[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.00,0:00:02.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What I want to talk to you about today
Dialogue: 0,0:00:02.00,0:00:06.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is some of the problems that the military of the Western world --
Dialogue: 0,0:00:06.00,0:00:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Australia, United States, U.K. and so on --
Dialogue: 0,0:00:09.00,0:00:11.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,face in some of the deployments
Dialogue: 0,0:00:11.00,0:00:14.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they're dealing with in the modern world at this time.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:14.00,0:00:16.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you think about the sorts of things
Dialogue: 0,0:00:16.00,0:00:19.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we've sent Australian military personnel to in recent years,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:19.00,0:00:22.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we've got obvious things like Iraq and Afghanistan,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:22.00,0:00:24.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but you've also got things like East Timor
Dialogue: 0,0:00:24.00,0:00:26.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the Solomon Islands and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:26.00,0:00:28.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And a lot of these deployments
Dialogue: 0,0:00:28.00,0:00:31.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we're actually sending military personnel to these days
Dialogue: 0,0:00:31.00,0:00:33.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,aren't traditional wars.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:33.00,0:00:35.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, a lot of the jobs
Dialogue: 0,0:00:35.00,0:00:38.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we're asking the military personnel to do in these situations
Dialogue: 0,0:00:38.00,0:00:41.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are ones that, in their own countries, in Australia, the United States and so on,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:41.00,0:00:44.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would actually be done by police officers.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:44.00,0:00:46.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so there's a bunch of problems that come up
Dialogue: 0,0:00:46.00,0:00:48.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for military personnel in these situations,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:48.00,0:00:51.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they're doing things that they haven't really been trained for,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:51.00,0:00:53.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they're doing things
Dialogue: 0,0:00:53.00,0:00:56.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that those who do them in their own countries
Dialogue: 0,0:00:56.00,0:00:58.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are trained very differently for
Dialogue: 0,0:00:58.00,0:01:00.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and equipped very differently for.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:00.00,0:01:02.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now there's a bunch of reasons why
Dialogue: 0,0:01:02.00,0:01:04.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we actually do send military personnel
Dialogue: 0,0:01:04.00,0:01:06.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rather than police to do these jobs.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:06.00,0:01:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If Australia had to send a thousand people tomorrow
Dialogue: 0,0:01:09.00,0:01:11.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to West Papua for example,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:11.00,0:01:13.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we don't have a thousand police officers hanging around
Dialogue: 0,0:01:13.00,0:01:15.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that could just go tomorrow
Dialogue: 0,0:01:15.00,0:01:17.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we do have a thousand soldiers that could go.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:17.00,0:01:20.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So when we have to send someone, we send the military --
Dialogue: 0,0:01:20.00,0:01:22.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they're there, they're available
Dialogue: 0,0:01:22.00,0:01:24.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and, heck, they're used to going off and doing these things
Dialogue: 0,0:01:24.00,0:01:26.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and living by themselves
Dialogue: 0,0:01:26.00,0:01:28.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and not having all this extra support.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:28.00,0:01:30.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So they are able to do it in that sense.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:30.00,0:01:33.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But they aren't trained in the same way that police officers are
Dialogue: 0,0:01:33.00,0:01:36.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they're certainly not equipped in the same way police officers are.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:36.00,0:01:38.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so this has raised a bunch of problems for them
Dialogue: 0,0:01:38.00,0:01:40.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when dealing with these sorts of issues.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:40.00,0:01:42.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One particular thing that's come up
Dialogue: 0,0:01:42.00,0:01:44.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I am especially interested in
Dialogue: 0,0:01:44.00,0:01:46.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the question of whether,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:46.00,0:01:48.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when we're sending military personnel to do these sorts of jobs,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:48.00,0:01:50.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we ought to be equipping them differently,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:50.00,0:01:52.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in particular, whether we ought to be giving them access
Dialogue: 0,0:01:52.00,0:01:55.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to some of the sorts of non-lethal weapons that police have.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:55.00,0:01:57.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Since they're doing some of these same jobs,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:57.00,0:01:59.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,maybe they should have some of those things.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:59.00,0:02:01.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And of course, there's a range of places
Dialogue: 0,0:02:01.00,0:02:03.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where you'd think those things would be really useful.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:03.00,0:02:06.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So for example, when you've got military checkpoints.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:06.00,0:02:08.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If people are approaching these checkpoints
Dialogue: 0,0:02:08.00,0:02:10.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the military personnel there are unsure
Dialogue: 0,0:02:10.00,0:02:12.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether this person's hostile or not.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:12.00,0:02:14.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Say this person approaching here,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:14.00,0:02:16.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they say, "Well is this a suicide bomber or not?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:16.00,0:02:18.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Have they got something hidden under their clothing? What's going to happen?"
Dialogue: 0,0:02:18.00,0:02:20.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They don't know whether this person's hostile or not.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:20.00,0:02:22.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If this person doesn't follow directions,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:22.00,0:02:24.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then they may end up shooting them
Dialogue: 0,0:02:24.00,0:02:26.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then find out afterward
Dialogue: 0,0:02:26.00,0:02:28.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,either, yes, we shot the right person,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:28.00,0:02:30.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or, no, this was just an innocent person
Dialogue: 0,0:02:30.00,0:02:32.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who didn't understand what was going on.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:32.00,0:02:34.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if they had non-lethal weapons
Dialogue: 0,0:02:34.00,0:02:36.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then they would say, "Well we can use them in that sort of situation.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:36.00,0:02:38.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If we shoot someone who wasn't hostile,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:38.00,0:02:40.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at least we haven't killed them."
Dialogue: 0,0:02:40.00,0:02:42.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Another situation.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:42.00,0:02:44.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This photo is actually from one of the missions
Dialogue: 0,0:02:44.00,0:02:46.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the Balkans in the late 1990s.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:46.00,0:02:48.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Situation's a little bit different
Dialogue: 0,0:02:48.00,0:02:50.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where perhaps they know someone who's hostile,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:50.00,0:02:52.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where they've got someone shooting at them
Dialogue: 0,0:02:52.00,0:02:55.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or doing something else that's clearly hostile, throwing rocks, whatever.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:55.00,0:02:58.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if they respond, there's a range of other people around,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:58.00,0:03:01.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are innocent people who might also get hurt --
Dialogue: 0,0:03:01.00,0:03:05.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be collateral damage that the military often doesn't want to talk about.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:05.00,0:03:07.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So again, they would say, "Well if we have access to non-lethal weapons,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:07.00,0:03:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if we've got someone we know is hostile,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:09.00,0:03:11.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we can do something to deal with them
Dialogue: 0,0:03:11.00,0:03:13.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and know that if we hit anyone else around the place,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:13.00,0:03:15.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at least, again, we're not going to kill them."
Dialogue: 0,0:03:15.00,0:03:17.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Another suggestion has been,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:17.00,0:03:19.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,since we're putting so many robots in the field,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:19.00,0:03:21.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we can see the time coming
Dialogue: 0,0:03:21.00,0:03:24.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where they're actually going to be sending robots out in the field that are autonomous.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:24.00,0:03:27.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're going to make their own decisions about who to shoot and who not to shoot
Dialogue: 0,0:03:27.00,0:03:29.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without a human in the loop.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:29.00,0:03:31.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so the suggestion is, well hey,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:31.00,0:03:33.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if we're going to send robots out and allow them to do this,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:33.00,0:03:36.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,maybe it would be a good idea, again, with these things
Dialogue: 0,0:03:36.00,0:03:38.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if they were armed with non-lethal weapons
Dialogue: 0,0:03:38.00,0:03:41.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that if the robot makes a bad decision and shoots the wrong person,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:41.00,0:03:43.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,again, they haven't actually killed them.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:43.00,0:03:46.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now there's a whole range of different sorts of non-lethal weapons,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:46.00,0:03:48.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some of which are obviously available now,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:48.00,0:03:50.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some of which they're developing.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:50.00,0:03:52.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you've got traditional things like pepper spray,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:52.00,0:03:54.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,O.C. spray up at the top there,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:54.00,0:03:56.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or Tasers over here.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:56.00,0:03:59.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The one on the top right here is actually a dazzling laser
Dialogue: 0,0:03:59.00,0:04:01.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,intended to just blind the person momentarily
Dialogue: 0,0:04:01.00,0:04:03.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and disorient them.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:03.00,0:04:05.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You've got non-lethal shotgun rounds
Dialogue: 0,0:04:05.00,0:04:07.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that contain rubber pellets
Dialogue: 0,0:04:07.00,0:04:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,instead of the traditional metal ones.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:09.00,0:04:12.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this one in the middle here, the large truck,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:12.00,0:04:14.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is actually called the Active Denial System --
Dialogue: 0,0:04:14.00,0:04:17.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something the U.S. military is working on at the moment.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:17.00,0:04:20.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's essentially a big microwave transmitter.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:20.00,0:04:23.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's sort of your classic idea of a heat ray.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:23.00,0:04:26.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It goes out to a really long distance,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:26.00,0:04:28.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,compared to any of these other sorts of things.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:28.00,0:04:30.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And anybody who is hit with this
Dialogue: 0,0:04:30.00,0:04:32.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,feels this sudden burst of heat
Dialogue: 0,0:04:32.00,0:04:34.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and just wants to get out of the way.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:34.00,0:04:37.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is a lot more sophisticated than a microwave oven,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:37.00,0:04:39.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it is basically boiling the water molecules
Dialogue: 0,0:04:39.00,0:04:41.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the very surface level of your skin.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:41.00,0:04:43.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you feel this massive heat,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:43.00,0:04:45.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you go, "I want to get out of the way."
Dialogue: 0,0:04:45.00,0:04:48.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they're thinking, well this will be really useful
Dialogue: 0,0:04:48.00,0:04:50.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in places like where we need to clear a crowd out of a particular area,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:50.00,0:04:52.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if the crowd is being hostile.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:52.00,0:04:55.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If we need to keep people away from a particular place,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:55.00,0:04:58.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we can do that with these sorts of things.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:58.00,0:05:00.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So obviously there's a whole range of different sorts
Dialogue: 0,0:05:00.00,0:05:03.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of non-lethal weapons we could give military personnel
Dialogue: 0,0:05:03.00,0:05:05.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there's a whole range of situations
Dialogue: 0,0:05:05.00,0:05:08.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where they're looking a them and saying, "Hey, these things could be really useful."
Dialogue: 0,0:05:08.00,0:05:10.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But as I said,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:10.00,0:05:12.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the military and the police
Dialogue: 0,0:05:12.00,0:05:14.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are very different.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:14.00,0:05:16.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, you don't have to look very hard at this
Dialogue: 0,0:05:16.00,0:05:18.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to recognize the fact that they might be very different.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:18.00,0:05:20.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In particular,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:20.00,0:05:22.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the attitude to the use of force
Dialogue: 0,0:05:22.00,0:05:24.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the way they're trained to use force
Dialogue: 0,0:05:24.00,0:05:26.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is especially different.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:26.00,0:05:28.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The police --
Dialogue: 0,0:05:28.00,0:05:31.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and knowing because I've actually helped to train police --
Dialogue: 0,0:05:31.00,0:05:34.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,police, in particular Western jurisdictions at least,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:34.00,0:05:37.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are trained to de-escalate force,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:37.00,0:05:39.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to try and avoid using force
Dialogue: 0,0:05:39.00,0:05:41.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wherever possible,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:41.00,0:05:43.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to use lethal force
Dialogue: 0,0:05:43.00,0:05:46.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,only as an absolute last resort.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:46.00,0:05:49.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Military personnel are being trained for war,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:49.00,0:05:52.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so they're trained that, as soon as things go bad,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:52.00,0:05:55.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their first response is lethal force.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:56.00,0:06:00.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The moment the fecal matter hits the rotating turbine,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:00.00,0:06:03.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can start shooting at people.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.00,0:06:05.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So their attitudes
Dialogue: 0,0:06:05.00,0:06:07.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the use of lethal force are very different,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:07.00,0:06:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think it's fairly obvious
Dialogue: 0,0:06:09.00,0:06:12.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that their attitude to the use of non-lethal weapons
Dialogue: 0,0:06:12.00,0:06:15.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would also be very different from what it is with the police.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:15.00,0:06:17.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And since we've already had so many problems
Dialogue: 0,0:06:17.00,0:06:20.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with police use of non-lethal weapons in various ways,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:20.00,0:06:23.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I thought it would be a really good idea to look at some of those things
Dialogue: 0,0:06:23.00,0:06:25.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and try to relate it to the military context.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:25.00,0:06:27.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I was really surprised when I started to do this,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:27.00,0:06:29.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to see that, in fact,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:29.00,0:06:32.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even those people who were advocating the use of non-lethal weapons by the military
Dialogue: 0,0:06:32.00,0:06:34.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hadn't actually done that.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:34.00,0:06:36.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They generally seem to think,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:36.00,0:06:38.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Well, why would we care what's happened with the police?
Dialogue: 0,0:06:38.00,0:06:40.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're looking at something different,"
Dialogue: 0,0:06:40.00,0:06:42.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and didn't seem to recognize, in fact,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:42.00,0:06:44.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they were looking at pretty much the same stuff.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:44.00,0:06:46.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I actually started to investigate some of those issues
Dialogue: 0,0:06:46.00,0:06:48.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and have a look
Dialogue: 0,0:06:48.00,0:06:51.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the way that police use non-lethal weapons when they're introduced
Dialogue: 0,0:06:51.00,0:06:53.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and some of the problems that might arise
Dialogue: 0,0:06:53.00,0:06:55.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out of those sorts of things
Dialogue: 0,0:06:55.00,0:06:57.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they actually do introduce them.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:57.00,0:06:59.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And of course, being Australian,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:59.00,0:07:01.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I started looking at stuff in Australia,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:01.00,0:07:04.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,knowing, again, from my own experience about various times
Dialogue: 0,0:07:04.00,0:07:07.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when non-lethal weapons have been introduced in Australia.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:07.00,0:07:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So one of the things I particularly looked at
Dialogue: 0,0:07:09.00,0:07:11.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was the use of O.C. spray,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:11.00,0:07:13.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,oleoresin capsicum spray, pepper spray,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:13.00,0:07:15.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by Australian police
Dialogue: 0,0:07:15.00,0:07:17.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and seeing when that had been introduced, what had happened
Dialogue: 0,0:07:17.00,0:07:19.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and those sorts of issues.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:19.00,0:07:21.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And one study that I found,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:21.00,0:07:23.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a particularly interesting one,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:23.00,0:07:25.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was actually in Queensland,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:25.00,0:07:28.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they had a trial period for the use of pepper spray
Dialogue: 0,0:07:28.00,0:07:31.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,before they actually introduced it more broadly.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:31.00,0:07:34.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I went and had a look at some of the figures here.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:34.00,0:07:36.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now when they introduced O.C. spray in Queensland,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:36.00,0:07:38.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they were really explicit.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:38.00,0:07:41.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The police minister had a whole heap of public statements made about it.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:41.00,0:07:43.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They were saying, "This is explicitly intended
Dialogue: 0,0:07:43.00,0:07:45.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to give police an option
Dialogue: 0,0:07:45.00,0:07:48.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between shouting and shooting.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:48.00,0:07:51.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is something they can use instead of a firearm
Dialogue: 0,0:07:51.00,0:07:54.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in those situations where they would have previously had to shoot someone."
Dialogue: 0,0:07:54.00,0:07:57.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I went and looked at all of these police shooting figures.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:57.00,0:07:59.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you can't actually find them very easily
Dialogue: 0,0:07:59.00,0:08:01.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for individual Australian states.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:01.00,0:08:03.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I could only find these ones.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:03.00,0:08:05.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is from a Australian Institute of Criminology report.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:05.00,0:08:07.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As you can see from the fine print, if you can read it at the top:
Dialogue: 0,0:08:07.00,0:08:10.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Police shooting deaths" means not just people who have been shot by police,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:10.00,0:08:14.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but people who have shot themselves in the presence of police.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:14.00,0:08:16.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But this is the figures across the entire country.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:16.00,0:08:18.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the red arrow represents the point
Dialogue: 0,0:08:18.00,0:08:20.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where Queensland actually said,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:20.00,0:08:23.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Yes, this is where we're going to give all police officers across the entire state
Dialogue: 0,0:08:23.00,0:08:25.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,access to O.C. spray."
Dialogue: 0,0:08:25.00,0:08:28.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you can see there were six deaths sort of leading up to it
Dialogue: 0,0:08:28.00,0:08:30.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,every year for a number of years.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:30.00,0:08:32.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was a spike, of course, a few years before,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:32.00,0:08:34.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that wasn't actually Queensland.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:34.00,0:08:37.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anyone know where that was? Wasn't Port Arthur, no.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:37.00,0:08:39.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Victoria? Yes, correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:39.00,0:08:42.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That spike was all Victoria.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:42.00,0:08:44.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it wasn't that Queensland had a particular problem
Dialogue: 0,0:08:44.00,0:08:48.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with deaths from police shootings and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:48.00,0:08:50.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So six shootings across the whole country,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:50.00,0:08:52.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fairly consistently over the years before.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:52.00,0:08:55.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the next two years were the years they studied -- 2001, 2002.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:55.00,0:08:58.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anyone want to take a stab at the number of times,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:58.00,0:09:00.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,given how they've introduced this,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:00.00,0:09:03.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the number of times police in Queensland used O.C. spray in that period?
Dialogue: 0,0:09:03.00,0:09:05.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hundreds? One, three.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:05.00,0:09:08.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thousand is getting better.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:10.00,0:09:12.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Explicitly introduced
Dialogue: 0,0:09:12.00,0:09:14.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as an alternative to the use of lethal force --
Dialogue: 0,0:09:14.00,0:09:17.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an alternative between shouting and shooting.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:17.00,0:09:19.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm going to go out on a limb here
Dialogue: 0,0:09:19.00,0:09:22.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and say that if Queensland police didn't have O.C. spray,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:22.00,0:09:25.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they wouldn't have shot 2,226 people
Dialogue: 0,0:09:25.00,0:09:28.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in those two years.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:28.00,0:09:30.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, if you have a look
Dialogue: 0,0:09:30.00,0:09:32.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the studies that they were looking at,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:32.00,0:09:35.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the material they were collecting and examining,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:35.00,0:09:38.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can see the suspects were only armed
Dialogue: 0,0:09:38.00,0:09:40.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in about 15 percent of cases
Dialogue: 0,0:09:40.00,0:09:42.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where O.C. spray was used.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:42.00,0:09:45.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was routinely being used in this period,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:45.00,0:09:47.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and, of course, still is routinely used --
Dialogue: 0,0:09:47.00,0:09:49.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because there were no complaints about it,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:49.00,0:09:52.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not within the context of this study anyway --
Dialogue: 0,0:09:52.00,0:09:54.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was routinely being used
Dialogue: 0,0:09:54.00,0:09:56.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to deal with people who were violent,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:56.00,0:09:58.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who were potentially violent,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:58.00,0:10:00.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and also quite frequently used
Dialogue: 0,0:10:00.00,0:10:02.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to deal with people who were simply
Dialogue: 0,0:10:02.00,0:10:06.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,passively non-compliant.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:06.00,0:10:08.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This person is not doing anything violent,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:08.00,0:10:10.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but they just won't do what we want them to.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:10.00,0:10:12.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're not obeying the directions that we're giving them,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:12.00,0:10:14.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so we'll give them a shot of the O.C. spray.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:14.00,0:10:18.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That'll speed them up. Everything will work out better that way.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:18.00,0:10:20.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This was something explicitly introduced
Dialogue: 0,0:10:20.00,0:10:22.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be an alternative to firearms,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:22.00,0:10:24.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it's being routinely used
Dialogue: 0,0:10:24.00,0:10:26.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to deal with a whole range
Dialogue: 0,0:10:26.00,0:10:28.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of other sorts of problems.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:28.00,0:10:30.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now one of the particular issues that comes up
Dialogue: 0,0:10:30.00,0:10:33.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with military use of non-lethal weapons --
Dialogue: 0,0:10:33.00,0:10:36.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and people when they're actually saying, "Well hey, there might be some problems" --
Dialogue: 0,0:10:36.00,0:10:39.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's a couple of particular problems that get focused on.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:39.00,0:10:41.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of those problems
Dialogue: 0,0:10:41.00,0:10:44.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that non-lethal weapons may be used indiscriminately.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:44.00,0:10:47.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the fundamental principles of military use of force
Dialogue: 0,0:10:47.00,0:10:49.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that you have to be discriminate.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:49.00,0:10:52.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have to be careful about who you're shooting at.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:52.00,0:10:55.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So one of the problems that's been suggested with non-lethal weapons
Dialogue: 0,0:10:55.00,0:10:57.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that they might be used indiscriminately --
Dialogue: 0,0:10:57.00,0:10:59.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you use them against a whole range of people
Dialogue: 0,0:10:59.00,0:11:02.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because you don't have to worry so much anymore.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:02.00,0:11:04.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in fact, one particular instance
Dialogue: 0,0:11:04.00,0:11:06.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where I think that actually happens where you can look at it
Dialogue: 0,0:11:06.00,0:11:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was the Dubrovka Theatre siege in Moscow in 2002,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:09.00,0:11:11.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which probably a lot of you, unlike most of my students at ADFA,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:11.00,0:11:13.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are actually old enough to remember.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:13.00,0:11:16.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So Chechens had come in and taken control of the theater.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:16.00,0:11:19.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They were holding something like 700 people hostage.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:19.00,0:11:21.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They'd released a bunch of people,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:21.00,0:11:24.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but they still had about 700 people hostage.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:24.00,0:11:27.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the Russian special military police,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:27.00,0:11:29.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,special forces, Spetsnaz,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:29.00,0:11:31.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,came in and actually stormed the theater.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:31.00,0:11:34.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the way they did it was to pump the whole thing full of anesthetic gas.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:34.00,0:11:36.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it turned out
Dialogue: 0,0:11:36.00,0:11:39.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that lots of these hostages actually died
Dialogue: 0,0:11:39.00,0:11:42.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a result of inhaling the gas.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:42.00,0:11:44.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was used indiscriminately.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:44.00,0:11:47.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They pumped the whole theater full of the gas.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:47.00,0:11:49.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's no surprise that people died,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:49.00,0:11:51.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because you don't know how much of this gas
Dialogue: 0,0:11:51.00,0:11:53.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,each person is going to inhale,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:53.00,0:11:55.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what position they're going to fall in
Dialogue: 0,0:11:55.00,0:11:57.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they become unconscious and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:57.00,0:12:00.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There were, in fact, only a couple of people who got shot
Dialogue: 0,0:12:00.00,0:12:02.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in this episode.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:02.00,0:12:04.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So when they had a look at it afterward,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:04.00,0:12:06.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there were only a couple of people
Dialogue: 0,0:12:06.00,0:12:08.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who'd apparently been shot by the hostage takers
Dialogue: 0,0:12:08.00,0:12:10.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or shot by the police forces
Dialogue: 0,0:12:10.00,0:12:12.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,coming in and trying to deal with the situation.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:12.00,0:12:14.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Virtually everybody that got killed
Dialogue: 0,0:12:14.00,0:12:16.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,got killed from inhaling the gas.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:16.00,0:12:18.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The final toll of hostages
Dialogue: 0,0:12:18.00,0:12:20.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is a little unclear,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:20.00,0:12:22.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it's certainly a few more than that,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:22.00,0:12:24.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because there were other people who died over the next few days.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:24.00,0:12:26.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this was one particular problem they talked about,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:26.00,0:12:28.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it might be used indiscriminately.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:28.00,0:12:30.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Second problem that people sometimes talk about
Dialogue: 0,0:12:30.00,0:12:32.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with military use of non-lethal weapons,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:32.00,0:12:35.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's actually the reason why in the chemical weapons convention,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:35.00,0:12:37.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's very clear that you can't use riot control agents
Dialogue: 0,0:12:37.00,0:12:39.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a weapon of warfare,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:39.00,0:12:42.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the problem with that is that it's seen that sometimes
Dialogue: 0,0:12:42.00,0:12:45.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,non-lethal weapons might actually be used, not as an alternative to lethal force,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:45.00,0:12:48.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but as a lethal force multiplier --
Dialogue: 0,0:12:48.00,0:12:50.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you use non-lethal weapons first
Dialogue: 0,0:12:50.00,0:12:53.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that your lethal weapons will actually be more effective.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:53.00,0:12:55.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The people you're going to be shooting at
Dialogue: 0,0:12:55.00,0:12:57.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,aren't going to be able to get out of the way.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:57.00,0:13:00.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're not going to be aware of what's happening and you can kill them better.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:00.00,0:13:03.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in fact, that's exactly what happened here.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:03.00,0:13:06.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The hostage takers who had been rendered unconscious by the gas
Dialogue: 0,0:13:06.00,0:13:08.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were not taken into custody,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:08.00,0:13:11.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they were simply shot in the head.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:11.00,0:13:13.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this non-lethal weapon
Dialogue: 0,0:13:13.00,0:13:15.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was being used, in fact, in this case
Dialogue: 0,0:13:15.00,0:13:18.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a lethal force multiplier
Dialogue: 0,0:13:18.00,0:13:20.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make killing more effective
Dialogue: 0,0:13:20.00,0:13:23.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in this particular situation.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:23.00,0:13:25.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Another problem that I just want to quickly mention
Dialogue: 0,0:13:25.00,0:13:27.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that there's a whole heap of problems
Dialogue: 0,0:13:27.00,0:13:29.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the way that people actually get taught
Dialogue: 0,0:13:29.00,0:13:31.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to use non-lethal weapons
Dialogue: 0,0:13:31.00,0:13:33.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and get trained about them and then get tested and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:33.00,0:13:36.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because they get tested in nice, safe environments.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:36.00,0:13:39.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And people get taught to use them in nice, safe environments
Dialogue: 0,0:13:39.00,0:13:42.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like this, where you can see exactly what's going on.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:42.00,0:13:45.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The person who's spraying the O.C. spray is wearing a rubber glove
Dialogue: 0,0:13:45.00,0:13:47.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make sure they don't get contaminated and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:47.00,0:13:49.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But they don't ever get used like that.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:49.00,0:13:51.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They get used out in the real world,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:51.00,0:13:55.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like in Texas, like this.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:55.00,0:13:58.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I confess, this particular case
Dialogue: 0,0:13:58.00,0:14:00.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was actually one that piqued my interest in this.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:00.00,0:14:03.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It happened while I was working as a research fellow at the U.S. Naval Academy.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:03.00,0:14:06.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And news reports started coming up about this situation
Dialogue: 0,0:14:06.00,0:14:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where this woman was arguing with the police officer.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:09.00,0:14:11.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She wasn't violent.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:11.00,0:14:13.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, he was probably six inches taller than me,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:13.00,0:14:16.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and she was about this tall.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:16.00,0:14:18.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And eventually she said to him
Dialogue: 0,0:14:18.00,0:14:20.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Well I'm going to get back in my car."
Dialogue: 0,0:14:20.00,0:14:22.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he says, "If you get back into your car, I'm going to tase you."
Dialogue: 0,0:14:22.00,0:14:25.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And she says, "Oh, go ahead. Tase me." And so he does.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:25.00,0:14:27.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's all captured by the video camera
Dialogue: 0,0:14:27.00,0:14:31.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,running in the front of the police car.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:31.00,0:14:34.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So she's 72,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:34.00,0:14:38.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's seen that this is the most appropriate way of dealing with her.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:38.00,0:14:40.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And other examples of the same sorts of things
Dialogue: 0,0:14:40.00,0:14:42.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with other people where you think
Dialogue: 0,0:14:42.00,0:14:45.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where you think, "Is this really an appropriate way to use non-lethal weapons?"
Dialogue: 0,0:14:45.00,0:14:47.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Police chief fires Taser into 14 year-old girl's head."
Dialogue: 0,0:14:47.00,0:14:50.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"She was running away. What else was I suppose to do?"
Dialogue: 0,0:14:50.00,0:14:53.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:14:53.00,0:14:55.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Or Florida:
Dialogue: 0,0:14:55.00,0:14:58.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Police Taser six year-old boy at elementary school."
Dialogue: 0,0:14:58.00,0:15:00.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they clearly learned a lot from it
Dialogue: 0,0:15:00.00,0:15:02.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because in the same district,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:02.00,0:15:04.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Police review policy after children shocked:
Dialogue: 0,0:15:04.00,0:15:07.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,2nd child shocked by Taser stun gun within weeks."
Dialogue: 0,0:15:07.00,0:15:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Same police district.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:09.00,0:15:12.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Another child within weeks of Tasering the six year-old boy.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:12.00,0:15:14.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just in case you think
Dialogue: 0,0:15:14.00,0:15:16.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's only going to happen in the United States,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:16.00,0:15:18.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it happened in Canada as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:18.00,0:15:20.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And a colleague of mine
Dialogue: 0,0:15:20.00,0:15:22.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sent me this one from London.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:22.00,0:15:25.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But my personal favorite of these ones, I have to confess,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:25.00,0:15:28.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,does actually come from the United States:
Dialogue: 0,0:15:28.00,0:15:31.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Officers Taser 86 year-old disabled woman in her bed."
Dialogue: 0,0:15:31.00,0:15:35.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I checked the reports on this one.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:35.00,0:15:38.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I looked at it. I was really surprised.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:38.00,0:15:41.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Apparently she took up a more threatening position in her bed.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:41.00,0:15:43.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:15:43.00,0:15:45.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I kid you not. That's exactly what it said.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:45.00,0:15:48.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"She took up a more threatening position in her bed."
Dialogue: 0,0:15:48.00,0:15:50.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:50.00,0:15:52.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I'd remind you what I'm talking about,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:52.00,0:15:54.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm talking about military uses of non-lethal weapons.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:54.00,0:15:56.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So why is this relevant?
Dialogue: 0,0:15:56.00,0:15:58.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because police are actually more restrained in the use of force
Dialogue: 0,0:15:58.00,0:16:00.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than the military are.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:00.00,0:16:03.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're trained to be more restrained in the use of force than the military are.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:03.00,0:16:06.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're trained to think more, to try and de-escalate.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:06.00,0:16:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if you have these problems with police officers with non-lethal weapons,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:09.00,0:16:11.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what on earth would make you think
Dialogue: 0,0:16:11.00,0:16:14.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's going to be better with military personnel?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:15.00,0:16:18.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The last thing that I would just like to say,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:18.00,0:16:20.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when I'm talking to the police
Dialogue: 0,0:16:20.00,0:16:22.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about what a perfect non-lethal weapon would look like,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:22.00,0:16:24.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they almost inevitably say the same thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:24.00,0:16:27.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They say, "Well, it's got to be something that's nasty enough
Dialogue: 0,0:16:27.00,0:16:29.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that people don't want to be hit with this weapon.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:29.00,0:16:31.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if you threaten to use it,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:31.00,0:16:34.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people are going to comply with it,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:34.00,0:16:36.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it's also going to be something
Dialogue: 0,0:16:36.00,0:16:40.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that doesn't leave any lasting effects."
Dialogue: 0,0:16:40.00,0:16:43.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In other words, your perfect non-lethal weapon
Dialogue: 0,0:16:43.00,0:16:45.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is something that's perfect for abuse.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:45.00,0:16:47.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What would these guys have done
Dialogue: 0,0:16:47.00,0:16:49.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if they'd had access to Tasers
Dialogue: 0,0:16:49.00,0:16:51.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or to a manned, portable version
Dialogue: 0,0:16:51.00,0:16:53.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the Active Denial System --
Dialogue: 0,0:16:53.00,0:16:56.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a small heat ray that you can use on people
Dialogue: 0,0:16:56.00,0:16:58.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and not worry about it.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:58.00,0:17:01.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I think, yes, there may be ways
Dialogue: 0,0:17:01.00,0:17:03.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that non-lethal weapons are going to be great in these situations,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:03.00,0:17:05.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but there's also a whole heap of problems
Dialogue: 0,0:17:05.00,0:17:07.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that need to be considered as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:07.00,0:17:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thanks very much.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:09.00,0:17:11.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Applause)