0:00:00.371,0:00:01.927
史：諗返我研究生第一年

0:00:01.927,0:00:03.931
當時我攤喺床

0:00:03.931,0:00:06.231
食好多班傑利雪糕

0:00:06.231,0:00:07.915
睇無聊電視

0:00:07.915,0:00:11.142
或者聽 Taylor Swift 嘅歌

0:00:11.142,0:00:12.883
嗰時我啱啱分咗手

0:00:12.883,0:00:14.330
（笑聲）

0:00:14.330,0:00:16.526
所以，第一次長時間，我喺度

0:00:16.526,0:00:20.342
不斷回憶關於呢個人

0:00:20.342,0:00:22.835
我希望能夠擺脫呢種自我苦惱

0:00:22.835,0:00:25.368
內臟似俾掏空一樣嘅感覺

0:00:25.368,0:00:27.651
宜家，我係神經生物學家

0:00:27.651,0:00:30.053
因此我知道對舊情人嘅記憶

0:00:30.053,0:00:33.193
同記憶中唔舒服嘅感覺

0:00:33.193,0:00:35.827
大部分係由獨立嘅腦部系統所介導

0:00:35.827,0:00:38.192
所以，我喺度諗，如果我哋可以進入大腦

0:00:38.192,0:00:40.282
剪走嗰種令人作嘔嘅感覺

0:00:40.282,0:00:43.252
但仍然保持對舊情人嘅完整記憶，係會點？

0:00:43.252,0:00:45.663
然後我認識到，呢個諗法目前嚟講仲係做唔到

0:00:45.663,0:00:48.456
咁我哋係咪可以由進入大腦、尋找單一記憶

0:00:48.456,0:00:51.089
著手？

0:00:51.089,0:00:53.603
我哋可唔可以將記憶帶返嚟現實生活

0:00:53.603,0:00:57.471
甚至操作記憶？

0:00:57.471,0:00:59.700
但到呢一刻，我真心希望一個人

0:00:59.700,0:01:01.755
冇睇到呢場演講

0:01:01.755,0:01:05.696
（笑聲）

0:01:05.696,0:01:08.985
所以篇講稿有陷阱，有陷阱！

0:01:08.985,0:01:11.773
呢啲諗法或者令你哋諗起電影《全面回憶》

0:01:11.773,0:01:13.747
《暖暖內含光》

0:01:13.747,0:01:15.050
或者《盜夢空間》

0:01:15.050,0:01:16.626
但同我哋實驗室合作嘅明星

0:01:16.626,0:01:18.569
位位都係星光熠熠

0:01:18.569,0:01:20.469
劉：但呢啲明星只不過係實驗室嘅老鼠

0:01:20.469,0:01:21.597
（笑聲）

0:01:21.597,0:01:24.751
身為神經生物學家，我哋喺實驗室用老鼠

0:01:24.751,0:01:28.161
去睇下記憶點樣運作

0:01:28.161,0:01:30.730
今日，我哋希望令你相信

0:01:30.730,0:01:33.946
宜家我哋能夠以光速啟動

0:01:33.946,0:01:36.116
大腦嘅記憶

0:01:36.116,0:01:39.222
為咗令你哋相信，你哋只需要簡單做兩樣嘢

0:01:39.222,0:01:42.732
首先，你搵同埋標記大腦裏邊嘅一個記憶

0:01:42.732,0:01:46.362
然後用開關激活個記憶

0:01:46.362,0:01:47.807
就係咁簡單

0:01:47.807,0:01:49.629
（笑聲）

0:01:49.629,0:01:51.474
史︰你哋信未？

0:01:51.474,0:01:55.195
實際上喺大腦裏面搵一個記憶並唔係咁容易

0:01:55.195,0:01:57.998
劉︰冇錯

0:01:57.998,0:02:00.402
呢樣比喺禾稈裏面搵一支針仲難

0:02:00.402,0:02:02.991
因為至少支針你哋

0:02:02.991,0:02:05.491
仲可以實在咁掂到

0:02:05.491,0:02:07.468
但記憶唔係

0:02:07.468,0:02:10.506
而且，大腦裏面嘅細胞數量

0:02:10.506,0:02:15.572
多過禾稈裡面嘅雜草數目

0:02:15.572,0:02:18.451
的確，個項目睇起嚟幾令人心灰意冷

0:02:18.451,0:02:22.130
但係幸運嘅係，我哋由大腦自身獲得幫助

0:02:22.130,0:02:24.585
所以我哋要做嘅就只係

0:02:24.585,0:02:26.578
畀大腦形成一個記憶

0:02:26.578,0:02:30.408
然後大腦會話畀我哋聽邊啲細胞

0:02:30.408,0:02:32.174
參與形成記憶

0:02:32.174,0:02:34.531
史︰咁當我諗返前度嘅時候

0:02:34.531,0:02:36.625
大腦會有咩變化？

0:02:36.625,0:02:39.027
如果你唔講人道主義

0:02:39.027,0:02:40.695
將我嘅大腦切片

0:02:40.695,0:02:42.713
你會發現當我諗返前度時

0:02:42.713,0:02:45.891
有非常多嘅大腦區域會被刺激

0:02:45.891,0:02:48.803
而其中一個強烈活躍嘅區域

0:02:48.803,0:02:50.810
係海馬體

0:02:50.810,0:02:53.265
一個幾十年嚟被認為

0:02:53.265,0:02:55.681
會處理近期同親切記憶嘅區域

0:02:55.681,0:02:58.255
所以佢都係一個理想地方

0:02:58.255,0:03:01.040
畀人可以進入、尋找同啟動記憶

0:03:01.040,0:03:03.434
劉︰當你令用顯微鏡觀察海馬體

0:03:03.434,0:03:05.782
唔單止會見到好多細胞

0:03:05.782,0:03:08.813
我哋仲能夠搵到嗰啲參與

0:03:08.813,0:03:10.289
某個記憶嘅細胞

0:03:10.289,0:03:12.907
因為當細胞活動時

0:03:12.907,0:03:14.371
例如當細胞建立某種記憶時

0:03:14.371,0:03:18.128
細胞會留低痕跡

0:03:18.128,0:03:20.830
我哋就可以透過痕跡知道最近邊啲細胞啟動過

0:03:20.830,0:03:22.990
史︰呢樣就好似夜晚寫字樓著咗燈

0:03:22.990,0:03:25.938
你會知道有人做緊嘢

0:03:25.938,0:03:29.226
同樣細胞都有咁嘅燈，不過叫生物感應器

0:03:29.226,0:03:31.180
當細胞做緊嘢嘅時候

0:03:31.180,0:03:33.315
生物感應器會著

0:03:33.315,0:03:35.191
生物感應器就好似盞燈一樣

0:03:35.191,0:03:37.169
畀我哋知道細胞活動

0:03:37.169,0:03:39.998
劉︰所以我哋將生物感應器

0:03:39.998,0:03:43.145
連接到開關，控制呢啲細胞

0:03:43.145,0:03:47.045
我哋將呢個開關擺喺一個改造過嘅病毒裏面

0:03:47.045,0:03:49.633
將病毒注入老鼠大腦

0:03:49.633,0:03:52.267
於是當一個記憶形成嗰陣

0:03:52.267,0:03:54.615
任何參與在內嘅細胞

0:03:54.615,0:03:57.357
都會裝上呢個開關

0:03:57.357,0:03:58.982
史︰例如，呢個就係海馬體建立咗一個

0:03:58.982,0:04:01.822
恐懼記憶之後嘅樣

0:04:01.822,0:04:03.962
呢張相藍色部分

0:04:03.962,0:04:05.914
就係密集嘅腦細胞

0:04:05.914,0:04:07.459
而呢啲綠色嘅腦細胞

0:04:07.459,0:04:09.555
就係參與

0:04:09.555,0:04:11.398
形成恐懼記憶

0:04:11.398,0:04:13.377
你哋宜家睇到嘅

0:04:13.377,0:04:15.764
係恐懼快速形成嘅過程

0:04:15.764,0:04:19.261
正確啲嚟講係記憶嘅橫切面

0:04:19.261,0:04:21.669
劉︰我哋一直討論緊嘅開關

0:04:21.669,0:04:24.639
需要快

0:04:24.639,0:04:27.218
佢唔可以花幾分鐘或者幾個鐘去做到

0:04:27.218,0:04:31.482
佢應該以大腦嘅速度去做，即係以幾微秒為限

0:04:31.482,0:04:32.912
史︰劉，咁你點睇？

0:04:32.912,0:04:35.514
我哋可唔可以用，例如藥物

0:04:35.514,0:04:37.352
去啟動或者熄咗大腦細胞？

0:04:37.352,0:04:41.415
劉︰唔得。因為藥物會擴散，好麻煩

0:04:41.415,0:04:44.423
而且藥物作用係永遠嘅

0:04:44.423,0:04:48.072
所以我哋唔能夠用藥物即時控制記憶

0:04:48.072,0:04:52.366
咁史蒂夫，用電控制大腦你覺得點？

0:04:52.366,0:04:54.671
史︰電非常之快

0:04:54.671,0:04:56.410
但係我哋未必可以將電帶到

0:04:56.410,0:04:58.764
負責某個記憶嘅細胞當中

0:04:58.764,0:05:00.642
我哋甚至乎會灼傷大腦

0:05:00.642,0:05:03.837
劉︰哦。 的確係

0:05:03.837,0:05:06.448
所以我哋應該搵更好嘅方法

0:05:06.448,0:05:09.743
例如嘗試以光速進入大腦細胞

0:05:09.743,0:05:14.829
史︰正因為光本身就有光速

0:05:14.829,0:05:18.312
或者我哋可以用光

0:05:18.312,0:05:19.809
嚟到激活同熄咗記憶

0:05:19.809,0:05:21.164
劉︰光速非常快

0:05:21.164,0:05:23.049
而且由於正常嘅大腦細胞

0:05:23.049,0:05:24.637
對光冇反應

0:05:24.637,0:05:26.595
因此嗰啲對光有反應嘅細胞

0:05:26.595,0:05:29.059
就係含有光敏感開關嘅細胞

0:05:29.059,0:05:31.005
為咗令呢啲細胞對激光有反應，我哋首先要呃腦細胞

0:05:32.467,0:05:33.537
劉：你哋冇聽錯

0:05:33.537,0:05:35.669
我哋嘗試將激光射入大腦

0:05:35.669,0:05:37.414
（笑聲）

0:05:37.414,0:05:40.738
我哋靠嘅技術就係光遺傳學

0:05:40.738,0:05:44.020
光遺傳學畀咗光敏感開關我哋

0:05:44.020,0:05:45.528
令我哋能夠啟動或者熄咗腦細胞

0:05:45.528,0:05:48.045
而呢個光敏感開關個名叫做光敏感通道

0:05:48.045,0:05:50.582
就係黏著腦細胞嘅綠色小點

0:05:50.582,0:05:53.881
你哋可以將光敏感通道當做一種對光敏感

0:05:53.881,0:05:56.508
可以俾人安裝入腦細胞嘅開關

0:05:56.508,0:05:58.422
所以，宜家我哋可以簡單襟個開關

0:05:58.422,0:06:01.435
啟動或熄咗腦細胞

0:06:01.435,0:06:03.903
喺呢個情況，我哋用光脈衝嚟開開關

0:06:03.903,0:06:07.689
劉︰我哋將呢種光敏感通道嘅光敏感開關

0:06:07.689,0:06:09.897
擺喺生物感應器上

0:06:09.897,0:06:12.352
並注入大腦

0:06:12.352,0:06:15.563
當一個記憶形成嘅時候

0:06:15.563,0:06:17.790
有份形成嗰個記憶嘅細胞

0:06:17.790,0:06:21.274
都會有呢個光敏感開關

0:06:21.274,0:06:23.675
咁樣我哋就可以

0:06:23.675,0:06:27.939
通過照射咁樣嘅激光，嚟控制呢啲細胞

0:06:27.939,0:06:30.803
史︰宜家就係測試所有嘢嘅時間

0:06:30.803,0:06:32.938
我哋能夠做嘅就係將老鼠

0:06:32.938,0:06:35.866
放入一個咁嘅盒

0:06:35.866,0:06:38.206
然後輕微點擊老鼠足部

0:06:38.206,0:06:40.241
令老鼠對呢個盒產生一個恐懼記憶

0:06:40.241,0:06:42.220
令佢哋知道盒入面有唔好嘅嘢發生

0:06:42.220,0:06:44.562
喺老鼠嘅海馬體裏面

0:06:44.562,0:06:47.493
形成呢一個記憶嘅活躍細胞

0:06:47.493,0:06:50.376
都會有光敏感通道

0:06:50.376,0:06:53.393
劉︰當你有一隻老鼠咁細

0:06:53.393,0:06:56.988
你會覺得成個世界都喺度想捉你

0:06:56.988,0:06:58.736
所以，你最好嘅防衛

0:06:58.736,0:07:01.218
係收埋自己、唔被發現

0:07:01.218,0:07:03.251
當老鼠處於恐懼狀態

0:07:03.251,0:07:04.777
就會表現出呢一種典型行為

0:07:04.777,0:07:06.546
即係呆喺盒嘅角落

0:07:06.546,0:07:09.664
唔郁

0:07:09.664,0:07:12.959
呢一種狀態我哋稱之為「靜止」

0:07:12.959,0:07:17.253
如果老鼠記得個盒有唔好嘅事發生

0:07:17.253,0:07:19.876
當我哋將佢哋放返同一個盒時

0:07:19.876,0:07:21.680
佢哋本能反應就係靜止唔郁

0:07:21.680,0:07:23.965
咁係因為佢哋唔想俾盒裡面

0:07:23.965,0:07:26.660
任何潛在嘅威脅物發現

0:07:26.660,0:07:28.015
史︰因此，你哋可以將「靜止」諗成

0:07:28.015,0:07:30.230
你喺街行，腦裡面諗著自己嘅嘢

0:07:30.230,0:07:31.955
然後幾乎要撞到你嘅

0:07:31.955,0:07:34.147
前女友或者前男友

0:07:34.147,0:07:36.281
喺呢兩秒裏面

0:07:36.281,0:07:38.157
你會諗「我做咩好？打招呼？

0:07:38.157,0:07:39.525
同佢握手？ 抑或轉身走？

0:07:39.525,0:07:41.554
我係咪應該坐喺度扮唔存在？」

0:07:41.554,0:07:44.738
呢啲突然喺腦海出現嘅諗法令你無法控制自己嘅身體

0:07:44.738,0:07:47.484
令你暫時流露出孤獨無助嘅表情

0:07:47.484,0:07:50.775
劉︰但係，如果你將老鼠放喺一個完全唔一樣嘅

0:07:50.775,0:07:53.936
新籠裡面，好似跟著落嚟呢個咁

0:07:53.936,0:07:56.083
老鼠就唔會驚呢個籠

0:07:56.083,0:08:00.812
因為老鼠冇理由去驚呢個新環境

0:08:00.812,0:08:03.992
但如果我哋將老鼠放喺新籠裡面

0:08:03.992,0:08:07.603
同時用我哋用激光

0:08:07.603,0:08:10.282
啟動恐懼記憶嘅話，會發生啲咩？

0:08:10.282,0:08:13.136
我哋係咪可以喺一個完全唔一樣嘅環境裏面

0:08:13.136,0:08:17.133
喚醒返老鼠對第一個籠嘅恐懼記憶？

0:08:17.133,0:08:19.868
史︰呢個係價值百萬美元嘅實驗

0:08:19.868,0:08:22.781
宜家我哋講返當日嘅記憶

0:08:22.781,0:08:24.964
我記得嗰日波士頓紅襪隊贏咗比賽

0:08:24.964,0:08:26.873
嗰日又係一個生機勃勃嘅春天日子

0:08:26.873,0:08:28.690
極適合喺河邊散步

0:08:28.690,0:08:31.024
同埋去 North End

0:08:31.024,0:08:33.184
買一啲甜酥卷

0:08:33.184,0:08:36.286
另一方面，我同劉

0:08:36.286,0:08:39.115
喺一個冇窗、全黑嘅房裡面

0:08:39.115,0:08:42.776
眼球郁都唔動，因為隻眼郁嘅話離遠睇似係眨眼

0:08:42.776,0:08:45.242
所以我哋眼都冇眨咁望著電腦螢幕

0:08:45.242,0:08:47.798
我哋喺度望緊隻老鼠，嘗試第一次用

0:08:47.798,0:08:49.681
我哋嘅技術去啟動一個記憶

0:08:49.681,0:08:52.369
劉︰呢個就係我哋睇到嘅

0:08:52.369,0:08:54.571
當我哋第一次將老鼠放入呢個籠

0:08:54.571,0:08:57.684
老鼠會探索，聞嘢，周圍走

0:08:57.684,0:08:59.373
做自己嘅嘢

0:08:59.373,0:09:01.074
因為老鼠

0:09:01.074,0:09:03.053
天生係好好奇嘅動物

0:09:03.053,0:09:05.675
佢哋想知道，呢個新嘅籠有乜嘢

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老鼠好得意

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但當我哋啟動激光嘅一刻，就好似你宜家睇到咁

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老鼠即刻進入靜止狀態

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老鼠呆咗，唔郁

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好明顯，老鼠定咗型

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睇上嚟，我哋做到將第一個籠嘅恐懼記憶帶到去

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全新環境

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當我哋睇到結果，史蒂夫同我

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都震驚咗，就好似隻老鼠一樣

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（笑聲）

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實驗完咗之後，我哋離開間房

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冇講過嘢

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經過好長又尷尬嘅一段時間

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史蒂夫終於打破沉默

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史︰我當時話「我哋嘅技術係得嘅？ 」

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劉：我話「係，真係得咗！ 」

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我哋對結果都非常激動

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然後我哋將個發現

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刊登喺自然期刊度

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自從發表咗我哋嘅研究之後

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我哋喺網上

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收到好多留言

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我哋可以睇其中一啲

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[天啊。最後…有咁多嘢！虛幻科技、神經控制、視覺夢想嘅再現、神經編碼、「寫同重寫記憶 」、 精神疾病。 將來係咁好嘅。 ]

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史︰首先你會注意到啲人

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對呢項研究有好強烈嘅意見

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宜家，我開始非常認同

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第一個人嘅樂觀睇法

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因為相對於Morgan Freeman 嘅評論

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呢個係我有生以嚟

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聽到最好嘅讚美說話

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（笑聲）

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但係就好似你哋睇到嘅一樣，呢個並唔係唯一嘅意見

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[ 太不可思議啦…如果佢哋可以喺幾年內將呢種技術應用到人身上會點？ 天啊！我哋命中註定係咁。]

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劉︰如果我哋睇睇第二個留言

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我諗我哋全部人都覺得嗰個人講嘅嘢

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冇咁正面

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但呢樣都提醒我哋

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雖然我哋宜家仍然以老鼠做實驗對象

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但我哋確實應該開始思考同討論

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記憶控制

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帶嚟嘅道德爭議

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史︰透過第三個留言

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我想話畀你哋聽一個我哋最近喺實驗室

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開展嘅項目，叫「盜夢空間」

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[ 「佢哋應該整一部關於呢樣嘢嘅電影。 當佢哋將記憶植入人嘅意識裏面，佢哋就能夠控制人，從而達到個人利益。 我哋會叫佢做「盜夢空間」。 ]

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所以我哋開始諗，雖然我哋可以重啟一個記憶

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但如果我哋唔小心改造咗個記憶，咁點呢？

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我哋會唔會將個記憶變成一個錯誤嘅記憶？

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劉︰所有記憶都係複雜而且有動態變化

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但我哋可以簡單將記憶當成係

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一齣電影

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正如我哋一路所講嘅，我哋可以控制

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電影嘅播放掣

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所以我哋可以隨時隨地播呢部電影

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但有冇可能我哋可以進入大腦

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編輯呢部電影

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令佢同原本有唔同？

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係，我哋可以做到

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我哋需要做嘅只係

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用我哋之前用過嘅激光，重新啟動一個記憶

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但係如果我哋同時將新嘅資訊

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擺落去舊嘅記憶當中

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舊嘅記憶會改變

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就好似整混合錄音咁

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史︰咁我哋點樣做呢？

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與其喺大腦搵到恐懼記憶

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我哋可以喺動物裏面搵

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即係我哋將動物放入一個咁樣嘅藍色籠裡面

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我哋喺動物個腦裏面搵返代表藍色籠嘅腦細胞

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然後我哋令呢啲腦細胞對光有反應

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同我哋之前做嘅一模一樣

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第二日，我哋可以將動物放入

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一個佢哋從來冇遇過嘅紅色籠

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我哋可以向佢哋大腦照射激光

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重啟佢哋對藍色籠嘅記憶

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咁當動物諗返藍色籠嘅嘢時

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我哋對佢哋施加幾次輕微電擊

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會點呢？

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我哋就嘗試人為咁

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令藍色籠嘅記憶同電擊關連起嚟

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我哋想將兩樣嘢聯連埋一齊

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為咗證實我哋成功

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我哋再將老鼠

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放入藍色籠

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我哋只係重啟老鼠對藍色籠嘅記憶

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但老鼠卻感覺到足部有微弱電擊

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然後老鼠突然靜止唔郁

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就算，實際上冇電擊都好

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但老鼠始終記返起被電擊

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因此，老鼠形成咗一個錯誤嘅記憶

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因為技術上嚟講，佢

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驚錯咗一個環境

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而嗰個環境實際上冇電擊發生

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劉︰目前為止，我哋只係討論咗

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呢種用光控制嘅開掣

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其實我哋都有光控制嘅閂掣

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而且我哋可以好容易想像到

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通過安裝呢種光控制嘅閂掣

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我哋可以隨時隨地閂咗一個記憶

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我哋今日所講嘅嘢

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都係基於神經科學一條哲學性嘅原理

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就係，思想睇起嚟好神秘

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但佢實際上係由物質組成、可以俾我哋利用嘅嘢

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史︰

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我見到一個世界，我哋可以重新啟動

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任何我哋鍾意嘅記憶

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我仲見到一個世界，我哋可以抹走我哋唔想要嘅記憶

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宜家，我甚至見到，記憶編輯

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已經成為現實中嘅一部分

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因為我哋生活嘅時代

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已經有可能將科幻小說裡邊嘅問題

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通過實驗將佢哋帶到嚟現實世界

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劉︰宜家，我哋實驗室嘅人員

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同全世界嘅人員

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都用緊類似嘅方法啟動或者編輯記憶

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無論嗰啲記憶係舊、係新、係正面、係負面

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總之所有類型嘅記憶——等我哋能夠了解

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記憶係點樣運作嘅

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史︰例如，我哋實驗室嘅一個團隊

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發現咗形成恐懼記憶嘅腦細胞

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並將嗰啲腦細胞轉化成快樂記憶，就好似嗰個咁

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嗰個就係我想講嘅編輯過程

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宜家，實驗室人員甚至可以喺雄性老鼠當中

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啟動佢哋對雌性老鼠嘅記憶

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有流傳話隻老鼠經歷得好愉快

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劉︰我哋正生活喺一個好開心嘅時刻

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因為呢一刻科學除咗受制於我哋嘅想像力之外，就再冇限制

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史︰最後，我哋做到啲咩呢？

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我哋點樣繼續發展呢一個技術？

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呢啲問題唔應該剩係留返畀

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實驗室嘅人解答

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我哋今日演講嘅目的就係令所有人

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知道現代神經科學有可能嘅事

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但宜家重要嘅，係

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令所有人都參與個討論

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等我哋好似一個團隊咁一齊諗下神經科學可以做到啲咩

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我哋可以點樣繼續往前走

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因為劉同我都認為我哋所有人面前都有

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一啲重大決定要做

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多謝[br]劉︰多謝

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（鼓掌）