[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:19.15,0:00:21.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is The State of Things.\NI'm Frank Stasio.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:22.00,0:00:25.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A lot of academic research was\Npaid for with public funding,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:25.20,0:00:29.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but public access is often\Nrestricted by expensive paywalls.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:29.50,0:00:32.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Meanwhile, some academic\Npublishing companies have higher
Dialogue: 0,0:00:32.12,0:00:35.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,profit margins than companies\Nlike Walmart, Google, and Apple.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:35.80,0:00:38.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there is a movement on the way\Nthat could turn the tide.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:44.55,0:00:46.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Paywall\NThe Business of Scholarship
Dialogue: 0,0:00:47.49,0:00:50.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Universities are about educating humans,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:50.40,0:00:56.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there is literally no reason\Nto keep information from people.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:57.00,0:01:02.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is nothing gained other\Nthan money, and power,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:03.20,0:01:07.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and things that, as people,\Nwe should want to push up against.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:08.12,0:01:08.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Lot of money?
Dialogue: 0,0:01:08.75,0:01:10.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A lot of money!
Dialogue: 0,0:01:12.72,0:01:16.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A lot of money. It's huge, huge business.\NBillions of dollars of business.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:17.80,0:01:22.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Academic publishing is a 25.2 billion\Ndollar a year industry.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:22.10,0:01:24.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This journal by Elsevier, Biomaterials,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:24.17,0:01:29.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,costs an average 10,702 dollars for yearly digital subscriptions.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:29.10,0:01:31.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is that money well spent?\NIt's hard to say.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:32.58,0:01:37.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In 1995, Forbes magazine predicted that scholarly\Nresearch would be the Internet’s first victim.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:38.30,0:01:40.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Academics are progressive, and surely journals
Dialogue: 0,0:01:40.91,0:01:43.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would lose power in revenue with digital distribution.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:43.72,0:01:46.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,23 years later,\Nthis couldn't be further from the truth.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:46.95,0:01:49.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think one thing we learn\Nwhen we look at history is
Dialogue: 0,0:01:49.52,0:01:51.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that humans are really\Nbad at predicting the future.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:51.83,0:01:55.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is something that\Nthe media, they love to do,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:55.80,0:01:58.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and people who consume media\Nlove to read it. It's fun, it...
Dialogue: 0,0:01:58.90,0:01:59.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[error sound]
Dialogue: 0,0:01:59.90,0:02:00.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are sorry.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:01.10,0:02:03.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You don’t have the credentials\Nto access this documentary.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:04.41,0:02:06.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Please see payment options below.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:11.20,0:02:12.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[blip]
Dialogue: 0,0:02:12.30,0:02:17.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The scholarly publishing industry makes\Nabout a 35 to 40 percent profit margin.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:17.37,0:02:19.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And different years\Nwhen I've looked at this,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:19.32,0:02:21.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, Walmart\Nis making around 3 %,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:21.60,0:02:25.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Walmart is like this evil,\Nyou know, giant for a lot of people.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:25.19,0:02:28.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it’s 3 percent compared to 35 percent.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:28.10,0:02:31.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, I could have flipped my own\Nattitudes now, like,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:31.63,0:02:33.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Walmart's not that bad compared to some of these
Dialogue: 0,0:02:33.90,0:02:36.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,other players in other industries.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:36.00,0:02:40.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, wealth management industry\Nis around 21 %, Toyota's around 12 %.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:40.50,0:02:46.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How is it okay for this whole industry\Nto be making so much a profit margin
Dialogue: 0,0:02:47.02,0:02:51.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when there really aren’t any inputs\Nthat they have to pay for?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:51.25,0:02:53.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Jason) What are the corporations\Nwhich you compare
Dialogue: 0,0:02:53.65,0:02:56.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with that sort of a profit margin,\Nthat 32-35?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:56.28,0:02:58.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have honestly never heard\Nof corporations
Dialogue: 0,0:02:58.97,0:03:01.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that have profit margins that are that big.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:01.60,0:03:05.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In most other lines of,\Nlines of normal enterprise and business,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:05.44,0:03:09.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that kind of profit margin is the sign\Nof some kind of monopoly logic at work.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:09.73,0:03:15.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Even though people not in academia\Nmay not be reading a lot of these articles,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:15.31,0:03:18.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,may not find them useful,\Nthey are still paying for them.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:18.16,0:03:22.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Your tax dollars go towards governments\Nwho then subsidize universities,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:22.90,0:03:27.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who then provide funds to libraries,\Nwho pay publishers through subscription fees.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:27.50,0:03:31.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The journals and the publishers\Nare getting, um, your money.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:31.76,0:03:35.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whether is it's you or your neighbor,\Neveryone is paying into the system.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:35.25,0:03:37.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the people benefiting the most\Nare publishers.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:37.81,0:03:40.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Everybody deserves a profit margin.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:40.32,0:03:42.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But how can journals - journals! -
Dialogue: 0,0:03:42.64,0:03:45.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have a profit margin larger than\Nsome of the biggest tech companies?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:46.56,0:03:50.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, publishing is so profitable \Nbecause the workers don’t get paid.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:50.04,0:03:53.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, in what other industry,\NI can think of none,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:53.97,0:03:56.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in which the primary workers,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:56.41,0:03:59.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in this case, the authors, reviewers,\Nget paid nothing?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:59.31,0:04:03.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Profit margins in many respects\Nin the publishing are second to none,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:03.62,0:04:08.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a few years back, I compared them to\NFacebook, and I realized they're about
Dialogue: 0,0:04:08.78,0:04:12.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the equivalent of the most successful\Nsoftware companies today in terms of margins.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:12.70,0:04:15.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And of course, Facebook has\Nvirtually infinite scale
Dialogue: 0,0:04:15.65,0:04:19.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there's arguably no more successful\Ncompany in the last five or ten years.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:19.04,0:04:23.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, um, publishing is obscenely profitable
Dialogue: 0,0:04:23.13,0:04:28.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and because of it, the publisher’s\Nin no rush to see the world change.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:28.56,0:04:31.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is a real question\Nas to why the margins are so high,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:31.35,0:04:34.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, 35 percent higher than Google’s\Nmargins; what’s going on there?
Dialogue: 0,0:04:34.77,0:04:38.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, and that is simply\Nbecause the pricing power, you know.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:38.77,0:04:43.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You, if you are Elsevier, let’s say,\Nyou have proprietary access;
Dialogue: 0,0:04:43.43,0:04:47.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you are selling a stream\Nof content to a university.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.12,0:04:50.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it’s not like, you know,\Ngoing to the supermarket
Dialogue: 0,0:04:50.15,0:04:53.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if there, you know, one beer is too \Nexpensive, you choose another one.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:53.57,0:04:56.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is not like a university librarian can say,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:56.47,0:04:59.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}"Well, the Elsevier papers are too expensive,\Nwe’ll just go with Wiley this year."{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:04:59.68,0:05:01.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You kind of need all of them.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:01.63,0:05:07.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so you have an ability to charge\Nreally as much as you want,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:07.67,0:05:10.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the universities will rarely\Nactually balk.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:10.87,0:05:15.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They might pretend to balk, but the \Nreality is that faculty have to have access,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:15.37,0:05:18.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that’s a very powerful position\Nfor the businesses.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:18.44,0:05:20.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Here's a problem in the market.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:20.16,0:05:23.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The market exhibits what\Nsomeone has called a moral hazard,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:23.90,0:05:27.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which doesn’t have anything to\Nwith morality, [it's] an economic term.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:27.70,0:05:30.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moral hazard comes about\Nwhen the purchasers of the good
Dialogue: 0,0:05:30.50,0:05:32.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are not the consumers of the good.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:32.90,0:05:35.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what is the good here,\Nin the traditional publishing market?
Dialogue: 0,0:05:35.95,0:05:38.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's access, you know,\Nreadership access.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:38.53,0:05:41.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The consumers are people like me\Nwho want to read the articles,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:41.48,0:05:44.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the purchasers, though, are not me,\NI don’t tend to subscribe to journals.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:44.96,0:05:51.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Harvard Library spends huge amounts of\Nmoney subscribing to a huge range of journals.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:51.31,0:05:58.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I am price insensitive to these\Njournals, 'cause I don’t have to pay the bill.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:59.05,0:06:00.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The money is real. Right?
Dialogue: 0,0:06:00.48,0:06:03.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Academic publishing\Nfor journals is a 10 billion dollar
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.88,0:06:05.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a year revenue producing industry.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:05.90,0:06:09.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is not chump change.\NThis is a significant amount of money.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:09.70,0:06:14.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When you think about a profit margin\Nof 30 to 40 percent taken out of that,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:14.70,0:06:17.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that could be put back\Ninto the research enterprise,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:17.59,0:06:20.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether it's supporting more science,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:20.01,0:06:21.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether it's supporting universities,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:21.84,0:06:24.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, hiring more researchers,\Npaying more faculty,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:24.86,0:06:26.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,making college more affordable,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:26.92,0:06:31.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that financial aspect is a symptom of
Dialogue: 0,0:06:31.08,0:06:34.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just how out of alignment\Nthis commercial model is
Dialogue: 0,0:06:34.15,0:06:37.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in trying to stay relevant\Nin the research process.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.74,0:06:43.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Usually we don’t think\Nabout the relationship
Dialogue: 0,0:06:43.74,0:06:48.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between the profit\Nof such companies, on the one hand,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:49.59,0:06:57.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the ever-increasing\Ntuition fees at universities,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:57.71,0:06:59.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it's also a part of the story.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:00.14,0:07:03.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are not talking about\Na marginal problem.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:03.76,0:07:09.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are not talking about\Nthe internal issues of the scholars.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:09.68,0:07:13.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are talking about\Nvery basic social problems.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:13.71,0:07:16.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What will be the future of our societies?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:17.13,0:07:20.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Journal prices have been increasing \Nway above the level of inflation
Dialogue: 0,0:07:21.05,0:07:23.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and well above\Nthe rate of the growth of library budgets.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:23.76,0:07:26.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not just for years,\Nbut for decades.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:26.01,0:07:28.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's been a catastrophe.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:28.53,0:07:31.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just ten hours ago,\NAnthem College shut down.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:31.15,0:07:34.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Saint Joseph College will be\Nclosing its doors.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:34.18,0:07:37.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Deep in debt, Dowling College\Nis shutting its doors.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:37.25,0:07:39.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The abrupt closure leaves faculty\Nwithout jobs
Dialogue: 0,0:07:39.72,0:07:42.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and thousands of students\Nscrambling to find another school.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:42.74,0:07:46.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The academy writ large\Nhas not really examined
Dialogue: 0,0:07:46.77,0:07:50.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the full cost\Nof scholarly communication.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:50.54,0:07:54.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s been really the libraries' budgets\Nthat have born the brunt of that,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:54.22,0:07:57.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we have often had to go\Nhat in hand to the administration
Dialogue: 0,0:07:57.14,0:08:00.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to get increases for serials,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:01.06,0:08:03.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,specifically science, technology,\Nmedicine journals,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:03.59,0:08:06.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that have just had\Na rapid increase in price
Dialogue: 0,0:08:06.61,0:08:10.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for whatever reasons\Nthe publishers may claim for that.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:10.14,0:08:14.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And for profit to go up,\Nscarcity has to prevail.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:14.20,0:08:17.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Welcome to the world of paywalls\Nblocking research.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:17.52,0:08:19.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Have you hit paywalls?\N- Absolutely.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:19.75,0:08:21.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have definitely hit a paywall.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:22.17,0:08:23.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I hit a paywall frequently.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:23.100,0:08:27.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Have you ever hit a paywall?\N- Oh, pff, yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:27.32,0:08:28.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I hit a paywall.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:28.14,0:08:30.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Quite often, I’ll find a paywall, yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:30.37,0:08:32.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When I was a student,\NI definitely hit a paywall.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:33.29,0:08:34.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I hit paywalls a lot.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:34.92,0:08:37.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- How do you feel?\N- I feel really pissed.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:37.54,0:08:41.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Students graduate,\Nget their Master's,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:41.53,0:08:44.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,flow into those\Nspin-off companies,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:44.00,0:08:46.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and suddenly they discovered,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:46.20,0:08:50.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they could not get\Naccess to the research results
Dialogue: 0,0:08:50.79,0:08:54.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they needed because they were not\Nlonger affiliated with the university.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:54.81,0:09:01.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They came knocking on my door. And\NI had to tell them, that, as a librarian,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:01.84,0:09:08.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was in this awkward position,\Nthat I had to block non-affiliated users
Dialogue: 0,0:09:08.86,0:09:12.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for access to publicly funded research.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:12.88,0:09:17.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that is completely contrary to the \Nmission of a library and a librarian.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:17.81,0:09:19.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that was an eye opener.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:19.94,0:09:22.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Do you want to tell us a\Nlittle bit about yourself?
Dialogue: 0,0:09:22.34,0:09:24.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm Dwight Parker,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:24.36,0:09:28.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm in the middle of\Nmy working on a PhD in Ed Psychology,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:28.92,0:09:32.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I decided that I needed\Nto take a break from that,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:32.20,0:09:33.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I’m selling cars.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:33.44,0:09:36.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,While I was in the program,\NI had access to lots of things,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:36.65,0:09:39.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but once you're outside that program,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:39.68,0:09:42.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you, those same resources\Njust aren’t available to you;
Dialogue: 0,0:09:42.18,0:09:44.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at least they weren't to me, anyway.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:44.42,0:09:47.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In, you know,\Neducation psychology was mine,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:47.65,0:09:50.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and most of the research done\Nis government funded,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:50.29,0:09:53.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that's taxpayer money\Ngoing to fund research,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:53.50,0:09:56.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they're then charging for,\Nwhich is absurd.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:56.42,0:09:58.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- I mean, it’s absurd.\N- Absolutely.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:58.34,0:10:00.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not to mention it is a public good.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:00.05,0:10:01.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, certain academic research.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:01.99,0:10:04.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I need to be able to access\Nthat research regardless.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:04.51,0:10:10.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, I don’t have $79.99 \Nor...to do that.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:11.20,0:10:13.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not selling cars.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:13.82,0:10:15.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Even the coolest car in existence.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:19.38,0:10:23.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If I worked for Elsevier,\NI could afford it.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:23.18,0:10:25.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, or any one of those.\NI mean, it's such a…
Dialogue: 0,0:10:25.46,0:10:28.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anyway. You know. You guys are doing it,\Nyou know, it's so…
Dialogue: 0,0:10:30.95,0:10:33.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the money just corrupts\Neverything, you know?
Dialogue: 0,0:10:33.66,0:10:36.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You've got the money, you've got the\Ngovernment, and everybody's all...
Dialogue: 0,0:10:36.87,0:10:39.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it is like the science gets lost.\NHonestly, it gets lost.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:39.91,0:10:42.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My wife had a\Npulmonary embolism.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:42.81,0:10:44.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they're not sure why.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:44.23,0:10:47.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And nobody is still sure\Nwhy she had a pulmonary embolism.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:47.53,0:10:51.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It could be a number of different things,\Nand so I started doing the thing I do,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:51.31,0:10:53.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is get on the Internet\Nand start doing research.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:53.87,0:10:56.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you hit all these medical research paywalls
Dialogue: 0,0:10:56.12,0:10:58.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where people are doing these studies about PE,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:58.03,0:11:02.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I can’t afford to spend the money\Nto read a research paper
Dialogue: 0,0:11:02.05,0:11:06.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,only to discover that it’s not relevant\Nto her. Relevant to our situation.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:06.08,0:11:07.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It might be. It might not be.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:07.90,0:11:10.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there's not enough information\Nin front of it for me to tell!
Dialogue: 0,0:11:10.80,0:11:13.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it could save her life!
Dialogue: 0,0:11:14.15,0:11:17.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The reason that we have\Nresearch is we're trying to solve
Dialogue: 0,0:11:17.27,0:11:19.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,problems in the world.\NWe're trying to cure diseases,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:19.77,0:11:22.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're trying to figure out clean water,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:22.70,0:11:25.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're trying to figure out\Nhow to take poverty to zero.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:25.62,0:11:31.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're trying to completely wipe out\Nparticular disease states once and for all.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:31.65,0:11:35.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, if you want to do that, we've got\Nto make sure that everybody has access.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:35.67,0:11:39.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not just rich countries,\Nnot just people who have Ph.D.s,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:39.69,0:11:42.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but everybody gets\Nto read scientific research,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:42.55,0:11:45.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think about it, and then\Ncontribute their ideas.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:45.62,0:11:49.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And when large portions of the population\Ndon’t have access to research,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:49.14,0:11:52.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the odds of us solving big problems\Nare significantly lower.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:52.07,0:11:55.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The publishers have been\Npart of curating the scholarly dialogue
Dialogue: 0,0:11:55.37,0:11:58.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for centuries.\NAnd, in that respect, they are vital.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:58.41,0:12:05.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At the same time, we have a global\Npopulation, that the vast majority
Dialogue: 0,0:12:05.34,0:12:09.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,does not have access to research\Nabout current developments
Dialogue: 0,0:12:09.26,0:12:15.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in science, medicine, culture,\Ntechnology, environmental science.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:15.59,0:12:21.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And are faced with the prospect of trying\Nto make sense of the world without access
Dialogue: 0,0:12:21.61,0:12:25.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the best knowledge about it.\NAnd, in some sense, that is tragic.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:26.43,0:12:31.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Western universities have\Nreally great funds for their libraries,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:31.14,0:12:32.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so, they are in the...
Dialogue: 0,0:12:32.86,0:12:37.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they have the capacity to purchase the \Njournals, give access to their students.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:37.88,0:12:41.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, in context of developing countries,\Nlibraries are really poor.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:42.31,0:12:45.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, you eventually end up doing everything\Non your own without any support
Dialogue: 0,0:12:45.83,0:12:47.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the university or college.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:47.65,0:12:50.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And even if you're trying to approach\Nyour faculties or professors,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:50.68,0:12:53.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you get the same answers,\Nthat {\i1}"we did it the same way,{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:12:53.70,0:12:56.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}and you’ll have to do it\Nthe same way as well."{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:12:56.33,0:13:00.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, it just keeps going, and we don’t get\Na concrete result out of it.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:00.25,0:13:04.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, my research was more\Nin very fundamental physics.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:04.27,0:13:06.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Special relativity, there.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:06.30,0:13:08.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And many of these\Npapers, again, was
Dialogue: 0,0:13:08.99,0:13:10.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}"you'll have to pay for it."{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:13:10.82,0:13:14.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would say I’d never\Npay it for any paper,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:14.62,0:13:18.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,especially in the economy of Venezuela,\Nright now, it's even worse, unfortunately.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:18.67,0:13:21.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But even when I was a student there,\Nyou just kind of
Dialogue: 0,0:13:21.79,0:13:25.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,take your credit card\Nand buy something from the Internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:25.52,0:13:28.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, from the lack of access,\Na movement has sprung out.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:28.64,0:13:31.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that movement is called Open Access.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:33.27,0:13:36.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In its simplest form,\NOpen Access is,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:36.09,0:13:39.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, free and\Nunencumbered access to, um, information.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:39.99,0:13:43.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Very simply, it's a way to\Ndemocratize information.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:43.11,0:13:46.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it’s to reduce disparity\Nand to promote equality.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:46.14,0:13:49.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There’s lots of academics out there\Nwho can build on top of the research
Dialogue: 0,0:13:49.53,0:13:52.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that’s gone before if they have\Naccess to all of the research.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:52.89,0:13:56.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You might have some of the greatest minds\Nof our generation
Dialogue: 0,0:13:56.09,0:13:59.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,living out in Central African Republic who\Ndon’t have access to any of the content.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:59.73,0:14:04.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, what they can build on top of this;\Nhow can they help move things further faster?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:04.76,0:14:07.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think that is what\NOpen Access is all about.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:07.78,0:14:11.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's allowing people who want\Naccess to the knowledge
Dialogue: 0,0:14:11.87,0:14:14.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to have access to the knowledge\Nand take it further.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:15.43,0:14:20.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think being passionate\Nabout Open Access is great.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:21.35,0:14:23.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Where I get concerned is
Dialogue: 0,0:14:23.46,0:14:26.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when somebody’s\Npassion for Open Access
Dialogue: 0,0:14:26.48,0:14:30.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,leads them to be unwilling to think\Nabout the costs of it,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:30.30,0:14:31.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as well as the benefits of it.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:31.93,0:14:36.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I get concerned when Open Access\Nbecomes a religion
Dialogue: 0,0:14:36.05,0:14:38.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or when it becomes a halo,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:38.07,0:14:44.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that requires you to love\Nwhatever it's placed over.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:44.20,0:14:50.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If we lose our ability, or, worse,\Nour willingness to think critically,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:51.02,0:14:54.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to think as critically and analytically\Nabout an Open Access model
Dialogue: 0,0:14:54.85,0:14:58.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as we do about a toll access model,\Nthen we are no longer operating
Dialogue: 0,0:14:58.87,0:15:03.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the realm of reason and science;\Nwe're now operating in the realm of religion.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:03.79,0:15:08.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, I'm a religious person myself,\NI've got nothing against religion,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:08.82,0:15:12.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it's important not to confuse\Nit with science.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:12.94,0:15:15.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I can see how,\Nespecially if you’re on the other side,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:15.65,0:15:18.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it would appear religious.\NThere is a lot of belief for sure, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:15:18.89,0:15:21.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is a belief-based\Nmovement for a lot of people.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:21.81,0:15:28.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But a lot of the most powerful pieces of the\Nmovement come from the biomedical literature.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:28.84,0:15:33.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,From parents who can’t access it, right?\NFrom family members who can’t access it.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:33.26,0:15:37.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And those take on the element of witness\Nand testimony that is religious,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:37.99,0:15:39.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at least in overtone, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:15:40.01,0:15:46.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there's real power in witness and testimony,\Nthat is part of evangelical movements.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:46.13,0:15:50.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we can have a nerdy conversation\Nabout innovation,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:50.86,0:15:54.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or I can give you an emotional story;\Nwhich one goes more viral?
Dialogue: 0,0:15:55.09,0:15:58.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Movements need to take all kinds, right?\NMovements are bigger than organizations;
Dialogue: 0,0:15:58.94,0:16:01.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're bigger than people\Nwhen they work, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:01.37,0:16:05.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's kind of why they work: they take\Non this rolling avalanche aspect.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:06.19,0:16:09.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For me, why I am\Ndoing this is because of the
Dialogue: 0,0:16:09.30,0:16:11.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,benefits to research efficiency.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:12.61,0:16:14.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to see increased\Nresearch efficiency overall.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:14.99,0:16:16.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is my overall goal.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:16.15,0:16:19.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you said, closed science was the way to\Ndo that, I would be supporting closed science.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:19.79,0:16:23.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But that research efficiency\Ncomes with increases in quality,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:23.69,0:16:28.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,increases in inclusivity, increases in \Ndiversity, increases in innovation.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:28.78,0:16:34.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just having more people that\Ncan do something is a benefit.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:34.04,0:16:35.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have big problems to solve.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:35.44,0:16:37.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was very much\Ninvolved, deeply involved
Dialogue: 0,0:16:37.38,0:16:41.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the early days\Nof Open Access in life sciences.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:41.41,0:16:50.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And our hope was that Open Access would \Nnot only bring the very significant change
Dialogue: 0,0:16:50.43,0:16:55.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in access; it seemed completely crazy\Nthat most of research is not available
Dialogue: 0,0:16:55.46,0:16:57.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to most of the people who need it.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:57.58,0:17:01.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I had a visit to the University of \NBelgrade a few years ago,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:01.30,0:17:04.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I was meeting with grad students\Nbefore my lecture,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:04.43,0:17:06.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we were going\Naround the room
Dialogue: 0,0:17:06.53,0:17:08.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking about what\Neach researcher did,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:08.75,0:17:11.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}were working on\Nfor their thesis.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:11.28,0:17:15.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And almost everyone in the room\Nwas working on implicit cognition.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:15.60,0:17:17.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it was amazing that there were\Nso many students
Dialogue: 0,0:17:17.62,0:17:20.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,working on this particular area of research,\Nand so I said,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:20.45,0:17:26.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}"Why are all of you doing this? How has that\Nbecome this be the area that's so popular?"{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:17:26.47,0:17:31.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the immediate response was, well,\N{\i1}"We can access the literature in this area."{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:17:31.60,0:17:33.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}"What do you mean?"{\i0} I said.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:33.42,0:17:37.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}"Well, there is a norm of all the\Nleading researchers in your field,{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:17:37.44,0:17:41.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}all of you put your papers online.\NSo, we can find them.{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:17:41.17,0:17:43.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}And we can know what’s going\Non right now in this literature{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:17:43.19,0:17:47.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}that we can’t get access to\Nin other subdisciplines."{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:17:47.22,0:17:49.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was blown away by that, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:49.34,0:17:54.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That they made some decisions about what\Nto study based on what they could access.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:56.34,0:17:59.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When I was\Ndirecting the Library
Dialogue: 0,0:17:59.86,0:18:05.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we had made\Nmajor cuts in our subscriptions
Dialogue: 0,0:18:06.36,0:18:10.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because of budgetary constraints,\Nsame sort of thing that libraries do,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:10.89,0:18:15.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we did a series of focus groups to try\Nto see how people were coping with that.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:15.81,0:18:24.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And one of the people who really stood out\Nto me was a young M.D. Ph.D. student
Dialogue: 0,0:18:24.84,0:18:28.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when he talked to his advisor.\NAnd the advisor said:
Dialogue: 0,0:18:28.96,0:18:33.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}"These are interesting areas.\NRead widely in these areas."{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:18:33.38,0:18:40.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he said, {\i1}"So, I have to read widely,\Nbut I realize my ability to read widely{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:18:41.00,0:18:45.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}is constrained by what you have access to.{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:18:45.40,0:18:55.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}And so my dissertation topic is going to be\Nconstrained by what you are able to afford,{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:18:55.42,0:19:01.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}because I can't get at and read this other\Nmaterial that you no longer have access to."{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:19:01.45,0:19:04.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Some of the world’s\Ngreatest challenges
Dialogue: 0,0:19:04.45,0:19:05.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are not going\Nto be solved
Dialogue: 0,0:19:05.87,0:19:08.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by one individual\Ngroup of researchers.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:08.80,0:19:13.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we know that interdisciplinary\Nresearch and collaboration
Dialogue: 0,0:19:13.06,0:19:15.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the way to get to those\Nsolutions faster.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:15.94,0:19:21.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And because so many of those\Nchallenges are so prevalent
Dialogue: 0,0:19:21.97,0:19:25.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- clean water, food security,\Nglobal warming, public health -
Dialogue: 0,0:19:25.99,0:19:28.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's so many challenges\Nthat need to be solved
Dialogue: 0,0:19:29.02,0:19:32.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there's no reason why we wouldn’t \Nwant to do everything we can
Dialogue: 0,0:19:32.25,0:19:34.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to drive that collaboration\Nand to enable it to happen.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:35.36,0:19:42.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Medical knowledge and incredible expertise\Ncan be found in every far corner of the world;
Dialogue: 0,0:19:42.69,0:19:44.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we just haven’t tapped into it too often.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:45.41,0:19:51.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, um, a friend of mine is a pediatric \Nheart surgeon at Stanford.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:51.34,0:19:55.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He would observe when\Nhe was visiting India,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:55.56,0:19:59.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and went to an institution\Nthat has now treated 10 times
Dialogue: 0,0:19:59.48,0:20:03.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as many patients as him,\Nand they're able to get
Dialogue: 0,0:20:03.11,0:20:06.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,almost as good results\Nas he gets in Stanford,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:06.13,0:20:09.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they can do this between\N5 and 10 percent the cost.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:09.66,0:20:13.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, to me, that’s genius!\NThat is genius!
Dialogue: 0,0:20:14.18,0:20:19.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, you would think that we in the\NWestern world would want to
Dialogue: 0,0:20:19.20,0:20:23.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understand what's going on in India as\Nmuch as they would want to see
Dialogue: 0,0:20:23.13,0:20:26.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what we're able to do with all\Nour marvels of technology.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:26.15,0:20:30.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is an easy conclusion to draw\Nthat scholarship must be open
Dialogue: 0,0:20:30.08,0:20:31.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in order for scholarship to happen.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:32.00,0:20:36.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so it’s sort of a curiosity\Nthat it isn't already open.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:36.02,0:20:41.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But that's really because of the\Nhistory of how we got here.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:41.55,0:20:45.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Every since the scholarly journal was\Nfounded or created in the mid-17th century,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:45.77,0:20:48.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,authors have written for them without pay,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:48.80,0:20:51.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they've written for impact,\Nnot for money.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:51.22,0:20:56.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To better understand the research process, we\Ntraveled to where research journals originated:
Dialogue: 0,0:20:56.44,0:20:58.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Royal Society of London.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:59.17,0:21:01.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am Stuart Taylor, I am\Nthe publishing director here at the Royal Society.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:01.69,0:21:04.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Royal Society is Britain’s\Nnational academy of science.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:04.52,0:21:09.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was founded in 1660\Nas a society of the early scientists,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:09.34,0:21:11.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,such as Robert Hook and Christopher Wren.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:11.36,0:21:14.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A few years after that, in 1665,\NHenry Oldenburg here,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:14.89,0:21:18.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who's the first secretary of the society,\Nlaunched the world’s first science journal
Dialogue: 0,0:21:18.91,0:21:19.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,called Philosophical Transactions.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:20.14,0:21:24.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that was the first time that the\Nscientific achievements and discoveries
Dialogue: 0,0:21:24.96,0:21:27.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}of early scientists\Nwas formally recorded.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:27.58,0:21:30.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}And that journal\Nhas essentially set the model
Dialogue: 0,0:21:30.81,0:21:32.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}for what we now\Nknow today of science journals.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:33.73,0:21:39.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Embodying the four principles of archival,\Nregistration, dissemination and verification.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:39.86,0:21:44.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that means having your discovery\Nassociated with your name and a particular date,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:44.88,0:21:50.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,having it verified by review by your peers,\Nhaving it disseminated to other scientists,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:50.90,0:21:52.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and also having it archived for the future.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:53.53,0:21:57.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As soon as there were digital networks,\Nscholars begin sharing scholarship on them.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:57.55,0:22:01.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ever since, let’s say the early nineties,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:01.18,0:22:04.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,academics have been seriously\Npromoting Οpen Αccess.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:04.38,0:22:08.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not just using the network to distribute\Nscholarship and research,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:08.50,0:22:12.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but promoting it and trying\Nto foster it for others.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:12.12,0:22:14.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It may sound like I'm making this up, but
Dialogue: 0,0:22:14.42,0:22:17.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}I really felt at the time\Nand I was not alone,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:17.55,0:22:22.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}that if you have\Nsome wonderful idea
Dialogue: 0,0:22:22.47,0:22:26.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or you make some breakthrough,\Nyou like to think it’s because
Dialogue: 0,0:22:26.50,0:22:36.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you had some inspiration or\Nyou worked harder than anyone else,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:36.22,0:22:40.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but you don’t like to think it was because\Nyou had privileged access to information.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:40.84,0:22:47.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, you know, part of my intent in 1991\Nwas just to level the playing field,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:47.87,0:22:52.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is, give everybody access to\Nthe same information at the same time,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:52.49,0:22:55.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and not have these, you know,\Ndisparities in access.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:55.52,0:23:00.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Forty percent of all the papers published\Nin the New England Journal of Medicine
Dialogue: 0,0:23:00.24,0:23:02.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- and then the New England Journal\Nof Medicine is arguably
Dialogue: 0,0:23:02.26,0:23:04.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the most impactful journal in the world -
Dialogue: 0,0:23:04.09,0:23:10.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but 40 percent of the authors\Ncame from a 150-mile radius of Boston,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:10.31,0:23:13.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is where the New England Journal\Nof Medicine is headquartered.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:13.54,0:23:15.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Publishing is really an insiders’ game.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:15.56,0:23:21.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those of us who are insiders have much greater\Naccess to publishing and also even reading,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:21.58,0:23:23.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as we come from the richer of the institutions.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:24.28,0:23:27.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}A lot of people are\Nsuffering as a result
Dialogue: 0,0:23:28.00,0:23:30.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}of the current\Nsystem in academia.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:31.43,0:23:36.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have a lot of doctors who would benefit\Nfrom having the latest information
Dialogue: 0,0:23:36.46,0:23:40.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about what the best care\Nto give to their patients.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:40.58,0:23:42.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is so much research\Nthat has been done already.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:43.00,0:23:48.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's ridiculous sometimes when we try\Nto access a paper that was written in 1975.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:48.83,0:23:52.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's still behind a paywall.\NIt doesn’t make any sense.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:52.85,0:23:55.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Research journals have come a long way\Nsince 1665.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:56.18,0:24:00.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We now have the ability to reach\Nmany around the globe, simultaneously
Dialogue: 0,0:24:00.20,0:24:04.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for next to nothing, and\Nthat is a huge benefit for scholars.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:04.32,0:24:08.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Many authors think that if they\Npublish in a conventional journal,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:08.35,0:24:13.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,especially an important conventional\Njournal, a high-prestige, a high-impact,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:13.47,0:24:16.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,high-quality conventional journal,\Nthey're reaching everybody
Dialogue: 0,0:24:16.40,0:24:19.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who cares about their work.\NThat's false.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:19.42,0:24:23.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're reaching everybody who is\Nlucky enough to work in an institution
Dialogue: 0,0:24:23.14,0:24:25.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's wealthy enough\Nto subscribe to that journal.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:25.67,0:24:30.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And even if those journals are relative\Nbest-sellers or if they're must-have journals
Dialogue: 0,0:24:30.39,0:24:36.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that all libraries try to subscribe to, there\Nare still libraries that cannot subscribe to them.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:36.22,0:24:39.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And many libraries have long since\Ncanceled their must-have journals
Dialogue: 0,0:24:39.74,0:24:40.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just because they don’t have the money.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:40.96,0:24:44.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, authors get the benefit\Nof a wider audience,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:44.49,0:24:49.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and by getting a wider audience\Nthey get the benefit of greater impact,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:49.11,0:24:52.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because you cannot impact in your work,\Nyour work cannot be built upon,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:52.84,0:24:56.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or cited or taken up or used,\Nunless people know what it is.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:56.86,0:24:59.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And most scholars write for impact.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:59.68,0:25:02.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Part of what academics\Ndo is study questions,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:02.91,0:25:07.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,try to figure out some insight about\Nwhat they've learned about a phenomenon
Dialogue: 0,0:25:07.63,0:25:11.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then share that with others\Nso then those others can then say,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:11.46,0:25:14.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}"Ah, what about this, what about that,\Nare you sure?"{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:25:14.38,0:25:16.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or {\i1}"Oh yeah, let me use this\Nin some new way."{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:25:17.00,0:25:21.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, really, scholarship is a conversation,\Nand the only way to have a conversation
Dialogue: 0,0:25:21.93,0:25:26.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is to know what each other is saying\Nand what the basis is for what they're saying.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:26.75,0:25:32.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so openness is fundamental to\Nscholarship doing what it’s supposed to do.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:32.78,0:25:35.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}There's one of those\Noriginal myths about Open Access.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:35.80,0:25:38.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}There's no peer review,\Nthere's low quality, and so forth.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:38.52,0:25:40.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}And we know that
Dialogue: 0,0:25:40.52,0:25:42.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when you put your stuff out in the open,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:42.55,0:25:47.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people notice, you know,\Nif you BS your way out there,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:47.57,0:25:51.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you’ll be caught very quickly.\NIf you miss something important,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:51.60,0:25:55.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in terms of a piece of evidence,\Nsomeone will point you to it.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:55.62,0:26:00.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you are not careful in your argument,\Nor you miss a piece of important literature,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:00.64,0:26:04.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,someone will tell you that.\NAnd so you, as a researcher,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:04.17,0:26:08.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would benefit from these observations\Nand criticisms and other things,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:08.79,0:26:13.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so your research will be better,\Nnot lower quality as a result of it!
Dialogue: 0,0:26:14.42,0:26:16.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}If you don’t work\Nin this space, you don’t have any contacts,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:16.74,0:26:19.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}you don’t have any concept\Nof the, sort of, dramatic impact
Dialogue: 0,0:26:20.36,0:26:23.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}that these tensions\Nare going to have on everyone.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:23.69,0:26:24.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, when you see the EPA\N[Environmental Protection Agency]
Dialogue: 0,0:26:24.91,0:26:28.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,take down its climate change section\Nof its website, there's real,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:28.94,0:26:32.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,concrete impact to not having\Ninformation be available.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:32.86,0:26:36.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's plenty of free information out there,\Nand we all know how problematic it can be.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:36.88,0:26:40.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just because it's free doesn't make it good;\Njust because it's paid for doesn't make it bad,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:40.21,0:26:45.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think that's the tension that this\Ncommunity’s always going to have to deal with.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:45.83,0:26:48.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Of course, in the very early days\Nof the Open Access movement,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:48.86,0:26:55.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Open Access journals, this notion that\NOpen Access publishing is not of high quality
Dialogue: 0,0:26:55.88,0:26:58.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was very predominant,\Nbut that has changed now.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:59.40,0:27:00.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Open Access, to us,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:00.83,0:27:05.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,does not at all denigrate\Nthe level of peer review, you know.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:05.95,0:27:09.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If anything, you know,\Nit's going to be even better.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:09.58,0:27:13.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}The reward system in\Nmany countries, in many developing countries
Dialogue: 0,0:27:13.40,0:27:16.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}still mirrors our own,\Nin the UK and the U.S.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:16.52,0:27:22.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We did a survey recently, asking\Nabout our researchers' perceptions
Dialogue: 0,0:27:22.65,0:27:25.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of Open Access, and lots of them,\Nyou know, were saying
Dialogue: 0,0:27:25.67,0:27:27.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}"Great, Open Access is exactly\Nwhat we need, we need{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:27:27.70,0:27:31.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}to tell the whole world about our research.\NEveryone needs access. This is great."{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:27:31.72,0:27:37.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,However, when we asked the researchers\Nwhat their priorities were for journals,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:37.74,0:27:41.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where they wanted to publish their journals,\Nthe top things were impact factor,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:41.77,0:27:45.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,indexing, and at the bottom of the list,\Nwas Open Access.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:45.59,0:27:49.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So whilst they were saying great things\Nabout Open Access,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:49.72,0:27:55.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unfortunately because of the\Nreward structures, it's nearer the bottom,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:55.64,0:27:57.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they still need\Nto progress their career.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:57.46,0:28:01.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}Open Access has been\Nwith us for some time.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:03.09,0:28:06.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}The impact has not been\Nas quick as I expected,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:07.11,0:28:17.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I'm kind of worried that in the next\N5 years, how fast are we going to move?
Dialogue: 0,0:28:17.64,0:28:23.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}Is there a reason\Nthat research journals are so
Dialogue: 0,0:28:23.56,0:28:24.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}lethargic to change?
Dialogue: 0,0:28:25.36,0:28:27.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}Well, you might call them\Nresilient [laughter].
Dialogue: 0,0:28:28.48,0:28:34.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think there is a certain degree\Nof lethargy. As you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:34.51,0:28:38.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,academics are probably the most\Nconservative people on the planet.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:38.33,0:28:41.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, yes, they may be\Ninnovating with their research,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:41.36,0:28:45.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but academic structures\Nare very slow to change.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:45.98,0:28:47.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}The academic community\Nis very, very conservative.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:48.90,0:28:53.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}It’s very hard to change,\Nmake significant system changes,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:53.53,0:28:57.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the academic community.\NOur process for tenure now
Dialogue: 0,0:28:57.45,0:28:59.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the same\Nas it was 150 years ago.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:00.48,0:29:04.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Authors are very aware,\Nthat their chances of progress,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:04.50,0:29:06.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to continue their jobs,\Ngetting funding,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:06.62,0:29:11.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whole aspects of their careers\Ndepend on where they publish.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:12.55,0:29:19.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this need created\Na sort of prison
Dialogue: 0,0:29:19.27,0:29:23.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in which authors cannot have\Nan alternative way to publish
Dialogue: 0,0:29:23.30,0:29:25.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,except to publish in those journals
Dialogue: 0,0:29:25.82,0:29:28.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are most likely to help\Nthem in their careers.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:28.04,0:29:30.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the big obstacles\Nfor Open Access is actually
Dialogue: 0,0:29:30.27,0:29:35.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the current resource assessment\Nand tenure and all these things.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:35.69,0:29:39.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because there still is a tendency\Nto say, okay,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:39.72,0:29:43.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you publish four papers\Nin the higher-rank journals,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:43.74,0:29:45.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you are producing better research.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:45.76,0:29:51.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It might be so that those papers\Nwill never be cited or never read.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:51.29,0:29:56.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But they take the journal impact factor\Nas a proxy for quality.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:56.41,0:30:01.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we know, all of us, that it is\Nsubject to gaming and fraud.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:01.94,0:30:05.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}The impact factor is\Nactually the average number of citations
Dialogue: 0,0:30:06.16,0:30:12.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}that that journal gets over,\Nit’s a 2-year window.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:12.18,0:30:19.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The impact factor is a perverse metric\Nwhich has somehow become entrenched
Dialogue: 0,0:30:19.61,0:30:25.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the evaluation system and the way\Nresearchers are assessed across the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:25.83,0:30:31.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can charge for a Gucci handbag\Na hell of a lot more
Dialogue: 0,0:30:31.06,0:30:33.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you can for one that you just\Npick off the high street.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:33.28,0:30:36.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}Impact factors have\Nperverted the whole system
Dialogue: 0,0:30:36.28,0:30:38.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}of scholarly\Ncommunications massively.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:38.55,0:30:43.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Even their founder, Eugene Garfield,\Nsaid they should not be used in this way.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:43.43,0:30:46.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then you must begin to wonder that,\Nyou know, there’s something wrong.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:46.45,0:30:49.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the faux-scientific nature of them,\Nyou know,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:49.36,0:30:51.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the fact that they are accurate\Nto three decimal places,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:51.50,0:30:59.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they’re clearly not, they're\Ngiven this pseudoscientific feel to them.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:59.02,0:31:01.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Royal Society, a few years ago,\Nsigned something called
Dialogue: 0,0:31:01.85,0:31:05.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the San Francisco Declaration on Research\NAssessment, or DORA for short,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:05.27,0:31:11.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which essentially calls on institutions\Nand funders to assess scientists
Dialogue: 0,0:31:11.30,0:31:13.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in ways that don’t use the impact factor.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:13.82,0:31:18.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So going much more back to peer review,\Nand actually looking at the work itself
Dialogue: 0,0:31:18.34,0:31:20.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rather than simply relying on a metric
Dialogue: 0,0:31:20.37,0:31:23.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which many people believe to be\Na very flawed metric.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:24.59,0:31:27.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}But the way of\Naddressing the problem is to
Dialogue: 0,0:31:27.09,0:31:29.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}to start divorcing\Nthe assessment of an academic
Dialogue: 0,0:31:29.92,0:31:31.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the journals in which they're publishing.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:31.34,0:31:34.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if you are able to evaluate\Nan academic based on the research
Dialogue: 0,0:31:34.36,0:31:37.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they produce on their own, rather than\Nwhere that research has been published,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:37.39,0:31:42.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think you can then start to allow\Nresearchers to publish in, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:42.51,0:31:46.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,journals that provide better service,\Nbetter access, lower cost, all these things.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:46.60,0:31:53.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Journals that are highly selective reject work\Nthat is perfectly publishable and perfectly good,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:53.16,0:31:56.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but they reject it because\Nit's not a significant advance,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:56.08,0:32:02.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or it's not going to make the headlines, in the same\Nway as a paper on disease or stem cells might.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:02.11,0:32:04.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it gets rejected, and then\Ngoes to another journal,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:04.53,0:32:07.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,goes through another round of peer review,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:07.56,0:32:10.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you can go through this\Nthrough several cycles.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:10.38,0:32:17.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in fact the rationale of launching\NPLOS One was exactly to try and stop that,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:17.90,0:32:25.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rounds and rounds of wasted both\Nscientists' time, reviewers' time, editors' time,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:25.73,0:32:28.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and ultimately, you know,\Nat the expense of science and society.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:29.25,0:32:36.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}The time it takes to go through\Nthe top-tier journals and to maybe not make it,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:36.78,0:32:38.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then have to go to another journal,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:38.60,0:32:43.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,locks up that particular bit of research\Nin a time warp.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:43.52,0:32:46.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is in the interest of research funders\Nwho are paying, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:46.55,0:32:48.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,millions or billions of dollars\Nto fund research every year,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:48.57,0:32:51.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for that research to then\Nbe openly available.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:51.20,0:32:53.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}There have been a lot of\Ndifferent ways to come at this,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:53.40,0:32:55.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}and a lot of people\Nhave said, let’s be incremental,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:55.52,0:32:59.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}first we’ll create\Nwhat's called green Open Access,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:59.14,0:33:03.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where you'll just provide access to the content\Nbut no usage rights that are associated with that.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:03.97,0:33:07.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Gates Foundation said,\N{\i1}"That's only half a loaf,{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:33:07.69,0:33:11.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}we're not in the half a loaf business,\Nif you're gonna do this, go all the way."{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:33:11.72,0:33:15.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I really applaud them for\Nnot wanting to take the middle step.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:15.74,0:33:19.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They have enough foresight\Nand, frankly, leverage
Dialogue: 0,0:33:20.06,0:33:22.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to demand getting it right\Nthe first time around.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:22.99,0:33:25.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}From the Foundation's\Nprospective we were able to,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:25.71,0:33:28.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}through our funding,\Nwork with our grantees to say,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:28.54,0:33:32.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}{\i1}"Yes, we are going to\Ngive you this money, and, yes, we want you to do{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:33:32.36,0:33:36.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}certain scientific and technical research,\Nand yield a particular outcome,{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:33:36.68,0:33:38.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}but we want you to do it\Nin a particular way."{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:33:38.71,0:33:42.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And one of the ways that we want\Npeople to work is to ensure
Dialogue: 0,0:33:42.73,0:33:46.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the results of what they do\Nis broadly open and accessible.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:46.36,0:33:52.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, along with that, we want to ensure\Nthat not only the money that we spend
Dialogue: 0,0:33:52.18,0:33:55.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,directly on our investments\Nand new science and technology
Dialogue: 0,0:33:56.10,0:33:59.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,yield a tangible benefit to those people,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:59.83,0:34:03.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we’d also like to see it to have\Na multiplier effect so that the information
Dialogue: 0,0:34:03.15,0:34:09.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the results of what we funded gets out\Nfor broader use by the scientific community,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:09.38,0:34:13.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the academic community to build on\Nand sort of accelerate
Dialogue: 0,0:34:13.40,0:34:15.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and expand the results\Nthat we are achieving.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:16.22,0:34:20.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- What comes to mind when\Nyou hear of Elsevier?
Dialogue: 0,0:34:20.85,0:34:23.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Oh my goodness. He-he.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:27.17,0:34:32.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes. Elsevier is a pain in the neck\Nfor us in Africa,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:33.20,0:34:36.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because their prices\Nare too high for us,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:36.82,0:34:38.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they don’t want to come down.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:39.34,0:34:45.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}You know, I think\Nwe can say that Elsevier is
Dialogue: 0,0:34:45.47,0:34:47.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}actually a good contributor\Nto the publishing community.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:48.29,0:34:50.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Elsevier. What comes to mind?
Dialogue: 0,0:34:50.62,0:34:55.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}Well, a level of profit that
Dialogue: 0,0:34:55.62,0:34:57.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}I think is\Nunfortunately unpalatable.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:58.44,0:35:02.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And unsupportable, because\Nfrom a University's point of view,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:02.46,0:35:03.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of course, it’s all public funds.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:03.69,0:35:07.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Their licensing practices which have\Ncertainly evolved over time.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:07.71,0:35:12.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, if we look at Elsevier's reuse or\Ncommercial practices over the past 10 years,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:12.94,0:35:16.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think they’ve made a lot of changes\Nthat have made them
Dialogue: 0,0:35:16.36,0:35:18.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more author or researcher-friendly.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:19.48,0:35:24.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there is definitely an evolution there.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:25.71,0:35:29.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}These publishers, whenever\Nwe publish something there,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:28.13,0:35:32.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}this is financed by our departments.\NThis is kind of public money.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:33.96,0:35:36.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we are paying the money,\Nbut they are closing in.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:36.98,0:35:39.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would never characterize\Nthem as a bad actor.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:39.70,0:35:42.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think they do a lot of good\Nfor supporting innovation
Dialogue: 0,0:35:42.73,0:35:45.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and kind of cross-industry initiatives.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:45.95,0:35:48.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}There is a lot\Nof reasons why
Dialogue: 0,0:35:48.70,0:35:51.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}people focus\Non Elsevier as kind of the bad guy.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:52.28,0:35:54.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Have a look at their annual report;\Nit's all online.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:54.90,0:35:57.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their profits are up; their dividends are up;\Nthey’re doing very well;
Dialogue: 0,0:35:57.90,0:36:01.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they made a couple of billion\Npounds in profit last year.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:01.35,0:36:07.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By and large, does our industry\Ntreat researchers well?
Dialogue: 0,0:36:07.97,0:36:12.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Do we act effectively as a responsible\Nmidwife for these important
Dialogue: 0,0:36:12.20,0:36:18.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,scholarly concepts or ideas\Nand make them accessible to the world
Dialogue: 0,0:36:18.52,0:36:23.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and distribute them and reinvest\Nin the community? I would say yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:23.54,0:36:26.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}I personally think\Nthat Elsevier
Dialogue: 0,0:36:27.45,0:36:29.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}comes in for\Na lot of bad press;
Dialogue: 0,0:36:29.57,0:36:31.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some of it is deserved\Nand earned, I think.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:31.79,0:36:35.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I also think they have made a lot of\Nsmart innovations in publishing
Dialogue: 0,0:36:35.82,0:36:38.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we have all learned from.\NI remember when I moved to UC Press,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:38.84,0:36:41.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have moved from 20 years\Nin commercial publishing
Dialogue: 0,0:36:41.66,0:36:46.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into the non-profit university press world, and\Nit turned out that one of the main concerns
Dialogue: 0,0:36:46.19,0:36:49.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of some of the staff head was that\NI was gonna turn UC Press into Elsevier.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:50.71,0:36:56.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which, of course, has not happened.\NBut I... More seriously, I think
Dialogue: 0,0:36:56.04,0:37:00.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that those of us in a sort of non-profit\Npublishing world can actually learn
Dialogue: 0,0:37:00.06,0:37:02.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot from big competitors.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:02.08,0:37:06.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I worked for Elsevier for a year,\Nso I have to say a disclaimer;
Dialogue: 0,0:37:06.11,0:37:10.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I also worked for 15 years\Nfor non-profit scholarly societies.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:10.13,0:37:13.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I was a journal publisher in\Nboth of those environments.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:14.06,0:37:18.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're different environments. And, for me,\Nmy view of commercial publishers was shaped
Dialogue: 0,0:37:18.58,0:37:22.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by my experience coming out\Nof the scholarly society.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:22.10,0:37:26.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I worked for the American Astronomical\NSociety, where our core mission was
Dialogue: 0,0:37:26.13,0:37:29.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to get the science\Ninto the hands of the scientists
Dialogue: 0,0:37:29.15,0:37:31.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they wanted it,\Nthe way they wanted it.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:31.48,0:37:36.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I went to a commercial publisher.\NI was recruited by them;
Dialogue: 0,0:37:36.50,0:37:41.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I thought I was gonna do more of\Nthe same. But that was really not the job.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:41.02,0:37:44.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The job was managing a set of journals\Nto a specific profit margin.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:44.55,0:37:48.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that just wasn’t my cup of tea,\Nit didn’t mesh with the values that I have.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:48.37,0:37:50.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I went back into\Nnot-for-profit publishing.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:50.90,0:37:59.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I do think it's not that they are\Nbad entities, but their goal is
Dialogue: 0,0:37:59.62,0:38:04.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to return profits to their shareholders.\NThey're not mission-driven organizations.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:04.64,0:38:07.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that is fine;\Nthey're commercial companies.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:07.37,0:38:13.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My question is, right now, in the 21st century\Nwhen we have these other mechanisms
Dialogue: 0,0:38:13.09,0:38:16.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that can enable the flow of science,\Nare they helping or hurting?
Dialogue: 0,0:38:16.22,0:38:19.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I would like to see them\Nadjust their models to be
Dialogue: 0,0:38:19.24,0:38:21.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a little bit more helpful\Nrather than harmful.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:21.56,0:38:25.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are absolutely just criticisms\Nthat can be leveled at Elsevier.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:25.19,0:38:27.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are just criticisms\Nthat can be leveled at PLOS.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:27.61,0:38:31.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are just criticisms that can\Nbe leveled at anyone and anything.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:31.64,0:38:37.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I try not to judge the legitimacy\Nof a criticism based on its target.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:37.96,0:38:41.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I try to judge the legitimacy\Nof a criticism based on its content.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:44.18,0:38:46.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Oh yeah, good, I just wanted\Nto make sure someone said this.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:48.11,0:38:51.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I need to talk about what kind\Nof company Elsevier is.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:52.53,0:38:57.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The hostility that they sometimes get,\Nit's not just about the money;
Dialogue: 0,0:38:57.86,0:39:00.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's about the kind of company\Nthey are, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:39:00.88,0:39:05.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's the actions they take often,\Nthey're anti-collegiate.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:05.10,0:39:09.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, when they send take-down notices\Nto academia.edu,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:09.13,0:39:12.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where academics had put up\Nsome pdfs of their research,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:12.35,0:39:14.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then they were forced to\Ntake them down.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:14.28,0:39:18.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Obviously the lawsuit against Sci-Hub\Nas well in 2015.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:18.30,0:39:24.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, yes, both of those things were illegal,\Nbut the academic community doesn't care;
Dialogue: 0,0:39:24.72,0:39:26.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it doesn't really see them in that way.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:26.65,0:39:28.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}When I got the\Ntake-down notice, I didn’t get
Dialogue: 0,0:39:28.85,0:39:31.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}the take-down\Nnotice directly from Elsevier,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:31.90,0:39:35.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}they sent it to\Nan official at Princeton.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:35.10,0:39:43.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the notice itself, it only mentions a handful\Nof papers by two academics at Princeton.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:43.52,0:39:48.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, if you look at Princeton’s websites,\Nthere are probably hundreds if not thousands
Dialogue: 0,0:39:48.84,0:39:52.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of PDFs of published Elsevier papers.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:52.07,0:39:57.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, why did they only target those small amount\Nof papers and just those two researchers?
Dialogue: 0,0:39:58.79,0:40:02.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don’t know this for sure, but I suspect\Nit's because they were testing the waters.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:02.62,0:40:05.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Nothing is preventing Elsevier\Nfrom doing a web crawl,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:05.84,0:40:10.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,finding all the published PDFs, issuing\Nmassive take-down notices
Dialogue: 0,0:40:10.06,0:40:14.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to everybody who is violating their copyright\Nagreement, but they don’t do that.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:14.09,0:40:17.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They do that, because I think they're\Ntrying to tread softly.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:17.11,0:40:21.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They don't want to create\Na wave of anger that will completely
Dialogue: 0,0:40:21.14,0:40:23.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,remove the source of free labor\Nthat they depend on.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:23.66,0:40:29.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, critically, as it happened,\NI was grateful to Princeton
Dialogue: 0,0:40:29.48,0:40:34.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for pushing back against them, and\Neventually they rescinded the take-down notice.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:34.11,0:40:39.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so I think that they have a sort of\Ntaste of what it would mean
Dialogue: 0,0:40:39.43,0:40:43.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to really go up against the body\Nof scientists as a whole.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:44.36,0:40:49.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The way that Elsevier thinks as\Nan organization is just antithetical
Dialogue: 0,0:40:49.88,0:40:55.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to how I think a lot of academics\Nthink about what it is that they do.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:55.90,0:40:59.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We sent Freedom of Information requests\Nto every University in the UK.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:59.93,0:41:07.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, in 2016, Elsevier received\N42 million pounds from UK Universities.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:07.95,0:41:11.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The next biggest publisher was\NWiley; now it's at 19 million.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:11.18,0:41:14.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Elsevier, Wiley, Springer,\NTaylor and Francis, and Sage,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:15.00,0:41:19.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between them they take about\Nhalf of the money, and the rest is spread out.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:20.02,0:41:27.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Elsevier in particular are a big lobbyist.\NIn the European Union and in Washington as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:27.25,0:41:30.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They employ a lot of staff that are\Nbasically full-time lobbyists.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:30.27,0:41:34.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They have regular meetings\Nwith governments around the world
Dialogue: 0,0:41:34.60,0:41:37.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in order to get across their point of view.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:37.32,0:41:41.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is some notion\Nthat publishers have
Dialogue: 0,0:41:41.84,0:41:49.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that publishing has to be very expensive\Nand that publishing requires publicists
Dialogue: 0,0:41:49.37,0:41:55.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and copy editors, PR agents,\Nmanaging editors, and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:55.79,0:41:59.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So many academic institutions,\Nto cope with the burdensome costs,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:59.32,0:42:02.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have elected to buy research journals\Nin a big-deal format,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:02.94,0:42:04.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as opposed to specific journal titles.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:05.86,0:42:09.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}Each institution, \Nfor the most part negotiates,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:09.39,0:42:11.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}you know,\Nwith each publisher for access
Dialogue: 0,0:42:11.51,0:42:15.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}to generally\Nthat publisher's entire corpus of research
Dialogue: 0,0:42:15.31,0:42:17.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or a large portion of it in what's called\Na big deal.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:18.34,0:42:19.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}So, the subscription packages
Dialogue: 0,0:42:19.67,0:42:21.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}which most libraries \Nare involved in,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:21.76,0:42:23.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}because we can \Nsave more money,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:23.96,0:42:26.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}are definitely \Nlike cable subscriptions.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:26.68,0:42:30.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You get a lot of content; you may not like\Nalways like all the programming.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:30.41,0:42:33.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if you wanna pay just\Nfor individuals titles,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:33.53,0:42:36.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the price goes up exponentially,\Nand you can’t afford it.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:36.56,0:42:40.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we're stuck in contracts with content\Nthat we may or may not need
Dialogue: 0,0:42:40.58,0:42:42.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to try to keep the price down.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:42.80,0:42:46.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,However, they can remove content\Nfrom the package without notice.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:46.83,0:42:50.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, if a publisher decides that\Nthey don’t want a vendor to have
Dialogue: 0,0:42:50.65,0:42:55.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a certain piece of content in their package\Nanymore, it can be removed immediately.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:55.38,0:42:57.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That does not mean that\Nyou can cancel the contract;
Dialogue: 0,0:42:58.00,0:43:01.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that just means that you no longer have\Naccess, and we have no control over that.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:01.32,0:43:07.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Although most institutional access to current\Nresearch operates like cable subscriptions,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:07.35,0:43:10.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we found one library that has stood\Nits tangible ground.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:10.67,0:43:18.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What we had to find was a reason for us\Nto be valuable to the research community.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:18.40,0:43:21.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How could we add value to this proposition,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:21.42,0:43:24.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even though we cannot support
Dialogue: 0,0:43:24.54,0:43:26.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}the rising cost of\Nelectronic publications?
Dialogue: 0,0:43:27.24,0:43:29.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}And we realized that\Nwe could that
Dialogue: 0,0:43:29.20,0:43:31.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}by remaining a \Nprint-based library.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:31.17,0:43:33.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- You can’t have a plug pulled\Non by tangible journals.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:33.49,0:43:35.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- No, we can’t. We can’t.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:35.52,0:43:40.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if the power fails, you know,\Nwe still have access to content by flashlight.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:41.04,0:43:45.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You don't need a login or an\Ninstitutional affiliation to use our library.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:45.86,0:43:50.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are open to the public; even though we\Nare privately funded, we are publicly available.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:51.69,0:43:53.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You don’t need a login; anybody can access it.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:53.71,0:43:57.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the modern world, all the sudden,\Nprint-based seems pretty forward leaning.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:57.74,0:44:03.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Maybe half of our problem was getting roped\Ninto digital negotiations in the first place.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:03.66,0:44:11.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, imagine a market for cable television\Nwhere you don't know and you can't find out
Dialogue: 0,0:44:11.50,0:44:14.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what your next door neighbor is paying\Nfor the same package that you have.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:14.92,0:44:17.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- {\i1}"How much are you paying for HBO?{\i0}"\N- {\i1}"I can't tell you,{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:44:17.25,0:44:23.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}I signed a non-disclosure with Comcast."{\i0}\NLibraries, universities do that all the time.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:23.07,0:44:27.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Commercial publishers can capture\Nall of what's called the consumer surplus.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:27.60,0:44:32.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They don't need to pick up a price point\Nthat maximizes their revenue
Dialogue: 0,0:44:32.22,0:44:33.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or profit across the entire market.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:33.94,0:44:37.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They can negotiate that price point\Nwith every single institution.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:38.80,0:44:41.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's important, right, because it's like,\Nif you were buying healthcare
Dialogue: 0,0:44:41.82,0:44:47.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the doctor could look at your financials,\Nand be like, {\i1}"Ah well, if you want this treatment,"{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:44:47.65,0:44:51.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and, you know, they know you're a millionaire,\N{\i1}"then it costs, you know, 500.000 dollars."{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:44:51.97,0:44:54.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whereas if you are somebody who\Ndoes not have as much money,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:54.60,0:44:57.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they can charge less,\Nbut still make a good return.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:57.42,0:45:01.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I feel like, in many ways, that's sort of how\Nthe publishing market functions, right.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:01.44,0:45:04.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The publishers can look at the endowment,\Nhow wealthy an institution is,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:04.87,0:45:07.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how much they've paid over,\Nyou know, previous decades,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:07.89,0:45:10.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then charge right up to\Nthe level that they think is possible.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:11.12,0:45:13.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}There is lot of \Nchoice in here for libraries.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:13.72,0:45:15.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}Libraries don't have \Nto sign those contracts.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:15.84,0:45:20.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And public universities, like the\NUniversity of Michigan have made
Dialogue: 0,0:45:20.06,0:45:23.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a point of being much more transparent\Nabout what we pay for things.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:23.79,0:45:26.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the Big Ten Academic Alliance,\Nof which we're a part,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:26.61,0:45:29.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,does a lot of transparent work\Nwith each other.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:30.34,0:45:36.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I set off to test the Big Ten's transparency.\NUnfortunately, I was met with more of the same.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:38.56,0:45:42.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I always sympathize with the librarians\Nwho rail against Elsevier,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:42.58,0:45:47.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but my response always to them is\N{\i1}"Cancel."{\i0} You don’t cancel.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:47.61,0:45:50.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}"We can't cancel."{\i0} You can cancel,\Nbut you have to make that choice,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:50.73,0:45:53.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and nobody does,\Nso they keep going strong.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:54.46,0:45:55.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}Yeah, and I think \Nthat just, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:55.76,0:45:57.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}that's all the \Nprocess of negotiation,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:57.58,0:46:00.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}it is a traditional factor
Dialogue: 0,0:46:00.58,0:46:02.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}of collections \Nwork in libraries,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:02.60,0:46:08.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there is a lot of issues with that. But,\Nit’s part of a negotiation type of thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:08.53,0:46:11.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I don’t see that changing at all because...
Dialogue: 0,0:46:11.15,0:46:14.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Could a university, like Rutgers, tell somebody\Nwhat they paid for it?
Dialogue: 0,0:46:14.38,0:46:18.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- No, we wouldn't. No.\N- Because you’re contractually bound not to?
Dialogue: 0,0:46:18.20,0:46:22.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yeah, I mean, this is the way it works. So,\Nagain, this is not up to me to comment on
Dialogue: 0,0:46:22.22,0:46:25.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that particular aspect,\Nbut it is the way it works,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:25.25,0:46:29.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's the way it works with all publishers.\NNot the ones that you hear about.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:29.07,0:46:34.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it's, you know, I don’t know what\NI could compare it to, but it's how it works,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:35.10,0:46:38.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so I don’t think there is going to be\Na change in that any time soon.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:39.72,0:46:43.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, I understand why a library\Nwants to get a competitive advantage,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:43.64,0:46:48.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wants to demonstrate that they are\Ngetting an economic benefit,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:48.57,0:46:50.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,getting a larger group of content.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:50.79,0:46:54.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And institutional libraries are\Nvery different from each other,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:54.82,0:46:58.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and some have to really demonstrate\Ndifferent sorts of value,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:58.84,0:47:01.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it is a choice. Libraries don't have\Nto sign confidentiality clauses.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:02.16,0:47:07.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's often done in return for what\Nlooks like a competitive advantage
Dialogue: 0,0:47:08.59,0:47:11.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the short term, but in the long term,\Nit's not a competitive advantage.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:11.91,0:47:16.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It reduces price transparency and\Nincreases the risk of paying more,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:16.14,0:47:18.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as well as potentially paying less.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:18.16,0:47:22.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's fractally secret, right? Everything’s\Na trade secret at every level.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:22.98,0:47:27.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How much this cost, who paid what,\Nwhat the terms were. And that's on purpose.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:28.21,0:47:33.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It prevents collective bargaining, right?\NAnd all these things essentially maintain
Dialogue: 0,0:47:33.13,0:47:35.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a really radically unfair market.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:36.26,0:47:39.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are some people who believe\Nthat there's enough money
Dialogue: 0,0:47:39.48,0:47:43.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right now in scholarly publishing\Nthat it just has to be moved around;
Dialogue: 0,0:47:43.90,0:47:50.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we don’t need to find more money. We just\Nneed to change the way it's in the system.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:50.93,0:47:54.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There has been a growing collective of\Njournals that find it advantageous
Dialogue: 0,0:47:54.95,0:47:56.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to flip away from the for-profit paradigm.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:57.68,0:47:59.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}So, in the case \Nof Lingua/Glossa,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:59.77,0:48:01.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}what happened is that\Nthat community
Dialogue: 0,0:48:01.50,0:48:03.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}of researchers decided\Nthat it was enough and then
Dialogue: 0,0:48:03.62,0:48:07.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the editorial board all resigned.\NAnd then started another journal
Dialogue: 0,0:48:07.35,0:48:11.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on a non-for-profit platform,\NOpen Access, et cetera.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:11.17,0:48:16.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's not many cases of moves like that,\Nbut what this example shows is that
Dialogue: 0,0:48:16.10,0:48:20.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it can, indeed, work. So the entire\Ncommunity, or the leaders of that community
Dialogue: 0,0:48:20.12,0:48:24.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-because that's what basically an editorial board is-\Nleaders of that community
Dialogue: 0,0:48:24.74,0:48:27.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,decided to resign collectively;\Neveryone on the board resigned
Dialogue: 0,0:48:27.77,0:48:33.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then started a new journal with exactly\Nthe same focus and, in a way,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:33.79,0:48:38.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the exact same quality, because\Nwhat gives the quality of a journal?
Dialogue: 0,0:48:38.82,0:48:41.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not the imprint of the publishers.\NIt's actually the editorial chief
Dialogue: 0,0:48:41.64,0:48:45.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the editorial board, who make\Nall of the scientific decisions.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:46.26,0:48:47.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}My name is \NJohan Rooryck,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:47.26,0:48:49.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}I am a professor \Nof French Linguistics
Dialogue: 0,0:48:49.09,0:48:50.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}at Leiden University.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:50.89,0:48:55.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}And I am also\Nan editor of a journal.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:55.21,0:48:59.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,First, I was for 16 years the editor\Nof Lingua at Elsevier.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:59.24,0:49:06.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In 2015, we decided to leave Elsevier and\Nto found an Open Access journal called Glossa,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:06.56,0:49:11.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,basically just the Greek translation\Nof the Latin name to show the continuity.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:11.68,0:49:18.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, the organization of Lingua was, like,\Nwe had five editors total, so a small editorial team.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:18.71,0:49:21.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Four associate editors;\Nme as the executive editor.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:21.23,0:49:24.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then we had an editorial board\Nof about 30 people.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:24.26,0:49:27.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I had prepared all of this\Ntwo years ahead of time,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:27.58,0:49:31.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so, I mean, Elsevier knew\Nnothing until we flipped.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:31.60,0:49:36.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, for two years, between 2013-2015, I had\Nalready talked to a number of people
Dialogue: 0,0:49:36.63,0:49:41.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the editorial board, but, of course,\Neverything under the radar.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:41.45,0:49:44.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I had already talked to all the members\Nof my editorial team to say,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:44.98,0:49:49.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}"Look, I am busy preparing this.\NIf we do this, are you with me{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:49:49.90,0:49:52.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}or are you not with me,\Nbecause I have to know.{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:49:52.52,0:49:55.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}And because or we all do this together,\Nor we don't."{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:49:55.85,0:49:59.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so I all looked them in the eye,\Nand they all said,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:59.87,0:50:02.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,yes, if you manage to do this,\Nwe do it.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:02.100,0:50:07.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Elsevier's editorial body at Lingua shifting\Nto the Open Access equivalent Glossa
Dialogue: 0,0:50:08.02,0:50:12.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,set a precedent of how a successful and\Nrespected journal could change
Dialogue: 0,0:50:12.14,0:50:15.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,its business model and yet maintain\Nfield-specific credibility,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:16.17,0:50:19.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,quality peer-review,\Nand overall impact.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:20.19,0:50:24.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We live in a culture that really prioritizes\Nstart-ups, innovation, and entrepreneurship.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:24.42,0:50:29.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the reality is that, right now, there is\Nliterally one company that can innovate
Dialogue: 0,0:50:29.64,0:50:31.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the scholarly literature,\Nand that's Google.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:32.06,0:50:35.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's, Google's great; I use\NGoogle for everything like most people,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:35.99,0:50:41.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I would kind of like it if there were\Na hundred companies competing for that.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:41.11,0:50:45.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would kind of like it if non-profits\Ncould compete with them and try to
Dialogue: 0,0:50:45.14,0:50:49.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,create alternatives that said, {\i1}"You know what,\Nmaybe this shouldn't be a commercial product;{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:50:49.16,0:50:50.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}it should be a utility."{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:50:49.98,0:50:53.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that kind of competition\Nisn't possible without Open Access.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:53.41,0:50:55.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That kind of competition is\Nbaked into Open Access.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:56.63,0:50:59.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you see this from the large\Ncommercial publishers,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:59.76,0:51:02.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you see them understanding that\Nthis is actually an important argument.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:02.78,0:51:08.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They put like little drink straws in\Nand dribble out little bits of content
Dialogue: 0,0:51:08.70,0:51:13.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you can do text mining on.\NWe can make cars that can drive.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:15.03,0:51:17.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You're telling me that\Nwe cannot process the literature better?
Dialogue: 0,0:51:17.75,0:51:22.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If a car can drive itself because of\Nthe computational powers we have available,
Dialogue: 0,0:51:22.58,0:51:26.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there are more companies competing\Nto make self-driving cars
Dialogue: 0,0:51:26.60,0:51:29.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then there are to process\Nthe biomedical literature
Dialogue: 0,0:51:29.22,0:51:31.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and help us decide\Nwhat drug to take.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:31.25,0:51:34.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is a direct consequence\Nof a lock-up of the literature.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:34.27,0:51:36.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is a fundamental fucking problem.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:36.85,0:51:41.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We started advocating in Congress for taxpayer\Naccess to taxpayer-funded research outputs.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:41.92,0:51:45.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The most common response\Nwe got in our initial Office visits was,
Dialogue: 0,0:51:45.94,0:51:49.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}"You mean the public doesn't\Nalready have access to this?"{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:51:49.17,0:51:54.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like, there was a disbelief among\Npolicymakers. That this was, to them,
Dialogue: 0,0:51:54.59,0:51:57.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the words 'no-brainer' comes to mind.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:57.62,0:51:59.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}Researchers want \Ntheir work to be read.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:00.14,0:52:02.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}They want to advance \Ndiscovery and innovation.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:03.46,0:52:05.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}And while I spend \Na lot of time fighting over
Dialogue: 0,0:52:05.85,0:52:08.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}why work should \Nbe open versus closed,
Dialogue: 0,0:52:08.39,0:52:13.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the end, the real case is, do we want\Ninnovation, or do we not want innovation?
Dialogue: 0,0:52:14.01,0:52:18.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think there is an obvious case\Nfor openness to unlock innovation.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:19.04,0:52:28.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're seeing a lot of very inventive resistance\Nto this from some of the incumbent publishers.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:28.36,0:52:32.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I think there's also\Na generational factor here.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:32.48,0:52:38.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think the younger generation of scientists,\Nof students, of academics,
Dialogue: 0,0:52:38.41,0:52:42.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just the old model\Ndoesn't make sense anymore.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:43.13,0:52:48.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The public should be ashamed\Nfor allowing a model like that to exist.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:48.16,0:52:55.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have, today, a set of tools to\Nshare knowledge, including academic research,
Dialogue: 0,0:52:55.38,0:52:58.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a way that\Nwe couldn't 20 years ago.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:58.05,0:53:02.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, I'm seeing in our engagement\Nwith the academic sector,
Dialogue: 0,0:53:02.07,0:53:06.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and by that, I'm referring\Nspecifically to our grantees,
Dialogue: 0,0:53:06.20,0:53:10.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so we make grants to academic institutions,\Nand it's then the academics
Dialogue: 0,0:53:10.42,0:53:12.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that work there that do the work.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:12.35,0:53:18.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a much stronger appreciation for the\Nrole of Open Access to the results of their research.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:18.97,0:53:22.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, they see it as being\Nsomething that is a benefit to them
Dialogue: 0,0:53:22.99,0:53:27.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be able to have access\Nto information, data, and so forth
Dialogue: 0,0:53:27.42,0:53:30.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's being generated by others,\Nand so there's much more comfort
Dialogue: 0,0:53:30.84,0:53:35.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with this notion of information and\Ndata being open and accessible.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:36.07,0:53:38.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}I'm never sure \Nof the right solution.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:38.59,0:53:40.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1}Actually, when \NI talk to publishers,I think,
Dialogue: 0,0:53:40.90,0:53:43.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an1} {\i1}"Can I do this? \NOr can't I do this?"{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:53:44.31,0:53:49.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, there are so many\Nquestions about copyright;
Dialogue: 0,0:53:49.44,0:53:53.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are so many questions\Nabout intellectual property;
Dialogue: 0,0:53:53.26,0:53:58.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are so many questions about\Nwhat individual authors can and can’t do
Dialogue: 0,0:53:58.09,0:54:02.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if they decide to go and\Npublish with a particular journal.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:02.11,0:54:08.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It just feels like there's so many questions\Nwith each interaction.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:08.33,0:54:12.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One outlet that has streamlined scholarship\Nis that of Sci-Hub,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:12.36,0:54:16.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which continues to connect individuals\Ndirectly with the scholarship they need,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:16.38,0:54:19.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they need it, for free.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:20.81,0:54:23.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}You know, those of us \Nwho work in scholarly communications
Dialogue: 0,0:54:23.71,0:54:28.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}writ large, right,\Nreally have to look at Sci-Hub
Dialogue: 0,0:54:28.25,0:54:31.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}as a sort of a poke \Nin the side that says,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:31.55,0:54:32.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an3}{\i1}"Do better."{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:54:32.38,0:54:37.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We need to look to Sci-Hub and say,\N"What is it that we can be doing
Dialogue: 0,0:54:37.50,0:54:40.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,differently about the infrastructure\Nthat we've developed
Dialogue: 0,0:54:40.53,0:54:44.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to distribute journal articles,\Nto distribute scholarship?"
Dialogue: 0,0:54:44.95,0:54:48.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because Sci-Hub cracked the code, right?\NAnd they did it fairly easily.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:48.97,0:54:52.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think that we need to look\Nat what's happening with Sci-Hub,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:52.90,0:54:56.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how it evolved, who's using it,\Nwho's accessing it,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:56.32,0:55:01.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and let it be a lesson to us for\Nwhat we should be doing differently.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:46.47,0:55:52.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People use websites like Sci-Hub,\Nconsidered the pirate of academic publishing.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:52.69,0:55:55.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's like the Napster of academic publishing.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:55.92,0:56:00.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I know that they've been in legal battles with\NElsevier who shut them down,
Dialogue: 0,0:56:00.54,0:56:04.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they just open up in a different website. It's\Nstill up and running and more popular than ever.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:04.57,0:56:09.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, if I had to give advice to graduate students,\Nor people not affiliated with institutions
Dialogue: 0,0:56:09.79,0:56:13.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that provide access to a lot of these\Njournals, Sci-Hub is a great resource,
Dialogue: 0,0:56:13.11,0:56:16.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it provides it for free. A lot of people don’t\Nfeel guilty about using these resources
Dialogue: 0,0:56:16.74,0:56:20.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just like when Napster came out, because\Nthe industry at present is making too much
Dialogue: 0,0:56:20.76,0:56:24.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,off of the people who are giving\Nof themselves and doing great research,
Dialogue: 0,0:56:24.79,0:56:28.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they're being taken advantage of.\NSo, to take advantage of publishers
Dialogue: 0,0:56:28.81,0:56:34.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and get articles for free that are actually\Nbeing used to educate or to develop things
Dialogue: 0,0:56:34.23,0:56:36.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are used for the public good,\Nit's a trade off that a lot of people
Dialogue: 0,0:56:36.76,0:56:38.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are willing to make.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:38.38,0:56:40.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I am not completely against it.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:06.06,0:57:10.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, I like those acts of what\NI would consider civil disobedience.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:10.08,0:57:14.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think they're important.\NI think they're a moment when we can,
Dialogue: 0,0:57:14.81,0:57:17.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should have open discussion around them,
Dialogue: 0,0:57:17.43,0:57:23.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I fear that the openness of the discussion\Nis there's no nuance at all.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:23.16,0:57:27.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is either, as we've heard, Sci-Hub equals evil.\NLike, it just has to.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:27.78,0:57:34.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sci-hub basically is illegal.\NIt is a totally criminal activity,
Dialogue: 0,0:57:34.10,0:57:40.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and why anybody thinks it’s appropriate to\Ntake somebody else’s intellectual property
Dialogue: 0,0:57:40.53,0:57:43.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and just steal it basically?
Dialogue: 0,0:57:44.55,0:57:45.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That bothers me.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:45.58,0:57:47.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not only about people\Nwho don’t have access.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:47.60,0:57:52.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's even being used by people in\Ninstitutions that have full access,
Dialogue: 0,0:57:52.52,0:57:55.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it works in a very simple\Nand efficient way.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:55.65,0:58:00.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What Sci-Hub shows is the level of\Nfrustration amongst many academics
Dialogue: 0,0:58:00.97,0:58:03.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the number of times\Nthey encounter a paywall.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:32.96,0:58:36.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I just feel like we're in the middle,\Nwe're in this interstitial period,
Dialogue: 0,0:58:36.68,0:58:39.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and everyone wants it to be done\Nas opposed to just saying,
Dialogue: 0,0:58:39.31,0:58:42.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}"You know what? None of us really\Nhas a clue of what's going to happen{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:58:42.33,0:58:43.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}ιn the next 15-20 years."{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:58:44.96,0:58:49.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All we know is that we're\Nat the edge of falling off the cliff
Dialogue: 0,0:58:49.08,0:58:52.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that music fell off of with Napster.\NThat's what Sci-Hub shows me.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:53.00,0:58:57.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Τhere would not be a demand for Sci-Hub\Nif we had been successful
Dialogue: 0,0:58:57.03,0:59:01.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or if the publishing industry\Nhad been successful, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:59:01.55,0:59:06.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Arguably, what we did was to create\Nthe conditions, right, on both sides,
Dialogue: 0,0:59:06.58,0:59:08.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,us and the publishing industry\Nthat led to this moment.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:08.70,0:59:13.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, so, you know, now that you\Nsee the potential of a system
Dialogue: 0,0:59:13.52,0:59:19.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that lets you find any paper. I've been\Nusing Sci-hub to collect my dad's papers, right.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:19.15,0:59:24.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My dad died earlier this year, he was a Nobel\Nlaureate for his work on climate change.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:24.07,0:59:28.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've tried to build an archive of all his papers\Nso I could give it to my son, right.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:28.60,0:59:32.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Can't do it! Price would be in the\Ntens of thousands of dollars.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:32.62,0:59:39.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right. I'm not the only person who needs papers.\NI'm not the only person who's doing it this way.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:39.84,0:59:43.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not trying to redistribute\Nthese things, right.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:43.37,0:59:48.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am literally printing them out into a book. Then\NI’m gonna just staple it for my son, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:59:48.39,0:59:52.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So he knows his grand-dad, what his\Ngrand-dad did, because he won’t remember it.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:52.62,0:59:56.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's a market failure.\NThat’s a tremendous market failure.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:57.84,0:59:59.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Priorities are going to change.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:59.56,1:00:06.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I believe that Elsevier is a business full\Nof smart people, who want discovery to happen,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:06.59,1:00:10.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but don’t have a better idea on\Nhow to make money in the middle.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:10.61,1:00:16.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, unfortunately for them, the internet\Nis the story of breaking down gatekeepers.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:17.04,1:00:26.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're the gatekeeper, standing between,\Nin some cases, research and discovery.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:00.90,1:01:07.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If someone's research is behind a paywall,\Nand it stops me from doing research
Dialogue: 0,1:01:07.42,1:01:11.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in that field in my lifetime, how many\Nmore lifetimes do we have to wait
Dialogue: 0,1:01:11.95,1:01:14.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for somebody else to be able to\Ntake that evolutionary step?
Dialogue: 0,1:01:14.97,1:01:20.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sometimes, innovation is the right person\Nin the right place at the right time,
Dialogue: 0,1:01:20.100,1:01:25.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and all a paywall does is ensure that it's\Na lot less likely that the right person
Dialogue: 0,1:01:25.22,1:01:29.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is going to be in the right place at\Nthe right time to get something done.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:18.14,1:02:22.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Transcript: Elena Milova, Joshua Conway,\Nanonymous lifespan.io member
Dialogue: 0,1:02:22.16,1:02:25.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Synchronization: Giannis Tsakonas