1 00:00:00,649 --> 00:00:04,944 I want to talk to you about the future of medicine, 2 00:00:04,944 --> 00:00:09,077 but before I do that, I want to talk a little bit about the past. 3 00:00:09,077 --> 00:00:12,700 Now, throughout much of the recent history of medicine, 4 00:00:12,700 --> 00:00:15,857 we've thought about illness and treatment 5 00:00:15,857 --> 00:00:19,967 in terms of a profoundly simple model. 6 00:00:19,967 --> 00:00:22,684 In fact, the model is so simple 7 00:00:22,684 --> 00:00:25,656 that you could summarize it in six words: 8 00:00:25,656 --> 00:00:31,043 have disease, take pill, kill something. 9 00:00:31,043 --> 00:00:35,338 Now, the reason for the dominance of this model 10 00:00:35,338 --> 00:00:38,473 is of course the antibiotic revolution. 11 00:00:38,473 --> 00:00:41,677 Many of you might not know this, but we happen to be celebrating 12 00:00:41,677 --> 00:00:45,508 the hundredth year of the introduction of antibiotics into the United States, 13 00:00:45,508 --> 00:00:47,226 but what you do know 14 00:00:47,226 --> 00:00:52,311 is that that introduction was nothing short of transformative. 15 00:00:52,311 --> 00:00:56,746 Here you had a chemical, either from the natural world 16 00:00:56,746 --> 00:00:59,509 or artificially synthesized in the laboratory, 17 00:00:59,509 --> 00:01:02,806 and it would course through your body, 18 00:01:02,806 --> 00:01:05,592 it would find its target, 19 00:01:05,592 --> 00:01:07,404 lock into its target -- 20 00:01:07,404 --> 00:01:09,516 a microbe or some part of a microbe -- 21 00:01:09,516 --> 00:01:12,465 and then turn off a lock and a key 22 00:01:12,465 --> 00:01:17,527 with exquisite deftness, exquisite specificity, 23 00:01:17,527 --> 00:01:21,823 and you would end up taking a previously fatal, lethal disease, 24 00:01:21,823 --> 00:01:24,493 a pneumonia, syphilis, tuberculosis, 25 00:01:24,493 --> 00:01:30,181 and transforming that into a curable, or treatable illness. 26 00:01:30,181 --> 00:01:32,805 You have a pneumonia, you take penicillin, 27 00:01:32,805 --> 00:01:35,426 you kill the microbe, 28 00:01:35,426 --> 00:01:37,585 and you cure the disease. 29 00:01:37,585 --> 00:01:40,719 So seductive was this idea, 30 00:01:40,719 --> 00:01:44,527 so potent the metaphor of lock and key 31 00:01:44,527 --> 00:01:46,315 and killing something, 32 00:01:46,315 --> 00:01:48,916 that it really swept through biology. 33 00:01:48,916 --> 00:01:51,888 It was a transformation like no other, 34 00:01:51,888 --> 00:01:55,440 and we've really spent the last 100 years 35 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,598 trying to replicate that model over and over again 36 00:01:58,598 --> 00:02:00,757 in noninfectious diseases, 37 00:02:00,757 --> 00:02:05,146 in chronic diseases like diabetes and hypertension and heart disease. 38 00:02:05,146 --> 00:02:09,256 And it's worked, but it's only worked partly. 39 00:02:09,256 --> 00:02:11,090 Let me show you. 40 00:02:11,090 --> 00:02:13,714 You know, if you take the entire universe 41 00:02:13,714 --> 00:02:17,243 of all chemical reactions in the human body, 42 00:02:17,243 --> 00:02:20,888 every chemical reaction that your body is capable of, 43 00:02:20,888 --> 00:02:23,178 most people think that that number is on the order of a million. 44 00:02:23,178 --> 00:02:24,943 Let's call it a million. 45 00:02:24,943 --> 00:02:26,800 And now you ask the question, 46 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,401 what number or fraction of reactions 47 00:02:29,401 --> 00:02:31,142 can actually be targeted 48 00:02:31,142 --> 00:02:35,662 by the entire pharmacopia, all of medicinal chemistry? 49 00:02:35,662 --> 00:02:39,222 That number is 250. 50 00:02:39,222 --> 00:02:42,334 The rest is chemical darkness. 51 00:02:42,334 --> 00:02:48,510 In other words, 0.025 percent of all chemical reactions in your body 52 00:02:48,510 --> 00:02:53,827 are actually targetable by this lock and key mechanism. 53 00:02:53,827 --> 00:02:57,287 You know, if you think about human physiology 54 00:02:57,287 --> 00:03:01,489 as a vast global telephone network 55 00:03:01,489 --> 00:03:04,740 with interacting nodes and interacting pieces, 56 00:03:04,740 --> 00:03:07,759 then all of our medicinal chemistry 57 00:03:07,759 --> 00:03:10,220 is all operating on one tiny corner 58 00:03:10,220 --> 00:03:12,890 at the edge, the outer edge, of that network. 59 00:03:12,890 --> 00:03:16,651 It's like all of our pharmaceutical chemistry 60 00:03:16,651 --> 00:03:20,436 is a pole operator in Wichita, Kansas 61 00:03:20,436 --> 00:03:24,360 who is tinkering with about 10 or 15 telephone lines. 62 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,238 So what do about this idea? 63 00:03:28,238 --> 00:03:31,140 What if we reorganized this approach? 64 00:03:31,140 --> 00:03:36,155 In fact, it turns out that the natural world 65 00:03:36,155 --> 00:03:40,567 gives us a sense of how one might think about illness 66 00:03:40,567 --> 00:03:42,564 in a radically different way, 67 00:03:42,564 --> 00:03:47,231 rather than disease, medicine, target. 68 00:03:47,231 --> 00:03:51,248 In fact, the natural world is organized hierarchically upwards, 69 00:03:51,248 --> 00:03:53,129 not downwards, but upwards, 70 00:03:53,129 --> 00:03:59,676 and we begin with a self-regulating, semi-autonomous unit called a cell. 71 00:03:59,676 --> 00:04:02,834 These self-regulating, semi-autonomous units 72 00:04:02,834 --> 00:04:08,174 give rise to self-regulating, semi-autonomous units called organs, 73 00:04:08,174 --> 00:04:12,029 and these organs coalesce to form things called humans, 74 00:04:12,029 --> 00:04:16,208 and these organisms ultimately live in environments, 75 00:04:16,208 --> 00:04:21,038 which are partly self-regulating and partly semi-autonomous. 76 00:04:21,038 --> 00:04:23,769 What's nice about this scheme, this hierarchical scheme 77 00:04:23,769 --> 00:04:26,369 building upwards rather than downwards 78 00:04:26,369 --> 00:04:29,899 is that it allows us to think about illness as well 79 00:04:29,899 --> 00:04:32,383 in a somewhat different way. 80 00:04:32,383 --> 00:04:35,657 Take a disease like cancer. 81 00:04:35,657 --> 00:04:40,292 Since the 1950s, we've tried rather desperately to apply 82 00:04:40,292 --> 00:04:42,962 this lock and key model to cancer. 83 00:04:42,962 --> 00:04:50,439 We've tried to kill cells using a variety of chemotherapies or targeted therapies, 84 00:04:50,439 --> 00:04:52,737 and as most of us know, that's worked. 85 00:04:52,737 --> 00:04:54,316 It's worked for diseases like leukemia. 86 00:04:54,316 --> 00:04:56,893 It's worked for some forms of breast cancer, 87 00:04:56,893 --> 00:05:00,748 but eventually you run to the ceiling of that approach, 88 00:05:00,748 --> 00:05:03,464 and it's only in the last 10 years or so 89 00:05:03,464 --> 00:05:06,436 that we've begun to think about using the immune system, 90 00:05:06,436 --> 00:05:09,144 remembering that in fact the cancer cell doesn't grow in a vacuum. 91 00:05:09,144 --> 00:05:11,745 It actually grows in a human organism, 92 00:05:11,745 --> 00:05:14,090 and could you use the organismal capacity, 93 00:05:14,090 --> 00:05:17,155 the fact that human beings have an immune system, to attack cancer? 94 00:05:17,155 --> 00:05:22,031 In fact, it's led to the some of the most spectacular new medicines in cancer. 95 00:05:22,031 --> 00:05:24,654 And finally, I mean, there's the level of the environment, isn't there. 96 00:05:24,654 --> 00:05:29,080 You know, we don't think of cancer as altering the environment. 97 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:34,096 Let me give you an example of a profoundly carcinogenic environment. 98 00:05:34,096 --> 00:05:36,209 It's called a prison. 99 00:05:36,209 --> 00:05:41,549 You take loneliness, you take depression, you take confinement, 100 00:05:41,549 --> 00:05:43,398 and you add to that, 101 00:05:43,398 --> 00:05:47,113 rolled up in a little white sheet of paper, 102 00:05:47,113 --> 00:05:50,224 one of the most potent neurostimulants that we know, called nicotine, 103 00:05:50,224 --> 00:05:55,913 and you add to that one of the most potent addictive substances that you know, 104 00:05:55,913 --> 00:05:59,976 and you have a pro-carcinogenic environment. 105 00:05:59,976 --> 00:06:02,089 But you can have anti-carcinogenic environments too. 106 00:06:02,089 --> 00:06:05,572 There are attempts to create milieus, 107 00:06:05,572 --> 00:06:08,451 change the hormonal milieu for breast cancer, for instance. 108 00:06:08,451 --> 00:06:11,887 We're trying to change the metabolic milieu for other forms of cancer. 109 00:06:11,887 --> 00:06:14,395 Or take another disease, like depression. 110 00:06:14,395 --> 00:06:16,996 Again, working others, 111 00:06:16,996 --> 00:06:20,757 since the 1960s and 1970s, we've tried, again, desperately 112 00:06:20,757 --> 00:06:25,192 to turn off molecules that operate between nerve cells -- 113 00:06:25,192 --> 00:06:27,723 serotonin, dopamine -- 114 00:06:27,723 --> 00:06:30,370 and tried to cure depression that way, and that's worked, 115 00:06:30,370 --> 00:06:33,110 but then that reached the limit. 116 00:06:33,110 --> 00:06:35,478 And we now know that what you really probably need to do 117 00:06:35,478 --> 00:06:38,427 is to change the physiology of the organ, the brain, 118 00:06:38,427 --> 00:06:40,888 rewire it, remodel it, 119 00:06:40,888 --> 00:06:43,512 and that of course, we know study upon study has shown 120 00:06:43,512 --> 00:06:45,485 that talk therapy does exactly that, 121 00:06:45,485 --> 00:06:48,030 and study upon study has shown that talk therapy combined 122 00:06:48,030 --> 00:06:50,561 with medicines, pills, 123 00:06:50,561 --> 00:06:53,998 really is much more effective than either one alone. 124 00:06:53,998 --> 00:06:57,457 Can we imagine a more immersive environment that will change depression? 125 00:06:57,457 --> 00:07:01,683 Can you lock out the signals that elicit depression? 126 00:07:01,683 --> 00:07:07,883 Again, moving upwards along this hierarchical chain of organization. 127 00:07:07,883 --> 00:07:10,460 What's really at stake perhaps here 128 00:07:10,460 --> 00:07:12,318 is not the medicine itself but a metaphor. 129 00:07:12,318 --> 00:07:15,963 Rather than killing something, 130 00:07:15,963 --> 00:07:19,678 in the case of the great chronic degenerative diseases -- 131 00:07:19,678 --> 00:07:23,300 kidney failure, diabetes, hypertension, osteoarthritis -- 132 00:07:23,300 --> 00:07:26,644 maybe what we really need to do is change the metaphor to growing something. 133 00:07:26,644 --> 00:07:28,571 And that's the key, perhaps, 134 00:07:28,571 --> 00:07:31,218 to reframing our thinking about medicine. 135 00:07:31,218 --> 00:07:34,538 Now, this idea of changing, 136 00:07:34,538 --> 00:07:36,837 of creating a perceptual shift, as it were, 137 00:07:36,837 --> 00:07:40,204 came home to me to roost in a very, very personal matter about 10 years ago. 138 00:07:40,204 --> 00:07:42,734 About 10 years ago -- I've been a runner most of my life -- 139 00:07:42,734 --> 00:07:44,824 I went for a run, a Saturday morning run, 140 00:07:44,824 --> 00:07:47,819 I came back and woke up and I basically couldn't move. 141 00:07:47,819 --> 00:07:50,002 My right knee was swollen up, 142 00:07:50,002 --> 00:07:53,392 and you could hear that ominous crunch of bone against bone. 143 00:07:53,392 --> 00:07:59,174 And one of the perks of being a physician is that you get to order your own MRIs. 144 00:07:59,174 --> 00:08:03,167 And I had an MRI the next week, and it looked like that. 145 00:08:03,167 --> 00:08:07,463 Essentially, the meniscus of cartilage that is between bone 146 00:08:07,463 --> 00:08:10,992 had been completely torn and the bone itself had been shattered. 147 00:08:10,992 --> 00:08:13,407 Now, if you're looking at me and feeling sorry, 148 00:08:13,407 --> 00:08:15,241 let me tell you a few facts. 149 00:08:15,241 --> 00:08:19,351 If I was to take an MRI of every person in this audience, 150 00:08:19,351 --> 00:08:21,539 60 percent of you would show signs 151 00:08:21,539 --> 00:08:24,325 of bone degeneration and cartilage degeneration like this; 152 00:08:24,325 --> 00:08:28,133 85 percent of all women by the age of 70 153 00:08:28,133 --> 00:08:31,384 would show moderate to severe cartilage degeneration; 154 00:08:31,384 --> 00:08:34,959 50 to 60 percent of the men in this audience would also have such signs. 155 00:08:34,959 --> 00:08:37,258 So this is a very common disease. 156 00:08:37,258 --> 00:08:39,371 Well, the second perk of being a physician 157 00:08:39,371 --> 00:08:42,250 is that you can get to experiment on your own ailments. 158 00:08:42,250 --> 00:08:45,524 So about 10 years ago we began, 159 00:08:45,524 --> 00:08:47,405 we brought this process into the laboratory, 160 00:08:47,405 --> 00:08:49,030 and we began to do simple experiments, 161 00:08:49,030 --> 00:08:53,279 mechanically trying to fix this degeneration. 162 00:08:53,279 --> 00:08:56,414 We tried to inject chemicals into the knee spaces of animals 163 00:08:56,414 --> 00:08:59,038 to try to reverse cartilage degeneration, 164 00:08:59,038 --> 00:09:03,240 and to put a short summary on a very long and painful process, 165 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,400 essentially it came to naught. 166 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,048 Nothing happened. 167 00:09:07,048 --> 00:09:11,878 And then about seven years ago, we had a research student from Australia. 168 00:09:11,878 --> 00:09:14,409 Now, the nice thing about Australians is that they're habitually used 169 00:09:14,409 --> 00:09:17,658 to looking at the world upside down, and so -- (Laughter) -- 170 00:09:17,658 --> 00:09:21,838 Dan suggested to me, "You know, maybe it isn't a mechanical problem. 171 00:09:21,838 --> 00:09:27,889 Maybe it isn't a chemical problem. Maybe it's a stem cell problem." 172 00:09:27,889 --> 00:09:30,048 In other words, he had two hypotheses. 173 00:09:30,048 --> 00:09:33,601 Number one, there is such a thing as a skeletal stem cell 174 00:09:33,601 --> 00:09:37,711 that builds up the entire vertebrate skeleton: 175 00:09:37,711 --> 00:09:39,893 bone, cartilage, and the fibrous elements of skeleton, 176 00:09:39,893 --> 00:09:41,426 just like there's a stem cell in blood, 177 00:09:41,426 --> 00:09:43,283 just like there's a stem cell in the nervous system, 178 00:09:43,283 --> 00:09:47,161 and two, that maybe that, the degeneration or dysfunction of this stem cell 179 00:09:47,161 --> 00:09:50,365 that is causing osteochondral arthritis, a very common ailment. 180 00:09:50,365 --> 00:09:54,312 So really the question was, were we looking for a pill 181 00:09:54,312 --> 00:09:56,750 when we should have really been looking for a cell. 182 00:09:56,750 --> 00:09:59,885 So we switched our models, 183 00:09:59,885 --> 00:10:03,670 and now we began to look for skeletal stem cells, 184 00:10:03,670 --> 00:10:06,224 and to cut again a long story short, 185 00:10:06,224 --> 00:10:10,255 about five years ago, we found these cells. 186 00:10:10,255 --> 00:10:12,321 They live inside the skeleton. 187 00:10:12,321 --> 00:10:15,340 Here's a schematic and then a real photograph of one of them. 188 00:10:15,340 --> 00:10:17,267 The white stuff is bone, 189 00:10:17,267 --> 00:10:19,566 and these red columns that you see and the yellow cells 190 00:10:19,566 --> 00:10:23,745 are cells that have arisen from one single skeleton stem cell, 191 00:10:23,745 --> 00:10:26,926 columns of cartilage, columns of bone coming out a single cell. 192 00:10:26,926 --> 00:10:29,852 These cells are fascinating. They have four properties. 193 00:10:29,852 --> 00:10:32,824 Number one is that they live where they're expected to live. 194 00:10:32,824 --> 00:10:36,191 They live just underneath the surface of the bone, 195 00:10:36,191 --> 00:10:38,164 underneath cartilage. 196 00:10:38,164 --> 00:10:40,463 You know, in biology, it's location, location, location, 197 00:10:40,463 --> 00:10:43,690 and they move into the appropriate areas and form bone and cartilage. That's one. 198 00:10:43,690 --> 00:10:46,941 Here's an interesting property. 199 00:10:46,941 --> 00:10:50,168 You can take them out of the vertebrate skeleton, 200 00:10:50,168 --> 00:10:52,978 you can culture them in petri dishes in the laboratory, 201 00:10:52,978 --> 00:10:55,137 and they are dying to form cartilage. 202 00:10:55,137 --> 00:10:57,273 Remember how we couldn't form cartilage for love or money? 203 00:10:57,273 --> 00:10:59,410 These cells are dying to form cartilage. 204 00:10:59,410 --> 00:11:02,730 They form their own furls of cartilage around themselves. 205 00:11:02,730 --> 00:11:04,518 They're also, number three, the most efficient repairers 206 00:11:04,518 --> 00:11:09,022 of fractures that we've ever encountered. 207 00:11:09,022 --> 00:11:11,280 This is a little bone, a mouse bone that we fractured 208 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,161 and then let it heal by itself. 209 00:11:13,161 --> 00:11:16,217 These stem cells have come in and repaired, in yellow, the bone, 210 00:11:16,217 --> 00:11:19,073 in white, the cartilage, almost completely, 211 00:11:19,073 --> 00:11:21,720 so much so that if you label them with a fluorescent dye 212 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:26,479 you can see them like some kind of peculiar cellular glue 213 00:11:26,479 --> 00:11:28,407 coming into the area of a fracture, fixing it locally, 214 00:11:28,407 --> 00:11:31,379 and then stopping their work. 215 00:11:31,379 --> 00:11:34,063 Now, the fourth one is the most ominous, 216 00:11:34,063 --> 00:11:37,871 and that is that their numbers decline precipitously, 217 00:11:37,871 --> 00:11:42,538 precipitously, tenfold, fiftyfold, as you age. 218 00:11:42,538 --> 00:11:45,580 And so what had happened, really, is that we found ourselves 219 00:11:45,580 --> 00:11:47,228 in perceptual shift. 220 00:11:47,228 --> 00:11:49,968 We had gone hunting for pills 221 00:11:49,968 --> 00:11:52,290 but we ended up finding theories, 222 00:11:52,290 --> 00:11:56,144 and in some ways, we had hooked ourselves back onto this idea: 223 00:11:56,144 --> 00:11:58,908 cells, organisms, environments, 224 00:11:58,908 --> 00:12:02,112 because we were now thinking about bone stem cells, 225 00:12:02,112 --> 00:12:05,850 we were thinking about arthritis in terms of a cellular disease. 226 00:12:05,850 --> 00:12:08,015 And then the next question was, are there organs? 227 00:12:08,015 --> 00:12:10,406 Can you build this as an organ outside the body? 228 00:12:10,406 --> 00:12:13,866 Can you implant cartilage into areas of trauma? 229 00:12:13,866 --> 00:12:16,272 And perhaps most interestingly, 230 00:12:16,272 --> 00:12:18,696 can you ascend right up and create environments? 231 00:12:18,696 --> 00:12:21,821 You know, we know that exercise remodels bone, 232 00:12:21,821 --> 00:12:24,190 but come on, none of us is going to exercise. 233 00:12:24,190 --> 00:12:29,414 So could you imagine ways of passively loading and unloading bone 234 00:12:29,414 --> 00:12:34,360 so that you can recreate or regenerate degenerating catilage? 235 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,564 And perhaps more interesting, and more importantly, 236 00:12:37,564 --> 00:12:39,816 the question is, can you apply this model more globally outside medicine? 237 00:12:39,816 --> 00:12:44,181 What's at stake, as I said before, is not killing something, 238 00:12:44,181 --> 00:12:46,317 but growing something. 239 00:12:46,317 --> 00:12:50,172 And it raises a series of, I think, some of the most interesting questions 240 00:12:50,172 --> 00:12:54,490 about how we think about medicine in the future. 241 00:12:54,490 --> 00:12:58,902 Could your medicine be a cell and not a pill? 242 00:12:58,902 --> 00:13:01,224 How would we grow these cells? 243 00:13:01,224 --> 00:13:04,266 What we would we do to stop the malignant growth of these cells? 244 00:13:04,266 --> 00:13:07,911 We heard about the problems of unleashing growth. 245 00:13:07,911 --> 00:13:11,092 Would we have to implant suicide genes into these cells 246 00:13:11,092 --> 00:13:13,205 to stop them from growing? 247 00:13:13,205 --> 00:13:16,061 Could your medicine be an organ that's created outside the body 248 00:13:16,061 --> 00:13:18,940 and then implanted into the body? 249 00:13:18,940 --> 00:13:21,703 Could that stop some of the degeneration? 250 00:13:21,703 --> 00:13:23,630 What if the organ needed to have memory? 251 00:13:23,630 --> 00:13:28,428 In cases of diseases of the nervous system some of those organs had memory. 252 00:13:28,428 --> 00:13:30,912 How could we implant those memories back in? 253 00:13:30,912 --> 00:13:32,839 Could we store these organs? 254 00:13:32,839 --> 00:13:35,719 Could each organ have to be developed for an individual human being 255 00:13:35,719 --> 00:13:38,551 and put back? 256 00:13:38,551 --> 00:13:41,175 And perhaps most puzzlingly, 257 00:13:41,175 --> 00:13:44,170 could your medicine be an environment? 258 00:13:44,170 --> 00:13:46,097 Could you patent an environment? 259 00:13:46,097 --> 00:13:52,320 In every culture, shamans have been using environments as medicines. 260 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,455 Could we imagine that for our future? 261 00:13:55,455 --> 00:13:59,602 I've talked a lot about models. I began this talk with models. 262 00:13:59,602 --> 00:14:02,319 So let me end with some thoughts about model building. 263 00:14:02,319 --> 00:14:04,315 That's what we do as scientists. 264 00:14:04,315 --> 00:14:07,659 You know, when an architect builds a model, 265 00:14:07,659 --> 00:14:10,863 he or she is trying to show you a world in miniature. 266 00:14:10,863 --> 00:14:13,882 But when a scientist is building a model, 267 00:14:13,882 --> 00:14:16,807 he or she is trying to show you the world in metaphor. 268 00:14:16,807 --> 00:14:21,637 He or she is trying to create a new way of seeing. 269 00:14:21,637 --> 00:14:26,977 The former is a scale shift. The latter is a perceptual shift. 270 00:14:26,977 --> 00:14:31,435 Now, antibiotics created such a perceptual shift 271 00:14:31,435 --> 00:14:35,731 in our way of thinking about medicine that it really colored, distorted, 272 00:14:35,731 --> 00:14:40,212 very successfully, the way we've thought about medicine for the last hundred years. 273 00:14:40,212 --> 00:14:44,833 But we need new models to think about medicine in the future. 274 00:14:44,833 --> 00:14:46,690 That's what's at stake. 275 00:14:46,690 --> 00:14:50,637 You know, there's a popular trope out there 276 00:14:50,637 --> 00:14:54,886 that the reason we haven't had the transformative impact 277 00:14:54,886 --> 00:14:56,860 on the treatment of illness 278 00:14:56,860 --> 00:14:59,739 is because we don't have powerful enough drugs, 279 00:14:59,739 --> 00:15:01,504 and that's partly true, 280 00:15:01,504 --> 00:15:05,373 but perhaps the real reason is that we don't have powerful enough 281 00:15:05,373 --> 00:15:08,437 ways of thinking about medicines. 282 00:15:08,437 --> 00:15:11,201 It's certainly true that 283 00:15:11,201 --> 00:15:14,799 it would be lovely to have new medicines, 284 00:15:14,799 --> 00:15:19,466 but perhaps what's really at stake are three more intangible ends: 285 00:15:19,466 --> 00:15:23,507 mechanisms, models, metaphors. 286 00:15:23,507 --> 00:15:25,434 Thank you. 287 00:15:25,434 --> 00:15:31,515 (Applause) 288 00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:36,950 Chris Anderson: I really like this metaphor. 289 00:15:36,950 --> 00:15:40,712 How does it link in? There's a lot of talk 290 00:15:40,712 --> 00:15:43,922 in technologyland about the personalization of medicine, 291 00:15:43,922 --> 00:15:45,709 that we have all this data and that medical treatments of the future 292 00:15:45,709 --> 00:15:51,886 will be for you specifically, your genome, your current context. 293 00:15:51,886 --> 00:15:55,670 Does that apply to this model you've got here? 294 00:15:55,670 --> 00:15:57,348 Siddhartha Mukherjee: It's a very interesting question. 295 00:15:57,348 --> 00:16:00,087 You know, we've thought about personalization of medicine 296 00:16:00,087 --> 00:16:02,386 very much in terms of genomics. 297 00:16:02,386 --> 00:16:05,173 That's because the gene is such a dominant metaphor, 298 00:16:05,173 --> 00:16:08,191 again, to use that same word, in medicine today, 299 00:16:08,191 --> 00:16:11,628 that we think the genome will drive the personalization of medicine. 300 00:16:11,628 --> 00:16:15,111 But of course the genome is just the bottom 301 00:16:15,111 --> 00:16:17,642 of a long chain of being, as it were. 302 00:16:17,642 --> 00:16:22,495 That chain of being, really the first organized unit of that, is the cell. 303 00:16:22,495 --> 00:16:25,443 So, if we are really going to deliver in medicine in this way, 304 00:16:25,443 --> 00:16:28,346 we have to think of personalizing cellular therapies, 305 00:16:28,346 --> 00:16:31,480 and then personalizing organ or organismal therapies, 306 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:35,335 and ultimately personalizing emersion therapies for the environment. 307 00:16:35,335 --> 00:16:37,796 So I think at every stage, you know, 308 00:16:37,796 --> 00:16:40,698 there's that metaphor, there's turtles all the way. 309 00:16:40,698 --> 00:16:43,113 Well, in this, there's personalization all the way. 310 00:16:43,113 --> 00:16:46,201 CA: So when you say medicine could be a cell 311 00:16:46,201 --> 00:16:48,221 and not a pill, 312 00:16:48,221 --> 00:16:49,847 I mean, you're talking about potentially your own cells. 313 00:16:49,847 --> 00:16:52,703 SM: Absolutely. CA: So converted to stem cells, 314 00:16:52,703 --> 00:16:57,300 perhaps tested against all kinds of drugs or something, and prepared. 315 00:16:57,300 --> 00:16:59,900 SM: And there's no perhaps. This is what we're doing. 316 00:16:59,900 --> 00:17:03,616 This is what's happening, and in fact, we're slowly moving, 317 00:17:03,616 --> 00:17:07,420 not away from genomics, but incorporating genomics 318 00:17:07,420 --> 00:17:11,556 into what we call multi-order, semi-autonomous, self-regulating systems, 319 00:17:11,556 --> 00:17:14,830 like cells, like organs, like environments. 320 00:17:14,830 --> 00:17:18,187 CA: Thank you so much. SM: Thank you.