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35c3 preroll music
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Herald Angel: Our next speaker speaks[br]British English. He writes books and he's
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going to talk about those books. He's an[br]economist and member of the Basic Income
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Earth Network which has its 18th[br]conference... had its 18th conference this
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year. It's from 1986, 32 years going[br]strong. Allow me to introduce Guy
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Standing, talking about "The Precariat: A[br]Disruptive Class for Disruptive Times".
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applause
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Guy Standing: In a book that I wrote in[br]2011 on page 1, I said that unless the
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insecurities and the fears and the[br]aspirations of the precariat were
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addressed as a matter of urgency, we would[br]see the emergence of a political monster.
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You will not be surprised that in November[br]2016 I received a lot of emails from
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around the world from people who said:[br]"the monster has arrived". Today,
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ironically, he is in Germany, inspecting[br]his troops. Maybe a lot of Americans would
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like him to stay in Germany, but I would[br]not. What I'm going to talk about today is
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something that has involved me in[br]something I never expected in my life, an
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adventure, because since that book was[br]published it's been translated into 24
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languages and taken me around the world to[br]speak in over 500 places and about 40
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countries. And the reason for that is not[br]the book, but the fact is that the global
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precariat is growing in every part of the[br]world. And I want to talk about some of
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the background of this disruptive class[br]that is taking shape, because I think it
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has a resonance with this conference and[br]similar events taking place. Because as
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someone like myself—I'm an economist—as I[br]was walking around here this morning, I
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thought: this is the future. You are the[br]future—if, IF we are to have a future.
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It's up to YOU to define that future. And[br]I mean it very seriously. We are in the
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midst of a global transformation. Those of[br]you who are political scientists or know
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political science will understand. Karl[br]Polanyi wrote a great book in 1944 called
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"The Great Transformation" and his book[br]was fundamentally about what took place in
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the 19th century and the early part of the[br]20th century. He described the mid-19th-
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century until the Second World War as "the[br]disembedded phase of the Great
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Transformation". It was dominated[br]initially by financial capital, by
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laissez-faire economics and by a[br]technological revolution that was taking
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place at the time. It took place in which[br]the dominant groups were around finance
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and monopolies and imperialism. But what[br]happened in that disembodied phase was
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that insecurities multiplied, inequalities[br]worsened, wealth inequality grew more than
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income inequality. And in the process we[br]had the emergence of a new class
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structure, in which the bourgeoisie was[br]confronted by a solidified proletariat.
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The proletariat were the losers in the[br]process of two world wars and the Great
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Depression and we had what Polanyi said[br]was the threat of the annihilation of
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civilization. We all know what happened.[br]But after the Second World War a new
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embedded phase of his Great Transformation[br]took place, in which finance was tamed, in
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which social democracy became the dominant[br]force. Labor based insecurities were
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reduced, inequalities were reduced, and we[br]had a period in which global trade grew in
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competitive goods, but with similar[br]standards in the industrialized capitalist
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countries. But there were inherent[br]contradictions in that embedded phase of
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the Great Transformation. It became[br]inflationary, it became sluggish. It was
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no golden age. It was no golden age that[br]prompted 1968, the riots, the revolt
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against the system. It was a period of[br]drabness in many ways, when full time
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stable jobs were meant to be the Nirvana[br]but it stultified the human creativities,
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it stultified subversive thinking. It was[br]a period in which there were many
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improvements, but it had its limitations.[br]As we all know that Great Transformation
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collapsed in the 1970s and 1980s and[br]ushered in the disembedded phase of the
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global transformation. The disembedded[br]phase was dominated by neoliberalism in
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economics, by the emergence of politicians[br]like Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan
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to put those neoliberal ideas into[br]practice. It was dominated by the
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emergence of US dominated financial[br]institutions like Goldman Sachs that
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became great umbrellas around the world,[br]and it ushered in to a new technological
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revolution that you're all dealing with[br]today. For my story, the most important
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aspect of the early phase of that[br]technological revolution was that it made
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the relocation of production and[br]employment much easier, so that the
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relocation depended on relative costs. And[br]it strengthened the power of capital over
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labor. So we see around the world in EVERY[br]country a shift in which more and more of
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the income goes to capital and less and[br]less goes to labor. It's a phenomenon that
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spread around the world. And the[br]technological revolution also meant that
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capital mobility increased dramatically[br]and we have some other interesting
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developments which I come to in a moment.[br]But inequalities have increased,
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insecurities have become vastly greater in[br]every part of the world. We have a new
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gilded age at the top and at the bottom,[br]and that gilded age has gone with a new
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Kondratiev long wave of technological[br]revolution, which has helped in the
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relocation again of the geopolitical POWER[br]that is so important today. We have, now,
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moved away from the neoliberal era of the[br]1980s and 1990s and a pivotal event came
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in 1994, when the passage of TRIPS by the[br]World Trade Organization—TRIPS: Trade-
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Related Aspects of Intellectual Property.[br]What this did is globalize the American
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system of intellectual property rights,[br]with patents, with copyright, with brands,
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with all of the adages that go with that[br]system. So now we have a system in which
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about a quarter of the world's[br]GDP—national income—is attributable to
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intellectual property rights. Some of you[br]benefit from patents and other copyrights
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rights and so on, but it's a system that[br]has entrenched powerful big corporations.
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So we have big pharma, we have big finance[br]and above all, we have big tech. The big
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tech are rentiers taking more and more[br]from the world's income pile. And in
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effect we have rentier capitalism today,[br]not a free market. This is the most UNfree
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market system ever created in history.[br]Where more and more of the income is going
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to the owners of property. Physical[br]property, financial property, and
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intellectual property. We've had a[br]breakdown of the income distribution
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system of the 20th century, it's broken.[br]Wages have been stagnating in all
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industrialized countries for three[br]decades. Three decades! They are lower in
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the United States in real wage terms than[br]they were in the 1980s. The implications
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are dramatic and above all we've got a new[br]global class structure that has taken
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shape. The class structure has a[br]plutocracy at the top. It's not the top
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1%, it's the top ZERO point one percent of[br]multibillionaires striding the globe as
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global citizens, taking more and more[br]rental income. Take someone like Jeff
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Bezos. His income has grown by four[br]hundred million dollars per WEEK this
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year. This is obscenity, multiplied. This[br]plutocracy of course now have a
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representative in the White House, as[br]their spokesperson. We have other
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plutocrats manipulating our politics,[br]manipulating our technology, manipulating
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our commons. These are the realities.[br]Beneath the plutocracy is an elite who are
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the servants of the plutocrats, who are[br]making many millions of dollars, euros,
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pounds or whatever and are servants. We[br]don't have to feel sorry for them either.
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Below them is the salariat. When I was a[br]student, we were told and we were taught
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and we believed that by the end of the[br]20th century the vast majority of us would
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be part of the salariat with stable[br]salaried employment, with pensions to look
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forward to, paid holidays, paid medical[br]leave, paid this, paid that, paid the
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rest. The only problem is that the[br]salariat has been shrinking everywhere in
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the world. It won't disappear, but today[br]many in the salariat worry about their
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daughters and their sons because they're[br]not going into the salariat. Below the
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salariat, just, is what a group I call in[br]the books the proficians, a combination of
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professionals and technicians. Many in[br]this hall this morning are part of the
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proficians. But be careful: these people[br]don't want full time stable jobs. They
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don't want to be saying "yes", "no" to a[br]boss. They're making good money, they're
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rushing around with their laptops or what[br]ever over their shoulders. They're making
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a lot of money. They're making a lot of[br]money and they are tending to be
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complacent. But they should worry about[br]burn out. They should worry about mental
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illness at age 28 and a half, or[br]thereabouts. The proficians are helping in
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identifying the technological and[br]political options for the future, they
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have a responsibility. But they must not[br]lose that responsibility in an egotistic
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narcissistic pursuit, a private gain. It's[br]a difficult balancing act. But they have a
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responsibility because they have the[br]skills, they have the knowledge, and they
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know what's going on. Beneath these[br]groups: the old proletariat, disappearing
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everywhere. They were the ones that[br]established social democracy, the trade
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unions, collective bargaining, tripartism,[br]all the institutions of the International
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Labor Organization. But today they are[br]shrinking everywhere, and along with them
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their political representatives are[br]effectively dead men walking. They are not
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the future. They did many good things in[br]the 20th century. I do not wish to
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disparage them in any way, but they are[br]not the future. Beneath the precariat in
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terms of income is the precariat, beneath[br]the proletariat is the precariat. The
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precariat can be defined in three[br]dimensions. The first dimension is that if
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you're in a precariat you are being told[br]and you are being habituated to accept a
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life of unstable labour and insecure work.[br]You don't have an occupational narrative
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to give to your life, an occupational[br]identity. "I am something." You worry that
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tomorrow morning you'll have to be[br]something else. You also have to do a lot
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of work for labour, work that is not[br]recognised, not remunerated, not in our
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statistics, but you know you have to do[br]it, otherwise you will pay a price. And in
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being in the precariat you don't know the[br]optimum use of your time. Should I spend a
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little more time networking, doing this,[br]retraining, going to a conference, doing
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this, doing that. Looking after my baby,[br]paying the rent. And therefore you suffer
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from what I've called the precariatised[br]mind. The precariatised mind, when you're
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stressed, you're anxious all the time. You[br]put a good face on it, but every now and
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then you see your friends collapsing in[br]one way or the other. That's how it feels
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for many people. Every day I receive[br]emails from various people from various
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places who don't know me who want to[br]explain their experience. Sometimes I get
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very angry, sometimes I feel like crying.[br]But the pain out there is part of the
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process of liberation as well. It's not[br]just a victimhood, it's about people
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trying to make sense. Of a life of[br]insecurity. And another feature is that
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people in the precariat tend to have a[br]level of agitation that is above the level
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of labor they can expect to obtain. The[br]second dimension of the precariat is that
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people in it have distinctive relations of[br]distribution. What that means is they have
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to rely very largely on money wages, money[br]payments. They don't get access to the
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prospect of pensions or paid holidays or[br]paid medical leave or subsidised this or
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subsidised that, they have to live on[br]wages. The only problem is that the value
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of those wages is tending to go down and[br]the volatility of their income is growing.
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So basically the second aspect of this[br]distributional question is that most
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people in the precariat are living on the[br]level of unsustainable debt. One mistake,
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one illness, one bad decision and you[br]could be tipped out into the lumpen-
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precariat, outside society, without a[br]voice. And of course at the same time the
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state has been changing its social[br]security and social protection system
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towards more targeting on the poor. So[br]it's reduced the social solidarity of the
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social protection system, and this hits[br]the precariat in a very big way. Because
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state benefits, welfare benefits, have[br]been shrinking and they've been means-
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tested and behaviour-tested, drifting to[br]Hartz 4 or the equivalent in other
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countries, where you're expected to[br]behave as the state tells you to behave.
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Not enough people realise what is[br]happening down at that end of the labour
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market, the indignities that go with it.[br]The shame, the stigma, the poverty traps.
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Whereby if you do get a benefit and you[br]then have the offer of a low wage job,
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you're losing as much in benefits as you[br]get from the low wage job. You're facing a
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marginal tax rate of 80% in Germany, 86%[br]in Denmark, 80% in Britain. If the middle
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classes had to accept such marginal tax[br]rates there would be riots in the street.
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But that is what society expects of the[br]precariat. It's NOT funny. And in
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addition, and what I think is most[br]importantly about the precariat: it has
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distinctive relations to the state, the[br]institutions of society and governance.
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The precariat is losing the rights of[br]citizenship often without realising it,
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they're losing cultural rights because[br]they cannot belong to organizations that
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represent their cultural identity or[br]aspirations. They're losing civil rights
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because they cannot get access to due[br]process and legal justice. They're losing
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social rights because they don't have[br]access to rights-based benefits and
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services. They're losing economic rights[br]because they cannot practice what they are
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perfectly qualified to do. And above all[br]they're losing political rights because
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they don't see out there politicians or[br]political parties that represent what they
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are and what they want to be. Now in that[br]context I've described the precariat today
0:23:37.060,0:23:49.040
in an old Marxian term: it's a class in[br]the making. Not yet a class for itself.
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And what I mean by that is that while[br]millions of people share the objective
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characteristics of being in the precariat,[br]they have different consciousness of what
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it is. And you can divide the precariat[br]into three groups. The first I call the
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atavists. These are those who do not have[br]a lot of education, but their parents and
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their families and communities used to be[br]in the proletariat, used to have working
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class backgrounds of being dockers or[br]steelworkers or car workers or whatever.
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This group is relating their deprivation[br]of today to a lost Yesterday, real or
0:24:46.800,0:24:56.080
imagined. That lost Yesterday they want[br]back. It's this group that supports the
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Donald Trumps. It's this group that[br]supported Brexit in Britain. It's this
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group that supports the Marine Le Pen's,[br]the Orbans and the equivalent in Germany
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and elsewhere. This group supported the[br]Liga in Italy. You can name right wing
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populist groups. There's good news and bad[br]news. The bad news here is that they are
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proving to be profoundly strong. We risk[br]today that that group could lead us into a
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new dark political future, characterized[br]by demonizing migrants and minorities,
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authoritarian tendencies, destructive,[br]vile outcomes. But there's good news. In
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my view, they have reached their peak in[br]terms of size. Many are getting older of
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that type, and they will not lead the[br]other two groups in the same direction.
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The second group in the precariat are what[br]I call the Nostalgics. These are made up
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with the migrants, the minorities, the[br]disabled, people who feel they have no
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sense of home. They don't have a home[br]there, they don't have a home here, but
0:26:41.550,0:26:49.340
they dream of a home. This group knows[br]it's losing rights, it's being demonized,
0:26:49.340,0:26:56.490
it's being victimized. But they will not[br]support a neofascist populism. They keep
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their heads down because they have to[br]survive. Every now and then, there are
0:27:00.890,0:27:08.020
days of rage when everything gets too[br]much, but this group is LOOKING for a
0:27:08.020,0:27:16.070
home. It's LOOKING for a future. Its[br]relative deprivation is: it's got a lost
0:27:16.070,0:27:23.380
now. The first group a lost past, the[br]second group a lost now. The third group
0:27:23.380,0:27:32.450
in the precariat are what I call the[br]progressives. These are the millions of
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people who went to college, went to[br]university and were told by their parents
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and by their teachers: go to university[br]and you will get a future! A future! A
0:27:46.360,0:27:55.430
career, status, influence, dignity. And[br]they come out of university and college
0:27:55.430,0:28:06.120
knowing they don't have that future. All[br]they have are debts, disillusions, and
0:28:06.120,0:28:13.760
difficulties. This group is entering the[br]precariat. It will not support neofascist
0:28:13.760,0:28:25.320
populism, it is looking for a future. It[br]is looking for a new politics of paradise.
0:28:25.320,0:28:33.580
There are many people at this conference I[br]believe are in this third part. The bad
0:28:33.580,0:28:43.370
news is they've been dismissing politics[br]because they know very wisely that it's
0:28:43.370,0:28:51.430
being cynically manipulated by the[br]plutocrats and by others, and therefore
0:28:51.430,0:28:57.001
they have detached themselves from[br]politics. The trouble with that is that it
0:28:57.001,0:29:05.510
surrenders the ground to the others with a[br]regressive, antidemocratic, anti-
0:29:05.510,0:29:16.440
enlightenment perspective. But the good[br]news is this: since the crisis of 2008 and
0:29:16.440,0:29:23.740
particularly since the Occupy movement and[br]the Arab Spring in 2011 and the Indignado
0:29:23.740,0:29:32.040
movement, more of this third part of the[br]precariat are reengaging with politics.
0:29:32.040,0:29:40.490
They're reengaging in different ways,[br]beginning to forge an agenda for that
0:29:40.490,0:29:51.600
future. And I believe that if you take a[br]historical perspective, then I only wish I
0:29:51.600,0:30:04.480
were 21. I would love to be 21 because if[br]you are 21, you have a vacuum, you have an
0:30:04.480,0:30:14.380
opportunity to forge a fundamentally[br]enlightenment-led future. Let me give you
0:30:14.380,0:30:23.480
by way of conclusion a few thoughts on[br]what that might be. The thoughts are
0:30:23.480,0:30:32.400
these: today are income distribution[br]system is broken. We can't put yesterday
0:30:32.400,0:30:40.270
back. Therefore we have to build a new[br]income distribution system. We will not
0:30:40.270,0:30:47.520
get anywhere by trying to raise wages. But[br]we WILL get somewhere if we decide that
0:30:47.520,0:30:56.920
what society has to do is recycle the rent[br]from the technocrats, the financiers and
0:30:56.920,0:31:07.460
the property owners to the commons, to the[br]commoners. We must build that distribution
0:31:07.460,0:31:17.770
system by returning to the values of the[br]enlightenment, of egalité, liberté,
0:31:17.770,0:31:26.220
fraternité or solidarité. And to do that,[br]I strongly believe that one part of this
0:31:26.220,0:31:33.710
new income distribution system should be a[br]basic income that everybody has as a
0:31:33.710,0:31:44.760
right.[br]applause
0:31:44.760,0:31:52.030
I have had the privilege of working for[br]this for thirty years since before BIEN.
0:31:52.030,0:31:56.920
Anybody can join BIEN, we have many[br]Germans who are part of it. We have
0:31:56.920,0:32:02.860
thousands and thousands of people who are[br]members. For many years we were regarded
0:32:02.860,0:32:10.330
as crazy, mad, bad and dangerous, but[br]suddenly in the last few years we've
0:32:10.330,0:32:20.620
suddenly become respectable, at least[br]tolerated. I've had the privilege of
0:32:20.620,0:32:29.809
designing and conducting basic income[br]pilots in four continents, the biggest
0:32:29.809,0:32:37.080
being in India. Anybody who's interested:[br]I've written a book, "Basic income: and
0:32:37.080,0:32:43.380
how we can make it happen". But let me[br]just tell you what happened in India, a
0:32:43.380,0:32:50.870
country that's poor, a country that[br]poverty is terrifying. And when we decided
0:32:50.870,0:32:56.290
we would do it, and we mobilized money, we[br]provided 6000 people, men, women and
0:32:56.290,0:33:02.940
children, with basic income. Sonia Gandhi[br]told us, herself, she said you're wasting
0:33:02.940,0:33:13.920
the money, they're wasted on drink and[br]drugs. Two years later, after we had done
0:33:13.920,0:33:19.620
the pilot and seen what had happened, she[br]called us back to our house and she said
0:33:19.620,0:33:26.320
she wished she had known. What happened[br]was that when they started receiving the
0:33:26.320,0:33:31.790
basic income they did what all of us in[br]this room would do. They started giving
0:33:31.790,0:33:37.600
their children better food, so nutrition[br]improved, health of the children improved,
0:33:37.600,0:33:44.920
schooling improved, health and nutrition[br]of others, adults, improved. People with
0:33:44.920,0:33:52.910
disabilities suddenly had a basic income[br]with which they could be citizens. Womens'
0:33:52.910,0:34:04.429
status improved, sanitation in the[br]villages improved. Work increased,
0:34:04.429,0:34:11.719
production increased. If you go to those[br]villages today, you would have seen a
0:34:11.719,0:34:21.099
transformation. Now that happened in a[br]poor place. We also did it in Africa,
0:34:21.099,0:34:26.980
where very similar results were showing.[br]We've now got pilots in Canada and some
0:34:26.980,0:34:32.780
hopefully launched soon in Scotland, and[br]the opposition leadership in Britain has
0:34:32.780,0:34:40.179
asked me to prepare a plan for doing it in[br]Britain. If you had told me 10 years ago
0:34:40.179,0:34:46.129
that any of those things would have[br]happened, I would have said I must have
0:34:46.129,0:34:54.710
had something to smoke or drink, because I[br]must be hallucinating. But change can come
0:34:54.710,0:35:05.069
quicker than we think. It is up to US. I[br]want to tell you one story. I still have a
0:35:05.069,0:35:10.910
few minutes, I hope, I thought... is[br]that... what's that figure? I don't know,
0:35:10.910,0:35:20.499
but I'm going to tell the story. When we[br]were launching the pilot in India, we went
0:35:20.499,0:35:29.671
to one village and all the young women had[br]veils. And we had to have their photo
0:35:29.671,0:35:36.490
taken for the cards, so that they could[br]get their monthly basic income, and we had
0:35:36.490,0:35:42.499
to persuade them to go into a hut with[br]other women to have their photos taken. 9
0:35:42.499,0:35:48.009
or 10 months later I went back to that[br]particular village and I said to one of my
0:35:48.009,0:35:55.849
Indian colleagues, I said, "Have you[br]noticed a difference here?" He said, "No,
0:35:55.849,0:36:04.550
no." I said, "What difference?" He said,[br]"Nothing, perhaps better sanitation."
0:36:04.550,0:36:13.039
"No," I said, "None of the women are[br]wearing veils." He said: "Yeah!". So we
0:36:13.039,0:36:18.910
called some of the women across and we[br]said, "Look, excuse us, but you wore
0:36:18.910,0:36:25.910
veils, you're not wearing veils now. Why?"[br]They were shy. They didn't want to speak
0:36:25.910,0:36:30.869
to a foreigner and so on. But after a[br]while one of the young women spoke up and
0:36:30.869,0:36:40.879
she said, "You know, before we had to do[br]what the elders told us to do. Now we have
0:36:40.879,0:36:48.089
a basic income, we can do[br]what we want to do.
0:36:48.089,0:36:57.190
applause[br]Standing: And there is an e– there is an
0:36:57.190,0:37:05.210
even more poignant story in our Namibian[br]pilot. At the end of that one I went to
0:37:05.210,0:37:10.609
one of the villages and I asked some young[br]women. I said, "What was the best thing
0:37:10.609,0:37:18.640
about having a basic income, what was the[br]best thing?" They talked to each other,
0:37:18.640,0:37:25.249
giggled, you know, again, talking to a[br]foreigner and so on. And then one of the
0:37:25.249,0:37:32.880
young women said, "You know, before, when[br]the men came down from the fields at the
0:37:32.880,0:37:45.229
end of the month, with their wages in[br]their pockets, we had to say: 'Yes'. Now
0:37:45.229,0:37:55.400
we have our basic income. We say 'No'."[br]That's emancipation. And if you can put an
0:37:55.400,0:38:01.420
analogy in Germany or Britain or anywhere[br]else, you will find that this ability to
0:38:01.420,0:38:08.109
say 'No' to exploitation and oppression is[br]a fundamental part about a progressive
0:38:08.109,0:38:16.790
agenda for the 21st century. We have to[br]find a way of liberating people to say
0:38:16.790,0:38:25.210
'No' and also to say 'Yes', to say 'Yes'[br]to the ability to help people to do
0:38:25.210,0:38:35.039
things, to care, to participate in the[br]ecological aspects of life. And I think it
0:38:35.039,0:38:47.280
will help in both respects. In that[br]context, let me conclude by saying: a
0:38:47.280,0:38:55.420
basic income is not a panacea. It must be[br]part of a new system. We need new forms of
0:38:55.420,0:39:03.299
voice. We need new forms of work. We need[br]to realize today the new technologies are
0:39:03.299,0:39:14.350
potentially liberating us to escape from[br]labour, so that we can do more work. Most
0:39:14.350,0:39:22.549
languages distinguishes the difference but[br]only in the 20th century were we stupid
0:39:22.549,0:39:34.420
enough to think only labour counts as[br]work. I have never worked harder than
0:39:34.420,0:39:40.609
since I stopped doing labour, since I[br]stopped having a job.
0:39:40.609,0:39:46.819
applause[br]Standing: And what we have to do, what we
0:39:46.819,0:39:54.349
have to do, is convince the politicians[br]and the social scientists that they should
0:39:54.349,0:40:02.059
change their thinking about what is work[br]and what is not work. Every feminist—and
0:40:02.059,0:40:08.049
we should all be feminists—every feminist[br]should be demanding that they change their
0:40:08.049,0:40:15.909
concepts, because it means that most of[br]the work women do doesn't count as work.
0:40:15.909,0:40:20.161
It's ridiculous, it's sexist,[br]it's arbitrary.
0:40:20.161,0:40:30.820
applause[br]For me, this has given a new dimension
0:40:30.820,0:40:34.039
because of the growth of the precariat,[br]because if you're in the precariat you
0:40:34.039,0:40:41.540
know you have to do a lot of work. A lot[br]of work. And you're treated as if you're
0:40:41.540,0:40:51.349
being lazy. But there's another wonderful[br]opportunity here. We all know or should
0:40:51.349,0:41:00.070
know that we are threatened by extinction.[br]Extinction that comes from the greenhouse
0:41:00.070,0:41:06.369
gas emissions, the pollution, the erosion[br]of the commons, the privatization of our
0:41:06.369,0:41:17.529
spaces, our loss of nature, our loss of an[br]ecological landscape. We know that. It's
0:41:17.529,0:41:23.229
the number one crisis charging towards us.[br]We didn't need the panel of climate change
0:41:23.229,0:41:29.940
to tell us that, but we know it. And what[br]are we doing? We've just seen in Poland,
0:41:29.940,0:41:39.339
hardly anything. We need big carbon taxes.[br]Big carbon taxes.
0:41:39.339,0:41:45.359
applause[br]But there are two problems. There are two
0:41:45.359,0:41:55.980
problems. First, taxes are unpopular. And[br]second, if you just put a carbon tax, it
0:41:55.980,0:42:02.380
would worsen inequality. Because the poor[br]person pays proportionately more than the
0:42:02.380,0:42:13.790
rich person. Therefore we need to combine[br]carbon taxes with carbon dividends. So
0:42:13.790,0:42:21.070
that the proceeds of carbon taxes are[br]recycled. I think most of you can work it
0:42:21.070,0:42:28.890
out where I'm ending this discussion.[br]Recycled as basic incomes. The carbon tax
0:42:28.890,0:42:37.029
can pay for a large part of a basic income[br]future, and therefore this perspective
0:42:37.029,0:42:43.859
leads to you thinking: we can advance the[br]cause of ecological survival, advance the
0:42:43.859,0:42:51.109
cause of security, advance the cause of[br]emancipation and do what every
0:42:51.109,0:43:01.279
transformative class should do. The[br]precariat is a transformative class
0:43:01.279,0:43:09.710
because it wants, intuitively, to abolish[br]the conditions that define its existence.
0:43:09.710,0:43:18.430
And therefore—abolish itself. We can do[br]it. Thank you very much.
0:43:18.430,0:43:40.969
applause[br]Herald: Thanks very much. They say on
0:43:40.969,0:43:45.440
Congress every time, every year we have a[br]system that we don't want to use anymore,
0:43:45.440,0:43:50.050
I think it's capitalism.[br]laughter
0:43:50.050,0:43:55.039
applause[br]Herald: We're going to hold a Q&A
0:43:55.039,0:44:00.390
including your questions from the[br]Internet. There are six microphones
0:44:00.390,0:44:08.079
scattered around the room, so if anybody[br]wants to ask a question in public, we'll
0:44:08.079,0:44:14.969
start this now. And we'll start with mic[br]six over there.
0:44:14.969,0:44:19.580
Question: Brilliant. So...[br]Standing: Where is mike six?
0:44:19.580,0:44:21.210
Q: Here.[br]Herald: Mike six is over there.
0:44:21.210,0:44:27.269
Standing: OK. Hello. So[br]Q: Hi, I was wondering... you mentioned
0:44:27.269,0:44:34.099
basic income and you connected it with[br]carbon taxes. I was wondering what other
0:44:34.099,0:44:43.259
strategies you're thinking towards[br]tackling other systemic issues we have,
0:44:43.259,0:44:50.509
especially in regards to land, which to[br]me– you mentioned different types of
0:44:50.509,0:44:58.130
property. But the thing that land today is[br]the proxy to access to all the other
0:44:58.130,0:45:03.880
values. So...[br]Standing: Shall I answer that one?
0:45:03.880,0:45:06.979
Herald: Yes.[br]Standing: Okay, thank you very much. I've
0:45:06.979,0:45:12.039
got a new book coming out to make me more[br]boring. It's called "Plunder of the
0:45:12.039,0:45:19.609
Commons". And basically, what you've[br]touched on is the theme of this book. If
0:45:19.609,0:45:26.710
you think of the commons, the natural[br]commons, the social commons, the civil
0:45:26.710,0:45:35.660
commons, all our commons including land,[br]water, the air, our amenities and so on.
0:45:35.660,0:45:43.059
We've allowed the privatization and[br]colonization of the commons to take profit
0:45:43.059,0:45:49.990
from our commons, and therefore we need a[br]system of levies to say: Hey, we want the
0:45:49.990,0:45:56.260
rental income back for the commoners, and[br]that includes land. That's why I strongly
0:45:56.260,0:46:04.180
favor a Land Value Tax. A Land Value Tax[br]is a very efficient tax and it has to be
0:46:04.180,0:46:10.670
part of building this commons fund along[br]the Alaska Permanent Fund. Principles of
0:46:10.670,0:46:15.680
those... you're all familiar with that. We[br]also need it for water, for air, for
0:46:15.680,0:46:23.930
digital information. I don't believe[br]taxing robots, as Bill Gates proposes, is
0:46:23.930,0:46:29.190
the answer. What I do believe is we should[br]put a levy on all the information that
0:46:29.190,0:46:35.920
Amazon and Facebook and the others are[br]taking from us free and making billions.
0:46:35.920,0:46:38.830
We should have a levy on that,[br]applause
0:46:38.830,0:46:43.600
Standing: ... and the levy the levy should[br]go to everybody equally. Because you
0:46:43.600,0:46:49.200
cannot attribute the profits they're[br]making to any individual. We have to give
0:46:49.200,0:46:55.471
it to everybody. And if we do that we are[br]all the time building the fund that can
0:46:55.471,0:47:00.960
help pay out towards a decent basic[br]income. So that's my answer to your
0:47:00.960,0:47:07.469
question.[br]Herald: Thanks very much. Mic four.
0:47:07.469,0:47:14.290
Q: Hi, thank you for being here. Great[br]pleasure. Just recently, Sahra Wagenknecht
0:47:14.290,0:47:20.520
was invited in a talkshow about basic[br]income and future of work. She's the
0:47:20.520,0:47:26.039
leader of the German party The Left, "Die[br]Linke". She said that she don't like the
0:47:26.039,0:47:33.050
idea of basic income. Her two arguments[br]are she don't like it. Regarding merchant
0:47:33.050,0:47:39.079
neoliberal powers, they also like the idea[br]of basic income. For example the CEO of
0:47:39.079,0:47:45.990
Volkswagen and other big players and[br]second, she said if you move to a basic
0:47:45.990,0:47:52.109
income, we will lose a lot of—we, as[br]society—will lose a lot of protection and
0:47:52.109,0:48:00.020
social benefits. What would be your[br]reaction on her opinion?
0:48:00.020,0:48:06.529
Standing: I address this question in my[br]basic income book in the following way:
0:48:06.529,0:48:17.549
every new idea in history, in social[br]policy in particular, has been greeted, at
0:48:17.549,0:48:24.980
the time, by people saying it will[br]threaten something else and that it will
0:48:24.980,0:48:31.510
lead to unintended negative consequences.[br]They said this about unemployment
0:48:31.510,0:48:37.999
benefits. They said it about family[br]benefits. And then, when it's introduced,
0:48:37.999,0:48:50.909
suddenly the objections go away. To me, I[br]asked myself the following question: Do I
0:48:50.909,0:49:00.230
want that person, or that person, or the[br]person I meet in the street... do I want
0:49:00.230,0:49:09.110
that person to have the basic security of[br]being able to pay for food, to pay for
0:49:09.110,0:49:17.950
their rent, and to buy decent clothes? Do[br]I want that? And I say very easily to
0:49:17.950,0:49:25.349
myself: yes! I want that! Don't tell me[br]that it's going to be a threat to
0:49:25.349,0:49:33.579
something else if that person has basic[br]security! Why is it, that so many social
0:49:33.579,0:49:41.579
democrats make this argument? I've[br]confronted many, including one major trade
0:49:41.579,0:49:47.250
union leader. I said, "why are you so[br]hostile to having people base– have basic
0:49:47.250,0:49:56.690
income? Why?" And the man who was chairing[br]the session when I was talking, he said,
0:49:56.690,0:50:02.540
"I think we'll have a coffee break now"[br]before anybody could answer and when we
0:50:02.540,0:50:08.740
came back he said "Well now we'll move on[br]to the next session" and the trade union
0:50:08.740,0:50:15.300
leader at the back stood up and he said[br]"No, I think we should answer the
0:50:15.300,0:50:23.539
question". And he said "you know I think[br]the answer is, that if people had basic
0:50:23.539,0:50:33.690
security, they wouldn't be dependent on[br]us. They wouldn't join trade unions" and I
0:50:33.690,0:50:36.309
looked at him.[br]applause
0:50:36.309,0:50:43.910
I looked at him and I said "just imagine[br]the morality of what you've just said. The
0:50:43.910,0:50:51.369
morality is, you want people to be fearful[br]and insecure, because you want to gain." I
0:50:51.369,0:50:57.519
said "But you're also wrong. Because[br]you're wrong in the following respect:
0:50:57.519,0:51:04.160
people who are insecure and frightened[br]don't engage in politics they don't engage
0:51:04.160,0:51:11.619
in society. They've got too many things to[br]worry about. If they have basic security,
0:51:11.619,0:51:17.180
they're more likely to stand up and fight[br]for rights, more likely to stand up and
0:51:17.180,0:51:25.230
fight for the ecology, more likely to be[br]good citizens. Why don't you trust people
0:51:25.230,0:51:34.339
more? Why are you so bureaucratic and[br]distrustful? Believe it. We need a new
0:51:34.339,0:51:40.940
distribution system. And don't tell me[br]neo-liberalism is going to destroy it.
0:51:40.940,0:51:47.000
They're destroying what we've got anyhow.[br]We can do better than that and if you
0:51:47.000,0:51:53.680
deny, you—people who say this not you, but[br]people who say that—you are denying the
0:51:53.680,0:51:59.069
enlightenment freedoms that we should be[br]fighting for! So I say, stop being so
0:51:59.069,0:52:05.739
negative, to those people. Sorry. I was a[br]bit angry but apologized.
0:52:05.739,0:52:11.229
applause[br]Herald: laughs you've got all reason to.
0:52:11.229,0:52:16.020
A question from the Internet.[br]Internet: There was a popular vote in
0:52:16.020,0:52:20.080
Switzerland on basic income and it was[br]massively rejected. How do you analyse
0:52:20.080,0:52:23.919
that, what should be the way forward, and[br]how can we inaudible against the
0:52:23.919,0:52:30.409
globalists who oppose basic income?[br]Standing: I ... again address that
0:52:30.409,0:52:37.519
particular referendum. I participated in[br]the referendum. We had no money. We
0:52:37.519,0:52:42.440
mobilized a hundred twenty five thousand[br]signatures, literally going in the
0:52:42.440,0:52:47.729
streets. All the banks were putting up[br]money. The main political parties were
0:52:47.729,0:52:54.479
opposed, etc. But we were doing[br]fantastically well. We got up to about 40
0:52:54.479,0:53:01.200
percent opinion poll support applause[br]and then one of our leaders, one of our
0:53:01.200,0:53:07.769
leaders without permission from any of us,[br]went on television and an interviewer
0:53:07.769,0:53:14.089
asked him, he said "Well how much do you[br]think the basic income should be?" and the
0:53:14.089,0:53:19.300
man, instead of saying it's up to[br]parliament and everything, which is what
0:53:19.300,0:53:25.530
the referendum said, he said it should be[br]two thousand five hundred Swiss francs per
0:53:25.530,0:53:33.650
month. Which, for your information, is[br]considerably higher than all the rural
0:53:33.650,0:53:41.949
areas, the rural cantons, in Switzerland.[br]At that moment we lost the referendum. We
0:53:41.949,0:53:49.410
lost. I'm proud of the fact that in Geneva[br]we got 38 percent. And that was where I
0:53:49.410,0:53:53.359
was campaigning—it had nothing to do with[br]me, but the fact was that they had more
0:53:53.359,0:53:59.080
meetings and more people could understand[br]what the politics were. But the greatest
0:53:59.080,0:54:05.099
thing about that referendum is that today[br]people in Switzerland in the auberges, the
0:54:05.099,0:54:14.049
cafes, they're talking about basic income,[br]they know what it means. I gave a talk
0:54:14.049,0:54:21.810
recently in a big theater in Geneva. There[br]were hundreds and hundreds of people. Many
0:54:21.810,0:54:27.130
of those had not participated. If there is[br]another referendum I think it will
0:54:27.130,0:54:36.150
succeed. Switzerland has a history of even[br]very mild ideas losing in the first
0:54:36.150,0:54:41.489
referendum and then a few years later a[br]second referendum, they pass. So I'm
0:54:41.489,0:54:50.500
actually optimistic that it will come in[br]Switzerland—but not 2500.
0:54:50.500,0:54:56.599
Herald: Thank you. Mic six again.[br]Mic 6: I think a lot of the ideas you
0:54:56.599,0:55:03.010
presented here are, like, respected in the[br]community and the Congress. But how can we
0:55:03.010,0:55:09.179
change the society? How can we change the[br]mind of all the other people to also
0:55:09.179,0:55:16.340
considers these ideas to transform to a[br]new society?
0:55:16.340,0:55:25.279
Standing: I think this is the biggest[br]question you could ask. I strongly believe
0:55:25.279,0:55:36.599
that it's up to us. It really is up to us.[br]Politicians have spaghetti in backbones.
0:55:36.599,0:55:44.839
Our job is to strengthen the spaghetti.[br]Our job is to desplain why dreaming of the
0:55:44.839,0:55:54.559
impossible leads to it becoming possible,[br]and then happening. I believe that we have
0:55:54.559,0:56:04.059
to be taking part in any small way we can.[br]I will tell you a secret. Yesterday a very
0:56:04.059,0:56:10.690
good friend of mine, an economist, very[br]well-known economist. He contacted me and
0:56:10.690,0:56:16.040
we were talking and he said : "Guy, why[br]are you wasting your time going to
0:56:16.040,0:56:24.349
Leipzig? On December the 27th, when you[br]should be having relaxation with
0:56:24.349,0:56:36.779
Christmas?" and I said "John, that's not[br]it. I hope that just one person, just one,
0:56:36.779,0:56:45.519
will leave this room, with more energy and[br]with more thought than when I started.
0:56:45.519,0:56:53.190
Just one." That would be worth coming to[br]Leipzig. I feel energized. I hope somebody
0:56:53.190,0:56:58.789
here feels energized. We have to realise[br]that it is up to us. We have no excuse for
0:56:58.789,0:57:08.660
cynicism. We have to challenge the Trumps.[br]We can't let them win. For our children
0:57:08.660,0:57:21.329
and grandchildren, we can't let them win.[br]applause
0:57:21.329,0:57:25.710
Herald: Thank you very much. I think[br]you'll be around for more questions. We're
0:57:25.710,0:57:31.999
out of time, sorry, but you can ask those[br]questions directly and I think they will
0:57:31.999,0:57:36.145
be answered in great length.[br]Standing: Thank you.
0:57:36.145,0:57:41.384
35c3 postroll music
0:57:41.384,0:57:59.000
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