WEBVTT

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史：諗返我研究生第一年

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當時我攤喺床

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食好多班傑利雪糕

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睇無聊電視

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或者聽 Taylor Swift 嘅歌

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嗰時我啱啱分咗手

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（笑聲）

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所以，第一次長時間，我喺度

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不斷回憶關於呢個人

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我希望能夠擺脫呢種自我苦惱

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內臟似俾掏空一樣嘅感覺

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宜家，我係神經生物學家

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因此我知道對舊情人嘅記憶

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同記憶中唔舒服嘅感覺

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大部分係由獨立嘅腦部系統所介導

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所以，我喺度諗，如果我哋可以進入大腦

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剪走嗰種令人作嘔嘅感覺

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但仍然保持對舊情人嘅完整記憶，係會點？

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然後我認識到，呢個諗法目前嚟講仲係做唔到

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咁我哋係咪可以由進入大腦、尋找單一記憶

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著手？

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我哋可唔可以將記憶帶返嚟現實生活

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甚至操作記憶？

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但到呢一刻，我真心希望一個人

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冇睇到呢場演講

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（笑聲）

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所以篇講稿有陷阱，有陷阱！

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呢啲諗法或者令你哋諗起電影《全面回憶》

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《暖暖內含光》

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或者《盜夢空間》

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但同我哋實驗室合作嘅明星

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位位都係星光熠熠

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劉：但呢啲明星只不過係實驗室嘅老鼠

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（笑聲）

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身為神經生物學家，我哋喺實驗室用老鼠

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去睇下記憶點樣運作

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今日，我哋希望令你相信

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宜家我哋能夠以光速啟動

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大腦嘅記憶

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為咗令你哋相信，你哋只需要簡單做兩樣嘢

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首先，你搵同埋標記大腦裏邊嘅一個記憶

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然後用開關激活個記憶

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就係咁簡單

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（笑聲）

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史︰你哋信未？

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實際上喺大腦裏面搵一個記憶並唔係咁容易

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劉︰冇錯

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呢樣比喺禾稈裏面搵一支針仲難

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因為至少支針你哋

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仲可以實在咁掂到

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但記憶唔係

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而且，大腦裏面嘅細胞數量

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多過禾稈裡面嘅雜草數目

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的確，個項目睇起嚟幾令人心灰意冷

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但係幸運嘅係，我哋由大腦自身獲得幫助

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所以我哋要做嘅就只係

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畀大腦形成一個記憶

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然後大腦會話畀我哋聽邊啲細胞

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參與形成記憶

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史︰咁當我諗返前度嘅時候

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大腦會有咩變化？

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如果你唔講人道主義

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將我嘅大腦切片

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你會發現當我諗返前度時

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有非常多嘅大腦區域會被刺激

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而其中一個強烈活躍嘅區域

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係海馬體

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一個幾十年嚟被認為

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會處理近期同親切記憶嘅區域

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所以佢都係一個理想地方

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畀人可以進入、尋找同啟動記憶

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劉︰當你令用顯微鏡觀察海馬體

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唔單止會見到好多細胞

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我哋仲能夠搵到嗰啲參與

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某個記憶嘅細胞

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因為當細胞活動時

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例如當細胞建立某種記憶時

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細胞會留低痕跡

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我哋就可以透過痕跡知道最近邊啲細胞啟動過

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史︰呢樣就好似夜晚寫字樓著咗燈

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你會知道有人做緊嘢

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同樣細胞都有咁嘅燈，不過叫生物感應器

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當細胞做緊嘢嘅時候

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生物感應器會著

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生物感應器就好似盞燈一樣

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畀我哋知道細胞活動

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劉︰所以我哋將生物感應器

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連接到開關，控制呢啲細胞

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我哋將呢個開關擺喺一個改造過嘅病毒裏面

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將病毒注入老鼠大腦

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於是當一個記憶形成嗰陣

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任何參與在內嘅細胞

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都會裝上呢個開關

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史︰例如，呢個就係海馬體建立咗一個

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恐懼記憶之後嘅樣

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呢張相藍色部分

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就係密集嘅腦細胞

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而呢啲綠色嘅腦細胞

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就係參與

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形成恐懼記憶

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你哋宜家睇到嘅

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係恐懼快速形成嘅過程

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正確啲嚟講係記憶嘅橫切面

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劉︰我哋一直討論緊嘅開關

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需要快

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佢唔可以花幾分鐘或者幾個鐘去做到

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佢應該以大腦嘅速度去做，即係以幾微秒為限

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史︰劉，咁你點睇？

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我哋可唔可以用，例如藥物

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去啟動或者熄咗大腦細胞？

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劉︰唔得。因為藥物會擴散，好麻煩

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而且藥物作用係永遠嘅

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所以我哋唔能夠用藥物即時控制記憶

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咁史蒂夫，用電控制大腦你覺得點？

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史︰電非常之快

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但係我哋未必可以將電帶到

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負責某個記憶嘅細胞當中

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我哋甚至乎會灼傷大腦

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劉︰哦。 的確係

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所以我哋應該搵更好嘅方法

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例如嘗試以光速進入大腦細胞

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史︰正因為光本身就有光速

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或者我哋可以用光

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嚟到激活同熄咗記憶

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劉︰光速非常快

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而且由於正常嘅大腦細胞

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對光冇反應

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因此嗰啲對光有反應嘅細胞

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就係含有光敏感開關嘅細胞

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為咗令呢啲細胞對激光有反應，我哋首先要呃腦細胞

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劉：你哋冇聽錯

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我哋嘗試將激光射入大腦

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（笑聲）

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我哋靠嘅技術就係光遺傳學

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光遺傳學畀咗光敏感開關我哋

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令我哋能夠啟動或者熄咗腦細胞

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而呢個光敏感開關個名叫做光敏感通道

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就係黏著腦細胞嘅綠色小點

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你哋可以將光敏感通道當做一種對光敏感

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可以俾人安裝入腦細胞嘅開關

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所以，宜家我哋可以簡單襟個開關

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啟動或熄咗腦細胞

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喺呢個情況，我哋用光脈衝嚟開開關

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劉︰我哋將呢種光敏感通道嘅光敏感開關

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擺喺生物感應器上

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並注入大腦

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當一個記憶形成嘅時候

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有份形成嗰個記憶嘅細胞

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都會有呢個光敏感開關

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咁樣我哋就可以

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通過照射咁樣嘅激光，嚟控制呢啲細胞

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史︰宜家就係測試所有嘢嘅時間

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我哋能夠做嘅就係將老鼠

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放入一個咁嘅盒

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然後輕微點擊老鼠足部

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令老鼠對呢個盒產生一個恐懼記憶

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令佢哋知道盒入面有唔好嘅嘢發生

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喺老鼠嘅海馬體裏面

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形成呢一個記憶嘅活躍細胞

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都會有光敏感通道

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劉︰當你有一隻老鼠咁細

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你會覺得成個世界都喺度想捉你

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所以，你最好嘅防衛

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係收埋自己、唔被發現

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當老鼠處於恐懼狀態

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就會表現出呢一種典型行為

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即係呆喺盒嘅角落

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唔郁

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呢一種狀態我哋稱之為「靜止」

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如果老鼠記得個盒有唔好嘅事發生

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當我哋將佢哋放返同一個盒時

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佢哋本能反應就係靜止唔郁

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咁係因為佢哋唔想俾盒裡面

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任何潛在嘅威脅物發現

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史︰因此，你哋可以將「靜止」諗成

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你喺街行，腦裡面諗著自己嘅嘢

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然後幾乎要撞到你嘅

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前女友或者前男友

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喺呢兩秒裏面

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你會諗「我做咩好？打招呼？

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同佢握手？ 抑或轉身走？

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我係咪應該坐喺度扮唔存在？」

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呢啲突然喺腦海出現嘅諗法令你無法控制自己嘅身體

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令你暫時流露出孤獨無助嘅表情

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劉︰但係，如果你將老鼠放喺一個完全唔一樣嘅

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新籠裡面，好似跟著落嚟呢個咁

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老鼠就唔會驚呢個籠

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因為老鼠冇理由去驚呢個新環境

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但如果我哋將老鼠放喺新籠裡面

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同時用我哋用激光

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啟動恐懼記憶嘅話，會發生啲咩？

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我哋係咪可以喺一個完全唔一樣嘅環境裏面

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喚醒返老鼠對第一個籠嘅恐懼記憶？

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史︰呢個係價值百萬美元嘅實驗

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宜家我哋講返當日嘅記憶

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我記得嗰日波士頓紅襪隊贏咗比賽

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嗰日又係一個生機勃勃嘅春天日子

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極適合喺河邊散步

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同埋去 North End

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買一啲甜酥卷

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另一方面，我同劉

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喺一個冇窗、全黑嘅房裡面

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眼球郁都唔動，因為隻眼郁嘅話離遠睇似係眨眼

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所以我哋眼都冇眨咁望著電腦螢幕

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我哋喺度望緊隻老鼠，嘗試第一次用

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我哋嘅技術去啟動一個記憶

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劉︰呢個就係我哋睇到嘅

00:08:52.369 --> 00:08:54.571
當我哋第一次將老鼠放入呢個籠

00:08:54.571 --> 00:08:57.684
老鼠會探索，聞嘢，周圍走

00:08:57.684 --> 00:08:59.373
做自己嘅嘢

00:08:59.373 --> 00:09:01.074
因為老鼠

00:09:01.074 --> 00:09:03.053
天生係好好奇嘅動物

00:09:03.053 --> 00:09:05.675
佢哋想知道，呢個新嘅籠有乜嘢

00:09:05.675 --> 00:09:07.206
老鼠好得意

00:09:07.206 --> 00:09:10.657
但當我哋啟動激光嘅一刻，就好似你宜家睇到咁

00:09:10.657 --> 00:09:13.689
老鼠即刻進入靜止狀態

00:09:13.689 --> 00:09:18.120
老鼠呆咗，唔郁

00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:19.748
好明顯，老鼠定咗型

00:09:19.748 --> 00:09:22.331
睇上嚟，我哋做到將第一個籠嘅恐懼記憶帶到去

00:09:22.331 --> 00:09:24.395
全新環境

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當我哋睇到結果，史蒂夫同我

00:09:29.874 --> 00:09:32.007
都震驚咗，就好似隻老鼠一樣

00:09:32.007 --> 00:09:33.269
（笑聲）

00:09:33.269 --> 00:09:36.576
實驗完咗之後，我哋離開間房

00:09:36.576 --> 00:09:38.329
冇講過嘢

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經過好長又尷尬嘅一段時間

00:09:41.725 --> 00:09:43.937
史蒂夫終於打破沉默

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史︰我當時話「我哋嘅技術係得嘅？ 」

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劉：我話「係，真係得咗！ 」

00:09:49.252 --> 00:09:51.369
我哋對結果都非常激動

00:09:51.369 --> 00:09:53.993
然後我哋將個發現

00:09:53.993 --> 00:09:55.689
刊登喺自然期刊度

00:09:55.689 --> 00:09:58.160
自從發表咗我哋嘅研究之後

00:09:58.160 --> 00:10:00.575
我哋喺網上

00:10:00.575 --> 00:10:02.700
收到好多留言

00:10:02.700 --> 00:10:06.450
我哋可以睇其中一啲

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[天啊。最後…有咁多嘢！虛幻科技、神經控制、視覺夢想嘅再現、神經編碼、「寫同重寫記憶 」、 精神疾病。 將來係咁好嘅。 ]

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史︰首先你會注意到啲人

00:10:10.907 --> 00:10:13.810
對呢項研究有好強烈嘅意見

00:10:13.810 --> 00:10:16.364
宜家，我開始非常認同

00:10:16.364 --> 00:10:17.180
第一個人嘅樂觀睇法

00:10:17.180 --> 00:10:19.988
因為相對於Morgan Freeman 嘅評論

00:10:19.988 --> 00:10:22.111
呢個係我有生以嚟

00:10:22.111 --> 00:10:23.661
聽到最好嘅讚美說話

00:10:23.661 --> 00:10:25.857
（笑聲）

00:10:25.857 --> 00:10:27.808
但係就好似你哋睇到嘅一樣，呢個並唔係唯一嘅意見

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[ 太不可思議啦…如果佢哋可以喺幾年內將呢種技術應用到人身上會點？ 天啊！我哋命中註定係咁。]

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劉︰如果我哋睇睇第二個留言

00:10:31.290 --> 00:10:33.397
我諗我哋全部人都覺得嗰個人講嘅嘢

00:10:33.397 --> 00:10:35.772
冇咁正面

00:10:35.772 --> 00:10:37.957
但呢樣都提醒我哋

00:10:37.957 --> 00:10:40.143
雖然我哋宜家仍然以老鼠做實驗對象

00:10:40.143 --> 00:10:43.660
但我哋確實應該開始思考同討論

00:10:43.660 --> 00:10:46.651
記憶控制

00:10:46.651 --> 00:10:48.599
帶嚟嘅道德爭議

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史︰透過第三個留言

00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:52.773
我想話畀你哋聽一個我哋最近喺實驗室

00:10:52.773 --> 00:10:55.201
開展嘅項目，叫「盜夢空間」

00:10:55.201 --> 00:10:58.444
[ 「佢哋應該整一部關於呢樣嘢嘅電影。 當佢哋將記憶植入人嘅意識裏面，佢哋就能夠控制人，從而達到個人利益。 我哋會叫佢做「盜夢空間」。 ]

00:10:58.444 --> 00:11:02.178
所以我哋開始諗，雖然我哋可以重啟一個記憶

00:11:02.178 --> 00:11:05.130
但如果我哋唔小心改造咗個記憶，咁點呢？

00:11:05.130 --> 00:11:08.163
我哋會唔會將個記憶變成一個錯誤嘅記憶？

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劉︰所有記憶都係複雜而且有動態變化

00:11:12.262 --> 00:11:15.241
但我哋可以簡單將記憶當成係

00:11:15.241 --> 00:11:16.643
一齣電影

00:11:16.643 --> 00:11:19.313
正如我哋一路所講嘅，我哋可以控制

00:11:19.313 --> 00:11:21.244
電影嘅播放掣

00:11:21.244 --> 00:11:25.829
所以我哋可以隨時隨地播呢部電影

00:11:25.829 --> 00:11:28.360
但有冇可能我哋可以進入大腦

00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:31.220
編輯呢部電影

00:11:31.220 --> 00:11:34.116
令佢同原本有唔同？

00:11:34.116 --> 00:11:36.294
係，我哋可以做到

00:11:36.294 --> 00:11:38.424
我哋需要做嘅只係

00:11:38.424 --> 00:11:42.699
用我哋之前用過嘅激光，重新啟動一個記憶

00:11:42.699 --> 00:11:46.138
但係如果我哋同時將新嘅資訊

00:11:46.138 --> 00:11:50.112
擺落去舊嘅記憶當中

00:11:50.112 --> 00:11:52.550
舊嘅記憶會改變

00:11:52.550 --> 00:11:56.213
就好似整混合錄音咁

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史︰咁我哋點樣做呢？

00:11:59.071 --> 00:12:01.028
與其喺大腦搵到恐懼記憶

00:12:01.028 --> 00:12:02.744
我哋可以喺動物裏面搵

00:12:02.744 --> 00:12:05.677
即係我哋將動物放入一個咁樣嘅藍色籠裡面

00:12:05.677 --> 00:12:08.171
我哋喺動物個腦裏面搵返代表藍色籠嘅腦細胞

00:12:08.171 --> 00:12:10.244
然後我哋令呢啲腦細胞對光有反應

00:12:10.244 --> 00:12:12.365
同我哋之前做嘅一模一樣

00:12:12.365 --> 00:12:14.489
第二日，我哋可以將動物放入

00:12:14.489 --> 00:12:17.188
一個佢哋從來冇遇過嘅紅色籠

00:12:17.188 --> 00:12:19.214
我哋可以向佢哋大腦照射激光

00:12:19.214 --> 00:12:21.323
重啟佢哋對藍色籠嘅記憶

00:12:21.323 --> 00:12:23.067
咁當動物諗返藍色籠嘅嘢時

00:12:23.067 --> 00:12:24.961
我哋對佢哋施加幾次輕微電擊

00:12:24.961 --> 00:12:27.604
會點呢？

00:12:27.604 --> 00:12:30.297
我哋就嘗試人為咁

00:12:30.297 --> 00:12:32.212
令藍色籠嘅記憶同電擊關連起嚟

00:12:32.212 --> 00:12:33.715
我哋想將兩樣嘢聯連埋一齊

00:12:35.494 --> 00:12:37.037
為咗證實我哋成功

00:12:37.037 --> 00:12:38.365
我哋再將老鼠

00:12:38.365 --> 00:12:40.311
放入藍色籠

00:12:40.311 --> 00:12:43.049
我哋只係重啟老鼠對藍色籠嘅記憶

00:12:43.049 --> 00:12:45.216
但老鼠卻感覺到足部有微弱電擊

00:12:45.216 --> 00:12:47.586
然後老鼠突然靜止唔郁

00:12:47.586 --> 00:12:50.788
就算，實際上冇電擊都好

00:12:50.788 --> 00:12:53.790
但老鼠始終記返起被電擊

00:12:53.790 --> 00:12:55.652
因此，老鼠形成咗一個錯誤嘅記憶

00:12:55.652 --> 00:12:57.663
因為技術上嚟講，佢

00:12:57.663 --> 00:12:58.917
驚錯咗一個環境

00:12:58.917 --> 00:13:01.266
而嗰個環境實際上冇電擊發生

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劉︰目前為止，我哋只係討論咗

00:13:03.719 --> 00:13:06.085
呢種用光控制嘅開掣

00:13:06.085 --> 00:13:09.373
其實我哋都有光控制嘅閂掣

00:13:09.373 --> 00:13:11.453
而且我哋可以好容易想像到

00:13:11.453 --> 00:13:13.931
通過安裝呢種光控制嘅閂掣

00:13:13.931 --> 00:13:19.519
我哋可以隨時隨地閂咗一個記憶

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00:13:19.519 --> 00:13:21.733
我哋今日所講嘅嘢

00:13:21.733 --> 00:13:26.410
都係基於神經科學一條哲學性嘅原理

00:13:26.410 --> 00:13:30.528
就係，思想睇起嚟好神秘

00:13:30.528 --> 00:13:34.173
但佢實際上係由物質組成、可以俾我哋利用嘅嘢

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00:13:34.173 --> 00:13:35.648
史︰

00:13:35.648 --> 00:13:37.229
我見到一個世界，我哋可以重新啟動

00:13:37.229 --> 00:13:39.345
任何我哋鍾意嘅記憶

00:13:39.345 --> 00:13:42.643
我仲見到一個世界，我哋可以抹走我哋唔想要嘅記憶

00:13:42.643 --> 00:13:44.579
宜家，我甚至見到，記憶編輯

00:13:44.579 --> 00:13:46.118
已經成為現實中嘅一部分

00:13:46.118 --> 00:13:47.823
因為我哋生活嘅時代

00:13:47.823 --> 00:13:50.048
已經有可能將科幻小說裡邊嘅問題

00:13:50.048 --> 00:13:52.468
通過實驗將佢哋帶到嚟現實世界

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劉︰宜家，我哋實驗室嘅人員

00:13:54.351 --> 00:13:56.737
同全世界嘅人員

00:13:56.737 --> 00:14:00.554
都用緊類似嘅方法啟動或者編輯記憶

00:14:00.554 --> 00:14:04.395
無論嗰啲記憶係舊、係新、係正面、係負面

00:14:04.395 --> 00:14:07.067
總之所有類型嘅記憶——等我哋能夠了解

00:14:07.067 --> 00:14:08.931
記憶係點樣運作嘅

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00:14:08.931 --> 00:14:10.715
史︰例如，我哋實驗室嘅一個團隊

00:14:10.715 --> 00:14:13.353
發現咗形成恐懼記憶嘅腦細胞

00:14:13.353 --> 00:14:16.128
並將嗰啲腦細胞轉化成快樂記憶，就好似嗰個咁

00:14:16.128 --> 00:14:19.190
嗰個就係我想講嘅編輯過程

00:14:19.190 --> 00:14:21.002
宜家，實驗室人員甚至可以喺雄性老鼠當中

00:14:21.002 --> 00:14:23.503
啟動佢哋對雌性老鼠嘅記憶

00:14:23.503 --> 00:14:26.498
有流傳話隻老鼠經歷得好愉快

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00:14:26.498 --> 00:14:30.615
劉︰我哋正生活喺一個好開心嘅時刻

00:14:30.615 --> 00:14:34.420
因為呢一刻科學除咗受制於我哋嘅想像力之外，就再冇限制

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00:14:37.607 --> 00:14:39.754
史︰最後，我哋做到啲咩呢？

00:14:39.754 --> 00:14:41.725
我哋點樣繼續發展呢一個技術？

00:14:41.725 --> 00:14:43.562
呢啲問題唔應該剩係留返畀

00:14:43.562 --> 00:14:45.237
實驗室嘅人解答

00:14:45.237 --> 00:14:47.809
我哋今日演講嘅目的就係令所有人

00:14:47.809 --> 00:14:50.128
知道現代神經科學有可能嘅事

00:14:51.512 --> 00:14:53.022
但宜家重要嘅，係

00:14:53.022 --> 00:14:56.354
令所有人都參與個討論

00:14:56.354 --> 00:14:58.683
等我哋好似一個團隊咁一齊諗下神經科學可以做到啲咩

00:14:58.683 --> 00:15:01.157
我哋可以點樣繼續往前走

00:15:01.157 --> 00:15:03.255
因為劉同我都認為我哋所有人面前都有

00:15:03.255 --> 00:15:05.791
一啲重大決定要做

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00:15:05.791 --> 00:15:06.916
多謝
劉︰多謝

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00:15:06.916 --> 00:15:08.550
（鼓掌）