She was near missing her stop to get off the bus 00:07:20.553 --> 00:07:23.653 and God senses to her in the way she hears with her ears 00:07:23.653 --> 00:07:25.000 "GET OFF THE BUS". 00:07:25.940 --> 00:07:27.940 So she stops the bus driver and she get off the bus. 00:07:27.940 --> 00:07:32.545 She felt wonderful all day that God's been so intimately involved with her 00:07:32.622 --> 00:07:34.432 to enable her to make her stop. 00:07:36.328 --> 00:07:38.758 How do we make from these kind of experiences? 00:07:39.575 --> 00:07:42.255 It turns out that these funny voices and visions 00:07:42.291 --> 00:07:44.541 are less unusual than you'd imagine. 00:07:45.468 --> 00:07:47.715 It's depending on the way you ask the questions somewhere 00:07:47.715 --> 00:07:53.265 between 10% of general population and 70% of general population 00:07:53.485 --> 00:07:56.485 would say that they had one of these audio experiences, 00:07:56.582 --> 00:08:00.772 like maybe even drifting off to a sleep, you hear your mum calling your name; 00:08:00.772 --> 00:08:02.973 or maybe walk to the living room, 00:08:02.973 --> 00:08:05.473 you look at the cat, the cat is on the couch, 00:08:05.473 --> 00:08:08.313 but look at it again, you realize the cat was never there. 00:08:09.063 --> 00:08:13.523 These are not crazy, they have different structure and pattern 00:08:13.782 --> 00:08:15.979 in the kind of experiences people have had, 00:08:16.059 --> 00:08:18.689 for example, they meet the category for schizophrenia. 00:08:18.990 --> 00:08:22.060 They tend to be rare, they're common and 00:08:22.060 --> 00:08:23.810 A lot and many people have them. 00:08:23.867 --> 00:08:27.867 But what we ask people whether they have such experiences 00:08:27.960 --> 00:08:31.660 They remember one or may be two, maybe a handful of these experiences, 00:08:31.660 --> 00:08:32.860 They're really brief. 00:08:32.860 --> 00:08:35.160 You see the wing tip of the Angle and then it's gone, 00:08:35.160 --> 00:08:38.760 You hear the voices or just the words and then it stops. 00:08:38.790 --> 00:08:40.270 And they are positive. 00:08:40.361 --> 00:08:44.361 and I remember a woman who was in distress, she was driving down the street. 00:08:44.361 --> 00:08:52.547 She really heard God speak out of the seat behind her in the car and say : 00:08:52.547 --> 00:08:54.297 "I will always be with you." 00:08:55.510 --> 00:08:58.450 It was a little freaky. She pulled over to the side of the road. 00:08:58.450 --> 00:09:01.780 And then she was wept with joy, because why would you not? 00:09:04.032 --> 00:09:06.482 So these experiences could be powerful. 00:09:07.082 --> 00:09:10.752 My work demonstrates they respond to training. 00:09:11.069 --> 00:09:14.159 The more people practice inter-sense cultivation, 00:09:14.251 --> 00:09:16.933 then more likely they will say it, 00:09:16.933 --> 00:09:20.605 the more likely they say that they had one or more these experiences. 00:09:20.925 --> 00:09:24.668 and more likely they say these experiences were powerful . 00:09:24.713 --> 00:09:28.993 while doing this work, I ran an experiment. 00:09:29.437 --> 00:09:31.397 I got hundred people into my office, 00:09:31.448 --> 00:09:34.158 we randomize them into lectures on the Gospels, or 00:09:34.158 --> 00:09:36.238 this inter-sense rich prayer. 00:09:36.238 --> 00:09:40.528 The rule was 30 minutes a day, six days a week for four weeks. 00:09:40.528 --> 00:09:43.818 We brought them back and gave them a bunch of computers experiments and 00:09:43.818 --> 00:09:45.318 standardized questionnaires. 00:09:45.318 --> 00:09:48.628 It turns out that these folks in the prayer condition 00:09:48.628 --> 00:09:51.428 who on average, reported sharper mental images, 00:09:51.428 --> 00:09:54.318 they reported more senses of God's presence 00:09:54.592 --> 00:09:57.662 and they said God was more present as a person to them 00:09:57.662 --> 00:10:02.312 and they were more likely to say that they had unusual spiritual experiences of, 00:10:02.312 --> 00:10:04.942 among them, these voices and visions. 00:10:05.897 --> 00:10:08.029 We are also able to demonstrate that 00:10:08.029 --> 00:10:11.079 some people are better at this kind of stuff, 00:10:11.111 --> 00:10:14.021 independent of the amount of time they spent praying. 00:10:14.051 --> 00:10:18.051 We gave people standardized questionnaire that asks them: 00:10:18.241 --> 00:10:22.141 in fact, will they feel comfortable being adsorbed in their imagination? 00:10:22.762 --> 00:10:26.022 It turns out there're more items you say true to on that scale, 00:10:26.022 --> 00:10:30.252 the more likely you're to say you are experiencing God as a person; 00:10:30.351 --> 00:10:34.501 the more likely you're to say you have a back-and-forth relationship with God; 00:10:34.643 --> 00:10:38.273 the more likely you're to say you had one or more 00:10:38.273 --> 00:10:40.283 these odd voices and visions.