WEBVTT
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35c3 preroll music
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Herald Angel: Our next speaker speaks
British English. He writes books and he's
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going to talk about those books. He's an
economist and member of the Basic Income
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Earth Network which has its 18th
conference... had its 18th conference this
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year. It's from 1986, 32 years going
strong. Allow me to introduce Guy
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Standing, talking about "The Precariat: A
Disruptive Class for Disruptive Times".
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applause
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Guy Standing: In a book that I wrote in
2011 on page 1, I said that unless the
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insecurities and the fears and the
aspirations of the precariat were
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addressed as a matter of urgency, we would
see the emergence of a political monster.
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You will not be surprised that in November
2016 I received a lot of emails from
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around the world from people who said:
"the monster has arrived". Today,
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ironically, he is in Germany, inspecting
his troops. Maybe a lot of Americans would
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like him to stay in Germany, but I would
not. What I'm going to talk about today is
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something that has involved me in
something I never expected in my life, an
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adventure, because since that book was
published it's been translated into 24
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languages and taken me around the world to
speak in over 500 places and about 40
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countries. And the reason for that is not
the book, but the fact is that the global
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precariat is growing in every part of the
world. And I want to talk about some of
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the background of this disruptive class
that is taking shape, because I think it
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has a resonance with this conference and
similar events taking place. Because as
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someone like myself—I'm an economist—as I
was walking around here this morning, I
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thought: this is the future. You are the
future—if, IF we are to have a future.
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It's up to YOU to define that future. And
I mean it very seriously. We are in the
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midst of a global transformation. Those of
you who are political scientists or know
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political science will understand. Karl
Polanyi wrote a great book in 1944 called
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"The Great Transformation" and his book
was fundamentally about what took place in
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the 19th century and the early part of the
20th century. He described the mid-19th-
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century until the Second World War as "the
disembedded phase of the Great
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Transformation". It was dominated
initially by financial capital, by
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laissez-faire economics and by a
technological revolution that was taking
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place at the time. It took place in which
the dominant groups were around finance
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and monopolies and imperialism. But what
happened in that disembodied phase was
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that insecurities multiplied, inequalities
worsened, wealth inequality grew more than
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income inequality. And in the process we
had the emergence of a new class
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structure, in which the bourgeoisie was
confronted by a solidified proletariat.
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The proletariat were the losers in the
process of two world wars and the Great
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Depression and we had what Polanyi said
was the threat of the annihilation of
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civilization. We all know what happened.
But after the Second World War a new
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embedded phase of his Great Transformation
took place, in which finance was tamed, in
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which social democracy became the dominant
force. Labor based insecurities were
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reduced, inequalities were reduced, and we
had a period in which global trade grew in
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competitive goods, but with similar
standards in the industrialized capitalist
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countries. But there were inherent
contradictions in that embedded phase of
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the Great Transformation. It became
inflationary, it became sluggish. It was
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no golden age. It was no golden age that
prompted 1968, the riots, the revolt
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against the system. It was a period of
drabness in many ways, when full time
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stable jobs were meant to be the Nirvana
but it stultified the human creativities,
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it stultified subversive thinking. It was
a period in which there were many
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improvements, but it had its limitations.
As we all know that Great Transformation
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collapsed in the 1970s and 1980s and
ushered in the disembedded phase of the
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global transformation. The disembedded
phase was dominated by neoliberalism in
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economics, by the emergence of politicians
like Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan
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to put those neoliberal ideas into
practice. It was dominated by the
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emergence of US dominated financial
institutions like Goldman Sachs that
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became great umbrellas around the world,
and it ushered in to a new technological
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revolution that you're all dealing with
today. For my story, the most important
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aspect of the early phase of that
technological revolution was that it made
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the relocation of production and
employment much easier, so that the
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relocation depended on relative costs. And
it strengthened the power of capital over
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labor. So we see around the world in EVERY
country a shift in which more and more of
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the income goes to capital and less and
less goes to labor. It's a phenomenon that
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spread around the world. And the
technological revolution also meant that
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capital mobility increased dramatically
and we have some other interesting
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developments which I come to in a moment.
But inequalities have increased,
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insecurities have become vastly greater in
every part of the world. We have a new
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gilded age at the top and at the bottom,
and that gilded age has gone with a new
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Kondratiev long wave of technological
revolution, which has helped in the
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relocation again of the geopolitical POWER
that is so important today. We have, now,
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moved away from the neoliberal era of the
1980s and 1990s and a pivotal event came
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in 1994, when the passage of TRIPS by the
World Trade Organization—TRIPS: Trade-
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Related Aspects of Intellectual Property.
What this did is globalize the American
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system of intellectual property rights,
with patents, with copyright, with brands,
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with all of the adages that go with that
system. So now we have a system in which
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about a quarter of the world's
GDP—national income—is attributable to
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intellectual property rights. Some of you
benefit from patents and other copyrights
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rights and so on, but it's a system that
has entrenched powerful big corporations.
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So we have big pharma, we have big finance
and above all, we have big tech. The big
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tech are rentiers taking more and more
from the world's income pile. And in
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effect we have rentier capitalism today,
not a free market. This is the most UNfree
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market system ever created in history.
Where more and more of the income is going
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to the owners of property. Physical
property, financial property, and
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intellectual property. We've had a
breakdown of the income distribution
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system of the 20th century, it's broken.
Wages have been stagnating in all
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industrialized countries for three
decades. Three decades! They are lower in
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the United States in real wage terms than
they were in the 1980s. The implications
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are dramatic and above all we've got a new
global class structure that has taken
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shape. The class structure has a
plutocracy at the top. It's not the top
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1%, it's the top ZERO point one percent of
multibillionaires striding the globe as
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global citizens, taking more and more
rental income. Take someone like Jeff
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Bezos. His income has grown by four
hundred million dollars per WEEK this
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year. This is obscenity, multiplied. This
plutocracy of course now have a
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representative in the White House, as
their spokesperson. We have other
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plutocrats manipulating our politics,
manipulating our technology, manipulating
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our commons. These are the realities.
Beneath the plutocracy is an elite who are
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the servants of the plutocrats, who are
making many millions of dollars, euros,
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pounds or whatever and are servants. We
don't have to feel sorry for them either.
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Below them is the salariat. When I was a
student, we were told and we were taught
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and we believed that by the end of the
20th century the vast majority of us would
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be part of the salariat with stable
salaried employment, with pensions to look
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forward to, paid holidays, paid medical
leave, paid this, paid that, paid the
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rest. The only problem is that the
salariat has been shrinking everywhere in
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the world. It won't disappear, but today
many in the salariat worry about their
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daughters and their sons because they're
not going into the salariat. Below the
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salariat, just, is what a group I call in
the books the proficians, a combination of
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professionals and technicians. Many in
this hall this morning are part of the
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proficians. But be careful: these people
don't want full time stable jobs. They
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don't want to be saying "yes", "no" to a
boss. They're making good money, they're
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rushing around with their laptops or what
ever over their shoulders. They're making
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a lot of money. They're making a lot of
money and they are tending to be
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complacent. But they should worry about
burn out. They should worry about mental
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illness at age 28 and a half, or
thereabouts. The proficians are helping in
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identifying the technological and
political options for the future, they
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have a responsibility. But they must not
lose that responsibility in an egotistic
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narcissistic pursuit, a private gain. It's
a difficult balancing act. But they have a
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responsibility because they have the
skills, they have the knowledge, and they
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know what's going on. Beneath these
groups: the old proletariat, disappearing
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everywhere. They were the ones that
established social democracy, the trade
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unions, collective bargaining, tripartism,
all the institutions of the International
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Labor Organization. But today they are
shrinking everywhere, and along with them
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their political representatives are
effectively dead men walking. They are not
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the future. They did many good things in
the 20th century. I do not wish to
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disparage them in any way, but they are
not the future. Beneath the precariat in
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terms of income is the precariat, beneath
the proletariat is the precariat. The
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precariat can be defined in three
dimensions. The first dimension is that if
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you're in a precariat you are being told
and you are being habituated to accept a
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life of unstable labour and insecure work.
You don't have an occupational narrative
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to give to your life, an occupational
identity. "I am something." You worry that
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tomorrow morning you'll have to be
something else. You also have to do a lot
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of work for labour, work that is not
recognised, not remunerated, not in our
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statistics, but you know you have to do
it, otherwise you will pay a price. And in
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being in the precariat you don't know the
optimum use of your time. Should I spend a
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little more time networking, doing this,
retraining, going to a conference, doing
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this, doing that. Looking after my baby,
paying the rent. And therefore you suffer
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from what I've called the precariatised
mind. The precariatised mind, when you're
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stressed, you're anxious all the time. You
put a good face on it, but every now and
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then you see your friends collapsing in
one way or the other. That's how it feels
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for many people. Every day I receive
emails from various people from various
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places who don't know me who want to
explain their experience. Sometimes I get
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very angry, sometimes I feel like crying.
But the pain out there is part of the
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process of liberation as well. It's not
just a victimhood, it's about people
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trying to make sense. Of a life of
insecurity. And another feature is that
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people in the precariat tend to have a
level of agitation that is above the level
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of labor they can expect to obtain. The
second dimension of the precariat is that
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people in it have distinctive relations of
distribution. What that means is they have
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to rely very largely on money wages, money
payments. They don't get access to the
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prospect of pensions or paid holidays or
paid medical leave or subsidised this or
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subsidised that, they have to live on
wages. The only problem is that the value
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of those wages is tending to go down and
the volatility of their income is growing.
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So basically the second aspect of this
distributional question is that most
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people in the precariat are living on the
level of unsustainable debt. One mistake,
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one illness, one bad decision and you
could be tipped out into the lumpen-
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precariat, outside society, without a
voice. And of course at the same time the
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state has been changing its social
security and social protection system
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towards more targeting on the poor. So
it's reduced the social solidarity of the
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social protection system, and this hits
the precariat in a very big way. Because
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state benefits, welfare benefits, have
been shrinking and they've been means-
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tested and behaviour-tested, drifting to
Hartz 4 or the equivalent in other
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countries, where you're expected to
behave as the state tells you to behave.
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Not enough people realise what is
happening down at that end of the labour
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market, the indignities that go with it.
The shame, the stigma, the poverty traps.
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Whereby if you do get a benefit and you
then have the offer of a low wage job,
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you're losing as much in benefits as you
get from the low wage job. You're facing a
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marginal tax rate of 80% in Germany, 86%
in Denmark, 80% in Britain. If the middle
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classes had to accept such marginal tax
rates there would be riots in the street.
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But that is what society expects of the
precariat. It's NOT funny. And in
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addition, and what I think is most
importantly about the precariat: it has
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distinctive relations to the state, the
institutions of society and governance.
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The precariat is losing the rights of
citizenship often without realising it,
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they're losing cultural rights because
they cannot belong to organizations that
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represent their cultural identity or
aspirations. They're losing civil rights
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because they cannot get access to due
process and legal justice. They're losing
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social rights because they don't have
access to rights-based benefits and
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services. They're losing economic rights
because they cannot practice what they are
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perfectly qualified to do. And above all
they're losing political rights because
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they don't see out there politicians or
political parties that represent what they
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are and what they want to be. Now in that
context I've described the precariat today
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in an old Marxian term: it's a class in
the making. Not yet a class for itself.
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And what I mean by that is that while
millions of people share the objective
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characteristics of being in the precariat,
they have different consciousness of what
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it is. And you can divide the precariat
into three groups. The first I call the
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atavists. These are those who do not have
a lot of education, but their parents and
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their families and communities used to be
in the proletariat, used to have working
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class backgrounds of being dockers or
steelworkers or car workers or whatever.
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This group is relating their deprivation
of today to a lost Yesterday, real or
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imagined. That lost Yesterday they want
back. It's this group that supports the
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Donald Trumps. It's this group that
supported Brexit in Britain. It's this
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group that supports the Marine Le Pen's,
the Orbans and the equivalent in Germany
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and elsewhere. This group supported the
Liga in Italy. You can name right wing
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populist groups. There's good news and bad
news. The bad news here is that they are
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proving to be profoundly strong. We risk
today that that group could lead us into a
00:25:40.890 --> 00:25:51.490
new dark political future, characterized
by demonizing migrants and minorities,
00:25:51.490 --> 00:26:03.210
authoritarian tendencies, destructive,
vile outcomes. But there's good news. In
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my view, they have reached their peak in
terms of size. Many are getting older of
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that type, and they will not lead the
other two groups in the same direction.
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The second group in the precariat are what
I call the Nostalgics. These are made up
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with the migrants, the minorities, the
disabled, people who feel they have no
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sense of home. They don't have a home
there, they don't have a home here, but
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they dream of a home. This group knows
it's losing rights, it's being demonized,
00:26:49.340 --> 00:26:56.490
it's being victimized. But they will not
support a neofascist populism. They keep
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their heads down because they have to
survive. Every now and then, there are
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days of rage when everything gets too
much, but this group is LOOKING for a
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home. It's LOOKING for a future. Its
relative deprivation is: it's got a lost
00:27:16.070 --> 00:27:23.380
now. The first group a lost past, the
second group a lost now. The third group
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in the precariat are what I call the
progressives. These are the millions of
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people who went to college, went to
university and were told by their parents
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and by their teachers: go to university
and you will get a future! A future! A
00:27:46.360 --> 00:27:55.430
career, status, influence, dignity. And
they come out of university and college
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knowing they don't have that future. All
they have are debts, disillusions, and
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difficulties. This group is entering the
precariat. It will not support neofascist
00:28:13.760 --> 00:28:25.320
populism, it is looking for a future. It
is looking for a new politics of paradise.
00:28:25.320 --> 00:28:33.580
There are many people at this conference I
believe are in this third part. The bad
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news is they've been dismissing politics
because they know very wisely that it's
00:28:43.370 --> 00:28:51.430
being cynically manipulated by the
plutocrats and by others, and therefore
00:28:51.430 --> 00:28:57.001
they have detached themselves from
politics. The trouble with that is that it
00:28:57.001 --> 00:29:05.510
surrenders the ground to the others with a
regressive, antidemocratic, anti-
00:29:05.510 --> 00:29:16.440
enlightenment perspective. But the good
news is this: since the crisis of 2008 and
00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:23.740
particularly since the Occupy movement and
the Arab Spring in 2011 and the Indignado
00:29:23.740 --> 00:29:32.040
movement, more of this third part of the
precariat are reengaging with politics.
00:29:32.040 --> 00:29:40.490
They're reengaging in different ways,
beginning to forge an agenda for that
00:29:40.490 --> 00:29:51.600
future. And I believe that if you take a
historical perspective, then I only wish I
00:29:51.600 --> 00:30:04.480
were 21. I would love to be 21 because if
you are 21, you have a vacuum, you have an
00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:14.380
opportunity to forge a fundamentally
enlightenment-led future. Let me give you
00:30:14.380 --> 00:30:23.480
by way of conclusion a few thoughts on
what that might be. The thoughts are
00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:32.400
these: today are income distribution
system is broken. We can't put yesterday
00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:40.270
back. Therefore we have to build a new
income distribution system. We will not
00:30:40.270 --> 00:30:47.520
get anywhere by trying to raise wages. But
we WILL get somewhere if we decide that
00:30:47.520 --> 00:30:56.920
what society has to do is recycle the rent
from the technocrats, the financiers and
00:30:56.920 --> 00:31:07.460
the property owners to the commons, to the
commoners. We must build that distribution
00:31:07.460 --> 00:31:17.770
system by returning to the values of the
enlightenment, of egalité, liberté,
00:31:17.770 --> 00:31:26.220
fraternité or solidarité. And to do that,
I strongly believe that one part of this
00:31:26.220 --> 00:31:33.710
new income distribution system should be a
basic income that everybody has as a
00:31:33.710 --> 00:31:44.760
right.
applause
00:31:44.760 --> 00:31:52.030
I have had the privilege of working for
this for thirty years since before BIEN.
00:31:52.030 --> 00:31:56.920
Anybody can join BIEN, we have many
Germans who are part of it. We have
00:31:56.920 --> 00:32:02.860
thousands and thousands of people who are
members. For many years we were regarded
00:32:02.860 --> 00:32:10.330
as crazy, mad, bad and dangerous, but
suddenly in the last few years we've
00:32:10.330 --> 00:32:20.620
suddenly become respectable, at least
tolerated. I've had the privilege of
00:32:20.620 --> 00:32:29.809
designing and conducting basic income
pilots in four continents, the biggest
00:32:29.809 --> 00:32:37.080
being in India. Anybody who's interested:
I've written a book, "Basic income: and
00:32:37.080 --> 00:32:43.380
how we can make it happen". But let me
just tell you what happened in India, a
00:32:43.380 --> 00:32:50.870
country that's poor, a country that
poverty is terrifying. And when we decided
00:32:50.870 --> 00:32:56.290
we would do it, and we mobilized money, we
provided 6000 people, men, women and
00:32:56.290 --> 00:33:02.940
children, with basic income. Sonia Gandhi
told us, herself, she said you're wasting
00:33:02.940 --> 00:33:13.920
the money, they're wasted on drink and
drugs. Two years later, after we had done
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:19.620
the pilot and seen what had happened, she
called us back to our house and she said
00:33:19.620 --> 00:33:26.320
she wished she had known. What happened
was that when they started receiving the
00:33:26.320 --> 00:33:31.790
basic income they did what all of us in
this room would do. They started giving
00:33:31.790 --> 00:33:37.600
their children better food, so nutrition
improved, health of the children improved,
00:33:37.600 --> 00:33:44.920
schooling improved, health and nutrition
of others, adults, improved. People with
00:33:44.920 --> 00:33:52.910
disabilities suddenly had a basic income
with which they could be citizens. Womens'
00:33:52.910 --> 00:34:04.429
status improved, sanitation in the
villages improved. Work increased,
00:34:04.429 --> 00:34:11.719
production increased. If you go to those
villages today, you would have seen a
00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:21.099
transformation. Now that happened in a
poor place. We also did it in Africa,
00:34:21.099 --> 00:34:26.980
where very similar results were showing.
We've now got pilots in Canada and some
00:34:26.980 --> 00:34:32.780
hopefully launched soon in Scotland, and
the opposition leadership in Britain has
00:34:32.780 --> 00:34:40.179
asked me to prepare a plan for doing it in
Britain. If you had told me 10 years ago
00:34:40.179 --> 00:34:46.129
that any of those things would have
happened, I would have said I must have
00:34:46.129 --> 00:34:54.710
had something to smoke or drink, because I
must be hallucinating. But change can come
00:34:54.710 --> 00:35:05.069
quicker than we think. It is up to US. I
want to tell you one story. I still have a
00:35:05.069 --> 00:35:10.910
few minutes, I hope, I thought... is
that... what's that figure? I don't know,
00:35:10.910 --> 00:35:20.499
but I'm going to tell the story. When we
were launching the pilot in India, we went
00:35:20.499 --> 00:35:29.671
to one village and all the young women had
veils. And we had to have their photo
00:35:29.671 --> 00:35:36.490
taken for the cards, so that they could
get their monthly basic income, and we had
00:35:36.490 --> 00:35:42.499
to persuade them to go into a hut with
other women to have their photos taken. 9
00:35:42.499 --> 00:35:48.009
or 10 months later I went back to that
particular village and I said to one of my
00:35:48.009 --> 00:35:55.849
Indian colleagues, I said, "Have you
noticed a difference here?" He said, "No,
00:35:55.849 --> 00:36:04.550
no." I said, "What difference?" He said,
"Nothing, perhaps better sanitation."
00:36:04.550 --> 00:36:13.039
"No," I said, "None of the women are
wearing veils." He said: "Yeah!". So we
00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:18.910
called some of the women across and we
said, "Look, excuse us, but you wore
00:36:18.910 --> 00:36:25.910
veils, you're not wearing veils now. Why?"
They were shy. They didn't want to speak
00:36:25.910 --> 00:36:30.869
to a foreigner and so on. But after a
while one of the young women spoke up and
00:36:30.869 --> 00:36:40.879
she said, "You know, before we had to do
what the elders told us to do. Now we have
00:36:40.879 --> 00:36:48.089
a basic income, we can do
what we want to do.
00:36:48.089 --> 00:36:57.190
applause
Standing: And there is an e– there is an
00:36:57.190 --> 00:37:05.210
even more poignant story in our Namibian
pilot. At the end of that one I went to
00:37:05.210 --> 00:37:10.609
one of the villages and I asked some young
women. I said, "What was the best thing
00:37:10.609 --> 00:37:18.640
about having a basic income, what was the
best thing?" They talked to each other,
00:37:18.640 --> 00:37:25.249
giggled, you know, again, talking to a
foreigner and so on. And then one of the
00:37:25.249 --> 00:37:32.880
young women said, "You know, before, when
the men came down from the fields at the
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:45.229
end of the month, with their wages in
their pockets, we had to say: 'Yes'. Now
00:37:45.229 --> 00:37:55.400
we have our basic income. We say 'No'."
That's emancipation. And if you can put an
00:37:55.400 --> 00:38:01.420
analogy in Germany or Britain or anywhere
else, you will find that this ability to
00:38:01.420 --> 00:38:08.109
say 'No' to exploitation and oppression is
a fundamental part about a progressive
00:38:08.109 --> 00:38:16.790
agenda for the 21st century. We have to
find a way of liberating people to say
00:38:16.790 --> 00:38:25.210
'No' and also to say 'Yes', to say 'Yes'
to the ability to help people to do
00:38:25.210 --> 00:38:35.039
things, to care, to participate in the
ecological aspects of life. And I think it
00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:47.280
will help in both respects. In that
context, let me conclude by saying: a
00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:55.420
basic income is not a panacea. It must be
part of a new system. We need new forms of
00:38:55.420 --> 00:39:03.299
voice. We need new forms of work. We need
to realize today the new technologies are
00:39:03.299 --> 00:39:14.350
potentially liberating us to escape from
labour, so that we can do more work. Most
00:39:14.350 --> 00:39:22.549
languages distinguishes the difference but
only in the 20th century were we stupid
00:39:22.549 --> 00:39:34.420
enough to think only labour counts as
work. I have never worked harder than
00:39:34.420 --> 00:39:40.609
since I stopped doing labour, since I
stopped having a job.
00:39:40.609 --> 00:39:46.819
applause
Standing: And what we have to do, what we
00:39:46.819 --> 00:39:54.349
have to do, is convince the politicians
and the social scientists that they should
00:39:54.349 --> 00:40:02.059
change their thinking about what is work
and what is not work. Every feminist—and
00:40:02.059 --> 00:40:08.049
we should all be feminists—every feminist
should be demanding that they change their
00:40:08.049 --> 00:40:15.909
concepts, because it means that most of
the work women do doesn't count as work.
00:40:15.909 --> 00:40:20.161
It's ridiculous, it's sexist,
it's arbitrary.
00:40:20.161 --> 00:40:30.820
applause
For me, this has given a new dimension
00:40:30.820 --> 00:40:34.039
because of the growth of the precariat,
because if you're in the precariat you
00:40:34.039 --> 00:40:41.540
know you have to do a lot of work. A lot
of work. And you're treated as if you're
00:40:41.540 --> 00:40:51.349
being lazy. But there's another wonderful
opportunity here. We all know or should
00:40:51.349 --> 00:41:00.070
know that we are threatened by extinction.
Extinction that comes from the greenhouse
00:41:00.070 --> 00:41:06.369
gas emissions, the pollution, the erosion
of the commons, the privatization of our
00:41:06.369 --> 00:41:17.529
spaces, our loss of nature, our loss of an
ecological landscape. We know that. It's
00:41:17.529 --> 00:41:23.229
the number one crisis charging towards us.
We didn't need the panel of climate change
00:41:23.229 --> 00:41:29.940
to tell us that, but we know it. And what
are we doing? We've just seen in Poland,
00:41:29.940 --> 00:41:39.339
hardly anything. We need big carbon taxes.
Big carbon taxes.
00:41:39.339 --> 00:41:45.359
applause
But there are two problems. There are two
00:41:45.359 --> 00:41:55.980
problems. First, taxes are unpopular. And
second, if you just put a carbon tax, it
00:41:55.980 --> 00:42:02.380
would worsen inequality. Because the poor
person pays proportionately more than the
00:42:02.380 --> 00:42:13.790
rich person. Therefore we need to combine
carbon taxes with carbon dividends. So
00:42:13.790 --> 00:42:21.070
that the proceeds of carbon taxes are
recycled. I think most of you can work it
00:42:21.070 --> 00:42:28.890
out where I'm ending this discussion.
Recycled as basic incomes. The carbon tax
00:42:28.890 --> 00:42:37.029
can pay for a large part of a basic income
future, and therefore this perspective
00:42:37.029 --> 00:42:43.859
leads to you thinking: we can advance the
cause of ecological survival, advance the
00:42:43.859 --> 00:42:51.109
cause of security, advance the cause of
emancipation and do what every
00:42:51.109 --> 00:43:01.279
transformative class should do. The
precariat is a transformative class
00:43:01.279 --> 00:43:09.710
because it wants, intuitively, to abolish
the conditions that define its existence.
00:43:09.710 --> 00:43:18.430
And therefore—abolish itself. We can do
it. Thank you very much.
00:43:18.430 --> 00:43:40.969
applause
Herald: Thanks very much. They say on
00:43:40.969 --> 00:43:45.440
Congress every time, every year we have a
system that we don't want to use anymore,
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:50.050
I think it's capitalism.
laughter
00:43:50.050 --> 00:43:55.039
applause
Herald: We're going to hold a Q&A
00:43:55.039 --> 00:44:00.390
including your questions from the
Internet. There are six microphones
00:44:00.390 --> 00:44:08.079
scattered around the room, so if anybody
wants to ask a question in public, we'll
00:44:08.079 --> 00:44:14.969
start this now. And we'll start with mic
six over there.
00:44:14.969 --> 00:44:19.580
Question: Brilliant. So...
Standing: Where is mike six?
00:44:19.580 --> 00:44:21.210
Q: Here.
Herald: Mike six is over there.
00:44:21.210 --> 00:44:27.269
Standing: OK. Hello. So
Q: Hi, I was wondering... you mentioned
00:44:27.269 --> 00:44:34.099
basic income and you connected it with
carbon taxes. I was wondering what other
00:44:34.099 --> 00:44:43.259
strategies you're thinking towards
tackling other systemic issues we have,
00:44:43.259 --> 00:44:50.509
especially in regards to land, which to
me– you mentioned different types of
00:44:50.509 --> 00:44:58.130
property. But the thing that land today is
the proxy to access to all the other
00:44:58.130 --> 00:45:03.880
values. So...
Standing: Shall I answer that one?
00:45:03.880 --> 00:45:06.979
Herald: Yes.
Standing: Okay, thank you very much. I've
00:45:06.979 --> 00:45:12.039
got a new book coming out to make me more
boring. It's called "Plunder of the
00:45:12.039 --> 00:45:19.609
Commons". And basically, what you've
touched on is the theme of this book. If
00:45:19.609 --> 00:45:26.710
you think of the commons, the natural
commons, the social commons, the civil
00:45:26.710 --> 00:45:35.660
commons, all our commons including land,
water, the air, our amenities and so on.
00:45:35.660 --> 00:45:43.059
We've allowed the privatization and
colonization of the commons to take profit
00:45:43.059 --> 00:45:49.990
from our commons, and therefore we need a
system of levies to say: Hey, we want the
00:45:49.990 --> 00:45:56.260
rental income back for the commoners, and
that includes land. That's why I strongly
00:45:56.260 --> 00:46:04.180
favor a Land Value Tax. A Land Value Tax
is a very efficient tax and it has to be
00:46:04.180 --> 00:46:10.670
part of building this commons fund along
the Alaska Permanent Fund. Principles of
00:46:10.670 --> 00:46:15.680
those... you're all familiar with that. We
also need it for water, for air, for
00:46:15.680 --> 00:46:23.930
digital information. I don't believe
taxing robots, as Bill Gates proposes, is
00:46:23.930 --> 00:46:29.190
the answer. What I do believe is we should
put a levy on all the information that
00:46:29.190 --> 00:46:35.920
Amazon and Facebook and the others are
taking from us free and making billions.
00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:38.830
We should have a levy on that,
applause
00:46:38.830 --> 00:46:43.600
Standing: ... and the levy the levy should
go to everybody equally. Because you
00:46:43.600 --> 00:46:49.200
cannot attribute the profits they're
making to any individual. We have to give
00:46:49.200 --> 00:46:55.471
it to everybody. And if we do that we are
all the time building the fund that can
00:46:55.471 --> 00:47:00.960
help pay out towards a decent basic
income. So that's my answer to your
00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:07.469
question.
Herald: Thanks very much. Mic four.
00:47:07.469 --> 00:47:14.290
Q: Hi, thank you for being here. Great
pleasure. Just recently, Sahra Wagenknecht
00:47:14.290 --> 00:47:20.520
was invited in a talkshow about basic
income and future of work. She's the
00:47:20.520 --> 00:47:26.039
leader of the German party The Left, "Die
Linke". She said that she don't like the
00:47:26.039 --> 00:47:33.050
idea of basic income. Her two arguments
are she don't like it. Regarding merchant
00:47:33.050 --> 00:47:39.079
neoliberal powers, they also like the idea
of basic income. For example the CEO of
00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:45.990
Volkswagen and other big players and
second, she said if you move to a basic
00:47:45.990 --> 00:47:52.109
income, we will lose a lot of—we, as
society—will lose a lot of protection and
00:47:52.109 --> 00:48:00.020
social benefits. What would be your
reaction on her opinion?
00:48:00.020 --> 00:48:06.529
Standing: I address this question in my
basic income book in the following way:
00:48:06.529 --> 00:48:17.549
every new idea in history, in social
policy in particular, has been greeted, at
00:48:17.549 --> 00:48:24.980
the time, by people saying it will
threaten something else and that it will
00:48:24.980 --> 00:48:31.510
lead to unintended negative consequences.
They said this about unemployment
00:48:31.510 --> 00:48:37.999
benefits. They said it about family
benefits. And then, when it's introduced,
00:48:37.999 --> 00:48:50.909
suddenly the objections go away. To me, I
asked myself the following question: Do I
00:48:50.909 --> 00:49:00.230
want that person, or that person, or the
person I meet in the street... do I want
00:49:00.230 --> 00:49:09.110
that person to have the basic security of
being able to pay for food, to pay for
00:49:09.110 --> 00:49:17.950
their rent, and to buy decent clothes? Do
I want that? And I say very easily to
00:49:17.950 --> 00:49:25.349
myself: yes! I want that! Don't tell me
that it's going to be a threat to
00:49:25.349 --> 00:49:33.579
something else if that person has basic
security! Why is it, that so many social
00:49:33.579 --> 00:49:41.579
democrats make this argument? I've
confronted many, including one major trade
00:49:41.579 --> 00:49:47.250
union leader. I said, "why are you so
hostile to having people base– have basic
00:49:47.250 --> 00:49:56.690
income? Why?" And the man who was chairing
the session when I was talking, he said,
00:49:56.690 --> 00:50:02.540
"I think we'll have a coffee break now"
before anybody could answer and when we
00:50:02.540 --> 00:50:08.740
came back he said "Well now we'll move on
to the next session" and the trade union
00:50:08.740 --> 00:50:15.300
leader at the back stood up and he said
"No, I think we should answer the
00:50:15.300 --> 00:50:23.539
question". And he said "you know I think
the answer is, that if people had basic
00:50:23.539 --> 00:50:33.690
security, they wouldn't be dependent on
us. They wouldn't join trade unions" and I
00:50:33.690 --> 00:50:36.309
looked at him.
applause
00:50:36.309 --> 00:50:43.910
I looked at him and I said "just imagine
the morality of what you've just said. The
00:50:43.910 --> 00:50:51.369
morality is, you want people to be fearful
and insecure, because you want to gain." I
00:50:51.369 --> 00:50:57.519
said "But you're also wrong. Because
you're wrong in the following respect:
00:50:57.519 --> 00:51:04.160
people who are insecure and frightened
don't engage in politics they don't engage
00:51:04.160 --> 00:51:11.619
in society. They've got too many things to
worry about. If they have basic security,
00:51:11.619 --> 00:51:17.180
they're more likely to stand up and fight
for rights, more likely to stand up and
00:51:17.180 --> 00:51:25.230
fight for the ecology, more likely to be
good citizens. Why don't you trust people
00:51:25.230 --> 00:51:34.339
more? Why are you so bureaucratic and
distrustful? Believe it. We need a new
00:51:34.339 --> 00:51:40.940
distribution system. And don't tell me
neo-liberalism is going to destroy it.
00:51:40.940 --> 00:51:47.000
They're destroying what we've got anyhow.
We can do better than that and if you
00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:53.680
deny, you—people who say this not you, but
people who say that—you are denying the
00:51:53.680 --> 00:51:59.069
enlightenment freedoms that we should be
fighting for! So I say, stop being so
00:51:59.069 --> 00:52:05.739
negative, to those people. Sorry. I was a
bit angry but apologized.
00:52:05.739 --> 00:52:11.229
applause
Herald: laughs you've got all reason to.
00:52:11.229 --> 00:52:16.020
A question from the Internet.
Internet: There was a popular vote in
00:52:16.020 --> 00:52:20.080
Switzerland on basic income and it was
massively rejected. How do you analyse
00:52:20.080 --> 00:52:23.919
that, what should be the way forward, and
how can we inaudible against the
00:52:23.919 --> 00:52:30.409
globalists who oppose basic income?
Standing: I ... again address that
00:52:30.409 --> 00:52:37.519
particular referendum. I participated in
the referendum. We had no money. We
00:52:37.519 --> 00:52:42.440
mobilized a hundred twenty five thousand
signatures, literally going in the
00:52:42.440 --> 00:52:47.729
streets. All the banks were putting up
money. The main political parties were
00:52:47.729 --> 00:52:54.479
opposed, etc. But we were doing
fantastically well. We got up to about 40
00:52:54.479 --> 00:53:01.200
percent opinion poll support applause
and then one of our leaders, one of our
00:53:01.200 --> 00:53:07.769
leaders without permission from any of us,
went on television and an interviewer
00:53:07.769 --> 00:53:14.089
asked him, he said "Well how much do you
think the basic income should be?" and the
00:53:14.089 --> 00:53:19.300
man, instead of saying it's up to
parliament and everything, which is what
00:53:19.300 --> 00:53:25.530
the referendum said, he said it should be
two thousand five hundred Swiss francs per
00:53:25.530 --> 00:53:33.650
month. Which, for your information, is
considerably higher than all the rural
00:53:33.650 --> 00:53:41.949
areas, the rural cantons, in Switzerland.
At that moment we lost the referendum. We
00:53:41.949 --> 00:53:49.410
lost. I'm proud of the fact that in Geneva
we got 38 percent. And that was where I
00:53:49.410 --> 00:53:53.359
was campaigning—it had nothing to do with
me, but the fact was that they had more
00:53:53.359 --> 00:53:59.080
meetings and more people could understand
what the politics were. But the greatest
00:53:59.080 --> 00:54:05.099
thing about that referendum is that today
people in Switzerland in the auberges, the
00:54:05.099 --> 00:54:14.049
cafes, they're talking about basic income,
they know what it means. I gave a talk
00:54:14.049 --> 00:54:21.810
recently in a big theater in Geneva. There
were hundreds and hundreds of people. Many
00:54:21.810 --> 00:54:27.130
of those had not participated. If there is
another referendum I think it will
00:54:27.130 --> 00:54:36.150
succeed. Switzerland has a history of even
very mild ideas losing in the first
00:54:36.150 --> 00:54:41.489
referendum and then a few years later a
second referendum, they pass. So I'm
00:54:41.489 --> 00:54:50.500
actually optimistic that it will come in
Switzerland—but not 2500.
00:54:50.500 --> 00:54:56.599
Herald: Thank you. Mic six again.
Mic 6: I think a lot of the ideas you
00:54:56.599 --> 00:55:03.010
presented here are, like, respected in the
community and the Congress. But how can we
00:55:03.010 --> 00:55:09.179
change the society? How can we change the
mind of all the other people to also
00:55:09.179 --> 00:55:16.340
considers these ideas to transform to a
new society?
00:55:16.340 --> 00:55:25.279
Standing: I think this is the biggest
question you could ask. I strongly believe
00:55:25.279 --> 00:55:36.599
that it's up to us. It really is up to us.
Politicians have spaghetti in backbones.
00:55:36.599 --> 00:55:44.839
Our job is to strengthen the spaghetti.
Our job is to desplain why dreaming of the
00:55:44.839 --> 00:55:54.559
impossible leads to it becoming possible,
and then happening. I believe that we have
00:55:54.559 --> 00:56:04.059
to be taking part in any small way we can.
I will tell you a secret. Yesterday a very
00:56:04.059 --> 00:56:10.690
good friend of mine, an economist, very
well-known economist. He contacted me and
00:56:10.690 --> 00:56:16.040
we were talking and he said : "Guy, why
are you wasting your time going to
00:56:16.040 --> 00:56:24.349
Leipzig? On December the 27th, when you
should be having relaxation with
00:56:24.349 --> 00:56:36.779
Christmas?" and I said "John, that's not
it. I hope that just one person, just one,
00:56:36.779 --> 00:56:45.519
will leave this room, with more energy and
with more thought than when I started.
00:56:45.519 --> 00:56:53.190
Just one." That would be worth coming to
Leipzig. I feel energized. I hope somebody
00:56:53.190 --> 00:56:58.789
here feels energized. We have to realise
that it is up to us. We have no excuse for
00:56:58.789 --> 00:57:08.660
cynicism. We have to challenge the Trumps.
We can't let them win. For our children
00:57:08.660 --> 00:57:21.329
and grandchildren, we can't let them win.
applause
00:57:21.329 --> 00:57:25.710
Herald: Thank you very much. I think
you'll be around for more questions. We're
00:57:25.710 --> 00:57:31.999
out of time, sorry, but you can ask those
questions directly and I think they will
00:57:31.999 --> 00:57:36.145
be answered in great length.
Standing: Thank you.
00:57:36.145 --> 00:57:41.384
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00:57:41.384 --> 00:57:59.000
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