[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,... wanted to be able to use
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thunderbird and GnuPG together with Tor,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so we thought:
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,oh, it would be really easy, I bet,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to configure Thunderbird to work with Tor
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- hah - so a new Free software project\Nwas born.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a really simple thing, but basically
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's just a package\Nthat hooks it all together.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So a lot of people were using Thunderbird
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and TorBirdy, and GnuPG, and Tor,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Debian, together for email,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,combined with Riseup as an email service.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it's a literally a real peer to peer,\NFree software driven set of things,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually, that made it possible.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[question]:\NSo one thing I never understood about this
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,process was exactly how the documents were\Nhandled, and maybe that's because nobody
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wants to say, but, you know, did you leave\Nthem on a server somewhere and download
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,them, hand them over to people, and who\Ntook what where, and how do you...
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in case I need to do something really\Ndangerous with a load of documents,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what's the best way of doing it?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughter]
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Jacob]: Hmm!
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[audience member]: It's a good thing\Nthis isn't being streamed.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm sorry, what?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was a voice from god,\Nwhat did she say?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[audience]:\NI said good we aren't streaming tonight.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Oh yeah, so hello to all of our friends\N
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in domestic and international\Nsurveillance services.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, so I won't answer your question,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but since you asked the question,\Nit's my turn to talk.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what I would say is that...
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you want to do clandestine activities
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you fear for your life for,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you need to really think about\Nthe situation that you're in
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very carefully.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so a big part of this is\Noperational security
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a big part of that is\Ncompartmentalization.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So certain people had access\Nto certain things,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but maybe they couldn't decrypt them,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and certain things were moved around,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's on a need to know basis,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and those people who knew,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is not me - I don't know anything,\NI don't know what you're talking about.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those people knew, and then you know,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it'll go with them to their grave.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if you're interested in being the next\NEdward Snowden,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you need to do your homework
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in finding people that will be able to do\Nthe other part of it, let's say.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But just in general, I mean
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,compartmentalization is key, right.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it's not just for AppArmor profiles.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you need to think about\Nwhat you want to do.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I mean a big part of this\Nis to consider that the network itself
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the enemy, even though it is useful\Nfor communicating.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So all the metadata that exists\Non the network
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,could have tipped people off,\Ncould have caused
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this whole thing to fall apart.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It really is amazing, I feel like you know
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,two and half, three years ago,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when you talk about Free software,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you talk about the idea of\NFree software,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you talk about issues relating to\Nautonomy and privacy, and security
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you have a really different reception now\Nthan you did then,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's really what it took
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to turn the world half a degree,\Nor something,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or a quarter of a degree or something.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I'm not going to tell you about\Ndetailed plans for conspiracy,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I highly encourage you to read about\NSouth African history,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in particular the history of\NUmkhonto we Sizwe.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They are the clandestine communications\Ngroup for MK,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or rather the operation who lay inside of MK,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is Umkhonto we Sizwe,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they are sort of with\Nthe African National Congress,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and those people have published so many\Nbooks about the revolutionary activities
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to overthrow the apartheid state.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you read these books, especially\Nthe book "Operation Vula"
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and "Armed and Dangerous"\Nby Ronnie Kasrils
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they give you some idea about\Nwhat you need to do
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is to compartmentalize,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how to find people to do various tasks,\Nspecific tasks,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how to work on building trust\Nwith each other, what that looks like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how to identify political targets,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how you might use things\Nlike communications technology
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to change the political topic on,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the discussion in general.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think the best way to learn about\Nthese things is to study previous people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who have tried to do that kind of stuff.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the NSA is not the apartheid regime of\NSouth Africa,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but there are still lessons\Nto be learned there,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so if you really want to know the answer\Nto that, also Che Guevara's manual
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on guerilla warfare is very interesting,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there's a lot of other books like that.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd be happy to talk about it\Nwith you later.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I have nothing to do with anything\Nthat we may or may not have done.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughter]
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[question]: Do you think there is a chance\Nthat things may get better
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for example I know that publicly,\Nsome programs were not extended
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I don't know what is happening\Nin the background
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so maybe it's the same thing\Nbut they are pretending that it's not
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How do you see this?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Jacob]: Well I think a couple of things.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In general I think what happened, not just\Nwith this movie but with all of these things
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that in inspired hope,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the hope is very important,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but hope is not a strategy for survival,\Nor for building alternatives,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so what it has also done, is that it has\Nallowed us to raise the profile
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the things which actually do\Nmake it better.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For example ridding ourselves of the\Nchains of proprietary software
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is something that's a serious discussion\Nwith people that wouldn't have previously
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talked about Free software\Nbecause they don't care about liberty,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they care about security.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And even though I think those are\Nreally simliar things,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,previously they just thought we were just\NFree software hippies,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in tie-dye shirts
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and while that may be true on the weekends\Nand evenings
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or with Bdale every day\N[laughter]
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that actually does make it better
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it also changes the dialogue, in\Nthe sense that it's no longer reasonable
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to pretend that mass surveillance and\Nsurveillance issues don't matter,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because if you really go down the\Nrabbit-hole
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of thinking about what the security\Nservices are trying to do
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it becomes obvious that we want to encrypt\Neverything all the time
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to beat selector-based surveillance\Nand dragnet-based surveillance.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It doesn't matter if something is authenticated
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You could still trigger some action\Nto take place
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with these kinds of surveillance machines
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that could for example drone\Nstrike someone,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so it raises that.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that gives me a lot of hope too,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because people understand the root\Nof the problem,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or the root of many problems
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the root of some violence\Nin the world, actually.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so it helps us to reduce that\Nviolence
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by getting people to acknowledge\Nthat it's real
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and also that they care about it
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that we care about each other.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that really gives me a lot of hope,\Nand part of that is Snowden
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and part of that is the documents
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the other part of it is that..
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't want to blow it up and make it\Nsound like we did something
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like a big deal,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but in a sense, Laura, Glen, myself\Nand a number of other people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were really not sure we would ever be able\Nto travel home to our country
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we wouldn't be arrested.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I actually haven't been home\Nin over two and half years,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,well, two years and three months\Nor something
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I went out on a small business trip\Nthat was supposed to last two weeks
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then this happened
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I've been hear ever since.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a really long, crazy trip.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the point is that that's what was\Nnecessary to make some of these changes
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and eventually it will turn around
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I will be able to go home,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Laura and Glen will be able to travel\Nto the US again.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Obviously, Julian is still stuck in the\NEcuadorian embassy
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sarah lives in exile in Berlin,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I live in exile in Berlin,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Ed is in Moscow
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we're not finished with some of\Nthese things
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's also possible that we are,\Nthe set of people I mentioned,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the state we're in, will stay that way\Nforever.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But what matters is that the rest\Nof the world
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can actually move on and fix some of\Nthese problems,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I have a lot of hope about that.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I see a lot of change, that's the\Nreally big part.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like I see the reproducible build stuff\Nthat Holger and Lunar are working on.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People really understand the root reason\Nfor needing to do that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and actually seems quite reasonable\Nto people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who would previously have expended energy\Nagainst it,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in support of it, so I think that's\Nreally good.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there's a lot of other hopeful things.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I would try and be as uplifting\Nas possible.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not just the rum!
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[question]: Near the end of the film\Nwe saw something about another source.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I may have been missing some news\Nor something
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I don't remember anything about that\Nbeing public.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Do you know what happened to them?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Jacob]: As far as I know any other\Nsource that was mentioned in the film
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is still anonymous, and they're still free.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not exactly sure because I was not\Ninvolved in that part
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I also saw the end of the film
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I've seen a bunch of other reporting\Nwhich wasn't attributed to anyone in particular
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the good news... there's an old slogan\Nfrom the Dutch hacker community, right?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Someone you trust is one of us,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the leak is higher up in the chain of\Ncommand than you"
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I feel like that might be true again,\Nhopefully.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that guy has a question as well.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[question]: Part of the problem initially\Nwas that encryption software
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was not so easy to use, right?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think part of the challenge\Nfor everyone
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was to improve on that situation\Nto make it better
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so I'm asking you if you've observed\Nany change and to the rest of the room
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have we done anything to improve on that?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Jacob]: I definitely think that there is\Na lot of free software
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that makes encryption easier to use,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,though not always on free platforms,\Nwhich really is heart-breaking.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For example Moxie Marlinspike has done\Na really good job
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with Signal, Textsecure and Redphone
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and making end-to-end, encrypted\Ncalling, texting, sexting,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and whatever apps,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sext-secure is what I think it's nicknamed
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I'm very impressed by that,\Nand it works really well
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's something which in the\Nlast two years
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you have a cell-phone,\Nwhich I don't recommend
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but if you have a cell-phone,\Nand you put in everyone's phone number,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of people that I would classify as\Nnon-technical people,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that don't care about Free software\Nas a hobby or as a passion
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or as a profession.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You see their names in those systems
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,often more than some of the\NFree software people,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's really impressive to me,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think there's been a huge shift\Njust generally about those sorts of things
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,also about social responsibility,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or people understand they have a\Nresponsibility to other people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to encrypt communications,\Nand not to put people in harm's way
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by sending unsafe stuff over\Nunsafe communication lines.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I think in my personal view it's better.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the original problem wasn't actually\Nthat the encryption was hard to use.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think the main problem is people didn't\Nunderstand the reason
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it needed to be done
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they believed the lie that is\Ntargetted versus mass surveillance.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there's a big lie, and the lie is\Nthat there is such a thing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as targeted surveillance.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the modern era, most so-called\Ntargetted surveillance actually happens
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,through mass surveillance.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They gather everything up, and then they\Nlook through the thing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they've already seized.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And of course there are targetted,\Nfocussed attacks.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the main thing is that the abuse of\Nsurveillance often happens
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on an individual basis.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It also has a societal cost.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think a lot of people really\Nunderstand that.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's probably because I also live in\NGermany now for the last two years
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I feel that German society in\Nparticular is extremely aware
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of these abuses in the modern world
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they have a historical context\Nthat allows them to talk about it
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the rest of the world, where the\Nworld doesn't downplay it.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this is how other people relate to\NGermany
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not just about Germans relate to\Neach other.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that has also been really good\Nfor just meeting regular people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who really care about it,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and who really want to do things.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So people's parents email me,\Nand are like
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I want to protect my children,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what's the best way to use crypto\Nwith them?"
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, things like that.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I didn't every receive emails like\Nthat in the past
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's to me is uplifting\Nand very positive.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[question]: A quick organisational question.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right now we're live-streaming the Q&A.\NAre you comfortable with that?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Jacob]: I don't think in the last three\Nyears I've ever had a moment
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that wasn't being recorded.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughter, applause]
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[question]: If you're fine with it, moving on...
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Jacob]: That's fine, just don't do it\Nwhen I'm trying to sleep.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[question]: I was wondering why Laura\Nand you ended up in Germany
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because what you said about people in\NGermany might be true
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I'm really ashamed about my Government\Nand how they dealt with ????
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they are doing nothing for this.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Jacob]: The reason that we ended up in\NGermany
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that I'd been attending\NChaos Computer Club events
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for many years
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there are bunch of people that are\Npart of the Chaos Computer Club
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are really supportive,\Nand good people,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who have a stable base,\Nand an infrastructure.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The German hacker scene has this\Nphenomenon which is that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's a part of society.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there are people in the CCC who will\Ntalk with the constitutional court
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for example,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that creates a much more stable\Nsociety
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and those people were willing to help us.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They were willing to hold footage,\Nto hold encrypted data.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They were willing to help modify hardware.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was a huge base of support where\Npeople, even if they had fear,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they did stuff anyway.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that support went back a long time.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so we knew that it would be safe\Nto store footage for the film here.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In Berlin, not in Heidelberg, but here\Nin Germany.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we knew that, of course,\Nthere were people that would be helpful.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the US there's a much bigger culture\Nof fear.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People are afraid of having their houses\Nraided by the police,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where there's lots of detainments at the\Nborders,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where there's lots of speculative arrests,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,journalists that are jailed,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so the situation was not to say that\NGermany was perfect.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I revealed in Der Speigel with three other\Njournalists that Merkel was spied on
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the NSA.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's clear that the Germany government\Nwas complicit
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with some of this surveillance.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But in a sort of pyramid of surveillance\Nthere's a sort of colonialism
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that takes place.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that the NSA and GCHQ are at the top.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the Germans are little bit below that.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The thing is that there's not a lot you\Ndo about that.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so even though we revealed this\Nabout Merkel,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's not clear what she should do.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not clear what anyone should do.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But one thing that was clear was that\Nif they wanted to break into our houses
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they would do it in a way that would\Ncost them a lot politically.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It would be very public.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The last time someone raided someone\Nworking with Der Speigel
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was in 1962 during the Speigel affair,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and some ministers were kicked out.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You may have seen recently the\NLandersverrat thing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with Netzpolitik.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The charges against them now\Nhave been dropped.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That would never happen in the\NUnited States.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We would not be safe.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I still, for my investigative\Njournalism,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and my work with Wikileaks,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and my work with the Tor project,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I wouldn't even go back to the US,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because there's no chance that if they\Nwanted to do something to me
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I would have any constitutional\Nliberties, I think,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the same is true of Snowden.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You just won't get that fair trial.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we thought at least here we would\Nhave ground to stand and fight on.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's exactly what happened,\Nand we won.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[question]: This is also about the fear\Nstuff that you talk about
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is in the very old days we used to\Nput red words in the end of every message
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make sure that it would be hard to find\Nthe actual subversive message
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,among all the noise.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you can think about the same thing\Nhere.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Should we build our systems so that\Neverything gets encrypted all the time?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Jacob]: So I have a lot of radical\Nsuggestions for what to do,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I'm going to talk about them tomorrow\Nin the keynote mostly.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But to give you an example,\Nif you install Debian,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can give someone the ability to log\Ninto the machine
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over a Tor hidden service for free.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You get a free .onion when you add two\Nlines to a Tor configuration file.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We should make encryption not only easy\Nto use but out of the box
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we should have it possible to have\Nend-to-end reachability and connectivity,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we should reduce the total amount\Nof metadata, to make it harder for people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who want to break the law, that want to\Nbreak into computers.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We should solve the problem of adversarial\Nversus non-adversarial forensics
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so we can verify our systems with open\Nhardware and Free software together.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there's a lot to be done,\Nbut the main thing to do is to recognise
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that if you have the ability to upload\Nto Debian,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are literally intelligence agencies\Nthat would like those keys.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we have a great responsiblity to\Nhumanity as Debian developers
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to do the right thing: to build open\Nsystems,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to build them in a way where users don't\Nneed to understand this stuff.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are a lot of people in the world\Nthat will never see this film.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we can solve the problems that this\Nfilm describes largely with Free software.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we can do that without them knowing,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they will be safe for us having\Ndone that.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if we can do that, the world will be\Na better place, I think.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think the world is a better place\Nbecause of the efforts that were
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,already done in that area, that made this\Npossible.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Tails project made it so that a bunch\Nof people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who were good at investigative journalism,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but absolutely terrible with computers,\Nwere able to pull this off.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that is entirely the product, in my\Nopinion, of Free software.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And a little bit of Laura and Glen, but\NI'd say a lot of Free software.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[question]: How many people do you think\NNSA has
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,working within the Debian community?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughter, applause]
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Jacob]: Well, I looked in the Snowden\Narchive about that actually.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughter, applause]
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah. And as far as I can Debian is not a\Nhigh priority target for them.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean they write exploits for all sort\Nof stuff
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I never found any systematic attempt\Nto compromise or harm the Debian project.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But obviously there are people who are\Npaid by the NSA to infiltrate communities,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's why we have to open transparent\Nprocesses
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that if those people behave badly,\Nwe have an audit trail.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We won't ever stop that kind of stuff,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but what matters\Nis that people do good things.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It doesn't matter who they do bad things\Nfor as long as we can correct those things
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and/or catch them and stop them before\Nit happens.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But as far as I know there are only a\Ncouple of people that have ever
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,been associated with the NSA in the\NDebian community.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I think we shouldn't get paranoid\Nabout it,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we should just be prudent about our\Nprocesses,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because there are lots of intelligence\Nservices around the world
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that do not like the values of a\Nuniversal operating system,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so I don't think it's super-important to\Nlook, but I did actually look,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very specifically for a whole bunch of\Npeople in the Debian community
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to see if any of them also were being\Npaid by the NSA
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I didn't find any serious thing that\Nraised concern,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if I did, I would have...
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, there were lots of things I found\Nin the archive that I immediately
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,notified security teams about.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Where I worked along with many other\Npeople to actually fix those things.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And one of those things, if we had found\Nthem, like infiltrators in Debian,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I absolutely would have just told people\Nabout.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The problem is that a lot of the\Njournalists don't want to do that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because there's a ten year felony\Nwhere you go to prison -
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a federal American prison -
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you reveal the name of an agent.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there's a tension there,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I think that there's something\Nto be said,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if they're actually actively harming the\Ncommunity
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they're committing a crime,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think there's something to be said\Nabout that.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if I found that I think it would be\Nworthwhile,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but just so you know, there's this\Nhigh cost.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if there were people in the agency\Nnow,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they say that we used Tails, and\NDebian, and they wanted to subvert it,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's a really really high bar for\Npunishment.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which suggests that maybe people\Nwon't tell you.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we need to sort of bank on the fact\Nthat we'll never know,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we don't need to know, as long as we\Nhave good processes
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that would catch bad behaviour.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's one of the strengths of Debian.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are very few operating systems,\NI think,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and just in general Free software\Ncommunities,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are as diverse, and committed to the\Nopenness and the Free software nature
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of this kind of a project,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so it's very important to state that.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I do think one of the things that will\Nhappen in the future at some point
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that you'll start to find people in the\NDebian community that are pressured
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by other people to do bad things
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so we need to set up processes that will\Nstop that,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to create an incentive for that\Nnot happening.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it's really tough,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so I think that openness, transparency\Nand accountability are the ways that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we can combat that, because otherwise\Nwe won't really be able to solve it.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But don't be paranoid, is the other thing.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They really are out to get you,\Nso be prepared.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughter, applause]