[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:13.33,0:00:16.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ MARY HEILMANN ] \NI always wanted a lot of attention.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:17.41,0:00:20.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I had taken ballet lessons\Nas a child.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:20.52,0:00:23.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I wanted to be a famous ballerina doing Swan Lake.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:23.64,0:00:25.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I wanted everyone looking at me.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:25.40,0:00:31.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then I wanted to be spinning, doing somersaults \Noff the diving tower in Los Angeles.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:31.92,0:00:34.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And people look at you when you\Ndo that.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:35.40,0:00:36.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When I told my mother I wanted
Dialogue: 0,0:00:36.84,0:00:40.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be an artist, she said,\N"You'll starve in a garret."
Dialogue: 0,0:00:40.96,0:00:44.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in my mind, I thought, "Yes,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:44.24,0:00:46.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's exactly what I wanted."
Dialogue: 0,0:00:46.20,0:00:49.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It turns out that it was really\Na mission I was on, and it was
Dialogue: 0,0:00:49.52,0:00:53.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just about the only thing\NI thought about: doing art.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:58.80,0:01:03.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,While I was at San Francisco\NState, studying education,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:03.00,0:01:04.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I started doing ceramics.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:04.72,0:01:07.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I'm doing my English,\Nmy literature, my writing,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:07.96,0:01:12.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then started doing pottery,\Nand I was very good at that.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:15.44,0:01:18.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In Southern California in the\Nearly '60s, big stuff was
Dialogue: 0,0:01:18.52,0:01:19.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,happening in ceramics.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:19.76,0:01:22.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I went up to Berkeley to\Ngraduate school, and then we're
Dialogue: 0,0:01:22.80,0:01:25.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doing sort of an abstract\Nexpressionist ceramic sculpture,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:25.92,0:01:28.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,huge scale, tremendous amount of
Dialogue: 0,0:01:28.44,0:01:30.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,craft involved in making these
Dialogue: 0,0:01:30.32,0:01:33.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,things and firing them and\Nglazing them.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:35.81,0:01:39.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then I get to know Bruce Nauman,\Nwho's also in school at the same
Dialogue: 0,0:01:39.64,0:01:43.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,time up at Davis, and the rest\Nis history.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:44.96,0:01:47.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The teachers in the school hated\Nthe sculpture I made.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:47.12,0:01:48.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They almost kicked me out.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:48.68,0:01:50.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So then I went up to Davis to
Dialogue: 0,0:01:50.64,0:01:54.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,work with William Wiley, who was\NBruce's teacher, and then the
Dialogue: 0,0:01:54.20,0:01:58.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,three of us spent time together\Ntalking about ideas, and that's
Dialogue: 0,0:01:58.44,0:02:00.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a really important part of my life.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:00.26,0:02:01.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was just wonderful.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:05.76,0:02:10.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the beginning, the art\Nenterprise was doing something
Dialogue: 0,0:02:10.40,0:02:14.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,important, beautiful, sort of\Nall by yourself.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:15.20,0:02:19.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As I got into it and matured,\NI saw that the most important
Dialogue: 0,0:02:19.64,0:02:22.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thing about doing artwork was\Ncommunicating and having
Dialogue: 0,0:02:22.96,0:02:25.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something like a conversation\Nthrough the work.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:25.96,0:02:27.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I thought about making pieces
Dialogue: 0,0:02:27.88,0:02:31.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,partly for their formal values\Nbut also very much for the kind
Dialogue: 0,0:02:31.48,0:02:33.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a response I would get.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:34.16,0:02:35.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And often, the response that
Dialogue: 0,0:02:35.52,0:02:38.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I wanted was one of antagonism.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:38.72,0:02:41.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I wanted to cause trouble.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:42.84,0:02:45.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that caused me trouble in\Ngraduate school, because by that
Dialogue: 0,0:02:45.72,0:02:48.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,time, I had figured out that\NI wanted to be on the edge,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:48.76,0:02:53.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,original, and that meant going\Nagainst the status quo.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:58.40,0:03:00.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I decided to switch my practice
Dialogue: 0,0:03:00.68,0:03:04.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over to being a painter, and\Nthen I started making paintings,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:04.48,0:03:07.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which really evolved out of the\Nsculpture.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:08.96,0:03:12.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The reason they're painted on\Nthe side is because, first,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:12.48,0:03:15.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're objects, and then\Nthey're pictures of something.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:19.04,0:03:23.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Later on, it was the early '90s,\Nand there was a big recession
Dialogue: 0,0:03:23.84,0:03:29.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on, and the art magazines would\Nhave artists write pieces,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:29.46,0:03:34.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we didn't get paid, and so I\Nstarted writing about my work,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:34.28,0:03:36.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and when people would see an
Dialogue: 0,0:03:36.92,0:03:40.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,image and then read the writing,\Nthey started to like my work.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:41.56,0:03:46.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then I started doing the titles,\Nwriting pieces for catalogs,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:46.52,0:03:51.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,writing pieces for magazines,\Nand the writing practice and the
Dialogue: 0,0:03:51.24,0:03:54.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,art practice are really going\Nhand in hand now.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:56.68,0:04:01.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Every piece of abstract art that\NI make has a backstory,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:01.53,0:04:06.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and now I started giving them these\Nfanciful titles that related to
Dialogue: 0,0:04:06.92,0:04:09.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something that was going on\Nwith me.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:09.36,0:04:15.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the titles are often like\Na three-word poem that is a part of the piece.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:16.72,0:04:18.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I do keep a diary, and I can
Dialogue: 0,0:04:18.32,0:04:22.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,look back and see what was going\Non, and I like to do that.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:22.24,0:04:27.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And actually, remembering and\Nthen in the art expressing
Dialogue: 0,0:04:27.16,0:04:29.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,emotion is something that I like\Nto do.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:30.44,0:04:32.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The titles help with that.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:32.16,0:04:33.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The color helps.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:33.88,0:04:35.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then the music metaphor is
Dialogue: 0,0:04:35.76,0:04:36.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something I think about when
Dialogue: 0,0:04:36.88,0:04:40.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I try to put emotion into\Nabstract work.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:41.92,0:04:43.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Scale does it.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:44.60,0:04:50.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The relation of parts to the\Nwhole piece give a feeling of
Dialogue: 0,0:04:50.52,0:04:58.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,feeling–loss, loneliness,\Nclaustrophobia, agoraphobia,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:58.00,0:05:03.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,free, freedom, lifted spirit type of feeling,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:04.39,0:05:08.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,melancholy and\Njoy maybe in the same piece.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:11.20,0:05:12.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the titles help.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:14.96,0:05:20.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Very post-modern here, mixing my\Ndouble greens.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:20.89,0:05:23.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One thing that really\Ninterests me is—and it comes
Dialogue: 0,0:05:23.72,0:05:27.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out of Chinese and Japanese\Npainting—is where you have
Dialogue: 0,0:05:27.36,0:05:30.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a number of different kinds of\Nspace in the same painting.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:30.72,0:05:34.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have a kind of deep space,\Nand then you have something like
Dialogue: 0,0:05:34.40,0:05:36.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right up on the surface.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:36.04,0:05:39.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This painting that we were\Npainting on today has that.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:39.24,0:05:42.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It has the converging lines\Ngoing off into space and then
Dialogue: 0,0:05:42.52,0:05:46.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the drip coming down the face of\Nthe painting, which is, like, flat.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:47.08,0:05:48.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Now the fake drip.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:48.92,0:05:52.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that there are two realities\Ngoing on in the same painting.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:57.76,0:06:01.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Another thing that speaks to\Nthat is these paintings that are
Dialogue: 0,0:06:01.04,0:06:04.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on this double square shaped\Ncanvas,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:04.67,0:06:12.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and often I put a deep space kind of motif on a shaped\Ncanvas like that, and then the
Dialogue: 0,0:06:12.68,0:06:16.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,two squares that are the empty\Nspace make the wall be part of the painting.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:18.16,0:06:21.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Of course, then you get real\Nspace and then the fake space
Dialogue: 0,0:06:22.08,0:06:25.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then also the physical\Nobject that's the canvas.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:25.20,0:06:28.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there you've got three kinds\Nof space in the same painting.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:28.96,0:06:32.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The shaped canvas comes out of\Nmy own thinking about geometry.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:32.96,0:06:37.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like, a lot of my figuring out\Nwhat to make time is spent by
Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.92,0:06:41.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sort of doing some basic\Ncounting and measuring and
Dialogue: 0,0:06:41.40,0:06:46.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trying to figure out how big\Ndifferent elements of a piece should be.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:49.44,0:06:54.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This vanishing point painting\Nthat I've made, which is called, "Two-Lane Blacktop" —
Dialogue: 0,0:06:55.24,0:06:56.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I love it.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:56.44,0:07:00.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's one black thing with two\Nlittle lines on it.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:03.92,0:07:05.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- I think that's it.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:06.80,0:07:08.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- So let's see how that looks.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:10.24,0:07:13.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've probably been thinking\Nabout it for four months, trying
Dialogue: 0,0:07:13.20,0:07:17.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to figure out how to get that\Njust right, and I think I've got it.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:17.16,0:07:18.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Two-Lane Blacktop.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:18.60,0:07:19.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And once I get that, I think
Dialogue: 0,0:07:19.88,0:07:22.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'll make about 12 of those\Npaintings.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:22.15,0:07:23.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughs]
Dialogue: 0,0:07:24.80,0:07:29.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These simple ideas become\Nobsessions, almost like a meditation.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:29.88,0:07:36.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Sit down here and think about\Nhow fabulous that is.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:36.64,0:07:39.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Maybe have to do a few little\Ntouch-ups on it,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:40.48,0:07:42.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that's pretty much it.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:57.37,0:08:00.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I take pictures and they're just\Nin the back of my mind.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:00.48,0:08:03.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't really look at 'em when\NI'm painting.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:03.98,0:08:06.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now lately, I've been making some\Ndigital prints,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:06.86,0:08:09.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which\NI combine with etching.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:09.60,0:08:13.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you get the idea of the two\Nkinds of way of making images.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:14.88,0:08:20.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I always have used\Na slideshow when I give artist talks.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:20.08,0:08:21.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The slideshow involves using
Dialogue: 0,0:08:21.92,0:08:25.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of photographic imagery\Nwith the painting images.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:33.52,0:08:38.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm a very holy little Catholic\Ngirl at about six, seven, eight years old,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:38.92,0:08:44.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what I wanted to\Ndo was to be a martyr.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:44.16,0:08:49.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I would be in Rome in the\NColosseum, and the lions would
Dialogue: 0,0:08:49.28,0:08:53.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,come running out, and they'd get\Nme, and the audience at the
Dialogue: 0,0:08:53.64,0:08:58.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Colosseum, the bad Romans that\Nwere killing the Catholics,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:58.20,0:09:00.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would be cheering,\Nand then I'd just go flying up
Dialogue: 0,0:09:00.72,0:09:02.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,straight to heaven.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:02.72,0:09:05.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Crazy as the martyrdom fantasy
Dialogue: 0,0:09:05.24,0:09:09.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is, it just made such a fabulous\Nstory, and the way you flew up
Dialogue: 0,0:09:09.24,0:09:12.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to Heaven was so fabulous.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:12.24,0:09:14.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Diving was not like that.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:14.07,0:09:17.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You didn't fly like that when\Nyou jumped off a 15-foot tower.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:17.70,0:09:18.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughs]
Dialogue: 0,0:09:18.98,0:09:20.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You went down really fast.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:22.69,0:09:28.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I loved the whole Catholic\Nculture as a kid.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:30.08,0:09:34.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Growing up with those kinds of\Nstories has carried on into my life,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:34.49,0:09:37.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the way I think and make\Nup things now.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:37.40,0:09:39.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the fact that an object of
Dialogue: 0,0:09:39.28,0:09:45.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,art feels like an icon in the\Nway icons were when I was little
Dialogue: 0,0:09:45.68,0:09:47.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is really a true thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:48.20,0:09:49.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Each thing almost works as an
Dialogue: 0,0:09:49.84,0:09:55.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,icon or maybe an ideograph to\Nsay one idea which has resonance
Dialogue: 0,0:09:55.40,0:09:58.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and makes you have thoughts\Nabout other ideas.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:00.20,0:10:04.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And even talking about, like,\Nsay, the drip as an icon.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:06.08,0:10:10.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Color can be thought about in an\Niconographic way.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:10.72,0:10:14.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I did do a painting based on the\NMartyrdom of St. Sebastian.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:14.52,0:10:16.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's called "Rosebud."
Dialogue: 0,0:10:23.12,0:10:27.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have a tremendous love for the\Nspiritual part of life,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:28.14,0:10:29.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's more ecumenical now.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:29.84,0:10:31.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not so specific.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:38.22,0:10:40.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My spiritual life is very\Nimportant to me.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:40.52,0:10:43.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think the artworks\Nare icons.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:44.32,0:10:47.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what's great about an\Nartwork is that you can sit
Dialogue: 0,0:10:47.20,0:10:51.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there and look at it and\Nmeditate and think and make it
Dialogue: 0,0:10:51.40,0:10:55.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and unmake it and remake it\None's own or anyone else's.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:56.09,0:10:58.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the invisible painting,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:58.81,0:11:05.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I'm hoping that when it hangs on the wall,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:05.39,0:11:09.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being just\Nthese two slightly different colors of white,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:09.79,0:11:15.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it will\Nlook like a beautiful, magical hole in the wall.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:15.32,0:11:18.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Very bad to talk about it before\Nit's finished.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:18.72,0:11:22.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I guess mostly the stories and\Nthe images is probably the main
Dialogue: 0,0:11:22.16,0:11:27.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,way that this kind of thinking\Nabout work relates to my childhood.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:27.92,0:11:32.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,An artwork can transport\Na person in a soulful, rich way
Dialogue: 0,0:11:32.88,0:11:38.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without having any fear of\Npunishment or hell or sin or
Dialogue: 0,0:11:38.80,0:11:41.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,any of those other good things.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:42.60,0:11:46.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am gonna leave that\NPost-Modern drip there.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:05.62,0:12:09.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ ANNOUNCER ] To learn more about \NArt21: “Art in the Twenty-First Century"
Dialogue: 0,0:12:09.91,0:12:11.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and its educational resources,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:11.91,0:12:15.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,please visit us online at: \NPBS.org
Dialogue: 0,0:12:18.94,0:12:24.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Art21: “Art in the Twenty-First Century” \Nis available on Blu-Ray and DVD.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:24.54,0:12:26.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The companion book is also available.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:26.74,0:12:30.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To order, visit us online at: shopPBS.org
Dialogue: 0,0:12:30.00,0:12:34.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or call PBS Home Video at: \N1-800-PLAY-PBS