0:00:00.000,0:00:03.143 Whitney Pennington Rodgers:[br]Marcelo Mena is an environmentalist 0:00:03.143,0:00:04.471 and a scholar, 0:00:04.471,0:00:07.307 and he is the former[br]Minister of Environment for Chile. 0:00:07.745,0:00:09.631 Welcome, Marcelo. 0:00:09.631,0:00:12.366 Marcelo Mena: How are you doing, Whitney.[br]Thanks for the invitation. 0:00:12.366,0:00:13.601 WPR: Perfect. Great. 0:00:13.601,0:00:16.421 Of course, thank you so much[br]for being with us here today. 0:00:16.421,0:00:20.514 And you know, before we dive[br]into the future of climate action 0:00:20.514,0:00:21.899 in Chile and beyond, 0:00:21.899,0:00:24.768 I think it would be great for us[br]to talk about the present, 0:00:24.768,0:00:30.450 and why Chile really represents[br]a country that is worth thinking about 0:00:30.450,0:00:32.181 when we talk about climate. 0:00:32.181,0:00:35.785 You know, recently there have been[br]lots of commendable actions 0:00:35.785,0:00:39.528 taken by your country[br]when we think about climate. 0:00:39.713,0:00:45.100 Chile recently committed[br]to net zero emissions by 2050, 0:00:45.100,0:00:47.235 the first in the Americas to do this, 0:00:47.235,0:00:50.062 and that's especially notable[br]when you think about 0:00:50.062,0:00:54.298 how much of Chile's economy[br]really depends on carbon emissions: 0:00:54.298,0:00:57.068 mining, agriculture, and spaces like that. 0:00:57.068,0:00:59.810 So could you start a little bit[br]by just talking about 0:00:59.810,0:01:03.546 how would this even be possible[br]to get to net zero emissions in 30 years, 0:01:03.546,0:01:06.249 and what would that mean for Chile? 0:01:07.267,0:01:10.077 MM: It was a very surreal image 0:01:10.077,0:01:12.762 when we saw Minister Schmidt, 0:01:12.762,0:01:14.864 the COP25 president, 0:01:14.864,0:01:17.466 Patricia Espinosa,[br]the UN head on climate change, 0:01:17.466,0:01:22.494 with masks delivering this new NDC. 0:01:22.494,0:01:26.215 The important thing here is things[br]that are hard to build require consensus, 0:01:26.215,0:01:29.942 but therefore to get rid[br]of that commitment, 0:01:29.942,0:01:32.894 you need to have another consensus. 0:01:33.044,0:01:34.463 This hasn't happened, 0:01:34.463,0:01:37.672 so I think is, the reason why Chile[br]has a sort of vision towards mitigation 0:01:37.672,0:01:41.224 that's ambitious 0:01:41.224,0:01:43.695 is that we see that there's[br]a big economic benefit. 0:01:43.695,0:01:47.972 We have seen, we've witnessed, 0:01:47.972,0:01:49.256 what the renewable energy sector[br]has been able to do for investment, 0:01:49.256,0:01:50.490 for lowering energy costs, 0:01:50.490,0:01:53.110 and so therefore to reach this goal 0:01:53.110,0:01:56.729 we will inevitably expand[br]to 100 percent renewable, 0:01:56.729,0:02:00.373 but we'll also transform our industry,[br]which is heavy on fossil fuels, 0:02:00.373,0:02:01.857 towards low emissions, 0:02:01.857,0:02:03.760 with the hydrogen economy kicking in, 0:02:03.760,0:02:09.003 with a recently launched committee[br]that I formed, that Minister Jobet, 0:02:09.003,0:02:10.789 the Minister of Energy, set up. 0:02:10.789,0:02:12.657 And also energy efficiency[br]and a lot of capture, carbon capture. 0:02:12.657,0:02:16.761 We are endowed with[br]a lot of natural capital. 0:02:16.761,0:02:19.888 Taking care of that natural capital[br]and expanding plantations 0:02:19.888,0:02:23.140 will allow us to reach net zero by 2050. 0:02:23.524,0:02:25.392 WPR: That's great. 0:02:25.392,0:02:29.652 And now it seems like Chile[br]has such a huge focus, then, 0:02:29.652,0:02:32.405 in thinking about renewable energy[br]and thinking about climate. 0:02:32.405,0:02:33.557 But this wasn't always the case. 0:02:33.557,0:02:35.075 Could you talk a little bit, I guess, 0:02:35.075,0:02:38.484 about the history of how Chile[br]arrived at this moment? 0:02:39.586,0:02:43.122 MM: Yeah, so in 2011, 2010, 0:02:43.122,0:02:46.393 we had an energy discussion[br]with incumbents 0:02:46.393,0:02:49.704 saying the only way we could solve[br]our energy problems 0:02:49.704,0:02:53.054 will be through large coal[br]and large hydro in Patagonia. 0:02:53.054,0:02:54.989 And that really polarized the discussion. 0:02:54.989,0:02:57.725 We got together as a community[br]after large protests 0:02:57.725,0:03:01.569 that triggered a lot of social movements, 0:03:01.569,0:03:03.904 and we started discussing 0:03:03.935,0:03:06.274 how we should be able[br]to do our energy going forward. 0:03:06.274,0:03:10.985 The population, public unrest,[br]set up almost 6,000 megawatts 0:03:10.985,0:03:13.438 of coal fired power plants[br]to never be built. 0:03:13.438,0:03:16.957 And when the government,[br]Michelle Bachelet's government came in, 0:03:16.957,0:03:19.532 we pulled the plug on HidroAysén project, 0:03:19.532,0:03:22.402 which is a big hydro project[br]in the Patagonia. 0:03:22.402,0:03:26.988 And both of these conditions[br]enabled an opportunity 0:03:26.988,0:03:28.163 for renewable energy to be set in. 0:03:28.163,0:03:30.049 We put in carbon taxes, 0:03:30.049,0:03:33.619 we put in environmental regulations, 0:03:33.619,0:03:37.322 and we set up an energy strategy[br]that we did building on discussing 0:03:37.322,0:03:39.188 and looking at the data 0:03:39.188,0:03:42.967 in which we thought that[br]the 70 percent renewable energy by 2050 0:03:42.967,0:03:45.386 was going to be a target[br]that we could agree on. 0:03:45.398,0:03:47.454 This target has been long surpassed. 0:03:47.454,0:03:52.350 Now we're thinking of reaching[br]that same goal by 2030. 0:03:52.900,0:03:57.838 WPR: And what you were saying[br]about social protests, 0:03:57.838,0:04:01.532 that's something that a lot of people[br]maybe have been following 0:04:01.532,0:04:04.484 news of what's going in Chile[br]are familiar with recent social protests, 0:04:04.484,0:04:07.820 and I think I'm curious about[br]how you see that factoring in 0:04:07.820,0:04:09.595 to climate action moving forward. 0:04:09.595,0:04:11.563 How might these social protests 0:04:11.563,0:04:14.466 play a role in what[br]climate action you see? 0:04:14.466,0:04:18.683 And, really, how is it possible for Chile[br]to be a leader in climate action 0:04:18.683,0:04:22.547 while also struggling[br]with some of these social issues? 0:04:22.948,0:04:26.151 MM: Well, the social issues, 0:04:26.151,0:04:28.152 which are very profound[br]and important to address, 0:04:28.152,0:04:31.445 caused, for example, COP25 0:04:31.445,0:04:33.064 to not be able to be held in Santiago,[br]and to go to Madrid. 0:04:33.064,0:04:36.000 And this also shifted a whole bunch[br]of the discussions and announcements 0:04:36.000,0:04:39.197 that were done 0:04:39.197,0:04:40.711 and we were expecting to have. 0:04:40.711,0:04:41.879 But regardless of this, 0:04:41.879,0:04:45.933 the fact that we have this commitment[br]from the government today 0:04:45.933,0:04:51.026 shows that there's a resolution[br]to continue forward. 0:04:51.026,0:04:51.844 But really the model, 0:04:51.844,0:04:52.828 the economic model of Chile, 0:04:52.828,0:04:54.397 was brought into question, 0:04:54.397,0:04:58.474 because the environmental issues,[br]for example, are quite widespread, 0:04:58.474,0:05:02.644 and many times you have[br]large coal-fired power plants 0:05:02.644,0:05:05.730 being situated where people live 0:05:05.730,0:05:08.183 and with higher mortality rates. 0:05:08.183,0:05:11.026 Somebody who lives[br]where a power plant is installed 0:05:11.026,0:05:13.612 has twice the rate of death 0:05:13.612,0:05:16.188 in comparison to other people in Chile. 0:05:16.188,0:05:21.544 So the model of having many people[br]be impacted for the benefit of few 0:05:21.809,0:05:25.437 is something that caused[br]and triggered the social unrest. 0:05:25.437,0:05:28.222 And it goes into the economic model itself 0:05:28.222,0:05:32.075 of extracting, colluding,[br]impacting communities 0:05:32.075,0:05:34.919 that may not see the benefits[br]of these economic activities. 0:05:34.919,0:05:37.167 So while we've done a lot,[br]we've come a long way, 0:05:37.167,0:05:39.259 for example in securing 0:05:39.259,0:05:44.447 a very emblematic agreement[br]to phase out coal-fired power plants, 0:05:44.447,0:05:46.820 many people that this[br]wasn't done fast enough 0:05:46.820,0:05:49.491 and want this action to be brought faster. 0:05:49.892,0:05:55.109 WPR: And it sounds like having people[br]be the voice and the engine 0:05:55.109,0:05:56.752 behind making that happen 0:05:56.752,0:06:00.928 has really been part[br]of this historical thread 0:06:00.928,0:06:02.483 with climate action in Chile 0:06:02.483,0:06:05.666 and seems like it would really[br]lead things moving into the future. 0:06:06.235,0:06:08.768 MM: No, definitely -- yes.[br]Go ahead. Sorry. 0:06:08.768,0:06:12.462 WPR: Go ahead. Please go ahead. 0:06:12.731,0:06:14.483 We have a little bit of a delay. 0:06:14.483,0:06:17.200 MM: Starting out, we are doing well, 0:06:17.200,0:06:22.528 but I think we need[br]to double down our commitments. 0:06:22.528,0:06:25.094 So even though[br]we have ministries involved, 0:06:25.094,0:06:27.747 we have civil society involved, 0:06:27.747,0:06:30.432 we need to bring in[br]the mainstream industry. 0:06:30.432,0:06:33.643 I think, for example, the mining sector[br]has a great opportunity 0:06:33.643,0:06:37.046 to be the solution[br]for the environmental issues, 0:06:37.046,0:06:40.615 because we provide the copper,[br]the cobalt, the lithium 0:06:40.615,0:06:44.159 that are required for solar PV panels,[br]for battery storage. 0:06:44.159,0:06:45.993 But we need to do this in a clean manner. 0:06:45.993,0:06:48.379 I think that's the biggest challenge[br]we're going to have 0:06:48.379,0:06:50.064 in the next 20 years ahead. 0:06:51.131,0:06:53.774 WPR: And sort of pivoting to the pandemic 0:06:53.774,0:06:56.110 and to thinking about what's going, 0:06:56.110,0:06:59.413 right now the entire world has obviously[br]been devastated by this crisis. 0:06:59.413,0:07:03.406 What have been some of the unique[br]challenges that Chile has faced 0:07:03.406,0:07:05.392 during this pandemic? 0:07:06.375,0:07:08.027 MM: Well, definitely, as anybody, 0:07:08.027,0:07:12.915 we are always struggling within 0:07:12.915,0:07:15.791 taking actions today to prevent[br]a deeper impact in the future. 0:07:15.791,0:07:17.895 And we started off pretty well. 0:07:17.895,0:07:19.529 We shut off schools. 0:07:19.529,0:07:22.851 We shut off different cities[br]and had a quarantine. 0:07:22.851,0:07:28.027 But we gave the wrong signals to people 0:07:28.027,0:07:29.679 and we didn't have a consistent effort, 0:07:29.679,0:07:33.850 and this has brought us to have[br]the highest infection rates per capita 0:07:33.850,0:07:35.325 in the world these days. 0:07:35.325,0:07:38.043 So this goes to show that,[br]the same parallels with climate change. 0:07:38.043,0:07:41.545 We need to take action now[br]to prevent deeper impact later. 0:07:41.545,0:07:44.595 And I think we need[br]to take the lesson of this 0:07:44.595,0:07:46.925 to continue with an effort, 0:07:46.925,0:07:50.611 because one thing is to announce[br]an ambitious NDC. 0:07:50.611,0:07:53.864 Another thing is to invest and do[br]the regulations that you require 0:07:53.864,0:07:55.405 to turn this into reality. 0:07:55.405,0:07:57.457 But there are some things[br]that are interesting. 0:07:57.457,0:07:58.758 The pollution in Santiago, 0:07:58.758,0:08:01.728 which is one of the most polluted capitals[br]historically in Latin America, 0:08:01.728,0:08:03.480 has dropped substantially. 0:08:03.480,0:08:06.739 The car-related emissions[br]are down almost 80 to 90 percent, 0:08:06.739,0:08:08.774 which is pretty substantive. 0:08:08.774,0:08:10.876 And we look at the example[br]of what's going on. 0:08:10.876,0:08:12.545 Harvard University showed a study[br]in which they showed 0:08:12.545,0:08:17.640 higher mortality rates[br]for more polluted cities. 0:08:17.640,0:08:19.225 And this is also the case in Chile. 0:08:19.225,0:08:25.052 For every microgram of pollution, PM2.5,[br]there is an increase of the fatality rate 0:08:25.052,0:08:26.138 of nine percent. 0:08:26.138,0:08:28.458 But the thing is, we could also look back[br]at what we've achieved up to now. 0:08:28.458,0:08:31.117 Had we not taken[br]measures to clean the air, 0:08:31.117,0:08:34.220 as we've done in Chile[br]these last 20 years, 0:08:34.220,0:08:38.140 we would be talking about five times[br]more people would have died from COVID. 0:08:38.140,0:08:42.334 We have around 800 people[br]that have died due to COVID directly, 0:08:42.334,0:08:46.369 but this would have been much higher[br]had we not taken action. 0:08:46.636,0:08:49.723 And in fact, due to the lower pollution, 0:08:49.723,0:08:53.132 if we estimate and predict this[br]to the rest of the year, 0:08:53.132,0:08:56.436 we will have saved as many lives[br]reducing the pollution 0:08:56.436,0:08:58.238 as we have lost in COVID, 0:08:58.238,0:09:01.223 showing that there's a pandemic[br]that we also need to address, 0:09:01.223,0:09:06.069 which is the crisis on air pollution[br]that suffocates many cities in the world. 0:09:06.368,0:09:10.456 WPR: And it seems like that's probably[br]something that we're seeing 0:09:10.456,0:09:12.207 in other areas around the world. 0:09:12.207,0:09:15.934 As you're suggesting,[br]air pollution is a problem everywhere. 0:09:15.934,0:09:17.970 And I'm curious also 0:09:17.970,0:09:22.681 how these challenges[br]that you've mentioned, and maybe others, 0:09:22.681,0:09:25.166 might hinder or help 0:09:25.166,0:09:27.484 some of this progress[br]that you're hoping to make 0:09:27.484,0:09:28.869 towards climate action. 0:09:28.869,0:09:31.789 How do you see this factoring in[br]to some of the decisions 0:09:31.789,0:09:34.681 that might be made going forward[br]in Chile and beyond? 0:09:36.092,0:09:39.546 MM: OK, so we have a higher fatality rate[br]and more polluted cities, 0:09:39.546,0:09:42.130 and we have a climate action to carry out. 0:09:42.130,0:09:44.082 This is going to be a decisive decade, 0:09:44.082,0:09:48.226 in which we need to lay the groundwork[br]for our lower emissions strategies. 0:09:48.627,0:09:53.081 So whatever we do today cannot lock us[br]into an incompatible climate future. 0:09:53.548,0:09:57.409 We need to lay the groundwork[br]for this low emissions transition. 0:09:57.409,0:10:00.561 So therefore, our green[br]recovery efforts need to be done, 0:10:00.561,0:10:02.380 as ?? spoke last week, 0:10:02.380,0:10:06.040 has to be related to a green recovery[br]that creates jobs immediately, 0:10:06.040,0:10:08.658 that addresses the poverty issues[br]that we have on energy 0:10:08.658,0:10:12.145 today in southern Chile, 0:10:12.380,0:10:15.322 and we need to use this[br]for expanding renewable energy 0:10:15.322,0:10:19.075 and expanding the successful efforts[br]that we've done on electromobility. 0:10:19.075,0:10:22.428 Today, we have the largest fleet[br]of electric buses outside of China, 0:10:22.428,0:10:26.555 but we could actually[br]make this go even bigger, 0:10:26.788,0:10:28.173 because we've seen 0:10:28.173,0:10:31.959 that the reductions in cost[br]have been almost 70 percent 0:10:31.959,0:10:33.461 in comparison to diesel buses, 0:10:33.461,0:10:36.220 so to use this opportunity to expand. 0:10:36.220,0:10:38.873 And multiple stakeholders are working. 0:10:38.873,0:10:41.391 We're working together[br]to call on the government 0:10:41.391,0:10:42.927 to do a green recovery, 0:10:42.927,0:10:45.586 to use the green bonds[br]that we've already issued 0:10:45.586,0:10:50.340 and under which we've gotten[br]really low rates for interest rates, 0:10:50.340,0:10:53.126 to do and fund cleaning the air, 0:10:53.126,0:10:55.051 cleaning the transportation, 0:10:55.051,0:10:59.026 and laying the groundwork for[br]a cleaner tomorrow in the mining sector, 0:10:59.026,0:11:02.090 which is our biggest[br]challenge going forward. 0:11:02.090,0:11:06.274 WPR: And then as far as the way[br]that you think about 0:11:06.274,0:11:08.653 and conceptualize climate action, 0:11:08.653,0:11:12.090 have you personally[br]had any changes to your thinking, 0:11:12.090,0:11:15.951 just as a result of what[br]you're seeing through this pandemic? 0:11:17.618,0:11:20.026 MM: Yeah, I think we start looking around. 0:11:20.026,0:11:25.398 Everybody had to struggle and find[br]that we could do much more with less, 0:11:25.398,0:11:27.918 and keeping a full economy 0:11:27.918,0:11:31.588 that requires you to buy[br]an extra t-shirt that you don't need, 0:11:31.588,0:11:35.331 the fact that we're using[br]three times more clothes 0:11:35.331,0:11:37.267 than we were maybe 20 years ago, 0:11:37.267,0:11:40.619 shows that we are blowing up[br]an economy that requires us 0:11:40.619,0:11:42.838 to destroy the environment, in a way, 0:11:42.838,0:11:45.280 to continue forward. 0:11:45.498,0:11:48.817 And the food system is going to be[br]probably our biggest challenge, 0:11:48.817,0:11:53.524 and even though I've been working[br]with electric buses and electromobility 0:11:53.524,0:11:57.649 and just the more conventional mitigation, 0:11:57.649,0:11:59.734 I think our biggest cultural challenge 0:11:59.734,0:12:02.353 will be to talk about[br]how our food decisions 0:12:02.353,0:12:07.782 impact the way that we will have a future. 0:12:07.782,0:12:12.569 "Nature" just out a report that showed[br]when we were in the government, 0:12:12.569,0:12:14.087 we had talked about. 0:12:14.087,0:12:16.326 When Chile was good in soccer, 0:12:16.326,0:12:21.922 we started going deeper[br]into the wintertime contests, 0:12:22.172,0:12:23.908 and we started winning games, 0:12:23.908,0:12:27.210 but to win those games,[br]we started doing a lot of barbecues, 0:12:27.210,0:12:29.449 and the paper that came out[br]showed something that, 0:12:29.449,0:12:30.785 when we explained this to people, 0:12:30.785,0:12:33.436 that you guys are messing up[br]the air with barbecues, 0:12:33.436,0:12:35.244 people thought we were crazy. 0:12:35.244,0:12:37.747 Well, "Nature" now showed,[br]the "Nature" report shows 0:12:37.747,0:12:42.285 that we actually fouled the air[br]and destroyed the air 0:12:42.285,0:12:45.378 and annihilated the air[br]because we wanted to celebrate the soccer. 0:12:45.378,0:12:47.863 And we set this up to people,[br]and people thought we were crazy. 0:12:47.863,0:12:51.913 Now, people acknowledge the fact[br]that the basic things that you could do, 0:12:51.913,0:12:54.536 such as the way that[br]you choose how to cook, 0:12:54.536,0:12:56.595 could actually impact your air. 0:12:56.595,0:13:00.935 So I think going forward these[br]cultural challenges that we need to do, 0:13:00.935,0:13:02.576 we need to tackle them head-on. 0:13:02.576,0:13:04.361 We need to show the evidence. 0:13:04.361,0:13:07.047 Otherwise, we're just going[br]to be ignoring problems 0:13:07.047,0:13:09.533 and letting them[br]perpetuate for the future. 0:13:10.967,0:13:14.610 WPR: And, you know, for nations[br]who have not really prioritized climate 0:13:14.610,0:13:16.612 in the same way that Chile has, 0:13:16.612,0:13:19.416 are there lessons that[br]you think can be learned 0:13:19.416,0:13:22.660 from some of the choices[br]that Chile has made in recent years 0:13:22.660,0:13:24.342 that other nations can apply, 0:13:24.342,0:13:28.262 and how could folks in other countries[br]implement some of these strategies 0:13:28.262,0:13:30.515 that you implemented in Chile? 0:13:31.833,0:13:34.169 MM: So many people in the US[br]and across the world 0:13:34.169,0:13:35.571 know about the Chilean sea bass. 0:13:35.571,0:13:39.954 The Chilean sea bass was overfished,[br]and almost collapsed. 0:13:39.954,0:13:43.638 One of the things that we did under[br]the support from "National Geographic" 0:13:43.638,0:13:45.597 and with the leadership[br]of President Bachelet 0:13:45.597,0:13:47.432 was to expand marine protection, 0:13:47.432,0:13:50.868 from four percent our own oceans[br]to 43 percent within one government, 0:13:50.868,0:13:52.286 which is the largest. 0:13:52.286,0:13:55.530 There's only comparison to the US[br]during Obama in terms of protection. 0:13:55.530,0:14:02.303 And this is because we want[br]this population also to recover. 0:14:02.303,0:14:06.997 You know, when you[br]let the park, stop fishing, 0:14:06.997,0:14:09.482 the overflow from the fishing 0:14:09.482,0:14:12.085 will actually increase[br]the biomass sixfold. 0:14:12.085,0:14:14.804 So I think one of the efforts[br]that we need to do 0:14:14.804,0:14:17.930 as we talk about[br]the biodiversity convention 0:14:17.930,0:14:19.966 that's going to happen this next year 0:14:19.966,0:14:23.136 is that we need to change[br]our relationship to the environment. 0:14:23.136,0:14:25.794 We need to protect[br]and conserve our ecosystems, 0:14:25.794,0:14:29.114 so they provide the services[br]that they do today. 0:14:29.114,0:14:31.683 Today, 96 percent of all mammals, 0:14:31.683,0:14:34.918 land mammals, are humans[br]or stuff humans eat. 0:14:34.918,0:14:38.112 Only four percent[br]of land mammals are wild. 0:14:38.346,0:14:41.165 When I heard that data,[br]from "National Geographic", 0:14:41.165,0:14:42.583 for the first time, I couldn't believe it. 0:14:42.583,0:14:46.076 We've changed our relationship[br]with the planet, 0:14:46.076,0:14:48.762 and we're suffering these decisions 0:14:48.762,0:14:51.248 because we see zoonotic diseases, 0:14:51.248,0:14:55.268 not just coronavirus,[br]spread time after time. 0:14:56.008,0:14:58.262 WPR: And we have Bruno here -- 0:14:58.262,0:15:00.763 hi, Bruno -- with a question[br]from the community. 0:15:00.763,0:15:02.648 Bruno Giussani: Hi.[br]Absolutely. Hello, Marcelo. 0:15:02.648,0:15:05.234 This is a question from Melissa Mahoney. 0:15:05.234,0:15:08.394 She asks if you "can expand on[br]what economic benefits 0:15:08.394,0:15:11.964 of net zero emissions are. 0:15:11.964,0:15:15.350 And especially, could those benefits[br]be the same for Chile 0:15:15.350,0:15:17.694 and for other countries?" 0:15:19.689,0:15:20.961 MM: Good. 0:15:20.961,0:15:22.831 For example, when I worked[br]in the World Bank, 0:15:22.831,0:15:25.522 we supported Chile to look into[br]the macroeconomic impacts 0:15:25.522,0:15:27.157 of the net zero target, 0:15:27.157,0:15:31.829 and it was shown that Chile[br]will grow 4.4 percent more. 0:15:31.829,0:15:34.831 So we turned the risk of climate change 0:15:34.831,0:15:37.490 and we turned it into an opportunity[br]of expanded growth. 0:15:37.490,0:15:40.693 This manifests in lower[br]transportation costs, 0:15:40.693,0:15:42.812 lower energy costs, 0:15:42.812,0:15:45.572 and this makes the economy[br]more competitive. 0:15:45.755,0:15:49.174 The costs of reaching the net zero target 0:15:49.174,0:15:55.063 are much lower than the benefits[br]that we will have to reap. 0:15:55.247,0:15:57.238 And we're not even talking[br]about cleaner air benefits, 0:15:57.238,0:15:59.657 we're talking about[br]direct economic benefits 0:15:59.657,0:16:01.393 of having increased investments, 0:16:01.393,0:16:06.421 which is something that every country[br]will require in these years 0:16:06.421,0:16:09.490 to recover from the COVID crisis, 0:16:09.490,0:16:11.308 and lower energy costs. 0:16:11.308,0:16:13.810 So that's how it manifests, 0:16:13.810,0:16:14.961 and this is a consensus today 0:16:14.961,0:16:15.886 that we need to have more renewable energy 0:16:15.886,0:16:19.173 because this is the way that we've had[br]cleaner air and lower energy costs. 0:16:19.339,0:16:24.077 BG: There is another question[br]from someone in the audience 0:16:24.077,0:16:25.382 asking, 0:16:25.382,0:16:29.727 "Countries across Latin America[br]have very different attitudes on climate. 0:16:30.227,0:16:32.361 Can you comment on that?" 0:16:32.863,0:16:36.317 MM: So Pew Research Center[br]has been putting out reports 0:16:36.317,0:16:40.426 regarding what is the main[br]external threat that you have. 0:16:40.676,0:16:42.895 And in Europe, in the US, 0:16:42.895,0:16:45.602 the biggest threat[br]was either China or ISIS 0:16:45.602,0:16:48.021 or some external ?? threat. 0:16:48.021,0:16:51.842 In Latin America and Africa,[br]it's climate change, number one, 0:16:51.842,0:16:54.893 and Chile is one of the highest,[br]with 86 percent of Chileans 0:16:54.893,0:16:58.170 saying that climate change[br]is the greatest external threat. 0:16:58.170,0:17:02.475 And this is also very high[br]across the region. 0:17:02.475,0:17:07.066 We could have populist governments[br]coming in, changing their priorities, 0:17:07.066,0:17:09.385 but the reality is people are concerned, 0:17:09.385,0:17:12.579 because they see the threat[br]of climate change every day, 0:17:12.579,0:17:14.613 and regardless of whether[br]the national government believes in it, 0:17:14.613,0:17:15.646 climate change is real 0:17:15.646,0:17:19.016 and is causing impacts[br]and causing poverty in the region. 0:17:20.351,0:17:22.460 BG: Thank you, Marcelo.[br]Back to you, Whitney. 0:17:22.460,0:17:24.445 WPR: That's great.[br]Thank you. Thank you Bruno. 0:17:24.445,0:17:28.099 And Marcelo, just one last question[br]before we actually say goodbye, 0:17:28.099,0:17:31.875 which is just, knowing that you[br]were involved in the negotiations 0:17:31.875,0:17:33.494 for the Paris Agreement, 0:17:33.494,0:17:36.180 are there things that you take[br]from that experience 0:17:36.180,0:17:37.981 that you can apply to this moment 0:17:37.981,0:17:40.917 as we think about emerging[br]from this crisis 0:17:40.917,0:17:44.093 and coming out of the COVID-19 pandemic. 0:17:44.093,0:17:46.029 MM: Yes, 0:17:46.029,0:17:49.799 that there will always be a populist[br]that will be opposing climate action, 0:17:49.799,0:17:53.074 and the way to get at this is[br]is to make the economic case, 0:17:53.074,0:17:54.909 so regardless of what happens, 0:17:54.909,0:17:58.313 there will be an economic case[br]for spending on renewable energy. 0:17:58.313,0:18:02.157 The US grew its renewable energy[br]investments around 40 percent last year. 0:18:02.157,0:18:04.227 In Brazil, it grew almost 10 percent. 0:18:04.227,0:18:07.461 And so therefore, if we are able[br]to align the economic goals 0:18:07.461,0:18:08.679 with climate goals, 0:18:08.679,0:18:11.165 you will be able to make this go forward. 0:18:11.165,0:18:14.970 There's the network of greening[br]the financial system 0:18:14.970,0:18:16.994 that puts together central bankers. 0:18:16.994,0:18:20.897 The World Bank launched a coalition[br]of finance ministers for climate action. 0:18:20.897,0:18:22.956 These are great efforts 0:18:22.956,0:18:25.792 that will allow us to have[br]the financial system 0:18:25.792,0:18:27.427 support climate action 0:18:27.427,0:18:29.545 because there's an economic benefit, 0:18:29.545,0:18:33.322 because it's important for you,[br]for your fiduciary responsibilities, 0:18:33.322,0:18:35.374 to disclose the risks you have, 0:18:35.374,0:18:37.469 both transitionally and physically. 0:18:37.469,0:18:39.377 And if we are able to do this, 0:18:39.377,0:18:41.537 regardless of what negotiations happen, 0:18:41.537,0:18:45.874 because there will always be[br]problems with the consensus, 0:18:45.874,0:18:48.659 you will continue to have[br]a resilient approach 0:18:48.659,0:18:50.677 because climate action will continue 0:18:50.677,0:18:53.904 because you can have[br]the economic system support this. 0:18:54.188,0:18:55.806 WPR: That's really great. 0:18:55.806,0:18:58.258 Thank you so much, Marcelo,[br]for being with us 0:18:58.258,0:19:00.343 to share your perspective[br]and your insight. 0:19:00.343,0:19:04.237 It's really great to sort of zoom in[br]on some of the things happening in Chile 0:19:04.237,0:19:06.523 and how that might apply[br]to all of us all over the world. 0:19:06.523,0:19:08.108 Thank you for joining us today. 0:19:08.108,0:19:09.062 MM: Thanks.