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... wanted to be able to use

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Thunderbird and GnuPG together with Tor,

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and so we thought:

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oh, it would be really easy, I bet,

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to configure Thunderbird to work with Tor

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- hah - so a new Free software project

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was born.

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It's a really simple thing, but basically

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it's just a package

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that hooks it all together.

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So a lot of people were using Thunderbird

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and TorBirdy, and GnuPG, and Tor,

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and Debian, together for email,

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combined with Riseup as an email service.

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So it's a literally a real peer to peer,

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Free software driven set of things,

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actually, that made it possible.

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So one thing I never understood about this

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process was exactly how the documents were

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handled, and maybe that's because nobody

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wants to say, but, you know, did you leave

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them on a server somewhere and download

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them, hand them over to people, and who

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took what where, and how do you...

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in case I need to do something really

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dangerous with a load of documents,

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what's the best way of doing it?

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Hmm!

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It's a good thing

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this isn't being streamed.

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I'm sorry, what?

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There was a voice from god,

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what did she say?

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I said good we aren't streaming tonight.

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Oh yeah, so hello to all of our friends

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in domestic and international

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surveillance services.

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Well, so I won't answer your question,

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but since you asked the question,

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it's my turn to talk.

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So what I would say is that...

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if you want to do clandestine activities

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that you fear for your life for,

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you need to really think about

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the situation that you're in

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very carefully.

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And so a big part of this is

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operational security

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and a big part of that is

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compartmentalization.

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So certain people had access

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to certain things,

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but maybe they couldn't decrypt them,

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and certain things were moved around,

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and that's on a need to know basis,

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and those people who knew,

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which is not me - I don't know anything,

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I don't know what you're talking about.

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Those people knew, and then you know,

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it'll go with them to their grave.

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So if you're interested in being the next

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Edward Snowden,

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you need to do your homework

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in finding people that will be able to do

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the other part of it, let's say.

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But just in general, I mean

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compartmentalization is key, right.

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So it's not just for AppArmor profiles.

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So you need to think about

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what you want to do.

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And I mean a big part of this is

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to consider that the network itself

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is the enemy, even though is useful

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for communicating.

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So all the metadata that exists

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on the network could have

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tipped people of, could have caused this

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whole thing to fall apart.

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It really is amazing, I feel like you know

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two and half, three years ago,

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when you talk about Free software,

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and you talk about the idea of

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Free software,

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and you talk about issues relating to

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autonomy and privacy, and security

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you have a really different reception now

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than you did then,

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and that's really what it took

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to turn the world half a degree,

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or a quarter of a degree or something.

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So I'm not going to tell you about

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detailed plans for conspiracy,

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but I highly encourage you to read about

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South African history, in particular

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the history of Umkhonto we Sizwe.

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They are the clandestine communications

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group for MK, or rather the operation

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who lay inside of MK, which is

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Umkhonto we Sizwe,

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and they are sort of with

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the African National Congress,

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and those people have published so many

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books about the revolutionary activities

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to overthrow the apartheid state.

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If you read these books, especially

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the book "Operation Vula"

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and "Armed and Dangerous"

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by Ronnie Kasrils