0:00:01.048,0:00:03.119 Gloria Steinem: Yes, hello, hello. 0:00:03.143,0:00:04.651 Pat Mitchel: Hello, hello. 0:00:04.675,0:00:07.714 What a thrill to have this opportunity. 0:00:07.738,0:00:11.767 When we ask all of our[br]TED community, many of them, 0:00:11.791,0:00:13.323 "Who would you like to hear from 0:00:13.347,0:00:16.815 if we're going to look forward and onward, 0:00:16.839,0:00:19.402 when it comes to women in the world?" 0:00:19.800,0:00:23.783 Unanimously, the answer[br]was Gloria Steinem. 0:00:23.807,0:00:27.964 Now I know you're way too modest[br]to accept that easily, 0:00:27.988,0:00:30.964 so before we move onward, 0:00:30.988,0:00:32.742 may I go back a bit, 0:00:32.766,0:00:35.940 since we have known each other[br]for a long time, 0:00:35.964,0:00:42.038 and talk about those early days[br]when you were building a movement, 0:00:42.062,0:00:44.371 challenging stereotypes, 0:00:44.395,0:00:47.102 moving beyond cultural norms. 0:00:47.126,0:00:51.498 You must have had some manifestation[br]of fearless in your life. 0:00:51.522,0:00:55.585 What were your fears[br]and how did you overcome them? 0:00:56.847,0:00:58.823 GS: No, I certainly had a lot of fears, 0:00:58.847,0:01:02.047 and chief among them[br]was speaking in public, 0:01:02.071,0:01:03.511 just like I am now. 0:01:04.166,0:01:07.614 Because, you know, we choose[br]to express ourselves 0:01:07.638,0:01:09.912 in the way that is most natural, 0:01:09.936,0:01:12.529 and I became a writer[br]because I didn't want to talk. 0:01:12.553,0:01:17.656 So the first thing I had to overcome[br]was the fear of public speaking 0:01:17.680,0:01:21.464 and because I was afraid[br]to do it by myself, 0:01:21.488,0:01:23.607 I asked a friend to do it with me -- 0:01:23.631,0:01:26.133 Dorothy Pitman Hughes,[br]and then Flo Kennedy -- 0:01:26.157,0:01:30.855 anyway, so we became,[br]in that way, somewhat accidentally 0:01:30.879,0:01:34.133 one white woman, one Black woman[br]speaking together, 0:01:34.157,0:01:38.188 which, you know,[br]was very helpful to express 0:01:38.212,0:01:40.426 that the movement was for everyone. 0:01:41.807,0:01:43.988 PM: And in those early days, 0:01:44.012,0:01:50.364 when you were becoming,[br]not only a really powerful public speaker 0:01:50.388,0:01:52.252 in spite of your fears, 0:01:52.276,0:01:55.773 you were also normalizing and creating 0:01:55.797,0:02:00.011 response to a word that became the anthem 0:02:00.035,0:02:01.209 for so many of us, 0:02:01.233,0:02:03.339 literally changing lives, 0:02:03.363,0:02:06.863 standing in front of crowds and saying, 0:02:06.887,0:02:10.221 feminism is for every woman. 0:02:10.728,0:02:14.895 And I see now as you do[br]that there are still ways 0:02:14.919,0:02:18.712 in which feminism[br]is not understood as a concept. 0:02:18.736,0:02:21.680 Misunderstood, criticized,[br]sometimes ridiculed. 0:02:22.116,0:02:25.895 How do you describe feminism? 0:02:26.724,0:02:30.296 GS: Well, it's just the radical idea[br]that human beings are all equal 0:02:30.320,0:02:36.863 and we can dispense with the labels[br]of gender and class and race 0:02:36.887,0:02:40.855 and begin to realize[br]our unique individuality. 0:02:41.569,0:02:44.640 Of course feminism[br]was misunderstood in the beginning, 0:02:44.664,0:02:48.122 as if it were about female superiority 0:02:48.146,0:02:51.744 or it was movement for lesbians only, 0:02:51.768,0:02:52.926 not for all women, 0:02:52.950,0:02:57.212 I mean, you know, there were all kinds[br]of misunderstandings, 0:02:57.236,0:02:59.045 not to mention ridicule. 0:02:59.069,0:03:00.403 But I hope that that's past. 0:03:00.427,0:03:03.283 I used to just send people[br]to the dictionary 0:03:03.307,0:03:05.402 to look up feminism, very helpful. 0:03:07.069,0:03:09.322 PM: How do you feel the new generation 0:03:09.346,0:03:12.109 and the next generation of young women, 0:03:12.133,0:03:15.458 what is their relationship with the word 0:03:15.482,0:03:20.720 and the concept of, there's still[br]a lot to be done to reach that equal step? 0:03:21.514,0:03:23.369 GS: Yeah, well I don't think that -- 0:03:23.393,0:03:27.752 I mean, the word is still there,[br]womanism, women's liberation, 0:03:27.776,0:03:29.815 there are all kinds of words, 0:03:29.839,0:03:33.003 but I think it's much more about content 0:03:33.027,0:03:36.241 and not worrying too much about form. 0:03:36.265,0:03:41.527 So Black Lives Matter was started[br]by three young Black feminists. 0:03:41.998,0:03:44.640 You know, that was their creation 0:03:44.664,0:03:49.537 that is beginning to change much[br]that needs to be changed. 0:03:50.188,0:03:51.887 And they just assumed 0:03:51.911,0:03:55.478 that of course they were there[br]as three young Black feminists. 0:03:55.502,0:03:58.622 PM: And in the early days[br]of the women's movement 0:03:58.646,0:04:00.328 and continuing all the way through, 0:04:00.352,0:04:03.351 one of the ways that we have learned[br]to talk to each other 0:04:03.375,0:04:07.439 about difficult issues[br]in which we may have disagreements, 0:04:07.463,0:04:11.400 were sort of the talking circles[br]or the consciousness raising, 0:04:11.424,0:04:14.479 but do you see -- is this[br]something we could do 0:04:14.503,0:04:18.492 to begin to build back[br]the bridges between us? 0:04:20.302,0:04:23.808 GS: You know, I regret[br]the emphasis on divisions 0:04:23.832,0:04:27.723 because we are more unified[br]than any other movement in history. 0:04:27.747,0:04:32.859 So I think we ought[br]to celebrate that fact. 0:04:32.883,0:04:36.789 And it comes out of talking circles[br]as you point out, 0:04:36.813,0:04:39.377 which used to be called[br]consciousness raising groups. 0:04:39.401,0:04:42.892 And it just means[br]that you sit in a circle, 0:04:42.916,0:04:46.329 as Native Americans taught us long ago, 0:04:46.353,0:04:50.516 and you each get to speak in turn -- 0:04:50.540,0:04:54.262 Native Americans passed[br]around a talking stick -- 0:04:54.286,0:04:57.889 and everybody has to listen[br]while each person -- 0:04:57.913,0:05:01.726 and in that way,[br]you say unsayable things 0:05:01.750,0:05:04.116 and somebody on the other[br]side of the circle says, 0:05:04.140,0:05:06.093 "Oh, I've experienced that too." 0:05:06.117,0:05:10.791 And you discover what is shared 0:05:10.815,0:05:16.391 and also you discover[br]how you can help each other. 0:05:16.415,0:05:21.319 There's no substitute[br]for those kinds of talking circles. 0:05:22.098,0:05:26.146 PM: I want to be the first[br]to volunteer with you, Gloria, 0:05:26.170,0:05:30.662 to start the talking circles[br]and passing the talking sticks again. 0:05:30.686,0:05:35.082 One of the surprising things[br]that people who come into your presence 0:05:35.106,0:05:38.816 are always surprised to find out[br]what a great sense of humor you have. 0:05:39.201,0:05:42.423 And one of my favorite books[br]of the many you have written 0:05:42.447,0:05:44.033 sits by my bedside 0:05:44.057,0:05:48.371 and the title of it, forgive me[br]those who might not like bad language, 0:05:48.395,0:05:53.544 the title is "The Truth Will Set You Free,[br]But First It Will Piss You Off!" 0:05:53.568,0:05:57.452 So I'm wondering now what truth[br]is setting you free 0:05:57.476,0:06:00.610 and what continues to piss you off? 0:06:02.888,0:06:05.539 GS: Well actually, right at this moment 0:06:05.563,0:06:08.774 I mean, the truth is COVID -- 0:06:08.798,0:06:13.537 you know, and we understand[br]that it's a universal experience 0:06:13.561,0:06:15.815 and danger we're all dealing with, 0:06:15.839,0:06:22.172 and what pisses me off is[br]that we don't use that experience 0:06:22.196,0:06:23.876 in the positive sense. 0:06:24.265,0:06:29.164 In the sense that we learn from dangers 0:06:29.188,0:06:32.093 as well as from accomplishments. 0:06:32.117,0:06:37.153 It pisses me off that this is not[br]used in a positive way 0:06:37.177,0:06:43.550 to overcome the idea[br]of categories of human beings 0:06:43.574,0:06:46.545 or of national boundaries or of countries. 0:06:46.569,0:06:49.132 I mean, we're all here on spaceship Earth. 0:06:50.077,0:06:52.903 We're all citizens of spaceship Earth 0:06:52.927,0:06:54.348 and COVID knows that, 0:06:54.372,0:06:57.053 so it should help to teach us that. 0:06:57.767,0:07:00.246 PM: And as we're looking[br]at out current reality, 0:07:00.270,0:07:03.863 we've seen yet another[br]great milestone for women, 0:07:03.887,0:07:06.061 in this country for sure, 0:07:06.085,0:07:09.013 with the newly elected[br]vice president Kamala Harris, 0:07:09.037,0:07:11.236 who said in her speech, you know, 0:07:11.260,0:07:14.088 "I may be the first,[br]but I won't be the last," 0:07:14.112,0:07:18.541 and I think of the many times[br]that you and I and others have said that. 0:07:18.565,0:07:21.445 What difference will it make, 0:07:21.469,0:07:23.720 in our country and around the world, 0:07:23.744,0:07:27.847 when there are more women[br]in all leadership positions, 0:07:27.871,0:07:30.950 what are our differences as leaders? 0:07:30.974,0:07:32.474 GS: Well, I mean for one thing, 0:07:32.498,0:07:36.022 we will have the advantage of using[br]all of human intelligence 0:07:36.046,0:07:38.908 instead of only a small portion of it; 0:07:38.932,0:07:40.339 this would be a good thing. 0:07:42.307,0:07:47.102 And we will also allow children 0:07:47.126,0:07:51.181 to see themselves as leaders universally, 0:07:51.205,0:07:53.386 instead of just one small group. 0:07:53.984,0:07:57.619 Because right now,[br]when kids look at leaders, 0:07:57.643,0:08:00.729 they don't necessarily see themselves. 0:08:01.047,0:08:03.683 PM: When we look at you,[br]we see a leader, Gloria, 0:08:03.707,0:08:07.181 and there are so many things[br]that you could point to with pride, 0:08:07.205,0:08:08.926 although I know you don't. 0:08:10.339,0:08:14.751 But what is it that motivates you 0:08:14.775,0:08:18.395 or keeps you on the path onward 0:08:18.419,0:08:20.128 in those moments of doubt 0:08:20.152,0:08:23.324 or the times when things look bleak[br]or there are fears, 0:08:23.348,0:08:25.117 or do you ever fear, 0:08:25.141,0:08:26.776 ever feel those feels? 0:08:26.800,0:08:30.181 GS: No, of course I fear,[br]I mean, definitely. 0:08:31.629,0:08:34.042 But as the slogan goes, 0:08:34.066,0:08:36.257 "follow the fear and do it anyway" 0:08:36.281,0:08:38.304 "fear is a sign of growth." 0:08:38.328,0:08:39.478 (Laughs) 0:08:39.502,0:08:41.315 It's a good thing, right? 0:08:41.339,0:08:42.497 PM: Right. 0:08:42.521,0:08:44.606 GS: I'm so inspired by young women, 0:08:44.630,0:08:46.253 I mean, I keep feeling 0:08:46.277,0:08:50.537 as if I just had to wait[br]for some of my friends to be born. 0:08:51.617,0:08:57.244 And to see that this is profoundly 0:08:57.753,0:09:00.486 a global movement, as it always has been. 0:09:01.228,0:09:06.609 I mean, you know, even the response[br]to the march right after the inauguration 0:09:06.633,0:09:09.601 of the current president, in every -- 0:09:09.625,0:09:13.688 Latin America, Africa, you know,[br]were marching together. 0:09:13.712,0:09:16.919 It really has become a global movement, 0:09:16.943,0:09:19.886 thanks in large part to technology 0:09:19.910,0:09:23.371 because we can see each other[br]as we are now, 0:09:23.395,0:09:29.453 and also just to the contagion[br]of the idea of freedom, you know. 0:09:30.175,0:09:36.395 If women spend nine months[br]being pregnant and caring for a child, 0:09:36.419,0:09:38.767 why isn't it that men are responsible 0:09:38.791,0:09:42.141 for spending that much more[br]than half the time 0:09:42.165,0:09:44.410 taking care of the child, hello? 0:09:44.434,0:09:45.585 (Laughs) 0:09:45.609,0:09:47.807 Logic is in the eye[br]of the logician, right? 0:09:47.831,0:09:48.982 (Laughs) 0:09:49.006,0:09:52.939 So you know, wherever you look, 0:09:52.963,0:09:59.137 there's just a discovery of freedom,[br]of common sense, of companionship. 0:09:59.528,0:10:00.875 PM: Is there, 0:10:00.899,0:10:03.228 of all the things in your life, 0:10:03.252,0:10:08.593 what has been the greatest source[br]of confidence building and inspiration? 0:10:08.617,0:10:12.189 Is it the global sisterhood[br]that you've built around the world? 0:10:12.213,0:10:14.681 GS: Well it's just other women. 0:10:15.259,0:10:17.827 I mean, I would not[br]have been able to ever conquer 0:10:17.851,0:10:19.365 my fear of public speaking, 0:10:19.389,0:10:21.664 which is where we started out, 0:10:21.688,0:10:26.574 if it hadn't been for my fearless friend, 0:10:26.598,0:10:27.947 Dorothy Pitman Hughes, 0:10:27.971,0:10:30.104 you know, for doing it together. 0:10:30.718,0:10:33.069 So you know, it's just, 0:10:33.093,0:10:35.592 it's learning from each other, 0:10:35.616,0:10:39.926 and just remembering to ask, really, 0:10:39.950,0:10:41.934 because the help is there, 0:10:41.958,0:10:45.228 the inspiration is there, 0:10:45.252,0:10:48.251 the sense of community is there, 0:10:48.275,0:10:54.496 and I hope that technology[br]can help us in this way, 0:10:54.520,0:10:56.747 especially because for women,[br]that's important, 0:10:56.771,0:11:00.558 because we can communicate in safety. 0:11:01.040,0:11:06.012 But I do regret and worry[br]about the COVID emergency, 0:11:06.036,0:11:10.613 because we do also need to be together[br]with all five senses 0:11:10.637,0:11:13.256 in order to truly emphatize. 0:11:13.280,0:11:16.404 So I look forward to the day 0:11:16.428,0:11:20.993 when you and I can once again[br]be in the same room. 0:11:21.934,0:11:24.562 PM: Well, you and I have been[br]in a lot of the same rooms 0:11:24.586,0:11:27.878 and even when you're not[br]in the same room with women everywhere, 0:11:27.902,0:11:29.950 you have inspired them, Gloria. 0:11:29.974,0:11:32.324 And to see the full and total story, 0:11:32.348,0:11:35.522 well, at least part[br]of the full and total story, 0:11:35.546,0:11:38.656 the movie has been made[br]about Gloria's life. 0:11:38.680,0:11:42.802 It's called "The Glorias"[br]based on her book "My Life on the Road," 0:11:42.826,0:11:45.769 which is certainly the way[br]you spent your life, 0:11:45.793,0:11:49.683 and it's available for streaming[br]on Amazon Prime 0:11:49.707,0:11:52.649 and I do highly recommend it. 0:11:53.125,0:11:56.910 Gloria, thank you for your work, 0:11:56.934,0:11:58.322 for your life, 0:11:58.346,0:12:02.839 for the fearless way in which[br]you have led us all forward, 0:12:02.863,0:12:07.450 and one last next step[br]for moving onward from you? 0:12:07.474,0:12:09.585 What advice or counsel? 0:12:11.363,0:12:12.513 GS: Ah. 0:12:14.030,0:12:15.529 Just do it. 0:12:15.926,0:12:19.412 (Laughs) You know, I think we kind of wait 0:12:19.436,0:12:21.738 for instructions from up there 0:12:21.762,0:12:24.222 or we worry or something 0:12:24.246,0:12:29.141 and you know, if we just[br]get up in the morning and say, 0:12:29.165,0:12:31.125 "OK, I'm going to do this, 0:12:31.149,0:12:35.228 and I'm going to get in touch[br]with three or four other people," 0:12:35.252,0:12:39.387 and just think of change[br]as a tree, you know, 0:12:39.411,0:12:41.287 it doesn't grow from the top down, 0:12:41.311,0:12:44.303 so we shouldn't be waiting[br]for somebody to tell us what to do. 0:12:44.779,0:12:47.212 It grows from the bottom up, 0:12:47.236,0:12:49.521 and we are the roots of change. 0:12:50.910,0:12:54.158 PM: We are bearing the roots[br]of your work, Gloria, with gratitude. 0:12:54.182,0:12:58.460 Thank you very much[br]for joining us for TEDWomen 2020. 0:12:58.484,0:13:00.841 GS: No, and thank you[br]for bringing women together, 0:13:00.865,0:13:02.039 which is the magic. 0:13:02.063,0:13:03.213 Thank you.