WEBVTT 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Whitney Pennington Rodgers: Marcelo Mena is an environmentalist, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 a scholar, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and he is the former Minister of Environment for Chile. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Welcome, Marcelo. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Marcelo Mena: How are you doing, Whitney. Thanks for the invitation. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 WPR: Perfect. Great. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Of course, thank you so much for being with us here today. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And you know, before we dive into the future of climate action 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in Chile and beyond, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I think it would be great for us to talk about the present, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and why Chile really represents a country that is worth thinking about 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 when we talk about climate. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 You know, recently there have been lots of commendable actions 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 taken by your country when we think about climate. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Chile recently committed to net zero emissions by 2050, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the first in the Americas to do this, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and that's especially notable when you think about 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 how much of Chile's economy really depends on carbon emissions: 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 mining, agriculture, and spaces like that. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So could you start a little bit by just talking about 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 how would this even be possible to get to net zero emissions in 30 years, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and what would that mean for Chile? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 MM: It was a very surreal image 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 when we saw Minister Schmidt, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the COP25 president, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Patricia Espinosa, the UN head on climate change, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 with masks delivering this new NDC. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The important thing here is things that are hard to build require consensus, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but therefore to get rid of that commitment, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 you need to have another consensus. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 This hasn't happened, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 so I think is, the reason why Chile has a sort of vision towards mitigation 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that's ambitious 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is that we see that there's a big economic benefit. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We have seen, we've witnessed, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 what the renewable energy sector has been able to do for investment, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 for lowering energy costs, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and so therefore to reach this goal 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 we will inevitably expand to 100 percent renewable, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but we'll also transform our industry, which is heavy on fossil fuels, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 towards low emissions, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 with the hydrogen economy kicking in, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 with a recently launched committee that I formed, that Minister Jobet, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the Minister of Energy, set up. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And also energy efficiency and a lot of capture, carbon capture. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We are endowed with a lot of natural capital. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Taking care of that natural capital and expanding plantations 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 will allow us to reach net zero by 2050. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 WPR: That's great. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And now it seems like Chile has such a huge focus, then, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in thinking about renewable energy and thinking about climate. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But this wasn't always the case. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Could you talk a little bit, I guess, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 about the history of how Chile arrived at this moment? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 MM: Yeah, so in 2011, 2010, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 we had an energy discussion with incumbents 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 saying the only way we could solve our energy problems 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 will be through large coal and large hydro in Patagonia. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And that really polarized the discussion. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We got together as a community after large protests 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that triggered a lot of social movements, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and we started discussing 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 how we should be able to do our energy going forward. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The population, public unrest, set up almost 6,000 megawatts 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 of coal fired power plants to never be built. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And when the government, Michelle Bachelet's government came in, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 we pulled the plug on HidroAysén project, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 which is a big hydro project in the Patagonia. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And both of these conditions enabled an opportunity 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 for renewable energy to be set in. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We put in carbon taxes, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 we put in environmental regulations, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and we set up an energy strategy that we did building on discussing 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and looking at the data 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in which we thought that the 70 percent renewable energy by 2050 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 was going to be a target that we could agree on. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 This target has been long surpassed. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Now we're thinking of reaching that same goal by 2030. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 WPR: And what you were saying about social protests, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that's something that a lot of people maybe have been following 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 news of what's going in Chile are familiar with recent social protests, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and I think I'm curious about how you see that factoring in 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to climate action moving forward. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 How might these social protests 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 play a role in what climate action you see? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And, really, how is it possible for Chile to be a leader in climate action 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 while also struggling with some of these social issues? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 MM: Well, the social issues, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 which are very profound and important to address, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 caused, for example, COP25 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to not be able to be held in Santiago, and to go to Madrid. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And this also shifted a whole bunch of the discussions and announcements 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that were done 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and we were expecting to have. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But regardless of this, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the fact that we have this commitment from the government today 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 shows that there's a resolution to continue forward. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But really the model, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the economic model of Chile, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 was brought into question, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because the environmental issues, for example, are quite widespread, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and many times you have large coal-fired power plants 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 being situated where people live 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and with higher mortality rates. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Somebody who lives where a power plant is installed 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 has twice the rate of death 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in comparison to other people in Chile. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So the model of having many people be impacted for the benefit of few 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is something that caused and triggered the social unrest. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And it goes into the economic model itself 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 of extracting, colluding, impacting communities 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that may not see the benefits of these economic activities. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So while we've done a lot, we've come a long way, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 for example in securing 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 a very emblematic agreement to phase out coal-fired power plants, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 many people that this wasn't done fast enough 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and want this action to be brought faster. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 WPR: And it sounds like having people be the voice and the engine 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 behind making that happen 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 has really been part of this historical thread 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 with climate action in Chile 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and seems like it would really lead things moving into the future. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 MM: No, definitely -- yes. Go ahead. Sorry. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 WPR: Go ahead. Please go ahead. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We have a little bit of a delay. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 MM: Starting out, we are doing well, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but I think we need to double down our commitments. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So even though we have ministries involved, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 we have civil society involved, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 we need to bring in the mainstream industry. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I think, for example, the mining sector has a great opportunity 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to be the solution for the environmental issues, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because we provide the copper, the cobalt, the lithium 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that are required for solar PV panels, for battery storage. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But we need to do this in a clean manner. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I think that's the biggest challenge we're going to have 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in the next 20 years ahead. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 WPR: And sort of pivoting to the pandemic 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and to thinking about what's going, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 right now the entire world has obviously been devastated by this crisis. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 What have been some of the unique challenges that Chile has faced 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 during this pandemic? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 MM: Well, definitely, as anybody, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 we are always struggling within 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 taking actions today to prevent a deeper impact in the future. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And we started off pretty well. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We shut off schools. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We shut off different cities and had a quarantine. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But we gave the wrong signals to people 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and we didn't have a consistent effort, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and this has brought us to have the highest infection rates per capita 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in the world these days. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So this goes to show that, the same parallels with climate change. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We need to take action now to prevent deeper impact later. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And I think we need to take the lesson of this 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to continue with an effort, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because one thing is to announce an ambitious NDC. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Another thing is to invest and do the regulations that you require 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to turn this into reality. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But there are some things that are interesting. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The pollution in Santiago, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 which is one of the most polluted capitals historically in Latin America, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 has dropped substantially. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The car-related emissions are down almost 80 to 90 percent, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 which is pretty substantive. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And we look at the example of what's going on. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Harvard University showed a study in which they showed 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 higher mortality rates for more polluted cities. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And this is also the case in Chile. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 For every microgram of pollution, PM2.5, there is an increase of the fatality rate 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 of nine percent. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But the thing is, we could also look back at what we've achieved up to now. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Had we not taken measures to clean the air, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 as we've done in Chile these last 20 years, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 we would be talking about five times more people would have died from COVID. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We have around 800 people that have died due to COVID directly, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but this would have been much higher had we not taken action. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And in fact, due to the lower pollution, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 if we estimate and predict this to the rest of the year, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 we will have saved as many lives reducing the pollution 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 as we have lost in COVID, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 showing that there's a pandemic that we also need to address, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 which is the crisis on air pollution that suffocates many cities in the world. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 WPR: And it seems like that's probably something that we're seeing 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in other areas around the world. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 As you're suggesting, air pollution is a problem everywhere. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And I'm curious also 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 how these challenges that you've mentioned, and maybe others, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 might hinder or help 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 some of this progress that you're hoping to make 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 towards climate action. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 How do you see this factoring in to some of the decisions 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that might be made going forward in Chile and beyond? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 MM: OK, so we have a higher fatality rate and more polluted cities, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and we have a climate action to carry out. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 This is going to be a decisive decade, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in which we need to lay the groundwork for our lower emissions strategies. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So whatever we do today cannot lock us into an incompatible climate future. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We need to lay the groundwork for this low emissions transition. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So therefore, our green recovery efforts need to be done, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 as ?? spoke last week, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 has to be related to a green recovery that creates jobs immediately, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that addresses the poverty issues that we have on energy 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 today in southern Chile, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and we need to use this for expanding renewable energy 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and expanding the successful efforts that we've done on electromobility. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Today, we have the largest fleet of electric buses outside of China, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but we could actually make this go even bigger, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because we've seen 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that the reductions in cost have been almost 70 percent 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in comparison to diesel buses, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 so to use this opportunity to expand. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And multiple stakeholders are working. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We're working together to call on the government 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to do a green recovery, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to use the green bonds that we've already issued 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and under which we've gotten really low rates for interest rates, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to do and fund cleaning the air, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 cleaning the transportation, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and laying the groundwork for a cleaner tomorrow in the mining sector, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 which is our biggest challenge going forward. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 WPR: And then as far as the way that you think about 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and conceptualize climate action, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 have you personally had any changes to your thinking, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 just as a result of what you're seeing through this pandemic? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 MM: Yeah, I think we start looking around. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Everybody had to struggle and find that we could do much more with less, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and keeping a full economy 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that requires you to buy an extra t-shirt that you don't need, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the fact that we're using three times more clothes 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 than we were maybe 20 years ago, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 shows that we are blowing up an economy that requires us 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to destroy the environment, in a way, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to continue forward. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And the food system is going to be probably our biggest challenge, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and even though I've been working with electric buses and electromobility 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and just the more conventional mitigation, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I think our biggest cultural challenge 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 will be to talk about how our food decisions 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 impact the way that we will have a future. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 "Nature" just out a report that showed when we were in the government, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 what we talked about. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 When Chile was good in soccer, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 we started going deeper into the wintertime contests, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and we started winning games, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but to win those games, we started doing a lot of barbecues, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and the paper that came out showed something that, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 when we explained this to people, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that you guys are messing up the air with barbecues, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 people thought we were crazy. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Well, "Nature" now showed, the "Nature" report shows 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that we actually fouled the air and destroyed the air 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and annihilated the air because we wanted to celebrate the soccer. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And we set this up to people, and people thought we were crazy. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Now, people acknowledge the fact that the basic thing that you could do, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 such as the way that you choose how to cook, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 could actually impact your air. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So I think going forward these cultural challenges that we need to do, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 we need to tackle them head-on. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We need to show the evidence. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Otherwise, we're just going to be ignoring problems 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and letting them perpetuate for the future. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 WPR: And, you know, for nations who have not really prioritized climate 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in the same way that Chile has, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 are there lessons that you think can be learned 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 from some of the choices that Chile has made in recent years 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that other nations can apply, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and how could folks in other countries implement some of these strategies 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that you implemented in Chile? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 MM: So many people in the US and across the world 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 know about the Chilean sea bass. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The Chilean sea bass was overfished, and almost collapsed. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 One of the things that we did under the support from "National Geographic" 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and with the leadership of President Bachelet 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 was to expand marine protection, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 from four percent our own oceans to 43 percent within one government, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 which is the largest. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 There's only comparison to the US during Obama in terms of protection. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 This is because we want this population also to recover. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 You know, when you let the park, stop fishing, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the overflow from the fishing 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 will actually increase the biomass sixfold. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So I think one of the efforts that we need to do 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 as we talk about the biodiversity convention 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that's going to happen this next year 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is that we need to change our relationship to the environment. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We need to protect and conserve our ecosystems, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 so they provide the services that they do today. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Today, 96 percent of all mammals, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 land mammals, are humans or stuff humans eat. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Only four percent of land mammals are wild. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 When I heard that data, from "National Geographic", 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 for the first time, I couldn't believe it. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We've changed our relationship with the planet, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and we're suffering these decisions 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because we see zoonotic diseases, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 not just coronavirus, spread time after time. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 WPR: And we have Bruno here -- 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 hi, Bruno -- with a question from the community. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Bruno Giussani: Hi. Absolutely. Hello, Marcelo. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 This is a question from Melissa Mahoney. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 She asks if you "can expand on what economic benefits 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 of net zero emissions are. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And especially, could those benefits be the same for Chile 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and for other countries?" NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 MM: Good. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 For example, when I worked in the World Bank, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 we supported Chile to look into the macroeconomic impacts 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 of the net zero target, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and it was shown that Chile will grow 4.4 percent more. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So we turned the risk of climate change 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and we turned it into an opportunity of expanded growth. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 This manifests in lower transportation costs, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 lower energy costs, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and this makes the economy more competitive. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The costs of reaching the net zero target 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 are much lower than the benefits that we will have to reap. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And we're not even talking about cleaner air benefits, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 we're talking about direct economic benefits 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 of having increased investments, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 which is something that every country will require in these years 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to recover from the COVID crisis, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and lower energy costs. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So that's how it manifests, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and this is a consensus today 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that we need to have more renewable energy 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because this is the way that we've had cleaner air and lower energy costs. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 BG: There is another question from someone in the audience 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 asking, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 "Countries across Latin America have very different attitudes on climate. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Can you comment on that?" NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 MM: So Pew Research Center has been putting out reports 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 regarding what is the main external threat that you have. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And in Europe, in the US, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the biggest threat was either China or ISIS 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 or some external ?? threat. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 In Latin America and Africa, it's climate change, number one, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and Chile is one of the highest, with 86 percent of Chileans 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 saying that climate change is the greatest external threat. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So this is also very high across the region. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We could have populist governments coming in, changing their priorities, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but the reality is people are concerned, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because they see the threat of climate change every day, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and regardless of whether the national government believes in it, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 climate change is real 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and is causing impacts and causing poverty in the region. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 BG: Thank you, Marcelo. Back to you, Whitney. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 WPR: That's great. Thank you. Thank you Bruno. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And Marcelo, just one last question before we actually say goodbye, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 which is just, knowing that you were involved in the negotiations 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 for the Paris Agreement, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 are there things that you take from that experience 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that you can apply to this moment 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 as we think about emerging from this crisis 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and coming out of the COVID-19 pandemic. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 MM: Yes, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that there will always be a populist that will be opposing climate action, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and the way to get at this is is to make the economic case, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 so regardless of what happens, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 there will be an economic case for spending on renewable energy. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The US grew its renewable energy investments around 40 percent last year. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 In Brazil, it grew almost 10 percent. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And so therefore, if we are able to align the economic goals 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 with climate goals, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 you will be able to make this go forward. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 There's the network of greening the financial system 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that puts together central bankers. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The World Bank launched a coalition of finance ministers for climate action. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 These are great efforts 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that will allow us to have the financial system 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 support climate action 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because there's an economic benefit, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because it's important for you, for your fiduciary responsibilities, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to disclose the risks you have, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 both transitionally and physically. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And if we are able to do this, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 regardless of what negotiations happen, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because there will always be problems with the consensus, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 you will continue to have a resilient approach 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because climate action will continue 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because you can have the economic system support this. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 WPR: That's really great. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Thank you so much, Marcelo, for being with us 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to share your perspective and your insight. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It's really great to sort of zoom in on some of the things happening in Chile 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and how that might apply to all of us all over the world. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Thank you for joining us today. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 MM: Thanks.