Now, we can start talking about your

family's story during the genocide.

My ancestors, my grandpa and grandma

in 1915, my mom's side was from Marash

and my dad's side was from Boursa.

My mother and father were born and raised

in Aleppo.

Like them, I was born in the

same city.

I went to school in that city. My entire

childhood was spent there.

I went to school in Aleppo and had a good

environment. I have also been

an Armenian language teacher.

I have left all my friends in Aleppo

and came to Yerevan.

Do you know how your grandparents came

to Turkey and to Syria?

It is not really clear how my family

from Marash came...

In 1915, they must have joined the other

Armenians that fled the country and went

to an orphanage in Aleppo.

In that orphanage, they introduced them

to my grandmother and grandfather.

And then, they got married.

On my dad's side, the same

thing happened. They were also raised

in an orphanage.

My grandparents met one another there

and got married.

Do you know what they did for work?

I do not know where they used to work

during that time.

On my dad's side, they owned some land

and agricultural properties.

On my mom's side, it is a bit harder

to know. My family goes back many

generations and it's hard to know

where they worked.

My grandpa was a mechanic.

What else should I say?

Do you know how hard it was to start

their life again in Aleppo after the war?

What difficulties did they face?

Yes, they did go through tough times

during the war.

Firstly, they have lived in metal

shacks. They are called metal shacks

for Armenians. In Arabic, they say

berakatl Armen.

Secondly, the Armenians missed having

a home and moved into their own houses.

Life started to improve and as soon as we

came to Aleppo or Syria in general...

we had some Armenian churches.

Next to the churches, we had Armenian

schools. In the beginning, we have had

year-around schools. The population were

all Turkish speakers.

Since it was mandatory, they spoke Turkish

for 500 years.

When they came to Aleppo, due to the

Armenian schools they attended, the

people became more and more Armenian.

They started teaching Armenian.

From generation to generation,

we feel more Armenian since we speak

Armenian and have Armenian schools.

We also have Armenian

at the secondary level.

In Aleppo, what do you do to remember

the 1915 genocide and April 24th?

On the morning of April 24th, we go to

the cemetery and gather around the chapel

to remember those that we lost by praying

and by lighting candles.

During that time and on some days,

lectures took place in the Armenian

community centers.

From generation to generation,

we continue to remember and to not forget

that we have a problem with keeping

our Armenianhood. It is not only about

April 24th. It is not about tears.

Armenians do get sad and emotional

about what happened to our people.

We have been reborn and are

still living. We are still here. They said

that they are going to kill every

Armenian and leave one. They are going to

put that person in a museum. They did not

succeed in doing that. Because of that,

April 24th is a time of sorrow

for us. At the same time, it is

a victory for the Armenian people.

We are still present. We are still here.

We still have demands and want restitution

from them. We are not sleeping.

We are awake.

From generation to generation, we teach

them Armenian heritage and spirit with

the help of our cultural organizations.

With that, we prepare the next

generation of Armenians.

That is great.

Tell me a bit about your childhood.

My childhood... I was really happy.

Where were you raised? Aleppo! Aleppo!

I was born in Aleppo. In which neighborhood?

Sulaymaniyah! I was born in Aleppo

and grew up there in the same house.

My house is still luckily there.

I had a good childhood and was very happy.

I always had a good life... always.

Which school did you attend?

I went to Lazar Najarian. I attended that

school. I graduated in 1984. In terms of

the different community centers, I do not

want to make a distinction between them.

All of the community centers do their work

in their own way and follow different

principles. The goal that they all share

is Armenians keeping their

Armenianhood in the Diaspora.

We used to go to the theater with my

family. We did not have the choice to

go to one and not the other.

May it be a theater performance or

a literary evening, we have attended most

of them. I have been part of the scouting

ranks for a few years (for a short time).

It was one of the most beautiful years

of my life.

Until when did you go to school?

I graduated with the 1984 class.

High school

After you said...

After that, I studied Armenian Studies .

In university?
-Hamazkayin had opened

their own Armenian Studies department.

A very long time ago, I went to

the British Council.

What kind of work did you do?

I have been an Armenian language teacher.

And... when you were an Armenian teacher,

did you think that it was

your responsibility to teach them

the language and about their culture?

Yes, it is important to know about

their culture. To teach Armenians the

Armenian language is a big responsibility

in the Diaspora.

Our teaching is not limited to learning

how to read and write and studying grammar

and literature. It is also to teach them

Armenian values by introducing

the students to Armenian symbols in order to

make them feel a sense of belonging

to the Armenian culture.

If someone asks them

about who they are

they would say Armenian.

"What does it mean to be an Armenian?"

They should be able to say that

Armenians are the group of people that

lived during the times of Dikran Medz

a long time ago. We have been a prominent

nation from sea to sea. We have had some

well-known Armenians like Viktor Ambartsumian

and Aram Khachaturian.

We have had many famous personalities.

It would be hard to count them all.

We should remember the individuals that

fought for our people and be proud of all

the things they have done for us.

We have to tell the new generation

about this. So, they hear and know

what is being an Armenian and feel

a sense of belongingness.

Only speaking Armenian is not enough.

And which school?

I was at Zvartnots Primary School.

And... do you think that the students

are interested in this subject matter?

The teacher is the person that should

make them interested in it.

They say that learning about literature

can be boring, but it is not like that.

The teacher can get them interested in our

culture, because our culture is very

beautiful. You can make it more

interesting for the students by making

them relate to the subject.

I did all the work. I do not know how much

I succeeded in that since I have only

worked for 10 years. Before that, I worked

with the English language...

not with Armenians.

When you were an Armenian teacher, did you

feel free in Syria to say anything in

school or about what the government allows

and what it does not?

We had permission for 4 hours per week

to teach the Armenian language

in Armenian schools and 2 hours

to teach religion.

We were free. We had Armenian language

and religion books.

We had no restrictions.

We have been very free.

We have also had our own printing press

and our newspapers and printed books

in Armenian. We would easily receive

permission to print from the Syrian

government. Until the time that we did not

make a mistake and say and/or write

something wrong about the government

or against religion, we could print

anything. It was a positive thing to be

an Armenian in Syria. As a minority,

we had many rights.

Everyone was equal. Everyone was equal.

The Arabs, the Armenians, the Assyrians,

and the Kurds, all had equal rights.

Unlike some other minorities, we had

schools, the printing press, theaters,

and scouting ranks. We had all the rights.

We were never treated differently

by the government... not by our last prime

minister and not by the current one.

Did you experience any difficulty?

I know you said that the government did

not cause any difficulty. Did the people?

The people? No, they were very respectful

in regards to us. The Arabs were very

respectful towards us. All of us have had

friendships. We all have had good

and honest friends. We have never been

told you are Armenian...

why do you live here?

You should go back to Armenia. They have

never said that. On the contrary,

they were happy with us. The Arab culture

has always shown respect to the Armenian people.

Do you see a difference between

Armenians and non-Armenians in terms

of how they were treated? A difference?

All Syrians are one. There could not be

any difference between them. As Syrians,

we were equal. We had not noticed any

difference. When there were religious

events, like Easter or other holidays,

we would celebrate them differently

than others since we were Christian.

In general! In general, we were one.

There was no difference

between us. On the contrary,

we would visit each other. They would

visit us during the holidays. We would

visit them and wish them happy holidays.

We have never felt any difference.

When you got older (apart from work),

what would you do in your life?

I had a strong social life. Strong social life!

I like having friends. I have gone to

a lot of places with my brother like

historical castles and other antiquities.

Syria is a rich country with its

historical sites. If you have heard of

the city of Palmyra, it is very known.

I visited a lot of ancient places in Syria with my brother.

Do you want

to explain anything from your life

before the war?

Before the war, I do not have anything

specific to talk about. I already said

everything. I talked about the type

of life we had... a good and happy life.

Difficulties! We cannot call it

difficulties. These are normal

difficulties that we have overcome

in life. Before the war, it was very good.

After the war, however, everything changed.

Before 2011, were there

any signs that a war was going to

start soon?

For the most part, there were signs.

Things happened. Some governments

threatened others.

Middle Eastern countries have

always been in danger. The worry about

a war starting has always been there.

But until the last minute, you cannot know

that for sure a war will take place.

Maybe, they will come to an agreement.

You will get convinced of that and will

always have hope that it will not happen.

When did you know the war in Syria

had started? What were the first signs?

In the beginning, it started at

the outskirts. We heard the sounds.

I visited Armenia for 2 months. I was

going to return to Aleppo. They came

and took over the city.

I stayed here for a while. A lot

of people came from Aleppo. They came

in 2012 in August and September. It was

during that time. I stayed here too. Then,

there were people that returned to Aleppo.

During New Year's Day, I returned too.

I stayed there for 6 months. Then, I went

back. In June 2013, I came back to

Armenia. I came back here.

When you traveled from Syria

to Armenia and from Armenia to Syria... how was it?

The first time, I came here on

an airplane and returned the same way.

The second time, I came with a car.

We came on our own. We passed

the Turkish border and went to Georgia

and after Armenia.

Any difficulties?

Of course, there were going to be some

difficulties. It was evident that we were

going to have some difficulties.

We left illegally. So, we were going

to face some difficulties.

The 6 months that you were in Syria...

Yes. What state was Aleppo in?

It was really bad. It was really bad.

There was no electricity.

There was no water.

Excuse me.

Yes, there was in the beginning.

After...

Always, there was the fear of death.

It was not the fear of death per se, but

the way that someone was going to die.

It was the violent depictions displayed

in videos and photos on YouTube.

More than death, you would worry about

the way you were going to die.

You always heard the people

and the sound of bombs.

At night, it would get worse.

In the morning, it would be less.

And why? I turned back,

because it was safer.

I came back to Armenia, because it was safer.

Why did you go back

to Armenia and then Syria?

I went to Syria. My brother was in Syria.

We were going to celebrate New Year's.

We had no one there. We did not want

my brother to be alone.

I am here. He is there.

I took the risk. I did not want to...

In this world, he only has me

and I only have him.

That is how I went there.

And then, we came here together.

And... are the other families still in Aleppo?

I do not have a mom and a dad.

Other family members? My mom and my dad

have already passed away. My brother...

Before the war?

My mom died before the war due to an illness.

My dad died long before that.

And... the first time you went to Armenia?

Was that the first time that you went to Armenia?

I came here in 2004 with other

teachers for training purposes

for 1 month. I was in love with Armenia.

I had left my soul here. I wanted to

live in Armenia. We had decided with

the family to live here. My brother would

come when he had breaks.

He would say that we should live here

and go back later. We said that it is

hard. We already have good jobs

back home.

And yes, we came.

Did you come in 2012?

The last time was in 2013.

But the first time in 2012? Yes, 2012.

The first first time was in 2004. 2004!

The second one was in 2012.

How was your new life? How did you feel

in Armenia? How was life there?

What were the difficulties?

2012? Yes! You mean the differences

in 2004, right?

No, no, Not the differences.

You said that you went in 2012 just

to visit and you ended up staying

here after. How was it during that time?

Living here is different. Visiting is

different too.

Living here is very difficult. You really

have to have a good job to live here.

And... when you decided that I visited

and now I want to live here, did anyone

help you with where to live?

Or how to find a job?

No! How to help? I stayed in Echmiadzin.

The people were really great. I have had

neighbours... as soon as I moved to

a house, they always came to ask

if I needed anything.

If I said, yes, I need something.

They have offered pots, pans, blankets,

pillows, and clothing.

If I said, yes, I need something.

I would most probably have rooms

full of pots and pans and blankets.

The community always offered to help.

We were always treated well.

[Children yelling in background] 
Children? Yes!

I have received help from Mission

Armenia, and they helped pay my rent.

I have also received books

from the Red Cross (and that is

worth mentioning as well).

There is another organization

called UN in English.

They are always willing and continue to

help us. We also have Syrian centers

called ACMA. They distribute

nutrients/food every 3-4 months.

One of the charities helps us find

doctors. We get help from Syrian doctors,

and they take care of us without pay.

The government has made education free.

Going to the polyclinic is also free.

The government tries to help us

as much as possible.

And... the first time in Armenia...

not the first time but the second time...

did you work during that time? Where?

Here! Here, I taught people at home.

Taught! That is how they say it in Eastern

Armenian. So, I did one-on-one

sessions with kids.

In that way, I was able to make a living.

Second? The third time?

No! When I came here the last time,

I did one-on-one sessions. When I

came here to visit, no,

I just came to visit.

In 2014, the third time that you came,

where did you live? Or now, where do you live?

I lived mostly in Etchmiadzin

and then came to Yerevan. They paid

the rent. When they stopped, I could

no longer continue to pay the rent.

It is hard to survive in Yerevan. I went

back to Etchmiadzin. And there,

Mission Armenia helped me

again. UN paid my rent.

After that, my dream was to live

in Yerevan. There are more job

opportunities in Yerevan.

I applied to UN and Mission Armenia,

and they helped me find a boarding room.

I have been living there for a year and a half now.

And... do you live here

and work with Mission Armenia?

I take part in trainings. I teach kids.

I give English classes

and sometimes Armenian.

Because... learning from Western to

Eastern Armenian is very easy. It is

much easier. The grammar and spelling

and etcetera are much easier.

And... how is life at the new house?

How is life there? I live in a unit

that has 5 boarding rooms.

We all live in the same unit.

The only problem is during winter

we had heating problems.

Last year! Last year, we did not have

a bathroom to take a shower in

or could not even do laundry. We were

not living in good conditions. As soon as

a drop of water would drip on the floor...

it was scary even the elderly could

have slipped. UN paid for the rent

and renovations of this housing unit.

Some renovations were done, but some have

not been completed and I do not know why.

Heating is an important issue

in the winter.

We really need it, but who is going to

help us and how I do not know.

How do you think the government

and the other organizations are going

to help Syrian-Armenians to have

a better and easier life here?

The government does all that it can.

They can only help within their limits.

The organizations and benefactors of other

foreign countries can help us more

effectively if it is well-coordinated

with local authorities.

Which organization and in what way...

that only they know.

I think that the organizations can help us

more, but they have already helped us

(like UN and the Red Cross).

They have already done that.

And... did you feel welcomed by

the Armenians living in Armenia?

Did you feel welcome and see any

differences in the culture?

On the contrary, I was emotionally ready

to live here from way before.

The Armenia population is not that

different compared to Syrian-Armenians.

They have been to and visited Aleppo

already. We are not foreigners. For us,

the Armenian culture is not different.

There can be some small differences.

The country the Diasporan

is from can have an effect on him/her.

Here, it is a purely Armenian culture.

Everything is very beautiful and nice.

There is not that much difference. I got

used to it quickly. I accepted them in

every way from their cuisine to their way

of thinking. It was not that difficult.

With those little cultural and language

differences, how do you keep your

Syrian-Armenian culture here in Armenia?

For the Syrian culture, first is

Western Armenian. I do not want to forget

Western Armenian. I want to pronounce

Eastern Armenian well, but I cannot.

I can talk (said in Western).

I can talk (said in Eastern).

Pronouncing it is difficult.

Unfortunately, we have lost

the traditional pronunciations.

As a Syrian culture, an Armenian

culture, a Syrian-Armenian culture,

we still have the same traditions and

continue to do things in the same way.

Do you still think that you live

in your homeland? This is not the same

homeland that your grandfathers

and grandmothers lived in? Do you still

feel that this is your homeland?

Of course, it is not the same. 100 years

ago, it was different. It is not about

the 100 years. Already 5 years ago,

Armenia was different. Life is more

difficult now. When I came as a tourist

just to visit, my point of view

was different. Now that I live here,

it is more difficult. I saw more

of the difficulties. It is mine

and I belong to it. The sense of

belongingness is very nice. All Armenians

have to put their roots in Armenia.

Every person has to put their roots in

their own land.

When on someone else's land you plant

a tree, you might not have the time to sit

under the tree's shadow. You have to plant

the tree on your own land.

Do you want to stay here? Or go back

to Aleppo? Or go somewhere else?

I want to go back to Aleppo, because

I miss the land that I grew up in

(my birthplace, my home, and my neighborhood).

I have lived there for 46 years before

coming here. Of course, I have a lot of

memories there and I miss everyone there,

but I want to continue to live in Armenia.

And... what do you want to do for work?

On my own? On my own! If I do not find

a good job, there is no hope.

There has to be a job out there.

You should not lose all hope.

To enjoy life, you have to create your own

aspirations. Without work, you cannot

do anything.

What kind of job do you want?

Whatever is available. This is Armenia.

You have to work with whatever work

is available.

You said that you do not have family in Aleppo.

No, I do not have family there.

Do you have any family there?

No, no family.

Yes, I have friends and neighbours there.

Are they still there?

For the most part, they went to Europe.

For the most part, no one is there now.

Is your house still there? Yes, it is.

Is anyone checking up on it? Yes!

In 1915, we had to... no... we were forced

to leave. We did not decide to leave.

Unfortunately, our forefathers were

all displaced in 1915.

From the war, the ruins, and the death

of many people, only a few of the families

made it to Syrian land.

Now, it is very different. No one told us

to leave Syria. Never. We left. There are

still a lot of Armenians that live in

Aleppo, Syria. We left. We had the ability

to leave. We had the convenience to

leave. We wanted to leave. From the people

that came to Armenia with us, they came

here temporarily. We thought the war

would end and we would go back.

That is the reason why we came here.

Now, I do not want to talk for other

people. For the most part, the people

that have work here do not go back.

When they have learned and gotten used to

the life here and have a job here,

I do not think that they will go back.

I highly doubt that Aleppo will go back

to the way it was. It will take a long

time for it to be the same as before.

It will take a long time.

And... for you, personally, what draws you to Armenia?

Personally! Since childhood, the love

for Armenia was in our house, at school,

and in the community centers. There is

a problem of keeping our Armenianhood.

The community centers and the schools

work with this issue. In our house,

patriotism was important. They always

mentioned Armenia. When I came

to Armenia in 2004 for 1 month,

I left my soul here.

I wanted to live here, but we could not

dare to do that because of work. We could

not destroy everything there and start

a new life here. We did not know if

we would succeed or not. I already

wanted to live in Armenia. And now,

I am here.

Very good!

What advice would you give? To give advice

to who? To Syrian-Armenians?

Yes, the ones that returned to Armenia.

I do not give myself permission to give

advice to others, because every

difficulty and experience in life teaches

you something new. You will see that

there is still a lot that you do not know.

For this reason, I cannot give advice

to anybody. Everyone will know what is

convenient for them and will think before

taking the appropriate steps. Like I said

before, for everyone their motherland

has to be their inspiring, final

destination that they will feel

comfortable in.

We do not need to live in foreign lands.

You always have to live on your own land.

The next generation... you will teach

the next generation about their own land.

The tree that I talked about earlier,

you are going to plant it on

your motherland. That is a beautiful

statement.

Can you tell me about yourself

in two words? About myself?

What are those two words?

I am proud that I am Armenian. I am still

having some difficulties and do not know

what the future will bring, but I am happy

that I live in Armenia. I always wanted to

live here.

I am thankful to the Armenian people

here that were always ready to help.

How can Syrian-Armenians help Armenia?

Every person that has a talent or can

bring something new to the table

or has a skill, depending on

the conditions, he/she can help

Armenia. Why not? It depends if

he/she has the right conditions.

He/she has to be given the opportunity.

The conditions have to be met

financially first.

You can work with things you know, so that

you can help others as well. If someone

has a personal store, he/she is not going

to work alone. That individual will have

other employees. Other families will be

able to benefit from them too. This is

the smallest way that they can help.

There are other ways too. They can

be artists or artisans for example.

Syrian-Armenians have some advanced

and knowledgeable workers now that work

in different centers like the national

library and other places that

I do not want to specify.

There are already Syrian-Armenians that

are working and are helping Armenia.

And... how did you make friends and make

a community here? New social life?

With Syrian-Armenians or Armenians from Armenia?

My surroundings are mostly

Eastern Armenians. I like change. I was

emotionally ready to accept all

the changes. Their life is interesting.

It was not difficult to get used to

the change. For me, it was nice.

I have many vast, rich,

and interesting surroundings.

What are? You were so happy when you

were saying Armenia has welcomed you

and maybe you have said it already, but

what are some examples of how

they welcomed you?

How Armenia has welcomed you?

How the Armenians were accepting

of us here? Example? Do you have

examples? How they welcomed us?

Like I said before... how the people?

Do you have stories or examples?

For example, it has happened that I have

been in some sort of transportation

and had to go somewhere

and they knew from the way

I talked that I spoke Western Armenian

and they have paid 100 AMD for me.

They wanted to do something. It has

happened that they did not take 100 AMD

from me or the taxi charged me less.

All these people are people I do not know.

Speaking about neighbours, as soon as

I would move...

they would ask me what I need.

With that question, you know that you are

not alone. There have always been people

who were willing to help us. It was not

only me. There have always been people

and institutions who wanted to help

(like the Red Cross, UN,

and Mission Armenia). They are

non-Syrian organizations. They already

help us. There are a lot of people here

that want to help us.

Is there anything you want to add that

you did not say?

There is a lot.

What kind of thing?

All the Armenians should come back to Armenia.

Please see, for example, my family has

always loved Armenia even before

seeing it. I already loved Armenia. When

we saw Armenia, we fell in love with it...

because you feel like you belong to it

and it belongs to you and is your mom.

With all its bad qualities, it is yours

and you belong to it. We really wanted

to come and move here. Since we always

thought about our work situation, we did

not take the necessary steps to move here.

You can see that the day came and that we

are here now. We should not have come in

this way. We should have been more

organized when we came here. In the end,

we heard that our place is our mother's

lap and not foreign lands. Syria,

my birthplace, is a very good place

in terms of its people and its government.

They are like family to us.

Your motherland should be your country.

All the Armenians, especially those that

had the convenience to work here, can

create jobs. They do not have to think.

There is not that much to think about.

They have to come and start from here

and after them the next generation.

When the Diasporans start to come

to Armenia, especially the youth, they

should not be easily discouraged and have

high hopes. You should create that hope.

From generation to generation, we get

better. We sit and watch the Diasporans

from afar. The love of Armenia is

not enough. We have to do something.

Everyone should do, whatever they can do.

There is a short story.

In the forest, a fire takes place.

All the animals... what does that word

mean? Fire! All the animals think about

saving their souls and run away. All

of a sudden, they see a bird on its back

and its feet up. They ask the bird, what

are you doing? Run away and save your

soul. You can get burnt and die. The bird

says, no, I am holding up the sky.

So, that bird with its small and weak feet

is trying to do its part.

It holds up the sky to protect and save

the forest. Sorry, it was not fire.

You could say that it was the end

of the world.

If everyone does what they

can like the bird in the story and does

not get discouraged, something will

happen. So, we can do something to help.

Anything else?

No, that is all. I am a teacher I can

talk all morning.

We learned a lot from you.