WEBVTT
00:00:06.265 --> 00:00:10.250
People from Here
00:00:12.299 --> 00:00:17.240
Welcome back to People from Here.
What we want to tell you today
00:00:17.240 --> 00:00:22.803
is the story of two young people,
of two young people with high hopes.
00:00:22.803 --> 00:00:27.037
There is Adelina,
a brilliant lawyer who works
00:00:27.039 --> 00:00:32.258
at a prestigious legal firm in Milan.
Then there is Ettore,
00:00:32.261 --> 00:00:36.608
an industrial chemist.
The future can only smile
00:00:36.608 --> 00:00:40.100
upon Adelina and Ettore.
Actually,
00:00:40.166 --> 00:00:46.318
their future will be more turbulent
thank they could have ever imagined.
00:00:46.645 --> 00:00:53.576
In fact,
in 1938 Ettore and Adelina are Jewish.
00:00:53.703 --> 00:01:00.917
On September 18th,
from the balcony of Trieste's town hall,
00:01:01.242 --> 00:01:06.207
Benito Mussolini announced
for the first time the Racial Laws
00:01:06.322 --> 00:01:08.160
for the defense of the race.
00:01:08.526 --> 00:01:16.728
The world of those two young people
suddenly collapses under their feet.
00:01:17.146 --> 00:01:22.487
We will tell this story
about Ettore and Adelina
00:01:22.719 --> 00:01:27.145
on the eve of the day.
We will tell it with the son
00:01:27.188 --> 00:01:31.820
of Ettore and Adelina,
Daniele Finzi, who in 2011,
00:01:32.131 --> 00:01:38.099
decided to donate
his parents letters and documents
00:01:38.099 --> 00:01:42.254
to The Archives of Pieve Santo Stefano.
00:01:42.254 --> 00:01:46.544
Shortly we will also discuss why
this choice was made.
00:01:46.544 --> 00:01:50.991
Now I would like to start
with September 1938.
00:01:50.991 --> 00:01:58.047
with Mussolini's announcement
of the laws for the defense of the race.
00:01:58.200 --> 00:02:02.623
Ettore and Adelina immediately started
to understand that there wasn't
00:02:02.623 --> 00:02:05.614
a future for them in that country.
00:02:05.614 --> 00:02:10.221
Deciding to leave their country was
a difficult decision,
00:02:10.221 --> 00:02:14.801
a difficult decision,
but one that will save their lives.
00:02:15.174 --> 00:02:25.792
Yes, my father Ettore Finzi was
very knowledgable about history.
00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:29.599
Also because he knew German very well.
00:02:29.849 --> 00:02:34.349
He had two aunts, aunt Genie
and aunt Lazigudita Gentiluomo,
00:02:34.349 --> 00:02:36.430
who both lived in Vienna.
00:02:36.583 --> 00:02:45.924
He had followed all
the Nazi antisemitism up to March 1938.
00:02:45.924 --> 00:02:56.795
So when the Race Manifesto was published
in July 1938, he didn't expect it.
00:02:57.048 --> 00:03:02.767
He knew what the contents were about
and he also hoped that Italy would be
00:03:02.782 --> 00:03:06.960
a little different from Germany.
00:03:07.423 --> 00:03:17.220
And my father, more than my mother,
made quick and immediate decisions.
00:03:17.220 --> 00:03:21.670
He was also very intuitive.
He had known my mom only a few months,
00:03:21.679 --> 00:03:25.258
and he returns
to these months in April 1938.
00:03:25.936 --> 00:03:32.775
It was love at first sight
and because of the Race Manifesto
00:03:32.775 --> 00:03:35.583
and the Racial Laws,
they decided to get married.
00:03:35.613 --> 00:03:39.811
They were married in Milan
on December 1, 1938.
00:03:40.027 --> 00:03:43.868
In 1938. We arrive in 1939.
- Yes.
00:03:43.868 --> 00:03:46.459
An ominous date for many.
- Yes.
00:03:46.459 --> 00:03:49.173
Very unjust, but there is a turning point.
- There is a...
00:03:49.173 --> 00:03:55.598
Ettore and Adelina decide to leave.
Or rather, how do they depart?
00:03:55.598 --> 00:03:58.246
Because, in a sense,
they leave informed.
00:03:58.246 --> 00:04:03.779
Yes and no.
The problem is immediate
00:04:03.786 --> 00:04:05.919
and that of money.
00:04:06.204 --> 00:04:13.857
Because the White Paper of the British,
a policy from maybe February
00:04:13.890 --> 00:04:22.536
or March of 1939,
allowed a total of 75,000 Jews
00:04:22.617 --> 00:04:27.156
to enter Palestine for five years.
00:04:27.553 --> 00:04:33.039
However, to qualify to enter,
every person needed to have 1,000 stars.
00:04:33.039 --> 00:04:36.757
Because, like we said, they had chosen.
- To go to...
00:04:36.757 --> 00:04:38.626
The goal was Palestine.
- Yes.
00:04:38.626 --> 00:04:43.533
The choice was not a coincidence,
because my father had also thought
00:04:43.546 --> 00:04:44.950
about Latin America.
00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:50.948
But the idea of going
to Palestine was because it was nearby.
00:04:50.948 --> 00:04:53.981
He was from Trieste so it was close.
00:04:53.981 --> 00:04:58.002
He also hoped his parents could join him.
00:04:58.002 --> 00:05:00.850
In any case,
the issue of money was really
00:05:00.850 --> 00:05:04.243
a huge problem
because they didn't have any.
00:05:04.571 --> 00:05:09.219
So, thanks to the lawyer Gianni Morandi,
who was the owner of the firm
00:05:09.374 --> 00:05:16.177
where my mom worked,
they went to Zurich for their honeymoon.
00:05:16.485 --> 00:05:21.335
Then they went to Lugano
to gather clients for the lawyer.
00:05:21.652 --> 00:05:26.441
It was to put towards this large sum.
And I still remember two leather bags
00:05:26.624 --> 00:05:32.586
with thousands of little stars inside.
They were gold little stars.
00:05:32.992 --> 00:05:38.496
At this point, they reach Palestine.
A tangent here about Palestine.
00:05:38.496 --> 00:05:42.260
The State of Israel still didn't exist.
00:05:42.260 --> 00:05:47.213
There wasn't any money to protect them.
Therefore, they had to start from scratch.
00:05:47.213 --> 00:05:52.988
Yes, and so, they started all over again
from January to April 1, 1939.
00:05:52.988 --> 00:05:57.214
They arrived in Haifa on April 6th.
00:05:57.461 --> 00:06:05.748
Yes, because as of 1922,
the British controlled Palestine.
00:06:06.155 --> 00:06:12.740
There were Palestinian Arabs.
The Jewish Palestinians were organized
00:06:12.740 --> 00:06:20.844
by the Yishuv, who were more concerned
with the kibbutz and wanted
00:06:20.844 --> 00:06:24.006
to dedicate themselves
to agriculture, etc.
00:06:24.006 --> 00:06:31.323
But the foundation, the political one,
was led by the Arab agency.
00:06:31.323 --> 00:06:35.799
The Arab agency was, well,
I'll give you an example.
00:06:35.799 --> 00:06:44.702
They arrived in Tel Aviv on April 7th
and twenty days after,
00:06:44.702 --> 00:06:49.628
they were in school learning modern Hebrew
because there were various Jews
00:06:49.628 --> 00:06:57.524
in Tel Aviv from every part of Europe.
It was necessary
00:06:57.524 --> 00:07:02.929
to learn this common language.
So, there was some organization,
00:07:02.929 --> 00:07:04.674
but there were a lot of problems.
00:07:04.674 --> 00:07:07.289
In any case, where I mentally find...
- Ah yes.
00:07:07.289 --> 00:07:10.595
this small amount of protection.
However, they had to start...
00:07:10.595 --> 00:07:12.525
Yes, they had to restart.
- from scratch.
00:07:12.525 --> 00:07:17.057
On the other hand, however,
there was a lot of bitterness
00:07:17.642 --> 00:07:20.991
that was left behind by the fact
of having to abandon...
00:07:21.700 --> 00:07:22.836
Yes.
- Italy.
00:07:23.630 --> 00:07:26.548
Having to leave Italy was stressful.
- Yes.
00:07:27.209 --> 00:07:30.306
In regard to this,
I will also read an excerpt
00:07:30.649 --> 00:07:34.963
from the letters
that have been donated to the archive,
00:07:35.365 --> 00:07:43.841
diaries in which Ettore specifically tells
about what he was feeling shortly after
00:07:44.339 --> 00:07:48.057
the time at which he abandoned Italy.
00:07:48.516 --> 00:07:52.974
We will read this excerpt:
"When I left Italy four months ago,
00:07:53.391 --> 00:07:57.650
"feeling more disgusted by the burden
of having to leave the country
00:07:57.964 --> 00:07:59.459
"than for the imminent danger,
many of my colleagues
00:07:59.750 --> 00:08:02.608
"and friends were quick
to express to me their discontent
00:08:02.841 --> 00:08:05.235
"about what was happening.
Through their conversations,
00:08:05.483 --> 00:08:08.958
"I felt they knew what sympathy meant,
and they only ended up making me withdraw.
00:08:09.226 --> 00:08:14.584
"They were whispered conversations solely
because they knew me
00:08:14.842 --> 00:08:17.731
"and thought highly of me.
For many, being an example against
00:08:17.985 --> 00:08:24.193
"the persecution of Jews not being born
in Italy, could also be considered fair,
00:08:24.409 --> 00:08:26.469
"because it is understood that they came
to the country to make a fortune
00:08:26.732 --> 00:08:28.968
"by going behind other's backs.
They had some expert political views.
00:08:29.176 --> 00:08:35.300
"The Fascist government's right
to persecute people that it had let into
00:08:35.467 --> 00:08:36.661
"the country was generally recognized."
00:08:36.911 --> 00:08:40.151
Okay, so Ettore felt betrayed by Italy?
00:08:40.349 --> 00:08:45.278
Without a doubt.
As I was saying prior,
00:08:45.428 --> 00:08:50.445
also because my father was from Trieste.
From his father, my grandfather,
00:08:50.917 --> 00:08:55.412
he had also received an irredentist
and nationalist upbringing.
00:08:55.978 --> 00:09:00.278
Trieste has always been divided
between people from Trieste
00:09:00.462 --> 00:09:11.230
and irredentists,
those who love Italy, Italian culture,
00:09:11.380 --> 00:09:14.880
Italian language,
like my grandfather and the Slovenians.
00:09:15.080 --> 00:09:23.013
He had received this upbringing,
and so he was an irredentist nationalist.
00:09:23.214 --> 00:09:29.035
Additionally, he was a genius official,
and he felt like an Italian.
00:09:29.368 --> 00:09:35.080
He loved Italy
and he felt betrayed by this terrible law.
00:09:35.264 --> 00:09:42.381
In addition, in Ettore's letters,
in this text, it also highlights
00:09:42.549 --> 00:09:47.715
a responsibility
by the Italian people themselves
00:09:48.270 --> 00:09:49.292
for what was happening.
00:09:49.639 --> 00:09:51.292
He writes:
"The political maturity
00:09:51.508 --> 00:09:54.488
"of the Italian people
is apparently that of government rule
00:09:54.716 --> 00:09:56.365
"that it has and that it deserves."
00:09:56.567 --> 00:09:59.855
There is a precise responsibility
by the people.
00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:05.017
Well, the Italian people's problem...
(Laughter)
00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:09.701
is like saying living today like yesterday.
00:10:09.999 --> 00:10:13.734
In other words,
the lack of personal responsibility
00:10:13.967 --> 00:10:24.835
and accepting anything,
like a leader or a guide,
00:10:24.967 --> 00:10:30.443
that which has
an uglier appearance, if you will.
00:10:30.775 --> 00:10:34.994
And that Trieste...
Not coincidentally Mussolini
00:10:35.327 --> 00:10:39.152
and September 18, 1938,
where they were
00:10:39.323 --> 00:10:42.678
at the Unity of Italy Square
to present the Racial Laws.
00:10:42.860 --> 00:10:45.795
Not only because of
the nationalism that was there,
00:10:46.144 --> 00:10:53.087
but because Trieste was
a very multiethnic, multicultural city.
00:10:53.251 --> 00:10:58.520
There were more than two centuries
in which ethnic groups were diverse.
00:10:58.669 --> 00:11:02.447
They coexisted.
But at that very moment
00:11:02.598 --> 00:11:08.654
in which Mussolini showed his cruelty
towards Jews, who, I repeat,
00:11:08.788 --> 00:11:14.354
were real Italians, and felt as such,
and had also fought
00:11:14.521 --> 00:11:19.989
for Italy during the First World War.
At the point, everyone was inclined
00:11:20.189 --> 00:11:24.594
to accept Fascist rule.
00:11:25.180 --> 00:11:30.380
We return to Ettore and Adelina,
who, because of their decisions,
00:11:30.548 --> 00:11:39.333
leave the Second World War behind,
in which the persecution of Jews
00:11:39.578 --> 00:11:43.816
and the holocaust is about to start.
They leave behind the errors of the war,
00:11:44.064 --> 00:11:50.315
however, like I said, they face a life
that is not easy.
00:11:50.574 --> 00:11:55.545
Like we said,
Adelina was a lawyer with a great career.
00:11:55.696 --> 00:12:00.141
She finds herself having
to start her work up again.
00:12:00.291 --> 00:12:05.642
Yes, because the main difficulty was
a work shortage.
00:12:06.475 --> 00:12:10.575
There was an excess of workers
(Laughter)
00:12:11.301 --> 00:12:14.541
from Tel Aviv.
And then, there were few jobs
00:12:15.009 --> 00:12:18.965
or they were completely insecure.
Another big problem was
00:12:19.260 --> 00:12:21.126
a housing shortage.
00:12:21.609 --> 00:12:26.866
So much so that my parents were forced
to live with a Polish family
00:12:27.211 --> 00:12:29.419
in an apartment.
Above all,
00:12:30.180 --> 00:12:38.228
the main difficulty was the work shortage.
Also because the two bags
00:12:38.428 --> 00:12:43.221
of the two thousand stars were not
to be touched at all.
00:12:43.389 --> 00:12:44.971
My father was not flexible.
00:12:45.168 --> 00:12:54.038
My mom then, as long as my father remained
in Tel Aviv until August 23, 1944,
00:12:54.416 --> 00:12:58.190
when he went to work
at the British oil refinery...
00:12:58.527 --> 00:13:00.663
(Interviewer Talking)
00:13:02.584 --> 00:13:03.995
No, he was also with my mom
because they then had my sister first,
00:13:05.484 --> 00:13:09.821
and then I was born in 1942.
So when my father left,
00:13:10.096 --> 00:13:18.196
he felt the obligation to work
to support the family.
00:13:18.380 --> 00:13:25.139
He also liked the idea
of having money to freely spend.
00:13:25.670 --> 00:13:30.672
As mentioned, your mother was free...
- Yes, free.
00:13:31.130 --> 00:13:32.106
in Palestine.
- Yes.
00:13:32.307 --> 00:13:36.364
Your father, on the other hand,
had to move abroad to Persia
00:13:36.564 --> 00:13:41.699
because, meanwhile, he found work
with an oil company.
00:13:41.966 --> 00:13:48.182
So two lovers who find themselves
far apart in a foreign land,
00:13:48.348 --> 00:13:53.850
and the only point of contact
between these two people becomes
00:13:54.083 --> 00:13:56.505
the writing, the letters
that will then become so important
00:13:56.849 --> 00:14:00.166
for documentation, for their memories.
- Yes.
00:14:00.374 --> 00:14:05.792
In fact, if my father accepts
this two year contract
00:14:06.042 --> 00:14:13.184
with this Iranian company,
from Abadan in Persia,
00:14:13.434 --> 00:14:17.372
he would do his work
as an industrial chemist
00:14:17.540 --> 00:14:24.617
in this precise military zone.
Of course, he had to detach,
00:14:24.959 --> 00:14:28.485
he had to leave his wife,
his children in Tel Aviv.
00:14:28.767 --> 00:14:36.060
Then, although very tired,
every evening my mom wrote
00:14:36.252 --> 00:14:42.569
and reported what had happened
during her workday,
00:14:42.835 --> 00:14:47.302
because she had found work
with a company that was part
00:14:47.485 --> 00:14:50.741
of the Tel Aviv pharmaceutical industry.
After then being fired,
00:14:50.995 --> 00:14:59.276
she went to work at a house to iron.
So, she could do anything.
00:14:59.471 --> 00:15:08.238
She reported with great ability,
descriptive, careful about everything
00:15:08.444 --> 00:15:13.072
that went on during the day.
Rather, my father sometimes wrote letters
00:15:13.204 --> 00:15:18.570
with extensive description.
He explained to her a bit about his duty,
00:15:18.738 --> 00:15:22.722
weather problems because it was very hot,
relationships with the British,
00:15:22.905 --> 00:15:27.964
and with the local population
that was in truly devastating conditions.
00:15:28.125 --> 00:15:31.806
They were letters that,
among other things...
00:15:31.956 --> 00:15:37.607
If you permit me a tangent.
They were things one absolutely knew
00:15:37.773 --> 00:15:41.460
but I didn't even know the letters existed.
00:15:41.713 --> 00:15:46.556
Then perhaps we can also elaborate
on how they were found.
00:15:46.707 --> 00:15:50.774
Then also about how the decision
to publish them came about.
00:15:50.940 --> 00:15:54.618
Let's go back.
We had said that while Ettore
00:15:54.784 --> 00:15:58.613
and Adelina were in Palestine,
their children were born.
00:15:58.747 --> 00:16:01.233
Yes, my sister...
- You were born
00:16:01.816 --> 00:16:02.750
and your sister Ana was born.
00:16:03.016 --> 00:16:06.775
It is fitting that the future
of these two children was often focused
00:16:06.992 --> 00:16:10.717
on in these letters that Ettore
and Adelina exchange.
00:16:10.946 --> 00:16:14.129
I would like to read another
particularly significant passage
00:16:14.342 --> 00:16:22.709
that is again written by Ettore
in Abadan in February 23, 1945:
00:16:23.141 --> 00:16:26.575
"If on one hand, the war tends
to be nearing its end, on the other,
00:16:26.775 --> 00:16:30.035
"for us, the situation in Palestine
is taking a favorable turn.
00:16:30.191 --> 00:16:34.102
"These days, I am overthinking
and continuously thinking
00:16:34.286 --> 00:16:38.454
"about the problem and worried,
not so much about our personal future,
00:16:38.587 --> 00:16:42.110
"but the future of our children.
I feel irresistibly taken towards
00:16:42.352 --> 00:16:45.594
"a solution that,
although never once explored,
00:16:46.065 --> 00:16:49.284
"today seems inevitable to me.
Perhaps in a year's time we will find
00:16:49.787 --> 00:16:55.046
"the need to have to return to Italy.
Then they will become
00:16:55.195 --> 00:16:56.788
"one hundred percent Italians."
00:16:56.970 --> 00:17:04.422
Probably if your father could have chosen,
he would have never wanted
00:17:04.573 --> 00:17:05.595
to return to Italy.
00:17:05.749 --> 00:17:08.497
Yes, I would not have wanted to also.
Quite the opposite,
00:17:09.595 --> 00:17:17.470
because of having been betrayed by Italy,
my father deeply desired to return to Italy.
00:17:18.020 --> 00:17:21.135
Apart from the experience in Abadan,
also because life
00:17:21.570 --> 00:17:27.604
in Palestine was truly very hard,
very difficult because of the work problem,
00:17:28.458 --> 00:17:37.568
and the problem of the lack of apartments.
However, we can't forget
00:17:37.888 --> 00:17:43.158
that the attention
from the Palestinian Arabs
00:17:43.209 --> 00:17:47.410
and the British made life difficult.
00:17:48.237 --> 00:17:52.466
If we could return back in time...
- Yes.
00:17:53.210 --> 00:18:02.553
In September 1940, Tel Aviv was bombed
by Italian planes, right?
00:18:02.868 --> 00:18:06.833
Yes.
- They bombed Tel Aviv and it seems
00:18:07.120 --> 00:18:10.727
like there were one hundred
and fifty two deaths.
00:18:10.928 --> 00:18:14.967
So life was very hard.
Another tangent.
00:18:15.120 --> 00:18:21.822
I mean,
one of the big problems was also food.
00:18:22.113 --> 00:18:26.804
For example, my sister and I went
to the gan, which was like kindergarten.
00:18:27.163 --> 00:18:33.481
To help you understand, at lunch they used
to give us half an egg to eat.
00:18:33.781 --> 00:18:37.936
On the other hand,
while facing this situation,
00:18:38.279 --> 00:18:45.753
the hope of returning
to Italy continuously remained.
00:18:46.089 --> 00:18:49.813
And how did Adelina live
with the hope of returning?
00:18:49.948 --> 00:18:55.348
I will read another significant passage:
"I will never ask those taking that step.
00:18:55.550 --> 00:18:59.731
"Here I feel undoubtedly hesitant
by instinct and by force of tradition.
00:18:59.882 --> 00:19:03.971
"And I won't ever ask myself,
not only out of obedience,
00:19:04.123 --> 00:19:06.591
"but because more than anything else,
I am concerned
00:19:06.833 --> 00:19:10.667
"about doing everything possible
for the future of our children."
00:19:10.867 --> 00:19:14.634
It's like saying,
she was also willing to do her part.
00:19:14.891 --> 00:19:18.484
There was a sense of pride
to return to Italy,
00:19:18.798 --> 00:19:22.226
that country that had dismissed them,
in order to guarantee
00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:24.210
a future for you children.
00:19:24.375 --> 00:19:28.434
Then here there is a...
(Laughter)
00:19:28.583 --> 00:19:31.676
There are many letters.
In any case, when my father says
00:19:31.843 --> 00:19:34.135
that they will become
one hundred percent Italians,
00:19:34.639 --> 00:19:43.868
he also proposes to my mom
the idea of converting to Catholicism,
00:19:44.084 --> 00:19:46.477
because we were Jews.
- (Interviewer) Of course.
00:19:46.627 --> 00:19:55.228
Meanwhile, the Finzi from Trieste were
almost completely assimilated.
00:19:55.477 --> 00:19:58.485
That is to say,
they went to the temple twice a year.
00:19:59.018 --> 00:20:04.180
Instead, my mom was
from a much more orthodox family,
00:20:04.394 --> 00:20:10.462
They came from the Parrdo,
a very important Iberian family.
00:20:10.823 --> 00:20:18.914
Parrdo which used to be Prado.
They came from Spain after the expulsion.
00:20:19.052 --> 00:20:25.372
So my father proposes this idea
of converting to Catholicism
00:20:25.539 --> 00:20:30.822
in order for his children...
- To become...
00:20:31.205 --> 00:20:34.826
Yes, to become entirely Italian,
even as a religion.
00:20:34.994 --> 00:20:39.432
However my mom... Here it says
that she was reluctant.
00:20:39.566 --> 00:20:46.739
Not because she was personally orthodox,
but because, in that moment when
00:20:46.955 --> 00:20:51.549
it was known what was happening
in Europe, the extermination camps
00:20:51.683 --> 00:20:55.957
or another difficult situation,
they absolutely didn't know
00:20:56.124 --> 00:21:00.757
where my paternal
and maternal grandparents were.
00:21:00.906 --> 00:21:08.867
Then, however, the news arrived
even betraying the origin and...
00:21:09.001 --> 00:21:12.440
It was quite heavy.
- Yes, very heavy.
00:21:12.846 --> 00:21:17.107
By the way, how did the news
about the war arrive meanwhile
00:21:17.240 --> 00:21:22.298
it continued in Europe?
Was there just an awareness
00:21:22.601 --> 00:21:25.558
of what was happening?
Was there an awareness
00:21:25.742 --> 00:21:29.993
of the existence
of the extermination camps?
00:21:30.126 --> 00:21:32.265
Yes.
- Above all, how did they live
00:21:32.432 --> 00:21:33.910
with these dual feelings?
Because, on the one hand,
00:21:34.126 --> 00:21:37.359
there was this hope
of being able to return one day
00:21:37.509 --> 00:21:40.210
to a normal life in Italy.
On the other hand, however,
00:21:40.393 --> 00:21:44.018
there was a lot of fear
also for the fate of loved ones.
00:21:44.364 --> 00:21:46.517
They knew everything.
00:21:47.017 --> 00:21:52.128
Both about the Jewish agency
and the British.
00:21:52.461 --> 00:22:02.960
The news arrived quite detailed.
I don't want to forget a noteworthy group
00:22:03.093 --> 00:22:09.149
of young Jews that were part
of the Jewish brigade.
00:22:09.777 --> 00:22:15.330
They fought alongside the British
and they also fought in Italy,
00:22:15.722 --> 00:22:22.200
then in all of Europe.
They were the ones who said
00:22:22.351 --> 00:22:27.914
that they gave very detailed news
of what was happening.
00:22:28.047 --> 00:22:34.055
So, they knew about everything
that was coming to Italy and Europe.
00:22:34.373 --> 00:22:43.872
The concerns were
about my paternal grandparents,
00:22:44.020 --> 00:22:48.014
those who later died in Auschwitz,
that they didn't...
00:22:48.181 --> 00:22:55.615
The last official news was transmitted
by a type of telegram of the Red Cross
00:22:55.939 --> 00:23:01.873
in July of 1943.
My father knew absolutely nothing.
00:23:02.141 --> 00:23:09.132
My mom didn't know.
She knew that her parents were hidden.
00:23:09.272 --> 00:23:14.434
Her brother was in Switzerland.
But they had absolutely no news.
00:23:14.617 --> 00:23:21.984
They couldn't say or write anything
because the mail was altered.
00:23:22.605 --> 00:23:30.955
Outgoing and incoming mail was altered.
I found that at least some details
00:23:31.134 --> 00:23:37.204
in the letters had been deleted precisely
by the person that did the alterations.
00:23:37.367 --> 00:23:40.973
So, my father needed to be careful
because they were altered by the British.
00:23:41.194 --> 00:23:45.502
They were altered by the Persians.
Then they were altered on arrival
00:23:45.719 --> 00:23:47.244
in Palestine.
So, they were...
00:23:47.469 --> 00:23:50.585
In this situation,
they also found themselves in a state
00:23:50.953 --> 00:23:56.175
of uncertainty being far from Europe,
far from what was happening in Europe,
00:23:56.316 --> 00:23:58.752
far from the war.
00:23:58.919 --> 00:24:13.446
For a moment, Adelina perhaps had hoped
that her family would have an advantage
00:24:13.613 --> 00:24:17.880
over the immense tragedy
that afflicted the Jews of Europe,
00:24:18.035 --> 00:24:21.555
that they would all find themselves
reunited upon their return.
00:24:21.737 --> 00:24:23.905
There was almost this illusion, this hope.
00:24:24.070 --> 00:24:28.838
Hope is often the last idea.
There was hope.
00:24:29.005 --> 00:24:38.306
They didn't have detailed news.
My father's brother was a doctor
00:24:38.471 --> 00:24:48.990
who lived in Bologna
in the mountains of Monghidoro.
00:24:49.147 --> 00:24:55.290
He knew
that his parents had been arrested,
00:24:55.473 --> 00:24:59.223
that they had been deported.
However, he had not communicated anything.
00:24:59.390 --> 00:25:05.907
Even though, hypothetically they went
to Auschwitz, there could have always been
00:25:06.041 --> 00:25:11.741
the hope of returning.
Therefore, they hoped.
00:25:11.891 --> 00:25:15.775
Unfortunately, however,
the terrible news was that they arrived.
00:25:15.925 --> 00:25:19.859
They arrived in Palestine while
the war by now...
00:25:20.175 --> 00:25:22.092
It was over.
- By now it was over.
00:25:22.276 --> 00:25:26.075
And like you said,
the terrible news arrived by mail.
00:25:26.425 --> 00:25:31.160
News so terrible
that Adelina cannot even transcribe them
00:25:31.532 --> 00:25:34.243
in a letter to Ettore.
She writes:
00:25:34.443 --> 00:25:38.235
"My dear, unfortunately,
the dreary news has arrived.
00:25:38.408 --> 00:25:40.450
"I am sending you the letter
because I don't have the courage
00:25:40.711 --> 00:25:42.327
"to write to you
about it with my own pen."
00:25:42.659 --> 00:25:46.786
It's terrible.
Unfortunately, they were reactions
00:25:46.944 --> 00:25:51.568
to what had just happened
in the war in Europe.
00:25:51.726 --> 00:25:55.814
In a communication letter separate
from the international cross.
00:25:55.977 --> 00:25:59.343
Maybe in that exact moment Ettore
and Adelina understood
00:25:59.503 --> 00:26:03.378
what they had escaped from?
00:26:03.552 --> 00:26:08.954
Yes without a doubt.
I will also tell you
00:26:09.097 --> 00:26:14.162
that when my father had
the idea of going to Palestine,
00:26:14.365 --> 00:26:19.670
everyone criticized him;
friends, parents, brothers, the sister,
00:26:19.916 --> 00:26:24.963
because they said
that he was always pessimistic.
00:26:25.245 --> 00:26:31.417
He would rather have wanted them all
to also come with him.
00:26:31.578 --> 00:26:43.906
However, he expected it, also because
the war in Europe ended on May 8, 1945.
00:26:44.223 --> 00:26:50.847
The news gets to him in August.
Given that months go by
00:26:51.097 --> 00:26:57.364
where he doesn't receive positive news,
he feared for the lives of his parents.
00:26:57.674 --> 00:27:00.564
Excuse me but if you permit me.
- (Interviewer) Of course.
00:27:00.731 --> 00:27:07.650
But before the communication
about the deaths of his parents,
00:27:07.800 --> 00:27:15.083
he received communication from Sweden
that said his sister was saved.
00:27:15.416 --> 00:27:23.270
Then my aunt Yolanda Clara was part
of that group of prisoners
00:27:23.433 --> 00:27:28.159
that were moved
from Auschwitz in December 1944.
00:27:28.309 --> 00:27:32.160
They were moved west
so as not to leave a mass
00:27:32.325 --> 00:27:38.943
of prisoners in Auschwitz,
because the Red Army was coming.
00:27:39.094 --> 00:27:49.228
She was then liberated
in the north of Ravensbrück in April 1945.
00:27:49.401 --> 00:27:53.152
She was then transferred
to Sweden to recover.
00:27:53.435 --> 00:27:59.169
We have said that at this point,
the war had ended and Ettore and Adelina
00:27:59.403 --> 00:28:04.586
along with their children decide
to return to Italy.
00:28:04.874 --> 00:28:08.854
How difficult was it once again to start
from scratch because they actually had
00:28:09.187 --> 00:28:10.504
to start from scratch.
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:12.419
Ah yes.
It was difficult.
00:28:12.579 --> 00:28:17.171
My father's brother,
who had worked in Sansepolcro,
00:28:17.320 --> 00:28:20.813
helped him get a job at his work.
He spoke with Mr. Marco Vittoni
00:28:21.104 --> 00:28:25.154
and he said he was quite willing
to hire his brother
00:28:25.320 --> 00:28:30.489
because he was a chemist.
Mr. Vittoni wanted a change of pace
00:28:30.622 --> 00:28:38.070
for his company.
But when we arrived in Italy in May 1946,
00:28:38.272 --> 00:28:41.614
with a short stop in Bologna
and then to Parma at the home
00:28:41.761 --> 00:28:45.331
of my maternal grandparents,
and then to Sansepolcro precisely
00:28:45.496 --> 00:28:51.122
in November of 1946,
we had absolutely nothing.
00:28:51.898 --> 00:28:54.472
And there was nothing...
(Laughter)
00:28:54.715 --> 00:28:58.672
Without a doubt, a country in devastation.
- Yes, a country in devastation.
00:28:58.806 --> 00:29:03.830
I remember the path with holes.
I remember the Tower of Berta Square
00:29:03.995 --> 00:29:06.683
in a pile of ruins.
- The Tower of Berta Square was destroyed.
00:29:06.871 --> 00:29:16.690
I repeat, it was also a problem to eat.
I remember my father rented
00:29:17.267 --> 00:29:19.492
a furnished apartment
in Saint Claire Square
00:29:19.801 --> 00:29:22.829
in which the conditions were...
- Insecure.
00:29:23.067 --> 00:29:26.059
Very, very insecure.
However, they were young
00:29:26.217 --> 00:29:31.342
and they wanted to start over.
There was my sister and myself.
00:29:31.492 --> 00:29:39.382
So, they wanted to put a painful time
of their lives behind them and start over.
00:29:39.646 --> 00:29:44.242
You have previously already answered
that there was resentment towards
00:29:44.409 --> 00:29:49.694
that country that made them escape
and also towards those friends
00:29:49.861 --> 00:29:52.450
that...
- No.
00:29:52.636 --> 00:29:58.228
had put down the idea of the...
- No, absolutely not.
00:29:58.566 --> 00:30:02.660
Other than it being something
that is part of our DNA,
00:30:02.947 --> 00:30:10.765
resentment is useless.
It's best to move forward,
00:30:10.949 --> 00:30:17.245
to have the will to start again
and to overcome difficulties.
00:30:17.420 --> 00:30:21.438
Not resentment.
I never heard my father
00:30:21.604 --> 00:30:29.395
nor my mother speak ill of Italians.
Yes, it was upsetting to have lost.
00:30:29.521 --> 00:30:36.502
To having lost parents.
To having lost years of work.
00:30:36.652 --> 00:30:40.513
My mom could not return to work
in Milan because there was no way
00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:42.906
to find a home.
00:30:43.208 --> 00:30:52.924
In 2011, Ettore Finzi's
and Adelina's epistolary was donated
00:30:53.135 --> 00:30:57.000
to the Pieve diary archives.
It's awarded the Premio Pieve.
00:30:57.148 --> 00:31:02.848
First and foremost, how were you able
to find these letters again,
00:31:03.048 --> 00:31:06.449
because they were made public
by the decision of donating them.
00:31:06.587 --> 00:31:11.526
My father died on June 18, 2002.
00:31:11.874 --> 00:31:20.992
He lived in an apartment in Parma.
In August I was ready to let go of it.
00:31:21.572 --> 00:31:31.633
By chance, I found a bag in his office,
a leather one that held documents.
00:31:32.101 --> 00:31:37.794
There were letters inside
this document holder.
00:31:38.901 --> 00:31:43.298
And there were two notebooks,
black ones with a red border
00:31:43.298 --> 00:31:46.604
that were used in the past,
and inside were his diaries.
00:31:47.097 --> 00:31:52.133
I understood right away
because I have done historical research
00:31:52.550 --> 00:31:55.916
for many years, so I understood
it was something interesting.
00:31:56.322 --> 00:31:59.600
I found it strange
that my father never told me anything,
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:05.991
because he didn't say to me
that there were letters and diaries.
00:32:06.401 --> 00:32:10.001
And so I took them all to my house,
to my office and I left them there
00:32:10.959 --> 00:32:15.650
for a year, a year and a half.
Then I slowly began to read them
00:32:16.010 --> 00:32:17.134
with a bit of fear.
00:32:17.768 --> 00:32:22.178
Because with diaries and letters...
- One will find...
00:32:22.424 --> 00:32:25.719
always find something intimate.
Then I think in my family,
00:32:25.969 --> 00:32:31.644
nothing would ever be talked about.
No one had ever commented,
00:32:31.844 --> 00:32:37.909
or made references.
Then I gradually began
00:32:38.086 --> 00:32:42.287
to transcribe these letters.
I can't tell you how I did so,
00:32:42.574 --> 00:32:45.403
because they were truly written...
- Strictly handwritten.
00:32:45.603 --> 00:32:50.720
Yes, handwritten with a fountain pen,
on tissue paper, because back then
00:32:50.913 --> 00:32:56.686
it was airmail paper.
It was a type of job
00:32:56.837 --> 00:33:02.280
that strained the eyes.
In any case, I did this transcription job
00:33:02.959 --> 00:33:08.326
of the diary, of the letters, etc.
I had the idea of publishing it.
00:33:08.864 --> 00:33:16.182
The full version of this diary,
of these letters...
00:33:16.645 --> 00:33:24.709
I had already collaborated
with the diary archives
00:33:24.990 --> 00:33:35.338
for some time for my research.
In any case, just to be certain,
00:33:35.489 --> 00:33:39.808
I went to Pieve Santo Stefano
and I had this volume in hand.
00:33:39.990 --> 00:33:46.433
It was Cristina Cangi, who you will meet.
She asked me:
00:33:46.776 --> 00:33:49.391
"What is it professor?"
- "It's this work that I did."
00:33:49.574 --> 00:33:52.767
"Why don't you submit if for the award."
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:57.367
I say I really had not thought
about wanting to publish it.
00:33:57.545 --> 00:34:05.186
I start reading some interesting things
and then I submit it.
00:34:05.545 --> 00:34:10.042
They asked me for the archive
and also for the letters,
00:34:10.226 --> 00:34:11.925
but I wasn't going to do that.
00:34:12.091 --> 00:34:17.047
I remember that it's possible
to read this publication
00:34:17.197 --> 00:34:21.411
that is titled "Transparent",
in which the documentation
00:34:21.551 --> 00:34:24.031
is presented
and published by Il Mulino.
00:34:24.226 --> 00:34:29.046
Our arrangement time has ended,
although we would like to talk for hours
00:34:29.186 --> 00:34:34.135
about this story that is a bit,
by certain passages and elements,
00:34:34.302 --> 00:34:36.610
similar to the story
of many other families,
00:34:36.845 --> 00:34:41.818
also of the province of Arezzo.
Perhaps there will be a way
00:34:41.954 --> 00:34:46.937
to talk more about it in the future.
Thank you Daniele Finzi.
00:34:47.111 --> 00:34:52.872
Thanks to all of you
who have followed our episode,
00:34:53.021 --> 00:34:55.396
a special episode
that has been made possible
00:34:55.562 --> 00:35:00.545
in collaboration
with The Archives of Pieve Santo Stefano.
00:35:00.730 --> 00:35:04.263
I naturally thank you as well.
In particular,
00:35:04.463 --> 00:35:09.735
the archives
for this episode were made available
00:35:09.885 --> 00:35:12.535
by Nadia Frulli.
Thank you to all of you
00:35:12.747 --> 00:35:15.413
for watching the program.