1 00:00:06,265 --> 00:00:10,250 People from Here 2 00:00:12,299 --> 00:00:17,240 Welcome back to People from Here. What we want to tell you today 3 00:00:17,240 --> 00:00:22,803 is the story of two young people, of two young people with high hopes. 4 00:00:22,803 --> 00:00:27,037 There is Adelina, a brilliant lawyer who works 5 00:00:27,039 --> 00:00:32,258 at a prestigious legal firm in Milan. Then there is Ettore, 6 00:00:32,261 --> 00:00:36,608 an industrial chemist. The future can only smile 7 00:00:36,608 --> 00:00:40,100 upon Adelina and Ettore. Actually, 8 00:00:40,166 --> 00:00:46,318 their future will be more turbulent thank they could have ever imagined. 9 00:00:46,645 --> 00:00:53,576 In fact, in 1938 Ettore and Adelina are Jewish. 10 00:00:53,703 --> 00:01:00,917 On September 18th, from the balcony of Trieste's town hall, 11 00:01:01,242 --> 00:01:06,207 Benito Mussolini announced for the first time the Racial Laws 12 00:01:06,322 --> 00:01:08,160 for the defense of the race. 13 00:01:08,526 --> 00:01:16,728 The world of those two young people suddenly collapses under their feet. 14 00:01:17,146 --> 00:01:22,487 We will tell this story about Ettore and Adelina 15 00:01:22,719 --> 00:01:27,145 on the eve of the day. We will tell it with the son 16 00:01:27,188 --> 00:01:31,820 of Ettore and Adelina, Daniele Finzi, who in 2011, 17 00:01:32,131 --> 00:01:38,099 decided to donate his parents letters and documents 18 00:01:38,099 --> 00:01:42,254 to The Archives of Pieve Santo Stefano. 19 00:01:42,254 --> 00:01:46,544 Shortly we will also discuss why this choice was made. 20 00:01:46,544 --> 00:01:50,991 Now I would like to start with September 1938. 21 00:01:50,991 --> 00:01:58,047 with Mussolini's announcement of the laws for the defense of the race. 22 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,623 Ettore and Adelina immediately started to understand that there wasn't 23 00:02:02,623 --> 00:02:05,614 a future for them in that country. 24 00:02:05,614 --> 00:02:10,221 Deciding to leave their country was a difficult decision, 25 00:02:10,221 --> 00:02:14,801 a difficult decision, but one that will save their lives. 26 00:02:15,174 --> 00:02:25,792 Yes, my father Ettore Finzi was very knowledgable about history. 27 00:02:26,319 --> 00:02:29,599 Also because he knew German very well. 28 00:02:29,849 --> 00:02:34,349 He had two aunts, aunt Genie and aunt Lazigudita Gentiluomo, 29 00:02:34,349 --> 00:02:36,430 who both lived in Vienna. 30 00:02:36,583 --> 00:02:45,924 He had followed all the Nazi antisemitism up to March 1938. 31 00:02:45,924 --> 00:02:56,795 So when the Race Manifesto was published in July 1938, he didn't expect it. 32 00:02:57,048 --> 00:03:02,767 He knew what the contents were about and he also hoped that Italy would be 33 00:03:02,782 --> 00:03:06,960 a little different from Germany. 34 00:03:07,423 --> 00:03:17,220 And my father, more than my mother, made quick and immediate decisions. 35 00:03:17,220 --> 00:03:21,670 He was also very intuitive. He had known my mom only a few months, 36 00:03:21,679 --> 00:03:25,258 and he returns to these months in April 1938. 37 00:03:25,936 --> 00:03:32,775 It was love at first sight and because of the Race Manifesto 38 00:03:32,775 --> 00:03:35,583 and the Racial Laws, they decided to get married. 39 00:03:35,613 --> 00:03:39,811 They were married in Milan on December 1, 1938. 40 00:03:40,027 --> 00:03:43,868 In 1938. We arrive in 1939. - Yes. 41 00:03:43,868 --> 00:03:46,459 An ominous date for many. - Yes. 42 00:03:46,459 --> 00:03:49,173 Very unjust, but there is a turning point. - There is a... 43 00:03:49,173 --> 00:03:55,598 Ettore and Adelina decide to leave. Or rather, how do they depart? 44 00:03:55,598 --> 00:03:58,246 Because, in a sense, they leave informed. 45 00:03:58,246 --> 00:04:03,779 Yes and no. The problem is immediate 46 00:04:03,786 --> 00:04:05,919 and that of money. 47 00:04:06,204 --> 00:04:13,857 Because the White Paper of the British, a policy from maybe February 48 00:04:13,890 --> 00:04:22,536 or March of 1939, allowed a total of 75,000 Jews 49 00:04:22,617 --> 00:04:27,156 to enter Palestine for five years. 50 00:04:27,553 --> 00:04:33,039 However, to qualify to enter, every person needed to have 1,000 stars. 51 00:04:33,039 --> 00:04:36,757 Because, like we said, they had chosen. - To go to... 52 00:04:36,757 --> 00:04:38,626 The goal was Palestine. - Yes. 53 00:04:38,626 --> 00:04:43,533 The choice was not a coincidence, because my father had also thought 54 00:04:43,546 --> 00:04:44,950 about Latin America. 55 00:04:45,199 --> 00:04:50,948 But the idea of going to Palestine was because it was nearby. 56 00:04:50,948 --> 00:04:53,981 He was from Trieste so it was close. 57 00:04:53,981 --> 00:04:58,002 He also hoped his parents could join him. 58 00:04:58,002 --> 00:05:00,850 In any case, the issue of money was really 59 00:05:00,850 --> 00:05:04,243 a huge problem because they didn't have any. 60 00:05:04,571 --> 00:05:09,219 So, thanks to the lawyer Gianni Morandi, who was the owner of the firm 61 00:05:09,374 --> 00:05:16,177 where my mom worked, they went to Zurich for their honeymoon. 62 00:05:16,485 --> 00:05:21,335 Then they went to Lugano to gather clients for the lawyer. 63 00:05:21,652 --> 00:05:26,441 It was to put towards this large sum. And I still remember two leather bags 64 00:05:26,624 --> 00:05:32,586 with thousands of little stars inside. They were gold little stars. 65 00:05:32,992 --> 00:05:38,496 At this point, they reach Palestine. A tangent here about Palestine. 66 00:05:38,496 --> 00:05:42,260 The State of Israel still didn't exist. 67 00:05:42,260 --> 00:05:47,213 There wasn't any money to protect them. Therefore, they had to start from scratch. 68 00:05:47,213 --> 00:05:52,988 Yes, and so, they started all over again from January to April 1, 1939. 69 00:05:52,988 --> 00:05:57,214 They arrived in Haifa on April 6th. 70 00:05:57,461 --> 00:06:05,748 Yes, because as of 1922, the British controlled Palestine. 71 00:06:06,155 --> 00:06:12,740 There were Palestinian Arabs. The Jewish Palestinians were organized 72 00:06:12,740 --> 00:06:20,844 by the Yishuv, who were more concerned with the kibbutz and wanted 73 00:06:20,844 --> 00:06:24,006 to dedicate themselves to agriculture, etc. 74 00:06:24,006 --> 00:06:31,323 But the foundation, the political one, was led by the Arab agency. 75 00:06:31,323 --> 00:06:35,799 The Arab agency was, well, I'll give you an example. 76 00:06:35,799 --> 00:06:44,702 They arrived in Tel Aviv on April 7th and twenty days after, 77 00:06:44,702 --> 00:06:49,628 they were in school learning modern Hebrew because there were various Jews 78 00:06:49,628 --> 00:06:57,524 in Tel Aviv from every part of Europe. It was necessary 79 00:06:57,524 --> 00:07:02,929 to learn this common language. So, there was some organization, 80 00:07:02,929 --> 00:07:04,564 but there were a lot of problems. 81 00:07:04,564 --> 00:07:07,289 In any case, where I mentally find... - Ah yes. 82 00:07:07,289 --> 00:07:10,595 this small amount of protection. However, they had to start... 83 00:07:10,595 --> 00:07:12,525 Yes, they had to restart. - from scratch. 84 00:07:12,525 --> 00:07:17,122 On the other hand, however, there was a lot of bitterness 85 00:07:17,122 --> 00:07:21,340 that was left behind by the fact of having to abandon... 86 00:07:21,340 --> 00:07:22,836 Yes. - Italy. 87 00:07:22,836 --> 00:07:26,628 Having to leave Italy was stressful. - Yes. 88 00:07:26,749 --> 00:07:30,306 In regard to this, I will also read an excerpt 89 00:07:30,306 --> 00:07:35,063 from the letters that have been donated to the archive, 90 00:07:35,225 --> 00:07:43,208 diaries in which Ettore specifically tells about what he was feeling shortly after 91 00:07:43,208 --> 00:07:48,057 the time in which he abandoned Italy. 92 00:07:48,276 --> 00:07:52,974 We will read this excerpt: "When I left Italy four months ago, 93 00:07:53,371 --> 00:07:56,602 "feeling more disgusted by the burden of having to leave the country 94 00:07:56,602 --> 00:07:59,070 "than for the imminent danger, many of my colleagues 95 00:07:59,070 --> 00:08:02,338 "and friends were quick to express to me their discontent 96 00:08:02,338 --> 00:08:03,775 "about what was happening. 97 00:08:03,775 --> 00:08:06,795 "Through their conversations, I felt they knew about condolences 98 00:08:06,795 --> 00:08:09,086 "and they ended up only making me withdraw. 99 00:08:09,086 --> 00:08:14,534 "They were whispered conversations solely because they knew me 100 00:08:14,534 --> 00:08:17,645 "and thought highly of me. For many, being an example against 101 00:08:17,645 --> 00:08:21,431 "the persecution of Jews not being born in Italy, could also be considered fair, 102 00:08:21,431 --> 00:08:25,053 "because it is understood that they came to the country to make a fortune 103 00:08:25,053 --> 00:08:28,768 "by going behind other's backs. They had some expert political views. 104 00:08:28,768 --> 00:08:34,350 "The Fascist government's right to persecute people that it had let into 105 00:08:34,350 --> 00:08:36,691 "the country was generally recognized." 106 00:08:36,691 --> 00:08:40,211 Okay, so Ettore felt betrayed by Italy? 107 00:08:40,307 --> 00:08:45,098 Without a doubt. As I was saying prior, 108 00:08:45,098 --> 00:08:47,303 also because my father was from Trieste. 109 00:08:47,303 --> 00:08:54,207 From his father, my grandfather, he had also received an irredentist 110 00:08:54,207 --> 00:08:55,748 and nationalist upbringing. 111 00:08:55,748 --> 00:09:03,708 Trieste has always been divided between people from Trieste, Austria... 112 00:09:03,708 --> 00:09:05,838 Let's say Austrians. 113 00:09:05,838 --> 00:09:11,233 and irredentists, those who love Italy, Italian culture, 114 00:09:11,233 --> 00:09:14,880 Italian language, like my grandfather and the Slovenians. 115 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:23,093 He had received this upbringing, and so he was an irredentist nationalist. 116 00:09:23,093 --> 00:09:29,285 Additionally, he was a genius official, and he felt like an Italian. 117 00:09:29,298 --> 00:09:35,180 He loved Italy and he felt betrayed by this terrible law. 118 00:09:35,204 --> 00:09:44,099 In addition, in Ettore's letters, in this text, it also highlights 119 00:09:44,099 --> 00:09:47,715 a responsibility by the Italian people themselves 120 00:09:47,715 --> 00:09:49,372 for what was happening. 121 00:09:49,372 --> 00:09:51,262 He writes: "The political maturity 122 00:09:51,262 --> 00:09:54,098 "of the Italian people is apparently that of government rule 123 00:09:54,098 --> 00:09:56,365 "that it has and that it deserves." 124 00:09:56,365 --> 00:09:59,995 There is a precise responsibility by the people. 125 00:10:00,239 --> 00:10:04,913 Well, the Italian people's problem... (Laughter) 126 00:10:04,913 --> 00:10:09,871 Living yes... like saying living today like yesterday. 127 00:10:09,871 --> 00:10:16,071 In other words, the lack of personal responsibility 128 00:10:16,071 --> 00:10:24,675 and accepting anything, like a leader or a guide, 129 00:10:24,675 --> 00:10:30,443 that which has an uglier appearance, if you will. 130 00:10:30,881 --> 00:10:35,224 And that Trieste... Not coincidentally Mussolini 131 00:10:35,237 --> 00:10:38,622 and September 18, 1938, where they were 132 00:10:38,622 --> 00:10:42,658 at the Unity of Italy Square to present the Racial Laws. 133 00:10:42,658 --> 00:10:45,795 Not only because of the nationalism that was there, 134 00:10:46,974 --> 00:10:52,997 but because Trieste was a very multiethnic, multicultural city. 135 00:10:52,997 --> 00:10:59,819 There were more than two centuries in which ethnic groups were diverse. 136 00:10:59,819 --> 00:11:01,388 They coexisted. 137 00:11:01,388 --> 00:11:07,079 But at the very moment in which Mussolini showed his cruelty 138 00:11:07,079 --> 00:11:12,708 towards Jews, who, I repeat, were real Italians, and felt as such, 139 00:11:12,708 --> 00:11:17,621 and had also fought for Italy during the First World War, 140 00:11:17,621 --> 00:11:24,519 At the point, everyone was inclined to accept Fascist rule. 141 00:11:25,020 --> 00:11:30,380 We return to Ettore and Adelina, who, because of their decisions, 142 00:11:30,478 --> 00:11:39,183 leave the Second World War behind, in which the persecution of Jews 143 00:11:39,183 --> 00:11:41,616 and the holocaust is about to start. 144 00:11:41,616 --> 00:11:48,896 They leave behind the errors of the war, however, like you said, they face a life 145 00:11:48,896 --> 00:11:50,215 that is not easy. 146 00:11:50,215 --> 00:11:55,485 Like we said, Adelina was a lawyer with a great career. 147 00:11:55,485 --> 00:11:59,881 She finds herself having to start her work up again. 148 00:12:00,611 --> 00:12:05,582 Yes, because the main difficulty was a work shortage. 149 00:12:06,295 --> 00:12:10,355 There was an excess of workers (Laughter) 150 00:12:10,355 --> 00:12:14,541 from Tel Aviv. And then, there were few jobs 151 00:12:14,789 --> 00:12:16,960 or they were completely insecure. 152 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,650 Another big problem was a housing shortage. 153 00:12:21,539 --> 00:12:27,411 So much so that my parents were forced to live with a family, 154 00:12:27,411 --> 00:12:31,000 with a Polish family in an apartment. 155 00:12:31,410 --> 00:12:35,070 Above all, the main difficulty was the work shortage. 156 00:12:35,070 --> 00:12:40,090 Also because the two bags of the two thousand stars were not 157 00:12:40,290 --> 00:12:44,628 to be touched at all. My father was not flexible. 158 00:12:45,100 --> 00:12:53,968 My mom then, as long as my father remained in Tel Aviv until August 23, 1944, 159 00:12:53,968 --> 00:12:58,020 when he went to work at the British oil refinery... 160 00:12:58,020 --> 00:12:59,034 (Interviewer Talking) 161 00:12:59,034 --> 00:13:03,995 No, he was also with my mom because they then had my sister first, 162 00:13:04,364 --> 00:13:09,681 and then I was born in 1942. So when my father left, 163 00:13:10,056 --> 00:13:18,046 he felt the obligation to work to support the family. 164 00:13:18,046 --> 00:13:25,139 He also liked the idea of having money to freely spend. 165 00:13:25,500 --> 00:13:30,457 As mentioned, your mother was free... - Yes, free. 166 00:13:30,457 --> 00:13:31,946 in Palestine. - Yes. 167 00:13:31,946 --> 00:13:36,364 Your father, on the other hand, had to move abroad to Persia 168 00:13:36,364 --> 00:13:41,699 because, meanwhile, he found work with an oil company. 169 00:13:41,966 --> 00:13:48,182 So two lovers who find themselves far apart in a foreign land, 170 00:13:48,182 --> 00:13:53,277 and the only point of contact between these two people becomes 171 00:13:53,277 --> 00:13:56,655 the writing, the letters that will then become so important 172 00:13:56,655 --> 00:14:00,166 for documentation, for their memories. - Yes. 173 00:14:00,166 --> 00:14:05,822 In fact, if my father accepts this two year contract 174 00:14:05,832 --> 00:14:13,273 with this Iranian company, he would be in Abadan in Persia. 175 00:14:13,294 --> 00:14:17,100 And it was indeed a military zone. 176 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:21,607 He would do his work there as an industrial chemist. 177 00:14:21,909 --> 00:14:26,927 Of course, he had to detach and leave his wife, 178 00:14:26,927 --> 00:14:28,767 his children in Tel Aviv. 179 00:14:28,767 --> 00:14:36,060 Then, although very tired, every evening my mom wrote 180 00:14:36,222 --> 00:14:42,459 and reported what had happened during her workday, 181 00:14:42,459 --> 00:14:46,612 because she had found work with a company that was part 182 00:14:46,612 --> 00:14:50,951 of the Tel Aviv pharmaceutical industry. After then being fired, 183 00:14:51,315 --> 00:14:59,116 she went to work at a house to iron. So, she could do anything. 184 00:14:59,116 --> 00:15:07,268 She reported with great ability, descriptive, careful about everything 185 00:15:07,268 --> 00:15:13,072 that went on during the day. Rather, my father sometimes wrote letters 186 00:15:13,072 --> 00:15:17,600 with extensive description. He explained to her a bit about his duty, 187 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:22,722 weather problems because it was very hot, relationships with the British, 188 00:15:22,765 --> 00:15:28,004 and with the local population that was in truly devastating conditions. 189 00:15:28,045 --> 00:15:31,806 They were letters that, among other things... 190 00:15:31,816 --> 00:15:37,467 If you permit me a tangent. They were things one absolutely knew 191 00:15:37,467 --> 00:15:41,403 but I didn't even know the letters existed. 192 00:15:41,686 --> 00:15:46,456 Then perhaps we can also elaborate on how they were found. 193 00:15:46,506 --> 00:15:50,774 Then also about how the decision to publish them came about. 194 00:15:50,940 --> 00:15:54,618 Let's go back. We had said that while Ettore 195 00:15:54,618 --> 00:15:58,273 and Adelina were in Palestine, their children were born. 196 00:15:58,273 --> 00:15:59,983 Yes, my sister... - You were born 197 00:15:59,983 --> 00:16:01,530 and your sister Ana was born. 198 00:16:01,866 --> 00:16:06,705 It is fitting that the future of these two children was often focused on 199 00:16:06,705 --> 00:16:10,717 in these letters that Ettore and Adelina exchange. 200 00:16:10,916 --> 00:16:14,129 I would like to read another particularly significant passage 201 00:16:14,242 --> 00:16:22,709 that is again written by Ettore from Abadan in February 23, 1945: 202 00:16:23,141 --> 00:16:26,775 "If on one hand, the war tends to be nearing its end, on the other, 203 00:16:26,775 --> 00:16:30,075 "for us, the situation in Palestine is taking a favorable turn. 204 00:16:30,301 --> 00:16:34,102 "These days, I am overthinking and continuously thinking 205 00:16:34,102 --> 00:16:38,554 "about the problem and worried, not so much about our personal future, 206 00:16:38,554 --> 00:16:42,247 "but the future of our children. I feel irresistibly taken towards 207 00:16:42,247 --> 00:16:45,734 "a solution that, although never once explored, 208 00:16:45,734 --> 00:16:47,487 "today seems inevitable to me. 209 00:16:47,643 --> 00:16:53,868 "Perhaps in a year's time we will find the need to have to return to Italy. 210 00:16:54,008 --> 00:16:57,616 "Then they will become one hundred percent Italians." 211 00:16:58,070 --> 00:17:04,482 Probably if your father could have chosen, he would have never wanted 212 00:17:04,493 --> 00:17:05,595 to return to Italy. 213 00:17:05,639 --> 00:17:09,197 Yes, I would not have wanted to also. Quite the opposite because my father, 214 00:17:09,585 --> 00:17:17,660 due to having been betrayed by Italy, deeply desired to return to Italy. 215 00:17:17,700 --> 00:17:21,045 Apart from the experience in Abadan, also because life 216 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:28,240 in Palestine was truly very hard, very difficult because 217 00:17:28,538 --> 00:17:35,718 of the work problem, and the problem of the lack of apartments. 218 00:17:35,718 --> 00:17:40,415 However, we can't forget that the attention 219 00:17:40,415 --> 00:17:47,410 from the Palestinian Arabs and the British made life difficult. 220 00:17:47,977 --> 00:17:53,307 If we could return back in time... - Yes. 221 00:17:53,860 --> 00:18:02,483 In September 1940, Tel Aviv was bombed by Italian planes, right? 222 00:18:02,483 --> 00:18:07,620 Yes. - They bombed Tel Aviv 223 00:18:07,620 --> 00:18:10,527 and it seems like there were one hundred and fifty two deaths. 224 00:18:10,538 --> 00:18:14,967 So life was very hard. Another tangent. 225 00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:21,822 I mean, one of the big problems was also food. 226 00:18:22,253 --> 00:18:29,133 For example, my sister and I went to the gan, which was like kindergarten. 227 00:18:29,133 --> 00:18:33,281 To help you understand, at lunch they used to give us half an egg to eat. 228 00:18:34,471 --> 00:18:38,389 On the other hand, while facing this situation, 229 00:18:38,389 --> 00:18:45,753 the hope of returning to Italy continuously remained. 230 00:18:45,866 --> 00:18:49,513 And how did Adelina live with the hope of returning? 231 00:18:49,513 --> 00:18:55,398 I will read another significant passage: "I will never ask those taking that step. 232 00:18:55,410 --> 00:18:59,731 "Here I feel undoubtedly hesitant by instinct and by force of tradition. 233 00:18:59,842 --> 00:19:02,511 "And I won't ever ask myself, not only out of obedience, 234 00:19:02,511 --> 00:19:06,123 "but because more than anything else, I am concerned 235 00:19:06,123 --> 00:19:10,627 "about doing everything possible for the future of our children." 236 00:19:10,897 --> 00:19:14,784 It's like saying, she was also willing to do her part. 237 00:19:14,784 --> 00:19:18,704 There was a sense of pride of returning to Italy, 238 00:19:18,758 --> 00:19:22,306 that country that had dismissed them, in order to guarantee 239 00:19:22,306 --> 00:19:24,000 a future for you children. 240 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,914 Here there is a... (Laughter) 241 00:19:27,914 --> 00:19:31,716 There are many letters. In any case, when my father says 242 00:19:31,716 --> 00:19:34,439 that they will become one hundred percent Italians, 243 00:19:34,839 --> 00:19:43,788 he also proposes to my mom the idea of converting to Catholicism, 244 00:19:43,934 --> 00:19:46,407 because we were Jews. - (Interviewer) Of course. 245 00:19:46,947 --> 00:19:55,228 Meanwhile, the Finzi from Trieste were almost completely assimilated. 246 00:19:55,477 --> 00:19:58,485 That is to say, they went to the temple twice a year. 247 00:19:59,018 --> 00:20:04,070 Instead, my mom was from a much more orthodox family, 248 00:20:04,394 --> 00:20:12,133 They came from the Parrdo, a very important Iberian family. 249 00:20:12,243 --> 00:20:18,744 Parrdo which used to be Prado. They came from Spain after the expulsion. 250 00:20:18,744 --> 00:20:25,372 So my father proposes this idea of converting to Catholicism 251 00:20:25,539 --> 00:20:30,822 in order for his children... - To become... 252 00:20:30,845 --> 00:20:34,506 Yes, to become entirely Italian, even as a religion. 253 00:20:34,546 --> 00:20:39,192 However my mom... Here it says that she was reluctant. 254 00:20:39,192 --> 00:20:46,739 Not because she was personally orthodox, but because, in that moment when 255 00:20:46,755 --> 00:20:51,589 it was known what was happening in Europe, the extermination camps 256 00:20:51,603 --> 00:20:56,844 or another difficult situation, they absolutely didn't know 257 00:20:56,844 --> 00:21:00,557 where my paternal and maternal grandparents were. 258 00:21:00,576 --> 00:21:08,617 Then, however, the news arrived, even betraying the origin and... 259 00:21:08,617 --> 00:21:12,320 It was quite heavy. - Yes, very heavy. 260 00:21:12,716 --> 00:21:18,527 By the way, how did the news about the war arrive meanwhile 261 00:21:18,527 --> 00:21:22,558 it continued in Europe? Was there just an awareness 262 00:21:22,558 --> 00:21:25,522 of what was happening? Was there an awareness 263 00:21:25,522 --> 00:21:29,823 of the existence of the extermination camps? 264 00:21:29,823 --> 00:21:32,752 Above all, how did they also live with these dual feelings? 265 00:21:32,752 --> 00:21:34,860 Because, on the one hand, there was this hope 266 00:21:34,860 --> 00:21:38,927 of being able to return one day to a normal life in Italy. 267 00:21:39,219 --> 00:21:42,063 On the other hand, however, there was a lot of fear 268 00:21:42,063 --> 00:21:43,818 also for the fate of loved ones. 269 00:21:44,824 --> 00:21:46,517 They knew everything. 270 00:21:47,017 --> 00:21:52,128 Both about the Jewish agency and the British. 271 00:21:52,571 --> 00:21:56,747 The news arrived quite detailed. 272 00:21:57,497 --> 00:22:05,452 I don't want to forget a noteworthy group of young Jews that were part 273 00:22:05,813 --> 00:22:09,149 of the Jewish brigade. 274 00:22:09,677 --> 00:22:16,170 They fought alongside the British and they also fought in Italy. 275 00:22:16,170 --> 00:22:18,341 Then in all of Europe. 276 00:22:18,341 --> 00:22:26,481 They were the ones who said that they gave very detailed news 277 00:22:26,481 --> 00:22:27,564 of what was happening. 278 00:22:27,607 --> 00:22:33,865 So, they knew about everything that was coming to Italy and Europe. 279 00:22:34,403 --> 00:22:43,692 The concerns were about my paternal grandparents, 280 00:22:43,692 --> 00:22:47,884 those who later died in Auschwitz, that they didn't... 281 00:22:47,884 --> 00:22:55,785 The last official news was transmitted by a type of telegram of the Red Cross 282 00:22:55,785 --> 00:23:01,763 in July of 1943. My father knew absolutely nothing. 283 00:23:02,081 --> 00:23:09,052 My mom didn't know. She knew that her parents were hidden. 284 00:23:09,062 --> 00:23:10,957 Her brother was in Switzerland. 285 00:23:11,467 --> 00:23:14,317 But they had absolutely no news. 286 00:23:14,577 --> 00:23:21,794 They couldn't say or write anything because the mail was altered. 287 00:23:22,605 --> 00:23:26,074 Outgoing and incoming mail was altered. 288 00:23:26,634 --> 00:23:30,784 I found that at least some details in the letters had been deleted precisely 289 00:23:30,784 --> 00:23:36,704 in the letters had been deleted precisely by the person that did the alterations. 290 00:23:36,704 --> 00:23:40,883 So, my father needed to be careful because they were altered by the British. 291 00:23:41,214 --> 00:23:45,502 They were altered by the Persians. Then they were altered on arrival 292 00:23:45,719 --> 00:23:47,244 in Palestine. So, they were... 293 00:23:47,469 --> 00:23:50,585 In this situation, they also found themselves in a state 294 00:23:50,953 --> 00:23:56,175 of uncertainty being far from Europe, far from what was happening in Europe, 295 00:23:56,316 --> 00:23:58,752 far from the war. 296 00:23:58,919 --> 00:24:13,446 For a moment, Adelina perhaps had hoped that her family would have an advantage 297 00:24:13,613 --> 00:24:17,880 over the immense tragedy that afflicted the Jews of Europe, 298 00:24:18,035 --> 00:24:21,555 that they would all find themselves reunited upon their return. 299 00:24:21,737 --> 00:24:23,905 There was almost this illusion, this hope. 300 00:24:24,070 --> 00:24:28,838 Hope is often the last idea. There was hope. 301 00:24:29,005 --> 00:24:38,306 They didn't have detailed news. My father's brother was a doctor 302 00:24:38,471 --> 00:24:48,990 who lived in Bologna in the mountains of Monghidoro. 303 00:24:49,147 --> 00:24:55,290 He knew that his parents had been arrested, 304 00:24:55,473 --> 00:24:59,223 that they had been deported. However, he had not communicated anything. 305 00:24:59,390 --> 00:25:05,907 Even though, hypothetically they went to Auschwitz, there could have always been 306 00:25:06,041 --> 00:25:11,741 the hope of returning. Therefore, they hoped. 307 00:25:11,891 --> 00:25:15,775 Unfortunately, however, the terrible news was that they arrived. 308 00:25:15,925 --> 00:25:19,859 They arrived in Palestine while the war by now... 309 00:25:20,175 --> 00:25:22,092 It was over. - By now it was over. 310 00:25:22,276 --> 00:25:26,075 And like you said, the terrible news arrived by mail. 311 00:25:26,425 --> 00:25:31,160 News so terrible that Adelina cannot even transcribe them 312 00:25:31,532 --> 00:25:34,243 in a letter to Ettore. She writes: 313 00:25:34,443 --> 00:25:38,235 "My dear, unfortunately, the dreary news has arrived. 314 00:25:38,408 --> 00:25:40,450 "I am sending you the letter because I don't have the courage 315 00:25:40,711 --> 00:25:42,327 "to write to you about it with my own pen." 316 00:25:42,659 --> 00:25:46,786 It's terrible. Unfortunately, they were reactions 317 00:25:46,944 --> 00:25:51,568 to what had just happened in the war in Europe. 318 00:25:51,726 --> 00:25:55,814 In a communication letter separate from the international cross. 319 00:25:55,977 --> 00:25:59,343 Maybe in that exact moment Ettore and Adelina understood 320 00:25:59,503 --> 00:26:03,378 what they had escaped from? 321 00:26:03,552 --> 00:26:08,954 Yes without a doubt. I will also tell you 322 00:26:09,097 --> 00:26:14,162 that when my father had the idea of going to Palestine, 323 00:26:14,365 --> 00:26:19,670 everyone criticized him; friends, parents, brothers, the sister, 324 00:26:19,916 --> 00:26:24,963 because they said that he was always pessimistic. 325 00:26:25,245 --> 00:26:31,417 He would rather have wanted them all to also come with him. 326 00:26:31,578 --> 00:26:43,906 However, he expected it, also because the war in Europe ended on May 8, 1945. 327 00:26:44,223 --> 00:26:50,847 The news gets to him in August. Given that months go by 328 00:26:51,097 --> 00:26:57,364 where he doesn't receive positive news, he feared for the lives of his parents. 329 00:26:57,674 --> 00:27:00,564 Excuse me but if you permit me. - (Interviewer) Of course. 330 00:27:00,731 --> 00:27:07,650 But before the communication about the deaths of his parents, 331 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:15,083 he received communication from Sweden that said his sister was saved. 332 00:27:15,416 --> 00:27:23,270 Then my aunt Yolanda Clara was part of that group of prisoners 333 00:27:23,433 --> 00:27:28,159 that were moved from Auschwitz in December 1944. 334 00:27:28,309 --> 00:27:32,160 They were moved west so as not to leave a mass 335 00:27:32,325 --> 00:27:38,943 of prisoners in Auschwitz, because the Red Army was coming. 336 00:27:39,094 --> 00:27:49,228 She was then liberated in the north of Ravensbrück in April 1945. 337 00:27:49,401 --> 00:27:53,152 She was then transferred to Sweden to recover. 338 00:27:53,435 --> 00:27:59,169 We have said that at this point, the war had ended and Ettore and Adelina 339 00:27:59,403 --> 00:28:04,586 along with their children decide to return to Italy. 340 00:28:04,874 --> 00:28:08,854 How difficult was it once again to start from scratch because they actually had 341 00:28:09,187 --> 00:28:10,504 to start from scratch. 342 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,419 Ah yes. It was difficult. 343 00:28:12,579 --> 00:28:17,171 My father's brother, who had worked in Sansepolcro, 344 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,813 helped him get a job at his work. He spoke with Mr. Marco Vittoni 345 00:28:21,104 --> 00:28:25,154 and he said he was quite willing to hire his brother 346 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:30,489 because he was a chemist. Mr. Vittoni wanted a change of pace 347 00:28:30,622 --> 00:28:38,070 for his company. But when we arrived in Italy in May 1946, 348 00:28:38,272 --> 00:28:41,614 with a short stop in Bologna and then to Parma at the home 349 00:28:41,761 --> 00:28:45,331 of my maternal grandparents, and then to Sansepolcro precisely 350 00:28:45,496 --> 00:28:51,122 in November of 1946, we had absolutely nothing. 351 00:28:51,898 --> 00:28:54,472 And there was nothing... (Laughter) 352 00:28:54,715 --> 00:28:58,672 Without a doubt, a country in devastation. - Yes, a country in devastation. 353 00:28:58,806 --> 00:29:03,830 I remember the path with holes. I remember the Tower of Berta Square 354 00:29:03,995 --> 00:29:06,683 in a pile of ruins. - The Tower of Berta Square was destroyed. 355 00:29:06,871 --> 00:29:16,690 I repeat, it was also a problem to eat. I remember my father rented 356 00:29:17,267 --> 00:29:19,492 a furnished apartment in Saint Claire Square 357 00:29:19,801 --> 00:29:22,829 in which the conditions were... - Insecure. 358 00:29:23,067 --> 00:29:26,059 Very, very insecure. However, they were young 359 00:29:26,217 --> 00:29:31,342 and they wanted to start over. There was my sister and myself. 360 00:29:31,492 --> 00:29:39,382 So, they wanted to put a painful time of their lives behind them and start over. 361 00:29:39,646 --> 00:29:44,242 You have previously already answered that there was resentment towards 362 00:29:44,409 --> 00:29:49,694 that country that made them escape and also towards those friends 363 00:29:49,861 --> 00:29:52,450 that... - No. 364 00:29:52,636 --> 00:29:58,228 had put down the idea of the... - No, absolutely not. 365 00:29:58,566 --> 00:30:02,660 Other than it being something that is part of our DNA, 366 00:30:02,947 --> 00:30:10,765 resentment is useless. It's best to move forward, 367 00:30:10,949 --> 00:30:17,245 to have the will to start again and to overcome difficulties. 368 00:30:17,420 --> 00:30:21,438 Not resentment. I never heard my father 369 00:30:21,604 --> 00:30:29,395 nor my mother speak ill of Italians. Yes, it was upsetting to have lost. 370 00:30:29,521 --> 00:30:36,502 To having lost parents. To having lost years of work. 371 00:30:36,652 --> 00:30:40,513 My mom could not return to work in Milan because there was no way 372 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,906 to find a home. 373 00:30:43,208 --> 00:30:52,924 In 2011, Ettore Finzi's and Adelina's epistolary was donated 374 00:30:53,135 --> 00:30:57,000 to the Pieve diary archives. It's awarded the Premio Pieve. 375 00:30:57,148 --> 00:31:02,848 First and foremost, how were you able to find these letters again, 376 00:31:03,048 --> 00:31:06,449 because they were made public by the decision of donating them. 377 00:31:06,587 --> 00:31:11,526 My father died on June 18, 2002. 378 00:31:11,874 --> 00:31:20,992 He lived in an apartment in Parma. In August I was ready to let go of it. 379 00:31:21,572 --> 00:31:31,633 By chance, I found a bag in his office, a leather one that held documents. 380 00:31:32,101 --> 00:31:37,794 There were letters inside this document holder. 381 00:31:38,901 --> 00:31:43,298 And there were two notebooks, black ones with a red border 382 00:31:43,298 --> 00:31:46,604 that were used in the past, and inside were his diaries. 383 00:31:47,097 --> 00:31:52,133 I understood right away because I have done historical research 384 00:31:52,550 --> 00:31:55,916 for many years, so I understood it was something interesting. 385 00:31:56,322 --> 00:31:59,600 I found it strange that my father never told me anything, 386 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:05,991 because he didn't say to me that there were letters and diaries. 387 00:32:06,401 --> 00:32:10,001 And so I took them all to my house, to my office and I left them there 388 00:32:10,959 --> 00:32:15,650 for a year, a year and a half. Then I slowly began to read them 389 00:32:16,010 --> 00:32:17,134 with a bit of fear. 390 00:32:17,768 --> 00:32:22,178 Because with diaries and letters... - One will find... 391 00:32:22,424 --> 00:32:25,719 always find something intimate. Then I think in my family, 392 00:32:25,969 --> 00:32:31,644 nothing would ever be talked about. No one had ever commented, 393 00:32:31,844 --> 00:32:37,909 or made references. Then I gradually began 394 00:32:38,086 --> 00:32:42,287 to transcribe these letters. I can't tell you how I did so, 395 00:32:42,574 --> 00:32:45,403 because they were truly written... - Strictly handwritten. 396 00:32:45,603 --> 00:32:50,720 Yes, handwritten with a fountain pen, on tissue paper, because back then 397 00:32:50,913 --> 00:32:56,686 it was airmail paper. It was a type of job 398 00:32:56,837 --> 00:33:02,280 that strained the eyes. In any case, I did this transcription job 399 00:33:02,959 --> 00:33:08,326 of the diary, of the letters, etc. I had the idea of publishing it. 400 00:33:08,864 --> 00:33:16,182 The full version of this diary, of these letters... 401 00:33:16,645 --> 00:33:24,709 I had already collaborated with the diary archives 402 00:33:24,990 --> 00:33:35,338 for some time for my research. In any case, just to be certain, 403 00:33:35,489 --> 00:33:39,808 I went to Pieve Santo Stefano and I had this volume in hand. 404 00:33:39,990 --> 00:33:46,433 It was Cristina Cangi, who you will meet. She asked me: 405 00:33:46,776 --> 00:33:49,391 "What is it professor?" - "It's this work that I did." 406 00:33:49,574 --> 00:33:52,767 "Why don't you submit if for the award." 407 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,367 I say I really had not thought about wanting to publish it. 408 00:33:57,545 --> 00:34:05,186 I start reading some interesting things and then I submit it. 409 00:34:05,545 --> 00:34:10,042 They asked me for the archive and also for the letters, 410 00:34:10,226 --> 00:34:11,925 but I wasn't going to do that. 411 00:34:12,091 --> 00:34:17,047 I remember that it's possible to read this publication 412 00:34:17,197 --> 00:34:21,411 that is titled "Transparent", in which the documentation 413 00:34:21,551 --> 00:34:24,031 is presented and published by Il Mulino. 414 00:34:24,226 --> 00:34:29,046 Our arrangement time has ended, although we would like to talk for hours 415 00:34:29,186 --> 00:34:34,135 about this story that is a bit, by certain passages and elements, 416 00:34:34,302 --> 00:34:36,610 similar to the story of many other families, 417 00:34:36,845 --> 00:34:41,818 also of the province of Arezzo. Perhaps there will be a way 418 00:34:41,954 --> 00:34:46,937 to talk more about it in the future. Thank you Daniele Finzi. 419 00:34:47,111 --> 00:34:52,872 Thanks to all of you who have followed our episode, 420 00:34:53,021 --> 00:34:55,396 a special episode that has been made possible 421 00:34:55,562 --> 00:35:00,545 in collaboration with The Archives of Pieve Santo Stefano. 422 00:35:00,730 --> 00:35:04,263 I naturally thank you as well. In particular, 423 00:35:04,463 --> 00:35:09,735 the archives for this episode were made available 424 00:35:09,885 --> 00:35:12,535 by Nadia Frulli. Thank you to all of you 425 00:35:12,747 --> 00:35:15,413 for watching the program.