0:00:00.460,0:00:03.477 Whitney Pennington Rodgers:[br]Marcelo Mena is an environmentalist 0:00:03.501,0:00:04.652 and a scholar, 0:00:04.676,0:00:07.482 and he is the former[br]Minister of Environment for Chile. 0:00:07.506,0:00:08.738 Welcome, Marcelo. 0:00:09.590,0:00:12.812 Marcelo Mena: How are you doing, Whitney?[br]Thanks for the invitation. 0:00:12.836,0:00:13.988 WPR: Perfect. Great. 0:00:14.012,0:00:16.769 Of course, thank you so much[br]for being with us here today. 0:00:16.793,0:00:20.049 And you know, before we dive[br]into the future of climate action 0:00:20.073,0:00:21.715 in Chile and beyond, 0:00:21.739,0:00:24.574 I think it would be great for us[br]to talk about the present 0:00:24.598,0:00:29.942 and why Chile really represents[br]a country that is worth thinking about 0:00:29.966,0:00:31.985 when we talk about climate. 0:00:32.009,0:00:35.618 You know, recently there have been[br]lots of commendable actions 0:00:35.642,0:00:40.366 taken by your country[br]when we think about climate. 0:00:40.390,0:00:44.931 Chile recently committed[br]to net-zero emissions by 2050, 0:00:44.955,0:00:47.012 the first in the Americas to do this, 0:00:47.036,0:00:49.928 and that's especially notable[br]when you think about 0:00:49.952,0:00:54.116 how much of Chile's economy[br]really depends on carbon emissions: 0:00:54.140,0:00:56.847 mining and agriculture[br]and spaces like that. 0:00:56.871,0:00:59.374 So could you start a little bit[br]by just talking about 0:00:59.398,0:01:03.300 how would this even be possible[br]to get to net-zero emissions in 30 years, 0:01:03.324,0:01:05.947 and what would that mean for Chile? 0:01:07.140,0:01:09.927 MM: Mm-hmm. It was a very surreal image 0:01:09.951,0:01:14.561 when we saw Minister Schmidt,[br]the COP25 president, 0:01:14.585,0:01:17.245 Patricia Espinosa,[br]the UN head on climate change, 0:01:17.269,0:01:21.383 with masks, delivering this new NDC. 0:01:21.407,0:01:26.091 The important thing here is, things[br]that are hard to build require consensus, 0:01:26.115,0:01:30.704 but therefore to get rid[br]of that commitment, 0:01:30.728,0:01:32.456 you need to have another consensus. 0:01:32.480,0:01:33.645 This hasn't happened, 0:01:33.669,0:01:39.098 so the thing is, the reason why Chile[br]has a sort of vision towards mitigation 0:01:39.122,0:01:40.431 that's ambitious 0:01:40.455,0:01:43.042 is that we see that there's[br]a big economic benefit. 0:01:43.066,0:01:44.822 We have seen, we've witnessed, 0:01:44.846,0:01:48.133 what the renewable energy sector[br]has been able to do for investment, 0:01:48.157,0:01:50.329 for lowering energy costs. 0:01:50.353,0:01:52.802 And so therefore to reach this goal, 0:01:52.826,0:01:56.539 we will inevitably expand[br]to 100 percent renewable, 0:01:56.563,0:02:00.196 but we'll also transform our industry,[br]which is heavy on fossil fuels, 0:02:00.220,0:02:01.569 towards low emissions, 0:02:01.593,0:02:03.521 with the hydrogen economy kicking in, 0:02:03.545,0:02:06.115 with a recently launched[br]committee that I formed, 0:02:06.139,0:02:09.453 that Minister Jobet,[br]the Minister of Energy, set up. 0:02:09.477,0:02:13.753 And also energy efficiency[br]and a lot of capture, carbon capture. 0:02:13.777,0:02:17.015 We are endowed with[br]a lot of natural capital. 0:02:17.039,0:02:20.015 Taking care of that natural capital[br]and expanding plantations 0:02:20.039,0:02:22.787 will allow us to reach net-zero by 2050. 0:02:24.358,0:02:25.541 WPR: That's great. 0:02:25.565,0:02:28.572 And now it seems like Chile[br]has such a huge focus, then, 0:02:28.596,0:02:32.024 in thinking about renewable energy[br]and thinking about climate. 0:02:32.048,0:02:33.640 But this wasn't always the case. 0:02:33.664,0:02:35.448 Could you talk a little bit, I guess, 0:02:35.472,0:02:38.363 about the history of how Chile[br]arrived at this moment? 0:02:39.712,0:02:43.045 MM: Yeah, so in 2011, 2010, 0:02:43.069,0:02:45.698 we had an energy discussion 0:02:45.722,0:02:49.126 with incumbents saying the only way[br]we could solve our energy problems 0:02:49.150,0:02:52.412 will be through large coal[br]and large hydro in the Patagonia. 0:02:52.436,0:02:54.644 And that really polarized the discussion. 0:02:54.668,0:02:58.717 We got together as a community[br]after large protests 0:02:58.741,0:03:00.782 that triggered a lot of social movements, 0:03:00.806,0:03:02.221 and we started discussing 0:03:02.245,0:03:05.994 how we should be able[br]to do our energy going forward. 0:03:06.018,0:03:10.756 The population, public unrest,[br]set up almost 6,000 megawatts 0:03:10.780,0:03:13.344 of coal-fired power plants[br]to never be built. 0:03:13.368,0:03:17.016 And when the government,[br]Michelle Bachelet's government came in, 0:03:17.040,0:03:19.220 we pulled the plug[br]on the HidroAysén project, 0:03:19.244,0:03:22.156 which is a big hydro project[br]in the Patagonia. 0:03:22.180,0:03:25.836 And both of these conditions[br]enabled an opportunity 0:03:25.860,0:03:27.725 for renewable energy to set in. 0:03:27.749,0:03:29.301 We put in carbon taxes, 0:03:29.325,0:03:31.825 we put in environmental regulations, 0:03:31.849,0:03:36.976 and we set up an energy strategy[br]that we did, building on discussing 0:03:37.000,0:03:38.376 and looking at the data, 0:03:38.400,0:03:42.766 in which we thought that[br]the 70 percent renewable energy by 2050 0:03:42.790,0:03:45.045 was going to be a target[br]that we could agree on. 0:03:45.069,0:03:47.612 This target has been long surpassed. 0:03:47.636,0:03:50.996 Now we're thinking of reaching[br]that same goal by 2030. 0:03:53.346,0:03:57.545 WPR: And what you were saying[br]about social protests, 0:03:57.569,0:04:00.547 that's something that a lot of people[br]maybe have been following 0:04:00.571,0:04:03.969 news of what's going in Chile[br]are familiar with recent social protests, 0:04:03.993,0:04:07.390 and I think I'm curious about[br]how you see that factoring in 0:04:07.414,0:04:09.088 to climate action moving forward. 0:04:09.112,0:04:11.539 How might these social protests 0:04:11.563,0:04:13.939 play a role in what[br]climate action you see? 0:04:13.963,0:04:18.718 And, really, how is it possible for Chile[br]to be a leader in climate action 0:04:18.742,0:04:22.547 while also struggling[br]with some of these social issues? 0:04:23.839,0:04:25.282 MM: Well, the social issues, 0:04:25.306,0:04:28.406 which are very profound[br]and important to address, 0:04:28.430,0:04:31.987 caused, for example, COP25[br]to not be able to be held in Santiago 0:04:32.011,0:04:33.788 and to go to Madrid. 0:04:33.812,0:04:37.250 And this also shifted a whole bunch[br]of the discussions and announcements 0:04:37.274,0:04:38.429 that weren't done 0:04:38.453,0:04:39.933 and we were expecting to have. 0:04:39.957,0:04:41.349 But regardless of this, 0:04:41.373,0:04:45.456 the fact that we have this commitment[br]from the government today 0:04:45.480,0:04:48.137 shows that there's a resolution[br]to continue forward. 0:04:48.161,0:04:54.373 But really, the economic model of Chile[br]was brought into question, 0:04:54.397,0:04:59.198 because the environmental issues,[br]for example, are quite widespread, 0:04:59.222,0:05:02.932 and many times you have[br]large coal-fired power plants 0:05:02.956,0:05:05.670 being situated where people live 0:05:05.694,0:05:07.576 and with higher mortality rates. 0:05:07.600,0:05:10.667 Somebody who lives[br]where a power plant is installed 0:05:10.691,0:05:13.872 has twice the rate of death 0:05:13.896,0:05:16.048 in comparison to other people in Chile. 0:05:16.072,0:05:21.637 So the model of having many people[br]be impacted for the benefit of few 0:05:21.661,0:05:25.218 is something that caused[br]and triggered the social unrest. 0:05:25.242,0:05:27.689 And it goes into the economic model itself 0:05:27.713,0:05:31.250 of extracting, polluting,[br]impacting communities 0:05:31.274,0:05:34.268 that may not see the benefits[br]of these economic activities. 0:05:34.292,0:05:35.667 So while we've done a lot -- 0:05:35.691,0:05:41.275 we've come a long way, for example,[br]in securing a very emblematic agreement 0:05:41.299,0:05:43.776 to phase out coal-fired power plants -- 0:05:43.800,0:05:46.182 many people feel that this[br]wasn't done fast enough 0:05:46.206,0:05:48.722 and want this action to be brought faster. 0:05:49.952,0:05:54.922 WPR: And it sounds like having people[br]be the voice and the engine 0:05:54.946,0:05:56.274 behind making that happen 0:05:56.298,0:05:59.445 has really been part[br]of this historical thread 0:05:59.469,0:06:01.785 with climate action in Chile 0:06:01.809,0:06:05.514 and seems like it would really[br]lead things moving into the future. 0:06:07.285,0:06:11.358 MM: No, definitely, and we will continue.[br]Yes, go ahead. Sorry. 0:06:11.382,0:06:15.007 WPR: Go ahead. Please go ahead.[br]We have a little bit of a delay. 0:06:15.031,0:06:20.096 MM: Going forward, we're going to be ...[br]Starting out, we are doing well, 0:06:20.120,0:06:22.717 but I think we need[br]to double down on our commitments. 0:06:22.741,0:06:24.780 So even though[br]we have ministries involved, 0:06:24.804,0:06:27.115 we have civil society involved, 0:06:27.139,0:06:30.197 we need to bring in[br]the mainstream industry. 0:06:30.221,0:06:33.591 I think, for example, the mining sector[br]has a great opportunity 0:06:33.615,0:06:36.372 to be the solution[br]for the environmental issues, 0:06:36.396,0:06:39.693 because we provide the copper,[br]the cobalt, the lithium 0:06:39.717,0:06:43.556 that are required for solar PV panels,[br]for battery storage. 0:06:43.580,0:06:45.556 But we need to do this in a clean manner. 0:06:45.580,0:06:48.295 I think that's the biggest challenge[br]we're going to have 0:06:48.319,0:06:49.814 in the next 20 years ahead. 0:06:51.207,0:06:53.466 WPR: And sort of pivoting to the pandemic 0:06:53.490,0:06:55.820 and to thinking about[br]what's going on right now, 0:06:55.844,0:06:59.174 the entire world has obviously[br]been devastated by this crisis. 0:06:59.198,0:07:03.694 What have been some of the unique[br]challenges that Chile has faced 0:07:03.718,0:07:05.120 during this pandemic? 0:07:06.303,0:07:08.003 MM: Well, definitely, as anybody, 0:07:08.027,0:07:10.887 we are always struggling within 0:07:10.911,0:07:15.269 taking actions today to prevent[br]a deeper impact in the future. 0:07:15.293,0:07:17.871 And we started off pretty well. 0:07:17.895,0:07:19.415 We shut off schools. 0:07:19.439,0:07:23.689 We shut off different cities[br]and had a quarantine. 0:07:23.713,0:07:27.555 But we gave the wrong signals to people 0:07:27.579,0:07:29.552 and we didn't have a consistent effort, 0:07:29.576,0:07:32.906 and this has brought us to have[br]the highest infection rates per capita 0:07:32.930,0:07:34.500 in the world these days. 0:07:34.524,0:07:38.009 So this goes to show that --[br]the same parallels with climate change. 0:07:38.033,0:07:41.261 We need to take action now[br]to prevent deeper impact later. 0:07:41.285,0:07:43.928 And I think we need[br]to take the lesson of this 0:07:43.952,0:07:46.714 to continue with an effort, 0:07:46.738,0:07:50.230 because one thing is to announce[br]an ambitious NDC. 0:07:50.254,0:07:53.752 Another thing is to invest and do[br]the regulations that you require 0:07:53.776,0:07:55.125 to turn this into reality. 0:07:55.149,0:07:57.362 But there are some things[br]that are interesting. 0:07:57.386,0:07:58.647 The pollution in Santiago, 0:07:58.671,0:08:02.141 which is one of the most polluted capitals[br]historically in Latin America, 0:08:02.165,0:08:03.423 has dropped substantially. 0:08:03.447,0:08:06.349 The car-related emissions[br]are down almost 80 to 90 percent, 0:08:06.373,0:08:08.195 which is pretty substantive. 0:08:08.219,0:08:11.823 And we look at the example[br]of what's going on. 0:08:11.847,0:08:13.788 Harvard University showed a study 0:08:13.812,0:08:17.290 in which they showed higher[br]mortality rates for more polluted cities. 0:08:17.314,0:08:19.005 And this is also the case in Chile. 0:08:19.029,0:08:23.896 For every microgram of pollution, PM2.5,[br]there is an increase of the fatality rate 0:08:23.920,0:08:25.075 of nine percent. 0:08:25.099,0:08:28.654 But the thing is, we could also look back[br]at what we've achieved up to now. 0:08:28.678,0:08:30.725 Had we not taken[br]measures to clean the air, 0:08:30.749,0:08:34.047 as we've done in Chile[br]these last 20 years, 0:08:34.071,0:08:37.768 we would be talking about five times[br]more people would have died from COVID. 0:08:37.792,0:08:42.171 We have around 800 people[br]that have died due to COVID directly, 0:08:42.195,0:08:46.495 but this would have been much higher[br]had we not taken action. 0:08:46.519,0:08:48.861 And in fact, due to the lower pollution, 0:08:48.885,0:08:52.976 if we estimate and predict this[br]to the rest of the year, 0:08:53.000,0:08:56.222 we will have saved as many lives[br]reducing the pollution 0:08:56.246,0:08:57.949 as we have lost in COVID, 0:08:57.973,0:09:00.874 showing that there's a pandemic[br]that we also need to address, 0:09:00.898,0:09:05.295 which is the crisis on air pollution[br]that suffocates many cities in the world. 0:09:06.849,0:09:10.031 WPR: And it seems like that's probably[br]something that we're seeing 0:09:10.055,0:09:11.597 in other areas around the world. 0:09:11.621,0:09:15.325 As you're suggesting,[br]air pollution is a problem everywhere. 0:09:15.349,0:09:17.652 And I'm curious also 0:09:17.676,0:09:22.442 how these challenges[br]that you've mentioned, and maybe others, 0:09:22.466,0:09:24.928 might hinder or help 0:09:24.952,0:09:27.325 some of this progress[br]that you're hoping to make 0:09:27.349,0:09:28.926 towards climate action. 0:09:28.950,0:09:31.647 How do you see this factoring in[br]to some of the decisions 0:09:31.671,0:09:34.681 that might be made going forward[br]in Chile and beyond? 0:09:35.972,0:09:39.212 MM: OK, so we have a higher fatality rate[br]and more polluted cities, 0:09:39.236,0:09:41.716 and we have a climate action to carry out. 0:09:41.740,0:09:43.748 This is going to be a decisive decade, 0:09:43.772,0:09:48.467 in which we need to lay the groundwork[br]for our lower-emissions strategies. 0:09:48.491,0:09:53.302 So whatever we do today cannot lock us in[br]to an incompatible climate future. 0:09:53.326,0:09:57.249 We need to lay the groundwork[br]for this low-emissions transition. 0:09:57.273,0:10:00.402 So therefore, our green[br]recovery efforts need to be done, 0:10:00.426,0:10:03.006 as Kristalina [Georgieva] spoke last week, 0:10:03.030,0:10:07.202 has to be related to a green recovery[br]that creates jobs immediately, 0:10:07.226,0:10:11.023 that addresses the poverty issues[br]that we have on energy 0:10:11.047,0:10:12.356 today in southern Chile, 0:10:12.380,0:10:15.298 and we need to use this[br]for expanding renewable energy 0:10:15.322,0:10:18.827 and expanding the successful efforts[br]that we've done on electromobility. 0:10:18.851,0:10:23.774 Today, we have the largest fleet[br]of electric buses outside of China, 0:10:23.798,0:10:26.764 but we could actually[br]make this go even bigger, 0:10:26.788,0:10:31.668 because we've seen that the reductions[br]in cost have been almost 70 percent 0:10:31.692,0:10:33.437 in comparison to diesel buses. 0:10:33.461,0:10:35.974 So we should use[br]this opportunity to expand. 0:10:35.998,0:10:38.625 And multiple stakeholders are working. 0:10:38.649,0:10:41.568 We're working together[br]to call on the government 0:10:41.592,0:10:43.054 to do a green recovery, 0:10:43.078,0:10:45.637 to use the green bonds[br]that we've already issued 0:10:45.661,0:10:50.467 and under which we've gotten[br]really low rates for interest rates, 0:10:50.491,0:10:53.737 to do and fund cleaning the air, 0:10:53.761,0:10:55.118 cleaning the transportation 0:10:55.142,0:10:58.975 and laying the groundwork for[br]a cleaner tomorrow in the mining sector, 0:10:58.999,0:11:01.876 which is our biggest[br]challenge going forward. 0:11:02.669,0:11:06.378 WPR: And then as far as the way[br]that you think about 0:11:06.402,0:11:08.922 and conceptualize climate action, 0:11:08.946,0:11:12.351 have you personally[br]had any changes to your thinking, 0:11:12.375,0:11:15.987 just as a result of what[br]you're seeing through this pandemic? 0:11:17.348,0:11:19.733 MM: Yeah, I think we start looking around, 0:11:19.757,0:11:25.167 everybody had to struggle and find[br]that we could do much more with less, 0:11:25.191,0:11:27.894 and keeping a full economy 0:11:27.918,0:11:31.099 that requires you to buy[br]an extra t-shirt that you don't need, 0:11:31.123,0:11:35.164 the fact that we're using[br]three times more clothes 0:11:35.188,0:11:36.955 than we were maybe 20 years ago 0:11:36.979,0:11:40.595 shows that we are blowing up[br]an economy that requires us 0:11:40.619,0:11:42.814 to destroy the environment, in a way, 0:11:42.838,0:11:45.609 to continue forward. 0:11:45.633,0:11:48.793 And the food system is going to be[br]probably our biggest challenge, 0:11:48.817,0:11:53.500 and even though I've been working[br]with electric buses and electromobility 0:11:53.524,0:11:57.228 and just the more conventional mitigation, 0:11:57.252,0:11:59.199 I think our biggest cultural challenge 0:11:59.223,0:12:02.647 will be to talk about[br]how our food decisions 0:12:02.671,0:12:08.138 impact the way that we will have a future. 0:12:08.162,0:12:10.455 "Nature" just put out a report 0:12:10.479,0:12:14.237 that showed something that when we were[br]in the government, we had talked about. 0:12:14.261,0:12:16.018 When Chile was good in soccer, 0:12:16.042,0:12:22.148 we started going deeper[br]into the wintertime contests, 0:12:22.172,0:12:23.599 and we started winning games. 0:12:23.623,0:12:26.714 But to win those games,[br]we started doing a lot of barbecues, 0:12:26.738,0:12:29.097 and the paper that came out[br]showed something that, 0:12:29.121,0:12:30.702 when we explained this to people, 0:12:30.726,0:12:33.894 that you guys are messing up[br]the air with barbecues, 0:12:33.918,0:12:35.324 people thought we were crazy. 0:12:35.348,0:12:40.683 Well, the "Nature" report now shows[br]that we actually fouled the air 0:12:40.707,0:12:42.921 and destroyed the air,[br]annihilated the air, 0:12:42.945,0:12:45.134 because we wanted[br]to celebrate the soccer. 0:12:45.158,0:12:48.583 And we set this up to people,[br]and people thought we were crazy. 0:12:48.607,0:12:52.284 Now people acknowledge the fact[br]that the basic things that you could do, 0:12:52.308,0:12:54.469 such as the way that[br]you choose how to cook, 0:12:54.493,0:12:56.285 could actually impact your air. 0:12:56.309,0:13:00.847 So I think going forward these[br]cultural challenges that we need to do, 0:13:00.871,0:13:02.367 we need to tackle them head-on. 0:13:02.391,0:13:04.153 We should need to show the evidence. 0:13:04.177,0:13:06.667 Otherwise, we're just going[br]to be ignoring problems 0:13:06.691,0:13:08.747 and letting them[br]perpetuate for the future. 0:13:10.967,0:13:14.382 WPR: And, you know, for nations[br]who have not really prioritized climate 0:13:14.406,0:13:16.588 in the same way that Chile has, 0:13:16.612,0:13:19.506 are there lessons that[br]you think can be learned 0:13:19.530,0:13:22.433 from some of the choices[br]that Chile has made in recent years 0:13:22.457,0:13:24.123 that other nations can apply, 0:13:24.147,0:13:28.238 and how could folks in other countries[br]implement some of these strategies 0:13:28.262,0:13:30.257 that you implemented in Chile? 0:13:31.523,0:13:33.975 MM: So, many people in the US[br]and across the world 0:13:33.999,0:13:35.534 know about the Chilean sea bass. 0:13:35.558,0:13:39.772 The Chilean sea bass was overfished[br]and almost collapsed. 0:13:39.796,0:13:43.479 One of the things that we did under[br]the support from "National Geographic" 0:13:43.503,0:13:45.600 and with the leadership[br]of President Bachelet 0:13:45.624,0:13:47.336 was to expand marine protection, 0:13:47.360,0:13:50.632 from four percent of our oceans[br]to 43 percent within one government, 0:13:50.656,0:13:52.415 which is the largest leap. 0:13:52.439,0:13:56.923 There's only comparison to the US[br]during Obama in terms of protection. 0:13:56.947,0:14:01.413 And this is because we want[br]this population also to recover. 0:14:01.437,0:14:06.935 You know, when you[br]let the park stop fishing, 0:14:06.959,0:14:09.229 the overflow from the fishing 0:14:09.253,0:14:12.061 will actually increase[br]the biomass sixfold. 0:14:12.085,0:14:15.153 So I think one of the efforts[br]that we need to do 0:14:15.177,0:14:17.708 as we talk about[br]the biodiversity convention 0:14:17.732,0:14:19.527 that's going to happen this next year 0:14:19.551,0:14:22.606 is that we need to change[br]our relationship to the environment. 0:14:22.630,0:14:25.596 We need to protect[br]and conserve our ecosystems, 0:14:25.620,0:14:28.917 so they provide the services[br]that they do today. 0:14:28.941,0:14:32.679 Today, 96 percent of all mammals,[br]land mammals, 0:14:32.703,0:14:35.020 are humans or stuff humans eat. 0:14:35.044,0:14:38.322 Only four percent[br]of land mammals are wild. 0:14:38.346,0:14:40.771 When I heard that data,[br]from "National Geographic," 0:14:40.795,0:14:41.960 for the first time, 0:14:41.984,0:14:43.140 I couldn't believe it. 0:14:43.164,0:14:45.556 We've changed our relationship[br]with the planet, 0:14:45.580,0:14:48.674 and we're suffering these decisions 0:14:48.698,0:14:51.805 because we see zoonotic diseases --[br]not just coronavirus -- 0:14:51.829,0:14:53.936 spread time after time. 0:14:56.398,0:15:00.175 WPR: And we have Bruno here -- hi, Bruno[br]-- with a question from the community. 0:15:00.199,0:15:02.466 Bruno Giussani: Hi.[br]Absolutely. Hello, Marcelo. 0:15:02.490,0:15:05.015 This is a question from Melissa Mahoney. 0:15:05.039,0:15:09.092 She asks if you can expand on[br]what economic benefits 0:15:09.116,0:15:11.996 of net-zero emissions are. 0:15:12.020,0:15:15.619 And especially, could those benefits[br]be the same for Chile 0:15:15.643,0:15:17.390 and for other countries? 0:15:19.363,0:15:20.514 MM: Good. 0:15:20.538,0:15:22.678 For example, when I worked[br]in the World Bank, 0:15:22.702,0:15:25.370 we supported Chile to look into[br]the macroeconomic impacts 0:15:25.394,0:15:27.006 of the net-zero target. 0:15:27.030,0:15:31.679 And it was shown that Chile[br]will grow 4.4 percent more. 0:15:31.703,0:15:34.574 So we turned the risk of climate change, 0:15:34.598,0:15:37.466 and we turned it into an opportunity[br]of expanded growth. 0:15:37.490,0:15:40.669 This manifests in lower[br]transportation costs, 0:15:40.693,0:15:42.553 lower energy costs, 0:15:42.577,0:15:45.299 and this makes the economy[br]more competitive. 0:15:45.323,0:15:48.916 The costs of reaching the net-zero target 0:15:48.940,0:15:54.869 are much lower than the benefits[br]that we will have to reap. 0:15:54.893,0:15:57.472 And we're not even talking[br]about cleaner air benefits, 0:15:57.496,0:15:59.577 we're talking about[br]direct economic benefits 0:15:59.601,0:16:01.147 of having increased investments, 0:16:01.171,0:16:04.402 which is something that every country[br]will require in these years 0:16:04.426,0:16:06.277 to recover from the COVID crisis, 0:16:06.301,0:16:07.509 and lower energy costs. 0:16:07.533,0:16:08.833 So that's how it manifests, 0:16:08.857,0:16:10.890 and this is a consensus today 0:16:10.914,0:16:13.006 that we need to have more renewable energy 0:16:13.030,0:16:16.776 because this is the way that we've had[br]cleaner air and lower energy costs. 0:16:18.490,0:16:25.522 BG: There is another question[br]from someone in the audience, asking, 0:16:25.546,0:16:30.092 "Countries across Latin America[br]have very different attitudes on climate. 0:16:30.116,0:16:31.461 Can you comment on that?" 0:16:32.672,0:16:36.103 MM: So Pew Research Center[br]has been putting out reports 0:16:36.127,0:16:40.463 regarding what is the main[br]external threat that you have. 0:16:40.487,0:16:42.683 And in Europe, in the US, 0:16:42.707,0:16:45.483 the biggest threat[br]was either China or ISIS 0:16:45.507,0:16:47.726 or some external bellicose threat. 0:16:47.750,0:16:51.259 In Latin America and Africa,[br]it's climate change, number one, 0:16:51.283,0:16:54.543 and Chile is one of the highest,[br]with 86 percent of Chileans 0:16:54.567,0:16:58.174 saying that climate change[br]is the greatest external threat. 0:16:58.198,0:17:02.451 And this is also very high[br]across the region. 0:17:02.475,0:17:06.822 We could have populist governments[br]coming in, changing their priorities, 0:17:06.846,0:17:08.883 but the reality is, people are concerned, 0:17:08.907,0:17:11.606 because they see the threat[br]of climate change every day, 0:17:11.630,0:17:14.732 and regardless of whether[br]the national government believes in it, 0:17:14.756,0:17:15.915 climate change is real 0:17:15.939,0:17:18.837 and is causing impacts[br]and causing poverty in the region. 0:17:20.117,0:17:22.234 BG: Thank you, Marcelo.[br]Back to you, Whitney. 0:17:22.666,0:17:24.286 WPR: Thank you. Thank you, Bruno. 0:17:24.310,0:17:28.075 And Marcelo, just one last question[br]before we actually say goodbye, 0:17:28.099,0:17:31.732 which is just, knowing that you[br]were involved in the negotiations 0:17:31.756,0:17:32.978 for the Paris Agreement, 0:17:33.002,0:17:35.698 are there things that you take[br]from that experience 0:17:35.722,0:17:37.529 that you can apply to this moment 0:17:37.553,0:17:40.893 as we think about emerging[br]from this crisis 0:17:40.917,0:17:43.338 and coming out of the COVID-19 pandemic? 0:17:44.726,0:17:45.902 MM: Yes, 0:17:45.926,0:17:49.517 that there will always be a populist[br]that will be opposing climate action, 0:17:49.541,0:17:52.899 and the way to get at this[br]is to make the economic case, 0:17:52.923,0:17:54.544 so regardless of what happens, 0:17:54.568,0:17:58.104 there will be an economic case[br]for spending on renewable energy. 0:17:58.128,0:18:02.039 The US grew its renewable energy[br]investments around 40 percent last year. 0:18:02.063,0:18:04.060 In Brazil, it grew almost 10 percent. 0:18:04.084,0:18:07.004 And so therefore, if we are able[br]to align the economic goals 0:18:07.028,0:18:08.212 with climate goals, 0:18:08.236,0:18:10.749 you will be able to make this go forward. 0:18:10.773,0:18:14.885 There's the Network for Greening[br]the Financial System 0:18:14.909,0:18:16.910 that puts together central bankers. 0:18:16.934,0:18:20.814 The World Bank launched a coalition[br]of finance ministers for climate action. 0:18:20.838,0:18:22.932 These are great efforts 0:18:22.956,0:18:27.403 that will allow us to have the financial[br]system support climate action 0:18:27.427,0:18:29.510 because there's an economic benefit, 0:18:29.534,0:18:33.121 because it's important for you,[br]for your fiduciary responsibilities, 0:18:33.145,0:18:35.270 to disclose the risks you have, 0:18:35.294,0:18:37.445 both transitionally and physically. 0:18:37.469,0:18:38.926 And if we are able to do this, 0:18:38.950,0:18:41.189 regardless of what negotiations happen, 0:18:41.213,0:18:45.944 because there will always be[br]problems with the consensus, 0:18:45.968,0:18:48.635 you will continue to have[br]a resilient approach 0:18:48.659,0:18:50.496 because climate action will continue 0:18:50.520,0:18:53.461 because you can have[br]the economic system support this. 0:18:54.700,0:18:55.943 WPR: That's really great. 0:18:55.967,0:18:58.122 Thank you so much, Marcelo,[br]for being with us 0:18:58.146,0:19:00.208 to share your perspective[br]and your insight. 0:19:00.232,0:19:03.913 It's really great to sort of zoom in[br]on some of the things happening in Chile 0:19:03.937,0:19:06.770 and how that might apply[br]to all of us all over the world. 0:19:06.794,0:19:08.809 Thank you for joining us today. 0:19:08.833,0:19:09.258 MM: Thanks.