1 00:00:10,567 --> 00:00:13,901 What I want to talk about this morning is remarkable phenomenon 2 00:00:14,031 --> 00:00:16,833 that people not only talk to God 3 00:00:16,853 --> 00:00:20,553 but they learn to experience God is talking back 4 00:00:22,012 --> 00:00:25,862 Many many Americans are involved, and many other people 5 00:00:25,884 --> 00:00:29,334 are involved, as you may call, in a renewalist spirituality - 6 00:00:29,866 --> 00:00:33,187 a kind of spirituality which they want to experience God 7 00:00:33,187 --> 00:00:36,497 intimately, personally and interactively; 8 00:00:36,781 --> 00:00:40,151 they want to reach out, touch the Divine here on earth 9 00:00:40,566 --> 00:00:43,186 I want to find out how they did that. 10 00:00:44,368 --> 00:00:45,688 I am anthropologist, 11 00:00:46,368 --> 00:00:49,788 my job is to immerse myself in the world I come to study, 12 00:00:50,168 --> 00:00:51,938 and to keep observing 13 00:00:52,105 --> 00:00:55,557 so that at some degree, I got a sense of what it take to 14 00:00:55,557 --> 00:00:57,407 become a Native in that world. 15 00:00:57,937 --> 00:01:00,127 Unlike Margret Mead & Rev. Gregory Bateson 16 00:01:00,127 --> 00:01:02,276 were pictured here in Papua New Guinea. 17 00:01:02,366 --> 00:01:03,976 I did this work in America. 18 00:01:04,383 --> 00:01:07,673 I spent two years in the renewalist church in Chicago, 19 00:01:07,985 --> 00:01:11,265 another two years in one of the Bay area. 20 00:01:11,387 --> 00:01:13,119 I went to Sunday Morning services. 21 00:01:13,119 --> 00:01:16,292 I was a member of House Group. I was in the prayer's circle. 22 00:01:16,292 --> 00:01:17,622 I hang out with people. 23 00:01:17,622 --> 00:01:18,812 I prayed with people. 24 00:01:18,812 --> 00:01:22,272 I really want to know how their God became real to them. 25 00:01:23,472 --> 00:01:25,502 So let me begin by asking, 26 00:01:25,502 --> 00:01:27,812 who is the God in the church like this? 27 00:01:27,832 --> 00:01:31,332 God is God, God is big, God is mighty, and holy and beyond, 28 00:01:32,532 --> 00:01:34,572 but God is also a person among people, 29 00:01:35,252 --> 00:01:39,222 The Pastor in this kind of church want you to experience God 30 00:01:39,222 --> 00:01:42,072 the way the earliest cycle of experience Jesus, 31 00:01:42,154 --> 00:01:43,454 They walked with Jesus. 32 00:01:43,454 --> 00:01:44,644 They ate with Jesus. 33 00:01:44,644 --> 00:01:46,024 They talked with Jesus, 34 00:01:46,024 --> 00:01:47,104 He was their friend, 35 00:01:47,766 --> 00:01:50,296 And these pastors will tell you that 36 00:01:51,456 --> 00:01:53,816 You should put out a cup of coffee for God, 37 00:01:53,967 --> 00:01:55,787 You should have a beer with God 38 00:01:55,787 --> 00:01:57,697 Go for a walk with God, hang out. 39 00:01:57,697 --> 00:01:59,397 Do the kind of thing with God 40 00:01:59,397 --> 00:02:03,207 that you get do with anyone who you want to know as a person. 41 00:02:03,226 --> 00:02:05,746 He cares about all the stuff in your life. 42 00:02:06,113 --> 00:02:08,953 the little stuff, where you want to go in your summer vacation; 43 00:02:08,953 --> 00:02:11,067 what shirt you want to wear tomorrow morning; 44 00:02:11,067 --> 00:02:12,907 you can talk to him about that. 45 00:02:14,573 --> 00:02:18,403 So I wanted to know how people learn to interact with God 46 00:02:18,403 --> 00:02:20,223 and how they felt God speaking back. 47 00:02:20,223 --> 00:02:23,803 I knew they have learnt because the newcomers came to this church, 48 00:02:23,803 --> 00:02:25,653 and they would say things like: 49 00:02:25,653 --> 00:02:27,133 "God does talk to me." 50 00:02:27,193 --> 00:02:29,723 and then six or eight months later they would say : 51 00:02:29,793 --> 00:02:34,393 "I recognize God's voice the way I recognize my mum's voice on the phone . " 52 00:02:36,078 --> 00:02:37,918 But I thought the church teach 53 00:02:38,368 --> 00:02:40,523 what you should think about your mind 54 00:02:40,523 --> 00:02:42,933 is not a fortress full of your own self-generated 55 00:02:42,933 --> 00:02:45,341 thoughts, feelings and images; 56 00:02:45,361 --> 00:02:49,001 you should think your mind is the place where you will be going to meet the God. 57 00:02:49,001 --> 00:02:52,681 and then some of thoughts you might think that was yours, 58 00:02:52,690 --> 00:02:56,280 They were really God's thoughts being given to you 59 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,760 and your job is to figure out who is God. 60 00:02:59,782 --> 00:03:04,722 And in fact, people did talk in the way suggested they would have 61 00:03:06,276 --> 00:03:09,766 as they had experiences that weren't their own. 62 00:03:09,766 --> 00:03:12,736 A woman said to me as I start to pray in this church: 63 00:03:12,789 --> 00:03:17,569 "I feels like my mind is a screen that images were projected on. 64 00:03:18,079 --> 00:03:20,859 Somebody else is controlling that clicker." 65 00:03:20,972 --> 00:03:25,661 And of course, not all the thoughts would be good candidate 66 00:03:25,661 --> 00:03:27,501 for the kind of things God would say. 67 00:03:28,381 --> 00:03:30,840 People would look for thoughts that stood out, 68 00:03:30,970 --> 00:03:33,370 that was more spontaneous than another thoughts; 69 00:03:33,370 --> 00:03:36,270 thoughts were louder and captured your attention. 70 00:03:37,470 --> 00:03:42,380 One women was explaining to me how she learnt to discern God's speaking: 71 00:03:42,816 --> 00:03:45,476 so the people were praying over her one day, 72 00:03:45,476 --> 00:03:49,166 and the phrase "go to Kansas" flashed into her mind. 73 00:03:50,573 --> 00:03:52,303 So her parents was living in Kansas, 74 00:03:52,303 --> 00:03:54,793 she was kind of idly thinking about visiting them. 75 00:03:54,913 --> 00:03:57,490 but when this thought captured her attention, 76 00:03:57,675 --> 00:04:01,105 it made her say, you know, made her want to say, 77 00:04:01,105 --> 00:04:02,415 where that come from. 78 00:04:03,559 --> 00:04:08,609 So you could imagine there will be risks for this style of discerning God's voice. 79 00:04:09,739 --> 00:04:13,729 I didn't really think people were reasonably thoughtful about the process. 80 00:04:13,937 --> 00:04:17,937 I also thought the good church took care to minimize these risks. 81 00:04:18,621 --> 00:04:20,941 One morning, the pastor said in the church: 82 00:04:20,981 --> 00:04:24,998 "you know, if you think God are telling you to relax, calm down, 83 00:04:25,048 --> 00:04:27,998 it's totally fine. Take this from God. 84 00:04:27,998 --> 00:04:29,938 If you think God are telling you to 85 00:04:29,938 --> 00:04:32,578 quit your job, pack your bag and move to Los Angeles, 86 00:04:33,705 --> 00:04:36,645 I want you to pray with every member of the house group; 87 00:04:36,645 --> 00:04:39,205 I want you to pray with your prayer circle; 88 00:04:39,226 --> 00:04:41,196 I want you to pray with me. 89 00:04:41,206 --> 00:04:44,676 So together, this community could help you to discern 90 00:04:44,676 --> 00:04:46,786 whether that's actually God, 91 00:04:46,786 --> 00:04:50,466 or it's just some own stuff that's getting in the way of your relationship. 92 00:04:53,865 --> 00:04:56,515 So what are people doing when they're praying like this? 93 00:04:57,195 --> 00:05:00,120 They're using their imagination to do something 94 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,540 that they do not regard as imaginary. 95 00:05:03,130 --> 00:05:06,090 If you're going to represent God, you got to think about God, 96 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:07,780 you got to use imagination. 97 00:05:07,870 --> 00:05:09,250 Because God isn't visible. 98 00:05:10,444 --> 00:05:14,444 It is very twenty-first-century thing to draw the inference 99 00:05:14,444 --> 00:05:16,454 that you're using your imagination, 100 00:05:16,454 --> 00:05:18,074 you are doing something false. 101 00:05:18,777 --> 00:05:22,367 It turns out using the inter-senses and using the imagination 102 00:05:22,367 --> 00:05:25,947 has been part of traditional Christian Spirituality 103 00:05:25,947 --> 00:05:27,757 for many many years. 104 00:05:27,977 --> 00:05:31,514 The Medieval Manassity cultivated their inter-senses to make God 105 00:05:31,514 --> 00:05:34,044 more a live presence to them. 106 00:05:34,514 --> 00:05:36,554 That's what these Christians're doing. 107 00:05:36,604 --> 00:05:39,064 They are not only talking to God in their mind, 108 00:05:39,084 --> 00:05:44,764 using their mind and ear to talk, to listen to something that God might say, 109 00:05:44,764 --> 00:05:49,353 they are imagining they are sitting on God's lap when they're doing that; 110 00:05:49,507 --> 00:05:51,595 or they're on a park bench, they are trying to feel 111 00:05:51,645 --> 00:05:53,545 God's arms around their shoulders; 112 00:05:53,666 --> 00:05:57,044 or they're in a throw room, their cheek feel warm 113 00:05:57,044 --> 00:06:01,234 because the heat is blazing like a throw; 114 00:06:01,457 --> 00:06:05,457 or they're lighting a candle to God, their minds are trying to smell 115 00:06:05,457 --> 00:06:07,567 the scent of smoke walks up to Heaven. 116 00:06:09,308 --> 00:06:14,518 My work demonstrates that this cultivation of inter-senses is a skill, 117 00:06:15,804 --> 00:06:19,364 you get better at it over time and it changes you. 118 00:06:19,557 --> 00:06:23,627 The people who do this - they say : their mental imagery gets sharper. 119 00:06:24,232 --> 00:06:28,292 They say that things they had to imagine become more real to them. 120 00:06:28,439 --> 00:06:34,249 and there are more like reports that God's voice is sort of pop out to the world, 121 00:06:34,416 --> 00:06:36,456 and they hear with their ears. 122 00:06:38,761 --> 00:06:42,121 So just give you a sense of the way people talk about their own change. 123 00:06:42,592 --> 00:06:45,902 This is a women who said to me after she began to pray, 124 00:06:46,158 --> 00:06:48,158 her image gets so vivid, 125 00:06:48,238 --> 00:06:51,638 sometimes she said it's almost like a PowerPoint presentation. 126 00:06:52,728 --> 00:06:55,548 And then she spontaneously gave us an example of 127 00:06:55,655 --> 00:06:59,055 God's voice popping out into the world, so she could hear with her ears. 128 00:07:00,092 --> 00:07:02,742 So one morning, she had wonderful devotions 129 00:07:02,754 --> 00:07:05,174 she felt great about her prior time with God. 130 00:07:05,174 --> 00:07:08,613 She came out to the street, It was Chicago, it was freezing, 131 00:07:08,613 --> 00:07:12,633 she was very grateful that God brought this bus along really quickly. 132 00:07:12,673 --> 00:07:16,313 She gets on the bus, she's reading a book, she got all caught up on the book. 133 00:07:16,313 --> 00:07:20,473 She was near missing her stop to get off the bus 134 00:07:20,553 --> 00:07:23,653 and God senses to her in the way she hears with her ears 135 00:07:23,653 --> 00:07:25,000 "GET OFF THE BUS". 136 00:07:25,940 --> 00:07:27,940 So she stops the bus driver and she get off the bus. 137 00:07:27,940 --> 00:07:32,545 She felt wonderful all day that God's been so intimately involved with her 138 00:07:32,622 --> 00:07:34,432 to enable her to make her stop. 139 00:07:36,328 --> 00:07:38,758 How do we make from these kind of experiences? 140 00:07:39,575 --> 00:07:42,255 It turns out that these funny voices and visions 141 00:07:42,291 --> 00:07:44,541 are less unusual than you'd imagine. 142 00:07:45,468 --> 00:07:47,715 It's depending on the way you ask the questions somewhere 143 00:07:47,715 --> 00:07:53,265 between 10% of general population and 70% of general population 144 00:07:53,485 --> 00:07:56,485 would say that they had one of these audio experiences, 145 00:07:56,582 --> 00:08:00,772 like maybe even drifting off to a sleep, you hear your mum calling your name; 146 00:08:00,772 --> 00:08:02,973 or maybe walk to the living room, 147 00:08:02,973 --> 00:08:05,473 you look at the cat, the cat is on the couch, 148 00:08:05,473 --> 00:08:08,313 but look at it again, you realize the cat was never there. 149 00:08:09,063 --> 00:08:13,523 These are not crazy, they have different structure and pattern 150 00:08:13,782 --> 00:08:15,979 in the kind of experiences people have had, 151 00:08:16,059 --> 00:08:18,689 for example, they meet the category for schizophrenia. 152 00:08:18,990 --> 00:08:22,060 They tend to be rare, they're common and 153 00:08:22,060 --> 00:08:23,810 A lot and many people have them. 154 00:08:23,867 --> 00:08:27,867 But what we ask people whether they have such experiences 155 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,660 They remember one or may be two, maybe a handful of these experiences, 156 00:08:31,660 --> 00:08:32,860 They're really brief. 157 00:08:32,860 --> 00:08:35,160 You see the wing tip of the Angle and then it's gone, 158 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,760 You hear the voices or just the words and then it stops. 159 00:08:38,790 --> 00:08:40,270 And they are positive. 160 00:08:40,361 --> 00:08:44,361 and I remember a woman who was in distress, she was driving down the street. 161 00:08:44,361 --> 00:08:52,547 She really heard God speak out of the seat behind her in the car and say : 162 00:08:52,547 --> 00:08:54,297 "I will always be with you." 163 00:08:55,510 --> 00:08:58,450 It was a little freaky. She pulled over to the side of the road. 164 00:08:58,450 --> 00:09:01,780 And then she was wept with joy, because why would you not? 165 00:09:04,032 --> 00:09:06,482 So these experiences could be powerful. 166 00:09:07,082 --> 00:09:10,752 My work demonstrates they respond to training. 167 00:09:11,069 --> 00:09:14,159 The more people practice inter-sense cultivation, 168 00:09:14,251 --> 00:09:16,933 then more likely they will say it, 169 00:09:16,933 --> 00:09:20,605 the more likely they say that they had one or more these experiences. 170 00:09:20,925 --> 00:09:24,668 and more likely they say these experiences were powerful . 171 00:09:24,713 --> 00:09:28,993 while doing this work, I ran an experiment. 172 00:09:29,437 --> 00:09:31,397 I got hundred people into my office, 173 00:09:31,448 --> 00:09:34,158 we randomize them into lectures on the Gospels, or 174 00:09:34,158 --> 00:09:36,238 this inter-sense rich prayer. 175 00:09:36,238 --> 00:09:40,528 The rule was 30 minutes a day, six days a week for four weeks. 176 00:09:40,528 --> 00:09:43,818 We brought them back and gave them a bunch of computers experiments and 177 00:09:43,818 --> 00:09:45,318 standardized questionnaires. 178 00:09:45,318 --> 00:09:48,628 It turns out that these folks in the prayer condition 179 00:09:48,628 --> 00:09:51,428 who on average, reported sharper mental images, 180 00:09:51,428 --> 00:09:54,318 they reported more senses of God's presence 181 00:09:54,592 --> 00:09:57,662 and they said God was more present as a person to them 182 00:09:57,662 --> 00:10:02,312 and they were more likely to say that they had unusual spiritual experiences of, 183 00:10:02,312 --> 00:10:04,942 among them, these voices and visions. 184 00:10:05,897 --> 00:10:08,029 We are also able to demonstrate that 185 00:10:08,029 --> 00:10:11,079 some people are better at this kind of stuff, 186 00:10:11,111 --> 00:10:14,021 independent of the amount of time they spent praying. 187 00:10:14,051 --> 00:10:18,051 We gave people standardized questionnaire that asks them: 188 00:10:18,241 --> 00:10:22,141 in fact, will they feel comfortable being adsorbed in their imagination? 189 00:10:22,762 --> 00:10:26,022 It turns out there're more items you say true to on that scale, 190 00:10:26,022 --> 00:10:30,252 the more likely you're to say you are experiencing God as a person; 191 00:10:30,351 --> 00:10:34,501 the more likely you're to say you have a back-and-forth relationship with God; 192 00:10:34,643 --> 00:10:38,273 the more likely you're to say you had one or more 193 00:10:38,273 --> 00:10:40,283 these odd voices and visions.