WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.143 Whitney Pennington Rodgers: Marcelo Mena is an environmentalist 00:00:03.143 --> 00:00:04.471 and a scholar, 00:00:04.471 --> 00:00:07.307 and he is the former Minister of Environment for Chile. 00:00:07.745 --> 00:00:09.631 Welcome, Marcelo. NOTE Paragraph 00:00:09.631 --> 00:00:12.366 Marcelo Mena: How are you doing, Whitney. Thanks for the invitation. NOTE Paragraph 00:00:12.366 --> 00:00:13.601 WPR: Perfect. Great. 00:00:13.601 --> 00:00:16.421 Of course, thank you so much for being with us here today. 00:00:16.421 --> 00:00:20.514 And you know, before we dive into the future of climate action 00:00:20.514 --> 00:00:21.899 in Chile and beyond, 00:00:21.899 --> 00:00:24.768 I think it would be great for us to talk about the present, 00:00:24.768 --> 00:00:30.450 and why Chile really represents a country that is worth thinking about 00:00:30.450 --> 00:00:32.181 when we talk about climate. 00:00:32.181 --> 00:00:35.785 You know, recently there have been lots of commendable actions 00:00:35.785 --> 00:00:39.528 taken by your country when we think about climate. 00:00:39.713 --> 00:00:45.100 Chile recently committed to net zero emissions by 2050, 00:00:45.100 --> 00:00:47.235 the first in the Americas to do this, 00:00:47.235 --> 00:00:50.062 and that's especially notable when you think about 00:00:50.062 --> 00:00:54.298 how much of Chile's economy really depends on carbon emissions: 00:00:54.298 --> 00:00:57.068 mining, agriculture, and spaces like that. 00:00:57.068 --> 00:00:59.810 So could you start a little bit by just talking about 00:00:59.810 --> 00:01:03.546 how would this even be possible to get to net zero emissions in 30 years, 00:01:03.546 --> 00:01:06.249 and what would that mean for Chile? NOTE Paragraph 00:01:07.267 --> 00:01:10.077 MM: It was a very surreal image 00:01:10.077 --> 00:01:12.762 when we saw Minister Schmidt, 00:01:12.762 --> 00:01:14.864 the COP25 president, 00:01:14.864 --> 00:01:17.466 Patricia Espinosa, the UN head on climate change, 00:01:17.466 --> 00:01:22.494 with masks delivering this new NDC. 00:01:22.494 --> 00:01:26.215 The important thing here is things that are hard to build require consensus, 00:01:26.215 --> 00:01:29.942 but therefore to get rid of that commitment, 00:01:29.942 --> 00:01:32.894 you need to have another consensus. 00:01:33.044 --> 00:01:34.463 This hasn't happened, 00:01:34.463 --> 00:01:37.672 so I think is, the reason why Chile has a sort of vision towards mitigation 00:01:37.672 --> 00:01:41.224 that's ambitious 00:01:41.224 --> 00:01:43.695 is that we see that there's a big economic benefit. 00:01:43.695 --> 00:01:47.972 We have seen, we've witnessed, 00:01:47.972 --> 00:01:49.256 what the renewable energy sector has been able to do for investment, 00:01:49.256 --> 00:01:50.490 for lowering energy costs, 00:01:50.490 --> 00:01:53.110 and so therefore to reach this goal 00:01:53.110 --> 00:01:56.729 we will inevitably expand to 100 percent renewable, 00:01:56.729 --> 00:02:00.373 but we'll also transform our industry, which is heavy on fossil fuels, 00:02:00.373 --> 00:02:01.857 towards low emissions, 00:02:01.857 --> 00:02:03.760 with the hydrogen economy kicking in, 00:02:03.760 --> 00:02:09.003 with a recently launched committee that I formed, that Minister Jobet, 00:02:09.003 --> 00:02:10.789 the Minister of Energy, set up. 00:02:10.789 --> 00:02:12.657 And also energy efficiency and a lot of capture, carbon capture. 00:02:12.657 --> 00:02:16.761 We are endowed with a lot of natural capital. 00:02:16.761 --> 00:02:19.888 Taking care of that natural capital and expanding plantations 00:02:19.888 --> 00:02:23.140 will allow us to reach net zero by 2050. NOTE Paragraph 00:02:23.524 --> 00:02:25.392 WPR: That's great. 00:02:25.392 --> 00:02:29.652 And now it seems like Chile has such a huge focus, then, 00:02:29.652 --> 00:02:32.405 in thinking about renewable energy and thinking about climate. 00:02:32.405 --> 00:02:33.557 But this wasn't always the case. 00:02:33.557 --> 00:02:35.075 Could you talk a little bit, I guess, 00:02:35.075 --> 00:02:38.484 about the history of how Chile arrived at this moment? NOTE Paragraph 00:02:39.586 --> 00:02:43.122 MM: Yeah, so in 2011, 2010, 00:02:43.122 --> 00:02:46.393 we had an energy discussion with incumbents 00:02:46.393 --> 00:02:49.704 saying the only way we could solve our energy problems 00:02:49.704 --> 00:02:53.054 will be through large coal and large hydro in Patagonia. 00:02:53.054 --> 00:02:54.989 And that really polarized the discussion. 00:02:54.989 --> 00:02:57.725 We got together as a community after large protests 00:02:57.725 --> 00:03:01.569 that triggered a lot of social movements, 00:03:01.569 --> 00:03:03.904 and we started discussing 00:03:03.935 --> 00:03:06.274 how we should be able to do our energy going forward. 00:03:06.274 --> 00:03:10.985 The population, public unrest, set up almost 6,000 megawatts 00:03:10.985 --> 00:03:13.438 of coal fired power plants to never be built. 00:03:13.438 --> 00:03:16.957 And when the government, Michelle Bachelet's government came in, 00:03:16.957 --> 00:03:19.532 we pulled the plug on HidroAysén project, 00:03:19.532 --> 00:03:22.402 which is a big hydro project in the Patagonia. 00:03:22.402 --> 00:03:26.988 And both of these conditions enabled an opportunity 00:03:26.988 --> 00:03:28.163 for renewable energy to be set in. 00:03:28.163 --> 00:03:30.049 We put in carbon taxes, 00:03:30.049 --> 00:03:33.619 we put in environmental regulations, 00:03:33.619 --> 00:03:37.322 and we set up an energy strategy that we did building on discussing 00:03:37.322 --> 00:03:39.188 and looking at the data 00:03:39.188 --> 00:03:42.967 in which we thought that the 70 percent renewable energy by 2050 00:03:42.967 --> 00:03:45.386 was going to be a target that we could agree on. 00:03:45.398 --> 00:03:47.454 This target has been long surpassed. 00:03:47.454 --> 00:03:52.350 Now we're thinking of reaching that same goal by 2030. NOTE Paragraph 00:03:52.900 --> 00:03:57.838 WPR: And what you were saying about social protests, 00:03:57.838 --> 00:04:01.532 that's something that a lot of people maybe have been following 00:04:01.532 --> 00:04:04.484 news of what's going in Chile are familiar with recent social protests, 00:04:04.484 --> 00:04:07.820 and I think I'm curious about how you see that factoring in 00:04:07.820 --> 00:04:09.595 to climate action moving forward. 00:04:09.595 --> 00:04:11.563 How might these social protests 00:04:11.563 --> 00:04:14.466 play a role in what climate action you see? 00:04:14.466 --> 00:04:18.683 And, really, how is it possible for Chile to be a leader in climate action 00:04:18.683 --> 00:04:22.547 while also struggling with some of these social issues? NOTE Paragraph 00:04:22.948 --> 00:04:26.151 MM: Well, the social issues, 00:04:26.151 --> 00:04:28.152 which are very profound and important to address, 00:04:28.152 --> 00:04:31.445 caused, for example, COP25 00:04:31.445 --> 00:04:33.064 to not be able to be held in Santiago, and to go to Madrid. 00:04:33.064 --> 00:04:36.000 And this also shifted a whole bunch of the discussions and announcements 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:39.197 that were done 00:04:39.197 --> 00:04:40.711 and we were expecting to have. 00:04:40.711 --> 00:04:41.879 But regardless of this, 00:04:41.879 --> 00:04:45.933 the fact that we have this commitment from the government today 00:04:45.933 --> 00:04:51.026 shows that there's a resolution to continue forward. 00:04:51.026 --> 00:04:51.844 But really the model, 00:04:51.844 --> 00:04:52.828 the economic model of Chile, 00:04:52.828 --> 00:04:54.397 was brought into question, 00:04:54.397 --> 00:04:58.474 because the environmental issues, for example, are quite widespread, 00:04:58.474 --> 00:05:02.644 and many times you have large coal-fired power plants 00:05:02.644 --> 00:05:05.730 being situated where people live 00:05:05.730 --> 00:05:08.183 and with higher mortality rates. 00:05:08.183 --> 00:05:11.026 Somebody who lives where a power plant is installed 00:05:11.026 --> 00:05:13.612 has twice the rate of death 00:05:13.612 --> 00:05:16.188 in comparison to other people in Chile. 00:05:16.188 --> 00:05:21.544 So the model of having many people be impacted for the benefit of few 00:05:21.809 --> 00:05:25.437 is something that caused and triggered the social unrest. 00:05:25.437 --> 00:05:28.222 And it goes into the economic model itself 00:05:28.222 --> 00:05:32.075 of extracting, colluding, impacting communities 00:05:32.075 --> 00:05:34.919 that may not see the benefits of these economic activities. 00:05:34.919 --> 00:05:37.167 So while we've done a lot, we've come a long way, 00:05:37.167 --> 00:05:39.259 for example in securing 00:05:39.259 --> 00:05:44.447 a very emblematic agreement to phase out coal-fired power plants, 00:05:44.447 --> 00:05:46.820 many people that this wasn't done fast enough 00:05:46.820 --> 00:05:49.491 and want this action to be brought faster. NOTE Paragraph 00:05:49.892 --> 00:05:55.109 WPR: And it sounds like having people be the voice and the engine 00:05:55.109 --> 00:05:56.752 behind making that happen 00:05:56.752 --> 00:06:00.928 has really been part of this historical thread 00:06:00.928 --> 00:06:02.483 with climate action in Chile 00:06:02.483 --> 00:06:05.666 and seems like it would really lead things moving into the future. NOTE Paragraph 00:06:06.235 --> 00:06:08.768 MM: No, definitely -- yes. Go ahead. Sorry. NOTE Paragraph 00:06:08.768 --> 00:06:12.462 WPR: Go ahead. Please go ahead. 00:06:12.731 --> 00:06:14.483 We have a little bit of a delay. NOTE Paragraph 00:06:14.483 --> 00:06:17.200 MM: Starting out, we are doing well, 00:06:17.200 --> 00:06:22.528 but I think we need to double down our commitments. 00:06:22.528 --> 00:06:25.094 So even though we have ministries involved, 00:06:25.094 --> 00:06:27.747 we have civil society involved, 00:06:27.747 --> 00:06:30.432 we need to bring in the mainstream industry. 00:06:30.432 --> 00:06:33.643 I think, for example, the mining sector has a great opportunity 00:06:33.643 --> 00:06:37.046 to be the solution for the environmental issues, 00:06:37.046 --> 00:06:40.615 because we provide the copper, the cobalt, the lithium 00:06:40.615 --> 00:06:44.159 that are required for solar PV panels, for battery storage. 00:06:44.159 --> 00:06:45.993 But we need to do this in a clean manner. 00:06:45.993 --> 00:06:48.379 I think that's the biggest challenge we're going to have 00:06:48.379 --> 00:06:50.064 in the next 20 years ahead. NOTE Paragraph 00:06:51.131 --> 00:06:53.774 WPR: And sort of pivoting to the pandemic 00:06:53.774 --> 00:06:56.110 and to thinking about what's going, 00:06:56.110 --> 00:06:59.413 right now the entire world has obviously been devastated by this crisis. 00:06:59.413 --> 00:07:03.406 What have been some of the unique challenges that Chile has faced 00:07:03.406 --> 00:07:05.392 during this pandemic? NOTE Paragraph 00:07:06.375 --> 00:07:08.027 MM: Well, definitely, as anybody, 00:07:08.027 --> 00:07:12.915 we are always struggling within 00:07:12.915 --> 00:07:15.791 taking actions today to prevent a deeper impact in the future. 00:07:15.791 --> 00:07:17.895 And we started off pretty well. 00:07:17.895 --> 00:07:19.529 We shut off schools. 00:07:19.529 --> 00:07:22.851 We shut off different cities and had a quarantine. 00:07:22.851 --> 00:07:28.027 But we gave the wrong signals to people 00:07:28.027 --> 00:07:29.679 and we didn't have a consistent effort, 00:07:29.679 --> 00:07:33.850 and this has brought us to have the highest infection rates per capita 00:07:33.850 --> 00:07:35.325 in the world these days. 00:07:35.325 --> 00:07:38.043 So this goes to show that, the same parallels with climate change. 00:07:38.043 --> 00:07:41.545 We need to take action now to prevent deeper impact later. 00:07:41.545 --> 00:07:44.595 And I think we need to take the lesson of this 00:07:44.595 --> 00:07:46.925 to continue with an effort, 00:07:46.925 --> 00:07:50.611 because one thing is to announce an ambitious NDC. 00:07:50.611 --> 00:07:53.864 Another thing is to invest and do the regulations that you require 00:07:53.864 --> 00:07:55.405 to turn this into reality. 00:07:55.405 --> 00:07:57.457 But there are some things that are interesting. 00:07:57.457 --> 00:07:58.758 The pollution in Santiago, 00:07:58.758 --> 00:08:01.728 which is one of the most polluted capitals historically in Latin America, 00:08:01.728 --> 00:08:03.480 has dropped substantially. 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:06.739 The car-related emissions are down almost 80 to 90 percent, 00:08:06.739 --> 00:08:08.774 which is pretty substantive. 00:08:08.774 --> 00:08:10.876 And we look at the example of what's going on. 00:08:10.876 --> 00:08:12.545 Harvard University showed a study in which they showed 00:08:12.545 --> 00:08:17.640 higher mortality rates for more polluted cities. 00:08:17.640 --> 00:08:19.225 And this is also the case in Chile. 00:08:19.225 --> 00:08:25.052 For every microgram of pollution, PM2.5, there is an increase of the fatality rate 00:08:25.052 --> 00:08:26.138 of nine percent. 00:08:26.138 --> 00:08:28.458 But the thing is, we could also look back at what we've achieved up to now. 00:08:28.458 --> 00:08:31.117 Had we not taken measures to clean the air, 00:08:31.117 --> 00:08:34.220 as we've done in Chile these last 20 years, 00:08:34.220 --> 00:08:38.140 we would be talking about five times more people would have died from COVID. 00:08:38.140 --> 00:08:42.334 We have around 800 people that have died due to COVID directly, 00:08:42.334 --> 00:08:46.369 but this would have been much higher had we not taken action. 00:08:46.636 --> 00:08:49.723 And in fact, due to the lower pollution, 00:08:49.723 --> 00:08:53.132 if we estimate and predict this to the rest of the year, 00:08:53.132 --> 00:08:56.436 we will have saved as many lives reducing the pollution 00:08:56.436 --> 00:08:58.238 as we have lost in COVID, 00:08:58.238 --> 00:09:01.223 showing that there's a pandemic that we also need to address, 00:09:01.223 --> 00:09:06.069 which is the crisis on air pollution that suffocates many cities in the world. NOTE Paragraph 00:09:06.368 --> 00:09:10.456 WPR: And it seems like that's probably something that we're seeing 00:09:10.456 --> 00:09:12.207 in other areas around the world. 00:09:12.207 --> 00:09:15.934 As you're suggesting, air pollution is a problem everywhere. 00:09:15.934 --> 00:09:17.970 And I'm curious also 00:09:17.970 --> 00:09:22.681 how these challenges that you've mentioned, and maybe others, 00:09:22.681 --> 00:09:25.166 might hinder or help 00:09:25.166 --> 00:09:27.484 some of this progress that you're hoping to make 00:09:27.484 --> 00:09:28.869 towards climate action. 00:09:28.869 --> 00:09:31.789 How do you see this factoring in to some of the decisions 00:09:31.789 --> 00:09:34.681 that might be made going forward in Chile and beyond? NOTE Paragraph 00:09:36.092 --> 00:09:39.546 MM: OK, so we have a higher fatality rate and more polluted cities, 00:09:39.546 --> 00:09:42.130 and we have a climate action to carry out. 00:09:42.130 --> 00:09:44.082 This is going to be a decisive decade, 00:09:44.082 --> 00:09:48.226 in which we need to lay the groundwork for our lower emissions strategies. 00:09:48.627 --> 00:09:53.081 So whatever we do today cannot lock us into an incompatible climate future. 00:09:53.548 --> 00:09:57.409 We need to lay the groundwork for this low emissions transition. 00:09:57.409 --> 00:10:00.561 So therefore, our green recovery efforts need to be done, 00:10:00.561 --> 00:10:02.380 as ?? spoke last week, 00:10:02.380 --> 00:10:06.040 has to be related to a green recovery that creates jobs immediately, 00:10:06.040 --> 00:10:08.658 that addresses the poverty issues that we have on energy 00:10:08.658 --> 00:10:12.145 today in southern Chile, 00:10:12.380 --> 00:10:15.322 and we need to use this for expanding renewable energy 00:10:15.322 --> 00:10:19.075 and expanding the successful efforts that we've done on electromobility. 00:10:19.075 --> 00:10:22.428 Today, we have the largest fleet of electric buses outside of China, 00:10:22.428 --> 00:10:26.555 but we could actually make this go even bigger, 00:10:26.788 --> 00:10:28.173 because we've seen 00:10:28.173 --> 00:10:31.959 that the reductions in cost have been almost 70 percent 00:10:31.959 --> 00:10:33.461 in comparison to diesel buses, 00:10:33.461 --> 00:10:36.220 so to use this opportunity to expand. 00:10:36.220 --> 00:10:38.873 And multiple stakeholders are working. 00:10:38.873 --> 00:10:41.391 We're working together to call on the government 00:10:41.391 --> 00:10:42.927 to do a green recovery, 00:10:42.927 --> 00:10:45.586 to use the green bonds that we've already issued 00:10:45.586 --> 00:10:50.340 and under which we've gotten really low rates for interest rates, 00:10:50.340 --> 00:10:53.126 to do and fund cleaning the air, 00:10:53.126 --> 00:10:55.051 cleaning the transportation, 00:10:55.051 --> 00:10:59.026 and laying the groundwork for a cleaner tomorrow in the mining sector, 00:10:59.026 --> 00:11:02.090 which is our biggest challenge going forward. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:02.090 --> 00:11:06.274 WPR: And then as far as the way that you think about 00:11:06.274 --> 00:11:08.653 and conceptualize climate action, 00:11:08.653 --> 00:11:12.090 have you personally had any changes to your thinking, 00:11:12.090 --> 00:11:15.951 just as a result of what you're seeing through this pandemic? NOTE Paragraph 00:11:17.618 --> 00:11:20.026 MM: Yeah, I think we start looking around. 00:11:20.026 --> 00:11:25.398 Everybody had to struggle and find that we could do much more with less, 00:11:25.398 --> 00:11:27.918 and keeping a full economy 00:11:27.918 --> 00:11:31.588 that requires you to buy an extra t-shirt that you don't need, 00:11:31.588 --> 00:11:35.331 the fact that we're using three times more clothes 00:11:35.331 --> 00:11:37.267 than we were maybe 20 years ago, 00:11:37.267 --> 00:11:40.619 shows that we are blowing up an economy that requires us 00:11:40.619 --> 00:11:42.838 to destroy the environment, in a way, 00:11:42.838 --> 00:11:45.280 to continue forward. 00:11:45.498 --> 00:11:48.817 And the food system is going to be probably our biggest challenge, 00:11:48.817 --> 00:11:53.524 and even though I've been working with electric buses and electromobility 00:11:53.524 --> 00:11:57.649 and just the more conventional mitigation, 00:11:57.649 --> 00:11:59.734 I think our biggest cultural challenge 00:11:59.734 --> 00:12:02.353 will be to talk about how our food decisions 00:12:02.353 --> 00:12:07.782 impact the way that we will have a future. 00:12:07.782 --> 00:12:12.569 "Nature" just out a report that showed when we were in the government, 00:12:12.569 --> 00:12:14.087 we had talked about. 00:12:14.087 --> 00:12:16.326 When Chile was good in soccer, 00:12:16.326 --> 00:12:21.922 we started going deeper into the wintertime contests, 00:12:22.172 --> 00:12:23.908 and we started winning games, 00:12:23.908 --> 00:12:27.210 but to win those games, we started doing a lot of barbecues, 00:12:27.210 --> 00:12:29.449 and the paper that came out showed something that, 00:12:29.449 --> 00:12:30.785 when we explained this to people, 00:12:30.785 --> 00:12:33.436 that you guys are messing up the air with barbecues, 00:12:33.436 --> 00:12:35.244 people thought we were crazy. 00:12:35.244 --> 00:12:37.747 Well, "Nature" now showed, the "Nature" report shows 00:12:37.747 --> 00:12:42.285 that we actually fouled the air and destroyed the air 00:12:42.285 --> 00:12:45.378 and annihilated the air because we wanted to celebrate the soccer. 00:12:45.378 --> 00:12:47.863 And we set this up to people, and people thought we were crazy. 00:12:47.863 --> 00:12:51.913 Now, people acknowledge the fact that the basic things that you could do, 00:12:51.913 --> 00:12:54.536 such as the way that you choose how to cook, 00:12:54.536 --> 00:12:56.595 could actually impact your air. 00:12:56.595 --> 00:13:00.935 So I think going forward these cultural challenges that we need to do, 00:13:00.935 --> 00:13:02.576 we need to tackle them head-on. 00:13:02.576 --> 00:13:04.361 We need to show the evidence. 00:13:04.361 --> 00:13:07.047 Otherwise, we're just going to be ignoring problems 00:13:07.047 --> 00:13:09.533 and letting them perpetuate for the future. NOTE Paragraph 00:13:10.967 --> 00:13:14.610 WPR: And, you know, for nations who have not really prioritized climate 00:13:14.610 --> 00:13:16.612 in the same way that Chile has, 00:13:16.612 --> 00:13:19.416 are there lessons that you think can be learned 00:13:19.416 --> 00:13:22.660 from some of the choices that Chile has made in recent years 00:13:22.660 --> 00:13:24.342 that other nations can apply, 00:13:24.342 --> 00:13:28.262 and how could folks in other countries implement some of these strategies 00:13:28.262 --> 00:13:30.515 that you implemented in Chile? NOTE Paragraph 00:13:31.833 --> 00:13:34.169 MM: So many people in the US and across the world 00:13:34.169 --> 00:13:35.571 know about the Chilean sea bass. 00:13:35.571 --> 00:13:39.954 The Chilean sea bass was overfished, and almost collapsed. 00:13:39.954 --> 00:13:43.638 One of the things that we did under the support from "National Geographic" 00:13:43.638 --> 00:13:45.597 and with the leadership of President Bachelet 00:13:45.597 --> 00:13:47.432 was to expand marine protection, 00:13:47.432 --> 00:13:50.868 from four percent our own oceans to 43 percent within one government, 00:13:50.868 --> 00:13:52.286 which is the largest. 00:13:52.286 --> 00:13:55.530 There's only comparison to the US during Obama in terms of protection. 00:13:55.530 --> 00:14:02.303 And this is because we want this population also to recover. 00:14:02.303 --> 00:14:06.997 You know, when you let the park, stop fishing, 00:14:06.997 --> 00:14:09.482 the overflow from the fishing 00:14:09.482 --> 00:14:12.085 will actually increase the biomass sixfold. 00:14:12.085 --> 00:14:14.804 So I think one of the efforts that we need to do 00:14:14.804 --> 00:14:17.930 as we talk about the biodiversity convention 00:14:17.930 --> 00:14:19.966 that's going to happen this next year 00:14:19.966 --> 00:14:23.136 is that we need to change our relationship to the environment. 00:14:23.136 --> 00:14:25.794 We need to protect and conserve our ecosystems, 00:14:25.794 --> 00:14:29.114 so they provide the services that they do today. 00:14:29.114 --> 00:14:31.683 Today, 96 percent of all mammals, 00:14:31.683 --> 00:14:34.918 land mammals, are humans or stuff humans eat. 00:14:34.918 --> 00:14:38.112 Only four percent of land mammals are wild. 00:14:38.346 --> 00:14:41.165 When I heard that data, from "National Geographic", 00:14:41.165 --> 00:14:42.583 for the first time, I couldn't believe it. 00:14:42.583 --> 00:14:46.076 We've changed our relationship with the planet, 00:14:46.076 --> 00:14:48.762 and we're suffering these decisions 00:14:48.762 --> 00:14:51.248 because we see zoonotic diseases, 00:14:51.248 --> 00:14:55.268 not just coronavirus, spread time after time. NOTE Paragraph 00:14:56.008 --> 00:14:58.262 WPR: And we have Bruno here -- 00:14:58.262 --> 00:15:00.763 hi, Bruno -- with a question from the community. NOTE Paragraph 00:15:00.763 --> 00:15:02.648 Bruno Giussani: Hi. Absolutely. Hello, Marcelo. 00:15:02.648 --> 00:15:05.234 This is a question from Melissa Mahoney. 00:15:05.234 --> 00:15:08.394 She asks if you "can expand on what economic benefits 00:15:08.394 --> 00:15:11.964 of net zero emissions are. 00:15:11.964 --> 00:15:15.350 And especially, could those benefits be the same for Chile 00:15:15.350 --> 00:15:17.694 and for other countries?" NOTE Paragraph 00:15:19.689 --> 00:15:20.961 MM: Good. 00:15:20.961 --> 00:15:22.831 For example, when I worked in the World Bank, 00:15:22.831 --> 00:15:25.522 we supported Chile to look into the macroeconomic impacts 00:15:25.522 --> 00:15:27.157 of the net zero target, 00:15:27.157 --> 00:15:31.829 and it was shown that Chile will grow 4.4 percent more. 00:15:31.829 --> 00:15:34.831 So we turned the risk of climate change 00:15:34.831 --> 00:15:37.490 and we turned it into an opportunity of expanded growth. 00:15:37.490 --> 00:15:40.693 This manifests in lower transportation costs, 00:15:40.693 --> 00:15:42.812 lower energy costs, 00:15:42.812 --> 00:15:45.572 and this makes the economy more competitive. 00:15:45.755 --> 00:15:49.174 The costs of reaching the net zero target 00:15:49.174 --> 00:15:55.063 are much lower than the benefits that we will have to reap. 00:15:55.247 --> 00:15:57.238 And we're not even talking about cleaner air benefits, 00:15:57.238 --> 00:15:59.657 we're talking about direct economic benefits 00:15:59.657 --> 00:16:01.393 of having increased investments, 00:16:01.393 --> 00:16:06.421 which is something that every country will require in these years 00:16:06.421 --> 00:16:09.490 to recover from the COVID crisis, 00:16:09.490 --> 00:16:11.308 and lower energy costs. 00:16:11.308 --> 00:16:13.810 So that's how it manifests, 00:16:13.810 --> 00:16:14.961 and this is a consensus today 00:16:14.961 --> 00:16:15.886 that we need to have more renewable energy 00:16:15.886 --> 00:16:19.173 because this is the way that we've had cleaner air and lower energy costs. 00:16:19.339 --> 00:16:24.077 BG: There is another question from someone in the audience 00:16:24.077 --> 00:16:25.382 asking, 00:16:25.382 --> 00:16:29.727 "Countries across Latin America have very different attitudes on climate. 00:16:30.227 --> 00:16:32.361 Can you comment on that?" NOTE Paragraph 00:16:32.863 --> 00:16:36.317 MM: So Pew Research Center has been putting out reports 00:16:36.317 --> 00:16:40.426 regarding what is the main external threat that you have. 00:16:40.676 --> 00:16:42.895 And in Europe, in the US, 00:16:42.895 --> 00:16:45.602 the biggest threat was either China or ISIS 00:16:45.602 --> 00:16:48.021 or some external ?? threat. 00:16:48.021 --> 00:16:51.842 In Latin America and Africa, it's climate change, number one, 00:16:51.842 --> 00:16:54.893 and Chile is one of the highest, with 86 percent of Chileans 00:16:54.893 --> 00:16:58.170 saying that climate change is the greatest external threat. 00:16:58.170 --> 00:17:02.475 And this is also very high across the region. 00:17:02.475 --> 00:17:07.066 We could have populist governments coming in, changing their priorities, 00:17:07.066 --> 00:17:09.385 but the reality is people are concerned, 00:17:09.385 --> 00:17:12.579 because they see the threat of climate change every day, 00:17:12.579 --> 00:17:14.613 and regardless of whether the national government believes in it, 00:17:14.613 --> 00:17:15.646 climate change is real 00:17:15.646 --> 00:17:19.016 and is causing impacts and causing poverty in the region. NOTE Paragraph 00:17:20.351 --> 00:17:22.460 BG: Thank you, Marcelo. Back to you, Whitney. NOTE Paragraph 00:17:22.460 --> 00:17:24.445 WPR: That's great. Thank you. Thank you Bruno. 00:17:24.445 --> 00:17:28.099 And Marcelo, just one last question before we actually say goodbye, 00:17:28.099 --> 00:17:31.875 which is just, knowing that you were involved in the negotiations 00:17:31.875 --> 00:17:33.494 for the Paris Agreement, 00:17:33.494 --> 00:17:36.180 are there things that you take from that experience 00:17:36.180 --> 00:17:37.981 that you can apply to this moment 00:17:37.981 --> 00:17:40.917 as we think about emerging from this crisis 00:17:40.917 --> 00:17:44.093 and coming out of the COVID-19 pandemic. NOTE Paragraph 00:17:44.093 --> 00:17:46.029 MM: Yes, 00:17:46.029 --> 00:17:49.799 that there will always be a populist that will be opposing climate action, 00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:53.074 and the way to get at this is is to make the economic case, 00:17:53.074 --> 00:17:54.909 so regardless of what happens, 00:17:54.909 --> 00:17:58.313 there will be an economic case for spending on renewable energy. 00:17:58.313 --> 00:18:02.157 The US grew its renewable energy investments around 40 percent last year. 00:18:02.157 --> 00:18:04.227 In Brazil, it grew almost 10 percent. 00:18:04.227 --> 00:18:07.461 And so therefore, if we are able to align the economic goals 00:18:07.461 --> 00:18:08.679 with climate goals, 00:18:08.679 --> 00:18:11.165 you will be able to make this go forward. 00:18:11.165 --> 00:18:14.970 There's the network of greening the financial system 00:18:14.970 --> 00:18:16.994 that puts together central bankers. 00:18:16.994 --> 00:18:20.897 The World Bank launched a coalition of finance ministers for climate action. 00:18:20.897 --> 00:18:22.956 These are great efforts 00:18:22.956 --> 00:18:25.792 that will allow us to have the financial system 00:18:25.792 --> 00:18:27.427 support climate action 00:18:27.427 --> 00:18:29.545 because there's an economic benefit, 00:18:29.545 --> 00:18:33.322 because it's important for you, for your fiduciary responsibilities, 00:18:33.322 --> 00:18:35.374 to disclose the risks you have, 00:18:35.374 --> 00:18:37.469 both transitionally and physically. 00:18:37.469 --> 00:18:39.377 And if we are able to do this, 00:18:39.377 --> 00:18:41.537 regardless of what negotiations happen, 00:18:41.537 --> 00:18:45.874 because there will always be problems with the consensus, 00:18:45.874 --> 00:18:48.659 you will continue to have a resilient approach 00:18:48.659 --> 00:18:50.677 because climate action will continue 00:18:50.677 --> 00:18:53.904 because you can have the economic system support this. NOTE Paragraph 00:18:54.188 --> 00:18:55.806 WPR: That's really great. 00:18:55.806 --> 00:18:58.258 Thank you so much, Marcelo, for being with us 00:18:58.258 --> 00:19:00.343 to share your perspective and your insight. 00:19:00.343 --> 00:19:04.237 It's really great to sort of zoom in on some of the things happening in Chile 00:19:04.237 --> 00:19:06.523 and how that might apply to all of us all over the world. 00:19:06.523 --> 00:19:08.108 Thank you for joining us today. NOTE Paragraph 00:19:08.108 --> 00:19:09.062 MM: Thanks.