0:00:00.000,0:00:07.304 (ESTV - The Best teachers in the World Clip 2) 0:00:07.304,0:00:10.353 [Jeff Selingo] Alright, let's go back to Tennessee for a second. 0:00:10.353,0:00:14.724 You talk a little bit of - obviously, you focus a lot on Vanderbilt there in Tennessee - 0:00:14.724,0:00:17.983 and you talk a little bit about how Vanderbilt and Teach For America 0:00:17.983,0:00:23.273 are essentially the only two intitutions or providers in Tennessee producing high quality teachers. 0:00:23.273,0:00:29.122 What should happen to all those other providers in Tennessee? Should we shut them down? 0:00:29.122,0:00:35.480 Hem, how do we raise them up to be as good as Vanderbild and Teach for America? 0:00:35.480,0:00:40.408 And then a related question: Teach for America - here you talked earlier about how the - 0:00:40.408,0:00:46.776 how the lead institutions in this country have essentially abdicated their role in training teachers, 0:00:46.776,0:00:53.287 but yet Teach for America is this incredibly high-profile program 0:00:53.287,0:00:59.953 that students at some of the best institutions in our country clamour to get into every year, right? 0:00:59.953,0:01:04.691 Why are they not clamouring to get into teachers traditional programs? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 [John Chubb] There are a lot of questions there. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 First, I don't think a regulatory approach to training institutions is the right way to - I mean 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the states have the power now to close down programs that they, you know, if they want to. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 But they've never had the political will to do that 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and you can count on them (?) not having a political will 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I think a better approach is to use transparency, to use information. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So, you know, if their performance - if the performance of training programs at education schools 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 were better known, I think that would be a great incentive for them to improve, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you know, rather than close down somebody who is actually trying to improve. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I also - so I think there needs be a lot more information. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I think that there should be a more open market in training. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So, yeah, there is an alternative certification now in a lot of places, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 but that's more often than not an alternative route (?), but through an Ed school. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 But I think that there should be other kinds of training institutions that are allowed into the market 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and if we can now (?) get information about their performance, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 then I think that the competition for students, the competition .... (2:12) 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 But the Teach For America example, I think, is a great one. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It shows that there is interest on the part - intense interest - 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 on the part of high-aptitude young people to go into teaching, right? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 But Teach For America has become ever more selective, right? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It is - I think that is actually harder to get into Teach For America 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 [Selingo] than it is .... Harvard[br][Chubb] than into Harvard, right? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So there is something wrong with that too, because we're looking for bright people to become teachers - 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 [Selingo] - We're also looking for bright people to ..... and then move on to 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 [Chubb] Exactly. So the - exactly - so the problem I have with Teach for America is that 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it's not accompanied by an adequate training and support program. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So, if you are able to attract as many people into teaching, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 if you provided better support for them, and if the profession were to change, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 were to be better compensated, were to recognize merit, all the things that, you know, professions do, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 then you could hold more of these people in place, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and also, if it were a better compensated profession, if it were a better ...... profession, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that higher caliber high school graduates were interested in, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 more of the top universities would be interested in preparing them. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 [Selingo] Yeah, but ......... 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 how about the jobs themselves: you talk in some ways 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that part of teaching is drudgery, right, it's like hourly (?) work in some cases, right? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And so, is part of improving the actual experience, as well, so that students want to enter into it? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 [Chubb] Yeah - I worked with, you know, hundreds of schools, thousands and thousands of teachers. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And you know, it's unbelievably noble work, there's no work that is more important, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 but it's much harder than it has to be. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And - and every industry in the planet is looking for ways 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to make people more productive and more successful. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And that's what technology is all about. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And if they can do that, then there will be fewer teachers, like, so what? You know. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 This is now an important program. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 This is an effort to provide great education to our kids, right? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So, whatever that looks like is what we ..... should be trying to do. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And yes, when a profession becomes more attractive, it does - it becomes more intellectual work. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I mean, that is one of the arguments that I make in the book, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that good teaching is intellectually demanding work. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It's not repetitive: it requires lots and lots of decisions, it requires intellect, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it requires content knowledge. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And we could get there if we would take some of the load of the backs of teachers 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that could be taken off by technology 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (This has been a production of EducationSector Independant Analysis. Innovative Ideas[br]www.educationsector.org)