1 00:00:06,265 --> 00:00:10,250 People from Here 2 00:00:12,299 --> 00:00:17,240 Welcome back to People from Here. What we want to tell you today 3 00:00:17,240 --> 00:00:22,803 is the story of two young people, of two young people with high hopes. 4 00:00:22,803 --> 00:00:27,037 There is Adelina, a brilliant lawyer who works 5 00:00:27,039 --> 00:00:32,258 at a prestigious legal firm in Milan. Then there is Ettore, 6 00:00:32,261 --> 00:00:36,608 an industrial chemist. The future can only smile 7 00:00:36,608 --> 00:00:40,100 upon Adelina and Ettore. Actually, 8 00:00:40,166 --> 00:00:46,318 their future will be more turbulent thank they could have ever imagined. 9 00:00:46,645 --> 00:00:53,576 In fact, in 1938 Ettore and Adelina are Jewish. 10 00:00:53,703 --> 00:01:00,917 On September 18th, from the balcony of Trieste's town hall, 11 00:01:01,242 --> 00:01:06,207 Benito Mussolini announced for the first time the Racial Laws 12 00:01:06,322 --> 00:01:08,160 for the defense of the race. 13 00:01:08,526 --> 00:01:16,728 The world of those two young people suddenly collapses under their feet. 14 00:01:17,146 --> 00:01:22,487 We will tell this story about Ettore and Adelina 15 00:01:22,719 --> 00:01:27,145 on the eve of the day. We will tell it with the son 16 00:01:27,188 --> 00:01:31,820 of Ettore and Adelina, Daniele Finzi, who in 2011, 17 00:01:32,131 --> 00:01:38,099 decided to donate his parents letters and documents 18 00:01:38,099 --> 00:01:42,254 to The Archives of Pieve Santo Stefano. 19 00:01:42,254 --> 00:01:46,544 Shortly we will also discuss why this choice was made. 20 00:01:46,544 --> 00:01:50,991 Now I would like to start with September 1938. 21 00:01:50,991 --> 00:01:58,047 with Mussolini's announcement of the laws for the defense of the race. 22 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,623 Ettore and Adelina immediately started to understand that there wasn't 23 00:02:02,623 --> 00:02:05,614 a future for them in that country. 24 00:02:05,614 --> 00:02:10,221 Deciding to leave their country was a difficult decision, 25 00:02:10,221 --> 00:02:14,801 a difficult decision, but one that will save their lives. 26 00:02:15,174 --> 00:02:25,792 Yes, my father Ettore Finzi was very knowledgable about history. 27 00:02:26,319 --> 00:02:29,599 Also because he knew German very well. 28 00:02:29,849 --> 00:02:34,349 He had two aunts, aunt Genie and aunt Lazigudita Gentiluomo, 29 00:02:34,349 --> 00:02:36,430 who both lived in Vienna. 30 00:02:36,583 --> 00:02:45,924 He had followed all the Nazi antisemitism up to March 1938. 31 00:02:45,924 --> 00:02:56,795 So when the Race Manifesto was published in July 1938, he didn't expect it. 32 00:02:57,048 --> 00:03:02,767 He knew what the contents were about and he also hoped that Italy would be 33 00:03:02,782 --> 00:03:06,960 a little different from Germany. 34 00:03:07,423 --> 00:03:17,220 And my father, more than my mother, made quick and immediate decisions. 35 00:03:17,220 --> 00:03:21,670 He was also very intuitive. He had known my mom only a few months, 36 00:03:21,679 --> 00:03:25,258 and he returns to these months in April 1938. 37 00:03:25,936 --> 00:03:32,775 It was love at first sight and because of the Race Manifesto 38 00:03:32,775 --> 00:03:35,583 and the Racial Laws, they decided to get married. 39 00:03:35,613 --> 00:03:39,811 They were married in Milan on December 1, 1938. 40 00:03:40,027 --> 00:03:43,868 In 1938. We arrive in 1939. - Yes. 41 00:03:43,868 --> 00:03:46,459 An ominous date for many. - Yes. 42 00:03:46,459 --> 00:03:49,173 Very unjust, but there is a turning point. - There is a... 43 00:03:49,173 --> 00:03:55,598 Ettore and Adelina decide to leave. Or rather, how do they depart? 44 00:03:55,598 --> 00:03:58,246 Because, in a sense, they leave informed. 45 00:03:58,246 --> 00:04:03,779 Yes and no. The problem is immediate 46 00:04:03,786 --> 00:04:05,919 and that of money. 47 00:04:06,204 --> 00:04:13,857 Because the White Paper of the British, a policy from maybe February 48 00:04:13,890 --> 00:04:22,536 or March of 1939, allowed a total of 75,000 Jews 49 00:04:22,617 --> 00:04:27,156 to enter Palestine for five years. 50 00:04:27,553 --> 00:04:33,039 However, to qualify to enter, every person needed to have 1,000 stars. 51 00:04:33,039 --> 00:04:36,757 Because, like we said, they had chosen. - To go to... 52 00:04:36,757 --> 00:04:38,626 The goal was Palestine. - Yes. 53 00:04:38,626 --> 00:04:43,533 The choice was not a coincidence, because my father had also thought 54 00:04:43,546 --> 00:04:44,950 about Latin America. 55 00:04:45,199 --> 00:04:50,948 But the idea of going to Palestine was because it was nearby. 56 00:04:50,948 --> 00:04:53,981 He was from Trieste so it was close. 57 00:04:53,981 --> 00:04:58,002 He also hoped his parents could join him. 58 00:04:58,002 --> 00:05:00,850 In any case, the issue of money was really 59 00:05:00,850 --> 00:05:04,243 a huge problem because they didn't have any. 60 00:05:04,571 --> 00:05:09,219 So, thanks to the lawyer Gianni Morandi, who was the owner of the firm 61 00:05:09,374 --> 00:05:16,177 where my mom worked, they went to Zurich for their honeymoon. 62 00:05:16,485 --> 00:05:21,335 Then they went to Lugano to gather clients for the lawyer. 63 00:05:21,652 --> 00:05:26,441 It was to put towards this large sum. And I still remember two leather bags 64 00:05:26,624 --> 00:05:32,586 with thousands of little stars inside. They were gold little stars. 65 00:05:32,992 --> 00:05:38,496 At this point, they reach Palestine. A tangent here about Palestine. 66 00:05:38,496 --> 00:05:42,260 The State of Israel still didn't exist. 67 00:05:42,260 --> 00:05:47,213 There wasn't any money to protect them. Therefore, they had to start from scratch. 68 00:05:47,213 --> 00:05:52,988 Yes, and so, they started all over again from January to April 1, 1939. 69 00:05:52,988 --> 00:05:57,214 They arrived in Haifa on April 6th. 70 00:05:57,461 --> 00:06:05,748 Yes, because as of 1922, the British controlled Palestine. 71 00:06:06,155 --> 00:06:12,740 There were Palestinian Arabs. The Jewish Palestinians were organized 72 00:06:12,740 --> 00:06:20,844 by the Yishuv, who were more concerned with the kibbutz and wanted 73 00:06:20,844 --> 00:06:24,006 to dedicate themselves to agriculture, etc. 74 00:06:24,006 --> 00:06:31,323 But the foundation, the political one, was led by the Arab agency. 75 00:06:31,323 --> 00:06:35,799 The Arab agency was, well, I'll give you an example. 76 00:06:35,799 --> 00:06:44,702 They arrived in Tel Aviv on April 7th and twenty days after, 77 00:06:44,702 --> 00:06:49,628 they were in school learning modern Hebrew because there were various Jews 78 00:06:49,628 --> 00:06:57,524 in Tel Aviv from every part of Europe. It was necessary 79 00:06:57,524 --> 00:07:02,929 to learn this common language. So, there was some organization, 80 00:07:02,929 --> 00:07:04,564 but there were a lot of problems. 81 00:07:04,564 --> 00:07:07,289 In any case, where I mentally find... - Ah yes. 82 00:07:07,289 --> 00:07:10,595 this small amount of protection. However, they had to start... 83 00:07:10,595 --> 00:07:12,525 Yes, they had to restart. - from scratch. 84 00:07:12,525 --> 00:07:17,122 On the other hand, however, there was a lot of bitterness 85 00:07:17,122 --> 00:07:21,340 that was left behind by the fact of having to abandon... 86 00:07:21,340 --> 00:07:22,836 Yes. - Italy. 87 00:07:22,836 --> 00:07:26,628 Having to leave Italy was stressful. - Yes. 88 00:07:26,749 --> 00:07:30,306 In regard to this, I will also read an excerpt 89 00:07:30,306 --> 00:07:35,063 from the letters that have been donated to the archive, 90 00:07:35,225 --> 00:07:43,208 diaries in which Ettore specifically tells about what he was feeling shortly after 91 00:07:43,208 --> 00:07:48,057 the time in which he abandoned Italy. 92 00:07:48,276 --> 00:07:52,974 We will read this excerpt: "When I left Italy four months ago, 93 00:07:53,391 --> 00:07:57,650 "feeling more disgusted by the burden of having to leave the country 94 00:07:57,964 --> 00:07:59,459 "than for the imminent danger, many of my colleagues 95 00:07:59,750 --> 00:08:02,608 "and friends were quick to express to me their discontent 96 00:08:02,841 --> 00:08:05,235 "about what was happening. Through their conversations, 97 00:08:05,483 --> 00:08:08,958 "I felt they knew what sympathy meant, and they only ended up making me withdraw. 98 00:08:09,226 --> 00:08:14,584 "They were whispered conversations solely because they knew me 99 00:08:14,842 --> 00:08:17,731 "and thought highly of me. For many, being an example against 100 00:08:17,985 --> 00:08:24,193 "the persecution of Jews not being born in Italy, could also be considered fair, 101 00:08:24,409 --> 00:08:26,469 "because it is understood that they came to the country to make a fortune 102 00:08:26,732 --> 00:08:28,968 "by going behind other's backs. They had some expert political views. 103 00:08:29,176 --> 00:08:35,300 "The Fascist government's right to persecute people that it had let into 104 00:08:35,467 --> 00:08:36,661 "the country was generally recognized." 105 00:08:36,911 --> 00:08:40,151 Okay, so Ettore felt betrayed by Italy? 106 00:08:40,349 --> 00:08:45,278 Without a doubt. As I was saying prior, 107 00:08:45,428 --> 00:08:50,445 also because my father was from Trieste. From his father, my grandfather, 108 00:08:50,917 --> 00:08:55,412 he had also received an irredentist and nationalist upbringing. 109 00:08:55,978 --> 00:09:00,278 Trieste has always been divided between people from Trieste 110 00:09:00,462 --> 00:09:11,230 and irredentists, those who love Italy, Italian culture, 111 00:09:11,380 --> 00:09:14,880 Italian language, like my grandfather and the Slovenians. 112 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:23,013 He had received this upbringing, and so he was an irredentist nationalist. 113 00:09:23,214 --> 00:09:29,035 Additionally, he was a genius official, and he felt like an Italian. 114 00:09:29,368 --> 00:09:35,080 He loved Italy and he felt betrayed by this terrible law. 115 00:09:35,264 --> 00:09:42,381 In addition, in Ettore's letters, in this text, it also highlights 116 00:09:42,549 --> 00:09:47,715 a responsibility by the Italian people themselves 117 00:09:48,270 --> 00:09:49,292 for what was happening. 118 00:09:49,639 --> 00:09:51,292 He writes: "The political maturity 119 00:09:51,508 --> 00:09:54,488 "of the Italian people is apparently that of government rule 120 00:09:54,716 --> 00:09:56,365 "that it has and that it deserves." 121 00:09:56,567 --> 00:09:59,855 There is a precise responsibility by the people. 122 00:10:00,039 --> 00:10:05,017 Well, the Italian people's problem... (Laughter) 123 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:09,701 is like saying living today like yesterday. 124 00:10:09,999 --> 00:10:13,734 In other words, the lack of personal responsibility 125 00:10:13,967 --> 00:10:24,835 and accepting anything, like a leader or a guide, 126 00:10:24,967 --> 00:10:30,443 that which has an uglier appearance, if you will. 127 00:10:30,775 --> 00:10:34,994 And that Trieste... Not coincidentally Mussolini 128 00:10:35,327 --> 00:10:39,152 and September 18, 1938, where they were 129 00:10:39,323 --> 00:10:42,678 at the Unity of Italy Square to present the Racial Laws. 130 00:10:42,860 --> 00:10:45,795 Not only because of the nationalism that was there, 131 00:10:46,144 --> 00:10:53,087 but because Trieste was a very multiethnic, multicultural city. 132 00:10:53,251 --> 00:10:58,520 There were more than two centuries in which ethnic groups were diverse. 133 00:10:58,669 --> 00:11:02,447 They coexisted. But at that very moment 134 00:11:02,598 --> 00:11:08,654 in which Mussolini showed his cruelty towards Jews, who, I repeat, 135 00:11:08,788 --> 00:11:14,354 were real Italians, and felt as such, and had also fought 136 00:11:14,521 --> 00:11:19,989 for Italy during the First World War. At the point, everyone was inclined 137 00:11:20,189 --> 00:11:24,594 to accept Fascist rule. 138 00:11:25,180 --> 00:11:30,380 We return to Ettore and Adelina, who, because of their decisions, 139 00:11:30,548 --> 00:11:39,333 leave the Second World War behind, in which the persecution of Jews 140 00:11:39,578 --> 00:11:43,816 and the holocaust is about to start. They leave behind the errors of the war, 141 00:11:44,064 --> 00:11:50,315 however, like I said, they face a life that is not easy. 142 00:11:50,574 --> 00:11:55,545 Like we said, Adelina was a lawyer with a great career. 143 00:11:55,696 --> 00:12:00,141 She finds herself having to start her work up again. 144 00:12:00,291 --> 00:12:05,642 Yes, because the main difficulty was a work shortage. 145 00:12:06,475 --> 00:12:10,575 There was an excess of workers (Laughter) 146 00:12:11,301 --> 00:12:14,541 from Tel Aviv. And then, there were few jobs 147 00:12:15,009 --> 00:12:18,965 or they were completely insecure. Another big problem was 148 00:12:19,260 --> 00:12:21,126 a housing shortage. 149 00:12:21,609 --> 00:12:26,866 So much so that my parents were forced to live with a Polish family 150 00:12:27,211 --> 00:12:29,419 in an apartment. Above all, 151 00:12:30,180 --> 00:12:38,228 the main difficulty was the work shortage. Also because the two bags 152 00:12:38,428 --> 00:12:43,221 of the two thousand stars were not to be touched at all. 153 00:12:43,389 --> 00:12:44,971 My father was not flexible. 154 00:12:45,168 --> 00:12:54,038 My mom then, as long as my father remained in Tel Aviv until August 23, 1944, 155 00:12:54,416 --> 00:12:58,190 when he went to work at the British oil refinery... 156 00:12:58,527 --> 00:13:00,663 (Interviewer Talking) 157 00:13:02,584 --> 00:13:03,995 No, he was also with my mom because they then had my sister first, 158 00:13:05,484 --> 00:13:09,821 and then I was born in 1942. So when my father left, 159 00:13:10,096 --> 00:13:18,196 he felt the obligation to work to support the family. 160 00:13:18,380 --> 00:13:25,139 He also liked the idea of having money to freely spend. 161 00:13:25,670 --> 00:13:30,672 As mentioned, your mother was free... - Yes, free. 162 00:13:31,130 --> 00:13:32,106 in Palestine. - Yes. 163 00:13:32,307 --> 00:13:36,364 Your father, on the other hand, had to move abroad to Persia 164 00:13:36,564 --> 00:13:41,699 because, meanwhile, he found work with an oil company. 165 00:13:41,966 --> 00:13:48,182 So two lovers who find themselves far apart in a foreign land, 166 00:13:48,348 --> 00:13:53,850 and the only point of contact between these two people becomes 167 00:13:54,083 --> 00:13:56,505 the writing, the letters that will then become so important 168 00:13:56,849 --> 00:14:00,166 for documentation, for their memories. - Yes. 169 00:14:00,374 --> 00:14:05,792 In fact, if my father accepts this two year contract 170 00:14:06,042 --> 00:14:13,184 with this Iranian company, from Abadan in Persia, 171 00:14:13,434 --> 00:14:17,372 he would do his work as an industrial chemist 172 00:14:17,540 --> 00:14:24,617 in this precise military zone. Of course, he had to detach, 173 00:14:24,959 --> 00:14:28,485 he had to leave his wife, his children in Tel Aviv. 174 00:14:28,767 --> 00:14:36,060 Then, although very tired, every evening my mom wrote 175 00:14:36,252 --> 00:14:42,569 and reported what had happened during her workday, 176 00:14:42,835 --> 00:14:47,302 because she had found work with a company that was part 177 00:14:47,485 --> 00:14:50,741 of the Tel Aviv pharmaceutical industry. After then being fired, 178 00:14:50,995 --> 00:14:59,276 she went to work at a house to iron. So, she could do anything. 179 00:14:59,471 --> 00:15:08,238 She reported with great ability, descriptive, careful about everything 180 00:15:08,444 --> 00:15:13,072 that went on during the day. Rather, my father sometimes wrote letters 181 00:15:13,204 --> 00:15:18,570 with extensive description. He explained to her a bit about his duty, 182 00:15:18,738 --> 00:15:22,722 weather problems because it was very hot, relationships with the British, 183 00:15:22,905 --> 00:15:27,964 and with the local population that was in truly devastating conditions. 184 00:15:28,125 --> 00:15:31,806 They were letters that, among other things... 185 00:15:31,956 --> 00:15:37,607 If you permit me a tangent. They were things one absolutely knew 186 00:15:37,773 --> 00:15:41,460 but I didn't even know the letters existed. 187 00:15:41,713 --> 00:15:46,556 Then perhaps we can also elaborate on how they were found. 188 00:15:46,707 --> 00:15:50,774 Then also about how the decision to publish them came about. 189 00:15:50,940 --> 00:15:54,618 Let's go back. We had said that while Ettore 190 00:15:54,784 --> 00:15:58,613 and Adelina were in Palestine, their children were born. 191 00:15:58,747 --> 00:16:01,233 Yes, my sister... - You were born 192 00:16:01,816 --> 00:16:02,750 and your sister Ana was born. 193 00:16:03,016 --> 00:16:06,775 It is fitting that the future of these two children was often focused 194 00:16:06,992 --> 00:16:10,717 on in these letters that Ettore and Adelina exchange. 195 00:16:10,946 --> 00:16:14,129 I would like to read another particularly significant passage 196 00:16:14,342 --> 00:16:22,709 that is again written by Ettore in Abadan in February 23, 1945: 197 00:16:23,141 --> 00:16:26,575 "If on one hand, the war tends to be nearing its end, on the other, 198 00:16:26,775 --> 00:16:30,035 "for us, the situation in Palestine is taking a favorable turn. 199 00:16:30,191 --> 00:16:34,102 "These days, I am overthinking and continuously thinking 200 00:16:34,286 --> 00:16:38,454 "about the problem and worried, not so much about our personal future, 201 00:16:38,587 --> 00:16:42,110 "but the future of our children. I feel irresistibly taken towards 202 00:16:42,352 --> 00:16:45,594 "a solution that, although never once explored, 203 00:16:46,065 --> 00:16:49,284 "today seems inevitable to me. Perhaps in a year's time we will find 204 00:16:49,787 --> 00:16:55,046 "the need to have to return to Italy. Then they will become 205 00:16:55,195 --> 00:16:56,788 "one hundred percent Italians." 206 00:16:56,970 --> 00:17:04,422 Probably if your father could have chosen, he would have never wanted 207 00:17:04,573 --> 00:17:05,595 to return to Italy. 208 00:17:05,749 --> 00:17:08,497 Yes, I would not have wanted to also. Quite the opposite, 209 00:17:09,595 --> 00:17:17,470 because of having been betrayed by Italy, my father deeply desired to return to Italy. 210 00:17:18,020 --> 00:17:21,135 Apart from the experience in Abadan, also because life 211 00:17:21,570 --> 00:17:27,604 in Palestine was truly very hard, very difficult because of the work problem, 212 00:17:28,458 --> 00:17:37,568 and the problem of the lack of apartments. However, we can't forget 213 00:17:37,888 --> 00:17:43,158 that the attention from the Palestinian Arabs 214 00:17:43,209 --> 00:17:47,410 and the British made life difficult. 215 00:17:48,237 --> 00:17:52,466 If we could return back in time... - Yes. 216 00:17:53,210 --> 00:18:02,553 In September 1940, Tel Aviv was bombed by Italian planes, right? 217 00:18:02,868 --> 00:18:06,833 Yes. - They bombed Tel Aviv and it seems 218 00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:10,727 like there were one hundred and fifty two deaths. 219 00:18:10,928 --> 00:18:14,967 So life was very hard. Another tangent. 220 00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:21,822 I mean, one of the big problems was also food. 221 00:18:22,113 --> 00:18:26,804 For example, my sister and I went to the gan, which was like kindergarten. 222 00:18:27,163 --> 00:18:33,481 To help you understand, at lunch they used to give us half an egg to eat. 223 00:18:33,781 --> 00:18:37,936 On the other hand, while facing this situation, 224 00:18:38,279 --> 00:18:45,753 the hope of returning to Italy continuously remained. 225 00:18:46,089 --> 00:18:49,813 And how did Adelina live with the hope of returning? 226 00:18:49,948 --> 00:18:55,348 I will read another significant passage: "I will never ask those taking that step. 227 00:18:55,550 --> 00:18:59,731 "Here I feel undoubtedly hesitant by instinct and by force of tradition. 228 00:18:59,882 --> 00:19:03,971 "And I won't ever ask myself, not only out of obedience, 229 00:19:04,123 --> 00:19:06,591 "but because more than anything else, I am concerned 230 00:19:06,833 --> 00:19:10,667 "about doing everything possible for the future of our children." 231 00:19:10,867 --> 00:19:14,634 It's like saying, she was also willing to do her part. 232 00:19:14,891 --> 00:19:18,484 There was a sense of pride to return to Italy, 233 00:19:18,798 --> 00:19:22,226 that country that had dismissed them, in order to guarantee 234 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,210 a future for you children. 235 00:19:24,375 --> 00:19:28,434 Then here there is a... (Laughter) 236 00:19:28,583 --> 00:19:31,676 There are many letters. In any case, when my father says 237 00:19:31,843 --> 00:19:34,135 that they will become one hundred percent Italians, 238 00:19:34,639 --> 00:19:43,868 he also proposes to my mom the idea of converting to Catholicism, 239 00:19:44,084 --> 00:19:46,477 because we were Jews. - (Interviewer) Of course. 240 00:19:46,627 --> 00:19:55,228 Meanwhile, the Finzi from Trieste were almost completely assimilated. 241 00:19:55,477 --> 00:19:58,485 That is to say, they went to the temple twice a year. 242 00:19:59,018 --> 00:20:04,180 Instead, my mom was from a much more orthodox family, 243 00:20:04,394 --> 00:20:10,462 They came from the Parrdo, a very important Iberian family. 244 00:20:10,823 --> 00:20:18,914 Parrdo which used to be Prado. They came from Spain after the expulsion. 245 00:20:19,052 --> 00:20:25,372 So my father proposes this idea of converting to Catholicism 246 00:20:25,539 --> 00:20:30,822 in order for his children... - To become... 247 00:20:31,205 --> 00:20:34,826 Yes, to become entirely Italian, even as a religion. 248 00:20:34,994 --> 00:20:39,432 However my mom... Here it says that she was reluctant. 249 00:20:39,566 --> 00:20:46,739 Not because she was personally orthodox, but because, in that moment when 250 00:20:46,955 --> 00:20:51,549 it was known what was happening in Europe, the extermination camps 251 00:20:51,683 --> 00:20:55,957 or another difficult situation, they absolutely didn't know 252 00:20:56,124 --> 00:21:00,757 where my paternal and maternal grandparents were. 253 00:21:00,906 --> 00:21:08,867 Then, however, the news arrived even betraying the origin and... 254 00:21:09,001 --> 00:21:12,440 It was quite heavy. - Yes, very heavy. 255 00:21:12,846 --> 00:21:17,107 By the way, how did the news about the war arrive meanwhile 256 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:22,298 it continued in Europe? Was there just an awareness 257 00:21:22,601 --> 00:21:25,558 of what was happening? Was there an awareness 258 00:21:25,742 --> 00:21:29,993 of the existence of the extermination camps? 259 00:21:30,126 --> 00:21:32,265 Yes. - Above all, how did they live 260 00:21:32,432 --> 00:21:33,910 with these dual feelings? Because, on the one hand, 261 00:21:34,126 --> 00:21:37,359 there was this hope of being able to return one day 262 00:21:37,509 --> 00:21:40,210 to a normal life in Italy. On the other hand, however, 263 00:21:40,393 --> 00:21:44,018 there was a lot of fear also for the fate of loved ones. 264 00:21:44,364 --> 00:21:46,517 They knew everything. 265 00:21:47,017 --> 00:21:52,128 Both about the Jewish agency and the British. 266 00:21:52,461 --> 00:22:02,960 The news arrived quite detailed. I don't want to forget a noteworthy group 267 00:22:03,093 --> 00:22:09,149 of young Jews that were part of the Jewish brigade. 268 00:22:09,777 --> 00:22:15,330 They fought alongside the British and they also fought in Italy, 269 00:22:15,722 --> 00:22:22,200 then in all of Europe. They were the ones who said 270 00:22:22,351 --> 00:22:27,914 that they gave very detailed news of what was happening. 271 00:22:28,047 --> 00:22:34,055 So, they knew about everything that was coming to Italy and Europe. 272 00:22:34,373 --> 00:22:43,872 The concerns were about my paternal grandparents, 273 00:22:44,020 --> 00:22:48,014 those who later died in Auschwitz, that they didn't... 274 00:22:48,181 --> 00:22:55,615 The last official news was transmitted by a type of telegram of the Red Cross 275 00:22:55,939 --> 00:23:01,873 in July of 1943. My father knew absolutely nothing. 276 00:23:02,141 --> 00:23:09,132 My mom didn't know. She knew that her parents were hidden. 277 00:23:09,272 --> 00:23:14,434 Her brother was in Switzerland. But they had absolutely no news. 278 00:23:14,617 --> 00:23:21,984 They couldn't say or write anything because the mail was altered. 279 00:23:22,605 --> 00:23:30,955 Outgoing and incoming mail was altered. I found that at least some details 280 00:23:31,134 --> 00:23:37,204 in the letters had been deleted precisely by the person that did the alterations. 281 00:23:37,367 --> 00:23:40,973 So, my father needed to be careful because they were altered by the British. 282 00:23:41,194 --> 00:23:45,502 They were altered by the Persians. Then they were altered on arrival 283 00:23:45,719 --> 00:23:47,244 in Palestine. So, they were... 284 00:23:47,469 --> 00:23:50,585 In this situation, they also found themselves in a state 285 00:23:50,953 --> 00:23:56,175 of uncertainty being far from Europe, far from what was happening in Europe, 286 00:23:56,316 --> 00:23:58,752 far from the war. 287 00:23:58,919 --> 00:24:13,446 For a moment, Adelina perhaps had hoped that her family would have an advantage 288 00:24:13,613 --> 00:24:17,880 over the immense tragedy that afflicted the Jews of Europe, 289 00:24:18,035 --> 00:24:21,555 that they would all find themselves reunited upon their return. 290 00:24:21,737 --> 00:24:23,905 There was almost this illusion, this hope. 291 00:24:24,070 --> 00:24:28,838 Hope is often the last idea. There was hope. 292 00:24:29,005 --> 00:24:38,306 They didn't have detailed news. My father's brother was a doctor 293 00:24:38,471 --> 00:24:48,990 who lived in Bologna in the mountains of Monghidoro. 294 00:24:49,147 --> 00:24:55,290 He knew that his parents had been arrested, 295 00:24:55,473 --> 00:24:59,223 that they had been deported. However, he had not communicated anything. 296 00:24:59,390 --> 00:25:05,907 Even though, hypothetically they went to Auschwitz, there could have always been 297 00:25:06,041 --> 00:25:11,741 the hope of returning. Therefore, they hoped. 298 00:25:11,891 --> 00:25:15,775 Unfortunately, however, the terrible news was that they arrived. 299 00:25:15,925 --> 00:25:19,859 They arrived in Palestine while the war by now... 300 00:25:20,175 --> 00:25:22,092 It was over. - By now it was over. 301 00:25:22,276 --> 00:25:26,075 And like you said, the terrible news arrived by mail. 302 00:25:26,425 --> 00:25:31,160 News so terrible that Adelina cannot even transcribe them 303 00:25:31,532 --> 00:25:34,243 in a letter to Ettore. She writes: 304 00:25:34,443 --> 00:25:38,235 "My dear, unfortunately, the dreary news has arrived. 305 00:25:38,408 --> 00:25:40,450 "I am sending you the letter because I don't have the courage 306 00:25:40,711 --> 00:25:42,327 "to write to you about it with my own pen." 307 00:25:42,659 --> 00:25:46,786 It's terrible. Unfortunately, they were reactions 308 00:25:46,944 --> 00:25:51,568 to what had just happened in the war in Europe. 309 00:25:51,726 --> 00:25:55,814 In a communication letter separate from the international cross. 310 00:25:55,977 --> 00:25:59,343 Maybe in that exact moment Ettore and Adelina understood 311 00:25:59,503 --> 00:26:03,378 what they had escaped from? 312 00:26:03,552 --> 00:26:08,954 Yes without a doubt. I will also tell you 313 00:26:09,097 --> 00:26:14,162 that when my father had the idea of going to Palestine, 314 00:26:14,365 --> 00:26:19,670 everyone criticized him; friends, parents, brothers, the sister, 315 00:26:19,916 --> 00:26:24,963 because they said that he was always pessimistic. 316 00:26:25,245 --> 00:26:31,417 He would rather have wanted them all to also come with him. 317 00:26:31,578 --> 00:26:43,906 However, he expected it, also because the war in Europe ended on May 8, 1945. 318 00:26:44,223 --> 00:26:50,847 The news gets to him in August. Given that months go by 319 00:26:51,097 --> 00:26:57,364 where he doesn't receive positive news, he feared for the lives of his parents. 320 00:26:57,674 --> 00:27:00,564 Excuse me but if you permit me. - (Interviewer) Of course. 321 00:27:00,731 --> 00:27:07,650 But before the communication about the deaths of his parents, 322 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:15,083 he received communication from Sweden that said his sister was saved. 323 00:27:15,416 --> 00:27:23,270 Then my aunt Yolanda Clara was part of that group of prisoners 324 00:27:23,433 --> 00:27:28,159 that were moved from Auschwitz in December 1944. 325 00:27:28,309 --> 00:27:32,160 They were moved west so as not to leave a mass 326 00:27:32,325 --> 00:27:38,943 of prisoners in Auschwitz, because the Red Army was coming. 327 00:27:39,094 --> 00:27:49,228 She was then liberated in the north of Ravensbrück in April 1945. 328 00:27:49,401 --> 00:27:53,152 She was then transferred to Sweden to recover. 329 00:27:53,435 --> 00:27:59,169 We have said that at this point, the war had ended and Ettore and Adelina 330 00:27:59,403 --> 00:28:04,586 along with their children decide to return to Italy. 331 00:28:04,874 --> 00:28:08,854 How difficult was it once again to start from scratch because they actually had 332 00:28:09,187 --> 00:28:10,504 to start from scratch. 333 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,419 Ah yes. It was difficult. 334 00:28:12,579 --> 00:28:17,171 My father's brother, who had worked in Sansepolcro, 335 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,813 helped him get a job at his work. He spoke with Mr. Marco Vittoni 336 00:28:21,104 --> 00:28:25,154 and he said he was quite willing to hire his brother 337 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:30,489 because he was a chemist. Mr. Vittoni wanted a change of pace 338 00:28:30,622 --> 00:28:38,070 for his company. But when we arrived in Italy in May 1946, 339 00:28:38,272 --> 00:28:41,614 with a short stop in Bologna and then to Parma at the home 340 00:28:41,761 --> 00:28:45,331 of my maternal grandparents, and then to Sansepolcro precisely 341 00:28:45,496 --> 00:28:51,122 in November of 1946, we had absolutely nothing. 342 00:28:51,898 --> 00:28:54,472 And there was nothing... (Laughter) 343 00:28:54,715 --> 00:28:58,672 Without a doubt, a country in devastation. - Yes, a country in devastation. 344 00:28:58,806 --> 00:29:03,830 I remember the path with holes. I remember the Tower of Berta Square 345 00:29:03,995 --> 00:29:06,683 in a pile of ruins. - The Tower of Berta Square was destroyed. 346 00:29:06,871 --> 00:29:16,690 I repeat, it was also a problem to eat. I remember my father rented 347 00:29:17,267 --> 00:29:19,492 a furnished apartment in Saint Claire Square 348 00:29:19,801 --> 00:29:22,829 in which the conditions were... - Insecure. 349 00:29:23,067 --> 00:29:26,059 Very, very insecure. However, they were young 350 00:29:26,217 --> 00:29:31,342 and they wanted to start over. There was my sister and myself. 351 00:29:31,492 --> 00:29:39,382 So, they wanted to put a painful time of their lives behind them and start over. 352 00:29:39,646 --> 00:29:44,242 You have previously already answered that there was resentment towards 353 00:29:44,409 --> 00:29:49,694 that country that made them escape and also towards those friends 354 00:29:49,861 --> 00:29:52,450 that... - No. 355 00:29:52,636 --> 00:29:58,228 had put down the idea of the... - No, absolutely not. 356 00:29:58,566 --> 00:30:02,660 Other than it being something that is part of our DNA, 357 00:30:02,947 --> 00:30:10,765 resentment is useless. It's best to move forward, 358 00:30:10,949 --> 00:30:17,245 to have the will to start again and to overcome difficulties. 359 00:30:17,420 --> 00:30:21,438 Not resentment. I never heard my father 360 00:30:21,604 --> 00:30:29,395 nor my mother speak ill of Italians. Yes, it was upsetting to have lost. 361 00:30:29,521 --> 00:30:36,502 To having lost parents. To having lost years of work. 362 00:30:36,652 --> 00:30:40,513 My mom could not return to work in Milan because there was no way 363 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,906 to find a home. 364 00:30:43,208 --> 00:30:52,924 In 2011, Ettore Finzi's and Adelina's epistolary was donated 365 00:30:53,135 --> 00:30:57,000 to the Pieve diary archives. It's awarded the Premio Pieve. 366 00:30:57,148 --> 00:31:02,848 First and foremost, how were you able to find these letters again, 367 00:31:03,048 --> 00:31:06,449 because they were made public by the decision of donating them. 368 00:31:06,587 --> 00:31:11,526 My father died on June 18, 2002. 369 00:31:11,874 --> 00:31:20,992 He lived in an apartment in Parma. In August I was ready to let go of it. 370 00:31:21,572 --> 00:31:31,633 By chance, I found a bag in his office, a leather one that held documents. 371 00:31:32,101 --> 00:31:37,794 There were letters inside this document holder. 372 00:31:38,901 --> 00:31:43,298 And there were two notebooks, black ones with a red border 373 00:31:43,298 --> 00:31:46,604 that were used in the past, and inside were his diaries. 374 00:31:47,097 --> 00:31:52,133 I understood right away because I have done historical research 375 00:31:52,550 --> 00:31:55,916 for many years, so I understood it was something interesting. 376 00:31:56,322 --> 00:31:59,600 I found it strange that my father never told me anything, 377 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:05,991 because he didn't say to me that there were letters and diaries. 378 00:32:06,401 --> 00:32:10,001 And so I took them all to my house, to my office and I left them there 379 00:32:10,959 --> 00:32:15,650 for a year, a year and a half. Then I slowly began to read them 380 00:32:16,010 --> 00:32:17,134 with a bit of fear. 381 00:32:17,768 --> 00:32:22,178 Because with diaries and letters... - One will find... 382 00:32:22,424 --> 00:32:25,719 always find something intimate. Then I think in my family, 383 00:32:25,969 --> 00:32:31,644 nothing would ever be talked about. No one had ever commented, 384 00:32:31,844 --> 00:32:37,909 or made references. Then I gradually began 385 00:32:38,086 --> 00:32:42,287 to transcribe these letters. I can't tell you how I did so, 386 00:32:42,574 --> 00:32:45,403 because they were truly written... - Strictly handwritten. 387 00:32:45,603 --> 00:32:50,720 Yes, handwritten with a fountain pen, on tissue paper, because back then 388 00:32:50,913 --> 00:32:56,686 it was airmail paper. It was a type of job 389 00:32:56,837 --> 00:33:02,280 that strained the eyes. In any case, I did this transcription job 390 00:33:02,959 --> 00:33:08,326 of the diary, of the letters, etc. I had the idea of publishing it. 391 00:33:08,864 --> 00:33:16,182 The full version of this diary, of these letters... 392 00:33:16,645 --> 00:33:24,709 I had already collaborated with the diary archives 393 00:33:24,990 --> 00:33:35,338 for some time for my research. In any case, just to be certain, 394 00:33:35,489 --> 00:33:39,808 I went to Pieve Santo Stefano and I had this volume in hand. 395 00:33:39,990 --> 00:33:46,433 It was Cristina Cangi, who you will meet. She asked me: 396 00:33:46,776 --> 00:33:49,391 "What is it professor?" - "It's this work that I did." 397 00:33:49,574 --> 00:33:52,767 "Why don't you submit if for the award." 398 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,367 I say I really had not thought about wanting to publish it. 399 00:33:57,545 --> 00:34:05,186 I start reading some interesting things and then I submit it. 400 00:34:05,545 --> 00:34:10,042 They asked me for the archive and also for the letters, 401 00:34:10,226 --> 00:34:11,925 but I wasn't going to do that. 402 00:34:12,091 --> 00:34:17,047 I remember that it's possible to read this publication 403 00:34:17,197 --> 00:34:21,411 that is titled "Transparent", in which the documentation 404 00:34:21,551 --> 00:34:24,031 is presented and published by Il Mulino. 405 00:34:24,226 --> 00:34:29,046 Our arrangement time has ended, although we would like to talk for hours 406 00:34:29,186 --> 00:34:34,135 about this story that is a bit, by certain passages and elements, 407 00:34:34,302 --> 00:34:36,610 similar to the story of many other families, 408 00:34:36,845 --> 00:34:41,818 also of the province of Arezzo. Perhaps there will be a way 409 00:34:41,954 --> 00:34:46,937 to talk more about it in the future. Thank you Daniele Finzi. 410 00:34:47,111 --> 00:34:52,872 Thanks to all of you who have followed our episode, 411 00:34:53,021 --> 00:34:55,396 a special episode that has been made possible 412 00:34:55,562 --> 00:35:00,545 in collaboration with The Archives of Pieve Santo Stefano. 413 00:35:00,730 --> 00:35:04,263 I naturally thank you as well. In particular, 414 00:35:04,463 --> 00:35:09,735 the archives for this episode were made available 415 00:35:09,885 --> 00:35:12,535 by Nadia Frulli. Thank you to all of you 416 00:35:12,747 --> 00:35:15,413 for watching the program.