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Herald Angel: Our next speaker speaks
British English. He writes books and he's
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going to talk about those books. He's an
economist and member of the Basic Income
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Earth Network which has its 18th
conference... had its 18th conference this
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year. It's from 1986, 32 years going
strong. Allow me to introduce Guy
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Standing, talking about "The Precariat: A
Disruptive Class for Disruptive Times".
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applause
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Guy Standing: In a book that I wrote in
2011 on page 1, I said that unless the
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insecurities and the fears and the
aspirations of the precariat were
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addressed as a matter of urgency, we would
see the emergence of a political monster.
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You will not be surprised that in November
2016 I received a lot of emails from
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around the world from people who said:
"the monster has arrived". Today,
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ironically, he is in Germany, inspecting
his troops. Maybe a lot of Americans would
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like him to stay in Germany, but I would
not. What I'm going to talk about today is
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something that has involved me in
something I never expected in my life, an
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adventure, because since that book was
published it's been translated into 24
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languages and taken me around the world to
speak in over 500 places and about 40
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countries. And the reason for that is not
the book, but the fact is that the global
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precariat is growing in every part of the
world. And I want to talk about some of
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the background of this disruptive class
that is taking shape, because I think it
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has a resonance with this conference and
similar events taking place. Because as
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someone like myself—I'm an economist—as I
was walking around here this morning, I
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thought: this is the future. You are the
future—if, IF we are to have a future.
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It's up to YOU to define that future. And
I mean it very seriously. We are in the
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midst of a global transformation. Those of
you who are political scientists or know
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political science will understand. Karl
Polanyi wrote a great book in 1944 called
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"The Great Transformation" and his book
was fundamentally about what took place in
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the 19th century and the early part of the
20th century. He described the mid-19th-
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century until the Second World War as "the
disembedded phase of the Great
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Transformation". It was dominated
initially by financial capital, by
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laissez-faire economics and by a
technological revolution that was taking
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place at the time. It took place in which
the dominant groups were around finance
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and monopolies and imperialism. But what
happened in that disembodied phase was
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that insecurities multiplied, inequalities
worsened, wealth inequality grew more than
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income inequality. And in the process we
had the emergence of a new class
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structure, in which the bourgeoisie was
confronted by a solidified proletariat.
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The proletariat were the losers in the
process of two world wars and the Great
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Depression and we had what Polanyi said
was the threat of the annihilation of
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civilization. We all know what happened.
But after the Second World War a new
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embedded phase of his Great Transformation
took place, in which finance was tamed, in
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which social democracy became the dominant
force. Labor based insecurities were
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reduced, inequalities were reduced, and we
had a period in which global trade grew in
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competitive goods, but with similar
standards in the industrialized capitalist
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countries. But there were inherent
contradictions in that embedded phase of
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the Great Transformation. It became
inflationary, it became sluggish. It was
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no golden age. It was no golden age that
prompted 1968, the riots, the revolt
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against the system. It was a period of
drabness in many ways, when full time
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stable jobs were meant to be the Nirvana
but it stultified the human creativities,
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it stultified subversive thinking. It was
a period in which there were many
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improvements, but it had its limitations.
As we all know that Great Transformation
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collapsed in the 1970s and 1980s and
ushered in the disembedded phase of the
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global transformation. The disembedded
phase was dominated by neoliberalism in
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economics, by the emergence of politicians
like Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan
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to put those neoliberal ideas into
practice. It was dominated by the
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emergence of US dominated financial
institutions like Goldman Sachs that
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became great umbrellas around the world,
and it ushered in to a new technological
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revolution that you're all dealing with
today. For my story, the most important
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aspect of the early phase of that
technological revolution was that it made
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the relocation of production and
employment much easier, so that the
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relocation depended on relative costs. And
it strengthened the power of capital over
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labor. So we see around the world in EVERY
country a shift in which more and more of
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the income goes to capital and less and
less goes to labor. It's a phenomenon that
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spread around the world. And the
technological revolution also meant that
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capital mobility increased dramatically
and we have some other interesting
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developments which I come to in a moment.
But inequalities have increased,
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insecurities have become vastly greater in
every part of the world. We have a new
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gilded age at the top and at the bottom,
and that gilded age has gone with a new
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Kondratiev long wave of technological
revolution, which has helped in the
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relocation again of the geopolitical POWER
that is so important today. We have, now,
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moved away from the neoliberal era of the
1980s and 1990s and a pivotal event came
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in 1994, when the passage of TRIPS by the
World Trade Organization—TRIPS: Trade-
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Related Aspects of Intellectual Property.
What this did is globalize the American
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system of intellectual property rights,
with patents, with copyright, with brands,
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with all of the adages that go with that
system. So now we have a system in which
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about a quarter of the world's
GDP—national income—is attributable to
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intellectual property rights. Some of you
benefit from patents and other copyrights
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rights and so on, but it's a system that
has entrenched powerful big corporations.
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So we have big pharma, we have big finance
and above all, we have big tech. The big
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tech are rentiers taking more and more
from the world's income pile. And in
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effect we have rentier capitalism today,
not a free market. This is the most UNfree
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market system ever created in history.
Where more and more of the income is going
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to the owners of property. Physical
property, financial property, and
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intellectual property. We've had a
breakdown of the income distribution
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system of the 20th century, it's broken.
Wages have been stagnating in all
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industrialized countries for three
decades. Three decades! They are lower in
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the United States in real wage terms than
they were in the 1980s. The implications
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are dramatic and above all we've got a new
global class structure that has taken
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shape. The class structure has a
plutocracy at the top. It's not the top
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1%, it's the top ZERO point one percent of
multibillionaires striding the globe as
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global citizens, taking more and more
rental income. Take someone like Jeff
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Bezos. His income has grown by four
hundred million dollars per WEEK this
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year. This is obscenity, multiplied. This
plutocracy of course now have a
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representative in the White House, as
their spokesperson. We have other
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plutocrats manipulating our politics,
manipulating our technology, manipulating
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our commons. These are the realities.
Beneath the plutocracy is an elite who are
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the servants of the plutocrats, who are
making many millions of dollars, euros,
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pounds or whatever and are servants. We
don't have to feel sorry for them either.
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Below them is the salariat. When I was a
student, we were told and we were taught
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and we believed that by the end of the
20th century the vast majority of us would
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be part of the salariat with stable
salaried employment, with pensions to look
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forward to, paid holidays, paid medical
leave, paid this, paid that, paid the
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rest. The only problem is that the
salariat has been shrinking everywhere in
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the world. It won't disappear, but today
many in the salariat worry about their
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daughters and their sons because they're
not going into the salariat. Below the
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salariat, just, is what a group I call in
the books the proficians, a combination of
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professionals and technicians. Many in
this hall this morning are part of the
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proficians. But be careful: these people
don't want full time stable jobs. They
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don't want to be saying "yes", "no" to a
boss. They're making good money, they're
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rushing around with their laptops or what
ever over their shoulders. They're making
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a lot of money. They're making a lot of
money and they are tending to be
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complacent. But they should worry about
burn out. They should worry about mental
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illness at age 28 and a half, or
thereabouts. The proficians are helping in
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identifying the technological and
political options for the future, they
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have a responsibility. But they must not
lose that responsibility in an egotistic
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narcissistic pursuit, a private gain. It's
a difficult balancing act. But they have a
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responsibility because they have the
skills, they have the knowledge, and they
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know what's going on. Beneath these
groups: the old proletariat, disappearing
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everywhere. They were the ones that
established social democracy, the trade
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unions, collective bargaining, tripartism,
all the institutions of the International
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Labor Organization. But today they are
shrinking everywhere, and along with them
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their political representatives are
effectively dead men walking. They are not
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the future. They did many good things in
the 20th century. I do not wish to
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disparage them in any way, but they are
not the future. Beneath the precariat in
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terms of income is the precariat, beneath
the proletariat is the precariat. The
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precariat can be defined in three
dimensions. The first dimension is that if
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you're in a precariat you are being told
and you are being habituated to accept a
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life of unstable labour and insecure work.
You don't have an occupational narrative
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to give to your life, an occupational
identity. "I am something." You worry that
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tomorrow morning you'll have to be
something else. You also have to do a lot
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of work for labour, work that is not
recognised, not remunerated, not in our
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statistics, but you know you have to do
it, otherwise you will pay a price. And in
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being in the precariat you don't know the
optimum use of your time. Should I spend a
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little more time networking, doing this,
retraining, going to a conference, doing
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this, doing that. Looking after my baby,
paying the rent. And therefore you suffer
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from what I've called the precariatised
mind. The precariatised mind, when you're
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stressed, you're anxious all the time. You
put a good face on it, but every now and
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then you see your friends collapsing in
one way or the other. That's how it feels
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for many people. Every day I receive
emails from various people from various
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places who don't know me who want to
explain their experience. Sometimes I get
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very angry, sometimes I feel like crying.
But the pain out there is part of the
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process of liberation as well. It's not
just a victimhood, it's about people
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trying to make sense. Of a life of
insecurity. And another feature is that
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people in the precariat tend to have a
level of agitation that is above the level
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of labor they can expect to obtain. The
second dimension of the precariat is that
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people in it have distinctive relations of
distribution. What that means is they have
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to rely very largely on money wages, money
payments. They don't get access to the
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prospect of pensions or paid holidays or
paid medical leave or subsidised this or
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subsidised that, they have to live on
wages. The only problem is that the value
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of those wages is tending to go down and
the volatility of their income is growing.
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So basically the second aspect of this
distributional question is that most
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people in the precariat are living on the
level of unsustainable debt. One mistake,
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one illness, one bad decision and you
could be tipped out into the lumpen-
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precariat, outside society, without a
voice. And of course at the same time the
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state has been changing its social
security and social protection system
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towards more targeting on the poor. So
it's reduced the social solidarity of the
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social protection system, and this hits
the precariat in a very big way. Because
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state benefits, welfare benefits, have
been shrinking and they've been means-
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tested and behaviour-tested, drifting to
Hartz 4 or the equivalent in other
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countries, where you're expected to
behave as the state tells you to behave.
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Not enough people realise what is
happening down at that end of the labour
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market, the indignities that go with it.
The shame, the stigma, the poverty traps.
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Whereby if you do get a benefit and you
then have the offer of a low wage job,
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you're losing as much in benefits as you
get from the low wage job. You're facing a
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marginal tax rate of 80% in Germany, 86%
in Denmark, 80% in Britain. If the middle
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classes had to accept such marginal tax
rates there would be riots in the street.
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But that is what society expects of the
precariat. It's NOT funny. And in
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addition, and what I think is most
importantly about the precariat: it has
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distinctive relations to the state, the
institutions of society and governance.
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The precariat is losing the rights of
citizenship often without realising it,
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they're losing cultural rights because
they cannot belong to organizations that
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represent their cultural identity or
aspirations. They're losing civil rights
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because they cannot get access to due
process and legal justice. They're losing
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social rights because they don't have
access to rights-based benefits and
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services. They're losing economic rights
because they cannot practice what they are
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perfectly qualified to do. And above all
they're losing political rights because
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they don't see out there politicians or
political parties that represent what they
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are and what they want to be. Now in that
context I've described the precariat today
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in an old Marxian term: it's a class in
the making. Not yet a class for itself.
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And what I mean by that is that while
millions of people share the objective
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characteristics of being in the precariat,
they have different consciousness of what
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it is. And you can divide the precariat
into three groups. The first I call the
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atavists. These are those who do not have
a lot of education, but their parents and
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their families and communities used to be
in the proletariat, used to have working
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class backgrounds of being dockers or
steelworkers or car workers or whatever.
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This group is relating their deprivation
of today to a lost Yesterday, real or
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imagined. That lost Yesterday they want
back. It's this group that supports the
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Donald Trumps. It's this group that
supported Brexit in Britain. It's this
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group that supports the Marine Le Pen's,
the Orbans and the equivalent in Germany
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and elsewhere. This group supported the
Liga in Italy. You can name right wing
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populist groups. There's good news and bad
news. The bad news here is that they are
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proving to be profoundly strong. We risk
today that that group could lead us into a
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new dark political future, characterized
by demonizing migrants and minorities,
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authoritarian tendencies, destructive,
vile outcomes. But there's good news. In
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my view, they have reached their peak in
terms of size. Many are getting older of
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that type, and they will not lead the
other two groups in the same direction.
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The second group in the precariat are what
I call the Nostalgics. These are made up
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with the migrants, the minorities, the
disabled, people who feel they have no
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sense of home. They don't have a home
there, they don't have a home here, but
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they dream of a home. This group knows
it's losing rights, it's being demonized,
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it's being victimized. But they will not
support a neofascist populism. They keep
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their heads down because they have to
survive. Every now and then, there are
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days of rage when everything gets too
much, but this group is LOOKING for a
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home. It's LOOKING for a future. Its
relative deprivation is: it's got a lost
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now. The first group a lost past, the
second group a lost now. The third group
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in the precariat are what I call the
progressives. These are the millions of
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people who went to college, went to
university and were told by their parents
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and by their teachers: go to university
and you will get a future! A future! A
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career, status, influence, dignity. And
they come out of university and college
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knowing they don't have that future. All
they have are debts, disillusions, and
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difficulties. This group is entering the
precariat. It will not support neofascist
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populism, it is looking for a future. It
is looking for a new politics of paradise.
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There are many people at this conference I
believe are in this third part. The bad
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news is they've been dismissing politics
because they know very wisely that it's
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being cynically manipulated by the
plutocrats and by others, and therefore
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they have detached themselves from
politics. The trouble with that is that it
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surrenders the ground to the others with a
regressive, antidemocratic, anti-
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enlightenment perspective. But the good
news is this: since the crisis of 2008 and
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particularly since the Occupy movement and
the Arab Spring in 2011 and the Indignado
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movement, more of this third part of the
precariat are reengaging with politics.
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They're reengaging in different ways,
beginning to forge an agenda for that
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future. And I believe that if you take a
historical perspective, then I only wish I
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were 21. I would love to be 21 because if
you are 21, you have a vacuum, you have an
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opportunity to forge a fundamentally
enlightenment-led future. Let me give you
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by way of conclusion a few thoughts on
what that might be. The thoughts are
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these: today are income distribution
system is broken. We can't put yesterday
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back. Therefore we have to build a new
income distribution system. We will not
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get anywhere by trying to raise wages. But
we WILL get somewhere if we decide that
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what society has to do is recycle the rent
from the technocrats, the financiers and
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the property owners to the commons, to the
commoners. We must build that distribution
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system by returning to the values of the
enlightenment, of egalité, liberté,
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fraternité or solidarité. And to do that,
I strongly believe that one part of this
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new income distribution system should be a
basic income that everybody has as a
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right.
applause
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I have had the privilege of working for
this for thirty years since before BIEN.
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Anybody can join BIEN, we have many
Germans who are part of it. We have
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thousands and thousands of people who are
members. For many years we were regarded
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as crazy, mad, bad and dangerous, but
suddenly in the last few years we've
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suddenly become respectable, at least
tolerated. I've had the privilege of
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designing and conducting basic income
pilots in four continents, the biggest
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being in India. Anybody who's interested:
I've written a book, "Basic income: and
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how we can make it happen". But let me
just tell you what happened in India, a
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country that's poor, a country that
poverty is terrifying. And when we decided
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we would do it, and we mobilized money, we
provided 6000 people, men, women and
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children, with basic income. Sonia Gandhi
told us, herself, she said you're wasting
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the money, they're wasted on drink and
drugs. Two years later, after we had done
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the pilot and seen what had happened, she
called us back to our house and she said
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she wished she had known. What happened
was that when they started receiving the
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basic income they did what all of us in
this room would do. They started giving
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their children better food, so nutrition
improved, health of the children improved,
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schooling improved, health and nutrition
of others, adults, improved. People with
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disabilities suddenly had a basic income
with which they could be citizens. Womens'
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status improved, sanitation in the
villages improved. Work increased,
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production increased. If you go to those
villages today, you would have seen a
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transformation. Now that happened in a
poor place. We also did it in Africa,
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where very similar results were showing.
We've now got pilots in Canada and some
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hopefully launched soon in Scotland, and
the opposition leadership in Britain has
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asked me to prepare a plan for doing it in
Britain. If you had told me 10 years ago
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that any of those things would have
happened, I would have said I must have
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had something to smoke or drink, because I
must be hallucinating. But change can come
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quicker than we think. It is up to US. I
want to tell you one story. I still have a
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few minutes, I hope, I thought... is
that... what's that figure? I don't know,
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but I'm going to tell the story. When we
were launching the pilot in India, we went
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to one village and all the young women had
veils. And we had to have their photo
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taken for the cards, so that they could
get their monthly basic income, and we had
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to persuade them to go into a hut with
other women to have their photos taken. 9
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or 10 months later I went back to that
particular village and I said to one of my
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Indian colleagues, I said, "Have you
noticed a difference here?" He said, "No,
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no." I said, "What difference?" He said,
"Nothing, perhaps better sanitation."
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"No," I said, "None of the women are
wearing veils." He said: "Yeah!". So we
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called some of the women across and we
said, "Look, excuse us, but you wore
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veils, you're not wearing veils now. Why?"
They were shy. They didn't want to speak
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to a foreigner and so on. But after a
while one of the young women spoke up and
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she said, "You know, before we had to do
what the elders told us to do. Now we have
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a basic income, we can do
what we want to do.
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applause
Standing: And there is an e– there is an
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even more poignant story in our Namibian
pilot. At the end of that one I went to
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one of the villages and I asked some young
women. I said, "What was the best thing
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about having a basic income, what was the
best thing?" They talked to each other,
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giggled, you know, again, talking to a
foreigner and so on. And then one of the
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young women said, "You know, before, when
the men came down from the fields at the
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end of the month, with their wages in
their pockets, we had to say: 'Yes'. Now
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we have our basic income. We say 'No'."
That's emancipation. And if you can put an
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analogy in Germany or Britain or anywhere
else, you will find that this ability to
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say 'No' to exploitation and oppression is
a fundamental part about a progressive
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agenda for the 21st century. We have to
find a way of liberating people to say
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'No' and also to say 'Yes', to say 'Yes'
to the ability to help people to do
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things, to care, to participate in the
ecological aspects of life. And I think it
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will help in both respects. In that
context, let me conclude by saying: a
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basic income is not a panacea. It must be
part of a new system. We need new forms of
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voice. We need new forms of work. We need
to realize today the new technologies are
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00:39:03,299 --> 00:39:14,350
potentially liberating us to escape from
labour, so that we can do more work. Most
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languages distinguishes the difference but
only in the 20th century were we stupid
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enough to think only labour counts as
work. I have never worked harder than
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since I stopped doing labour, since I
stopped having a job.
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applause
Standing: And what we have to do, what we
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have to do, is convince the politicians
and the social scientists that they should
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change their thinking about what is work
and what is not work. Every feminist—and
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we should all be feminists—every feminist
should be demanding that they change their
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concepts, because it means that most of
the work women do doesn't count as work.
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It's ridiculous, it's sexist,
it's arbitrary.
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applause
For me, this has given a new dimension
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because of the growth of the precariat,
because if you're in the precariat you
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know you have to do a lot of work. A lot
of work. And you're treated as if you're
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being lazy. But there's another wonderful
opportunity here. We all know or should
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know that we are threatened by extinction.
Extinction that comes from the greenhouse
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gas emissions, the pollution, the erosion
of the commons, the privatization of our
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spaces, our loss of nature, our loss of an
ecological landscape. We know that. It's
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00:41:17,529 --> 00:41:23,229
the number one crisis charging towards us.
We didn't need the panel of climate change
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to tell us that, but we know it. And what
are we doing? We've just seen in Poland,
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hardly anything. We need big carbon taxes.
Big carbon taxes.
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applause
But there are two problems. There are two
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problems. First, taxes are unpopular. And
second, if you just put a carbon tax, it
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would worsen inequality. Because the poor
person pays proportionately more than the
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rich person. Therefore we need to combine
carbon taxes with carbon dividends. So
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that the proceeds of carbon taxes are
recycled. I think most of you can work it
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out where I'm ending this discussion.
Recycled as basic incomes. The carbon tax
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can pay for a large part of a basic income
future, and therefore this perspective
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leads to you thinking: we can advance the
cause of ecological survival, advance the
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cause of security, advance the cause of
emancipation and do what every
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transformative class should do. The
precariat is a transformative class
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00:43:01,279 --> 00:43:09,710
because it wants, intuitively, to abolish
the conditions that define its existence.
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And therefore—abolish itself. We can do
it. Thank you very much.
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applause
Herald: Thanks very much. They say on
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Congress every time, every year we have a
system that we don't want to use anymore,
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I think it's capitalism.
laughter
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00:43:50,050 --> 00:43:55,039
applause
Herald: We're going to hold a Q&A
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including your questions from the
Internet. There are six microphones
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scattered around the room, so if anybody
wants to ask a question in public, we'll
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start this now. And we'll start with mic
six over there.
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Question: Brilliant. So...
Standing: Where is mike six?
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Q: Here.
Herald: Mike six is over there.
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Standing: OK. Hello. So
Q: Hi, I was wondering... you mentioned
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basic income and you connected it with
carbon taxes. I was wondering what other
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strategies you're thinking towards
tackling other systemic issues we have,
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especially in regards to land, which to
me– you mentioned different types of
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property. But the thing that land today is
the proxy to access to all the other
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values. So...
Standing: Shall I answer that one?
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Herald: Yes.
Standing: Okay, thank you very much. I've
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00:45:06,979 --> 00:45:12,039
got a new book coming out to make me more
boring. It's called "Plunder of the
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00:45:12,039 --> 00:45:19,609
Commons". And basically, what you've
touched on is the theme of this book. If
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you think of the commons, the natural
commons, the social commons, the civil
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commons, all our commons including land,
water, the air, our amenities and so on.
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We've allowed the privatization and
colonization of the commons to take profit
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from our commons, and therefore we need a
system of levies to say: Hey, we want the
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rental income back for the commoners, and
that includes land. That's why I strongly
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favor a Land Value Tax. A Land Value Tax
is a very efficient tax and it has to be
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part of building this commons fund along
the Alaska Permanent Fund. Principles of
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00:46:10,670 --> 00:46:15,680
those... you're all familiar with that. We
also need it for water, for air, for
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digital information. I don't believe
taxing robots, as Bill Gates proposes, is
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the answer. What I do believe is we should
put a levy on all the information that
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Amazon and Facebook and the others are
taking from us free and making billions.
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We should have a levy on that,
applause
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Standing: ... and the levy the levy should
go to everybody equally. Because you
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cannot attribute the profits they're
making to any individual. We have to give
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it to everybody. And if we do that we are
all the time building the fund that can
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help pay out towards a decent basic
income. So that's my answer to your
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question.
Herald: Thanks very much. Mic four.
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Q: Hi, thank you for being here. Great
pleasure. Just recently, Sahra Wagenknecht
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was invited in a talkshow about basic
income and future of work. She's the
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leader of the German party The Left, "Die
Linke". She said that she don't like the
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idea of basic income. Her two arguments
are she don't like it. Regarding merchant
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neoliberal powers, they also like the idea
of basic income. For example the CEO of
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Volkswagen and other big players and
second, she said if you move to a basic
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income, we will lose a lot of—we, as
society—will lose a lot of protection and
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social benefits. What would be your
reaction on her opinion?
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Standing: I address this question in my
basic income book in the following way:
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every new idea in history, in social
policy in particular, has been greeted, at
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the time, by people saying it will
threaten something else and that it will
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lead to unintended negative consequences.
They said this about unemployment
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benefits. They said it about family
benefits. And then, when it's introduced,
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suddenly the objections go away. To me, I
asked myself the following question: Do I
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want that person, or that person, or the
person I meet in the street... do I want
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that person to have the basic security of
being able to pay for food, to pay for
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their rent, and to buy decent clothes? Do
I want that? And I say very easily to
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00:49:17,950 --> 00:49:25,349
myself: yes! I want that! Don't tell me
that it's going to be a threat to
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something else if that person has basic
security! Why is it, that so many social
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democrats make this argument? I've
confronted many, including one major trade
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00:49:41,579 --> 00:49:47,250
union leader. I said, "why are you so
hostile to having people base– have basic
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income? Why?" And the man who was chairing
the session when I was talking, he said,
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"I think we'll have a coffee break now"
before anybody could answer and when we
381
00:50:02,540 --> 00:50:08,740
came back he said "Well now we'll move on
to the next session" and the trade union
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leader at the back stood up and he said
"No, I think we should answer the
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question". And he said "you know I think
the answer is, that if people had basic
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security, they wouldn't be dependent on
us. They wouldn't join trade unions" and I
385
00:50:33,690 --> 00:50:36,309
looked at him.
applause
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I looked at him and I said "just imagine
the morality of what you've just said. The
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morality is, you want people to be fearful
and insecure, because you want to gain." I
388
00:50:51,369 --> 00:50:57,519
said "But you're also wrong. Because
you're wrong in the following respect:
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people who are insecure and frightened
don't engage in politics they don't engage
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in society. They've got too many things to
worry about. If they have basic security,
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they're more likely to stand up and fight
for rights, more likely to stand up and
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fight for the ecology, more likely to be
good citizens. Why don't you trust people
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more? Why are you so bureaucratic and
distrustful? Believe it. We need a new
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00:51:34,339 --> 00:51:40,940
distribution system. And don't tell me
neo-liberalism is going to destroy it.
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They're destroying what we've got anyhow.
We can do better than that and if you
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deny, you—people who say this not you, but
people who say that—you are denying the
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00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:59,069
enlightenment freedoms that we should be
fighting for! So I say, stop being so
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negative, to those people. Sorry. I was a
bit angry but apologized.
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applause
Herald: laughs you've got all reason to.
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A question from the Internet.
Internet: There was a popular vote in
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Switzerland on basic income and it was
massively rejected. How do you analyse
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00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:23,919
that, what should be the way forward, and
how can we inaudible against the
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00:52:23,919 --> 00:52:30,409
globalists who oppose basic income?
Standing: I ... again address that
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00:52:30,409 --> 00:52:37,519
particular referendum. I participated in
the referendum. We had no money. We
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00:52:37,519 --> 00:52:42,440
mobilized a hundred twenty five thousand
signatures, literally going in the
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00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:47,729
streets. All the banks were putting up
money. The main political parties were
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00:52:47,729 --> 00:52:54,479
opposed, etc. But we were doing
fantastically well. We got up to about 40
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percent opinion poll support applause
and then one of our leaders, one of our
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00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:07,769
leaders without permission from any of us,
went on television and an interviewer
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00:53:07,769 --> 00:53:14,089
asked him, he said "Well how much do you
think the basic income should be?" and the
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00:53:14,089 --> 00:53:19,300
man, instead of saying it's up to
parliament and everything, which is what
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00:53:19,300 --> 00:53:25,530
the referendum said, he said it should be
two thousand five hundred Swiss francs per
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month. Which, for your information, is
considerably higher than all the rural
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00:53:33,650 --> 00:53:41,949
areas, the rural cantons, in Switzerland.
At that moment we lost the referendum. We
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00:53:41,949 --> 00:53:49,410
lost. I'm proud of the fact that in Geneva
we got 38 percent. And that was where I
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00:53:49,410 --> 00:53:53,359
was campaigning—it had nothing to do with
me, but the fact was that they had more
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00:53:53,359 --> 00:53:59,080
meetings and more people could understand
what the politics were. But the greatest
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00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:05,099
thing about that referendum is that today
people in Switzerland in the auberges, the
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00:54:05,099 --> 00:54:14,049
cafes, they're talking about basic income,
they know what it means. I gave a talk
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00:54:14,049 --> 00:54:21,810
recently in a big theater in Geneva. There
were hundreds and hundreds of people. Many
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00:54:21,810 --> 00:54:27,130
of those had not participated. If there is
another referendum I think it will
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00:54:27,130 --> 00:54:36,150
succeed. Switzerland has a history of even
very mild ideas losing in the first
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00:54:36,150 --> 00:54:41,489
referendum and then a few years later a
second referendum, they pass. So I'm
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00:54:41,489 --> 00:54:50,500
actually optimistic that it will come in
Switzerland—but not 2500.
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Herald: Thank you. Mic six again.
Mic 6: I think a lot of the ideas you
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00:54:56,599 --> 00:55:03,010
presented here are, like, respected in the
community and the Congress. But how can we
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00:55:03,010 --> 00:55:09,179
change the society? How can we change the
mind of all the other people to also
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00:55:09,179 --> 00:55:16,340
considers these ideas to transform to a
new society?
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00:55:16,340 --> 00:55:25,279
Standing: I think this is the biggest
question you could ask. I strongly believe
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00:55:25,279 --> 00:55:36,599
that it's up to us. It really is up to us.
Politicians have spaghetti in backbones.
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00:55:36,599 --> 00:55:44,839
Our job is to strengthen the spaghetti.
Our job is to desplain why dreaming of the
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00:55:44,839 --> 00:55:54,559
impossible leads to it becoming possible,
and then happening. I believe that we have
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00:55:54,559 --> 00:56:04,059
to be taking part in any small way we can.
I will tell you a secret. Yesterday a very
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00:56:04,059 --> 00:56:10,690
good friend of mine, an economist, very
well-known economist. He contacted me and
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00:56:10,690 --> 00:56:16,040
we were talking and he said : "Guy, why
are you wasting your time going to
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00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:24,349
Leipzig? On December the 27th, when you
should be having relaxation with
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00:56:24,349 --> 00:56:36,779
Christmas?" and I said "John, that's not
it. I hope that just one person, just one,
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00:56:36,779 --> 00:56:45,519
will leave this room, with more energy and
with more thought than when I started.
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00:56:45,519 --> 00:56:53,190
Just one." That would be worth coming to
Leipzig. I feel energized. I hope somebody
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00:56:53,190 --> 00:56:58,789
here feels energized. We have to realise
that it is up to us. We have no excuse for
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00:56:58,789 --> 00:57:08,660
cynicism. We have to challenge the Trumps.
We can't let them win. For our children
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00:57:08,660 --> 00:57:21,329
and grandchildren, we can't let them win.
applause
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00:57:21,329 --> 00:57:25,710
Herald: Thank you very much. I think
you'll be around for more questions. We're
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00:57:25,710 --> 00:57:31,999
out of time, sorry, but you can ask those
questions directly and I think they will
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00:57:31,999 --> 00:57:36,145
be answered in great length.
Standing: Thank you.
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00:57:36,145 --> 00:57:41,384
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