9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
... wanted to be able to use

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Thunderbird and GnuPG together with Tor,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and so we thought:

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
oh, it would be really easy, I bet,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to configure Thunderbird to work with Tor

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
- hah - so a new Free software project

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
was born.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It's a really simple thing, but basically

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
it's just a package

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that hooks it all together.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So a lot of people were using Thunderbird

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and TorBirdy, and GnuPG, and Tor,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and Debian, together for email,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
combined with Riseup as an email service.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So it's a literally a real peer to peer,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Free software driven set of things,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
actually, that made it possible.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So one thing I never understood about this

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
process was exactly how the documents were

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
handled, and maybe that's because nobody

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
wants to say, but, you know, did you leave

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
them on a server somewhere and download

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
them, hand them over to people, and who

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
took what where, and how do you...

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
in case I need to do something really

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
dangerous with a load of documents,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
what's the best way of doing it?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Hmm!

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It's a good thing

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
this isn't being streamed.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I'm sorry, what?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
There was a voice from god,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
what did she say?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I said good we aren't streaming tonight.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Oh yeah, so hello to all of our friends

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
in domestic and international

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
surveillance services.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Well, so I won't answer your question,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but since you asked the question,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
it's my turn to talk.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So what I would say is that...

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
if you want to do clandestine activities

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that you fear for your life for,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
you need to really think about

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the situation that you're in

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
very carefully.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And so a big part of this is

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
operational security

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and a big part of that is

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
compartmentalization.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So certain people had access

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to certain things,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but maybe they couldn't decrypt them,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and certain things were moved around,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and that's on a need to know basis,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and those people who knew,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
which is not me - I don't know anything,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I don't know what you're talking about.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Those people knew, and then you know,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
it'll go with them to their grave.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So if you're interested in being the next

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Edward Snowden,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
you need to do your homework

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
in finding people that will be able to do

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the other part of it, let's say.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But just in general, I mean

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
compartmentalization is key, right.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So it's not just for AppArmor profiles.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So you need to think about

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
what you want to do.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And I mean a big part of this is

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to consider that the network itself

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
is the enemy, even though is useful

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
for communicating.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So all the metadata that exists

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
on the network could have

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
tipped people of, could have caused this

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
whole thing to fall apart.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It really is amazing, I feel like you know

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
two and half, three years ago,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
when you talk about Free software,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and you talk about the idea of

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Free software,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and you talk about issues relating to

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
autonomy and privacy, and security

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
you have a really different reception now

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
than you did then,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and that's really what it took

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to turn the world half a degree,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
or a quarter of a degree or something.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So I'm not going to tell you about

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
detailed plans for conspiracy,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but I highly encourage you to read about

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
South African history, in particular

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the history of Umkhonto we Sizwe.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
They are the clandestine communications

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
group for MK, or rather the operation

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
who lay inside of MK, which is

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Umkhonto we Sizwe,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and they are sort of with

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the African National Congress,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and those people have published so many

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
books about the revolutionary activities

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to overthrow the apartheid state.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
If you read these books, especially

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the book "Operation Vula"

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and "Armed and Dangerous"

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
by Ronnie Kasrils

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
they give you some idea about

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
what you need to do

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
which is to compartmentalize,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
how to find people to do various tasks,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
specific tasks,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
how to work on building trust

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
with each other, what that looks like,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
how to identify political targets,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
how you might use things

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
like communications technology

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to change the political topic on,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and the discussion in general.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And I think the best way to learn about

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
these things is to study previous people

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
who have tried to do that kind of stuff.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And the NSA is not the apartheid regime of

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
South Africa,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but there are still lessons

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to be learned there,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
so if you really want to know the answer

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to that, also Che Guevara's manual on

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
guerilla warfare is very interesting,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and there's a lot of other books like that.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I'd be happy to talk about it

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
with you later.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And I have nothing to do with anything

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that we may or may not have done.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
[laughter]