[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:05.90,0:00:08.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hello. Just to check.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:08.18,0:00:09.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Can everyone hear me?
Dialogue: 0,0:00:09.84,0:00:11.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Grand.\NI've never understood
Dialogue: 0,0:00:11.59,0:00:13.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,why that's such a phenomenon\Nwhen people give talks
Dialogue: 0,0:00:13.64,0:00:16.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because if you can't,\Nwhat are you meant to say?
Dialogue: 0,0:00:16.60,0:00:17.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:00:18.45,0:00:21.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But yes, so as said, I'm Os.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:21.17,0:00:24.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm a PhD student\Nat the University of Washington,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:24.33,0:00:26.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where, according to the slide,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:26.25,0:00:29.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I study "Gender, Infrastructure\Nand (Counter)Power."
Dialogue: 0,0:00:30.13,0:00:32.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd ask you all to do me the indulgence\Nof pretending that
Dialogue: 0,0:00:32.56,0:00:37.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's some very explicit, nuanced,\Nthoughtful, academic description
Dialogue: 0,0:00:37.45,0:00:39.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and not just what I write as a catch-all,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:39.36,0:00:42.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I kind of study\Na thousand different things
Dialogue: 0,0:00:42.38,0:00:45.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and fitting them all \Ninto a few words is hard.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:46.69,0:00:48.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But most of the things I study
Dialogue: 0,0:00:48.29,0:00:52.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are around how systems\Nof knowledge enforce particular ideas
Dialogue: 0,0:00:52.31,0:00:53.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of how the world works,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:53.82,0:00:55.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and particular relationships of power
Dialogue: 0,0:00:55.86,0:00:58.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with a specific focus on gender.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:58.92,0:01:00.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm also an ex-Wikipedian.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:00.66,0:01:02.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I spent 15 years as an editor
Dialogue: 0,0:01:02.66,0:01:05.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is maybe where my interest\Nin the nature of knowledge started,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:06.75,0:01:10.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I really can't express\Nhow happy I was to be invited
Dialogue: 0,0:01:10.27,0:01:13.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how glad I am to be here\Nwith all of you,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:13.39,0:01:14.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but particularly James Forrester
Dialogue: 0,0:01:14.90,0:01:16.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who is probably the only person qualified
Dialogue: 0,0:01:16.76,0:01:19.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to countersign \Nmy passport renewal application,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:20.61,0:01:23.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cause it's running out soon\Nand I've been trying to work out...
Dialogue: 0,0:01:23.19,0:01:24.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:01:24.33,0:01:26.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You move to Seattle.\NEverything is great.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:26.20,0:01:27.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then you're like,\N"Oh, the UK government
Dialogue: 0,0:01:27.77,0:01:31.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,requires me to find an ex-priest,\Ncivil servant, or member of parliament,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:31.73,0:01:33.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who's known me for at least 2 years
Dialogue: 0,0:01:33.45,0:01:35.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and who I can ship paperwork to."
Dialogue: 0,0:01:35.00,0:01:36.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That sounds plausible.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:36.57,0:01:38.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:01:38.44,0:01:40.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anyway, but...
Dialogue: 0,0:01:40.19,0:01:43.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I'm here as someone\Nwho has spent a lot of time of...
Dialogue: 0,0:01:45.10,0:01:46.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a number of years--
Dialogue: 0,0:01:46.14,0:01:49.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which I don't like to think about\Nbecause it makes me feel incredibly old--
Dialogue: 0,0:01:49.32,0:01:51.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wrestling with the nature of knowledge
Dialogue: 0,0:01:51.55,0:01:53.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the idea of knowledge--
Dialogue: 0,0:01:53.46,0:01:55.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to talk to you about
Dialogue: 0,0:01:55.32,0:01:57.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what Wikidata looks like
Dialogue: 0,0:01:57.37,0:02:01.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to someone from my background\Nand with my research interests.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:02.43,0:02:05.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I'm not going to spend much time\Non the story of Wikidata itself,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:05.16,0:02:08.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because if you're here, \Nhaving spent 24 hours
Dialogue: 0,0:02:08.43,0:02:10.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,having it brain dumped into you,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:10.23,0:02:11.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're familiar with it.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:11.72,0:02:13.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a big semantic data store
Dialogue: 0,0:02:13.22,0:02:15.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that aims to provide\Nmachine-readable knowledge
Dialogue: 0,0:02:15.14,0:02:16.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a centralized way.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:16.94,0:02:21.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what this looks like\Nis a series of items
Dialogue: 0,0:02:21.13,0:02:23.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with associated properties or statements.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:23.56,0:02:26.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the item for "apple"\Nhas the property "fruit."
Dialogue: 0,0:02:26.84,0:02:28.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, probably.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:28.22,0:02:31.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a Wiki so there's probably\Na long-running edit war
Dialogue: 0,0:02:31.45,0:02:32.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of whether an apple is a fruit,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:32.99,0:02:36.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there's 50 people \Nrunning 300 accounts between them,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:36.16,0:02:37.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's been going for years,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:37.67,0:02:41.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and at this point,\Nif you mention the word apple on Wikidata,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:41.01,0:02:44.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're preemptively banned\Nas someone who, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:44.64,0:02:46.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is secretly a sock puppet
Dialogue: 0,0:02:46.10,0:02:48.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and running an account on one \Nor another side of this.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:50.25,0:02:51.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So as a consequence,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:51.94,0:02:54.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's also a classification system, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:54.23,0:02:56.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A way of sorting and organizing the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:57.12,0:03:00.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, objects or people or concepts
Dialogue: 0,0:03:00.07,0:03:03.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are classified as worth\Nhaving a Wikidata entry or not.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:03.66,0:03:05.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A fruit or not.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:05.58,0:03:06.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in each case
Dialogue: 0,0:03:06.62,0:03:08.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a series of criterion apply
Dialogue: 0,0:03:08.32,0:03:10.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to determine the properties\Nthat an object should have,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:10.78,0:03:12.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the values of these properties
Dialogue: 0,0:03:12.62,0:03:15.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how the objects \Nall relate to each other.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:15.22,0:03:17.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So Wikidata is really an attempt to build
Dialogue: 0,0:03:17.78,0:03:20.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a universal classification system.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:21.91,0:03:25.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And classification systems\Nhave been studied pretty extensively.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:25.98,0:03:28.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One prominent work\Nwhich I'd really recommend people read
Dialogue: 0,0:03:28.96,0:03:32.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if they're interested in this stuff\Nis {\i1}Sorting Things Out,{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:03:32.38,0:03:35.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is book by Geoff Bowker\Nand Susan Leigh Star.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:36.33,0:03:38.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they found that\Nin an ideal universe,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:38.56,0:03:41.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a classification system,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:41.06,0:03:44.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be it universal\Nor over a particular domain,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:44.30,0:03:46.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has three attributes.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:46.10,0:03:49.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first is it operates on consistent\Nand unique principles.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:49.99,0:03:51.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, there's a consistent pattern
Dialogue: 0,0:03:51.65,0:03:55.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of what should be in each category\Nand for what reasons.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:55.56,0:03:59.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The second is all the categories\Nare mutually exclusive.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:59.22,0:04:02.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the third is \Nthat the system is complete.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:02.06,0:04:04.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It contains total coverage of\Nwhat it describes.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:04.57,0:04:06.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this doesn't mean\Nit has to have every single object
Dialogue: 0,0:04:06.99,0:04:08.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that fits into the system.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:08.98,0:04:10.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It just means that in the situation
Dialogue: 0,0:04:10.86,0:04:13.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where it lacks an object
Dialogue: 0,0:04:13.23,0:04:14.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that object then shows up,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:14.83,0:04:16.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there should be\Na consistent mechanism
Dialogue: 0,0:04:16.43,0:04:19.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to work out\Nwhether it should be added or not,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:19.09,0:04:20.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how it should be described
Dialogue: 0,0:04:20.60,0:04:22.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so on, and so forth.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:22.70,0:04:25.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is one small problem\Nwith this which is that:
Dialogue: 0,0:04:26.68,0:04:29.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"No real-world\Nworking classification system
Dialogue: 0,0:04:29.32,0:04:31.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we have looked at\Nmeets these simple requirements
Dialogue: 0,0:04:31.58,0:04:33.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we doubt that any ever could."
Dialogue: 0,0:04:34.00,0:04:35.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Or to put it another way,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:35.27,0:04:37.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all classification systems fail.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:37.76,0:04:41.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All classification systems\Nhave gaps and exceptions.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:42.07,0:04:45.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And obviously, the same is true\Nfor all systems, full stop.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:45.19,0:04:47.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anyone who has ever coded
Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.15,0:04:49.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or simply worked in an environment,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:49.32,0:04:51.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or studied in an environment,\Nor lived in the world
Dialogue: 0,0:04:51.67,0:04:54.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,knows that we've yet\Nto design a single thing
Dialogue: 0,0:04:54.72,0:04:57.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we've thought all the way through.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:57.93,0:05:00.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The problem is that when we take a system,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:00.36,0:05:01.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,classification, or otherwise,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:01.89,0:05:03.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and put it out into the world
Dialogue: 0,0:05:03.20,0:05:07.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and give it power and authority,\Nand integrate it into other systems,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:07.31,0:05:09.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that already have power\Nand authority,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:09.33,0:05:11.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are consequences \Nfor what happens
Dialogue: 0,0:05:11.37,0:05:13.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when the system inevitably fails,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:14.66,0:05:20.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for how it reinforces or undermines\Nexisting relationships of power,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:20.19,0:05:21.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for how it hurts people.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:22.37,0:05:25.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A universal classification system is,\Nin another words,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:25.11,0:05:28.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not merely doomed to failure,\Nit's also doomed to hurt people.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:30.08,0:05:32.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the way that it is structured
Dialogue: 0,0:05:32.35,0:05:37.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is ultimately a series of ethical\Nand political choices as a result--
Dialogue: 0,0:05:37.58,0:05:39.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Who do you want to hurt?\NHow much?
Dialogue: 0,0:05:39.42,0:05:41.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What should be done\Nwhen people are injured?
Dialogue: 0,0:05:42.20,0:05:45.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And those choices have real consequences.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:48.29,0:05:51.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so making these choices\Noften involves confronting the fact
Dialogue: 0,0:05:51.60,0:05:53.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there's very rarely a single
Dialogue: 0,0:05:53.73,0:05:55.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,simple machine-readable interpretation
Dialogue: 0,0:05:55.55,0:05:58.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of something that's true\Nfor all people throughout all history.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:58.70,0:05:59.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anything in the universe
Dialogue: 0,0:05:59.97,0:06:03.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has multiple meanings,\Nand symbolisms, and nuances
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.14,0:06:07.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to different people in different contexts\Nat different times.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:07.27,0:06:10.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But designing a classification system\Nand implementing it,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:10.12,0:06:11.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,designing a system that can make a claim
Dialogue: 0,0:06:11.95,0:06:14.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to having consistent principles,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:14.56,0:06:17.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and covering everything it discusses,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:17.36,0:06:21.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,inevitably involves\Ncutting down on this complexity
Dialogue: 0,0:06:21.15,0:06:25.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and making decisions about what\N"the" meaning of a thing is going to be,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:25.04,0:06:26.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or what array of possible meaning
Dialogue: 0,0:06:26.86,0:06:29.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should be presented\Nand in what sequence.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:30.77,0:06:31.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And as a result,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:31.82,0:06:35.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it involves silencing voices\Nor rendering voices louder.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:35.98,0:06:37.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Again, this has consequences.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.88,0:06:40.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And to see what I mean\Nabout this complexity
Dialogue: 0,0:06:40.26,0:06:43.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and context, and reduction,\Nand the consequences of it,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:44.17,0:06:47.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd like to set through some examples\Nfrom Wikidata itself.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:47.64,0:06:50.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The ones I've chosen \Nare all gender-related because again,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:50.37,0:06:54.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gender is both professionally\Nand personally sort of a key interest.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:55.36,0:06:58.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, the first that I'll start with\Nis transexualism
Dialogue: 0,0:06:58.84,0:07:00.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is described as a "condition
Dialogue: 0,0:07:00.51,0:07:02.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in which an individual\Nidentifies with a gender
Dialogue: 0,0:07:02.96,0:07:06.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,inconsistent or not culturally associated \Nwith their biological sex."
Dialogue: 0,0:07:08.46,0:07:10.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fairly unobjectionable and--
Dialogue: 0,0:07:10.14,0:07:12.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wait, no, it's classified as a disease,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:12.31,0:07:15.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a psychiatric disease at that.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:15.83,0:07:18.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, I know what you're thinking,\Nwhich is this is appalling
Dialogue: 0,0:07:18.66,0:07:20.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but actually it's not as simple
Dialogue: 0,0:07:20.46,0:07:24.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as either of these statements\Nbeing true or false, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:25.09,0:07:27.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're in a category of sort of,\N"true, except."
Dialogue: 0,0:07:28.54,0:07:33.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, take transsexualism\Nis an instance of disease, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:33.37,0:07:35.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Technically, this is true,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:35.68,0:07:37.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in so far as transsexualism
Dialogue: 0,0:07:37.94,0:07:39.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the name of an entry
Dialogue: 0,0:07:39.23,0:07:42.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,under the International Classification\Nof Diseases, version 10.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:43.07,0:07:45.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we should add some complexity\Nand nuance to that.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:45.69,0:07:51.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, the ICD\Nis a classification of literally
Dialogue: 0,0:07:51.16,0:07:53.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everything in the world \Nthat you could have
Dialogue: 0,0:07:53.62,0:07:57.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was in any way involved at all\Nin someone's injury or death.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:58.34,0:08:02.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is in fact illegal to die of something\Nthat is not listed in the ICD.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:02.65,0:08:04.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:08:04.96,0:08:07.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it contains kind of a lot of things,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:07.12,0:08:09.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and transexualism is listed in it
Dialogue: 0,0:08:09.07,0:08:10.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so we classify it as a disease
Dialogue: 0,0:08:10.53,0:08:13.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it's in a classification\Nof diseases.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:13.67,0:08:16.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, here are some other things\Nthat the ICD also lists as diseases
Dialogue: 0,0:08:16.86,0:08:19.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it has specific entries for.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:20.08,0:08:22.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,PA80: Shot by accident.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:24.17,0:08:28.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,PA40.0: Fell off a boat, drowned.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:28.36,0:08:29.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:08:30.16,0:08:35.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,PA41.1: Fell off a boat,\Ndamaged the boat, and drowned.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:35.11,0:08:36.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:08:37.21,0:08:39.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,PA40.1: Fell off the boat,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:39.98,0:08:41.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,didn't damage the boat,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:41.38,0:08:42.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,didn't drown,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:42.60,0:08:44.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,still died of something.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:44.05,0:08:45.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:08:45.73,0:08:48.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And finally, QD50: Being poor.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:48.79,0:08:50.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:08:50.44,0:08:53.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, if any of you\Nhave ever fallen off a boat,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:53.67,0:08:57.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm very sorry but you have a disease
Dialogue: 0,0:08:57.19,0:08:59.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which you should really \Ntalk to a doctor about.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:59.26,0:09:01.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What class of doctor, \NI'm not sure.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:01.21,0:09:03.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It might be a psychiatrist.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:03.13,0:09:04.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Who knows?
Dialogue: 0,0:09:05.71,0:09:07.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you know that's disease, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:09:07.80,0:09:10.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What about health specialty: psychiatry?
Dialogue: 0,0:09:10.52,0:09:13.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, that's also true, sort of.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:13.70,0:09:15.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, psychiatrists are the people
Dialogue: 0,0:09:15.60,0:09:18.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who diagnose the presence\Nof gender dysphoria,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:18.75,0:09:21.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a disconnect between one's sense of gender
Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.07,0:09:24.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and one's sort of like,\Nembodied or perceived gender.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:24.53,0:09:26.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But again, context.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:26.03,0:09:29.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For example, \Nsaying psychiatrists diagnose it
Dialogue: 0,0:09:29.05,0:09:30.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ignores the fact \Nthat none of the treatments
Dialogue: 0,0:09:30.97,0:09:32.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are psychiatric.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:32.33,0:09:34.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You might as well list the specialties
Dialogue: 0,0:09:34.05,0:09:38.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as specialization in hormones
Dialogue: 0,0:09:38.33,0:09:41.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or plastic surgery,\Nor being a personal shopper.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:42.12,0:09:45.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All of these also have some role\Nin people's life trajectories.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:46.04,0:09:47.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They are not listed.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:49.60,0:09:51.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One other useful \Npotential factoid by the way,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:51.70,0:09:54.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that the ICD 10 is actually
Dialogue: 0,0:09:54.20,0:09:57.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the old International Classification\Nof Diseases,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:57.48,0:10:01.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the ICD 11 no longer lists \Ntranssexualism at all,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:01.45,0:10:03.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,much less as a disease.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:04.22,0:10:08.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But my point here is not that Wikidata\Nsometimes contains outdated information
Dialogue: 0,0:10:08.30,0:10:10.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or sometimes contains\Nfalse information,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:10.51,0:10:14.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's that the statements \Nthat are constructed from that information
Dialogue: 0,0:10:14.48,0:10:16.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a consequence of what they leave out
Dialogue: 0,0:10:16.87,0:10:18.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what the results are,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:18.21,0:10:20.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,drop things and add risk.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:21.42,0:10:23.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, one way of structuring
Dialogue: 0,0:10:23.13,0:10:25.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the information that\Nthat entry contained is:
Dialogue: 0,0:10:25.48,0:10:29.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"transsexualism is a psychiatric disease."
Dialogue: 0,0:10:29.54,0:10:31.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this leaves out \Na lot of complexity,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:31.51,0:10:33.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some of which we've discussed.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:33.54,0:10:36.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the greater issue is how it interlocks
Dialogue: 0,0:10:36.18,0:10:39.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and resonates with existing narratives,\Nand existing information.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:40.16,0:10:43.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For example, the idea\Nof transsexualism is a disease.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:43.34,0:10:48.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Does anyone know why \Nthe ICD stops listing it as a disease?
Dialogue: 0,0:10:49.83,0:10:51.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, two reasons.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:51.34,0:10:55.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,First is because calling\Nbeing trans a disease is not accurate.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:55.78,0:10:58.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It does not meet the definition\Nof being a disease.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:59.93,0:11:02.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, the only reason\Nthat anything to do with being trans
Dialogue: 0,0:11:02.76,0:11:07.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is still in the ICD is not\Nout of some objective
Dialogue: 0,0:11:07.76,0:11:11.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, you know, examination\Nof biology or psychiatry
Dialogue: 0,0:11:11.68,0:11:13.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but instead purely pragmatism.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:14.13,0:11:15.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That if you stop listing it,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:15.68,0:11:18.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then insurance companies\Nin places like the U.S.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:18.45,0:11:20.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would stop covering medical care
Dialogue: 0,0:11:20.97,0:11:23.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is associated with being trans.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:24.26,0:11:25.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the second is that
Dialogue: 0,0:11:27.08,0:11:30.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the stigma associated \Nwith having something classified
Dialogue: 0,0:11:30.34,0:11:32.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a disease is substantive,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:33.01,0:11:35.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and when you list transsexualism\Nas a disease
Dialogue: 0,0:11:35.51,0:11:37.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a psychiatric one at that,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:37.04,0:11:39.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you tap into really\Nlong-standing assumptions
Dialogue: 0,0:11:39.37,0:11:41.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and false beliefs about trans people.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:41.68,0:11:43.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Assumptions and beliefs\Nthat have a lot of power.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:43.86,0:11:46.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like, if it's a disease\Nthere must be something wrong
Dialogue: 0,0:11:46.75,0:11:49.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with trans people,\Nsomething that people should fix.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:49.90,0:11:51.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if it's a psychiatric condition
Dialogue: 0,0:11:51.49,0:11:54.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then trans people should\Nbe therapized out of being trans.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:54.74,0:11:59.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In other words, whatever the raw truth\Nor falseness of the statement,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:59.15,0:12:01.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,stripping out its complexity\Nand contextuality,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:01.93,0:12:05.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lets people fit it into their own notions\Nof what it means.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:06.36,0:12:07.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that doesn't end
Dialogue: 0,0:12:07.37,0:12:10.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a neutral objective\Nclassification system,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:10.16,0:12:13.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it ends in things like conversion therapy,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:13.11,0:12:17.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it being legal\Nto beat people to death for being trans
Dialogue: 0,0:12:17.40,0:12:19.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when you find out that they're trans \Nafter you slept with them,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:19.99,0:12:22.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because, you know, \Nsomething's wrong with them.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:22.06,0:12:25.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like why would you \Nbe considered reasonable
Dialogue: 0,0:12:25.92,0:12:27.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to have done this?
Dialogue: 0,0:12:29.57,0:12:33.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So a more accurate framing of this \Nmight be this,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:33.38,0:12:36.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is hard to fit into Wikidata.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:37.67,0:12:40.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And because we can't fit \Nthat into Wikidata,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:40.57,0:12:41.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we strip it down,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:41.78,0:12:43.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we lose all that complexity,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:43.08,0:12:47.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we open up the possibility to, again, \Nreinforce these really dangerous notions.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:49.65,0:12:52.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, let's look at another example,\Nalso from gender,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:52.08,0:12:54.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that is the entry for non-binary.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:55.59,0:12:58.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, as Wikidata informs us,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:58.36,0:13:00.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,non-binary is a range of genders
Dialogue: 0,0:13:00.50,0:13:03.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are neither exclusively man \Nnor woman.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:03.42,0:13:07.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there are some critiques \NI have of the "also known as" section,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:07.06,0:13:08.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that's not the biggest issue here.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:08.62,0:13:10.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No, the biggest issue here
Dialogue: 0,0:13:10.07,0:13:14.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that at no point does this entire page\Nmake any reference to trans people.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:14.97,0:13:18.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, if you go to the entry\Nfor transgender woman,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:18.97,0:13:22.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it says, "opposite to transgender man."
Dialogue: 0,0:13:22.24,0:13:24.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if you go to the entry\Nfor transgender man
Dialogue: 0,0:13:24.09,0:13:26.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it says, "opposite to transgender woman."
Dialogue: 0,0:13:26.92,0:13:28.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you go to this entry,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:28.100,0:13:32.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it has absolutely no reference\Nto trans people whatsoever.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:32.98,0:13:36.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is this complete disconnect\Nand distinction
Dialogue: 0,0:13:36.11,0:13:39.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between non-binary people\Nand trans people.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:40.33,0:13:42.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this might be, seems to be,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:42.32,0:13:44.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a pedantic thing to be concerned about
Dialogue: 0,0:13:44.43,0:13:47.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it's actually a really useful example\Nfor a couple of reasons.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:48.28,0:13:52.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first is that how non-binary people\Nrelates to being trans
Dialogue: 0,0:13:52.82,0:13:54.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is really hotly debated.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:56.25,0:14:00.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Individual non-binary people\Nmay or may not identify as trans.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:02.17,0:14:03.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As a consequence, it's really difficult
Dialogue: 0,0:14:03.76,0:14:07.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make big categorical judgements\Nabout a class of people.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:09.12,0:14:13.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Other people would say that non-binary\Npeople aren't trans,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:13.21,0:14:16.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for whatever reason,\Nor that non-binary people are trans.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:17.58,0:14:20.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, you have to \Nmake a decision at some point.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:20.09,0:14:22.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How are you going\Nto categorize this entry?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:22.11,0:14:24.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What attributes are you going\Nto associate it with?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:26.02,0:14:28.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it's hard to do that in Wikidata
Dialogue: 0,0:14:28.05,0:14:30.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when by necessity \Nthe structure of the platform
Dialogue: 0,0:14:30.84,0:14:33.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is so categorical and so fixed,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:33.07,0:14:36.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you can't really say like,\Nfor some people these things are related
Dialogue: 0,0:14:36.65,0:14:39.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and for others they aren't,\Nand it's actually very politically charged
Dialogue: 0,0:14:39.59,0:14:41.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but you should think about it.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:42.47,0:14:44.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's no objective fact to fall back on.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:44.78,0:14:48.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's very contextual and complex,\Nand disputed.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:50.19,0:14:53.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, how do you fit this in?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:53.64,0:14:54.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anyone?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:57.53,0:15:00.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, this reductiveness\Nisn't just a question of,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:00.15,0:15:02.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Oh well, we haven't fit all\Nthe information in
Dialogue: 0,0:15:02.37,0:15:04.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so I guess it's not perfect."
Dialogue: 0,0:15:04.30,0:15:08.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Again, it fits into preexisting discourses\Nand the preexisting world,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:08.79,0:15:11.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and has the potential\Nto cause very real harms.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:12.70,0:15:14.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's this very long history
Dialogue: 0,0:15:14.18,0:15:17.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of non-binary people \Nnot being considered trans,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:18.18,0:15:20.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going back to, in fact, the foundational,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:20.97,0:15:24.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sort of medical and academic, \Nand authoritative works
Dialogue: 0,0:15:24.87,0:15:28.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on what being trans is\Nand how trans people should be treated.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:29.63,0:15:30.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what this has resulted in
Dialogue: 0,0:15:30.93,0:15:35.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is non-binary people being cut\Nout of access to resources--
Dialogue: 0,0:15:37.09,0:15:41.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,medical care, community membership,\Nany kind of support.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:41.17,0:15:43.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact until 2013,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:43.86,0:15:47.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being non-binary was not a thing\Nyou could possibly be
Dialogue: 0,0:15:47.08,0:15:51.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,while still getting access,\Nto transition-related medical treatment.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:51.23,0:15:54.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you were, and you wanted access\Nyou would have to go to your doctor
Dialogue: 0,0:15:54.51,0:15:58.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and consistently lie,\Nand hopefully get away with it.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:00.12,0:16:03.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, if you want that diagnosis to happen
Dialogue: 0,0:16:03.32,0:16:05.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that your health insurance\Nwill cover things
Dialogue: 0,0:16:05.64,0:16:08.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or that your national health service\Nwill cover things,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:08.74,0:16:10.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you could either be a man\Nor a woman,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:10.84,0:16:12.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and nothing else.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:13.99,0:16:16.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And right now there's a ton of backlash
Dialogue: 0,0:16:16.18,0:16:17.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to non-binary existences
Dialogue: 0,0:16:17.73,0:16:20.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from people who are thinking\Nthat we are a threat,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:20.46,0:16:23.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or something new and novel
Dialogue: 0,0:16:23.09,0:16:26.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when we've been around for just\Nas long as any other kind of trans person
Dialogue: 0,0:16:26.76,0:16:29.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and just not discussed.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:30.62,0:16:32.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And again, the consequence of this
Dialogue: 0,0:16:32.28,0:16:36.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that this silence is reinforcing\Nthose preexisting ideas
Dialogue: 0,0:16:36.95,0:16:41.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of being non-binary has nothing to do\Nwith being trans whatsoever,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:41.52,0:16:47.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it creates and reinforces discourses\Nthat cut people off from care,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:47.24,0:16:49.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and cut people off from community.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:51.27,0:16:55.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And finally, before I stop harping\Non things about gender quite so much,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:56.35,0:16:57.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the hijra.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:57.46,0:16:59.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, according to Wikidata
Dialogue: 0,0:16:59.27,0:17:02.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the hijra are the third gender\Nof South Asian cultures
Dialogue: 0,0:17:02.24,0:17:04.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a sub class of non-binary.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:05.53,0:17:07.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, here's the thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:07.26,0:17:11.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, hijra people fall\Noutside a simple man-woman binary,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:12.43,0:17:14.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but pretty much zero hijra people
Dialogue: 0,0:17:14.28,0:17:16.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would ever define themselves \Nas non-binary,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:16.24,0:17:18.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it just doesn't make any sense.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:18.79,0:17:22.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In a western context, \Nnon-binary people are, by definition,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:22.70,0:17:24.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not man or woman
Dialogue: 0,0:17:24.38,0:17:27.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but as a consequence\Nnot trans man or trans woman.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:28.71,0:17:31.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hijra includes trans women,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:31.18,0:17:34.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and also includes all intersex people,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:34.16,0:17:37.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all sterile people,\Nand a large number of gay people
Dialogue: 0,0:17:37.68,0:17:40.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,while not including trans men
Dialogue: 0,0:17:40.76,0:17:45.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or people who are non-binary,\Nand were assigned female at birth.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:46.70,0:17:48.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All of this is really complex
Dialogue: 0,0:17:48.04,0:17:50.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there are literally books written
Dialogue: 0,0:17:50.06,0:17:54.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the framework of gender\Nand how that fits into it.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:54.58,0:17:56.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the point is\Nthere's not a simple mapping
Dialogue: 0,0:17:56.82,0:17:58.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of western gender notions
Dialogue: 0,0:17:58.80,0:18:01.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to gender notions\Nin the rest of the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:02.12,0:18:04.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Categorizing hijra people
Dialogue: 0,0:18:04.88,0:18:09.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a subset of non-binary people
Dialogue: 0,0:18:09.79,0:18:14.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ignores the fact that most hijra people\Ndo not see themselves that way,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:14.03,0:18:15.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would not see themselves that way,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:15.57,0:18:18.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that the definitions of hijra \Nand non-binary
Dialogue: 0,0:18:18.89,0:18:21.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are completely incompatible.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:22.58,0:18:24.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But again this has the potential
Dialogue: 0,0:18:24.38,0:18:26.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to cause harm.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:26.71,0:18:28.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because the fact of the matter
Dialogue: 0,0:18:28.23,0:18:31.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that western notions of gender\Nare pretty regularly
Dialogue: 0,0:18:31.84,0:18:35.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and over a long period of time\Nexported to the rest of the world
Dialogue: 0,0:18:35.12,0:18:36.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,often by violence.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:37.26,0:18:39.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have these information systems.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:39.93,0:18:42.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have classification systems.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:42.63,0:18:43.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have standards.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:43.64,0:18:46.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have, historically and currently, wars,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:46.65,0:18:49.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all of which are orientated\Naround this idea
Dialogue: 0,0:18:49.03,0:18:52.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the western way of doing things\Nis the only good way
Dialogue: 0,0:18:52.05,0:18:54.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or is the best way\Nand the standard way,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:54.31,0:18:57.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and everyone should conform.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:57.10,0:19:00.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so when we have these big projects\Nwhich are trying to fit the world
Dialogue: 0,0:19:00.80,0:19:04.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in to a very westernized idea\Nof knowledge, because they have to,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:04.33,0:19:07.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because that’s how classification systems\Ndo universally work--
Dialogue: 0,0:19:07.74,0:19:10.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everything has to fit \Ninto one consistent scheme.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:11.40,0:19:13.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is perpetuating that kind of violence.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:17.17,0:19:20.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, you could respond\Nto my concerns and examples,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:20.51,0:19:22.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and rambles with kind of a lot.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:22.54,0:19:25.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One line to take would be,\N"Why does this matter?"
Dialogue: 0,0:19:25.48,0:19:28.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why does Wikidata participating\Nand validating
Dialogue: 0,0:19:28.48,0:19:32.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or invalidating particular discourses\Nhave an impact on the world?
Dialogue: 0,0:19:33.50,0:19:37.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the first answer is\Nit actually doesn't matter if it matters.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:37.13,0:19:39.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It matters that you acknowledge it,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:39.38,0:19:41.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, right now the default framing\Nof Wikidata is
Dialogue: 0,0:19:41.87,0:19:45.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're just collecting all of the knowledge\Nin a machine-readable form,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:45.17,0:19:46.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but you're not.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:46.40,0:19:47.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You're also making decisions
Dialogue: 0,0:19:47.60,0:19:50.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about what should be included\Nand what shouldn't,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:50.12,0:19:52.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how knowledge should be represented.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:52.97,0:19:55.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What complexity is worth representing\Nand what isn't.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:56.67,0:19:59.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And those are ethical \Nand political choices,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:59.33,0:20:01.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and framing the project\Nas simply the result
Dialogue: 0,0:20:01.79,0:20:04.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a million anonymous,\Nand interchangeable monkeys
Dialogue: 0,0:20:04.74,0:20:06.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with an equivalent number of typewriters
Dialogue: 0,0:20:06.75,0:20:09.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,makes it impossible for us\Nto have conversations about it.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:09.83,0:20:13.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Wikidata's organizers and users\Nand funders must understand
Dialogue: 0,0:20:13.45,0:20:16.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they're fundamentally\Nmaking charged decisions
Dialogue: 0,0:20:16.88,0:20:19.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are not neutral\Nor objective at all,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:20.11,0:20:23.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that is not bad but dangerous.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:25.99,0:20:28.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, okay, having accepted
Dialogue: 0,0:20:28.11,0:20:30.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that these are ethical\Nand political decisions,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:30.49,0:20:32.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you could say,\N"Well, if people want their takes
Dialogue: 0,0:20:32.72,0:20:35.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on things included, \Nthey should just contribute."
Dialogue: 0,0:20:35.35,0:20:38.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And marginalized communities\Ndo contribute a lot, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:20:38.90,0:20:41.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a long history\Nof queer communities,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:41.14,0:20:44.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,particularly, being\Nvery early adopters of technology.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:44.36,0:20:47.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so people could\Njust contribute to Wikidata.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:47.85,0:20:53.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like Hijra people could create accounts\Nand start arguing
Dialogue: 0,0:20:53.15,0:20:56.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that actually the entry\Nshouldn't be a subset of non-binary
Dialogue: 0,0:20:56.26,0:20:58.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so, and so forth.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:58.87,0:21:01.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The problem is that \Nthis is unlikely to help
Dialogue: 0,0:21:01.85,0:21:03.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they're the minority,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:03.70,0:21:05.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because many of the voices \Nand perspectives
Dialogue: 0,0:21:05.88,0:21:07.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are currently silenced,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:07.54,0:21:10.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the political and ethical decisions\Nbeing made,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:10.09,0:21:11.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are those of minorities.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:11.85,0:21:14.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I did some number crunching on this.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:14.18,0:21:17.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Wikidata has 20,000 active editors
Dialogue: 0,0:21:17.48,0:21:21.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from a human population\Nof seven billion give or take,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:21.43,0:21:23.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unless you believe that maths is a lie
Dialogue: 0,0:21:23.92,0:21:28.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the world governments,\Ncontrolled by lizards under the Arctic,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:28.44,0:21:31.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is making everything up.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:31.30,0:21:33.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there are approximately...\NUm hmm?
Dialogue: 0,0:21:33.16,0:21:34.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(person 1) You mean they're not?
Dialogue: 0,0:21:34.33,0:21:35.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:21:35.50,0:21:37.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Look, I'll be honest.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:37.41,0:21:39.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If living in the U.S.\Nfor the last five years
Dialogue: 0,0:21:39.18,0:21:40.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has taught me anything,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:40.24,0:21:44.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's that any government assemblage\Nlarge enough to try and control
Dialogue: 0,0:21:44.62,0:21:46.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a big chunk of the human population
Dialogue: 0,0:21:46.41,0:21:50.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would in no way be consistently competent\Nenough to actually cover it up.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:50.52,0:21:51.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:21:51.55,0:21:53.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like we would have found out\Nin three months--
Dialogue: 0,0:21:53.28,0:21:54.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it wouldn't even have been
Dialogue: 0,0:21:54.52,0:21:57.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because of some\Nplucky investigative reporter--
Dialogue: 0,0:21:57.02,0:21:58.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it would have been \Nbecause one of the lizards
Dialogue: 0,0:21:58.86,0:22:00.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,forgot to put on\Ntheir human suit one day
Dialogue: 0,0:22:00.50,0:22:02.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and accidentally went out \Nto the shops for a pint of milk
Dialogue: 0,0:22:02.81,0:22:04.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:22:04.45,0:22:07.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and got caught in a TikTok video.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:07.72,0:22:09.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:22:10.88,0:22:13.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So Wikidata has 20,000 active editors--
Dialogue: 0,0:22:14.50,0:22:16.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of whom we will assume none are lizards
Dialogue: 0,0:22:16.51,0:22:18.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in human suits or otherwise--
Dialogue: 0,0:22:18.62,0:22:21.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from a human population of seven billion,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:21.77,0:22:24.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there are approximately\None million Hijra people in the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:24.70,0:22:27.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if we assume a rate\Nof equal participation--
Dialogue: 0,0:22:27.49,0:22:30.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,setting aside the extreme poverty\Na lot of Hijra people live in
Dialogue: 0,0:22:30.89,0:22:32.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the corresponding impact
Dialogue: 0,0:22:32.24,0:22:34.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on access to things\Nlike reliable internet coverage--
Dialogue: 0,0:22:35.79,0:22:40.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then the combined efforts\Nof 20,000 Wikidata editors
Dialogue: 0,0:22:40.54,0:22:44.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would have to be overwhelmed\Nby 2.85 people.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:45.88,0:22:48.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That doesn't seem particularly plausible.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:51.83,0:22:53.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay, so then you might say,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:53.42,0:22:57.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Well, what if we just have \Nother Wikibase instances
Dialogue: 0,0:22:57.11,0:22:59.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,isn't that the whole thing\Nwe're building towards?
Dialogue: 0,0:22:59.99,0:23:03.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can set up your own Wikibase\Nwith your own perspectives
Dialogue: 0,0:23:03.23,0:23:05.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and your own decisions\Nabout how to classify things,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:05.94,0:23:07.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what to prioritize,\Nand what not to.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:08.21,0:23:11.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Make your own site with your own standard\Nfor what constitutes knowledge
Dialogue: 0,0:23:11.13,0:23:13.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what information is important."
Dialogue: 0,0:23:13.35,0:23:15.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And people could do precisely that.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:15.92,0:23:19.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the problem is \Nthat Wikidata has a lot of heft behind it
Dialogue: 0,0:23:19.31,0:23:23.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is why the decisions\Nthat Wikidata makes have so much import.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:23.74,0:23:26.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's the fact that it already exists.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:26.06,0:23:28.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It has a first movers advantage.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:29.36,0:23:31.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's the Wikimedia brand.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:31.38,0:23:34.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's the funding\Nfrom places like Google.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:34.32,0:23:36.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's the relationships\Nwith other institutions.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:36.90,0:23:39.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When the strategic plan for Wikidata
Dialogue: 0,0:23:39.02,0:23:42.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,calls for engagement \Nand integration with museums,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:42.12,0:23:43.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that doesn't just result
Dialogue: 0,0:23:43.18,0:23:45.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in getting more data for Wikidata.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:45.39,0:23:48.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That also results in Wikidata
Dialogue: 0,0:23:48.61,0:23:52.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the decisions its users make\Npermeating more of reality,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:52.26,0:23:57.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,becoming more of a standard\Nof how data systems work,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:58.12,0:24:01.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and more of a place that is drawn from\Nto populate other spaces.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:04.20,0:24:07.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I keep using this line,\N"Not bad, but dangerous"
Dialogue: 0,0:24:07.11,0:24:10.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to describe classification systems\Nor to describe Wikidata,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:10.96,0:24:11.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I want to reinforce
Dialogue: 0,0:24:11.99,0:24:14.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I don't think that Wikidata\Nis inherently bad.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:16.17,0:24:19.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I do think that its dangers are vast
Dialogue: 0,0:24:19.14,0:24:21.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and are not being properly attended to.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:21.13,0:24:23.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just by looking at gender,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:23.26,0:24:27.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we saw three examples,\Nwhich I pulled very, very quickly,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:27.50,0:24:31.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of situations where even setting aside
Dialogue: 0,0:24:31.81,0:24:34.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the sort of objective "accuracy"
Dialogue: 0,0:24:34.95,0:24:38.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the information that\Na Wikidata entry might contain,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:38.83,0:24:43.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the information it chooses to contain\Nand chooses to prioritize perpetuates
Dialogue: 0,0:24:43.64,0:24:47.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or silences particular discourses,\Nand particular ideas
Dialogue: 0,0:24:47.26,0:24:51.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that have weight in the rest of the world,\Nthat do harm in the rest of the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:52.86,0:24:54.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I picked those examples
Dialogue: 0,0:24:54.23,0:24:57.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not because they're surprising \Nin any way,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:57.95,0:25:00.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or not because they're unique,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:00.02,0:25:04.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but simply to point out that\Nif I could find that many problems
Dialogue: 0,0:25:04.26,0:25:07.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with resonances in wider violent systems
Dialogue: 0,0:25:07.04,0:25:08.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in such a tiny sliver of content,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:08.99,0:25:11.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,imagine how many others\Nare lurking out there.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:13.75,0:25:17.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the goal of Wikidata,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:17.51,0:25:19.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the goal of universal classification
Dialogue: 0,0:25:19.38,0:25:21.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if these dangers are not attended to
Dialogue: 0,0:25:21.58,0:25:24.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,could ultimately result,\Nor will ultimately result,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:24.48,0:25:27.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not in simple like neutral classification,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:27.66,0:25:29.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but imposition.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:29.13,0:25:31.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In saying this is the way\Nthe world works
Dialogue: 0,0:25:31.67,0:25:33.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if you don't like it
Dialogue: 0,0:25:33.37,0:25:37.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then congrats, you should try\Nand fit into it.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:38.68,0:25:41.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I really wish that I had\Na sort of simple answer for this.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:42.47,0:25:43.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:43.53,0:25:44.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's one of the advantages
Dialogue: 0,0:25:44.61,0:25:45.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of switching to academia
Dialogue: 0,0:25:45.98,0:25:48.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,instead of working \Nin an engineering department.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:48.12,0:25:49.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can just show up places
Dialogue: 0,0:25:49.38,0:25:52.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and go, "Everything\Nis really complicated."
Dialogue: 0,0:25:52.31,0:25:54.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Someone should do something about that.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:54.88,0:25:56.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Could I have a grant please?
Dialogue: 0,0:25:56.86,0:25:58.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:25:58.47,0:25:59.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But all I can really do
Dialogue: 0,0:25:59.60,0:26:02.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is point you back to\NBowker and Star's conclusion,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:02.88,0:26:06.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is that this isn't ultimately\Nabout Wikidata,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:06.60,0:26:08.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this isn't a problem with Wikidata
Dialogue: 0,0:26:08.26,0:26:10.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is that the class of systems
Dialogue: 0,0:26:10.86,0:26:14.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that Wikidata is a part of\Nhas never been done safely
Dialogue: 0,0:26:14.24,0:26:16.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there is no reason\Nto think it could be.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:17.70,0:26:19.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so my call is ultimately
Dialogue: 0,0:26:19.58,0:26:22.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not for a particular change,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:22.14,0:26:24.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or for all of you\Nto just go home and give up.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:24.93,0:26:27.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's for the project collectively
Dialogue: 0,0:26:27.18,0:26:29.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and for you all individually
Dialogue: 0,0:26:29.21,0:26:32.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to determine how comfortable you are
Dialogue: 0,0:26:32.44,0:26:35.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with participating and building a system
Dialogue: 0,0:26:35.73,0:26:38.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that makes a claim to universalism,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:38.64,0:26:42.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that makes a claim to neutrality\Nand truth in data,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:43.82,0:26:47.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when we know that that's neither possible
Dialogue: 0,0:26:47.17,0:26:49.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,nor harmless when it fails.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:49.66,0:26:53.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if you are not comfortable\Nwith that, working to articulate
Dialogue: 0,0:26:53.14,0:26:55.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what other ways of doing this\Nthere might be.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:56.01,0:26:58.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And these could look like, for example,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:00.27,0:27:03.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,giving primacy\Nto those local Wikibase installs.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:03.78,0:27:05.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Saying that ultimately
Dialogue: 0,0:27:05.82,0:27:07.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we need to give individual communities
Dialogue: 0,0:27:07.87,0:27:11.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and individual contexts\Nand spaces primacy
Dialogue: 0,0:27:11.32,0:27:13.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in defining what matters to them,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:13.13,0:27:14.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how they wish to be defined.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:14.84,0:27:19.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the conversation about\Nwhich perspective should be included
Dialogue: 0,0:27:19.33,0:27:22.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in some central repository should wait
Dialogue: 0,0:27:22.24,0:27:25.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,until we have \Nthe full range of perspectives.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:26.76,0:27:28.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, that's everything from me.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:28.88,0:27:31.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you, everyone,\Nfor sitting through this.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:31.71,0:27:35.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think we have about 20 to 25 minutes--
Dialogue: 0,0:27:35.02,0:27:38.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(moderator) 25 minutes for questions,\Nso, please, plentiful.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:39.85,0:27:41.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you very much.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:41.89,0:27:44.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(applause)
Dialogue: 0,0:27:46.81,0:27:49.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(person 2) Thank you so much\Nfor this wonderful presentation
Dialogue: 0,0:27:49.70,0:27:52.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the problems inherent\Nin classification systems.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:52.34,0:27:54.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the examples you had\Nis really cool
Dialogue: 0,0:27:54.77,0:27:56.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from a mathematical point of view,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:56.42,0:27:58.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when you were showing \Nthat transgender male
Dialogue: 0,0:27:58.47,0:28:00.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the opposite of transgender female--
Dialogue: 0,0:28:00.94,0:28:03.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or transgender female\Nis the opposite of transgender male
Dialogue: 0,0:28:03.99,0:28:07.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the opposite of cisgendered female.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:07.39,0:28:11.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That makes cisgendered female\Nbe the same as transgender male,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:11.74,0:28:13.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because opposite of is the same--
Dialogue: 0,0:28:13.39,0:28:16.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if A is opposite of B\Nand C is the opposite of B,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:16.59,0:28:18.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A and C are the same.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:18.18,0:28:21.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So actually that's a place \Nwhere it should be different from
Dialogue: 0,0:28:21.03,0:28:22.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and not opposite of,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:22.82,0:28:26.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that involves\Na lot of mathematical issues
Dialogue: 0,0:28:26.19,0:28:28.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when we go to actually ask queries\Nof the database,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:28.96,0:28:31.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so it's really important\Nthat you've pointed out things like that.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:31.71,0:28:34.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, another example \Nof that which I thought was fun
Dialogue: 0,0:28:34.09,0:28:38.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was transsexualism was defined\Nin part further down--
Dialogue: 0,0:28:38.65,0:28:39.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which I wanted to include,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:39.88,0:28:42.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but couldn't find a way\Nof fitting it into the flow--
Dialogue: 0,0:28:42.39,0:28:45.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as the same as sex-reassignment surgery.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:46.58,0:28:48.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which is unintentionally hilarious
Dialogue: 0,0:28:48.30,0:28:50.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because a diagnosis of transsexualism
Dialogue: 0,0:28:50.92,0:28:54.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was historically a prerequisite\Nfor sex-reassignment surgery.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:55.27,0:28:57.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it's not so much a chicken\Nand an egg problem
Dialogue: 0,0:28:57.70,0:28:59.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as the chicken is carrying the egg.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:59.65,0:29:01.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:29:02.16,0:29:04.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah. So yeah, these--
Dialogue: 0,0:29:04.30,0:29:07.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When we look at Wikidata\Nand how much it uses mathematical,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:07.90,0:29:11.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or pseudo-mathematical language of, like,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:11.51,0:29:16.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,opposite of, distinct from,\Nin the set of...
Dialogue: 0,0:29:17.08,0:29:18.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, reality is more complex
Dialogue: 0,0:29:18.89,0:29:21.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than the mathematics\Nwe have to represent it.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:23.44,0:29:25.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't have a smart answer there\Nexcept to say
Dialogue: 0,0:29:25.32,0:29:27.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I used to be \Na quantitative researcher
Dialogue: 0,0:29:27.16,0:29:30.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I left, \Nand there is a reason for this.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:33.09,0:29:34.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(moderator) Next question.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:34.40,0:29:35.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Who raised hands?
Dialogue: 0,0:29:35.74,0:29:37.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I see a hand over there?
Dialogue: 0,0:29:45.90,0:29:47.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(person 3) Hello.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:47.74,0:29:49.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,First of all.\NThank you for this presentation.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:49.64,0:29:51.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was very eye-opening.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:53.42,0:29:55.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to tell you,\Nbut first of all--
Dialogue: 0,0:29:55.97,0:29:58.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's a Wikimedia--\NI don't know if you know
Dialogue: 0,0:29:58.52,0:30:00.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the community LGBT+ user group.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:00.83,0:30:02.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it's a user group,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:02.01,0:30:03.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they have this mailing list,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:03.67,0:30:07.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they discussing actually \Nthe issue of sex and gender in Wikidata,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:07.59,0:30:09.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there is some proposals made
Dialogue: 0,0:30:09.07,0:30:11.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by LGBT+ people to improve it.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:11.65,0:30:14.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, but it's not fully done yet.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:14.90,0:30:18.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, there are some plans,\Npeople working on it.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:18.43,0:30:20.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It would be great\Nif you want to chime in there
Dialogue: 0,0:30:20.28,0:30:21.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and give your opinion
Dialogue: 0,0:30:21.58,0:30:24.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I'm pretty sure\Nyou're more expert than most of us.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:25.15,0:30:28.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I want to give a critique\Nof this thing that you said
Dialogue: 0,0:30:28.00,0:30:29.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about hijra people that said
Dialogue: 0,0:30:29.94,0:30:34.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out of 20,000 editors of Wikidata,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:34.28,0:30:36.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,assuming 2.8 of them will be hijra
Dialogue: 0,0:30:36.59,0:30:39.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they need to overcome\Nall of these 20,000 people
Dialogue: 0,0:30:39.75,0:30:41.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but this is not true.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:41.15,0:30:45.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Lots of people, I say assume 20,000 people
Dialogue: 0,0:30:45.38,0:30:47.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are just unaware of an issue.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:47.92,0:30:49.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They are not bigots
Dialogue: 0,0:30:49.59,0:30:51.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or they are not going to actively
Dialogue: 0,0:30:51.93,0:30:54.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not let people do this.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:54.07,0:30:56.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And lots of them would help\Nif you tell them.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:56.53,0:30:59.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like, as you [inaudible]\Nthat edits Wikidata,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:59.56,0:31:01.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have no idea about this issue
Dialogue: 0,0:31:01.78,0:31:04.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if I knew it \NI would have fixed it.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:04.66,0:31:05.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:05.96,0:31:08.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah. I totally get what you mean.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:08.88,0:31:11.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I want to be clear that I'm not saying
Dialogue: 0,0:31:11.33,0:31:12.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are 20,000 people,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:12.98,0:31:14.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,many of whom are in this room,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:14.28,0:31:16.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,although only a tiny percentage
Dialogue: 0,0:31:16.49,0:31:19.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are vehement bigots\Nand cultural imperialists.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:20.34,0:31:22.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Instead what I'm getting at\Nis the fact
Dialogue: 0,0:31:22.18,0:31:26.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the consensus model,\Nand discussion-based model
Dialogue: 0,0:31:26.94,0:31:31.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the WikiProjects are based on
Dialogue: 0,0:31:31.02,0:31:33.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has a couple of flaws,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:33.08,0:31:34.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and one of the big flaws
Dialogue: 0,0:31:34.30,0:31:39.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that it assumes that all of the voices\Nworth representing are there
Dialogue: 0,0:31:39.24,0:31:42.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and are represented \Nsomewhat proportionately.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:42.31,0:31:46.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Consensus started off\Nas a model in Quaker communities
Dialogue: 0,0:31:46.19,0:31:49.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where literally everyone impacted\Nby a decision was in the room,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:49.10,0:31:52.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because everyone impacted\Nby a decision could fit in the room.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:53.81,0:31:58.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so my point\Nwith this 2.85 number is not to say
Dialogue: 0,0:31:58.70,0:32:01.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you have to argue\Nwith the entire population of Wikidata
Dialogue: 0,0:32:01.42,0:32:03.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,every time you want to make any decision,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:03.50,0:32:07.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but instead to say \Nthat the consensus model
Dialogue: 0,0:32:07.52,0:32:11.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the majoritarian model\Nof what knowledge should be represented
Dialogue: 0,0:32:11.48,0:32:13.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,runs fundamentally into a problem
Dialogue: 0,0:32:13.85,0:32:20.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when the people\Nwho are being underrepresented
Dialogue: 0,0:32:20.69,0:32:22.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are underrepresented.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:23.63,0:32:26.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For another example, and a real one,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:27.51,0:32:29.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Myanmar as a country.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:30.29,0:32:34.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The English Wikipedia claims \Nthat it was called Burma
Dialogue: 0,0:32:34.52,0:32:37.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,until a couple of years ago.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:39.03,0:32:41.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the reasoning for this \Nwas very simple.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:42.56,0:32:45.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The BBC didn't like calling it Myanmar
Dialogue: 0,0:32:45.37,0:32:47.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a load of editors--
Dialogue: 0,0:32:47.57,0:32:49.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(person 4) [inaudible] completely wrong.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:49.38,0:32:50.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sorry.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:50.48,0:32:51.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:32:53.48,0:32:56.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You run into this issue of like...
Dialogue: 0,0:32:56.06,0:32:58.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I know it's not the precise thing,\Nbut it's just...
Dialogue: 0,0:32:58.26,0:33:01.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- (person 4) : [inaudible] it's actually--\N- (moderator) I give you the mic, sir.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:02.18,0:33:03.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yes?\N- (person 4) I'm sorry,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:03.29,0:33:05.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's just incredibly playing \Nbeing ignorant and that...
Dialogue: 0,0:33:05.45,0:33:07.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Okay. Go for it.\N- (person 4) That's an absolute terrible,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:07.76,0:33:10.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,terrible mischaracterization\Nof the political situation in Myanmar.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:10.46,0:33:11.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay. Go for it.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:11.86,0:33:14.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(person 4) Anyways, so basically\Nwhat it is is that the country--
Dialogue: 0,0:33:15.73,0:33:17.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the Burmese language
Dialogue: 0,0:33:17.34,0:33:20.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the country can be referred to as\N{\i1}Myanma{\i0} or {\i1}Bama{\i0}.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:20.11,0:33:21.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yep.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:21.12,0:33:22.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Myanma{\i0} tends to be a more\Nformal register
Dialogue: 0,0:33:22.83,0:33:25.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and {\i1}Bama{\i0} tends to be\Na little bit more informal register
Dialogue: 0,0:33:25.07,0:33:28.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but both are acceptable terms\Nfor the country.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:30.56,0:33:34.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The term Burma came obviously\Nfrom the term {\i1}Bama{\i0},
Dialogue: 0,0:33:36.20,0:33:38.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but what happened was
Dialogue: 0,0:33:38.28,0:33:40.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there is no official...
Dialogue: 0,0:33:41.92,0:33:47.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The country was officially referred\Nto, in English, as Burma
Dialogue: 0,0:33:47.51,0:33:50.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,up until 1988-- 1989, excuse me,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:50.98,0:33:53.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when the military government\Nof the country
Dialogue: 0,0:33:53.92,0:33:56.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,basically decided,\Nthe military junta of the country decided
Dialogue: 0,0:33:56.42,0:33:59.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the country should be\Nreferred to as {\i1}Myanma{\i0}.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:59.45,0:34:04.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ostensibly, this was as an attempt\Nto make the country name
Dialogue: 0,0:34:04.53,0:34:07.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more acceptable to minorities\Nwithin the country.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:08.02,0:34:10.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,However, this is a bit\Nof historical revisionism
Dialogue: 0,0:34:10.16,0:34:12.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because {\i1}Myanma{\i0} and {\i1}Bama{\i0}\Nspecifically refer
Dialogue: 0,0:34:12.86,0:34:15.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the majority ethnicity in the country.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:15.38,0:34:20.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, it was basically the government\Nof Burma at the time--
Dialogue: 0,0:34:20.04,0:34:22.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trying to make the people\Nequivalent to the country,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:22.52,0:34:23.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,therefore implicitly saying--
Dialogue: 0,0:34:23.83,0:34:25.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(person 4) Almost the opposite,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:25.76,0:34:27.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but in a really weird way.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:27.49,0:34:30.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They basically declared that \N{\i1}Bama{\i0} was in reference to the ethnicity
Dialogue: 0,0:34:30.50,0:34:32.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and {\i1}Myanma{\i0} was in reference\Nto the country,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:32.62,0:34:34.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when historically they both\Nrepresent ethnicity
Dialogue: 0,0:34:34.64,0:34:35.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the country.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:35.80,0:34:36.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That makes sense.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:37.06,0:34:42.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(person 4) But what happen was\Nbecause Democrat advocates
Dialogue: 0,0:34:42.01,0:34:45.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,within the country\Nbelieved that the military junta
Dialogue: 0,0:34:45.03,0:34:46.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,did not have the power
Dialogue: 0,0:34:46.82,0:34:48.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be able to change \Nthe name of the country
Dialogue: 0,0:34:48.58,0:34:49.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in any language,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:49.76,0:34:52.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they were not\Nempowered by the people of the country.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:52.18,0:34:57.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and were explicitly\Na military junta that they...
Dialogue: 0,0:34:57.66,0:34:59.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,therefore the country should continue
Dialogue: 0,0:34:59.37,0:35:02.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be referred to Burma in English.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:02.48,0:35:05.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because of the fact that essentially\Nto call it Myanmar is essentially to say
Dialogue: 0,0:35:05.57,0:35:09.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the government of Burma and Myanmar\Nat the time was legitimate.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:10.45,0:35:12.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After the fall of the-- well not fall,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:12.63,0:35:16.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but after like the semi return \Nof civilian government in 2014,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:18.23,0:35:19.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this question came up,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:19.73,0:35:22.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Okay, should we call this country\NBurma or Myanmar in English?"
Dialogue: 0,0:35:22.26,0:35:24.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and essentially,\Nthe facto leader of the country,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:24.70,0:35:26.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Aung San Suu Kyi,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:26.32,0:35:29.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,said that there's nothing \Nin the Burmese constitution
Dialogue: 0,0:35:29.28,0:35:31.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that says you know,\Nwhat you should call it in English
Dialogue: 0,0:35:31.43,0:35:32.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so call it whatever you want.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:33.12,0:35:34.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean the name of the country
Dialogue: 0,0:35:34.49,0:35:38.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is officially the Union of {\i1}Myanma{\i0}\Nin Burmese,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:38.56,0:35:41.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but as far as in English\Nyou can call it whatever you want.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:41.02,0:35:44.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But generally before the return \Nof the civilian government in Burma,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:45.93,0:35:47.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to refer to it is as Myanmar\Nwas essentially
Dialogue: 0,0:35:47.81,0:35:52.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to legitimize the military government.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:52.47,0:35:53.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so therefore,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:53.61,0:35:57.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to call it Burma was generally considered\Nto be a specific political act
Dialogue: 0,0:35:57.34,0:35:58.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to not give that government legitimacy.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:58.95,0:36:02.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah. So, I'm not saying that\Nthat isn't a rationale for it.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:02.76,0:36:06.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm saying that\Non the English Wikipedia specifically,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:06.11,0:36:10.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the page went through seven requested\Nmove discussions
Dialogue: 0,0:36:10.52,0:36:14.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over four years \Nand a mediation cabal decision,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:14.66,0:36:17.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and an attempted structured mediation,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:17.09,0:36:21.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a review of one the closures\Nof the move discussion,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:21.18,0:36:23.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that when you look\Nat the discussions,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:23.88,0:36:26.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,most of the sort of argument\Nback and forth
Dialogue: 0,0:36:26.51,0:36:29.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is not about \Nthe nuanced political situation
Dialogue: 0,0:36:29.07,0:36:30.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the country
Dialogue: 0,0:36:30.20,0:36:33.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it's instead about\Nwhat is the common name in media sources
Dialogue: 0,0:36:33.78,0:36:36.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what do\Ndifferent institutions call it.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:36.37,0:36:38.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that when you look at the discussion,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:38.29,0:36:42.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can see a clear point\Nwhere pretty much every news organization
Dialogue: 0,0:36:42.78,0:36:45.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that isn't the BBC\Nin the English Language,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:45.22,0:36:47.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's considered like a major\Nwestern news source
Dialogue: 0,0:36:47.94,0:36:49.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has switched their language sources,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:49.85,0:36:53.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the debate\Nessentially becomes a debate
Dialogue: 0,0:36:53.55,0:36:56.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of whether we should listen\Nto the {\i1}Wall Street Journal{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:36:56.83,0:36:58.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or the BBC.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:58.53,0:37:02.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the point I'm making\Nis not about the specific politics
Dialogue: 0,0:37:02.92,0:37:04.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the situation, but instead the fact
Dialogue: 0,0:37:04.68,0:37:07.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it's really easy for those decisions
Dialogue: 0,0:37:07.59,0:37:12.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to actually become almost a proxy dispute\Nof how much do we love the BBC,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:14.47,0:37:16.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that when you look at the discussions
Dialogue: 0,0:37:16.14,0:37:18.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you see this really nice case study
Dialogue: 0,0:37:18.17,0:37:21.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the issues of having\Nthose conversations
Dialogue: 0,0:37:21.83,0:37:25.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and having those nuanced,\Nand often insider perspectives
Dialogue: 0,0:37:25.62,0:37:28.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when most of the discussions \Nare centered around
Dialogue: 0,0:37:28.92,0:37:30.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how much we love the BBC
Dialogue: 0,0:37:30.42,0:37:33.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and are coming from people\Nwho are outside the context.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:34.22,0:37:35.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, it's not--
Dialogue: 0,0:37:35.73,0:37:37.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My point in all of this is basically
Dialogue: 0,0:37:37.32,0:37:41.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that even if you're not fighting\N20,000 people,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:42.01,0:37:44.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even if you're only arguing\Nwith 20 people,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:44.80,0:37:47.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,probabilistically, 19 of them
Dialogue: 0,0:37:47.06,0:37:50.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are going to be people \Nwho have very strong opinions,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:50.73,0:37:53.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who don't necessarily bear \Nany negative consequences
Dialogue: 0,0:37:53.40,0:37:56.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of whichever change happens,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:56.10,0:37:59.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but have a particular world view\Nand have decided to stick in it,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:59.54,0:38:03.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so the proposals\Nby the LGBTQ+ group
Dialogue: 0,0:38:03.53,0:38:06.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to change the Wikidata criteria
Dialogue: 0,0:38:06.32,0:38:09.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,might be amazing, I might love them,\NI might not love them,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:09.33,0:38:11.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I haven't read them.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:11.69,0:38:14.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the base premise of this is...
Dialogue: 0,0:38:15.17,0:38:18.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We got the people who show up\Non Wikidata right now,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:18.40,0:38:22.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and those are the representatives\Nof all queer people
Dialogue: 0,0:38:22.05,0:38:25.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and this is the universal rule\Nof what should be done
Dialogue: 0,0:38:25.91,0:38:27.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the content of all queer people
Dialogue: 0,0:38:27.84,0:38:31.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is almost a microcosm\Nof the same problem.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:31.51,0:38:34.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- (moderator) We have another question.\N- Yep.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:34.44,0:38:35.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(person 5) Hi.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:36.14,0:38:38.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think there's another problem
Dialogue: 0,0:38:38.25,0:38:43.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the consensus-based approach we have,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:43.12,0:38:45.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that sometimes we have consensus
Dialogue: 0,0:38:45.75,0:38:48.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on really difficult issues\Non how to deal with that
Dialogue: 0,0:38:48.51,0:38:52.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and [inaudible] that on Wikidata,\Nand nobody is reading the discussion.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:53.86,0:38:55.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Typically, the project Names,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:55.98,0:39:00.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is a really, really old\NWikiProject on Wikidata--
Dialogue: 0,0:39:00.56,0:39:05.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and names are a really, \Nreally complicated issue in the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:05.02,0:39:07.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not every people of the world\Nhave a given name,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:07.95,0:39:12.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not every people have a family name,\Nnot, well, you have an idea.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:12.19,0:39:15.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there are so many\Nwriting systems out there,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:15.26,0:39:18.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we have, actually, a system
Dialogue: 0,0:39:18.10,0:39:22.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which was working\Nfor many cases in the world
Dialogue: 0,0:39:22.18,0:39:23.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on how to use properties,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:23.90,0:39:25.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what items should look like,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:25.90,0:39:28.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how to link these together \Nand everything--
Dialogue: 0,0:39:28.33,0:39:30.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have eight pages--
Dialogue: 0,0:39:30.02,0:39:34.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,nobody is reading that,\Nand someone just added
Dialogue: 0,0:39:34.30,0:39:39.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Latin script family names\Nto a Chinese researcher.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:39.88,0:39:44.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we don't have the names\Nof these researchers
Dialogue: 0,0:39:44.49,0:39:48.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we know for sure \Nthat the value added was wrong.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:48.79,0:39:50.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't have the correct value,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:50.18,0:39:52.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I know this one\Nis not the correct value.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:52.74,0:39:57.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's not just discussing the issue
Dialogue: 0,0:39:57.24,0:39:59.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because we have big discussions
Dialogue: 0,0:39:59.36,0:40:01.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we have actually modeling
Dialogue: 0,0:40:01.08,0:40:07.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is mostly working on\Nand even qualifier on things to deal
Dialogue: 0,0:40:07.57,0:40:09.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with more complicated cases
Dialogue: 0,0:40:09.55,0:40:13.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but people are just,\N"Oh, given names suggest a property,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:13.57,0:40:15.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I will just add that."
Dialogue: 0,0:40:16.05,0:40:17.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- No.\N- Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:18.22,0:40:21.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it's not just \Nhow to model thing,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:21.35,0:40:25.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's really how to explain \Nto people the model,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:25.30,0:40:30.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's a technical part--\Nwe could have tools with suggestions
Dialogue: 0,0:40:30.60,0:40:34.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think the constraint thing\Nwhich went live last year
Dialogue: 0,0:40:34.52,0:40:36.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is a great thing for that.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:36.45,0:40:39.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But even when we know to model thing,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:39.91,0:40:44.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's how to make\Nthis model known to people.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:44.57,0:40:49.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's a bit technical issue\Non how to do that better.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:53.57,0:40:55.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(moderator) So, there was just remark.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:55.09,0:40:57.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's no real question for you?
Dialogue: 0,0:40:58.32,0:40:59.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Or that's a question to you?
Dialogue: 0,0:40:59.74,0:41:02.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- How to do that.\N- (person 5) Yeah, it's a question.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:02.68,0:41:05.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(person 5): Sorry,\Neven if we have the discussion,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:05.97,0:41:07.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(moderator) Yeah, sure.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:08.35,0:41:10.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(person 5) My question,\Nif I was not clear, is that
Dialogue: 0,0:41:10.83,0:41:12.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even when everyone is in agreement
Dialogue: 0,0:41:12.95,0:41:15.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on how to model complicated cases,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:15.21,0:41:20.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how do we make technically\Nthe model known for project
Dialogue: 0,0:41:20.38,0:41:22.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the scope of Wikidata,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:22.38,0:41:26.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so people are not adding\Nthe wrong value in good faith?
Dialogue: 0,0:41:26.69,0:41:30.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because our problem is both.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:30.22,0:41:33.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have trouble\Nmodeling complicated realities,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:33.52,0:41:39.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we have trouble explaining\Nto users, how to follow the model
Dialogue: 0,0:41:39.13,0:41:40.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we actually have.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:40.53,0:41:42.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yep.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:43.44,0:41:45.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I will say that \Nif I could solve that problem
Dialogue: 0,0:41:45.68,0:41:48.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is to reframe it,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:48.23,0:41:52.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how to reliably and consistently\Nenculture new users
Dialogue: 0,0:41:52.60,0:41:57.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into having the same view \Nand understanding
Dialogue: 0,0:41:57.14,0:41:59.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the project space,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:59.52,0:42:01.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then they would let me graduate
Dialogue: 0,0:42:01.55,0:42:03.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and also give me a job.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:03.11,0:42:09.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's the second oldest problem\Nin internet spaces is how to do that.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:09.24,0:42:12.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The oldest problem is writing a system
Dialogue: 0,0:42:12.14,0:42:14.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that will automatically detect insults.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:16.12,0:42:18.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I will say that...
Dialogue: 0,0:42:18.59,0:42:21.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can look back at Wikipedia,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:21.02,0:42:22.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or before that, \Nthere was the phenomenon
Dialogue: 0,0:42:22.68,0:42:26.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of eternal September on Usenet
Dialogue: 0,0:42:26.90,0:42:30.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which was, "Oh these people keep--\NAOL disks have gone everywhere
Dialogue: 0,0:42:30.30,0:42:31.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and now there's newcomers
Dialogue: 0,0:42:31.49,0:42:34.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all the time who don't know \Nhow things work around here,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:34.03,0:42:37.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and everything is drowning\Nin people hitting "Reply All."
Dialogue: 0,0:42:39.80,0:42:42.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Generally speaking,\Nthe place that I would look for that
Dialogue: 0,0:42:42.34,0:42:47.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is there is a discipline called,\N"Computer-supported collaborative work,"
Dialogue: 0,0:42:47.94,0:42:49.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and one of their big questions
Dialogue: 0,0:42:49.75,0:42:54.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is this question of onboarding,\Nand of like...
Dialogue: 0,0:42:54.98,0:42:57.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,making the culture known to people.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:57.91,0:43:01.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it may not be something \Nthat is directly solvable,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:01.20,0:43:03.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or that we want to directly solve, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:43:03.30,0:43:06.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, Susan Leigh Star\Nwho wrote {\i1}Sorting Things Out,{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:43:06.75,0:43:08.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one of her other contributions
Dialogue: 0,0:43:08.14,0:43:12.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was generally the study of infrastructures
Dialogue: 0,0:43:12.59,0:43:15.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of which I would argue Wikidata\Nis definitely one,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:15.84,0:43:18.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and of the things that she argued
Dialogue: 0,0:43:18.76,0:43:21.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was that infrastructures \Nmake themselves known
Dialogue: 0,0:43:21.71,0:43:23.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,through using them.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:23.01,0:43:27.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So like, basically the only way\Nto work out how a system works
Dialogue: 0,0:43:27.56,0:43:31.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is to engage with it,\Nand trip over, and fall flat on your face,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:31.73,0:43:34.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and learn not to fall over that way again.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:35.16,0:43:39.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think everyone everywhere,\Nincluding new users,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:40.72,0:43:42.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including people \Ncoming from other projects,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:42.91,0:43:48.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wants a way of approaching this\Nwhere they don't have to fall over.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:49.29,0:43:51.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I'm not sure if that exists,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:51.41,0:43:55.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think that a better place\Nwe might look is maybe to ask
Dialogue: 0,0:43:56.32,0:43:58.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what are the consequences\Nof people screwing up
Dialogue: 0,0:43:58.93,0:44:02.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how do we make screwing up\Nan understandable
Dialogue: 0,0:44:02.51,0:44:07.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a more expected component\Nof the user experience.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:07.52,0:44:09.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(moderator) Okay thanks.\NNext question.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:10.75,0:44:11.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(person 6) Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:13.12,0:44:15.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, first, thank you very much\Nfor your presentation to us.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:15.48,0:44:17.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Again, someone said, eye-opening.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:18.17,0:44:23.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was looking at the specific item\Non transsexualism,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:23.84,0:44:27.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's actually even more interesting
Dialogue: 0,0:44:27.23,0:44:29.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I was looking\Nat different Wikipedias,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:29.47,0:44:32.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how they dealt with the issue.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:32.44,0:44:34.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I just look at three.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:34.68,0:44:38.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, apparently, what\Nwe are seeing on Wikidata
Dialogue: 0,0:44:38.19,0:44:44.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually reflects pretty much\Nwhat happened to some extent
Dialogue: 0,0:44:44.83,0:44:47.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at some level on English Wikipedia,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:47.25,0:44:50.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whereas if you look\Nat Portuguese Wikipedia,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:51.38,0:44:55.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the actual item connects to transgender,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:56.43,0:45:02.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and on French Wikipedia\Nit connects to trans identity
Dialogue: 0,0:45:02.84,0:45:07.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whereas transsexualism is a redirect\Nin both Portuguese and French.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:08.57,0:45:14.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I was looking at the history\Nof editing on the Wikidata item,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:15.18,0:45:18.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if you look at--\Nthere were several sort of wars
Dialogue: 0,0:45:18.90,0:45:22.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the discussion page\Nis actually only one line,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:22.72,0:45:26.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but there were several conflicts\Nbetween editors,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:26.02,0:45:28.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,particularly with the French
Dialogue: 0,0:45:28.37,0:45:32.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that were opposing\Nthe use of transsexualism.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:32.14,0:45:35.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you look at the names of the items\Non each language,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:35.95,0:45:38.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the only one on which\Nyou don't have transsexualism
Dialogue: 0,0:45:38.92,0:45:41.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is French for trans identity,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:41.18,0:45:45.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then someone came,\Nand did what you said about
Dialogue: 0,0:45:45.10,0:45:47.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's the opposite [inaudible],\Ntrans identity,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:47.48,0:45:50.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then there is a different item that--
Dialogue: 0,0:45:50.73,0:45:51.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Oh yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:51.94,0:45:56.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(person 6) So, it's a complete\Nglobal fight over...
Dialogue: 0,0:45:56.36,0:45:59.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,basically it's reverberating conflicts
Dialogue: 0,0:45:59.50,0:46:03.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are apparently also
Dialogue: 0,0:46:03.22,0:46:08.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the manifestations of conflicts\Nthat happen on each Wikipedia.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:08.46,0:46:12.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, that also reflect conflicts\Nin local cultures,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:12.22,0:46:14.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in different parts\Nof the world, yeah...
Dialogue: 0,0:46:14.76,0:46:16.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I'd argue that, I mean,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:16.72,0:46:20.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm British so I have a tendency\Nto say, "Wait, fighting with the French?"
Dialogue: 0,0:46:20.52,0:46:21.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Yes, Please!"
Dialogue: 0,0:46:21.65,0:46:22.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:46:22.87,0:46:27.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I'd say there's almost something\Nmore fundamental than that,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:27.09,0:46:29.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you can make an argument\Nin the other direction.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:29.48,0:46:32.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I can, as a trans person, make an argument\Nin the other direction and say,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:32.65,0:46:36.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Actually, it's the French \Nand Portuguese who have it wrong."
Dialogue: 0,0:46:36.07,0:46:38.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because the actual question is
Dialogue: 0,0:46:38.27,0:46:40.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the entry transsexualism about
Dialogue: 0,0:46:40.46,0:46:44.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the medical classification,\Nor the state of being,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:45.17,0:46:48.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or the historic medical classification,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:48.34,0:46:50.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or the historic term\Nfor the state of being,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:50.94,0:46:53.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or are these different entries,\Nor the same entries?
Dialogue: 0,0:46:53.52,0:46:56.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When are things distinct enough\Nto be different objects,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:56.42,0:46:58.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how do we negotiate that fight
Dialogue: 0,0:46:58.65,0:47:00.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between people who think\Nthat the medical status
Dialogue: 0,0:47:00.78,0:47:04.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the identity are the same thing,\Nor different things.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:05.27,0:47:08.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But yeah, there is no easy answer
Dialogue: 0,0:47:08.03,0:47:10.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but yeah, I suspect \Nif you look at a lot of these examples,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:10.50,0:47:12.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if you look \Nat a lot of controversies,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:12.59,0:47:13.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,generally on Wikidata
Dialogue: 0,0:47:13.83,0:47:17.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what you're going to see is\Nthese fights over...
Dialogue: 0,0:47:17.55,0:47:19.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These almost negotiations
Dialogue: 0,0:47:19.22,0:47:20.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are the local community norms,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:20.86,0:47:23.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and beyond that are the cultural norms.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:23.95,0:47:25.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which is a problem because again,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:25.60,0:47:28.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when we're talking about marginalized\Nor minority groups,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:29.31,0:47:33.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we would expect them to also\Nbe marginalized within Wiki communities,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:33.58,0:47:36.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and also within Wikidata,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:36.59,0:47:38.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so Wikidata is sort of...
Dialogue: 0,0:47:39.70,0:47:42.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,building on these\Npreexisting prioritizations
Dialogue: 0,0:47:42.90,0:47:45.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of whose knowledge matters,\Nand under what circumstances
Dialogue: 0,0:47:45.34,0:47:47.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in what form.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:48.13,0:47:51.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(person 7): I wanted to touch\Non something you mentioned.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:52.42,0:47:57.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Everything is complex\Nand I think modeling it right,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:57.79,0:48:00.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,getting it right on Wikidata
Dialogue: 0,0:48:00.32,0:48:02.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is not the sum of the issue.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:02.66,0:48:05.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As you said, Wikidata is infrastructure,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:05.26,0:48:08.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and as [Hermione] said,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:08.62,0:48:12.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have gotten it right perhaps\Nin some things, in some other topics,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:12.92,0:48:15.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and still can't \Nactually practice it right.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:15.38,0:48:16.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yep.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:16.50,0:48:18.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(person 7): So I want to suggest that
Dialogue: 0,0:48:18.10,0:48:21.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is a prevalent condition\Nof the human race.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:22.88,0:48:28.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And however well we model something,\Neven if we model gender
Dialogue: 0,0:48:29.19,0:48:32.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ten times more complexly\Nthan we do today,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:33.32,0:48:36.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,most SPARQL queries involving gender\Nwould not bother
Dialogue: 0,0:48:36.49,0:48:38.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- with the qualifiers right?\N- Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:38.16,0:48:42.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And would still generate very,\Nvery flattened, very simplified results.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:42.33,0:48:46.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Google's use of our data\Nin the infamous Google infoboxes
Dialogue: 0,0:48:46.86,0:48:49.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will also flatten the data\Nand ignore qualifiers.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:49.93,0:48:51.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is not going to change.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:51.77,0:48:54.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Wikidata will continue to be used \Nin simplistic ways.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:55.65,0:48:57.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Indeed, the majority of use,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:57.18,0:48:59.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,probably, will be that simplistic thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:00.02,0:49:03.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My point is, it's probably not fixable
Dialogue: 0,0:49:03.58,0:49:05.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we shouldn't stop trying.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:06.80,0:49:08.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean we should try to get it right
Dialogue: 0,0:49:08.82,0:49:12.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and understand that a lot of the use is,\Ndespite our best efforts,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:12.75,0:49:14.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going to be simplistic and wrong.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:14.64,0:49:16.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yep. I would agree with that.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:16.95,0:49:18.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I guess I would say that
Dialogue: 0,0:49:18.63,0:49:20.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know,\Nit's not about like,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:20.47,0:49:23.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,my issue here is not about\Nit being you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:23.69,0:49:26.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there is one true \Nincredibly complex answer.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:28.10,0:49:30.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At some point I just gave up
Dialogue: 0,0:49:30.43,0:49:36.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even in my thesis which is about\Ntransness and technology
Dialogue: 0,0:49:36.14,0:49:37.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of defining transness.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:37.90,0:49:39.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I just gave up.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:39.67,0:49:44.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I instead took what is referred to\Nas a pragmatist view,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:44.73,0:49:47.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is basically that\Nit is whatever the people
Dialogue: 0,0:49:47.08,0:49:49.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the situation that you're studying\Nbelieve it to be,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:49.28,0:49:53.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and however they construct\Nthe world as if it were,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:54.98,0:49:56.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what I'm getting at this
Dialogue: 0,0:49:56.56,0:49:59.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is not that there is\Nsome universal definition
Dialogue: 0,0:49:59.38,0:50:01.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of anything which,\Nif sufficiently complicated,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:01.70,0:50:04.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would be enough,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:04.76,0:50:08.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but instead that I think\Nthat the scale is the problem,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:08.78,0:50:10.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the universalism is the problem.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:12.65,0:50:14.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Maybe we should keep trying,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:14.56,0:50:16.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or maybe we should stop.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:16.06,0:50:18.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Maybe we should instead say\Nthat, again,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:18.85,0:50:23.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there should be a Wikibase install\Nin every self-defined community
Dialogue: 0,0:50:23.44,0:50:27.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that wants it and they can define things,\Nand articulate things
Dialogue: 0,0:50:27.89,0:50:30.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to their own satisfaction.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:30.80,0:50:32.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But then we end up in more political
Dialogue: 0,0:50:32.100,0:50:37.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and fraught debates of a reformist\Nversus radical actions,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:37.02,0:50:40.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how you open a box\Nwith a crowbar that's already inside it,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:40.19,0:50:42.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I end up quoting Foucault for an hour,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:42.24,0:50:44.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and everyone gets sad.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:44.54,0:50:46.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Including me because I hate Foucault.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:47.50,0:50:49.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this might be a discussion\Nfor elsewhere.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:49.25,0:50:51.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But generally agreed, I just--
Dialogue: 0,0:50:51.98,0:50:54.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would raise questions about
Dialogue: 0,0:50:54.24,0:50:55.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether we should keep trying
Dialogue: 0,0:50:55.69,0:50:57.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for a better form of universalism,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:57.70,0:51:00.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or whether the problem \Nis that universalism.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:00.70,0:51:03.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm guessing we have\Na time for one more? Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:04.04,0:51:07.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(person 8): This is a short question, \Npossibly complex answer.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:07.78,0:51:10.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the most popular
Dialogue: 0,0:51:10.13,0:51:15.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and used properties is sex\Nor gender on Wikidata.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:16.33,0:51:18.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Could you speak to whether you find
Dialogue: 0,0:51:18.14,0:51:24.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that merging useful,\Nproductive, problematic?
Dialogue: 0,0:51:26.26,0:51:28.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sure, I mean I think it's always
Dialogue: 0,0:51:28.28,0:51:30.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going to be reductive \Ncause it's a merging.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:31.14,0:51:35.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I also think\Nthat it is deeply tiresome
Dialogue: 0,0:51:36.79,0:51:38.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a way that's kind of interesting
Dialogue: 0,0:51:38.60,0:51:42.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,insofar as it reveals\Nthe limitations of Wikidata,
Dialogue: 0,0:51:42.42,0:51:44.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,though Wikidata claims to be building
Dialogue: 0,0:51:44.04,0:51:47.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,towards this like big objective\Nset of knowledge,
Dialogue: 0,0:51:47.30,0:51:49.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but ultimately kind of \Nsmushed these things together
Dialogue: 0,0:51:49.45,0:51:52.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I mean they haven't asked
Dialogue: 0,0:51:52.65,0:51:55.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,most people who have entries\Nwhat their gender is,
Dialogue: 0,0:51:55.86,0:51:57.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and/or what their sex is,
Dialogue: 0,0:51:57.29,0:51:59.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so they just merge them
Dialogue: 0,0:51:59.27,0:52:01.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that inference is easier.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:02.04,0:52:04.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But generally speaking, yeah,\NI say that the merging
Dialogue: 0,0:52:04.81,0:52:08.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the two together\Nis reductive and dangerous
Dialogue: 0,0:52:08.83,0:52:10.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but...
Dialogue: 0,0:52:11.52,0:52:13.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Again it's not...
Dialogue: 0,0:52:13.64,0:52:15.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is no good way of doing it.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:15.03,0:52:17.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think this is a particularly bad way
Dialogue: 0,0:52:18.40,0:52:22.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of treating them \Nas interchangeable things,
Dialogue: 0,0:52:22.99,0:52:26.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and treating them\Nas forever-linked things,
Dialogue: 0,0:52:27.98,0:52:31.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I can't suggest a better way\Nthat remains--
Dialogue: 0,0:52:32.15,0:52:33.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that continues to have Wikidata
Dialogue: 0,0:52:33.87,0:52:36.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even tracking this information\Nor the information contained
Dialogue: 0,0:52:36.48,0:52:38.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in that at all.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:38.59,0:52:40.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(moderator): Okay.\NI think we have to conclude here.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:40.67,0:52:42.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I still saw some raised hands
Dialogue: 0,0:52:42.34,0:52:43.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so hopefully you'll be around.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:43.56,0:52:45.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah. I am a grad student.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:45.53,0:52:47.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have functionally no life, so...
Dialogue: 0,0:52:47.32,0:52:48.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:52:48.36,0:52:51.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(moderator): Perfect. Okay.\NSo please come and talk.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:52.31,0:52:53.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you very much.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:54.04,0:52:56.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(applause)