0:00:10.567,0:00:13.901 What I want to talk about this morning [br]is remarkable phenomenon 0:00:14.031,0:00:16.833 that people not only talk to God 0:00:16.853,0:00:20.553 but they learn to experience[br]God is talking back 0:00:22.012,0:00:25.862 Many many Americans are involved,[br]and many other people 0:00:25.884,0:00:29.334 are involved, as you may call, [br]in a renewalist spirituality - 0:00:29.866,0:00:33.187 a kind of spirituality[br]which they want to experience God 0:00:33.187,0:00:36.497 intimately, personally and interactively; 0:00:36.781,0:00:40.151 they want to reach out, [br]touch the Divine here on earth 0:00:40.566,0:00:43.186 I want to find out how they did that. 0:00:44.368,0:00:45.688 I am anthropologist, 0:00:46.368,0:00:49.788 my job is to immerse myself in[br]the world I come to study, 0:00:50.168,0:00:51.938 and to keep observing 0:00:52.105,0:00:55.557 so that at some degree,[br]I got a sense of what it take to 0:00:55.557,0:00:57.407 become a Native in that world. 0:00:57.937,0:01:00.127 Unlike Margret Mead &[br]Rev. Gregory Bateson 0:01:00.127,0:01:02.276 were pictured here in Papua New Guinea. 0:01:02.366,0:01:03.976 I did this work in America. 0:01:04.383,0:01:07.673 I spent two years [br]in the renewalist church in Chicago, 0:01:07.985,0:01:11.265 another two years[br]in one of the Bay area. 0:01:11.387,0:01:13.119 I went to Sunday Morning services. 0:01:13.119,0:01:16.292 I was a member of House Group.[br]I was in the prayer's circle. 0:01:16.292,0:01:17.622 I hang out with people. 0:01:17.622,0:01:18.812 I prayed with people. 0:01:18.812,0:01:22.272 I really want to know how[br]their God became real to them. 0:01:23.472,0:01:25.502 So let me begin by asking, 0:01:25.502,0:01:27.812 who is the God in the church like this? 0:01:27.832,0:01:31.332 God is God, God is big, [br]God is mighty, and holy and beyond, 0:01:32.532,0:01:34.572 but God is also a person among people, 0:01:35.252,0:01:39.222 The Pastor in this kind of church [br]want you to experience God 0:01:39.222,0:01:42.072 the way the earliest cycle of experience Jesus, 0:01:42.154,0:01:43.454 They walked with Jesus. 0:01:43.454,0:01:44.644 They ate with Jesus. 0:01:44.644,0:01:46.024 They talked with Jesus, 0:01:46.024,0:01:47.104 He was their friend, 0:01:47.766,0:01:50.296 And these pastors will tell you that 0:01:51.456,0:01:53.816 You should put out [br]a cup of coffee for God, 0:01:53.967,0:01:55.787 You should have a beer with God 0:01:55.787,0:01:57.697 Go for a walk with God, hang out. 0:01:57.697,0:01:59.397 Do the kind of thing with God 0:01:59.397,0:02:03.207 that you get do with anyone who [br]you want to know as a person. 0:02:03.226,0:02:05.746 He cares about all the stuff [br]in your life. 0:02:06.113,0:02:08.953 the little stuff, where you want to go [br]in your summer vacation; 0:02:08.953,0:02:11.067 what shirt you want to wear [br]tomorrow morning; 0:02:11.067,0:02:12.907 you can talk to him about that. 0:02:14.573,0:02:18.403 So I wanted to know how people[br]learn to interact with God 0:02:18.403,0:02:20.223 and how they felt God [br]speaking back. 0:02:20.223,0:02:23.803 I knew they have learnt because[br]the newcomers came to this church, 0:02:23.803,0:02:25.653 and they would say things like: 0:02:25.653,0:02:27.133 "God does talk to me." 0:02:27.193,0:02:29.723 and then six or eight months later[br]they would say : 0:02:29.793,0:02:34.393 "I recognize God's voice the way I [br]recognize my mum's voice on the phone . " 0:02:36.078,0:02:37.918 But I thought the church teach 0:02:38.368,0:02:40.523 what you should think about your mind 0:02:40.523,0:02:42.933 is not a fortress full of your own [br]self-generated 0:02:42.933,0:02:45.341 thoughts, feelings and images; 0:02:45.361,0:02:49.001 you should think your mind is the place [br]where you will be going to meet the God. 0:02:49.001,0:02:52.681 and then some of thoughts[br]you might think that was yours, 0:02:52.690,0:02:56.280 They were really God's thoughts being given to you 0:02:56.280,0:02:59.760 and your job is to figure out[br]who is God. 0:02:59.782,0:03:04.722 And in fact, people did talk in the way[br]suggested they would have 0:03:06.276,0:03:09.766 as they had experiences [br]that weren't their own. 0:03:09.766,0:03:12.736 A woman said to me as [br]I start to pray in this church: 0:03:12.789,0:03:17.569 "I feels like my mind is a screen that images were projected on. 0:03:18.079,0:03:20.859 Somebody else is controlling[br]that clicker." 0:03:20.972,0:03:25.661 And of course, not all the thoughts[br]would be good candidate 0:03:25.661,0:03:27.501 for the kind of things God would say. 0:03:28.381,0:03:30.840 People would look for thoughts [br]that stood out, 0:03:30.970,0:03:33.370 that was more spontaneous [br]than another thoughts; 0:03:33.370,0:03:36.270 thoughts were louder and[br]captured your attention. 0:03:37.470,0:03:42.380 One women was explaining to me how[br]she learnt to discern God's speaking: 0:03:42.816,0:03:45.476 so the people were praying[br]over her one day, 0:03:45.476,0:03:49.166 and the phrase "go to Kansas" [br]flashed into her mind. 0:03:50.573,0:03:52.303 So her parents was living in Kansas, 0:03:52.303,0:03:54.793 she was kind of idly thinking [br]about visiting them. 0:03:54.913,0:03:57.490 but when this thought [br]captured her attention, 0:03:57.675,0:04:01.105 it made her say, you know,[br]made her want to say, 0:04:01.105,0:04:02.415 where that come from. 0:04:03.559,0:04:08.609 So you could imagine there will be risks[br]for this style of discerning God's voice. 0:04:09.739,0:04:13.729 I didn't really think people were[br]reasonably thoughtful about the process. 0:04:13.937,0:04:17.937 I also thought the good church took[br]care to minimize these risks. 0:04:18.621,0:04:20.941 One morning, [br]the pastor said in the church: 0:04:20.981,0:04:24.998 "you know, if you think God are telling[br]you to relax, calm down, 0:04:25.048,0:04:27.998 it's totally fine.[br]Take this from God. 0:04:27.998,0:04:29.938 If you think God are telling you to 0:04:29.938,0:04:32.578 quit your job, pack your bag [br]and move to Los Angeles, 0:04:33.705,0:04:36.645 I want you to pray with[br]every member of the house group; 0:04:36.645,0:04:39.205 I want you to pray with[br]your prayer circle; 0:04:39.226,0:04:41.196 I want you to pray with me. 0:04:41.206,0:04:44.676 So together, this community[br]could help you to discern 0:04:44.676,0:04:46.786 whether that's actually God, 0:04:46.786,0:04:50.466 or it's just some own stuff that's[br]getting in the way of your relationship. 0:04:53.865,0:04:56.515 So what are people doing when[br]they're praying like this? 0:04:57.195,0:05:00.120 They're using their imagination[br]to do something 0:05:00.120,0:05:02.540 that they do not regard as imaginary. 0:05:03.130,0:05:06.090 If you're going to represent God,[br]you got to think about God, 0:05:06.120,0:05:07.780 you got to use imagination. 0:05:07.870,0:05:09.250 Because God isn't visible. 0:05:10.444,0:05:14.444 It is very twenty-first-century thing[br]to draw the inference 0:05:14.444,0:05:16.454 that you're using your imagination, 0:05:16.454,0:05:18.074 you are doing something false. 0:05:18.777,0:05:22.367 It turns out using the inter-senses and [br]using the imagination 0:05:22.367,0:05:25.947 has been part of traditional [br]Christian Spirituality 0:05:25.947,0:05:27.757 for many many years. 0:05:27.977,0:05:31.514 The Medieval Manassity cultivated [br]their inter-senses to make God 0:05:31.514,0:05:34.044 more a live presence to them. 0:05:34.514,0:05:36.554 That's what these Christians're doing. 0:05:36.604,0:05:39.064 They are not only talking to God[br]in their mind, 0:05:39.084,0:05:44.764 using their mind and ear to talk, to[br]listen to something that God might say, 0:05:44.764,0:05:49.353 they are imagining they are sitting [br]on God's lap when they're doing that; 0:05:49.507,0:05:51.595 or they're on a park bench,[br]they are trying to feel 0:05:51.645,0:05:53.545 God's arms around their shoulders; 0:05:53.666,0:05:57.044 or they're in a throw room, [br]their cheek feel warm 0:05:57.044,0:06:01.234 because the heat is blazing[br]like a throw; 0:06:01.457,0:06:05.457 or they're lighting a candle to God,[br]their minds are trying to smell 0:06:05.457,0:06:07.567 the scent of smoke walks up to Heaven. 0:06:09.308,0:06:14.518 My work demonstrates that this cultivation[br]of inter-senses is a skill, 0:06:15.804,0:06:19.364 you get better at it over time[br]and it changes you. 0:06:19.557,0:06:23.627 The people who do this - they say :[br]their mental imagery gets sharper. 0:06:24.232,0:06:28.292 They say that things they had to[br]imagine become more real to them. 0:06:28.439,0:06:34.249 and there are more like reports that God's voice is sort of pop out to the world, 0:06:34.416,0:06:36.456 and they hear with their ears. 0:06:38.761,0:06:42.121 So just give you a sense of the way [br]people talk about their own change. 0:06:42.592,0:06:45.902 This is a women who said to me after[br]she began to pray, 0:06:46.158,0:06:48.158 her image gets so vivid, 0:06:48.238,0:06:51.638 sometimes she said it's almost like[br]a PowerPoint presentation. 0:06:52.728,0:06:55.548 And then she spontaneously [br]gave us an example of 0:06:55.655,0:06:59.055 God's voice popping out into the world, [br]so she could hear with her ears. 0:07:00.092,0:07:02.742 So one morning, [br]she had wonderful devotions 0:07:02.754,0:07:05.174 she felt great about[br]her prior time with God. 0:07:05.174,0:07:08.613 She came out to the street,[br]It was Chicago, it was freezing, 0:07:08.613,0:07:12.633 she was very grateful that God [br]brought this bus along really quickly. 0:07:12.673,0:07:16.313 She gets on the bus, she's reading a book, [br]she got all caught up on the book. 0:07:16.313,0:07:20.473 She was near missing her stop[br]to get off the bus 0:07:20.553,0:07:23.653 and God senses to her in the way[br]she hears with her ears 0:07:23.653,0:07:25.000 "GET OFF THE BUS". 0:07:25.940,0:07:27.940 So she stops the bus driver [br]and she get off the bus. 0:07:27.940,0:07:32.545 She felt wonderful all day that [br]God's been so intimately involved with her 0:07:32.622,0:07:34.432 to enable her to make her stop. [br] 0:07:36.328,0:07:38.758 How do we make from [br]these kind of experiences? 0:07:39.575,0:07:42.255 It turns out that [br]these funny voices and visions 0:07:42.291,0:07:44.541 are less unusual than you'd imagine. 0:07:45.468,0:07:47.715 It's depending on the way [br]you ask the questions somewhere 0:07:47.715,0:07:53.265 between 10% of general population and[br]70% of general population 0:07:53.485,0:07:56.485 would say that they had one of [br]these audio experiences, 0:07:56.582,0:08:00.772 like maybe even drifting off to a sleep,[br]you hear your mum calling your name; 0:08:00.772,0:08:02.973 or maybe walk to the living room, 0:08:02.973,0:08:05.473 you look at the cat, [br]the cat is on the couch, 0:08:05.473,0:08:08.313 but look at it again, [br]you realize the cat was never there. 0:08:09.063,0:08:13.523 These are not crazy, [br]they have different structure and pattern 0:08:13.782,0:08:15.979 in the kind of experiences [br]people have had, 0:08:16.059,0:08:18.689 for example, [br]they meet the category for schizophrenia. 0:08:18.990,0:08:22.060 They tend to be rare, [br]they're common and 0:08:22.060,0:08:23.810 A lot and many people have them. 0:08:23.867,0:08:27.867 But what we ask people whether they have such experiences 0:08:27.960,0:08:31.660 They remember one or may be two,[br]maybe a handful of these experiences, 0:08:31.660,0:08:32.860 They're really brief. 0:08:32.860,0:08:35.160 You see the wing tip of the Angle and then it's gone, 0:08:35.160,0:08:38.760 You hear the voices or just the words[br]and then it stops. 0:08:38.790,0:08:40.270 And they are positive. 0:08:40.361,0:08:44.361 and I remember a woman who was in distress, [br]she was driving down the street. 0:08:44.361,0:08:52.547 She really heard God speak out of the seat[br]behind her in the car and say : 0:08:52.547,0:08:54.297 "I will always be with you." 0:08:55.510,0:08:58.450 It was a little freaky. [br]She pulled over to the side of the road. 0:08:58.450,0:09:01.780 And then she was wept with joy, [br]because why would you not? 0:09:04.032,0:09:06.482 So these experiences could be powerful. 0:09:07.082,0:09:10.752 My work demonstrates [br]they respond to training. 0:09:11.069,0:09:14.159 The more people practice[br]inter-sense cultivation, 0:09:14.251,0:09:16.933 then more likely they will say it, 0:09:16.933,0:09:20.605 the more likely they say that[br]they had one or more these experiences. 0:09:20.925,0:09:24.668 and more likely they say [br]these experiences were powerful . 0:09:24.713,0:09:28.993 while doing this work,[br]I ran an experiment. 0:09:29.437,0:09:31.397 I got hundred people into my office, 0:09:31.448,0:09:34.158 we randomize them into [br]lectures on the Gospels, or 0:09:34.158,0:09:36.238 this inter-sense rich prayer. 0:09:36.238,0:09:40.528 The rule was 30 minutes a day, [br]six days a week for four weeks. 0:09:40.528,0:09:43.818 We brought them back and gave them[br]a bunch of computers experiments and 0:09:43.818,0:09:45.318 standardized questionnaires. 0:09:45.318,0:09:48.628 It turns out that these folks[br]in the prayer condition 0:09:48.628,0:09:51.428 who on average,[br]reported sharper mental images, 0:09:51.428,0:09:54.318 they reported more senses of [br]God's presence 0:09:54.592,0:09:57.662 and they said God was more present [br]as a person to them 0:09:57.662,0:10:02.312 and they were more likely to say that[br]they had unusual spiritual experiences of, 0:10:02.312,0:10:04.942 among them, these voices and visions. 0:10:05.897,0:10:08.029 We are also able to demonstrate that 0:10:08.029,0:10:11.079 some people are better [br]at this kind of stuff, 0:10:11.111,0:10:14.021 independent of the amount of time [br]they spent praying. 0:10:14.051,0:10:18.051 We gave people standardized[br]questionnaire that asks them: 0:10:18.241,0:10:22.141 in fact, will they feel comfortable[br]being adsorbed in their imagination? 0:10:22.762,0:10:26.022 It turns out there're more items [br]you say true to on that scale, 0:10:26.022,0:10:30.252 the more likely you're to say [br]you are experiencing God as a person; 0:10:30.351,0:10:34.501 the more likely you're to say [br]you have a back-and-forth relationship with God; 0:10:34.643,0:10:38.273 the more likely you're to say [br]you had one or more 0:10:38.273,0:10:40.283 these odd voices and visions.