1 00:00:01,048 --> 00:00:03,119 Gloria Steinem: Yes, hello, hello. 2 00:00:03,143 --> 00:00:04,651 Pat Mitchel: Hello, hello. 3 00:00:04,675 --> 00:00:07,714 What a thrill to have this opportunity. 4 00:00:07,738 --> 00:00:11,767 When we ask all of our TED community, many of them, 5 00:00:11,791 --> 00:00:13,323 "Who would you like to hear from 6 00:00:13,347 --> 00:00:16,815 if we're going to look forward and onward, 7 00:00:16,839 --> 00:00:19,402 when it comes to women in the world?" 8 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,783 Unanimously, the answer was Gloria Steinem. 9 00:00:23,807 --> 00:00:27,964 Now I know you're way too modest to accept that easily, 10 00:00:27,988 --> 00:00:30,964 so before we move onward, 11 00:00:30,988 --> 00:00:32,742 may I go back a bit, 12 00:00:32,766 --> 00:00:35,940 since we have known each other for a long time, 13 00:00:35,964 --> 00:00:42,038 and talk about those early days when you were building a movement, 14 00:00:42,062 --> 00:00:44,371 challenging stereotypes, 15 00:00:44,395 --> 00:00:47,102 moving beyond cultural norms. 16 00:00:47,126 --> 00:00:51,498 You must have had some manifestation of fearless in your life. 17 00:00:51,522 --> 00:00:55,585 What were your fears and how did you overcome them? 18 00:00:56,847 --> 00:00:58,823 GS: No, I certainly had a lot of fears, 19 00:00:58,847 --> 00:01:02,047 and chief among them was speaking in public, 20 00:01:02,071 --> 00:01:03,511 just like I am now. 21 00:01:04,166 --> 00:01:07,614 Because, you know, we choose to express ourselves 22 00:01:07,638 --> 00:01:09,912 in the way that is most natural, 23 00:01:09,936 --> 00:01:12,529 and I became a writer because I didn't want to talk. 24 00:01:12,553 --> 00:01:17,656 So the first thing I had to overcome was the fear of public speaking 25 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,464 and because I was afraid to do it by myself, 26 00:01:21,488 --> 00:01:23,607 I asked a friend to do it with me -- 27 00:01:23,631 --> 00:01:26,133 Dorothy Pitman Hughes, and then Flo Kennedy -- 28 00:01:26,157 --> 00:01:30,855 anyway, so we became, in that way, somewhat accidentally 29 00:01:30,879 --> 00:01:34,133 one white woman, one Black woman speaking together, 30 00:01:34,157 --> 00:01:38,188 which, you know, was very helpful to express 31 00:01:38,212 --> 00:01:40,426 that the movement was for everyone. 32 00:01:41,807 --> 00:01:43,988 PM: And in those early days, 33 00:01:44,012 --> 00:01:50,364 when you were becoming, not only a really powerful public speaker 34 00:01:50,388 --> 00:01:52,252 in spite of your fears, 35 00:01:52,276 --> 00:01:55,773 you were also normalizing and creating 36 00:01:55,797 --> 00:02:00,011 response to a word that became the anthem 37 00:02:00,035 --> 00:02:01,209 for so many of us, 38 00:02:01,233 --> 00:02:03,339 literally changing lives, 39 00:02:03,363 --> 00:02:06,863 standing in front of crowds and saying, 40 00:02:06,887 --> 00:02:10,221 feminism is for every woman. 41 00:02:10,728 --> 00:02:14,895 And I see now as you do that there are still ways 42 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,712 in which feminism is not understood as a concept. 43 00:02:18,736 --> 00:02:21,680 Misunderstood, criticized, sometimes ridiculed. 44 00:02:22,116 --> 00:02:25,895 How do you describe feminism? 45 00:02:26,724 --> 00:02:30,296 GS: Well, it's just the radical idea that human beings are all equal 46 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:36,863 and we can dispense with the labels of gender and class and race 47 00:02:36,887 --> 00:02:40,855 and begin to realize our unique individuality. 48 00:02:41,569 --> 00:02:44,640 Of course feminism was misunderstood in the beginning, 49 00:02:44,664 --> 00:02:48,122 as if it were about female superiority 50 00:02:48,146 --> 00:02:51,744 or it was movement for lesbians only, 51 00:02:51,768 --> 00:02:52,926 not for all women, 52 00:02:52,950 --> 00:02:57,212 I mean, you know, there were all kinds of misunderstandings, 53 00:02:57,236 --> 00:02:59,045 not to mention ridicule. 54 00:02:59,069 --> 00:03:00,403 But I hope that that's past. 55 00:03:00,427 --> 00:03:03,283 I used to just send people to the dictionary 56 00:03:03,307 --> 00:03:05,402 to look up feminism, very helpful. 57 00:03:07,069 --> 00:03:09,322 PM: How do you feel the new generation 58 00:03:09,346 --> 00:03:12,109 and the next generation of young women, 59 00:03:12,133 --> 00:03:15,458 what is their relationship with the word 60 00:03:15,482 --> 00:03:20,720 and the concept of, there's still a lot to be done to reach that equal step? 61 00:03:21,514 --> 00:03:23,369 GS: Yeah, well I don't think that -- 62 00:03:23,393 --> 00:03:27,752 I mean, the word is still there, womanism, women's liberation, 63 00:03:27,776 --> 00:03:29,815 there are all kinds of words, 64 00:03:29,839 --> 00:03:33,003 but I think it's much more about content 65 00:03:33,027 --> 00:03:36,241 and not worrying too much about form. 66 00:03:36,265 --> 00:03:41,527 So Black Lives Matter was started by three young Black feminists. 67 00:03:41,998 --> 00:03:44,640 You know, that was their creation 68 00:03:44,664 --> 00:03:49,537 that is beginning to change much that needs to be changed. 69 00:03:50,188 --> 00:03:51,887 And they just assumed 70 00:03:51,911 --> 00:03:55,478 that of course they were there as three young Black feminists. 71 00:03:55,502 --> 00:03:58,622 PM: And in the early days of the women's movement 72 00:03:58,646 --> 00:04:00,328 and continuing all the way through, 73 00:04:00,352 --> 00:04:03,351 one of the ways that we have learned to talk to each other 74 00:04:03,375 --> 00:04:07,439 about difficult issues in which we may have disagreements, 75 00:04:07,463 --> 00:04:11,400 were sort of the talking circles or the consciousness raising, 76 00:04:11,424 --> 00:04:14,479 but do you see -- is this something we could do 77 00:04:14,503 --> 00:04:18,492 to begin to build back the bridges between us? 78 00:04:20,302 --> 00:04:23,808 GS: You know, I regret the emphasis on divisions 79 00:04:23,832 --> 00:04:27,723 because we are more unified than any other movement in history. 80 00:04:27,747 --> 00:04:32,859 So I think we ought to celebrate that fact. 81 00:04:32,883 --> 00:04:36,789 And it comes out of talking circles as you point out, 82 00:04:36,813 --> 00:04:39,377 which used to be called consciousness raising groups. 83 00:04:39,401 --> 00:04:42,892 And it just means that you sit in a circle, 84 00:04:42,916 --> 00:04:46,329 as Native Americans taught us long ago, 85 00:04:46,353 --> 00:04:50,516 and you each get to speak in turn -- 86 00:04:50,540 --> 00:04:54,262 Native Americans passed around a talking stick -- 87 00:04:54,286 --> 00:04:57,889 and everybody has to listen while each person -- 88 00:04:57,913 --> 00:05:01,726 and in that way, you say unsayable things 89 00:05:01,750 --> 00:05:04,116 and somebody on the other side of the circle says, 90 00:05:04,140 --> 00:05:06,093 "Oh, I've experienced that too." 91 00:05:06,117 --> 00:05:10,791 And you discover what is shared 92 00:05:10,815 --> 00:05:16,391 and also you discover how you can help each other. 93 00:05:16,415 --> 00:05:21,319 There's no substitute for those kinds of talking circles. 94 00:05:22,098 --> 00:05:26,146 PM: I want to be the first to volunteer with you, Gloria, 95 00:05:26,170 --> 00:05:30,662 to start the talking circles and passing the talking sticks again. 96 00:05:30,686 --> 00:05:35,082 One of the surprising things that people who come into your presence 97 00:05:35,106 --> 00:05:38,816 are always surprised to find out what a great sense of humor you have. 98 00:05:39,201 --> 00:05:42,423 And one of my favorite books of the many you have written 99 00:05:42,447 --> 00:05:44,033 sits by my bedside 100 00:05:44,057 --> 00:05:48,371 and the title of it, forgive me those who might not like bad language, 101 00:05:48,395 --> 00:05:53,544 the title is "The Truth Will Set You Free, But First It Will Piss You Off!" 102 00:05:53,568 --> 00:05:57,452 So I'm wondering now what truth is setting you free 103 00:05:57,476 --> 00:06:00,610 and what continues to piss you off? 104 00:06:02,888 --> 00:06:05,539 GS: Well actually, right at this moment 105 00:06:05,563 --> 00:06:08,774 I mean, the truth is COVID -- 106 00:06:08,798 --> 00:06:13,537 you know, and we understand that it's a universal experience 107 00:06:13,561 --> 00:06:15,815 and danger we're all dealing with, 108 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:22,172 and what pisses me off is that we don't use that experience 109 00:06:22,196 --> 00:06:23,876 in the positive sense. 110 00:06:24,265 --> 00:06:29,164 In the sense that we learn from dangers 111 00:06:29,188 --> 00:06:32,093 as well as from accomplishments. 112 00:06:32,117 --> 00:06:37,153 It pisses me off that this is not used in a positive way 113 00:06:37,177 --> 00:06:43,550 to overcome the idea of categories of human beings 114 00:06:43,574 --> 00:06:46,545 or of national boundaries or of countries. 115 00:06:46,569 --> 00:06:49,132 I mean, we're all here on spaceship Earth. 116 00:06:50,077 --> 00:06:52,903 We're all citizens of spaceship Earth 117 00:06:52,927 --> 00:06:54,348 and COVID knows that, 118 00:06:54,372 --> 00:06:57,053 so it should help to teach us that. 119 00:06:57,767 --> 00:07:00,246 PM: And as we're looking at out current reality, 120 00:07:00,270 --> 00:07:03,863 we've seen yet another great milestone for women, 121 00:07:03,887 --> 00:07:06,061 in this country for sure, 122 00:07:06,085 --> 00:07:09,013 with the newly elected vice president Kamala Harris, 123 00:07:09,037 --> 00:07:11,236 who said in her speech, you know, 124 00:07:11,260 --> 00:07:14,088 "I may be the first, but I won't be the last," 125 00:07:14,112 --> 00:07:18,541 and I think of the many times that you and I and others have said that. 126 00:07:18,565 --> 00:07:21,445 What difference will it make, 127 00:07:21,469 --> 00:07:23,720 in our country and around the world, 128 00:07:23,744 --> 00:07:27,847 when there are more women in all leadership positions, 129 00:07:27,871 --> 00:07:30,950 what are our differences as leaders? 130 00:07:30,974 --> 00:07:32,474 GS: Well, I mean for one thing, 131 00:07:32,498 --> 00:07:36,022 we will have the advantage of using all of human intelligence 132 00:07:36,046 --> 00:07:38,908 instead of only a small portion of it; 133 00:07:38,932 --> 00:07:40,339 this would be a good thing. 134 00:07:42,307 --> 00:07:47,102 And we will also allow children 135 00:07:47,126 --> 00:07:51,181 to see themselves as leaders universally, 136 00:07:51,205 --> 00:07:53,386 instead of just one small group. 137 00:07:53,984 --> 00:07:57,619 Because right now, when kids look at leaders, 138 00:07:57,643 --> 00:08:00,729 they don't necessarily see themselves. 139 00:08:01,047 --> 00:08:03,683 PM: When we look at you, we see a leader, Gloria, 140 00:08:03,707 --> 00:08:07,181 and there are so many things that you could point to with pride, 141 00:08:07,205 --> 00:08:08,926 although I know you don't. 142 00:08:10,339 --> 00:08:14,751 But what is it that motivates you 143 00:08:14,775 --> 00:08:18,395 or keeps you on the path onward 144 00:08:18,419 --> 00:08:20,128 in those moments of doubt 145 00:08:20,152 --> 00:08:23,324 or the times when things look bleak or there are fears, 146 00:08:23,348 --> 00:08:25,117 or do you ever fear, 147 00:08:25,141 --> 00:08:26,776 ever feel those feels? 148 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,181 GS: No, of course I fear, I mean, definitely. 149 00:08:31,629 --> 00:08:34,042 But as the slogan goes, 150 00:08:34,066 --> 00:08:36,257 "follow the fear and do it anyway" 151 00:08:36,281 --> 00:08:38,304 "fear is a sign of growth." 152 00:08:38,328 --> 00:08:39,478 (Laughs) 153 00:08:39,502 --> 00:08:41,315 It's a good thing, right? 154 00:08:41,339 --> 00:08:42,497 PM: Right. 155 00:08:42,521 --> 00:08:44,606 GS: I'm so inspired by young women, 156 00:08:44,630 --> 00:08:46,253 I mean, I keep feeling 157 00:08:46,277 --> 00:08:50,537 as if I just had to wait for some of my friends to be born. 158 00:08:51,617 --> 00:08:57,244 And to see that this is profoundly 159 00:08:57,753 --> 00:09:00,486 a global movement, as it always has been. 160 00:09:01,228 --> 00:09:06,609 I mean, you know, even the response to the march right after the inauguration 161 00:09:06,633 --> 00:09:09,601 of the current president, in every -- 162 00:09:09,625 --> 00:09:13,688 Latin America, Africa, you know, were marching together. 163 00:09:13,712 --> 00:09:16,919 It really has become a global movement, 164 00:09:16,943 --> 00:09:19,886 thanks in large part to technology 165 00:09:19,910 --> 00:09:23,371 because we can see each other as we are now, 166 00:09:23,395 --> 00:09:29,453 and also just to the contagion of the idea of freedom, you know. 167 00:09:30,175 --> 00:09:36,395 If women spend nine months being pregnant and caring for a child, 168 00:09:36,419 --> 00:09:38,767 why isn't it that men are responsible 169 00:09:38,791 --> 00:09:42,141 for spending that much more than half the time 170 00:09:42,165 --> 00:09:44,410 taking care of the child, hello? 171 00:09:44,434 --> 00:09:45,585 (Laughs) 172 00:09:45,609 --> 00:09:47,807 Logic is in the eye of the logician, right? 173 00:09:47,831 --> 00:09:48,982 (Laughs) 174 00:09:49,006 --> 00:09:52,939 So you know, wherever you look, 175 00:09:52,963 --> 00:09:59,137 there's just a discovery of freedom, of common sense, of companionship. 176 00:09:59,528 --> 00:10:00,875 PM: Is there, 177 00:10:00,899 --> 00:10:03,228 of all the things in your life, 178 00:10:03,252 --> 00:10:08,593 what has been the greatest source of confidence building and inspiration? 179 00:10:08,617 --> 00:10:12,189 Is it the global sisterhood that you've built around the world? 180 00:10:12,213 --> 00:10:14,681 GS: Well it's just other women. 181 00:10:15,259 --> 00:10:17,827 I mean, I would not have been able to ever conquer 182 00:10:17,851 --> 00:10:19,365 my fear of public speaking, 183 00:10:19,389 --> 00:10:21,664 which is where we started out, 184 00:10:21,688 --> 00:10:26,574 if it hadn't been for my fearless friend, 185 00:10:26,598 --> 00:10:27,947 Dorothy Pitman Hughes, 186 00:10:27,971 --> 00:10:30,104 you know, for doing it together. 187 00:10:30,718 --> 00:10:33,069 So you know, it's just, 188 00:10:33,093 --> 00:10:35,592 it's learning from each other, 189 00:10:35,616 --> 00:10:39,926 and just remembering to ask, really, 190 00:10:39,950 --> 00:10:41,934 because the help is there, 191 00:10:41,958 --> 00:10:45,228 the inspiration is there, 192 00:10:45,252 --> 00:10:48,251 the sense of community is there, 193 00:10:48,275 --> 00:10:54,496 and I hope that technology can help us in this way, 194 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:56,747 especially because for women, that's important, 195 00:10:56,771 --> 00:11:00,558 because we can communicate in safety. 196 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:06,012 But I do regret and worry about the COVID emergency, 197 00:11:06,036 --> 00:11:10,613 because we do also need to be together with all five senses 198 00:11:10,637 --> 00:11:13,256 in order to truly emphatize. 199 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,404 So I look forward to the day 200 00:11:16,428 --> 00:11:20,993 when you and I can once again be in the same room. 201 00:11:21,934 --> 00:11:24,562 PM: Well, you and I have been in a lot of the same rooms 202 00:11:24,586 --> 00:11:27,878 and even when you're not in the same room with women everywhere, 203 00:11:27,902 --> 00:11:29,950 you have inspired them, Gloria. 204 00:11:29,974 --> 00:11:32,324 And to see the full and total story, 205 00:11:32,348 --> 00:11:35,522 well, at least part of the full and total story, 206 00:11:35,546 --> 00:11:38,656 the movie has been made about Gloria's life. 207 00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:42,802 It's called "The Glorias" based on her book "My Life on the Road," 208 00:11:42,826 --> 00:11:45,769 which is certainly the way you spent your life, 209 00:11:45,793 --> 00:11:49,683 and it's available for streaming on Amazon Prime 210 00:11:49,707 --> 00:11:52,649 and I do highly recommend it. 211 00:11:53,125 --> 00:11:56,910 Gloria, thank you for your work, 212 00:11:56,934 --> 00:11:58,322 for your life, 213 00:11:58,346 --> 00:12:02,839 for the fearless way in which you have led us all forward, 214 00:12:02,863 --> 00:12:07,450 and one last next step for moving onward from you? 215 00:12:07,474 --> 00:12:09,585 What advice or counsel? 216 00:12:11,363 --> 00:12:12,513 GS: Ah. 217 00:12:14,030 --> 00:12:15,529 Just do it. 218 00:12:15,926 --> 00:12:19,412 (Laughs) You know, I think we kind of wait 219 00:12:19,436 --> 00:12:21,738 for instructions from up there 220 00:12:21,762 --> 00:12:24,222 or we worry or something 221 00:12:24,246 --> 00:12:29,141 and you know, if we just get up in the morning and say, 222 00:12:29,165 --> 00:12:31,125 "OK, I'm going to do this, 223 00:12:31,149 --> 00:12:35,228 and I'm going to get in touch with three or four other people," 224 00:12:35,252 --> 00:12:39,387 and just think of change as a tree, you know, 225 00:12:39,411 --> 00:12:41,287 it doesn't grow from the top down, 226 00:12:41,311 --> 00:12:44,303 so we shouldn't be waiting for somebody to tell us what to do. 227 00:12:44,779 --> 00:12:47,212 It grows from the bottom up, 228 00:12:47,236 --> 00:12:49,521 and we are the roots of change. 229 00:12:50,910 --> 00:12:54,158 PM: We are bearing the roots of your work, Gloria, with gratitude. 230 00:12:54,182 --> 00:12:58,460 Thank you very much for joining us for TEDWomen 2020. 231 00:12:58,484 --> 00:13:00,841 GS: No, and thank you for bringing women together, 232 00:13:00,865 --> 00:13:02,039 which is the magic. 233 00:13:02,063 --> 00:13:03,213 Thank you.